
'Fanny Schlatter', you just couldn't make a name like that up could you!
Her boss wasn't by any chance a Brazilian was he?
A young Swiss woman reportedly received second and third degree burns when her Samsung Galaxy S3 smartphone exploded in her trousers. According to a report in the French-language Le Matin of Lausanne, Switzerland, 18-year-old Fanny Schlatter was on her job as an apprentice painter, loading paint cans into her boss' truck, when …
You must be American, so sweet. In English, Fanny is short for a couple of names, including Myfanwy, not uncommon at one time and no snigger value in that context, also not in Swiss, as opposed to Randy, for example, that is popular in American but has considerable snigger value in UK.
Schatter is fairly standard, again snigger value only to Yanks. Really, you are culturally ignorant. Get over it and get educated. I assume you are a little older than three years old.
How cute PJI you must be one of those brits that think all Americans are dumb while assume slang in the UK means the same in the US. Every hear of fannie mae. Most American would associate the word Fanny with the people that help screw over the economy by encouraging bad loans.
It would be more likely that LarsG is from the UK and not America as Fanny just does not mean the same thing in America.
Sorry PJI, but you're displaying your own cultural ignorance there. "Fanny" in Septic English means "bum" in English - as in "fanny pack". No Merkin would therefore snigger at it in the same way as the OP (with the "Brazilian" reference). It's much more sniggerworthy in English English. Normally they say if a joke has to be explained, it's not funny, but in this case it appears to be because you've had a sense of humour bypass. Yes, it's juvenile, puerile even, but I love the way you're typo ("Schatter") makes it funnier.
And, confusingly, the Americanese "bum" means "tramp" (as in a homeless person, not a loose woman) in English. There's also this thing called a "bum rap", the meaning of which I must admit completely eludes me, although if I had to guess then I'd say it was a form of music involving drumsticks and a brave volunteer's posterior.
About the only thing Americanese has in common with English these days is its alphabet, and even then I'd imagine Mercans resent having a whole 26 letters when a few vowels would serve them just as well, or possibly a few choice hieroglyphs (gun, gangsta, sex, money, nyancat, etc.).
I never heard the gleuteous maximus being referred to as a "bum" until I started reading stuff from GB. It was always "butt" "or "ass". And, from what I've been told, "fanny" is a slang term for the vulva.
and a "bum rap" usually referred to a trumped up charge to harass someone, such as a charge a LEO would use to run a "bum" (beggar, bindlestiff etc) in, such as the charge in my lovely home that if you do not have $5 in your wallet, or a credit/debit card, you can be arrested as a vagrant
You mean Americanese, a language originally based on English, but which deviated over the centuries into something roughly comparable to a monosyllabic Neanderthal grunt.
Actually Americanese is much closer to 18th century English than the English spoken in the UK, thanks mostly to the proliferation of dictation teachers in England in the 19th century who rather radically changed the way Brits speak by pushing their version of 'correct' English (which didn't actually exist in real usage when the US first became the US).
Yo bro, don be dissin my say, cos I 86 yo mofo ass!
Hmm, is that really how 18th century Englishmen spoke?
Although, as unintelligible as that gibberish is, it pales in comparison to Mercan Marketese, which has the irritating habit of omitting both the indefinite article and plural, a linguistic device defined (by Mercans, naturally) as "zero-marking". E.g. "we give value", "we have good product" - presumably as a religious mark of reverence for all things pertaining to money.
As a side note: Isn't it amazing where discussing fannies will lead you?
This is a risk with all lithium-ion batteries; Apple uses the same chemistry as everyone else.
Assuming external chargers are available then technically this is a reason to pick the Samsung over the Apple — the S3 (and indeed the S4) both have removable batteries so you could keep the phone next to your bed in case of emergencies on one battery while your other charges in some other part of the house. Charging tends to heat batteries so therefore is an occasion when the risk of combustion very slightly increases.
Quote: Charging tends to heat batteries so therefore is an occasion when the risk of combustion very slightly increases.
Err... All well designed lithium batteries have a thermal control on the charging circuit. In fact for some applications they _HAVE_ to have one. In any case, this one exploded not while being charged so this is not likely to have anything to do with charging.
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iPhones are made using exactly the same battery tech as every other manufacturer. There have been many cases of them blowing up, such as this one from last year:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/07/03/iphone_spontaneously_combusts_on_cctv/
You idiot.
Water is actually the best thing to use to extinguish a lithium battery fire as it is one of the only suppressants that cools the battery enough to inhibit the thermal runaway. After water, in order of effectivness : Halon, CO2, them wet foam.
The biggest risk with water is that of molten lithium and/or plastic splatter but it stops the fire. The others may halt the flames temporarily but unless the thermal runaway is controlled first it will burst into flames again in short order.
If you had a burning phone in your back pocket, wouldn't you drop your pants in an instant?
Rather than hop up and down with your mouth open till your boss comes over and walks you to a bathroom in a nearby store???
Think about how long it takes to walk into a store and into the bathroom, not to mention whatever time it took for your boss to become alerted and walk over to grab you?
What would she have done if her boss didn't come? Just stand there and wait till she was ready for dinner?
"Water is actually the best thing to use to extinguish a lithium battery fire as it is one of the only suppressants that cools the battery enough to inhibit the thermal runaway. After water, in order of effectivness : Halon, CO2, them wet foam."
Thanks for the useful info. To be pedantic, you should probably have said "lithium ion" rather than "lithium" although for batteries, the latter implies the former. You really don't want to pour water on pure lithium - that will actually cause an explosion, which I'm sure you know, but your target audience might not.
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Water is bad for dousing out an oil fire (say, your fried french), because being of lower density and of liquid disposition, such materials will rise up for continued breathing when faced with such attempts.
Water is good for dousing out quite a number of stuff actually. Even the firemen still use it.
Why speculate? Why not go and read the story where it happened with an Apple device, as linked from the article.
Guess what? Not a single person criticises the device as being sub-standard or whatever. OTOH, *this* story has at least one person claiming that Apple devices would be immune.
(There were criticisms, and rightly so, at the alleged attempts to cover it up.)
My first thoughts as well - is it the original battery, and, if not, is it a genuine Samsung replacement?, followed by does she use the original charging mechanism, and has she "personalised" the case? These are relevant and important questions, even though any tech has a finite failure rate, and a completely genuine, properly cared-for battery has a chance of catastrophic failure.
A switched on phone sends out microwaves which make heat, and may even emit even more heat when the phone gets busy or crashes, a pocket keeps heat in, sounds like only a matter of time before a phone battery overheats in a phone and shorts out!
Having a very reactive metal in a battery pack in a thermoplastic case, close to your skin, sounds really stupid. Unfortunately this is common,so these gadgets should be properly designed to protect people e.g. a flame and explosion resistant battery case with a pressured gas canister surround to put out a burning battery, and a thin layer of flame proof glass-fibre sheet in the outer phone case, especially at the back of the phone, because generally the phone is put in a pocket with the screen facing outwards, and the battery is usually at the back of the phone, ouch!
I, for one, usually put the phone in the pocket with screen facing inwards. In this case, I can put other stuff in that pocket, like keys, not fearing for the screen being scratched. This article just gave another reason for it being the safe way.
I prefer to carry my phone on a belt-clip holster. If I hear it pop, I could theoretically just rip the holster off my belt and throw it away, or in the worst case simply unbuckle my belt, drop my pants and run. Ok, that last scenario might be awkward, but rather do that than have myself burnt to a crisp. And I never carry my phone on any pocket!
Also, if I ever feel my phone getting extremely hot, I'm pulling out the battery. If it's starting to do something else (like er... generating smoke) I'll just throw the phone before it blows up!
These occasional battery explosions are just HAARP test runs for the eventual population reduction.
Once they are ready, they will ignite all phones remotely by bouncing high power radio waves off the stratosphere, igniting everybody's phones all at once.
They're just waiting for still higher market penetration in 3rd world countries.
A switched on phone doesn't really send out all that much microwaves. An infrequent burst to the phone company to let them know where you are, how you are and if your kids are alright, but not much data in that. Also these microwaves would transmit perfectly well past the fabric and heat up water and fat they encounter outside the pocket. Some might even reach an antenna out there somewhere. In addition the juice actually spent on generated these microwaves ain't actually all that.
Oh wait...you want an explosion resistant casing with a pressurized gas canister that can put out a selfsustaining chemical burn...is your comment ironic?
You sound like one of those elfin safety idiots that want to make life difficult just to gain a minor gain in safety. Mobile phones are supposed to be ... well, mobile. By the time all those "improvements" you mention were incorporated, we'd be back to the brick-phones of the early 1990s.
I can't tell if you are being serious or sarcastic, but I downvoted you just in case you *are* a genuine safety elf, because if human history had been plagued with safety elves, we wouldn't have had fire or the wheel ...
Battery technology today has come a long way from what it was when I was a kid. Today's smartphones are computers in their own right, and they chew a lot of juice. We complain about having to charge our phones on a daily basis, but I'd imagine if we tried to run our phones off of the kind of AA, C or D cell batteries that ran my toys as a child, they wouldn't even last that long.
Today's flatpack lithium batteries pack a lot of oomph into a very small package. If that oomph gets out all at once, it's not at all surprising that explosions and third degree burns are the result. And the more we pack into these tiny powerhouses, the bigger the explosions are going to get.
I've seen people on these forums wishing for batteries that they only need charge once a week. Now if we assume that this is because you have to charge your phone on a daily basis, you're talking about a sevenfold increase in energy density. That means, if your battery goes pop, seven times the explosion. Which, if this example is anything to go by, results in walking around with a battery capable of lasting a week being the functional equivalent of having a stick of dynamite in your pocket.
Inevitably energy density will increase to and beyond this point, but it is something to keep in mind. I personally would rather have to remember to charge my phone each day, than not have to worry about it for a week in exchange for the very real risk of having my entire leg blown off. Or the risk of having essentially the same effect on those around me as a suicide bomber!
"...on par with a hand grenade as it is"
Exactly my thought when going through Heathrow security recently with a colleague who was carrying a USB powerpack (i.e. big battery with USB connectors) in his kit. I was sure he'd get stopped, and he was - although not 'cos of the pack, as it turns out.
Checking the present regs, you can actually carry on batteries up to 100Wh. My colleague's pack was about 40Wh, and comfortably hand sized. Strikes me you can take quite a lot of energy in a small space; I'd be more bothered about these letting loose in the overhead lockers. Don't know if there's any sort of knock-on possible, but I think I'll be keeping my devices as separate as possible in-flight.
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But in order to liberate that energy from a chocolate bar, you need to oxidise (i.e. burn) it in one way or another, and you need atmospheric oxygen, so you ought to take the mass of that into account as well.
Chocolate can be made to burn if you try hard enough, but I'd love to see you 'recharge' your burnt chocolate bar.
But the nature of a battery means that you cannot take the cheap route of just setting light to it. I suspect that the calorific value of oxidising the components of a battery may be even higher than the rated re-usable capacity of a battery.
In short, you're not comparing like figures.
I can't remember the last time a dairymilk exploded in my pocketMaybe not in the pocket. But if you were to grind one to a fine powder (easier if chilled) and disperse it in air, it would go up very nicely.
Icon shows what sometimes happens to custard factories .....
You are right that this is something to keep in mind, and I gather that some promising new high density battery technology might get very limited use due to this. However, it is quite possible that they manage to find chemical reactions that can't go fast enough for this to happen. The other way is that you only carry with you the fuel and you take oxygen from the air. This will remove the chance that it will do a "thermal runaway" as they call it with lithium batteries.
"We complain about having to charge our phones on a daily basis, but I'd imagine if we tried to run our phones off of the kind of AA, C or D cell batteries that ran my toys as a child, they wouldn't even last that long."
Well, a modern D cell alkaline has a capacity around 16,000mAh, so around 7 times the capacity of a typical lithium polymer cell. Obviously the form factor isn't going to work very well for a nice thin smartphone, and the actual energy density isn't much different.
I do iPhone repair work here; had a client supply me with their own replacement back for an iP4S rather than letting me supply. When I fit it, and then removed it a little while later (testing) I could smell that tell-tale sweet smell that means "electrolyte is leaking", didn't think too much of it because a lot of new lithium batteries have it slightly. When I placed the rear panel back on again the phone shut down... and THEN I smelt the all too familar frying electronics magic-smoke-escaped scent, the battery was p*ssed and the phone was about to go up in smoke!
In the end, the phone was saved; the fault was that the customer-supplied rear panel was an ultra cheapy and the die-punch did not cleanly cut out one of the holes in the embedded metal shield, leaving a raised burr. That burn cut in to the battery, released the electrolyte and started a nice bit of trouble. Close call really, another minute and it'd likely have been a pile of ash on the pile of ash that would be my workshop.
There is not a shadow of a doubt that li-po batteries in their current form are becoming problematic, most cells are just contained in an insulated aluminiun bag so if something goes wrong there is no containment, so we end up relying on the product enclosure to contain the failing cells. Most people treat car batteries with a bit of respect because they understand some of the risks but abuse mobile devices.
As most products that contain these batteries are made of plastic, the device just becomes a very hot molten mess that sticks to people's skin and makes a very nasty injury.
It is accidents like the one in this article that make me only buy genuine batteries/chargers for phones and other devices just on the basis of better battery costruction that is less likely to fail.
I would also point out that in Europe there aren't any specific safety standards for lithium ion batteries, there are in the US because of the problems these things cause, maybe the EU will wake up to the danger these things presnt and do something about it.
Considering the ubiquitous nature of lithium batteries and how terribly they are abused they are really safe. When you consider there are hundreds of millions of them out there and how little they experience catastrophic failure I think this is a case that doesn't need more government imposed 'safety' regulation.
She's a painter's assistant and painters generally clean their brushes with white spirit.
As we all know, white spirit is highly combustible/easily "goes off".
Jeans on the other hand are generally flaccid.
SCENARIO
Sat down to rub her brushes clean (oh yes) spilling "white spirit" all over her f***y - not thinking that the heat emitted from her 'phone' would have an effect on the 'white spirit'.
THEN
Text receipt=Vibration in her f***y
BINGO!!!! HELLO!! An explosion from her FFFF***YYY!
fnaar fnaar ;-)
Re: What's the proper way to put out a lithium fire?
Lithium reacts Gently in water, fizzing. It's Sodium that has an energetic reaction to Water. Lithium reactions in Water create Hydroxide and Hydrogen.
Depends on the amount of Lithium. The actual amount in a Laptop or Mobile phone battery, means that using water to fight one of these isn't that bad an idea - the amount of hydrogen released isn't probably enough to cause a major danger.
Ideally, Dry Powder should be used, and then CO2, water/foam.
I would be extremely wary of firing a CO2 extinguisher at a human being in the (admittedly unlikely, but possibly in a closed space) event I starve them of oxygen.
Also, this was a panic situation - I too, thought "water on a lithium fire, not a good idea" but honestly, your options in the situation described are limited.
Wanting to find out more about this human interest story, I naturally had a quick look for Fanny on Google Images. Naturally, I found what I was looking for. When uncovered, it looks really sore. Its certainly a gaping, discoloured mess, and seems to be eminating some unpleasant discharge. I'm willing to bet it doesn't smell any too fresh either. The burn looks quite painful as well.
My own S3 got hot after it dropped off my car phone holder.
I knew about Lithium batteries and their dangers of being dropped or damaged.
So I put the battery in a ceramic pot in the garden. By morning it had bulged dramatically.
After I was satisfied it wasn't going to blow up, I disposed of it correctly.
Don't drop your phone as the crystals inside the battery can cause a short circuit. Common sense. :)
Radio Control modelers have been using high energy Lithium Polymer batteries for years for electric powered models because of the good energy/weight ratio, and they use fast charging practices. Battery fires are fairly common. The standard practice is to keep a pail of sand handy and pitch any flaming battery into the sand. Of course, that hobby is mostly done outdoors, so there isn't a worry about smoking up one's home.
I had an S2 battery which "just died" a while back, symptoms were sudden loss of capacity then it just stopped charging.
Took it out of storage and it was measuring zero volts, possibly internally shorted.
Come to think of it, the "sweet electrolyte smell" might have been present when it initially failed, had that happen before with damaged model packs after an oops event similar to that described with the Iphone battery.
A good way to tell that a battery is near failure is to see if it holds its specified charge.
If it doesen't (compared to known good original replacement) then assume it is damaged and run it down safely and ideally dispose of responsibly.
If anyone is interested, I have an idea for a Kickstarter.
Use e-nose technology to detect failing Li-Po/Li-ion cells in people's houses, cars etc before they catch on fire by detecting the unique scent of the electrolyte.
Electrolyte leakage is proportional to cell damage, if the cell is starting to puff then the seals typically become porous and it escapes.
Might work, something like a smoke alarm with more sensors (ionisation, e-nose with enhanced combustion sensors, etc) and fits into an existing light socket.
Can be calibrated for the house it is in so false alarms simply don't happen.
AC/DC No DisaSseMblE