Das ist alles.
Proof of the pervasive nature of the English language comes with the news that "shitstorm" has been named Germany's "Anglicism of the Year". Our German cousins have embraced Shitstorm (capital "S", naturally, as is the local custom for nouns) as a way of describing "a public outcry, primarily on the internet". The term rose …
The French have pretty much accepted le weekend, which is far better than la fin de la semaine. Not sure how those ended up being opposite genders though...
However if you go to Calais, they also have the frankly horrible le ferry-boat. Which would be fair enough on a children's program, but really sounds crap said in a sing-song french voice.
But there's nout like french for making ordinary things sound all posh like. A baker called Pain Quotidien just sounds so philosophical and everything. You just need the packet of Gallouises and to stare out of the window panes of a woman's bedroom into the pouring rain, to appreciate it...
I don't know why everyone gets so stressed about it. The dominant global language is absolutely full of foreign words, and it doesn't worry us. As a French friend used to tell me, english is just a local french patois... We speak a mongrel tongue of pidgin-french, cod-latin and dodgy german. Surely the way to protect your language is to get the english-speakers to adopt your word for something before it gets big - a sort of pre-emptive strike.
Am I really the first with the James Nicoll quote?
The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.
Didn't English evolve from a Germanic language anyway? So this is just it coming full circle :-)
I worked for a while with someone who spoke fluent Urdu and it they would be talking to a friend on the phone and every so often an 'English' word or phrase would be used like VISA card or taxi or 'dirty weekend' which had me cracking up. Languages are evolving, especially in a multicultural environment. Hawaiian has many borrowed words (a practice some people dislike, Japan was recently in the news re this) where they are roughly phonetically translated. As with anything there are people who frown on the practice, most kupuna dole out a slap to the head for using borrowed words, but in an illiterative language they are often quicker to use.
Didn't English evolve from a Germanic language anyway? So this is just it coming full circle :-)
In general, no. English is actually a relatively recent new language (compared to Greek, German or French).
It was formed by the amalgamation of the Germanic language spoken by the English Saxons, with the Norman-French spoken by the 1066 invaders. As the communities merged, a creole (technical linguistic term) developed. To see what was happening, get a copy of Chaucer's "Canterbury Tales" that has the original on one side of the fold and a modern English translation on the other. Chaucer was near the start of the process. The Saxon proto-English used by the peasants, and the French proto-English used by the nobles, are still quite different, but coming together (his pilgrims understood each other without translators). It's a good read, by the way. Then watch a play by Shakespeare (who perfected the unified English Language, or maybe even invented it). You shouldn't need any translation.
The process slowed down after Shakespeare, but hasn't stopped. In particular, the grammars of Norman French and Saxon were incompatible, and English has been and is progressively jettisoning its grammar. It is quite possible English will evolve into a pure placement-positional language over the next few centuries (more like Chinese in structure, than anything else of Indo-European origins). The collision between two languages may also be the reason why English has voraciously assimilated words it needed to plug gaps real or imagined in its own vocabulary, from any source, or by neologistic invention. (Is neologistic a word? Do I care? )
Back to "shitstorm", it's no surprise at all that both parts of the word are of Germanic origin. English has preserved a distinction between "polite" words of French (noble) origins, and "rude" ones of Saxon (peasant) origins, which are synonyms or almost so. (e.g. "tempest" vs "storm", "execrement" vs "shit"). Many languages (including, I'm told, Gaelic and Arabic) don't have any rude words, and one has to employ florid combinations if one wishes to offend. "May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your armpits" and suchlike.
> they would be talking to a friend on the phone and every so often an 'English' word or phrase would be used like VISA card or taxi or 'dirty weekend' which had me cracking up.
I remember sitting with some German customers, and at coffee-break they were chatting in German. Someone was demoing his new shiny toy, and in the middle of a long string of German I heard "Es ist way cool!". Cracked me up.
I've had meetings with Korean hardware / firmware developers were I've asked a highly technical question, that gets translated into Korean and asked of the developers, and their spoken reply is so full of English technical phrases that I then don't need to hear their answer translated.
Though more often than not it amounted to 'no', just with a lot of excuses.
the word "ferry" in french is only used for a subcase of passenger boats : short-ranged / short duration (few hours) passenger and car services (the horrible term "car-ferry" is often used in later case).
The larger cruise ships and long distance passenger services are classified as "paquebots".
A Spaniard here.
If the French and the Spanish 'talk about Sorting Machines', then you're talking about 'persons trained to do calculations by hand, sometimes collaboratively'. My Webster says that the word 'computer' originated in 1646.
You know, sometimes words change their meanings over time. Another example of this would be the word 'application'.
That would have been "Scheißsturm" in the traditional spelling, or "Scheissturm" modernised.
Don't use Google translate when trying to sound clever.
Anyway, the only people who are remotely concerned about 'anglicisms*' are usually short-haired right-arm raisers who tap away in their mum's cellar on a "Klapprechner".
*wants to mean: "in the language of the Angles"; those being a people from the northern Baltic coast of Germany and Denmark. Excel would generate a circle reference error message.
I too was wondering how a combination of two English words both obviously of common origin to the German, could be called an Anglicism? I'd have expected it to be almost immediately back-translated into German. Or would a native German speaker find that "Shitstorm" trips off the tongue more easily than "Scheissturm"?
Scheißsturm. Even in the "reformed spelling" it's still spelled with the sharp s, also known as "that funny beta letter" in these parts.
Interesting question also whether you'd get a triple consonant in the compound (Scheisssturm) if you translate the ß into ss, as the Swiss do, for example, or where you write capitalised.
Schönes Wochenende, zusammen.
Bloody hell, Koch by name, Koch by nature!
I didn't actually use Google Translate Andreas, I learnt German up until Year 11 in school, so am somewhat fluent, though due to the fact your language is essentially unimportant in the modern world, you can't exactly blame me for not being perfect! God forbid anyone ever spell a word wrong, Andreas will be up your arse straight away!
p.s. - In your first sentence, the comma after 'spelling' is extraneous as it doesn't connect two independent clauses. You also missed a comma after 'short-haired' in your third paragraph.
Where you're right you're right. I stand corrected on the comma issues and do apologise for the misplacements. Have a thumbs-up and a nice weekend! ;-)
Oh, by the way: Koch does not rhyme with cock, as you'll remember from your school days.
Wtf ever made you take German in school? Spanish or even French I could understand, but German?
This post has been deleted by its author
A lot of American TV uses English swears to get round their own network's guidelines. So you'll often hear "wanker" in a show where they aren't even allowed to say "damn".
I find this amusing, because surely the people who complain about swearing have access to dictionaries or the internet, and are able to work this stuff out. Even if they're not the brightest brasseca in the patch...
Proof of the pervasive nature of the English language comes with the news that "shitstorm" has been named Germany's "Anglicism of the Year".
Or is proof simply that they have a "contest" (for want of a better way of putting it) on the subject?
That said they still have a long way to go to catch up with the French on the subject (especially their dislike of it).
And also there's a certain irony that whilst they are complaining about the Anglicism (Anglicanisation?) of their languages, our own is being overcome by Americanisms, text-speak (or whatever the trendy name for it is) and other lingo jingo.
Maybe they should just cut out the middle-man and call it Americanism of the German language?
When Toubon introduced his law banning foreign words if a French alternative existed I was teaching in a school out in the north Paris suburbs.
In an instant all foreign words, particularly English words, became 'cool' - if it was the sort of thing that a dull, snobby, bureaucrat didn't want then it was absolutely what a bunch of rebellious teenagers (the only proper teenagers) were going to adopt. (Mind you 'verlan' was all the rage too so most of these words got reversed in short order).
There's no point getting upset if another language was a word yours doesn't or has a better one than yours does - just steal it, use it and make it yours.
'Telefon' ain't English, neither is 'telephone'. It's a made-up word consisting of 2 Greek bits.
And there's many examples of words which aren't 'anglicised' in German. Television, for instance. They don't say 'Televizion' or anything like that. They say 'Fernseh'. And we here have a weird game called 'Tennis' which originally came from the French word 'catch'. So it's all give-and-take. But of course, the Anglo-Saxon-dominated film industry and Internet Hollywood makes its mark, and it is very cool to inject English words in conversation. The most popular ones seem to be 'shit' and 'fuck', though.
"We believe that linguists should make more effort to develop German alternatives to new English words, particularly in the scientific and technological arena."
No! Particularly NOT in those areas. There is a reason that science uses Latin and Greek words, and names units after the names of people. It is so that they are the same in all languages, and do not need to be translated. So that science is universally available to everyone regardless of their native language.
-- There is a reason that science uses Latin and Greek words, and names units after the names of people. It is so that they are the same in all languages, and
do not need have to be translated. --
Jetzt lehrt es richtig.
(Entschuldigung. Ohne Übung sprecht man schwer; wer rastet, rostet.)
at the risk of being boring, the reason the French (and Italians) had to nick the word "weekend" is because they had no concept of Friday night/Saturday/Sunday being in anyway different to any other combination of an evening followed by two days. "Fin de semaine" translates perfectly as "end of the week". However it means the same in French as English ... "end of the week". Where a "weekend" is a different (cultural) concept.
you'd hope it would be good enough for the british press. Sadly, they all seem to have reported it as variants of "s___storm" or "sh*tstorm" - as if their readers are too stupid to discover what was "beeped" out.
I now wait for its first occurence on Countdown. No doubt it'll cause a shitstorm when it appears on TV screens.
Where do German verbs go? It depends whether you're trying to be formal / pompous / incomprehensible or not! Informally, after the subject and before he object, like English. Formally (and almost always so in writing) at the end of the sentence. You can skip ahead with your eyes, but not with your ears.
Modal verb pushes the other verb to the end so the order was right. (Can, must, should, would, want etc).
Although in this case I think "Man muss" would have been better for the generality and there's probably a better translation.
Other fun word order things I still remember from German lessons: Time-Manner-Place; special case auxiliary pushers like if (wenn) and although (obwohl).
(I got the grammar OK, it was the vocabulary that got me: didn't put in enough effort and barely scraped a GCSE A. German's not a good guess-the-word language: zum Beispiel, zum Beispiel.)
In which English speaking nation is this used? Is it just because it has the word 'in' at the end?
Probably none; and neither is "handy" for mobile or cellphone. It just sounds cool to the kiddies.
Also, what is wrong with 'Scheißesturm' instead of 'shitstorm'? It is surely more satisfying to say for a German?
The grammar is wrong. It should be "Scheißsturm", and that would make you eat the inside of your cheek.
That's a lower-case L, not a capital I. (Why on Earth would you think a verb's penultimate letter was capitalised? Who does that?) Anyway, it comes from the English word "circle", which you may have run into once or twice. They don't have to use it the same way as us for it to be an Anglicism; they just have to get it from our language.
We bend the English words to our will ;) Many verbs end with 'n'. Forgot all my grammar lessons, can't explain any better, why this is. Anyway, we tend to "germanize" verbs taken from English. We also say "downloaden" and "updaten". Makes me cringe sometimes. But "circeln" is really cringeworthy. It means to include into your circle of friends/contacts (on social media). And it gets even worse. "circeln" is the form "to circle". When I want to say "I have added X to my circle" (would you say "I have circled X" in English?), it would be "Ich habe X gecircelt" . I've never seen it before and it looks to me like something only marketing/yuppie/hipster types would say. But then I'm not into social media at all ... But e. g. "Ich habe X gedownloaded" (= "I've downloaded X") is pretty common.
When I was learning german, I enjoyed the fact that the official pronunciation of french-inspired words employs a sort of germanic version of a french accent, e.g.
information = Inform atz i OHN,
...and the english-inspired words employ a sort of 1930s BBC accent, e.g.
Campingplatz = Kempeeng Platz. (Handy = 'Hendy' etc.)
I was wondering if we should start doing this more in English too, but then perhaps putting on an indian subcontinent accent for Pyjamas and Bungalow would attract complaints of racism...
My OH never quite gets how odd it is to listen to a stream of German with the odd English word in the middle of the sentence. So for this, I got her to come up with a few innocuous german sentences (covering everything from broccoli harvesting to the US snooping scandal) to contain "shitstorm", then recorded her saying them. It took a few goes as her german accent's a bit anglicised, but we got there in the end. Magic! It works even better as her accent is in any case the 'softer' northern sound, and adding a nice crisp delivery to "shitstorm" gives it a bit more force.
If Scheiss- as a prefix is ambiguous, because it's a 'positive' or 'forceful' modifier in German, doesn't the language have a way of indicating that the actual substance is instead referenced? I don't speak German, but my first guess would be Scheißensturm as the proper loan translation.
Shitstorm is not translated into "Scheißsturm" or anything else, otherwise it wouldn't be an anglicism.
And yes, it's generally used over here to define an outcry on online forums or social media. Angie caused one when she said the internet was "new territory for us all" during a press conference when President Obama was in Berlin.
Applying the prefix "Scheiß-" to anything is similar to using "f**king" as a forceful modifier in English. Example: the recently released recordings of Anglo Irish Bank in the Irish Independent has some quotes from David Drumm about "the f**king Germans", and in German media it was translated as "Scheißdeutschen".