Nokia, Microsoft put on brave face as Lumia 925s parachute into Blighty Nokia's latest premium smartphone, the Lumia 925, is now shipping in the UK. And staff at the mobe-maker told reporters they will be working more closely with Microsoft, which is responsible for the handset's Windows Phone 8 OS, with most of the cooperation focusing on joint-marketing campaigns. The new Lumia 925 puts the …
Nokia is likely to announce a profit warning to investors within the next few weeks, the Royal Bank of Canada has suggested, after worse than expected sales in Q2 2013. Lumia shipments haven’t met with Nokia’s predictions, the RBC claimed in a note to investors today, Finnish paper Taloussanomat reports, with operating margin for the smart devices division tipped to be around -3%.
Nokia had forecast a strong growth in Windows Phone sales back when it announced its Q1 2013 figures, suggesting that sequential growth in unit volumes would be “higher than the 27% sequential growth in the first quarter.” However, it still expected its Devices & Services operating margin to be around -2% (+/- 4-points).
According to the bank’s numbers, Nokia is estimated to sell 30m smartphones – down 2m from the previous estimates – while regular phone sales will drop from 218m to 193m, it’s suggested. The claimed reason for the shortfall is one we’ve heard many times before: cheap Android phones eating into the entry-level segment.
It’s not been a good few months for Nokia. Earlier this week, it was suggested that even in the company’s own home territory, Finland, Samsung was now outselling Nokia phones.
*boggle* It's only a smartphone if it runs Windows?
Yes, those figures may include low end devices like Asha, but these are full touch phones with Internet, apps etc - how are they not smart? They may be low end and low spec, but you could make the same argument about low end Android phones.
Apple got away with calling a phone a smartphone even when it *couldn't* run apps. If anything Nokia have been famously conservative about what they count, as most of their Internet/app phones are still not counted, when really all "feature" phones should have been counted as smartphones (there's no qualitative difference, it's just a marketing label). I don't understand why people are so keen to manipulate the stats to make Apple look better (counting 100% of their sales) and Nokia look worse.
The real point is that sales and profits are different things. 30 million is good going for sales, and Apple have mostly had poorer sales. Yet Apple will overcharge and more easily make more money, whilst Nokia devices are more likely to be lower cost lower profit ones. Personally as a user, not a shareholder, I care more about popularity than who makes the most money off of me.
I picked up a Lumia 521 at Walmart the other week for $129.
It's branded T-Mobile, but I haven't bothered putting a SIM in it yet, I'm just using it on WiFi to play around with WP8. I'll probably try it with the $30/month unlimited Data plan at some point over the summer, so that I can test the Nokia Drive stuff (which can only be activated in a phone with a SIM).
It's not a bad little device for the price.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Nokia-Lumia-521-4G-Smartphone/24099994
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Tmobile-30-Wireless-Airtime-Card/15443357
Yep - WP sales are not bad - 8.4% UK market share as of the latest figures (April). It overtook Blackberry long ago.
As to "Puzzlingly, Nokia will continue to sell the much heavier sibling, the 920 - but why would anyone want one" - the answer is because it has the best camera in any Smartphone other than the newer 92x handsets...
You may need to check these comments again. I would put money on the 808 camera being the best available in a phone still today. This may change in the next few months though with the new GS4 and potentially the Nokia EOS coming to market.
The 920 camera is really good but I don't think its on the same level as the 808.
The best if you leave out the HTC One, the Galaxy S4, etc. Check the comparison between the S4, the One, the iPhone 5 and the 920 - http://connect.dpreview.com/post/9219904986/shootout-samsunggalaxys4-vs-htcone-vs-iphone5-vs-lumia920.
The only thing the 920 is slightly better at is flash photography, for all the rest the S4 is the all around best smartphone camera. Sorry to burst your bubble...
Of course, they left out the 808 and the N8, it would be interesting to see how these fare. I really like the 808 approach, and would by a Jolla or Android phone with that kind of camera.
NO !!!!!
"8.4% UK market share" - It had 8.4% of SALES from March to April 2013, this is NOT the same as having 8.4% of the overall UK Smartphone market which your post suggests.
The latest figures from Gartner put WP Global Smartphone Market Share at 2.9%, the UK I would expect would be somewhere in or around that figure.
"It had 8.4% of SALES from March to April 2013, this is NOT the same as having 8.4% of the overall UK Smartphone market which your post suggests."
Actually it is the same thing as he suggests. Market share is the share of the products sold in the market in a period, so rather than refute the assertion, you've just restated it. A "market" of anything implies sales, so devices that were sold last year are not part of this year's market.
The measure I think you mean is installed base, how many of the products are still in use. Over time, high market share contributes to high installed base, but it's not a straightforward integral of sales: products with a short useful life will drop out of installed base more quickly than those which provide longer service.
Despite its death-notice in 2011, it is still Symbian that's the third-most-used OS, and iOS only overtook it in late 2012. Android has been #1 since about 2011. A lot of those Symbian devices are very old, however, so don't contribute to the "app economy" which is the main reason why a rational person would even care about whose phone OS is most popular. By that measure, iOS had an early lead, Android has caught up, but not pulled away. Or in other words, one can prove any pet theory with statistics just by framing the query.
Anyway, these WP8 devices are at the higher end of the market, which implies a longer working life, so if MS/Nokia can keep this share up, they will have a viable userbase before too long. I think that's good. A monopoly or even a duopoly is bad for customers in the long run: it just breeds complacency.
I agree with your post, but:
"A lot of those Symbian devices are very old, however, so don't contribute to the "app economy" which is the main reason why a rational person would even care about whose phone OS is most popular."
Actually, even if we limit installed userbase to just phones in the last few years, one can get an estimate that still puts Symbian in 3rd place, only recently overtaken by iphone, and that's still a time period well in the timeframe when phones were shipped with Nokia Store, and support Qt etc, so well supported by Symbian application developers.
(From my own personal experience, the large installed userbase of Symbian, even with older phones like the 5XXX series, is partly why I see 50-100 times as many downloads on Symbian to Android.)
The media has long used "market share" to mean sales rather than installed userbase. If we look at the latter, sure WP does worse, but then so would have iphone for years, and the global installed userbase of Symbian would still be massive, possibly still on par with the iphone platform.
Also I think the UK's WP market share (by sales) is higher than the global average, so presumably the installed userbase is likely to be too.
No wonder the burning platform asshole wants to kill it off completely.
No, they're not, unless there's been some bizarre reversal in Q2 Symbian sales. So it does seem the right time to discontinue the sales altogether (whether it was right to end Symbian at all being a separate debate).
It is amazing that Symbian sales went on so well for so long, even after marketing, distribution, etc was almost all cut. Never mind mocking WP, I find it funny that it still took the iphone platform another six months to overtake it.
The issue with Windows phones is, and I know a lot of people on here don’t want to hear this, the rest of the phone, the majority of people who buy phones don’t give a flying fox what OS it’s got same as what processer is in it.
Can it ring people? Can it text? Use the Internet? Play Music? Does it have a (some people care - decent quality) Camera? Is it simple to use, does it look nice?
Most people buy phones the same way most people buy cars, in other words, can I afford it, does it work, what colour is it, and sometimes what badge has it got on the front, everything else is just stuff that makes it different from others.
In other words, to the majority of people -
This Car is a Ford, this is a Vauxhall
This Phone is a Samsung, this is a HTC
Is more important then
This car runs on diesel this one on petrol
This Phone is a Windows Phone, this is an Android.
Its down to the phone, and while iPhones are iPhones and Samsungs are Samsungs Nokia's last couple of phones have just been 'other phones'
yep a silly move - the wireless charging is cool and it doesn't add too much bulk... there are Chinese add-on qi charger coils for the Galaxies which fit under the standard battery cover...
32GB as an exclusive? its not as if mediocre flash is expensive! im not sure how winpho8 deals with memory, but my 32GB 920 certainly doesn't have as much storage as my old 32GB iphone4... 16GB wouldn't last long at all - even with the tiny amount of apps for winpho8!
"except for the OS."
How you insult me Microsoft and Nokia. You are like two old impotent farts sitting by the river trying to catch a fish without a bait. Damn you both. When Google plays Android not Linux, you think your slack and dead MS thingy name is worth something. Damn you both, for stupidity.
The shame is that Nokia did make some damned good mobile phones. In fact they were so good I am still waiting for someone to come up with something to replace the one I am using. Nothing comes close to its usefulness. It's small, fits in an inside pocket has bluetooth and does what I need, which is more than the current dummy phone bricks can achieve. They are all show (why?) and no useful go, (why again?).
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No, no and again no..
Sqee is for when your name is Rose and you get pashed on by Brad Pitt and Eric Bana in the space of 10 minutes...
In conclusion, they were cousins...
It is not, repeat not, to be used; in any description of a smartphone especially one of Elops finest..
I now have a message from group....
While I do not know for sure if these are the same ones you mention I took a second to look at what was available....
Podcatcher: http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/store/app/podcatcher/5d5cebe9-420a-4566-a468-04c94aa34d93 (not sure if same but same name)
Fritz!Fon http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/store/app/fritzbox-calls/f8352e82-85b0-48c8-8103-7a745573c70b
(Fritz!Fon how popular is this really?? Real Question)
Öffi? Is this information for public transport? if so Nokia provides: http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/store/app/here-transit/adfdad16-b54a-4ec3-b11e-66bd691be4e6 and there are others too.
The economist does not seem to be an available app however windows phone does have Zinio which I believe includes the economist and a ton of other publications: http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/store/app/zinio/236cc9f0-a250-4f1a-8f3a-b532d7a60b23
Do you have more apps that you are missing???
I'll fess up to not having a recent Windows phone, but have had a little play around with a couple, and do believe the consensus which seems to say the latest versions work pretty / very well on most of the new Nokias, which are nice hardware designs with decent specs.
But my gut feeling is, that going on Windows track record on security and transparency, if you run a Windows operation, adding Windows mobiles into the mix is too much like putting all your eggs in one rather holey basket.. Having said, that I really don't believe Android is any more secure in practice in day to day use, and in fact is seriously underated as a security risk for consumers and in the loosely managed business IT environments encountered in most SME's.
What I like most about the touted benefits of BB10 is the feature that supposedly allows effective separation of business and personal data on a single device, plus the secure)ish) messaging .
Plus, with the Q10, the fact you get a physical keyboard option - my fat fingers really struggle with vitual keyboards.
I know it's a stale arguement, but with Maemo, Nokia really looked like they were finally making headway delivering a good smartphone OS, so it was a shame they junked it, especially when the only alternative was to assume the only game in town is now Win mobile OS.
I don't see Sony, Samsung HTC playing that one out in the same way - they're happy to play the field taking each OS on it's merits to their business model.
As a phone manufacturer, the key issue I can see is that MS like to grab a big chunk of your profit up front in the form of the OS license fee, and then a whole lot more for the life of the phone by snaffling a wodge of any app sale revenues.
For Apple and Blackberry, this approach makes sense, as even though they outsource production, they take on much of the commercial risk with the design and manufacture of the hardware, the quid-pro-quo being they pay the price when the phone doesn't sell.
For Nokia, by using the MS mobile OS, they have all the risks of a branded mobile manufacturer, with none of the upside from continuing sales of apps. What gives?
The Three version of this has the wireless charging stand & case bundled for "free" (a relative term when you're paying them £30 a month). £500/24 = roughly £20 for the hire purchase, so on the Three package or the cheapest Vodafone one, you're effectively paying £10/month for the calls, which compares favourably to pay as you go. If you want or need a £500 handset, that is.
It's the first time I'be ever bought a phone on launch day. Oh, I've had plenty on launch days and before but they were freebies.
This is the first time with my own, paid for contract. OK it was an upgrade, albeit with a 12 month contract.
It's currently sync'ing.
Ahh...
but what is it sync'ing about?
I've had mine, in my sweaty hands for 24 hours. I've come from iOS (and have a seed of iOS7)
I have a 32GB Black, bought from Vodafone, as O2 are arsewipes.
First thing, the box: small, well packaged, recycled. You open it and even the SIM ejector is pristine. One hits the power button by accident, and the touch screen works through the cellophane.
So, SIM card in, the tray is very neat. The phone is solid, thin and feels great, it fits my unusually large hands. My thumb rests against the power button, this is useful. So, on and in, a few swipes and I'm navigating about, adding the apps I have on iOS.
OS wise, I like how the apps work and the back button. Took me a while to work out the Smartcam, but 24 hours down and I'm happy.
Now, the important mark, I handed it to my wife on the way home. She's a technophobe, and has been an Apple user since it was uncool: "Oh, this is easy to use"
What Nokia have done here is done something really well. It feels right, but you don't notice it really.
"The result weighs almost exactly as much as a Samsung Galaxy S4, but it feels more expensive"
"but the 925 has shed the 920's built-in wireless charging (this now requires a clip-on back plate)"
Considering what Samsung packs on the S4, and what Nokia did to lower the weight (the S4 its slight bigger but still less heavier) promoting the 925 for its weight it will be difficult. And for me, sheding the built-in wireless charging its cheating. And if you compare the 925 with the new Samsung S4 Zoom, you end wonder how Samsung can pack so much stuff with such low weight.
Yeah, desperate people need camera-phones NOW!...but I was talking about weight if you care to read again. But you know, I would rather run to buy a Nokia 808 than any Lumia, because looks like it did take a FULL YEAR to have a *RUMOURED* Nokia EOS to show up...
P.S. The S4 Zoom it's a reallity, announced already, did you get the memo?
I did read again and I originally did agree with your post just not the part I mentioned. I think they should keep the wireless charging as it is super useful and personally I do not find the weight of the 920 to be an issue but I guess not everyone has that same feel, Nokia seems all over the board with some of their phones not sure why tbh.
P.s. Announced is different than available though no?
On the Lumia vs 808 not sure why you would do that, I expect the EOS to be every bit as good as the 808 each to their own though.
One of Nokia's great strengths back in the day was the sheer variety of phones, which meant there was a Nokia for you no matter what sort of phone you wanted. More difficult to do that now everything's a touchscreen slab, but they still seem to have that ethos: the 925 is basically the 920 with the wireless charging removed to make it lighter; so now there's a version for people who want wireless charging and a version for people who want lightness. I prefer this to Apple's approach, I have to say.
Now if it was around £200-250 (aka Nexus 4) , wouldnt mind considering.
This "Free" If you pay upwards of £35 per month is frankly getting insulting to our collective intelligence.
The subsidies have long gone, and operators are recovering with interest (more than Credit card APRs).
When will this madness end? And when will Nokia learn? Someone tell them, they are not Apple or Samsung to command silly premiums! Got it?
I paid $100 US for my phone and the same for the wife's at the time and then get charged roughly $150 US per month here in the States for my own and my wifes phone with 1Gb of Shared Data, unlimited texts and calls. Free and 35 squid a month actually sounds appealing based on the standards where I am!!
The reason why Elop and co chose Windows Phone over Android was because they were concerned that they would be lost amongst all of the other Android handsets. A bit like HTC, Sony, Huawei et al are now as they watch the Samsung juggernaut plough ahead.
Their bottom line doesn't exactly support their decision, but at least they are the most visible of the few WP manufacturers out there.
I can understand why someone inside Nokia might demand that they switch to Android, because they might think the future of the company depends on it. I am puzzled by punters who make this demand, though. If you want an Android phone, there are dozens of them to be had. Surely we're better off having a bit more competition in the market, however that turns out for Nokia.
If punters wanted a Nokia with WinPho you would see different sales numbers instead Lumis being pushed throat down to salespeople at companies like where I work. Nokia had a new phone, the N9, which gattered massive attention among Nokia die hard fans, gsmarena dispays on their page the most popular phones, the N9 stayed there for months until Elop decided to make it available in few countries. The Lumias never get that kind of attention. So, if you don't understand why punters whant a Nokia with Android, that means you are not the kind of person who loves Nokia hardware and knows what means dealing with Microsoft software.
Upgrading to one of these at the end of the month when my contract is up, personally the wireless charging isn't a big deal for me i'd rather just have slimmer phone. ticks all the boxes for me and personally I love windows phone 8, you have to experience it!
I'm on an old iphone which is simply iphoo compared to my wifes lumia 820 so this being the high end model should be streets ahead.
anyone wanna buy my old iphoo?
> Is it locked to Vodaphone? I want the 32GB, but I want 4G (EE)
I had the same question the other day!
I've been meaning to upgrade from Lumia 710 for a while, so I decided to preorder the 32GB 925 from Vodafone (wanted to move from O2 anyway since I've got no reception in my flat).
Went over to Vodafone shop to ask a couple of questions before I do it, and it turns out it does come locked (as expected) but there's no guarantee that there will be unlock codes any time soon, but they expect them in 6 months. Went back home, called Vodafone - similar answer (but without any specifics whatsoever).
Well that's great, but I spend lots of time abroad and use pay-as-you-go / pre-paid to avoid ridiculous roaming charges...
So given choice of a sim-free 925 (16GB) for £500 and a sim-free 920 (32GB) for £333 (on Amazon), I decided to give up waiting and ordered the 920... 66% of the price and 200% the storage capacity. It is fugly and heavy but oh well, it comes with the same/similar great camera, offline maps and a free offline satnav (HERE Maps and Drive+). I hope they've fixed podcast support for non-US areas in GDR2!
"Anyway, these WP8 devices are at the higher end of the market, which implies a longer working life"
Pardon my French, but how the fuck did you draw that misguided conclusion???
Since when has a product's price implied it's expected length of working life?
In high-end smartphone terms it's irrelevant anyway, as most top-end handsets are superseded by a new model in a 1yr to 18months, out of production within 2 yrs, and flogged on at knock down prices on ebay within 3yrs.
Well, I started by knowing what the fuck "working life" actually means, if you'll pardon my French. Working life is how long the device is expected to remain fit for purpose. It has nothing to do with how many owners it goes through, or how often you personally toss your current phone and get a new one.
The first principle is that if other headline specifications are kept equal, a device's Mean Time Between Failures will be proportional to its component cost. Longer-lasting components cost more: always have, always will. In other words, the more expensive devices don't wear out as quickly.
Second, cheaper devices have lower headline specifications. Lower specifications within a product family mean that it will run out of support updates sooner than a device with more storage, faster CPU, more RAM, etc. Again, the more expensive device lasts longer, in that they remain able to do more of what the latest devices can.
This has nothing to do with how long you personally keep the device, but for how long the device remains usable to somebody. (I was also referring to using it for applications, because any smartphone is still usable as a phone/email/calendar long after it can't run new apps.)
The fact that you can sell a top-end smartphone on eBay three years after launch implies that someone is willing to buy it, and then use it. So that's your three years of use, plus another one or two from the next owner. That's what I mean by a longer working life.
It's a lot harder to sell a low-end device for the same kind of percentage return, which implies that there are fewer buyers for it, even at the lower absolute price, and the primary reason for this is that the device would be of less use to them.
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