As you can imagine this didn't go down so well, if it weren't for £429 for a glorified licence on a console you hardly own anything on....they would have succeeded hard
Microsoft announces $499 price tag, new games for Xbox One
Microsoft has used the annual E3 gaming conference in Los Angeles to announce the launch pricing for its new Xbox console and – surprise, surprise – it's UK gamers who will be paying more than anyone else for the kit. US consumers will pay $499 for a bundle including the Xbox, Kinect gesture control system, and a single Xbox …
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 00:32 GMT Anonymous Coward
Comparing like with like
UK price is actually £357.50 + £71.50 tax, the US price quoted $499 does not include sales tax. So UK is paying 10% than USA more comparing like with like. Interesting to see if retailer sell at list price or if the list price is intended to allow for discounts.
Still not seen many reasons to buy until there are more games and price goes down next year.
Next lets see what Sony have to say about PS4.
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 02:40 GMT R 11
Re: Comparing like with like
Only a handful of states have no sales tax, while half of all states impose a 'use tax' on internet purchases. Of course many do not pay this tax, but not paying does not mean you're not supposed to pay.
On top of that, Amazon charges sales tax in nine states (yes there are other online retailers, but they are certainly the largest) so your good chance of not being taxed might not be as good as you first thought.
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 03:22 GMT Don Jefe
Re: Comparing like with like
That 5% figure is based on fairly skewed numbers. Some states do not have sales tax at all. Where I'm at I pay 7% State sales tax, 2% county sales tax and a 1.35% city sales tax.
Your points are totally valid, I just wanted to point out the US sales tax laws are screwy and published sales tax averages rarely give a complete outline of the situation. The places with no sales tax are generally lower population states but their impact on the averages is quite large.
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 01:44 GMT M Gale
Re: Comparing like with like
Next lets see what Sony have to say about PS4.
I dunno. Maybe the boss might just walk on, say "$299", and walk off again? Not like it hasn't happened before. And then the year after.
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 03:56 GMT LAGMonkey
Re: Comparing like with like
$399... no restrictions on sharing and after market.... no always connected DRM...
*walks off*
thats basically what i saw when i watched the coverage. Sony has this one in the bag even tho i still have not forgiven them for the PS3 "other OS" fuster-cluck.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2013/06/10/sony-confirms-no-changes-to-used-games-on-ps4-no-internet-connection-required/
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 19:13 GMT Rufusstan
Re: Comparing like with like
They have not come out and said upfront that it is going to happen, but are talking about some kind of streaming/emulation -- through Gaikai (which they just happen to own now). Wont be until next year at least, or how it works in practice.....The whole do I use games I already own for free or have to rebuy? hasn't been mentioned yet.
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 06:32 GMT Scrumble
Re: Comparing like with like
Okay, so before tax in the UK it is £357, at todays currency rates that means the equivalent in the US should be $556, or working the other way $499 in the USA would be £320. "But that's only £37 difference" if the One sells as many as the 360 in the UK, thats 8m units x £37 = £296m extra profit.
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 08:34 GMT JC_
Re: Comparing like with like
the One sells as many as the 360 in the UK, that's 8m units x £37 = £296m extra profit.
Only if all other things are equal, which they aren't.
For example, you like those consumer protection laws in the UK that ensure a product has to be fit for purpose? I certainly do, but there's a price to pay in preventing manufacturers from saying "tough shit" when something expensive breaks down after 366 days and that will be included in the inflated number.
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 09:07 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Comparing like with like
So, PS4 launches at £349 (UK including tax), $399 (US excluding). PlayStation Camera is £44 ($59). So like for like (sort of) its XBO at £429 v PS4 at £383.
Not a huge difference but why the hell Microsoft didn't launch at £399? They will spend far more than £30/unit on extra advertising to try to counter the used games messaging fiasco.
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 00:55 GMT John Brown (no body)
including VAT/Sales taxes?
Just out of curiosity, what taxes are included in those headline prices?
US prices are usually advertised sans sales tax as that varies from state to states and even city to city.
Quoting a "European" price without mentioning if it is sans tax is odd too as VAT varies from country to country.
Are we to assume that the quoted prices are all sans VAT/sales tax and therefore will be significant;y higher?
It'd be nice if this sort of things was made more clear in Reg articles. It seems to me that this is rarely the case and smells of sloppiness.
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 01:25 GMT Anonymous Coward
"Microsoft is including a free 14-day trial of Xbox Live Gold for new buyers, and all Gold subscribers will get two free Xbox 360 game downloads per month until the end of the year. That won't be much help for new console buyers, since the 360 titles aren't compatible with the new system."
Yep, sounds like something Microsoft would do. They listen to the customers and then ignore it as well. So the chance of this getting fixed is slim to none.
Microsoft really just continues to show that they are out of touch with the consumer. If this fails, does that mean Balmer goes too?
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 01:53 GMT W.O.Frobozz
Heh.
I have two friends who are Xbox 360 fanboys to the extreme. The XBone has done the unthinkable...alienated and angered them both and the silly thing isn't even out on the streets yet. The one guy, someone who hates Sony up and down, told me that he'd consider looking at the PS4.
At this point Sony would have to make a real effort to screw up. But given Sony...
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 08:47 GMT Aldous
Re: Heh.
In a similar boat. Not a fanboy for console brands but went for a 360 over ps3 due to Sony's historic shafting of Europe with the ps2 (huge delays, huge pricing and a general screw you attitude).
Microsoft have resorted to type: mandatory connect, once daily internet check (took me 8 weeks to get a connection when moving house) and 10 user limit are all pointless dick moves. Not sure if i will get a PS4 or return to PC only again but will not be buying an xbone
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 03:01 GMT Zola
XBox One: Too expensive, too restrictive, heading for a FAIL
If Sony can significantly undercut Microsoft with the price of the PS4, and avoid blowing their own feet off by repeating Microsoft's mistake with overly restrictive DRM and killing the pre-owned market, then Sony will have a huge advantage when they come to market.
Sony now has a golden opportunity to outmanoeuvre Microsoft on price and policy, however I have a sneaking suspicion they'll stuff it up on both counts.
Overpriced consoles, £50 games that you don't really own, and require an always-on connection just to play - if this is what comes to pass with both Sony and Microsoft I think it's most likely the beginning of the end for the high end games consoles. It's going to be much cheaper and just as much fun to own (really own) and play something like an Ouya, or Gamestick (under £100 to buy, with £5 games etc.).
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Wednesday 12th June 2013 16:28 GMT chr0m4t1c
Re: XBox One: Too expensive, too restrictive, heading for a FAIL
As already noted, Sony have just done this.
I expect I'll end up with both consoles over time (I have XBox360 & PS3 already), but I'm now definitely ordering the PS4 first. In fact, I'm going to see how the DRM stuff pans out in practice before I order the new XB, so I may not buy one for several years (if at all).
I don't play games online, so I don't need to have a subscription to PSN, but I'm thoroughly unimpressed that I'd need XB Gold to be able to use half the functionality of the XB1.
Seriously, what's up with MS these days? They bring out a half decent mobile OS and then ruin their desktop OS by plastering the unsuitable interface all over it and now they've taken a decent gaming system and then tied it's feet together before asking it to run a sprint race against it's main competitor.
Has someone told them people often root for the plucky underdog so they're now trying to become the underdog to gain public approval?
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 03:22 GMT Chairo
it's UK gamers who will be paying more than anyone else
<troll>
Is that due to the huge locali
zsation effort required to translate the menus to British English? Or do they calculate the price on the sheep/human ratio of the country? Hmm, no, Australia and the Kiwis have a higher ratio...Btw. Will the XBox One have some country code system to make sure you cannot use it in another country? Using some IP address locator service, it should be trivial to implement. It would also fit the "general spirit" of this console.
</troll>
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 14:44 GMT Anonymous Coward
"Sony have decided to charge for multiplayer service on the PS4"
Not quite, PS+ is now needed for Multiplayer. That's not bad thing. Have you seen how much you get for free? Loads of AAA rated titles, and also lesser known titles well worth a look...
I really don't care they are charging for PS+ as PS+ was an essential purchase anyway...
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 07:05 GMT Confuciousmobil
It's terrible
I know I should wait for the price to come down or for the PS4, but I had my 360 for nearly a year before the PS3.
All my devices are always connected anyway, if yours aren't you really should try joining the 21st C
Not sure I'm that keen on the DRM but it probably won't affect me and the price could be cheaper - but how much is a top of the range graphics card for your PC (cue flames).
Have fun you guys, I will with an xbone.
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 09:05 GMT Colin Ritchie
Re: It's terrible
Guessing the Xboys don't like the inference that their next gen console is made out of cheap PC hardware, I can refer you to another source:
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/156273-xbox-720-vs-ps4-vs-pc-how-the-hardware-specs-compare
I ain't making this crap up folks, M$ love a good profit margin as much as Apple do.
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 11:08 GMT Paul Shirley
@Colin Ritchie:$400 behemoths
Even those $400 behemoths are sitting on the wrong side of a PCIe bus. Unified memory doesn't just make programming simpler, it significantly improves performance on at least some tasks. The GPU might well be 'mediocre' in a PC architecture, it will work a lot better in the XBone/PS4 architecture - especially with DDR5 in the PS4.
Only the integrated GPUs in PC builds could compete but they truly are low end crap running with DDR3. It's just a matter of time till someone ships a similar APU in a real PC though. Maybe time left for Steam to rework the Steam Box ;)
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Wednesday 12th June 2013 00:55 GMT Colin Ritchie
Re: @Colin Ritchie:$400 behemoths
I agree, a dedicated GPU on the same die as the CPU, specifically designed for playing games, will do a better job at playing games. I wasn't claiming that the same hardware in a PC will perform as well in that task specifically. My statement was purely about how much that hardware costs, nothing more. How the Xbone utilizes it is down to the architecture and the programming, not the price.
The cost price of the components will be far less to M$ than to a retail buyer of the same components for their PC. An 8 core AMD CPU and a 7790 GFX card will rush a punter about $300, I assume M$ will pay less than half that, especially as they come on the same die. I would also expect the profit margin on an Xbone to be above 50% even before M$ shaft their loyal punters with punitive DRM and extortionate new game price. Monkey boy will be creaming himself if he gets away with this cash cow herd model and his position as head milker will be secure till retirement.
I have one more concern for APU tech with such high performance potential: heat dissipation. I sincerely hope they have got that right, otherwise the red ring of death may be a "feature" of Xbox architecture once again.
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 07:32 GMT kdh0009
Perhaps a little too self-indulgent...
I'm not actually so anti-Microsoft, but they deserve it this time.
I kinda wonder what they would have done if Sony had come out with their sales pitch first? Would they have tried to change anything? Or just gone out there and said "Erm yeah, it's more expensive and more restrictive, and you need a subscription - i'll get my coat"
Promises not to mock ElReg's most capitalised contributor again
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 07:17 GMT Davie Dee
I usually stick up for MS, whilst I don't always agree with this methods, the logic is usually sound.
I do however find myself wondering what the deal is with this, the idea of the XB one looks exactly what I want, but I wouldn't even consider it at that price point. the after sales guff is all a bit of FUD, you will buy the games one way or another IF you own the console. The fail as far as I can see is that I don't own a console, and whilst I would have gotten a XB One I wont at that price. I suspect there are many other users out there that feel the same. I did buy the original XB, and modded it as you do, but the shafting we got when the 360 came out despite the significantly improved console, didn't make me want to buy it then... I feel the same way about the One now.
MS should take a leaf out of printer manufactures. charge £30 for the printer with half empty carts and £40 to replace them with newer ones. They make a mint off the carts and run the printers cheap, probably at a loss!
Nope, ill stick to my big-ol HTPC for now with its 360 controller does what I want, and the size and noise isn't too bad.
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 07:51 GMT chiller
MS - a stumbling drunk
I have owned every Xbox and Playstation ever released at one time or other but I cannot see myself purchasing the new Xbox. Who is making the decisions at MS? They stumble from one stupid decision to another like a pissed up old fart in the street, Windows, Office and now this - why has nobody been sacked? Why is that fist pumping idiot still in charge?
Sony can really benefit from all this but history tells us that is unlikely, I hope I am wrong.
I hope MS 'listen to their customers' and make changes to make the Xbox one an attractive option, will stick with my PC and Steam for now.
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 12:51 GMT John Brown (no body)
Re: Too pricey in Europe
"The price is actually about 10% higher in UK."
So why 10% higher in the UK? It's not like they sell them cheaper in the local market due to shipping costs. The boxes come from the Far East anyway. That's not to mention the general difference in standards/cost of living and disposable income.
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 08:22 GMT goldcd
Personally
I don't have an issue with either price - OK the Xbox costs more, but it does have the mandatory Kinect thrown in now. Always online, well all my stuff is anyway. Never bought or sold a game second hand, so that's another one ticked off.
However, where I think Xbox are going to get royally bitten on their arse is over the 2nd hand games/locking to individual user accounts. All those shops on my high st seem to be surviving solely on their 2nd hand/trade-in market - bringing in a game and cash and walking out with another game is pretty much the only area where Amazon will never come up with a simpler/quicker solution.
I would have thought these retailers are going to be massively favouring the PS4 and pushing it over the XBO at every opportunity - as every sale they make is going to be supporting their collective future.
Reality of course is that the PS4 will descend into a mess of 'online passes' that you have to buy individually for each 2nd hand game you buy as is the case already with the Vita, but that's not their problem.
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 09:28 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Personally
Amazing how Microsoft could take the positive feature "buy your game online and have option to transfer rights to a friend or sell those rights to a store" and turn it into a confusing story about physical media sales.
Agree its likely the reality of PS4 will turn into a mess of passes which may or may not end up worse than the unified Microsoft system.
Personally speaking, I like whats being done with Kinect and other online orientated features of XBox but can't see buying either console until 2014 by which time pricing and features should have settled down so can make a rational comparison which to buy first.
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 10:10 GMT jason 7
Re: Personally
@goldcd
I'm kind of in the same boat. I don't swap games or buy second hand stuff much so the DRM doesn't affect me at all. In fact in reality it probably wont affect as many folks as everyone is saying. But I am amazed at how complicated a company can make stuff.
MS seems to want to Apply Adobe's old upgrade/licensing methodology to all its products in basically confusing the hell out of them all.
MS really needs to look at all this feedback and essentially dump anything that a consumer would have to read at least twice to understand.
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 13:00 GMT RetroTom
Re: Personally
Sony could try forcing this by disallowing such systems in their TCRs, that would be a solid statement of win for the customer.
If Sony can do that, and manage to prize some of the key sports licenses away from EA Games then Microsoft may as well melt down every box it has built so far and cut its losses selling off the parts for scrap.
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 15:23 GMT Greg J Preece
Re: Personally
Reality of course is that the PS4 will descend into a mess of 'online passes' that you have to buy individually for each 2nd hand game you buy as is the case already with the Vita, but that's not their problem.
EA have announced recently that not only are they ditching that crap, but you'll be given free codes retroactively for games that had that crap. Hopefully others will follow suit.
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 09:39 GMT Piro
Re: Forza
This is my exact predicament.
Forza 4 is clearly a fantastic racing game, easy to argue that it's better than Gran Turismo 5.
The news that the Gran Turismo 6 is going to launch as a PS3 game is sad.
That means if they do a conversion for PS4 later, they'll just tinker with the resolution a bit and call it done - a launch day Gran Turismo 6 that looked absolutely incredible would easily be enough for me to buy a PS4.
That said, I really hate having the left stick in the middle of the controller, especially for racing games.
Just need an adapter for the Xbone Controller to work with the PS4..
I'll totally pass on the Xbone, though. Microsoft, you're just making a tit of yourself.
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 08:34 GMT Anonymous Coward
BBC has done a basic comparison....
... enough that this twice over Xbox 360 owner feels the PS4 looks the better deal right now :-.
1. PS4 is quite a bit cheaper, even if calculating sales-tax / VAT has yet to be accounted for.
2. No enforced Kinect. I don't want it, even if MS provides clear instructions for disabling it permanently!
3. Second hand games are ok. Crucial for me and as its easy to get stuck with a game that's only QTE!
4. No always-on net. No authentication via the internet so games can continue to be played indefinitely.
5. Support for Indie Game industry. "Indie Developers Speak Out Against Microsoft, Praise the Competition". Crucial for me as a games developer. Crucial for innovation too as the Triple-A game line-up of the past year was as rewarding as sequel / reboot / marvel comics surprises from Hollywood....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22850409
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 09:51 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: BBC has done a basic comparison....
Disks are authenticated each time we play, unlike you I've no problem with online although some fallback in case of > 24 hour net outage for games that don't have an online element would be a desirable addition.
What has the fact you don't want to use kinect have anything to do with anything? (hint: your reasons might)
Depending on which rumours you believe, the situation for Indie devs may be better on Xbox. We should hear more later in the month at the Build conference.
That aside, as an Xbox and PS3 user, PS4 looks to have won the first round in the battle to part me from my cash. Microsoft need to come up with something between now and November to stay in the game IMO.
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 17:56 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: BBC has done a basic comparison....
#1. "Depending on which rumours you believe, the situation for Indie devs may be better on Xbox."....... Do you have links to back that up? Not to defend Sony but it is explicitly stating it will support Indie whereas MS is explicitly stating it will support Triple-A developers. The COD or Halo games have gone as far as they can IMHO. We need new ideas, otherwise it just going to feel like sequel / remake / reboot Hollywood hell.
#2. "unlike you I've no problem with online although some fallback in case of > 24 hour net outage"......... A 24-hour authentication window is ridiculous. Building work in your street can kill a net connecting for 2 to 3 days. A week minimum is best. Plus it would mean you could bring the AdBox1 on holiday if you wanted.
#3. "What has the fact you don't want to use kinect have anything to do with anything? (hint: your reasons might)"....... I don't understand why Kinect is mandatory. Have you experience with Kinect? If so please share. I'd like to know how it ads to the FPS or Driving game experience, in particular i.e. COD series, Far Cry 3, Hitman series, Dishonored, Bioshock, Forza or the soon to be released Watch Dogs & GTA V...
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 08:35 GMT The Alpha Klutz
UGLY
The new Xbox, and the new playstation, really are the ugliest consoles to date. These things never looked "good" but now they really do look bad. They could have put SOME effort into the design and realised that these items go into peoples houses, but no, for your £400 you get the cheapest of cheap plastics. At least Apple would give you some aluminium for that price. Fucking hell.
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 18:29 GMT The Alpha Klutz
Re: UGLY
The hardware is costly, now.
But in 2 years it will be commodity and Apple will sell it in a sexy case. I suppose 2 years is an eternity to wait for the gamer demographic so it probably won't affect sales. At least not among their core demographic. But this thing *is* a locked down PC with off the shelf parts: AMD probably will sell you the same chip (or better) through eBuyer in a year or two. Is it that long to wait?
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 08:38 GMT Anonymous Coward
No Backwards Compatibility
does it for me, if I can't use my existing collection of games on it, then there's no reason to stick to an X-box in the future. It's a good way to remove any lingering brand loyalty.
So now I've actually got the luxury of being able to choose a console on it's merits. I think my take on this one will be to sit back for a year or so after they've both launched & let everyone else find out for me before deciding which (if any) to bother with.....
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 09:40 GMT Anonymous Coward
Don't bother....
Just buy a gaming PC.
I know this is against the grain, but why would you buy a locked down, glorified PC in an overpriced box when you can buy a reasonable gaming PC NOW, not Xmas 2013 for the same money. The real kicker is, this PC can be used for whatever you want, games/streaming/emailing/bacefook and it's upgradable.
This is the flaw in both companies plans to me. I've worked in IT all my life, I used to PC game, but after so long in this arena, I just wanted a 'turn on and play' solution when it came to fun time, so I bought consoles. Now I am looking at the price, the disadvantages and thinking that it's gone full circle and it's time to move back the PC. Even taking into account the upgrades, the drivers, directx - I still feel it will be worth the hassle. Not only that, but the same game for the PC, (if available) tends to be cheaper than the console variant.
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 09:42 GMT Piro
Re: Don't bother....
You're mostly likely preaching to those who have a gaming PC and a Steam account already.
Doesn't avoid the fact that there are often exclusives on consoles people actually want.
The unwashed masses do want a simple gaming box, and I'm afraid the Xbone with its rubbish DRM is not that.
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 10:43 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Don't bother....
I take your point but:
I have an XBox360 that I purchased in 2005 - over 7 years ago. I'm currently playing Forza4 which looks and runs fantastically. I'm looking forward to GTA5 later this year which is shaping up to be a very good game visually (and, I'm sure, in many other ways).
I also have a gaming PC from 2005 that was considered top of the range at that time. Can I play ANY of the latest crop of games on it? No? In fact, from about 2007 it has been below-par for almost all new releases.
So your logic is fine, as long as you're willing to either not buy new games after about the first 24 months of owning your PC or if you're willing to significantly upgrade/replace it every few years.
Or have I missed something?
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 10:53 GMT Piro
Re: Don't bother....
Forza 4 is an exclusive, though. Great game. Have an Xbox 360 which I use solely for this, really.
Sometimes you have to get a console for the exclusives you want.
I am surprised to hear your launch Xenon still works, though.
I had a Xenon, it red ringed, repaired, died.
Then had another Xenon, red ringed, died.
Now I have an early Jasper with the die shrinks AND the RMA heatsink. (Picked it out for this very reason, I figure it's going to have the best chance of any pre-slim to survive. I don't want a slim, I sit my monitor on the 360, it'd block the fan intake).
I don't even play 360 often AT ALL. I don't play any FPS games, I don't play online, I just fire up Forza 4 now and then. So I don't know why the pissing things kept dying. It's not like I kept them in an enclosed space, or on their side..
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 19:09 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Don't bother....
"I am surprised to hear your launch Xenon still works, though."
You and me both! :) It RROD'd within the first month and was replaced (by Game in Swindon) but since then, no issues whatsoever apart from the occasional game hang (a friend of mine says this happens to his 6 month old 360 so I'm assuming this is possibly software related) - I'm definitely one of the lucky ones!
It's a Core rather than a Premium version and has stood on its end on a shelf since 2005, only being moved a couple of times to paint the wall behind it! It gets used a few times a week - probably a total of 1-3 hours each time.
Anyway - not sure what to do about the Xbox One - I'm reluctant to move back to a PS but don't fancy being so blatantly bent over by MS, regardless of whether I think the DRM and phone-home aspects would affect me. Sometimes it's the principle isn't it?
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 09:40 GMT maltek
Microsoft Vs Sony
It seems that with some of the decisions Microsoft have made recently that they have a death wish,thankfully Sony is listening to what gamers want rather than the attitude this is what you get ,live with it. Have X360 & Ps3,
will buy PS4 but not the new Xbox one.Microsoft are now too damm greedy a company screwing every penny out of people,why should I have to have Gold to view Netflix or Lovefilm when I have already paid my subscription,I can on the PS3 with no extra charge.After the cockups with Vista,Win8 I think this is another one to add to the list.
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 11:33 GMT Anonymous Coward
It could be the end of the Xbox road for me...
...and I say so as a long-term and loyal user. I had the first Xbox from the first UK price drop (even getting an early disc-scratcher - remember those?), scraping together the money as a hard-up shop assistant. And I loved it. Really did. Then the 360 came along. I didn't bite at first, but then I saw the first wave of decent games coming along, and I went for it. I've been through the red-ring rite of passage (oo-er), and also just plain knackered one out.
Now, this. Hmmm.
Previously, two properties made considering anything other than an Xbox a non-starter : Halo, and Gears Of War. Two universes I love. I was prepared to take a couple of knocks on the consumer chin to keep playing.
Now, that knock feels more like a Frank Bruno special, delivered right on the kisser. It's more than I can take. More than I *should* take. The Xbox One already feels like it's being sold in contempt of the customer; 'it's not yours, none of this is yours, you're just borrowing it'.
Really? I've been a loyal customer for years, piling money into hardware and games, and now my console is shackled because I have an ISP issue or something? That doesn't seem to be serving anyone other than Microsoft, and we're paying a premium for the 'pleasure'. Trading a game in shouldn't take any process than: hand over at counter > get something else. I don't do it much, if at all, but the option is nice.
I can't in good conscience put my money and support behind such a system. I'll miss Halo and GOW, and all the other stuff I discovered and loved - but unless MS make a pretty rapid 360 (pun intended), I can see many thousands of informed consumers coming to the same conclusion.
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 12:50 GMT MACWINLINO
Congrats MS
Congratulations Microsoft, you have managed to drive a loyal Xbox gamer back onto Play Station gaming! Sometimes MS I wonder if you actually realise what is going on, when you alienate your customer base what do you think will eventually happen?
Xbox One=Entertainment Center
Play Station 4=Gaming Console
Nuff said!
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 13:22 GMT Anonymous Coward
Well done MS - I'll miss Forza tho :(
The always on (with regards to checking whether to allow you to play your game or not) on daily basis and idiotic handling of lending/gifting/second hand market are likely to hurt sales. A lot.
Even in the current mostly connected world there are many situations where a console would be used and an internet connection might not be available. You might have a holiday residence/boat/caravan/etc without internet and might still want to play games (or have kids play games) on occasion. Apparently not anymore then. Not even if you have the physical disc.
Stopping (or limiting it to once only) lending/gifting games isn't going to increase sales. However someone borrowing a game to try it out may well result in them going out and buying their own copy.
Then there is PS4. After all the shafting during PS3 launch and their later antics of changing functionality mid way, I don't think Sony can be trusted any more than Microsoft.
Ah well, the money saved can go towards a new graphics card. it's not like I can't still plug it into the big TV in the lounge with HDMI and use Xbox360 controller with the dongle. And as a plus PC games tend to be bit cheaper than the console versions.
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 14:02 GMT Anonymous Coward
I wonder how Microsoft will respond
Based on the Windows 8 saga, one could suspect that they might stay the course (or be paralysed by indecision) unless/until early sales figures show a significant public preference for the PS4. At that point, if they remain true to form, their response will be a token gesture of some kind. In both cases they have a clear agenda that they wish to pursue, and are possibly reluctant to be sidetracked.
HOWEVER: Windows 8 does not have significant competition from another company. Compare that to the Xbox One, which has an aggressive competitor with roughly equal market share. They may be forced to act sooner, and more decisively. Are they prepared to abandon their DRM agenda, or will they perhaps attempt to bribe people into accepting it? Interesting times.
(Disclaimer: I use a PC gaming rig, and do not own a console.)
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 14:10 GMT Pascal Monett
There just might be a silver lining though
Apart from just how badly Microsoft is shooting itself in the foot again, there just might be potential for something good to come out of this.
I'm thinking of a law mandating that any company pushing monthly fees (aka licensing or renting) on games be legally forced to keep the servers running until the very last player has revoked his license, not until the game maker decides that it is not making enough money on it anymore.
I mean hey, if they can stiff us with monthly fees and online registration, we should at least be the ones with the right to decide if or not it is time to retire the game.
And yes, I'd like some fries with that.
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 14:20 GMT elmo
It's a simple outcome really
THe PS4 is an easy win.
Am I bothered about phone home/always on? No
Am I bothered about kinect? Yes, I don't want the eye of sauron on the top of my TV
Am i bothered about 2nd hand games? Yep, there are only a few must buy titles, all the others I'll wait a while for.
Someone in an earlier post hinted to backwards compatibility? I didn't think this was possible on the PS4 due to the move to x86?
Only slightly negative is the move to online requiring Playstation+ But, if they use the fee to improve the service that's fine with me!
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Tuesday 11th June 2013 15:15 GMT William Hinshaw
The Spy Box
It should be just called the Spy Box. I'm not paying for a box designed specifically to put a camera and microphone into my living room that is connected to the Internet 24/7 (requiring it connect every 24 hours is basically 24/7 unless the kid takes it to a friends in the country).
Microsoft was the first to get on board with the NSA spy program. Yeah so you can damn well bet that the NSA is going to be getting into every Spy Box it can. OH and what about hackers? I bet that in a month or less there will be plenty of videos and pictures posted on the Internet of all kinds of people caught on camera. Really M$ can't make anything secure and given that they have back doors put into their stuff under contract with the NSA probably you can bet that hackers will get in. You know they want this as it is REQUIRED that the Kineckt be hooked up for the thing to even run. Talk about fail fail fail.
The more I find out about the Spy Box the more I just hate M$ for doing the crap it does.
I hope that all of management that was part of making this the "in home spy machine" burn in hell.
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Thursday 13th June 2013 10:23 GMT Anonymous Coward
Bleeding money for fanboys
I'm not so sure it's over yet. Sony obviously waited to see what cards MS played then likely did a massive internal U-turn. It's not just MS and Sony who fancy DRM. They are under massive pressure from developers to do it.
Regarding 'always-on'. Sony sat back and watched the bad press MS received, bang and another decision was made for them. The current Xbox was hardly an offline games fest, I've lost count how many times I've seen "you must be signed in" (even when I already was)
Sony have also been forced to undercut MS on price when they are already bleeding money left right and center.
After Sony announced the PS3, they left off features and eventually cut the price. There's no reason why MS can't do this either. Remember "gamers are ready for real change" ? dual screen gaming via dual 1080P outputs never actually happened. At least Sony aren't as big mouthed as they were with the PS2 and PS3, both machines successful despite not being as good as the competitors let alone being nowhere near what was promised.
At the end of the day, both consoles will be Call of Duty, Forza/GT and GTA boxes for the hardcore young gamer.
I never thought I's see the day, but age has caught up with me and this generation of consoles has nothing to tempt me into not growing up.
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Thursday 13th June 2013 10:34 GMT Anonymous Coward
40 somethings
I get the impression many posters here are in their 40s acting like they're in their 20s again.
I've yet to see a post here that actually realizes that there are new generations of gamer who are born then step up to the powerful consoles all the time. Many won't care or have any loyalty whatsoever. The GTAs, Forzas will all be new experiences for them when they step up from their Wii's, 3Ds and Ipads.
Selling games on the second hand market will only be something dads and grandads reminisce.
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Friday 14th June 2013 12:44 GMT Paul Shirley
Re: 40 somethings
You're right about them having no loyalty. Couple of weeks back I chatted with 3 20something, XBox360 owning gamers and it turned into the 2 younger gamers convincing the other to get back into PC gaming!
Cost was a large part of what had been putting him off the PC based on the cost of building a gaming PC compared to XBox. Well, XBone and the inexorably march of progress on the PC wiped out that difference and the murky resale position just raised the expected cost of content on XBone.
It's a double hit and you're mistaken to think cost is not a problem. ATM console gamers reduce their costs by resale, where PC gamers don't really need to due to frequently lower content pricing. What my chat established is none of them feel any loyalty to their current console, they'll go where the gaming is good but not at any price. And the PC is back in the game after many years of decline.
(It also established that they all gamed on mobile as well, which probably is a bigger threat to traditional consoles and the insane XB policies)
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