back to article Intel: Haswell is biggest 'generational leap' we have EVER DONE

As expected, Intel today took centre stage on the first day of Computex proper to launch its long-awaited lineup of Haswell processors. And Chipzilla heralded the new 2-in-1 form-factor - PCs that can turn into tablets - in which many of these new chips will find themselves. As one of the most widely trailed and hyped chip …

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  1. Wyrdness
    WTF?

    2-in-1 WTF?

    So you've mentioned "2-in-1" no fewer than 10 times in the article, without actually telling us what that means. Googling for the term doesn't help, as the first relevant result is this article itself.

    Can anybody enlighten me?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 2-in-1 WTF?

      "It’s PC performance and tablet-like mobility in one"

    2. Si 1

      Re: 2-in-1 WTF?

      I think they're referring to the newly announced Frankenstein tablets that have both an i7 and an Atom chip on board and run two operating systems. The Atom chip runs Android and the i7 runs Windows 8.

      Unless they've found a great way to share data between the two operating systems I can't see it working very well.

      1. P. Lee

        Re: 2-in-1 WTF?

        > Unless they've found a great way to share data between the two operating systems I can't see it working very well.

        I can see it working well. Screens and batteries are expensive - being able to share those cuts the cost of IT even if you can't share data.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: 2-in-1 WTF?

        No, I think they're referring to the fact that it has a docking station/detachable keyboard, allowing it to be used also as a tablet. Also, when a second processor is used with an Intel chip, typically the Intel chip is in the docking station or keyboard, and the second processor is an ARM chip (not an Atom), located in the tablet part.

        This means that when used as a tablet, the device runs Android, and when plugged into the keyboard/base station, it runs Windows 8.

        I can see that combination working well for most people, given the different uses for tablets and desktops.

    3. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Paris Hilton

      Re: 2-in-1 WTF?

      Isn't it just the new rectangular die form factor of the chip?

      Or maybe they are talking about Wintel suicide pact.

    4. Ged T

      Re: 2-in-1 WTF?

      Its defined (by Intel's EVP) in the middle of the article:

      >> "Two years ago we talked about reinventing [the notebook] with the ultrabook and today we’re talking about 2-in-1. It’s PC performance and tablet-like mobility in one,” he said. <<

    5. robert cooke

      Re: 2-in-1 WTF?

      having the CPU and GPU in the same physical package.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 2-in-1 WTF?

      2-in-1 in this context probably refers to computers that are designed to be easily convertible between tablet and notebook styles of use.

      2-in-1 could also refer to a CPU configuration where there are both low power and high performance CPUs in the device. The low power CPU runs until more MIPS are needed, then the high power CPU takes over. But Haswell has low power modes built in so this is unlikely.

    7. Mark 110

      Re: 2-in-1 WTF?

      I think they are referring to touch screen laptops that you can detach or hide the keyboard to form a tablet.

    8. diodesign (Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

      Re: 2-in-1 WTF?

      "So you've mentioned "2-in-1" no fewer than 10 times in the article, without actually telling us what that means"

      PCs that can convert into tablets, and vice versa. I've made it clear in the piece now.

      C.

    9. toozer

      Re: 2-in-1 WTF?

      He says 2-in-1 is PC performance and tablet-like mobility in one.

    10. Johnny G

      Re: 2-in-1 WTF?

      BOGOF.

      That is all.

    11. Cucumber C Face
      Meh

      Re: 2-in-1 WTF?

      OK I think it goes like this..

      The Spice Girls had a song 'Two become one'.

      Ginger Spice aka Geri Halliwell - sounds like Haswell.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Double the power of existing Intel graphics

    So still pretty crappy graphics then. At least they make good CPUs

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Alien

      Re: Double the power of existing Intel graphics

      Yes I agree - even the so-called 'Intel Extreme Graphics' - I noticed that there was nothing extreme about it at all apart from the extreme brass-neck to call it so.

      1. WDC81
        Meh

        Re: Double the power of existing Intel graphics

        It's about x3 more powerful than last gen Intel graphics based some youtube videos I've seen with benchmarks. Other than that the same are reporting about a 6% increase over ivy bridge, with the downside being it gets as hot as Hades. Hotter than ivy bridge!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Double the power of existing Intel graphics

      And whos fault is that then. Intel designs its chips to run software that is required of it. If the graphics libraries such as DirectX are using poor techniques then you can hardly fault Intel alone for its Graphics chips. The designers of the PlayStation have control over both the hardware and software to deliver realistic visual effects.

      1. wowfood
        Facepalm

        Re: Double the power of existing Intel graphics

        So DirectX / openGL are the problem and not Intels hardware, insptie of the fact that both run fine on nVidia graphics chips, including those baked onto ARM, likewise with AMDs graphics solution that runs standalone, and is also baked onto AMD chips, and works better than intel.

        Nope everything else working well is clearly no evidence at all, must be the APIs instead.

    3. Allicorn

      Re: Double the power of existing Intel graphics

      Will it have double the driver quality too? That'd be... hmm... that'd be still a pretty crappy driver actually.

      1. Captain Scarlet
        Unhappy

        Re: Double the power of existing Intel graphics

        "Will it have double the driver quality too? That'd be... hmm... that'd be still a pretty crappy driver actually"

        Oh god no, last time they gave it a new GUI and managed to double its size.

      2. Gene Cash Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        Re: Double the power of existing Intel graphics

        Hm. I use Intel graphics because on Linux it just works, as opposed to to the hassle that is ATI/Nvidia. It runs minecraft just fine and that's the most I ask.

    4. Mark .

      Re: Double the power of existing Intel graphics

      You've got to compare like with like. Sure, high end gamers aren't going to be throwing away their NVIDIA/AMD GPUs, but ultra-portables and tablets don't have those in anyway. How does it look when we compare to the competition in tablets, i.e., ARM based GPUs?

      Intel HD is pretty good for most people, including for older or less high end games, and imo the driver quality seems much improved over the older GMA chipsets. I'd be interesting to see what the situation is for the Atom x86 processors though...

      And even the high end gaming laptops benefit from Intel HD improvements, since things like Optimus will use the Intel graphics most the time, only using the dedicated GPU when needed.

      1. Steve Todd

        Re: Double the power of existing Intel graphics

        I think you'll find that the comparison was made against AMD integrated graphics, which are substantially quicker (even though the CPU is less powerful).

        1. Mark .

          Re: Double the power of existing Intel graphics

          The AC didn't specify - but it's still useful for Intel HD graphics to be faster.

          Why don't we see more AMD x86 CPU/GPUs in ultra-portables/hybrids/tablets, anyone know?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Double the power of existing Intel graphics

            Power pure and simple. AMD cpus take up more power than the intel equivalents due to the larger fabrication proess, they're still several steps behind intel in that sense.

            And yes, I was comparing intel integrated to amd integrated, and partly to the ARM integrated also, although it's hard to draw a direct comparison with those.

            Also I have to figure out why when I post as AC I seem to get more upvotes than when I don't. Really confusing.

      2. Interceptor

        Re: Double the power of existing Intel graphics

        I have a tablet here that sure does have an nvidia GPU.

        With that said, it looks like 3dfx-era Voodoo-II level graphics when I put it on the monitor so that's not saying much.

  3. Turtle

    Still.

    "'it's going to take lower PC prices, increased availability of touch, the ‘re-launch’ of Windows with 8.1 and more stylish designs to really get the PC market going again'."

    I guess that they still haven't realized that current and even recent generation smartphones are pretty nearly as powerful a computer as most people need and such people have no use for more powerful desktops or even laptops than they already have - assuming that they even have such in the first place.

    1. Mark .

      Re: Still.

      I find it funny to see all the people saying this, are people who own laptops too. At least, correct me if I'm wrong - do you do everything on a phone? Whilst I've no doubt that there are some people using phones instead of laptops (this is Not News - I recall stories as far back as 2005 about this), this does not seem to be most people.

      In fact, with "powerful a computer as most people need and such people have no use for more powerful" you've got it backwards - it's laptops that are as powerful as most people need, so there's no longer as much need to buy new laptops as often. But people buy smartphones and tablets more often, because there's still a reason to get a more powerful device.

      When phones become as powerful as most people need, then the phone market will have "problems" too.

      It's also worth noting that phone sales have fallen (I believe in 2012), I don't see doom and gloom about dying phone market. (The stats are hidden because the media look at the ill-defined "smart" phone market, so basically, phones marketed with an arbitrary label are selling more - you could do the same trick with an arbitrary subset of PCs, and claim they've increased in sales.)

      It's obvious that phones will always have larger sales - phones are upgraded more often due to either being cheaper or tied to a contract, and they are also a personal device, where as laptops and desktops have often been shared. I presume that phone sales have been larger than PC sales for a long time - I don't know why we hear the doom and gloom about PCs only now.

  4. Frankee Llonnygog

    New efficient laptops CPUs announced ...

    ... days before Apple WWDC at which new MacBooks are expected.

  5. Tchou
    Joke

    2-in-1 : Can I be the first to say

    that you must have that Haswell.

    (Yis, ok, sorry).

  6. Dan Paul
    Devil

    How about "Haswell" on LGA 1156 instead of another new socket?

    If sales are so bad, could it be that Intel seems to think that all "updated" processors need to have new socket designs and thus new motherboards?

    For many years there was some consistency between mobo's and many varied processors. AMD did this for the longest time.

    Considering that there is little significant change in actual capability, (mostly power savings) perhaps Intel would sell more if they brought the Haswell technology to the 1156 socket so more could have used it?

    Upgrading for the sake of upgrading is a VERY limited market these days.

    1. Steve Brooks

      Re: How about "Haswell" on LGA 1156 instead of another new socket?

      Actually from what I have heard the new CPU's need special low power support in the chipset and BIOS, so a new motherboard would be required anyway. Sure they could make it an LGA 1156, but all that would achieve is to allow people to stuff the CPU into boards without the low power features and BIOS and thereby fry the CPU, so it makes sense, even if it is annoying.

    2. Steve Todd
      Stop

      Re: How about "Haswell" on LGA 1156 instead of another new socket?

      The new CPU moves voltage regulation on chip as part of its drive towards lower power and less support components. You'd pretty much HAVE to have a new socket if you do that.

  7. BornToWin

    Close but no cigar

    Haswell is actually quite a disappointment from the CPU aspect. The GPU section is a nice performance bump but the CPU gained almost nothing. With the absurd Intel pricing these are going to be a tough sell with AMD's APUs being superior for portable devices at all power and price levels.

  8. Jamie Jones Silver badge
    Happy

    I like what you've done there....

    "biggest 'generational leap'"

    ...alongside a picture of "Old Spice" !

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Ultrabooks

    “Two years ago we talked about reinventing [the notebook] with the ultrabook.....” he said.

    And how is that going?

  10. xrix

    That was Halliwell not Haswell! Learn your damned Spice Girls!

  11. asdf

    hmm

    Wake me when Intel's profits are actually increasing again. And to think Intel sold off their StrongARM division just as the mobility wave was forming in the mid 2000s. 2nd generation upper management is rarely as good as the founders.

    Need a yawn icon badly.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Saturation + real economic slowing down, so computing purchases slowing & street wise now

    The PC market is probably a lot nearer saturation and my i7 920 Windows 7 64-bit PC should last a while; my has, and I'm loath to dump 24GB of RAM just to move to a different RAM banking etc.

    I don't even need my PC for storage now that I'm using low power mobos to build multi-TB FreeNAS boxen, I have some VMs using the FreeNAS as live storage, and have tablets too, so it'll probably be at least a year or two before I need to replace my main PC innards again.

    What would attract me is some seriously beefy 64-bit ARM mobos and 64-bit OS support, because they will undercut expensive Intel and less expensive AMD possibly by a serious margin! Intel graphics is a joke; my low end AMD FM1 CPU in my NAS has better graphics than most Intel CPUs, and was much better value.

  13. Herby
    Happy

    But "1 in 2"...

    Is Windows 8.1

    It all balances out.

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