Is John Hurt too obvious?
Matt Smith has announced he'll be handing over the keys to the Tardis at the end of this year, leaving Doctor Who fans plenty of time to speculate over just who will step into the Time Lord's shoes. Smith will bow out in a "spectacular" 2013 Christmas special, after four years as the 11th Doctor. He said: "Doctor Who has been …
I believe Mr Hurt was the 'unseen' Doctor - the one who saw to the destruction of the Daleks and caused the timelords to be lost in time/space. That is why he was locked away within the Doctor's memories: He did the unthinkable and so is the greatest shame of the Doctor.
So yes, he's a previous incarnation and that throws out the 12th Doctor concept: Matt Smith is the current incarnation but while the 12th to play the Doctor, he is the unspecified incarnation on the Doctor's life.
It's all timey-wimey, I'm sure.
"Matt Smith is the current incarnation but while the 12th to play the Doctor, he is the unspecified incarnation on the Doctor's life."
Correct. In some versions of the canon, the Doctor absorbed the regeneration energy of the Time Lords during the end of the Time Wars and had passed through a large number of regenerations before reappearing in the current series (there's also the issue of one villain in earlier series being an older, eviller incarnation of the Doctor.)
In any case, it's been stated that the John Hurt regeneration _didn't_ do what he did in the name of the Doctor. His introduction is a good hint about where the series is likely to go though.
I only get into Doctor Who recently but have begun to get more familiar with the inner plots and so on of one of the most intricate television series still to air.
To describe John Hurt as a previous "Doctor," and given the increased focus on the Doctor himself (and his past) during Matt Smith's time ("The Pandorica Opens" and "The Name of the Doctor", for starters), I would imagine Series 8 (which will now include the 11th official Regeneration) is going to start getting seriously edgy. I have to wonder if the Doctor won't just end up crossing his own timeline (again) but end up ENTANGLED in it (as in, given no choice but to crisscross it again and again). That would make for a plot where practically anything goes. Any bets?
If he’s got the stamina, I think Bill Nighy would make a great Doctor. I think we need an ‘older’ Doctor next time round - Matt Smith was too boyish and petite. They might as well have cast a sperm in the role.
If Nighy could bring the same intensity and vibrancy to the role as he did for Victor (a vampire) in the Underworld films, it could make the Doctor a darker, more fearsome character. As opposed to the rather soppy, underwhelming portrayal by Matt Smith.
Quite. As a wise, deep-thinking but eccentric 900 year-old Time Lord he would make a very good spoilt teenage brat on a moronic American family sitcom. Throw in the ludicrous 'prepubertal' Pond and the show became totally unwatchable for me. I had hopes for Clara as she seemed interesting, but has so far acted like Pond playing the Cheshire Cat. The recent sighting of the truly wondrous Mrs Who has persuaded me to watch again; perhaps she will return now that her husband's Babbling Teenage American Idiot phase is finally over. Whatever replaces this please let it be a Doctor with depth and edge and intellect. And properly eccentric rather than just fatuous.
Or has this whole period been a sort of 450 year flashback to the Time Lord's Medallion-Man Mid-Life Crisis, and I have completely missed the subtlety of it?
I for one would look forward to Mr. Hurt as the doctor. I envisage 3 paths. 'Alien - Kane', 12th Time Lord is the thing that bursts out, starts killing all civilisation with the Tardis, even the Dalek turn into refugees, that enter an alliance with the humans. 'V for Vendetta - Sutler', comes to Earth takes over the 3rd Reich, leads it to victory, humans then spread through the galaxy, 'purifying' it in a reign of tyranny, not unlike 'In a mirror, darkly – Enterprise’. Last but not least, '1984 Winston' captured and brainwashed by Ingsoc, isn’t sure if he’s with the Daleks or against them, ends up wiping out humanity with them, realises this to be a mistake, gets rid of Dalek’s and Cybermen too, more atonement and just making sure. Ends up sad and lonely, shoots self, expressing love for Big Brother.
I've had this conversation before, in a pub after several beers.
If you want a gritty, "gets sh1t done" Doctor, I elect Philip Glenister (aka Gene Hunt). Despite the mass hilarity which ensued, the idea coincides with an older, tougher Doctor with fewer "emo" issues.
Also: the Tardis could become an Audi Quattro.
<<< Mine's the flame-retardant one.
I was gonna post 'Sean Pertwee' but as you beat me to it....
He'd make a superb gritty badass Doctor for sure, though I think he was offered the job around the tennant (maybe smith) selection time and wasn't up for it.
Anyway the bigwigs in production will want someone who can appeal to the yoof and won't want anyone getting duffed up by a gritty Pertwee (Tom Baker was the most physical Doctor IIRC and that was like 30+ years ago).
Grint and Tovey. Not Doctor material. Though nor was Sylvester McCoy...
As i recall, Romana could regenerate indefinitely and at will without problem, and did so for vanity's sake.
The Doctor also held the presidential post, complete with the scepter et al that the Master then stole in order to reset his regenerations (Dr Who and the Deadly Assassin was the story, I believe, or at least was part of the story chain). So even according to WHO lore, 13 and beyond is quite possible, and there is a very easy fudge to allow for Dr Who to continue regenerating for as long as the show is popular and still hold true to the old WHO lore.
Nevertheless, the Who lore puts twelve regenerations as the measuring stick for Time Lords. But due credit to good writing with intentional vagueness. Going back to "Trial of a Time Lord", I recall the Master describing the Valeyard as having formed somewhere between the Doctor's 12th and final incarnation (a misleading hint—cheeky, but I like it). There is a lot of hints and so on (some from the Doctor himself) that the Doctor's incarnation limit is somewhere greater than 12. But given the lore, I would think they're going to start flirting with the thought more and more as time passes: perhaps increasingly dropping clues and tidbits. I'm pretty sure such tidbits will be a draw for any serious fan.
Not quite. Romana was in the process of regeneration during that episode, so she had not yet completed the process, and was able to change. After a short period of time, she was "locked in" to her choice.
It's the same idea as a later episode, where the Doctor's hand is cut off right after he regenerates. He then claims that because he's within 24 hours of the regeneration, he is "lucky" and regrows the missing hand.
They're about to run into a real life time paradox problem. Way back when Colin Baker was The Doctor it was established that the 13th (last according to canon at the time) incarnation was every bit as evil as the Master. And that he'd been offered all the previous regenerations if he could convict Baker in Trial of a Time Lord.
Not that this sort of problem is exactly new. After all, nobody could ever possibly need more than 640KB of memory on a computer, or even more than a couple dozen computers in the whole world. And after their brilliant idea of regeneration to bring in a new actor, who could possibly need another 11 actors for the role?
@Tom 13: Going back to "Trial of a Time Lord", I wish to clarify that scene. You're describing the Valeyard, which according to the Master was "an amalgamation" of the darkest aspects of the Doctor's nature. It's not so much an incarnation of the Doctor but rather some kind of offshoot (like the Doctor clone produced from the severed hand). Furthermore, the Master's description of the Valeyard's genesis was left very subtly vague: "somewhere between your 12th and final incarnations." Note there was no number given to the "final" incarnation. The regeneration to Twelve simply means the Valeyard's genesis could emerge at any time beyond that point, though I would think for the sake of canon continuity the question of his origins will be addressed sooner rather than later: if not in this incarnation then in the next one.
12 regenerations, i,e. 13 'lives' apparently. That said, I'm sure they'll find time paradox loopholes and magical gadgets to reset ...
My memory is hazy on the early series, but wasn't one of the Doctor's regenerations stolen by the Master, and another, future, regeneration some evil entity?
thanks for saying that - I thought it was just me that thought that.
Back in the 70s/80s, wasn't the reason given for the Masters terrifying appearance (the story where the Doctor goes back to Gallifrey to run for president) that he had forced regenerations, and gone beyond his 12th ?
Presumably the 12-limit regeneration will go the way of the prime directive ....
It's not a hard limit anyway. Go back to The Five Doctors and the Timelords were going to give The Master a new "set" of regenerations.
Also the "barkers" have long debated the meaning of the mind battle sequence in The Brain Of Morbius. Are the faces shown pre-Hartnell regenerations or previous regenerations of Morbius? It's unclear and used to get the fanboys quite worked up on Usenet!
Black female Doctor. Why don't we go with a disability and non-heterosexual too and get all the minorities covered off in one go?
Trying to do too many changes in one go might appease the Politically Correct brigade (so fits Auntie Beeb well, I suppose) but from a storyline perspective, sounds a bit contrived - change for changes sake is not always a good thing.
There have been a number of black males been mentioned, none of which I would have a problem with, in the case of Ashley Walters (who will always been known as Asher D to me) he has ticked all the boxes in terms of British actor, Grange Hill, the Bill, a couple of big parts in small films and small parts in big films as well as doing Shakespeare on stage, So I think he fits the bill quite well, he can act and my bring a bit of ‘grit’ to the doctor (as long as they don’t turn him into a cockney “gansta” as he has been cast as before).
I have no issue with him being black, but for some reason a women is a push, after all that would raise all sorts of questions around River Song.
As for an American… No.
Agreed! The ONE thing that will cause me to immediately cease watching is if Billie Piper is the new Doctor. As much as I absolutely despised whiny Adric, I'd rather see Matthew Waterhouse as the new Doctor than Piper. And, just to be perfectly clear, I really do NOT want to see Waterhouse on the show, in ANY sort of recurring role.
Ditto Olivia Coleman, for similar reasons. But the role going female could have some plot interest, with a decent capable actress filling it. But then no doubt it'd end up paired with some gung-ho male companion to ruin things, after the obligatory "awkward moment" with River Song (hopefully without quite as much Russell Davies-style overplaying it).
Some good suggestions flying around (again), Sean Pertwee and Idris Elba would both make for a nice change of pace after the "excentric loons" of Smith and Tennant. Back more towards the more somber playing of Ecclestone and indeed the original character from the beginning (Hartnell).
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It's also a shame that they've made both David Thewless and Richard E Grant such focal characters in the recent past, as both would be very good in the main role (see Grant's audio/radio work in the role for example). Not to say that it's a no-go to still use them (after all Colin Baker was a one-off character in one of the episodes before taking the main role - not that he was much good in it in either case).
It'd also be nice if they stopped re-re-reusing the plot cliche about the companion being someone "special" to the universe and reality (as almost all of the recent ones seem to have been, except Martha) and just have them go back to being assistant/plot explanation foil/action stunt double.
Also are we now probably due an episode with the next last-last-last-last-last Dalek, another plot that's been recycled more than the Doctor has.
They could use anyone they wanted as the next doctor, no matter whatever the actor's previous history in the series. The precedent in series lore is a bit sketchy but is there.
Back in the 60s, they wanted Lala Ward to take over Romana, even though she had a major part in the previous series. She regenerates, and despite everything that has happened before or since, basically chose her new appearance.
That suggests that the Doctor could do the same if the writers wanted him to, they'd just need to provide an in-universe reason for him to do it, since up to now, as is his personality, he tends to 'wing it'.
Yep - more of her please - she had great potential. I rather wished they'd built her up a bit more so they could hand the keys to the Tardis over to her when the Doctor finally had it 12 regenerations, though part of the depth of him has always been his great age and tortured past so she'd need something to give her gravitas - could be a fun reboot though.
Well, the show's writers have already re-written the whole of Dr Who's backstory to crowbar her character into his 'timestream' - might as well go the whole hog and have her as him anyway.
Perhaps she can simultaneously be the master as well? Nothing they could do would make less sense than the current plots.
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Really Eadon, you managed to get in an M$ bashing, Linux-loving post on a Doctor Who story?
Windows obsession aside (me thinks thou doth protest too much, like a secretly gay priest denouncing homosexuality), bravo for shoehorning that in though, wouldn't have though it possible!
Back to the matter at hand, anyone but Billie Piper, Since her teeth started trying to escape her face, I just want to smack her every time she is on TV.
BILLIE PIPER MASSIVE TEETH FAIL
I remember thinking a couple of years ago that Matt Smith as Dr Who and Benedict Cumberbatch as Sherlock Holmes could very well have been cast the other way round; I'd like to see Cumberbatch as the Doctor, even if it was a one-off. I guess it would be harder to have Holmes 'regenerate' as Matt Smith, though...
If we're speculating wildy, I reckon David Tennant suddenly decided he'd fancy another spin. He's in the 50th anniversary special, so I'm sure we can juggle something.
Otherwise, I'd like to see a contrasting character - someone older, if they can cope with the scedule. Iain Glenn?
I'm afraid Dr "Centre of the Universe" is the construct of the professional fanfic authors that have been doing the writing since the programme was restarted, rather than the actors in place.
I once read an author saying that he never let himself write a character he liked, because that always ended up with them becoming an unrealistic central focal point of absolutely everything.
Quad erat demonstradem.
A Dalek Doctor
A team of multi-ethnic Doctors
A whole series of evil Doctor
Doctor Who Nights
Aquatic Doctor who doesn't travel through time but through gravy instead
A Lord of Dance
Homeopathic Doctor (pico-episodes only)
Sexist-letch from the 70s Carry On Doctor
Might be more fun than the last few series to be honest
Think about it. If they want a regeneration in the Xmas special then they'll have to start filming by July at the latest. If we're not going to see the 12th Doctor until Series 8, and they want that in April 2014, then they'll have to start filming in Sept this year at the latest. They'll have to announce the 12th Doctor before then, or it'll leak out from fans watching location filming.
The Public announcement of Matt leaving may have just happened, but the BBC will have known about it for months, in order to prepare for Series 8. The 12th Doctor will already have been auditioned and cast, probably way back in January. Matt Smith auditioned and got the role at least 6 months before it was announced in January 2009.
Trust me. The 12th Doctor is already out there, unable to tell anyone he (or she) has got the job.
The floppy haired ****wit is taking an early bath... Hydrochloric acid would be favourite...
The less said about twerp & twerp-ette the better. Usually I find redheads sexy but shes dimmer than the sidelights on an Austin Cambridge. Telescopes make things big; who knew? The highlight was the well deserved gut shooting scene, but why stop at just one? (one magazine maybe, after all its the BBC budget).
The new sidekick has major possibilities - I think the trope is mother (cave) bear. Kinda like River 'lookee ma, I took out a whole division' Tam without the 'now I feel like Jimmy Saville' guilt..
Hurt & Barrowman - the dynamic that launched a thousand fanfics...
Docs daughter & Riversong - so good it just has to be fattening. I seem to remember somewhere that Tardis are keyed genetically to their operators - "when it get confused it just runs back to momma". The rest is very happy bi-barian teen hordes.. not to mention all those strange people who search movie deaths on youtube... You can off her six ways to sunday and she'll still come back hotter than shami kebab diablo..
With enthusiasm flagging over the quality this season and BBC seem to be getting weary of the show judging by their lack of enthusiasm for the 50th anniversary or even producing an 8th series (still no sign of episodes going into production and The Mill have quit doing effects, so what chance of episodes any time before the end of 2014?), I suspect a reboot or big reset button at least and we could be looking at a different approach to the show. Maybe not even a 12th (13th if you count Hurt) Doctor. Maybe a total reboot back to the 1st. Maybe not a regeneration as we know it, or maybe jump back and do the time war. Could even just kill The Doctor and launch a new series of adventures following another character (gives them more excuse to go with a female obviously).
Though, I'd still go with Hugh, but he'd cost too much and is too well known.
How do you know there's no sign of Series 8 yet? Just because they're not filming yet doesn't mean it's not on the way. Series 5 was filmed in Sept 2009 and subsequently broadcast in April 2010. Plenty of time for an April 2014 start. The Christmas special has yet to be filmed. Expect that to start around July this year.
And whose enthusiasm is flagging for the series exactly? Final viewer ratings are on a par with Series 2, 3, 5 & 6, and as for the 50th...an Anniversary special and the docudrama "An Adventure In TIme & Space"?
Perhaps they should do what Have I got news for you and Buzzcocks did when they couldn't get a permanent host and just have a different Doctor each week, it could throw up some interesting possibilities...
Exterior shot of Tardis.
A mass of white hair pops out.
"err I say I'm the Mayor of Lon... err err sorry no I'm not, I'm that other fellow, err What, no, Whether, whence err Who, that's the chap I'm Mr Who."
How about Simon Callow? (No not Simon Cowell - this guy http://www.simoncallow.com/) Although possibly not quite physically fit enough; he definitely has the acting creds.
If they want a nod to the non-caucasian background, how about Alexander Siddiq; he did really well in a number of different films and he at least has the right accent.
Or why not go the whole hog and offer it to Omid Djalili? Now he really could play the part!
Just looked up Siddiq on IMDB for the hell of it, as I reckon he'd be a good candidate for the job:
Birth Name: Siddig El Tahir El Fadil El Siddig Abderahman Mohammed Ahmed Abdel Karim El Mahdi
I couldn't read the rest, the surreal contrast there reduced me to incoherent giggling.
It is very hard to clean in its current manifestation, and there are some serious health and safety issues that need sorting out, not to mention the lack of step-free access to the controls(*)
(* Yes, I know, that was the primary defence against Daleks taking control of it but apparently they can fly now (the very thought... ridiculous!)
I liked the car radiator expansion bottle in the previous version of the interior. I especially liked the way the water level remained perfectly flat whilst the actors flung themselves around the set as the Tardis was supposedly hurled around, but visibly danced whenever Matt banged on the controls a bit too energetically. :-)
Made me all nostalgic for the wobbly sets of yore.
glad he's going he's starting to become Sylvester McCoy'ish, the whole show is getting a little pathetic. I wish they'd bring back the old format with episodes running over several weeks.
A few doctors ago my brother and law had my wife going for ages that the new Dr was going to be Joe Pasquale!
Ahhhh I can see it now ... Doctor "Gene Hunt" striding into the lair of the Cybermen, sitting down on a chair with his feet up on the console and saying to the Cyberleader ...
"Cup of tea, sugar, plenty of milk and my biscuit of choice is the garibaldi."
His trusty assistant Miss Bollinger Knickers by his side.
Fire up the TARDIS!
Scene: the current Doctor is dying, and need to regenerate.
Slowly, he blurs out.
Cut to the face of his current traveling companion(s), as their concern shifts rapidly to horror.
Cut to the new Doctor - Larry the Cable Guy
"Git 'er done!"
Smash cut - interior, TARDIS, the Doctor's bedroom.
The current Doctor sits bolt upright, hyperventilating. He leaps from the bed and runs to a mirror.
"Thank Rassilon - it was just a dream."
(if they REALLY wanted to be evil, maintain the charade just long enough to really work up a lather among the faithful.)
since the original doctor, including some shows that have now been lost. I have seen the props evolve from egg whisks and plungers to expensive CGI. I have seen Daleks that couldn't even go up stairs learn how to levitate.
I have always enjoyed the show, and in my view it has improved with age. Hopefully it will be around long after I'm gone. As for who the next doctor will be, well, the choices to date have worked out, so I'm sure I shall not be disappointed.
...since we're suggesting Blackadder alums (including Steven Fry and Brian Blessed), why not go with a cunning plan, and give the spot to the man, himself: Rowan Atkinson as the Doctor.
Although, now that I think of it, Tony Robinson might be fun in the role, as well.
Donna rather annoyed me right up until she became Doctor Donna. She grew through her time with the Doctor until she was at least tolerable (as was intended I'm sure), but the sudden emergence of a super genius level IQ made her suddenly sexy. And then she went back being to the same loud, obnoxious moron that she was when we first saw her and all I could think was "What a waste".
The new should be a contrast with the old, so I like the idea of replacing Smith with Sean Pertwee. Plus, instead of jelly babies, "Sausages!"
John Hurt is too old I think, but if they handled the regeneration by having him burst out of Smith's chest, I'd watch anyway.
They need to find another Tom Baker. Not similar to him, but different like he was different. Hire an alien to play an alien.
Both David Tennant's and Matt Smith's incarnations were disappointed by the lack of ginger hair. Either Simon Pegg or Damian Lewis would fit the role perfectly.
They go with Ron Weasel, and I'll just give up on the series. The last Doctor needs maturity, not a face full of zits.
The Doctor actually has a strong eccentric English gent stereotype so much as I'd like to see the new actor challenge race and gender stereotypes it'll be a white male. It'll also be someone known but not that famous so the vast majority of names listed here will not be in the running (apart from Zoidberg obviously).
Rather than Cumberbatch or Freeman who will both cost too much how about Andrew Scott, who played Moriarty in the recent BBC remake?
The BBC would be unlikely to cast an 'A' list Hollywood actor budget constraints would rule that out, if Benedict Comberbatch had not taken the studio shilling I would have given him short odds , he has that idiosyncracy in spades. I think for my money David Threlfall would be by far the most obvious choice he has a great track record, can go the distance in a series (Butterflies, Shameless,Men of the World,Paradise Postponed,The Life and Adventures of Nicholas Nickleby)
As a kid growing up watching Dr Who, I wanted to be an actor portraying the Doctor. But since I have never acted professionally, and I'm am crippled for the role by being an American, (then again they've had Scotsmen, is it too much of a stretch?)
The serious suggestion is David McCallum.
...isn't it time to give the lead role some brawn, ie Ray Winstone? It's about time some of the Doctor's enemies ended up in A&E having a sonic screwdriver removed from where the sun don't shine. (Question for the dedicated fans here - do cybermen have arseholes?)
But failing that, I upvote your Miranda Richardson and raise you a Ben Zephenia.
Just a minute, it's Wednesday I should be working...
Well, anything has to be an improvement over the scripts for this season, that's for sure. About the only episode I enjoyed was "The Crimson Horror", and that's only because they played it for laughs.
Did anyone else think that "Nightmare in Silver" felt like a recycled Star Trek episode ? Change "Doctor" to "Picard", "TARDIS" to "Enterprise", "Cybermen" to "Borg", "Cyber Planner" to "Locutus" and "Chess Game" to "Geometric Puzzle" - et voila, you've got "The Best of Both Worlds", only with fewer photon torpedoes and tractor beams - did anyone notice that the Cyber Gun even sounded like a phaser when Clara pulled the trigger ?
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