Not cool, Adobe: Give the Ninite guys a job, not the middle finger Adobe wants the ability to easily roll out Flash updates removed from Ninite, the sysadmin Swiss army knife. I'm going to explain why this is a terrible thing. First, though, I would like to discuss the real-world practical uses of products such as Ninite. Ninite is used by systems administrators and ordinary folk alike to …
In pyrotechnics a flash is something that blows up with a visible and sometimes audible result. Is this what Adobe want with their idea of 'flash' .
I totally agree that their 'product life cycle management' is total rubbish and worthy of the Financial Service Industry. The bundling of cr*pw*re with updates should be outlawed by law.
(Thought, can we get apple to patent the stupid idea of sending out cr*pw*re with patches, so that it gets blocked that way. Then people would applaud not mock apple's patent activity.)
Adobe's products are a security nightmare. Reader, Flash and Air are - alongside Oracle's Java browser plugin - the screen door through which the raw unfiltered sewage of the internet oozes into the homes of netizens. These products are awful, the security is worse and the management of them over the years beggars belief.
This sums it up best.
In pyrotechnics a Flash is something that occurs after the damage has been done.
Let him. When greed + copyright clashes with privacy + information security, I vote that greed + copyright shouldn't be the one to win. Those who would blithely sacrifice the freedoms of others whilst diminishing the security of all in order to eek out a few fractions of a point of margin should be tarred, feathered and run into the oceans their brethren polluted beyond usefulness.
As a totally blind Geek, Adobe's site is a nightmare to navigate via Screen Reader Environment (SRE) such as Jaws by Freedom Scientific or NVDA.
This issue is only compounded by Adobe's attempts to foist bundled crapware with the download, as I have to make Jaws read the page *twice* to make sure Adobe hasn't "helpfully included" anything.
Once I've finally managed to get Adobe to understand that all I want is the update, then hit the download link, it's a crapshoot if it ever actually initiates the download.
There's no audio "blip" to tell me I've got a Security Notification & need to Alt+N to the Notification Toolbar to accept the download, Control+J doesn't report any files being downloaded, and UAC hasn't screamed for attention, so I'm left scratching my head wondering if I've actually activated the damned link.
Hit it again, and this time, dispite still no audio cues to the contrary, it gives me the "File Complete" ding to say it's done?
WTF? Control+J, and lo & behold, it shows the Adobe installer as having finished downloading.
When did it get there, because IE didn't seem to think it important enough to announce...
*Sigh*
Anyway, after getting the file, then using the Properties to Unblock it, and acknowledging UAC whining about "Not trusting unknown sources on the internet" (If only it knew!), the updater finally starts...
Only to present a User Interface that, to put it quite bluntly, deserves to have everyone at Adobe nailed to a tree limb & used as a Public Pinata.
Unmarked & unlabeled buttons, Required Check Boxes that don't get read by the SRE, elements the SRE can't find much less tell me about, and absolutely *ZERO* assistance from Adobe on the matter.
IF I manage to get it to actually install the update, then it "helpfully" launches a website wanting to know how I feel about the experience.
Really? You do *NOT* want to know how I really feel, because it involves Industrial grade Nail Guns, trees, & electrified-barbed-wire-wrapped-baseball-bats applied repeatedly to your genitals.
Then Ninite steps up to the plate.
The site is a *joy* to navigate, everything is properly labeled & identified, there's no wondering "WTF does this bit do?", the check boxes for the files I want are concise, and when I click that download link, It Just Works.
The file is small, I don't have to Unblock it (UAC doesn't think it's malware? BAH HAhahahaha) and it does what it fekkin says it'll do.
"Install the latest Adobe? Ok, hold on... downloading... done. Applying... done. Anything else with that today, or can I remove myself from memory, Sir?"
I've already uninstalled Java because of all the exploits it has.
I've uninstalled Adobe Reader for the same reason.
If HTML5 were more prevelant, Adobe Flash Player would get ripped out "With Extreme Prejudice", and Adobe would get a "STFU, GTFO, FOAD, & HAND" letter from me.
As it is, I'm stuck using Adobe's Flash Player, and it's about as Blind Accessable as a rabbid badger is friendly & cuddly.
At least you can *SEE* the crap it pulls.
The Blind/VisuallyImpaired have to rely on Adobe having the brains to properly design a UI that's Accessable such that a SRE stands a chance in hell of reading it to us.
Want to take a wild arsed guess as to how well Adobe's done that?
This. Or at least a few articles. I write software and web applications. I've had to make sure what I do can be used by people with red/green colour blindness and I also have to be careful it can be understood by people whose first language isn't English (most of our main customers are based in Germany and the Netherlands). It would be very useful to have some ideas of how to design things for people with little or no sight written by someone who understands what it's like and has a technical background.
My pseudonym at Gmail, and be sure to use "From The Register" in the subject so I don't auto-delete it as spam.
This goes for you or anyone else whom would like me to assist in getting an Accessable site created.
My HTML coding may not be up to snuff, but I can certainly let you know if $URL reads well from my POV.
Cheers.
I agree with Chris J - there is a lot to be learned from an articulate person with specific difficulties interacting with the technology. How about it, El Reg? 150+ upvotes say there is interest ... talk to this author and see if s/he is willing to do a few articles.
" As a totally blind Geek, Adobe's site is a nightmare to navigate via Screen Reader Environment (SRE) such as Jaws by Freedom Scientific or NVDA. "
Truth be told their website also sucks for those that can see it. I can only imagine the extra pain visited upon you.
Even to this very day they cannot make the effort to post static links to the latest Flash versions, a personal pet peeve. You are always sent to a browser / OS sniffing page where they decide what you need, never even entertaining the thought of someone going there on a different computer. There is a way to get the so-called offline installers after clicking around for a while, but it is needlessly obtuse. Sun / Oracle does a similarly bad job with Java as do most other high profile software vendors.
Ironically it is always the little guy, the really independent coders of all manner of drivers and utilities that make a nice effort for user-friendly distribution and pages that can be successfully bookmarked.
I must force myself to say something nice about Microsoft now. At least getting files from them is relatively straightforward, even if we must go through some bona fide checking through that WGA genuine checker and whatnot. Yeah, they sniff browsers and operating system and steer you into pages sometimes but I have always been able to load up on files for all architectures and versions from any computer I use.
So listen up Adobe. Everyone from Joe Schmo to Sourceforge to Microsoft itself does it better than you. Enough with the trialware and McAfee malware. Start acting professionally. And leave the good guys alone!
"Truth be told their website also sucks for those that can see it. I can only imagine the extra pain visited upon you."
It's actually quite easy. Close your eyes and have a go. No cheating!
(I never tried that myself but now I definitely will for the sites I manage!)
Jaws is a free download, & operates in a "40 Minute Mode" indefinitely.
It runs for 40 minutes, then you have to reboot to make it work again, but otherwise is the exact same file as the Registered version.
(You pay for it, give it the reg code, and it unlocks from the time limit.)
Give it a try, close your eyes, turn up the sound on your machine, and listen to Jaws read (your|any) site to you.
Places like the Register are nice because the Print link gives you a Printer Friendly version of the article as a single page, with the links at the end as plain text.
Other sites seem to think that "Print" means "launch your printer's dialog box trying to have it spit out a copy".
This is *NOT* cool, as I don't want an article if it's spread across 15 pages, filled with ads, in full colour, and ultimately ends up being less than a paragraph of actual, useable, readable text.
If you listen to the site, and can, purely by it's audio description, figure out how to navigate & get stuff done, then you've done it right.
However, if your site is the audio equivalent of a flashing, blinking, scrolling marquis, animated gif laden, midi-auto-playing, Geocities nightmare (*cough*Adobe*cough*), then do us all a favour & go nail your head to a tree...
*Chortle*
But Jaws is a *very* good tool to use to verify your layout is done nicely, that all the Screen Elements (check boxes, radio buttons, DropDownMenu's not auto-triggering on the first Item you've ArrowKey'd to, etc) done with full text descriptions, that all the images are properly labeled (Alt Text! Use It! And no names like "ZXYSP!2~*#_Blah(DonkeySnot).jpg" either!), and if you MUST use Flash, make *damned sure* the buttons for the controls have text labels.
"Unlabeled button one", "Unlabeled button two", "unlabeled button 9,457,181" do absolutely f4ing *NOTHING*, because I won't click on any of them without knowing what they're for, what they do, and why I should go anywhere near them...
So grab a copy of Jaws, run it across your site, and do what needs be done to make it Accessible.
If you're in America, then the American's with Disabilities Act may apply, but even if it doesn't or you're not in the States, it's still a damned good idea to do it anyway.
Any & all B/VI visitors will thank you profusely, and your HTML coding skills will get honed to a point where you'll be leagues ahead of your competition.
Adobe will, in fact, give you a plain EXE or MSI directly linked from a simple HTML page, with no bundled anything.
Annoyingly, if I gave you the direct link, they would sue me.
The only way to get it is to fill in the rediculous form at https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=distribution_form&pv=fp and get them to email you the link. Yes, I can barely believe it either.
Having to deal with it in an enterprise implementation is at least as bad. What I don't understand is why folks persist in using Adobe's products for Flash and PDF. Besides the dubious assertion that it cannot be updated by a third party (how do you think most large enterprises handle their updates?), they pump out updates too fast to evaluate without managing to fix the underlying issues. I switched to a non-Adobe PDF reader a while back. There are some non-Adobe Flash implementations out there, at least according to the interwebs. I am going to have a go with them.
If this approach would become more acceptable in corporate environments, life would be good.
Yes, I was shocked that Adobe tried to stick me with McAfee when I updated. Presumably part of the aim of updates is to improve security and performance, which does not in my book include stuffing unrelated, unwanted, material onto my hard disk.
In short, Adobe products should be regarded as potential malware until they clean up their act.
As for McAfee -- I guess the only way they can get their products to be used is by paying other people to sneak it onto our computers. Hardly a recommendation.
"Reader, Flash and Air are - alongside Oracle's Java browser plugin - the screen door through which the raw unfiltered sewage of the internet oozes into the homes of netizens. These products are awful, the security is worse and the management of them over the years beggars belief."
I have never seen this sentiment better expressed.
"Reader, Flash and Air are - alongside Oracle's Java browser plugin - the screen door through which the raw unfiltered sewage of the internet oozes into the homes of netizens. These products are awful, the security is worse and the management of them over the years beggars belief."
I have never seen this sentiment better expressed.
I second that.
In addition, Adobe uses another trick to make security harder than it needs to be: it uses its own downloader. When you download Adobe products, you often don't actually get the product, but only a downloader - which means that the software you screen and virus check is not the software that actually does the job post install.
I download the small downloader-installer and then make a copy of it, and run the copy. So far, it isn't smart enough to find and delete both copies of itself.
I g et prompted each time with a dialog to control Flash's auto-update behaviour that always changes my previous choice of "Never" back to "Annoying". Oh, so now you -want- to update Flash after all, Robert? Well, here's how you -should- do it. I -think- it doesn't auto-set to silent download at any time, which would be "Outrageous". Anyway, it didn't really seem to work before, it only popped up a "Download the new Flash" dialog box when I rebooted - by which time I'd probably already done it.
On most of my own PCs, I install Flash for Internet Explorer (ActiveX), then mostly never use Internet Explorer.
As soon as the program is completed in the download, open File Explorer & find the file.
Rename it to something intelligent & identifiable ("Adobe Flash Updater, 2013-05-02") and make a copy to an Archive folder/drive.
This allows you to run it again from another computer, or from the same one at a later time, and not have to download the downloader again.
The next time you go to get an Adobe update manually, check the file sizes on the file you've previously downloaded, & the one you've just received.
If they're the exact same size, chances are they're the exact same file.
Try running (a copy of) the old version's updater first, and see if it does the trick.
If so, delete the recent one, and call it a day.
If it doesn't update to the most recent version, then go ahead & repeat the Rename+Archive+Run cycle on the new updater.
You'll always have a copy of the latest, can apply them when *you* want (versus Adobe trying to ram them home), and may save yourself a headache or two in the long run.
I've been doing this kind of thing for years (*cough*Decades*Cough*) and am always amazed, annoyed, & smug that a program deletes itself.
What if it didn't install correctly? What if it corrupted something & I need to re-run the installer? What if I don't feel like spending *ANOTHER* day & a half grabbing a ~10Mb file from your server in Elbonia over your evidentialy sub-Dial-Up speeds on a flaky POTS line in stormy weather?
So, yeah, grab a copy, Archive it, *then* run it.
Sure, you quickly end up realizing you're another Program PackRat, but nobody taunts you anymore when you've got something The Internet Archive or OldVersion *doesn't*.
(Makes a comical cheeks puffed out, tongue stuck out, HappyHootyMonkeyNoises face.)
Firefox automatically disables older versions of flash. So you don't get flash cookies, or annoying flash adverts. When it is disabled you get a greyed out window where it would have been. If you actually do want to use it, you click on the bit you want to load and allow flash to run in that one instance. Seems to work, and hopefully I wont allow it to run anything that will cause a security risk. Still have to update occasionally though, when it stops loading what you want.
Now I know. It took almost as long to Install Flash on a new build yesterday from Adobe as it did to install the dozen or so applications I pulled in from Ninite.
The best thing the web could do is to ban the sneaky inclusion of software that isn't specifically requested with a single install/download.
On another note my other half had to (kinda) buy the latest version of Photoshop CS6 (whatever) or lose 'the right to upgrade' and have to pay quadruple later if so.
Her comment when it arrived in the post yesterday (after a big sigh) was "I remember a time when I used to look forward to my new Adobe software arriving but now I feel like I'm paying money for rape!"
A few years ago I had the misfortune to have to deploy the entire Adobe suite to a small design studio of 12 people. That's 12 people, 8 pieces of software, each of which had a 24 (or so) digit key to type in.
To make the job much more interesting, Adobe didn't bother to indicate which of the 96 keys was to be entered into which product. That's right - all I was given was a list of 96 keys and a couple of these were upgrade keys.
I rang the fuckers up and explained, carefully, why pirating their shit is such a good idea compared to trying to do it legally.
I don't trust Google for privacy reasons but I do trust them with vague competence at updating software so I have uninstalled system Flash and if there is a site that needs it that I really want I copy the link in Firefox and paste into Chrome.
I only use Reader annually for filling in my tax form and then delete it, there are plenty of other PDF readers out there.
Adobe has become an embarrassment to the software industry with their poor security, crappy update practices and now this attack on someone trying to clean up their mess.
"Adobe has become an embarrassment to the software industry with their poor security, crappy update practices"
I must say that there's a swampful of other contenders for the honour of "Most embarassingly crap software company", and Electronic Arts appear to have actually won this by public acclaim in the US.
Until our gormless law makers start work to heal the festering sore of "licence agreements" and their ilk, second rate software will continue to exist, continue to be built, and continue to make money for third rate companies like Adobe (and Microsoft). I can appreciate that software companies can't guarantee that their software will always work for my particular requirements, but the law should require them to fix security and functionality flaws, accessibility issues of poor design (referred to in Shadow Systems brillant post) should be legally required to be fixed. In fact I'd guess there are laws on that last one already, but nobody enforces them, even though we have a quango or two paid good money to do just that (like the useless Equality & Human Rights Commission, who have a £27m a year budget).
> the software giant's updater [...] is a bug-ridden example of the unfathomable number of methods by which an application can crash.
It's also modal so you can't do anything useful whilst it's fucking up.
Oracle are guilty of the same; they added a T&C tick box to their Java download pages. This had the side effect of buggering up Linux update mechanisms (apt / yum / portage) and turning the Java update process into an assault course for anyone running a headless server.
What I can't fully understand is why companies do this; someone is offering to save Adobe / Oracle / whoever time and money by doing the donkey work for them, but they act like dicks instead.
Adobe get kickbacks from Intel for bundling McAfee AntiVirus with Flash, Oracle get kickbacks from Ask for bundling their toolbar. I'm sure one of them tries to bundle Chrome as well. If Ninite are allowed to install without offering the prompt, Adobe and Oracle don't get their kickbacks.
I'm a developer rather than an admin, too, but for a while now ninite has been my first port of call for any new (or rebuilt) PC. Well, second, after installing Total Commander.
Only complaint with Ninite is they still haven't added TC.
..and looking at the rest of this thread, it's great to see that I'm not alone in hurling verbal abuse when the Flash updater ignores my choices from last time and starts trying to install shit I have neither the need for nor the desire to have, unless I keep telling it not to.
Is their refusal to release a corporate level distribution platform like Microsoft's WSUS.
I have 250 users in London (alone) and I don't want 250 of them running an update on Flash, Shockwave and Adobe Reader every time a patch comes out.
If Adobe actually stopped mucking around and released a full domain integrated, O/S aware corporate hub then I'd be happy.
That and of course I don't want CHROME or MCAFEE bundled with my updates.
Personally if I could ban FLASH from my environment I would, but too many sites still demand it; and shockwave gets used in corporate training platforms still.
Apparently there is a way to bundle third-party applications in a way that WSUS can consume: see http://wsuspackagepublisher.codeplex.com/
Microsoft have not bothered to make it possible to update third-party applications through Windows Update because the vendors all want to have control over the updating experience, and won't produce proper MSI installers that actually use Windows Installer properly (rather than just wrapping a script, for example). Windows Update does support driver updates, but when did you last see a timely update for your graphics card on WU? Never, because nVidia and ATI insist on shovelling additional control panels and other shovelware along with the driver, and don't package the install properly.
"...vendors all want to have control over the updating experience, and won't produce proper MSI installers that actually use Windows Installer properly..."
*splutter* Have you tried to use the MSI installer "properly"? I'm not sure even Microsoft use it "properly".
ThankYouThankYouThankYouThankYou.
Consider yourself hugged, given a box of Girl Scout Cookies, and a $RandomFurryCuddlyCritter in gratitude.
(Please be sure to verify that you're not petting the cookies & about to eat the critter... the Cookies *hate* that!)
*Grin*
Adobe... developing Sanity?
*Chuckle*
ADOBE? ... Developing *Sanity*?
*Snorffle*
-=>ADOBE<=- developing _Sanity_?
*Falls on the floor, clutching ribs, howling in pained laughter, unable to breathe, and dies laughing*
Oh my!
You, Sir, should write comedy for a living.
*Wry smirk*
Some Linux distros have been doing this for years, the most obvious example being Umbongo's flashplugin-installer package, which triggers a download from Adobe, too.
Hopefully, they are less likely to try and take "action" there, as they have announced they are ceasing support for Linux flash, and they wee never able to bundle Macafee crapware with it in the first place...
(Also, ugh, Flash)
Adobe's products are a security nightmare.
Adobe's products are a nightmare, Oracle's products are a nightmare, Microsoft's products are a nightmare. And yes, even CentOS can be a nightmare in the wrong hands.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Stop complaining about the weather and start doing something about it.
Yes - it goes with the title of SysAdmin...
A good SysAdmin knows:
- that all hardware sucks
- the amount of hardware suckage is dependent upon both vendor and model as some hardware sucks slightly less than others.
- all software sucks more than hardware.
- some software sucks significantly more than other software.
- carefully combining hardware and software may allow you to create an environment that only sucks a little. This usually requires a careful combination of design, bribery, threats and wet work to achieve.
At present, Adobe and Oracle Java software have the annoying combination of being required for many tasks and having the ability to suck a large bowling ball through a very narrow hose...
This would be much more relevant if the leading article on the page isn't from *Two Thousand One*.
I'm sorry if I didn't read far enough to make a different evaluation, but I've got too much else to do than try & sift through a pile of digital dust to find any "gold nuggets" that will turn out to be mere pyrite.
*Smiles, shrugs*
Article: "It certainly is possible Adobe had a solid, logical reason for its request."
Of course they have a solid, logical reason. They're greedy and they like being given money from McAfee... end of story.
As you say yourself, if people start using Ninite, Adobe lose the ability to "bamboozle users with trial installer nagware in the pursuit of a few more coppers".
Adobe had a sane updater system that used updates that are easily distributed with the various enterprise software distribution systems. I know they have Adobe Software Update Server, but last time I tried that, it offered no obvious way to control which updates are installed (where I work, we test installs and updates thoroughly before we deploy them).
This is a problem endemic with Adobe's free products. They're crap, and they come with crap that you don't want.
But shell out for their headline apps, like Photoshop, Lightroom, Dreamweaver etc, and what you find are highly polished, highly capable products that do what they're meant to do, and with aplomb.
Adobe's business model seems to be a living parable for "you get what you pay for".
But just make sure you keep lapping up the largely cosmetic and not really necessary upgrades or they will financially ream you good!
"Oh you are a registered user of Version 4 but you say you didn't get the email from us* about the new version 6.5 that now means you can't upgrade now and have to buy the whole new suite even though you paid for full Version 4 only two years ago and 6.5 hasn't really any new features as such?"
Lovely people to do business with.
* They never actually sent an email
What needles me most about trial crapware is that it isn't smart enough to figure out you already have a fully licensed version of whatever it is running and installs it anyway, causing all sorts of trouble with the thing you actually paid for long before Adobe (et al) decided to direct your attention forcibly to whatever it is.
Actually, not-smart-enough software in general is making me mad right now, from the fucking Bonjour service (which I didn't want) iTunes (which I was forced to use) installed silently and which ISN'T designed with a double-the-wait backoff algorithm so that my log fills with hundreds of fucking Bonjour errors whenever I'm not on a network (the majority of my laptop use is network-free) to "free" wifi service from my cable provider that takes so long to connect and whose nodes are positioned so stupidly that its use on my branch of the Long Island Rail Road is all but doomed to failure.
And don't get me started about those fucktarded program traces java developers think are suitable for run-time user error messages. A till roll of mindless gibberjabber and if you are lucky the reason why whatever dimwit applet it is has crashed is anywhere to be found before the IO module truncates it (no, I don't allow java on my machine but I work in a Snoracle enterprise). Fucking new paradigm indeed.
The new fad for loading crapware because the option to *not* load it is hidden amongst the boilerplate contract for your soul should earn for its inventor a special place in hell after a long and painful demise suffered because the paperwork to waive hospital liability was so long he (or she) died before they found the "just do it" checkbox.
Where's the Tylenol?
>After all, it's not as though they are making any money selling the binary .....
...except for the 25c a pop they get from McAfee Toolbar - 4 million Ninite downloads is a $1million loss.
...also Ninite charge upto $185 a month for the pro version.....and profit from redistribution requires a license agreement.
I can't answer the question "Why deal with Adobe" but I *can* say with much justification that the design interface for the pre-Adobe Macromedia Flash product (4?) has the most intuitive drawing interface I've encountered before or since.
The other features are a study in ease-of-uptake too.
I needed a quick and simple animation to illustrate a stupid point. During a boring meeting it dawned on me I could maybe use Flash. I hadn't used it in about a decade or so, but it took me only about 45 minutes to relearn how to do motion tweening, draw the stage and actors and produce the animation, without a single use of the help pages. The process was not only painless, it was fun, except for having to use my lappy's trackpad.
My kid started drawing Anime pictures using Flash at a very early age. It just works well with humans.
The Macromedia interface designers Got It Right. Other drawing programs I've tried (and there have been many) have never been able to produce the same ease-of-use and intuitive drawing experience.
"Adobe's products are a security nightmare. Reader, Flash and Air are - alongside Oracle's Java browser plugin - the screen door through which the raw unfiltered sewage of the internet oozes into the homes of netizens"
And all this time I thought it was the hidden viruses in ads, free games and porn and lack of updated OS, firewalls and AV.
Silly me.
The viruses and other malware are the raw, unfiltered sewage. Firewalls are needed only because apps/operating systems aren't particularly secure...excepting that of late they've been a hell of a lot more secure than Adobe and Oracle's products.
In case you missed it, Windows et. al - while by no means perfect - aren't exactly swiss cheese anymore. Microsoft in particular has done a damn fine job of securing their operating system. Without Flash and Java installed, I'd cheerfully browse the net with a plugin-less Firefox on a Windows without anti-malware.
The issue is these vulnerable plugins that live in our browser and allow execution of code with elevated privileges when compromised. In fact, if they would code the damned things according to Microsoft's spec, this wouldn't even be possible to have happen.
The reason that the operating system allows Bad Things to happen is because it needs to maintain a level of backwards compatibility. The reason it needs to maintain a level of backwards compatibility is because fuckwads like Adobe and Oracle refuse to write applications that comply with modern design and security standards. The reason we're all vulnerable is because these same applications don't comply with modern design and security standards. They are the screen doors letting in the internet's filth.
MIcrosoft could make an operating system that had no backwards compatibility. Where you must comply with modern security and design principles. Then we collectively would freak out and wail that the insecure applications we are so very reliant on don't work.
Indeed, Microsoft did make such an operating system. It's called Windows RT. Frankly, given the raft of compromises on OSX lately, and the shocking number of Linux (or SSHd/HTTPd/BIND/etc, if you want to be an anal-retentive prick and try to say that "Linux is only the kernel, not the Distro") major vulnerabilities in the past several months, Windows RT is looking more and more like one of the most secure operating systems ever developed.
We still collectively don't use the damned thing for one simple reason: the shit we actually need to use doesn't run on Windows RT. And the shit we need to use is all broken, insecure and otherwise the cause of our woes.
Adobe and Oracle are like the worst kind of candy pimps. They keep you addicted to their crack so you can't go far, but they beat you senseless and refuse to change their ways, meaning you do nothing but dream of escape. I'm not saying Microsoft's been all that much better; Metro's "Fuck You, power users and people who require actual productivity" interface, that goddamned fucking ribbon, "Always On," Office 365 subscription bullying, licensing shenanigans and even DRM bullshit like "plays for sure" all come to mind. Microsoft is no saint, and I'll not defend the bastards on the whole.
But don't blame the OS. That's the part of this that actually works securely, assuming you are willing to configure it to be secure-only, and live without your self-harming crack.
Since you aren't - and I'm not either - why don't I leave you some resources that (while a little old) might prove valuable?
I hope that helps you maintain your poor security habits with minimal damage to yourself and the rest of the internet. Cheers!
So you claim that MS has mysteriously become secure ?What they currently peddle is not more than the WNT kernel with some new and expensive lipstick on the same old pig.
All your claims are not substantiated and I bet you just regurgitate some MS talking points of the MS public relations manager (or whatever they call their spinmasters) who handles you.
If Windows (whether it actually runs a window gui or not) were a proper operating system, it would simply not matter whether flash is secure or not. Flash would be contained in it's own little hellhole where it could not break out. MS has made sure there are dozens of openings in a typical windows machine to exploit and the RSA case is classic indeed ("Email with Excel attachment which contains Flash movie"). I don't think that there are sufficiently strong words to describe this extreme craziness. Maybe "acquiring AIDS by drinking random blood samples of random heroin addicts" would be the proper picture.
The world of commercial computer science from MS to Lockheed Martin a world of pimps and whores, nothing less.
Hi frankg. 2000 called and it wants its understanding of the NT kernel and base operating system elements back. Thanks.
If you'd actually READ my post, you'll note that I discuss that fact that there are tons of features in the OS that are NOT MANDATORY and I even tell you why. I also said that making them mandatory would make a much more secure operating system. Microsoft even makes it; I even discussed why.
The sandboxing you discuss exists. ASLR and about a dozen other technologies exist. The issue - and it's huge - is that they don't make using such technologies mandatory, which is what allows flash to get out. It isn't because the mechanisms to make a damned fine secure OS aren't there. It is because they made a BUSINESS decision not to cut all old software (and thus their entire paying customer base) off at the knees.
Take a Microsoft operating system which has been configured to require all of the security technologies as mandatory for every single application and I would be willing to put that up against anything else out there except possibly Wind River's stuff.
Your willing ignorance to suit your own prejudices not only does you a disservice, it brings a bad name to all who practice the IT arts. There are plenty of damned good reasons to piss on Microsoft's good name. This isn't one of them. Quit fighting battles from a decade ago; you're distracting from the battles that need to be fought here and now.
One of which is to get them to make the very technologies under discussion mandatory, but it is not remotely the only battle that needs fighting. We not need pissing and moaning about how "Insecure" Microsoft's technology is. That war was fought. We won. Can we please get you on the front lines where it counts?
Cheers.
What do you expect? Free Software isn't about how much it costs strictly speaking not even about the availability of the source code (software _written_ in machine code can be free). It is about what you can and cannot do with it. And Adobe is one of the few remaining strong examples for the route you go down with non-free software.
Firstly well done Adobe, congratulations I am truly impressed and I never expected you of all companies to be the ones to do it but you have finally about time convinced em that it's about time for me to ban all your bloatware from my managed systems for now and for good.
I was only put off the 100s of why can't we use Adobe Reader anymore, we're so used to it etc. now I'll look forward to the calls in order to discourage all home use too!
For years I have given you leeway and time to improve and change but that clearly isn't happening...
I mean seriously Adobe how is Reader 30-100Mb when FoxIT Reader is easily less than 5?
Why does all your software have more holes than a politician's expenses excuse?
Why don't your updater's work and why should I care?
Why do I want a Grey-ware AV \ Popup Advertisement Software (no matter who made it, it cleans NOTHING just tries to sell you McAfee) just to install \ update your software?
If you can be bothered to answer any of the above I will ensure that it gets the true attention it deserves, providing I am not too busy uninstalling Adobe... 1 Down 1873 to go... sigh.
I uninstalled Flash yesterday - all 6 versions (6,7,8,910,11) I found on the PC. The motivation to do this were the regular red blobs in the PCs event log. On finding these errors I googled for a solution. Found nothing, so decided to unistall it. Interesting that the Flash auto-update had already been disabled my me. The only reason I unistalled it were the regular issues I've seen from Adobe updates. I wish I could do the same for Acrobat.
As for the security issues - it's mostly the users fault; if they won't stop visiting dodgy sites and clicking on obvious evil links they're going to find their PCs attacked. The only antivirus I have on my PCs are the ones they force me to use at work. They even put AV on the database servers sitting behind corporate firewalls! What's that? - architecture done with paint-by-numbers?
Since I have never paid Adobe anything I don't see why they owe me anything. When one is given stuff for nothing that turns out to be crap, it's hard to really complain. If the people who are paying Adobe's bills aren't complaining then I doubt anything will change. I presume they want to drive people to their servers for marketing reasons (certainly not for security issues - if that was the case their software would be better). But what are they going to say - hey don't use some third party app to update our stuff, we can't track you when you do that.
What a shortsighted move. I have spent hours trying to automate Adobe updates for Reader and Flash so our users (who don't have admin rights) don't have to suffer the incessant nagging and yet can have the latest update. Even the Adobe catalogue for MS System Centre don't work properly. I found Ninite a few weeks ago and was working on a solution - guess I'll give that project up.
I recently build my new main PC. So far I haven't put flash (or any Adobe) product on and hoping to never have to. Only think I have currently not been able to do is watch game promo videos in Steam.
Java too is on my resist list but that may prove harder in the long run as too much excellent software uses it.
in Adobe Flash's coffin as far as I'm concerned. The Flash updater is just stupidly implemented.
I've a lot of respect for the Ninite guys - it makes updating all those apps painless plus it is just great for throwing on new VMs and having a standard set of apps easily installed.
I have seen so many malware sites pretending to be a "update" for flash that I as a general matter of course automatically close any window that even remotely looks like it. I have relied on ninite to keep me up to date since not even the best of us remembers exactly which version of Java we currently have/need and can be downloaded from, the Sun/Oracle/Java website is a stuck-in-the 90's nightmare of navigability and clarity and I spend enough time getting rid of McAfee on new pc's in favor of other security products that I certainly don't need or want Adobe foisting it on me.
They will never, ever apply updates unless there is a tangible break>fix>reward scenario at play, and it's usually something completely bollocks like videos not playing on '(their) Facebook site' (sic).
Hence, the concept of seeking out an update, or indeed applying one yelling in their very faces, is purely abstract. With little to no conception of security, applying updates is as divorced from their thinking as, say, changing the element in a bloody toaster.
I would say Adobe have not only done *nothing* to turn around this dangerous mindset, but actively encouraged it in the spirit of retaining old empires and practises.
After applying for their distribution licence, I've rolled out and updated Flash from the MSI and controlled it with the mms.cfg file for the last couple of years with little incident using plain old vanilla group policy deployment.
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashplayer/articles/flash_player_admin_guide.html
http://helpx.adobe.com/flash-player/kb/administration-configure-auto-update-notification.html
Hope that helps and all that.
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