Bill Gates offends Koreans after sticking hand down trousers Bill Gates has managed to offend the whole of South Korea after brazenly breaking the country's strict but unwritten handshake rules. He greeted female President Geun Hye Park with the customary one-handed palm press, but neglected to remove his other hand from his trouser pocket. Using one mitt with the other stuffed in a …
seeing as the president has bent over backwards to let the country know that she is (and the should be) accomodating his american ways, and seeing as the ones howling about being mortally offended by his lack of 'being exactly like us and respecting our culture' are probably the korean equivalent of the uk daily mail reader, I put to you that the uk and south korea has more in common than you would think :)
"hold jacket in one hand, put other hand in jacked pocket, shake bum at president" icon used for obvious reasons :)
Though much of James Dyson's autobiography is a fairly tedious account of his patent struggles, he did relate his experience of Japan. He sought the services of consultants who advised to learn the customs, and to work out someone's status so as to choose the appropriate greeting, and so much other stuff that he just thought:
"Sod it... I'm never going to convince them that I'm Japanese, and anyway they want me here because I'm not one of them... I may as well act like an Englishman, and concentrate on delivering what I'm here to do."
That's not to say that you shouldn't keep some basic human wits about you when abroad... even as a child, I remember a funeral passing through the square of small French town... and all bystanders took off their hats and looked respectful, except for one loudly dressed American family.
" I remember a funeral passing through the square of small French town... and all bystanders took off their hats and looked respectful, except for one loudly dressed American family."
Everybody was wearing hats? Were you a victorian child?
Shame on the 'mericans for not changing the colour of their clothes as it went past though.
My knowledge of the history of the handshake is admittedly extremely limited but I had thought that (at least in it's modern incarnation,) the handshake was a Western greeting. It's a very peculiar situation we have here then, for a Westerner like Bill Gates to be lectured by the Korean press for incorrectly performing a greeting from his own culture.
As others have noted though, it's likely the only people kicking up a fuss are the Korean equivalent of the Daily Mail.
@AC - "if we go to 99.9% of the countries from which we receive immigrants or asylum seekers, we get fuck all in the way of accommodation for our needs and wants."
You sound like my parents, who take a box of tea bags with them whenever they go abroad. They also read the Daily Mail, much to my shame.
"You sound like my parents, who take a box of tea bags with them whenever they go abroad."
Which is obviously completely unlike all the foreign visitors bringing all their own foodstuffs and drinks into britain when they visit. I mean they're british, so obviously its being insular and xenophobic, whereas a foreigner bringing what they like with them is merely them enjoying their cultural heritage. Right?
"They also read the Daily Mail, much to my shame."
Well don't worry, when you get around to wearing long trousers you'll find out that the world isn't quite the fluffy skip down the street together multi-culti love in you obviously think it is.
Dear boltar,
Any Limey or other foreign devil who tries to bring their own food in with them when they visit New Zealand will have it confiscated and fined if they don't declare it.
Only get it confiscated if they declare it.
Why? Well we don't have many nasty things here like Foot and Mouth and nasty Bugs that could destroy our Agricultural industry>
I drink Twinings and I'm an American. Is that acceptable enough? If its good enough for the queen after all, or so the warrant says.
I can't vouch for the rest of us "foreigners" but its not 1960, you can get real tea here now. Though you won't get it in a restaurant. Even in coffee houses that have had theoretically good tea, I have had VERY terse discussions with the help about the difference between hot and boiling water.
Most restaurants end up having Lipton's or worse. Usually steeped in a glass of (sort of) hot water. And it tastes like hot water poured through a new broom. A lot of people I've known say they don't like tea, I have had to make it for them to change their opinion, because most of them have never HAD decent tea.
I used to work a night shift job and drank Twinings Irish Breakfast to keep me going all night, and when my co-workers wound come in in the morning I'd be brewing it and they would exclaim, "That smells great! What is that?" And I'd have to explain that it was tea, and they would be shocked. Again because to far too many of the people here, sadly, tea is either Lipton's in luke warm water, or a bag of various herbs containing no actual tea usually consumed by their new agey girlfriend in college.
I wish they still made Twinnings Queen Mary.........
"You sound like my parents, who take a box of tea bags with them whenever they go abroad."
Mine are the same. Even when they go to France they insist on taking their own shoes, because they like the shoes they have, and might want to wear them while they're out there. Instead of getting properly into the culture by wearing a french pair of shoes the whole time they're there. Weird, isn't it?
Anyway, got to run, need to go kimono shopping for my upcoming trip to Japan.
Yes, we do try to accomodate other peoples' cultures. That's what makes us a more attractive target for immigration than most other places, and why we, with the help of immigrants, do so much better than most other places, attracting the best, brightest, most driven people from those other places.
Wrote :- "Yes, we do try to accomodate other peoples' cultures. That's ... why we, with the help of immigrants, do so much better than most other places, attracting the best, brightest, most driven .."
And you, no doubt priding yourself on being worldly, don't give any thought as to whether those other countries might have needed those "bright" (as you believe) people? But lets not mention also the scum who come here because things have become too hot for them back home, getting away from the moderating influence of parents and family, and importing their crime and their violent political and religious feuds.
And it depends on what you mean by doing "better". Perhaps you mean living in a place looking increasingly like an overcrowded airport lounge, sitting in traffic jams, and seeing what is left of our green spaces being rapidly concreted over to house everyone in ever more cramped living spaces.
With all due respect, the comparison being drawn is a little extreme. Slapping someone round the face and swearing (most likely with an aggressive tone that you would notice even if you didn't understand the language) is offensive in pretty much ANY culture. A better comparison might be Bill Gates dining with the queen and not stopping eating when she does. A faux pas for sure, but forgiveable.
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@NomNomNom what would YOU say if Bill Gates walked up to the queen of England, slapped her round the face and said FUCK YOU
Don't be stupid. The problem in Korea was an accidental infringement of a local cultural convention. There are plenty of countries where greeting somebody with your hand in your pocket isn't a problem, but I don't suppose you can instance a single one where slapping somebody's face and saying "fuck you" isn't deliberately offensive.
{quote}
To people saying it's not offensive because Bill Gates is a foreigner, what would YOU say if Bill Gates walked up to the queen of England, slapped her round the face and said FUCK YOU. We need to be more careful.
{quote}
That only makes sense if Bill Gates genuinely wouldn't have known that to be offensive. Since that would be considered extremely offensive in America too, I think it's a particularly bad example.
"Certainly in the UK, we have to break backs to accommodate foreign culture and its ways, "
Bull.
Speak many languages, do you?
Understands the rudiments of other world religions and basic manners in other cultures?
Frankly, Brits are an embarrassment overseas, overladen with Imperial arrogance and an utter unwillingness to adapt to the manners of others.
Bull I know plenty of Brits who have made a good life abroad and live within the culture, and Americans and French and Germans etc. There's also plenty who are twats (and usually they tend not to stay long, or are on holiday and don't give a shit), nationality does not define the individual.
"Bull I know plenty of Brits who have made a good life abroad and live within the culture"
They tend to be an exception case. Most Brits living abroad long-term coral themselves into little alcohol-centred Ex-Pat groups and defiantly demand roast dinners and 'proper beer' from their walled communities. It's really sad to see people willing to earn their wage from another nation, but totally unwilling to in any way blend with local culture or people. Truth is that despite our multi-cultural national identity and the fact that a few British people are blisteringly good at fitting in elsewhere and being accepted, the majority of Brits abroad seem to be close-minded ass-hats, as I'm sure most Ex-Pats will attest to.
I don't doubt there are. Maybe also the ones I have met because you get to know the group and their friends tend to skew my perspective and so I only tend to meet those who have integrated (as much as you can in some cultures).
But can't see why you think its only Brits, I have met the same idiots from plenty of other countries as well. Its not just some British disease.
Wrote :- "Speak many languages, do you? Understands the rudiments of other world religions and basic manners in other cultures? Frankly, Brits are an embarrassment overseas"
My daughter goes to a "Catholic" School as it was the best around here (I am agnostic BTW). At this school she was taught more about non-Christian religions than about Christianity. Crazy.
I am not an embarasment overseas as I never go there.
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"Certainly in the UK, we have to break backs to accommodate foreign culture and its ways, whereas if we go to 99.9% of the countries from which we receive immigrants or asylum seekers"
Utter bollocks. I think you'll find most immigrants are happy enough to fit into our society, and avoid those parts of it they're not comfortable with. We certainly don't HAVE to break our backs to accomodate anyone, it's just accomodating others is a civilised thing to do.
>We in the West have to be tolerant in this age of multiculturalism and have to bend over backwards to
accommodate every 'johnny foreigners' foibles.
Is that why we go to 'johnny foreigner' land, get drunk, fight in the streets, get naked, etc. etc. in our thousands?
If you go to a foreign country you should live by their rules, or fuck off home. This includes covering up when you go to a conservative culture, and not demanding the right to do exactly that in a western culture. If you don't like someone else's culture, wherever it is, put up with it, or don't go there.
I agree with the "when in Rome" attitude but it should work both ways, anyone from a different culture coming to this country should not try an impose their mores/culture upon us. However in the UK we have become so tolerant with the strange behaviour of immigrants that we have lost our own identity and sight of what it means to be British.
As to getting drunk, fighting and running naked and/or urinating through the streets, this is not only an "English disease", most cultures also know how to have a good time but ignore their own prudes rather than pay them undue attention.
"anyone from a different culture coming to this country should not try an impose their mores/culture upon us. However in the UK we have become so tolerant with the strange behaviour of immigrants that we have lost our own identity and sight of what it means to be British."
I think you'll find that by definition, being British means moving here from somewhere else and then a generation later getting stuffy about people moving here and not respecting our ways.
Being British is about being multi-cultural. That's who we are. Ironically, it is the very people harping on about 'being British' and being arsey with other cultures who are the least British of all of us.
I agree you respect the countries culture you are in.
I have also traveled in a few Asian countries where being a foreigner means that you are not as strictly bound by some of their social conventions than you would have been if you had grown up there, they expect you not to know because you are now Johnny foreigner.
This has included sitting and having chats and drinks with some guys and then being very surprised on a night out when local shopkeepers start bowing to them and showing far more respect than I have who was treating them as equals. Being outside of the culture does get you some leeway when abroad in some surprising ways sometimes.
"Being outside of the culture does get you some leeway when abroad in some surprising ways sometimes."
It does, but it has to work in conjunction with an understanding and sympathy to local custom, or at least a basic willingness to be polite. The slightly comical, trying to be polite, open, slightly reserved but cheerful Brit persona cuts one an awful lot of slack internationally - be it in the boardroom or around a Bedouin campfire - but it wouldn't cut ANY ice at all if you were attired in an England shirt and asking for chips, while patronising the locals.
In short: Basic manners and a willingness to treat people fairly can often shine through and provide leeway, even if one is not familiar with the exact local etiquette.
"We in the West have to be tolerant in this age of multiculturalism and have to bend over backwards to accommodate every 'johnny foreigners' foibles."
The koreans appear to have had more sense than go down the route of "rainbow diversity" multiculturalism and political correctness BS that we've to put up with here thanks to all the deluded liberal brainwashing over the last 30 years, so they just say it the way they see it. Can't blame them really, if its rude there then its rude. End of. However if I was Gates I'd have just said it was my personal Gangnam Style.
"The Koreans should be a little more understanding, especially considering he is a 'foreigner' to them."
Frankly: Balls.
It takes little effort and a passing familiarity with the idea of good manners to spend about half an hour reading up on basic etiquette when visiting another country. The idea of not bothering to do so before meeting a Prime Minister is staggeringly rude.
He is foreign to them, but they are foreign to him. The remiss is his, as the visitor.
Basic. Fscking. Manners.
"We in the West have to be tolerant in this age of multiculturalism and have to bend over backwards to accommodate every 'johnny foreigners' foibles."
Wow. That's amazingly bigoted.
Clearly you're not bending over backwards at all if you refer to the rest of the planet like that and consider that learning basic etiquette is somehow a massive burden that is taking a step too far.
Surely someone should have said to him, when greeting in South Korea you should use both hands or something like that? doesn't the South Korean president have advisors who are there to ensure visits go well?
Although personally I would never shake someones hand on an official function with one hand in my pocket, I'd find that rude, and i'm British!
But I do also agree with the post around us bending over backwards for multiculturalism... yes lets accept them into our country, but there is no need for us to bend over backwards to accomodate their culture, they should respect our culture as much as we would respect theirs when we visit their country...
"Surely someone should have said to him, when greeting in South Korea you should use both hands or something like that? doesn't the South Korean president have advisors who are there to ensure visits go well?"
Maybe they assumed that such a pivotal figure already had someone to tell HIM that, or already had manners?
To me it comes back to it being the visitor's role when visiting someone important in a formal setting to bother reading a guide to etiquette. It's not hard.
"they should respect our culture as much as we would respect theirs when we visit their country..."
I'm not about to let the manners or attitude of a person being rude affect my manners towards anyone else in the world, though. One can't say "It should be fine to not respect other people's customs because some people don't respect mine".
"We in the West have to be tolerant in this age of multiculturalism and have to bend over backwards to accommodate every 'johnny foreigners' foibles."
Funny, on my only visit to Seoul, I was amazed at how friendly and accommodating the South Korean people were. My friend and I visited some hole in the wall restaurants and the owners went out of their way to help us, even though they spoke no English and we spoke no Korean.
The South Korean government even has instituted international cabs to bend over backwards and accommodate Johnny Foreigner-- these are specially licensed cabs whose drivers are required to be proficient in one or more foreign languages and are required by law to give the best rates to their customers.
Maybe you ought to take a peek out from under your bridge and visit some places. It's a big world out there, and many of the people in it are kind and worth knowing.
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It is easy to understand why one could easilly make such a faux pas when 67 Billion little devils push you into the trap. I doubt that he disrespects the Koreans I presume that is just his normal behaviour he must be walking about in a permanent high..
Now if someone would provide me with even half of his bank account I would be happy to do some testing to see whether or not I fall into the same pot.
Nah, Eadon would have said welcome to Microsofts new R&D dept, where Blamer shoved his hand down the back of his trousers, rummaged, squeezed and grunted for a while before popping out a Windows 8 handset and a puppet, both of which he then sent over to Nokia telling them to get on with it.
:-)
People need to lighten up. He left his hand in his pocket when greeting someone. I doubt it was maliciously done, even if the media is reporting it as if he's pulled down his trousers and shat on the floor.
Maybe he was just playing pocket billiards and was struggling with a tricky pink?
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Then the south Koreans need to understand (and the majority may well do) that when a non South Korean does it, it is NOT considered rude.
Bill does far more good than harm with his position and wealth. I guess tall poppy syndrome is why some want to criticise him for a faux pas any westerner there could have made.
You're meeting the president of a country (which happens to be very favourable toward the company which is the source of your staggering wealth), and you either don't seek, or ignore, any advice about polite protocol? I'd most certainly call that rude, and arrogant to boot.
Should you invite someone from Elbonia to dinner, he may throw mud at your wife, fart in your face, and dry hump your daughter. If that's just a normal welcome in Elbonia, surely it couldn't be considered rude, right?
Social protocol is a minefield mate, even if he was taking lessons it's likely they only covered the 'big' stuff, not how one holds themselves while talking, or where you place your other hand during a handshake.
Honestly the whole thing reads like a slow news day beat up.
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He has done it before, as mentioned in the article. Do you really think someone of his status and among these people of all people, he did not know what he is doing?
Maybe he feels no disrespect, but he was telling her it was a meeting of equals.
Same old power trip
Then again, who gives a monkeys? He may have billions and the ability to fill a bedroom with the worlds top 100 women, but hes still a dork with glasses.
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Can the French president plant a peck on her cheeks when he comes calling? After all, its in their culture. The whole Royalty sucking class will be up in arms, trigerring another Anglo-French war. Royal cheeks (chicks?) are more valuable than Bill gates' Dollars?
Protocol, what protocol?
Get over it, guys.
Wasn't aware of this particular social nicetie, but would automatically remove my hand from my pocket when greeting someone anyway.
But then USAians do seem a little less formal in their greetings then those of us on this side of the pond and I wouldn't neccessarily assume they were being disrespectful if they didn't.
It may have its roots in older traditions. Down here in the South of Africa it's considered rude under some of the race groups if you shake hands with a firm grip - it implies aggression. But then some other groups again view a bunch of limp viennese sausages as a sign of weakness.
I, citizen of three Western countries and having lived in non-Western too (UK born and brought up), also thought that to greet someone, especially formally, with even one hand in your pocket is bad manners and betrays a lack of respect or consideration, much like failing to stand up to shake hands or greet a newcomer to the room.
I know American manners are different. They (and sadly now soem Europeans too) seem to think one should wear an ugly "baseball" cap on all occasions and especially indoors. Americans, or at least a large number ot them, seem to think it is fine to say to a waiter, "Give me a coffee!", without a trace of Ps and Qs or even human respect in the tone (I've seen this in UK and on the continent and seen the recipient twitch, grimace and struggle not to give the American something different and more direct). I watch them (living as I do in a non-English-speaking country) speak fast, in broad American to some hapless shopkeeper or receptionist without a thought that, perhaps, the other is not so wonderful at English or at least may appreciate the courtesy of some warning that a foreign language is coming (e.g. "Excuse me, do you speak English?").
Manners are a social lubricant and really it is not so hard to choose an common subset and find the specific differences of importance, especially if you get obscene amounts of money and should be able to show a little respect to the people who make up your customers in return for that money.
Manners are really just a formalisation of being considerate, hence the severe lack of them in this forum.
Don't jump to too many conclusions. In many cases, it is British English that has changed, and American English that has stayed the same (I'm not talking here about unbearable brashness, street talk or Spanglish here - they're American!).
Many words used in America are hangovers from older forms of English, and some of the spellings that we think of as American are just archaic use of English.
Indeed, I've heard it said that if you want to find out how people spoke in 17th Century England, you should visit the southern Outer Banks in North Carolina, where people have lived with few outside influences for several hundred years. Just be quick about it, because they've got satellite television now!
I'm originally from far East Tennessee & our teachers always told us pretty much what you are saying. One thing is for certain though, when the Englishmen I've met say something it (usually) sounds classy and very 'British' and is easily understood. If I say the exact same thing I sound like a complete idiot and no one can understand me: Due to my horrendously Southern accent.
For example I once asked a visitor from London if he would like ice cream. He looked at me in pure horror. It took a bit of conversation to work out that he thought I offered him 'ass cream'...
It's not all that clear cut here in the UK. Considering how small the British Isles are, there is a huge variation in regional dialect, from Scots to Welsh to Cornish, with the industrial regions of the Midlands, Liverpool and the North East all having broad and very distinct accents, some of which are as difficult to understand as your brand.
What Americans often think of as British English is an artefact of everybody wanting to talk like the Royal Family (often called the Queens English) that is mainly promoted by the BBC since Radio and TV came along. This is a real effect, but even around London, we have Cockney and Estuary English. Accents and dialects are slowly dying, but they're not dead in England yet!
"They (and sadly now soem Europeans too) seem to think one should wear an ugly "baseball" cap on all occasions and especially indoors."
...an ugly wig on all occasions and especially indoors...
Yes, manners are a social lubricant and "please" and "thank you" and the like are present in most languages. Therefore I assume this is a some what basic human reaction/emotion/etc. I say some what. Because I have lived in countries where it was absent from their language - the expressions actually did not exist.
However, clothing, standing, sitting, dancing, singing, sneezing, farting, eating, etc., are quite a bit more vague from place to place. Perhaps in a nuclear apocalyptic future you'll become more open minding and keep your "hat" on. Not to stress you though. You're obviously too old to understand what a forum on the Internet is. You press the button to talk, and you can do it anytime - pretty much. You don't need to be considerate and wait for your turn to speak. But shouting, now you know about that, RIGHT? There is netiquette. But I won't berate a n00b over that. Point them in the right direction.
Having apathy for others may result in one being rude. However, one can be quite polite and still have utter contempt for others. So called "manners" and social mores have nothing to do with it.
I suppose this is a cultural thing.
But I was also taught not to keep any hand in any pocket when addressing someone unless the occasion is really informal, like a passing greeting in the hallway. It shows a lack of respect for the other person as a person, never mind social status.
Shaking hands is always formal.
Manners really are the grease on the wheels of society. Having a set of simple rules to follow makes the simian mind feel more at ease and able to concentrate on the content of the situation, not the form.
Makes me wonder if it has something to do with the different views on society in the states and the older and more densely populated European/Asian countries. The USAsians divide people into "Me" and "Everybody else" while Europeans have more complicated and graded relationships with persons. The tribe model is still a part of the mindset.
"But I was also taught not to keep any hand in any pocket when addressing someone unless the occasion is really informal, like a passing greeting in the hallway. It shows a lack of respect for the other person as a person, never mind social status."
Well if it was that informal you wouldn't shake hands. It's the contradiction between formality (hand-shake) and relaxed informality (hand in pocket) that disturbs the mind.
"Makes me wonder if it has something to do with the different views on society in the states and the older and more densely populated European/Asian countries. The USAsians divide people into "Me" and "Everybody else" while Europeans have more complicated and graded relationships with persons. The tribe model is still a part of the mindset."
Americans have a class structure and social models, too. It's just you don't notice them because it's second nature to you. In very simple terms, the key determinant in American class is personal wealth and earnings. There's more to it than that, but it's a good starting indicator.
Hmm, it's not really that apparent you know, cultural and social norms will have an impact on how the language is used.
If you want to take a transaction in a coffee shop as an example, all the Americans that I know and socialise with would say something like "Coffee thanks", whereas the Brits would say "Coffee please"; in cantonese I would say: "Coffee, thank you".
So, it may seem to a Brit, the yank isn't being polite, but he is, he just doesn't use the word please; nor do the cantonese (I've personally never used "please" when I speak cantonese, I'm not even sure there is a word that fits that concept).
From the point of view of transactional efficiency, it's actually far more efficient for you to say thank-you beforehand, rather than to say please, and then waste time saying thank-you afterwards...
@ Malfeasance (great handle by the way)
The British "please" is an expression of desire so:
Question, "Would you like tea or coffee?"
Answer, "Tea please!" means "I desire some tea."
This must always be followed up with a "Thank you" when offered the cup, as the provider of the requisite beverage has fulfilled his guests desire.
The Americans with "Coffee thanks" have simply abbreviated this process, and are not impolite, though they are thanking some one for asking a question as opposed to thanking them for the coffee itself (which could be awful or may not actually arrive).
"From the point of view of transactional efficiency, it's actually far more efficient for you to say thank-you beforehand, rather than to say please, and then waste time saying thank-you afterwards..."
Efficiency has nothing to do with manners, though.
If you look at the *entire* transaction, the British way is massively laden with politeness, with there being about 5 exchanges of it. Anthropologically it's due to our culture being very class-based but pretending we're not and hence not wanting serving staff to feel they are less than equals, hence treating them over-politely.
I recommend reading 'Watching the English'.
At least Mr. Gates doesn't pull all the crap that President Lyndon Banes "Look at my HUGE" Johnson did (http://www.cracked.com/article_18945_6-presidential-secrets-your-history-teacher-didnt-mention.html among others).
Talk about your ugly Americans! (one of my least favorite presidents; it goes to show the idea of "I'll put this guy in as my VP so he cannot hurt anybody" is a really mindblowingly bad one (yes, I went there.))
As I have aged I have tried to be more respectful to other people that I meet, even if I am not particularly fond of them, on a personal or professional level.
Simple things too, when I am wearing sunglasses I take them off when I am talking to someone (this can be bent a little if it is bloody sunny out, but I used to keep them on when in a store and grabbing a couple of things all through checkout, I realized it is actually quite rude, and adds a nice personal touch to the interaction)
(I also try to park my shopping trolley out of the way when we are shopping, so as not to block aisles, not stopping next to someone else, not barreling out of an aisle into the flow and causing people to stop... yes rather like driving, I seem to notice a strong correlation between how people push a shopping trolley and how they drive and pay attention to their surroundings - I drives the trouble crazy because she will just stop leave the cart and wonder off down the aisle to find whatever causing a pile up behind or a traffic jam...
shaking hands, not wearing hats indoors, opening doors for other people (and especially ladies) letting someone else through instead of barging by them always wanting to be first, and my biggest personal bugbear of late TAKEING BLOODY EARPHONES OUT WHEN TALKING TO SOMEONE! yes you little spotty twit, (usually kids but also more adults I have noticed) that means you! NO DO NOT LEAVE ONE IN YOUR EAR! I do not care if the music is "off" chances are it isn't which means you just lied to me too! oh waiting for an important "phone call" well one interaction at a time, the phrase "excuse me I need to take this call" is a very effective way of letting the other person knows you need to take a call, they will often understand (unless it is a social call then they realize you do not have very good priorities).
<<<<< it has a "get off my lawn" emblazoned on the back
"Simple things too, when I am wearing sunglasses I take them off when I am talking to someone (this can be bent a little if it is bloody sunny out, but I used to keep them on when in a store and grabbing a couple of things all through checkout, I realized it is actually quite rude, and adds a nice personal touch to the interaction)"
You wear sunglasses indoors? Hmm, that's... rude.
Well, in the west I'd consider someone who gives a handshake with his other hand doing what-so-ever in a pocket at least as very unpolite.
But Bill Gates is American, o.k., Americans are rude and not civilized, we know that.
But e.g. HRH Prince Philip does the same, right.Well, he's excupated too, as his family stems from some german nobility, which in general is known for rude manners.
Regards
Heinrich
I was going to say frickin Asians, but it possible other parts of the world do it too. One group copies so much of another group's culture and merges it with theirs then accuse the group they copied of not conforming to their culture. Good to know it's not only the Japanese that do that. I didn't see it in Africa or India though. That would be like us Germans going around being offended by people who don't know how to make a real kebab? It might have something to do with being landlocked. I think English do it to some degree as well, though in all fairness I don't recall them making a national issue over it. Though I'm sure someone here will.
At those formal greeting occasions where an unfortunate visitor meets a Maori (usually jumping up and down and sticking his tongue out) he will be expected to rub noses with him or some other Maori.
I can't think of anything worse than this sort of greeting/behaviour , but in another century or two the Maoris may have became civilised.
Could have been worse... At least he didn't throw up in her lap the way George Bush did in Japan that time.
<<< Bush's keyboard??
P.S. When I was in primary school there was a drawing in a book of a happy family enjoying the outdoors. Our teacher was mortified by the picture though, as the father stood there smoking a pipe WITH HIS HANDS IN HIS POCKETS. Argh! I could never figure out what crime against humanity was being committed by putting one's hands in one's pockets but it was considered as vile a gesture as spitting your chewing tobacco on a lady's shoe would have been.
S Koreans are by nature, obsessive compulsive and do toss fits about many things we consider trivial. Last time I visited, one of them called the cops on me for leaving some toilet seat up in some public restroom. But in all fairness, it's the same mental illness that gets them to make us such awesome toys.
This is really a minor gaffe to which I would say, "meh."
But it really seems like it is in character. Another uber-wealthy business titan might have been advised about protocol by a knowledgeable consultant on his staff. But Gates doesn't seem like the sort to seek advice or presume to need any. Humility is beneath him.
Just look at his ham-handed philanthropic work in education reform, one of the causes he likes to dabble in.
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