back to article Samsung's new co-CEO: 'Windows isn't selling very well'

Samsung says it will continue to produce Android phones even as it puts its weight behind the competing Tizen OS, but there's one software partner the South Korean mobile maker isn't so bullish on: Microsoft. "Smartphones and tablets based on Microsoft's Windows operating system aren't selling very well," Samsung mobile chief …

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  1. Robert E A Harvey

    what's that noise?

    It's chickens coming home to roost!

    1. Bob Vistakin
      Angel

      Re: what's that noise?

      The Samsung guy makes a very astute observation here.

      I wonder - do you think he knows which religion the new Pope subscribes to?

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    If it ain't broke, don't...

    "...doesn't indicate a desire to move away from Android"

    I read the article, and that part threw me off. What position is Samsung in to move away from Android? Better yet, why where those types of questions focused upon in this article or by the interviewees?

    Linux or its kindred (BSD) are the model all these companies have been seeking, because they love money. With a big money partner like Google and a Linux software platform, why leave?

    Not to be offensive, but the rest of the article was blah blah. No matter what any 1 person says, it's up to the buyers to give this new mobile its honest review.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: If it ain't broke, don't...

      A big company like Samsung is riding the Android bandwagon but they would rather be steering it. Google could turn around at any point and say "sorry, we're not doing OEMs now".

      Google really are playing it safe now. They bought Motorola Mobility and yet LG are making their Nexus 4 phones? seems rather bizarre, almost like they're going out of their way to try to demonstrate that they're not going to cut out the OEMs.

      1. M Gale

        Re: If it ain't broke, don't...

        "Google could turn around at any point and say "sorry, we're not doing OEMs now".

        Google don't have a choice as to whether you use Android or not. They agreed to that much when they released it under the GPL.

        If Google suddenly did an Apple, I think you'd find a very well-stocked alternative to the Play store springing up practically overnight.

        1. wikkity

          Re: they released it under the GPL.

          The linux stuff is GPL but most the android platform is Apache 2.0

        2. Vic

          Re: If it ain't broke, don't...

          > They agreed to that much when they released it under the GPL.

          Most of it is Apache, rather than GPL, but nonetheless, anyone with code has the right to create derivatives providing they stick to the licence conditions.

          However, Google *could* decide not to release any new code, and take Google Android proprietary. I think that would be a *huge* mistake, but they could.

          > If Google suddenly did an Apple, I think you'd find a very well-stocked alternative to the Play store

          Indeed.

          Vic.

      2. Richard Plinston

        Re: If it ain't broke, don't...

        > Google could turn around at any point and say "sorry, we're not doing OEMs now".

        No they can't. They may stop developing new versions, but the code that is out there can be used forever without any additional permission from Google. And the code can be added to and enhanced by others.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: If it ain't broke, don't...

          In theory, Richard, Yes.

          But in practice, FOSS always ends up lacking due to the whims of community Prima Donnas.

          I know it's a difficult fact, but Android got to where it is due to ruthless management by big business (Google).

          FOSS development that isn't supported in that way almost always leads to multiple "hobby horse" pre-alphas that aren't fit for use and in many cases aren't even fit for purpose.

          If Google pulled back from Android it'd be dead inside 6 months as the lunatics took over the asylum.

          1. Richard Plinston

            Re: If it ain't broke, don't...

            > Android got to where it is due to ruthless management by big business (Google).

            I am not sure why you think that Android has 'ruthless' development. You seem to be just making stuff up, probably because you hate anything being successful.

            > If Google pulled back from Android it'd be dead inside 6 months as the lunatics took over the asylum.

            'Lunatics' such as Samsung, LG, Huawei, and many others ?

            Do you think that they don't have the facilities to continue development that they are already involved in ?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: If it ain't broke, don't...

      I read the article, and that part threw me off. What position is Samsung in to move away from Android?

      Samsung is in the position of the company that sells more phones than anyone else in the world, a world in which the majority of buyers don't know or care what OS a phone runs anywhere near as much as people who fight the Android/iOS battles in this forum think they do.

      Most people here seem to believe that people choose Android, but in reality most of these people are choosing Samsung, and have little understanding exactly what Android is. They don't care that Android is "open", or that Apple has a "walled garden". They buy based on what their friends have, or maybe the Samsung's bigger screen strikes their fancy over the smaller iPhone. Or, and I know I'll get downvoted by many for daring to suggest this, perhaps the massive advertising and media attention that BOTH companies now get sways them one way or another.

      Samsung could easily switch the OS in the next GS and the die hard Android fanboys might wail and moan and say they'll refuse to ever buy another Samsung product. Or might not, if it isn't all that different user experience wise aside from sending all the money from their eyeballs to Google. After all, Tizen will still be open source because it's still Linux, and will most likely (at least at first) be capable of running all their Android apps. The loss of the Android faithful would hardly make a dent in Samsung's sales, and that would be more than made up for by all the money they now send to Google that they'd be collecting instead (yes, Samsung is in this to make money, just like Apple)

      Look hard for how little Samsung even mentions Android anymore if you want a clue as to what direction they are going.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    To be fair, most people who want a Windows Phone will buy Nokia, they have the best support, exclusive apps etc.

    This has just confirmed what most people suspected of Samsung, they produced a Windows Phone but their heart wasn't in it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "...their heart wasn't in it."

      And who says passion is dead!

      More likely they couldn't get a grip on development times to become a long term player fast enough, so maybe their wallet wasn't in it. However, I prefer to believe it was a lack of passion too, be a nice change :-).

    2. Robert E A Harvey

      >they produced a Windows Phone but their heart wasn't in it.

      Perhaps it was a little finger-wag to Google, too? Just to keep Android coming?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "This has just confirmed what most people suspected of Samsung, they produced a Windows Phone but their heart wasn't in it."

      That's a fairly plausible assessment, I think. Don't forget that HTC did something very similar, after Microsoft said "nice phone business you have there, it'd be an awful shame if it were to be involved in patent litigation.. by the way, you will be wanting to support WP, right?".

      HTC more or less went through the motions.

      (Obviously this leaves aside the fact that they seem to be off the boil at the moment too, after chasing a lot of the buzz and indeed customers away by producing too many interchangable and mediocre models, after initial Android success)

  4. W. Anderson

    More dire news for Microsoft

    No doubt Microsoft fans of Windows Phone 8 and new Tablets will dismiss Samsung as some unknowing "Asian" upstart that has no appreciation or understanding for the 'genius' of Microsoft's products, and that Redmond will still achieve the dominance these minions predicted sometime in the near future.

    Apparently they also rejected a recent report from IDC Market Research firm which placed Microsoft smartphone market share in February time frame at approximately 2.9% and the Apple iOS/Android duopoly at approximately 91%. Domination from pittance presence to supplant almost the entire present smartphone OS base.

    The news of strong interest in Mozilla FirefoxOS mobile in Europe and now that Samsung, in alliance with Intel will besoon releasing smartphones based in Tizen, 'another' Linux mobile OS is probably enough to send these Microsoft worshippers over the edge of sanity.

    1. Bob Vistakin
      Holmes

      Re: More dire news for Microsoft

      Correct, but before we hear the sound of tears and violins for microsoft remember these are the patent trolls extorting $5 per handset from the good guys, thus making them a return orders of magnitude greater than their own comedy efforts.

      1. JDX Gold badge

        Re: More dire news for Microsoft

        The "good guys"? Oh Bob you don't just have wool over your eyes, but a sheep sitting on your face.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: More dire news for Microsoft

        "The Good Guys"?

        LOL

    2. mmeier

      Re: More dire news for Microsoft

      Unlike other groups the Windows fans read the article and shake the head about the quality of journalism. The headline says Windows and the article says Win/RT and Windows Phone. Not a single negative word about Windows 8 or the two Win8 tablet pc in there.

      1. Cipher

        Re: More dire news for Microsoft

        mmeier

        Re: More dire news for Microsoft

        "Unlike other groups the Windows fans read the article and shake the head about the quality of journalism. The headline says Windows and the article says Win/RT and Windows Phone. Not a single negative word about Windows 8 or the two Win8 tablet pc in there."

        What is the market share for Win 8? 6%?

        Don't count the OEM licenses paid for, just what is on the street.

        Why is Win 8 behind where even Vista was at this stage?

        People don't want a mobile OS on their desktop. And despite the mantra that the desktop is dead, people seem to want both. I'll grant that 8 is the best and fastest ever made by Microsoft, but perception often becomes reality. And the perception is that 8 is hard to use and sucks. Yeah, there are workarounds, but the average user doesn't want to have to fiddle with it to see a desktop or a start button.

        All Microsoft haters should pray every night that Ballmer stays on...

        1. mmeier

          Re: More dire news for Microsoft

          The reason Win8 comes on slowly is partially that the next big changeover is currently being planned and tested. XP will be phased out over the next 12 month and quite a few of our customers [Think 500-15000 workstation] are currently in the early planning / testing with both w7 and w8

          As for the "perception" this will quickly change wenn Joe Average gets his first W8 Pc/Notebook and realises what ballshit some "journalists" and "experts" have been sprouting. "Quality" journalism these days results in comments like "The Helix is heavier than the ipad2" as the only commenton it

          1. Richard Plinston

            Re: More dire news for Microsoft

            > The reason Win8 comes on slowly is partially that the next big changeover is currently being planned and tested. XP will be phased out over the next 12 month and quite a few of our customers [Think 500-15000 workstation] are currently in the early planning / testing with both w7 and w8

            XP, Vista, Win7 also had slow starts from corporates, in fact many businesses haven't moved to Win7 yet. So that doesn't explain away the slow start.

            > As for the "perception" this will quickly change

            The perception seems to be that the PCs now have the phone UI that they didn't want when they bought their Samsung, so why would they buy that on a PC or laptop? Anyway they spent their budget on an iPad and a SmartTV and their current PC is still running OK, so they won't be buying any more electronics stuff this year.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It's not that Windows is not selling well

    It's because everybody (Google, Samsung and wireless carriers) is making way more money with Android. Besides that, they don't risk becoming slaves of Redmond the way PC OEMs did. It's live and learn, folks! And if Android falls out of fashion then there's other Linux derivatives in line of succession. Windows is not rubbish, it's just that Microsoft can't do much to change this dynamics. Their tight grip on the PC market forced innovation to move elsewhere.

    1. Bob Vistakin
      Pint

      Re: It's not that Windows is not selling well

      Spot on. Everyone in the chain saw what they'd done to the PC business so went out of their way to stop it happening in mobile. It's clearly worked - the chickens have indeed all come home, and that's the way it's gonna stay, folks.

      Nokia were dead anyway - the microsoft tie up was a postmortem spasm.

      1. AlbertH
        Linux

        Re: It's not that Windows is not selling well

        Indeed.

        Amusingly, Nokia are testing their latest hardware with Android 4.2 at present (according to my inside man!) and they have plans to compete with their own Windoze product!

        1. John Sanders
          Linux

          Re: It's not that Windows is not selling well

          """Amusingly, Nokia are testing their latest hardware with Android 4.2 at present (according to my inside man!) and they have plans to compete with their own Windoze product!"""

          I wish that you are not trolling.

      2. John Sanders
        Linux

        Re: It's not that Windows is not selling well

        ""Nokia were dead anyway - the microsoft tie up was a postmortem spasm.""

        Nope, Not if they had made an Android-based Lumia.

        The quality of Nokia's handset is astounding and lots of folks would have bought an Android handset from Nokia.

    2. Simon Barker

      Re: It's not that Windows is not selling well

      There's no incentives for hopping in bed with Microsoft, while Windows phone is a good effort it's still got most of the problems 7 had so why should the carriers really push the platform?

      Firefox OS despite seeming quite lackluster is at least giving the carriers what they want and Microsoft probably should have paid more attention to that or at least delivered on the end user experience which they're not doing while they still lack some of the most popular apps and some of the more glaring problems/missing features which hasn't improved greatly despite having plenty of time to resolve since WP 7 came out.

    3. dssf

      Re: It's not that Windows is not selling well

      At this:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia

      See (about 1/3 way down) "Financial Difficulties and Restructuring"

      There is a graph showing ms' declining presence....

      Lots of interesting tidbits about this Samsung competitor. I didn't know that Nokia's official language was English.

      They were into rubber, TVs, and computers...

      Samsung Group:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung

      Is an interesting story, too. Started out as delivering groceries and selling own-made noodles.

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
        Trollface

        O'Realowski?

        People making money with Android? I thought Android was bad because it involved giving Intellectual Property away, which leads to crappy phones, market fragmentation and dead, festering puppies?

      2. Longtemps, je me suis couche de bonne heure

        Re: It's not that Windows is not selling well

        On the language point, there are 5 million native Finish speakers, and 360 million native English speakers plus a further 1.125 billion with English as their second language or spoken as a foreign language.

        To be a global business from Finland, it is useful to adopt English - 5 million v roughly 1.5 billion.

  6. Frumious Bandersnatch

    filing around 120 patents

    I hope they're not for removing people from photographs or Theremin-style finger detection (and any musical uses of same) because I already invented those and documented them here in the forums.

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

      Re: filing around 120 patents

      Prior art regarding "removing people from photographs" has already been established by some Georgian with the improbable name "Steelman" back in the 30s, really.

  7. Richard Jones 1
    Unhappy

    Why Care About The OS?

    Why does anyone care about the operating system used on a mobile telephone?

    It used to be that you bought a phone that suited your finances, pocket or handbag size, needs, reception in your normal area and had the features you required.

    Do people really buy a phone based on either who made the stupid thing or what operating system it runs? Perhaps that is why so many phones cannot do basic phone tasks very well..

    Personally I do not care who made it or what operating system it runs, I just want it to have the features I need. Sadly this appears to be impossible to achieve with 'modern' devices which appear to celebrate the fact that they either cannot do what I need or do it so appallingly badly as to be useless.

    Shame is I have an elderly phone that already does precisely what I need. Long may it keep working.

    I just hope that the idiots in OFCOM do nothing to stop it being used.

    1. Disintegrationnotallowed
      Trollface

      Re: Why Care About The OS?

      I guess your new to these forums? The people who hate Apple and would never by something from them, whilst frothing about Android, is only matched by those people who love Apple no matter what crap they produce.

      Windows seems to be hated by just about everyone though.

      Hey I wonder if I can get down votes from three camps that'd be novel.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Why Care About The OS?

        "...Hey I wonder if I can get down votes from three camps that'd be novel..."

        Only three camps? Don't do yourself down. By spelling you're and buy wrong and missing out a fair bit of punctuation, you can attract downvotes from the Grammar Nazis too!

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Why Care About The OS?

        You forgot to mention Sony, also more or less universally hated these days by the nerd fraternity

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Why Care About The OS?

          "You forgot to mention Sony, also more or less universally hated these days by the nerd fraternity"

          They invented the idea of putting rootkits on your computer without your permission. As far as I'm concerned that means that I don't buy their products and I don't allow their products to be connected to my network. That's why.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Why Care About The OS?

      "Damn kids, with their new-fangled phones, get off my lawn"

      Yes, I care, as the software that I run on mine* tends to all exist on a particular platform, in this case Android. This is where most of the "features" that I care about come from, beyond very basic phone and housekeeping functions. I'd have to take it into account if I were looking at some new shiny- would my current software work on it, or is an equivalent available.

      Smartphones are little computers, it's a consideration just the same as if I bought a ton of Mac software, and then decided that the Chromebook Pixel was so shiny that I had to have one.

      Since I am not a luddite simpleton, I prefer to look *before* I leap, not buy new shiny because it's a nice colour, and then blame everyone else when my stuff doesn't run.

      * They're proper little computers these days, I heard. Damn kids, completely closed devices were good enough for my Grandfather...

    3. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      Re: Why Care About The OS?

      "Why does anyone care about the operating system used on a mobile telephone?"

      No-one does, but the youngsters have started using the word "phone" to refer to a hand-held PC. Usually these have SIMs in them, so they aren't actually not phones, but calling them phones is a bit like calling your car a portable radio.

      I, too, have an elderly phone that does what I need, so you're speaking my language. Sadly, we are no longer speaking the vernacular.

    4. mmeier

      Re: Why Care About The OS?

      Many people still do. That's why I amcurrently using an Android based N7000 instead of an iPhone (regular updates) or a WP system (one Ul for all) Only Smartphone with a stylus and that is my basic need

    5. Robert Forsyth

      Re: Why Care About The OS?

      Few people have the time or tools to evaluate hardware, firmware, and software mix, so they rely on brands, (except Apple) there are three brands to consider: one for the hardware, one for the firmware/OS, and a multitude for the software/apps.

      Like with cars, there are different manufacturers, VW might use Bosch electronics, and you might fit Michelin tyres.

      A strong brand might have enough goodwill to survive a few mistakes. You pay a little extra for a brand because of the notion of quality (not luxury) it provides (McDonalds is not a luxury experience, but of a known quality).

      How do brands become strong?

  8. frank ly

    Freudian Slip?

    "We like Android and we plan to continue our good relations with Google," he said. "I don't think it's correct to say that there's friction."

    Who says there's friction?

    1. Disintegrationnotallowed

      Re: Freudian Slip?

      quite:

      WSJ: Samsung has become a dominant maker of Android-based phones. Has your relationship with Google changed?

      Mr. Shin: We like Android and we plan to continue our good relations with Google. I don't think it's correct to say that there's friction.

      Statement Analysis:

      Two sentences that oppose one another, the first says they like Google, so it is probably true. However one suspects that the sentence really was more like "We like android but we prefer Tizen" in his head.

      He also says he doesn't think it is correct to say there's friction, as above, it's very non committal. He might not use the word friction, but he might use another word in his head.

      OTOH, there is no surprise here, Samsung would rather drop Android, if they can, for Tizen.

      1. Dazed and Confused

        Re: "We like android but we prefer Tizen"

        They could well do, but the economic fact of life is that Android sells itself while they would have to make a lot more effort to shift Tizen phones. It could well be a case of

        Anything for an easy life

        1. Disintegrationnotallowed

          Re: "We like android but we prefer Tizen"

          I think you have missed the last 6 months, Samsung have been branding themselves strongly. They have been pretty much ignoring the Android branding where they can.

          Originally people bought Android because they wanted a phone that was like the iPhone. Now people want a Samsung, very few people buy it because its Android, not in the general public anyway.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    News flash

    I'd consider myself a W8 fanboy, but only because I've used it and it's a really slick OS, I don't even own one. We'll I was looking I to my crystal ball this morning and let me tell you whatiI saw. Windows 8 will continue to grow slowly but surely as MS relentlessly pour money into it, not necessarily becoming number one but becoming a big player. Tizen and FirefoxOS will both die without most people even realising they existed.

    I for one have not heard anything about strong interest in FirefoxOS.

    1. Richard Plinston

      Re: News flash

      > Windows 8 will continue to grow slowly but surely as MS relentlessly pour money into it, not necessarily becoming number one but becoming a big player. Tizen and FirefoxOS will both die without most people even realising they existed.

      I suspect that you mean 'Windows PHONE 8' which is a completely different thing.

      Several predictions, such as by IDC just over a year ago, had WP7 overtaking iOS by 2015 but these predicted a 9-10% share for 2012 and that failed. The trend is downwards.

  10. The Original Steve
    Stop

    Platform trolling aside, is it any wonder based on their portfolio of products based on Windows Phone compared to say Nokia or even HTC.

    Not saying the platform is amazing, or that what Samsung is saying is untrue - but if I was buying a WP device (and I have done) then Samsung would be the last of the vendors to get a look in. No value added.

    1. dogged

      Exactly. Their windows hardware has been overpriced and boring.

      You don't need to look much further for a reason why it's not selling.

    2. Paul Shirley

      It's hardly surprising there's so little difference between WP phones, the spec is tightly locked down by Microsoft. Specifically the software can have almost no customisation.

      While I actually quite like the idea of near stock devices, phone makers put more into distinguishing their brand and individual devices by software than hardware spec (which is now less tightly specified by MS). Android sales show the public disagree with me, voting for variety over conformity. Meanwhile the carriers selling most devices simply can't resist messing with (and messing up) the software.

      It's should surprise no-one that manufacturers and carriers aren't keen on a device so locked into Microsoft branding. Unlike iPhone they can afford to boycott it, to make half hearted designs to test the water (and fend off license blackmail over Android).

      Samsung don't need these sales and the mainly "big screen+heavy skinning" strategy that got them to #1 in smartphone is a poor fit for WP license restrictions. HTC and Nokia are fighting for survival, they need to try harder - and it's winning them a bigger slice of a microscopic pie.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        mainly "big screen+heavy skinning"

        In fact, the Samsung approach versus Apple seems to be:

        Light weight

        Big screens

        Replaceable batteries

        AMOLED (which may give their products some degree of built in obsolescence)

        Cheaper

        UI that could switch the underlying OS without 90% of users noticing.

        One of the most interesting things in all of this is the way the Apple people bleat on about "premium feel" (i.e. metal cases) versus "cheap plastic". Functionally, an aluminium case is no better than polycarbonate or glass filled nylon, so when the argument reduces to this level you know someone is losing the plot.

        I don't have a dog in this show, I just find it interesting to watch. Unfortunately I doubt anybody will write the definitive study of the Phone Wars in my lifetime, too many potential libel cases involved.

        1. John Sanders
          Linux

          Re: mainly "big screen+heavy skinning"

          ""UI that could switch the underlying OS without 90% of users noticing."""

          You and the "The OS" doesn't matter do not get it, let me explain how it works:

          You take away Android and people will notice that suddenly then, they can run a few crappy apps from a massively and I mean MASSIVELY shrunk down app store.

          Suddenly the What'sapps, Lines, Beavers, and a million plus games are not available...

          I think at the very least Aunt Amy will notice that her previous phone could run that "Guess the word" puzzle of the week so she could play with her friends...

          Really, most people do not know the name of the OS, it could be called BacteriusOS or RedDwarf, they do not give a damn, but the "Guess the word" puzzle... that better be available.

        2. mmeier

          Re: mainly "big screen+heavy skinning"

          When it comes to tables - scratch the replaceable battery. None in the N80x0, none in the Ativ 500 (must check Ativ 700 but IIRC none there either)

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "No value added."

      Ironically, it's the attempts of both HTC and Samsung to "add value" to the software that I find most annoying. I would far rather buy their nice hardware running an almost completely plain Android, like the Nexus devices. It's lighter, cleaner and less fiddly to use.

      Ghods preserve us from "value".

  11. JDX Gold badge

    He sounded quite plausible...

    ...right until he started banging on about Tizen (keep thinking it's Tizer). It's got about as much future as Ubuntu-mobile and that Mozilla Javascript abomination.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: He sounded quite plausible...

      It's got about as much future as Ubuntu-mobile and that Mozilla Javascript abomination.

      Which is still a much rosier future than Windows Phone has!

    2. M Gale

      Re: He sounded quite plausible...

      "It's got about as much future as Ubuntu-mobile and that Mozilla Javascript abomination."

      Oh I don't know. If it offers something better than Android, like a permissions system that works, then it might take off. Samsung ain't no two-bit player, and they can play the same "long game" as Microsoft, too.

      1. John Sanders
        Linux

        Re: He sounded quite plausible...

        "It's got about as much future as Ubuntu-mobile and that Mozilla Javascript abomination."

        The Firefoxes and Ubuntus would have a chance if Google suddenly turned stupid.

        1. Oninoshiko

          Re: Google turns stupid

          They would have to turn stupid enough to overcome the developer buy-in.

          That would be A LOT of stupid.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: He sounded quite plausible...

      @JDX - Have you noticed yet that people here automatically downvote you, then sometimes read what you posted?

      1. JDX Gold badge

        Re: He sounded quite plausible...

        >>@JDX - Have you noticed yet that people here automatically downvote you, then sometimes read what you posted?

        Clearly you have access to the Reg database so you can track a given user's voting & commenting times.

        Either that or you're a small-minded immature FOSSboi who takes any critical comment about FOSS software (or even a lack of attack on M$) as a personal attack.

        I wonder which it is.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Half-arsed effort so far - at least with the Activ S

    The Activ S has not long been released in the UK - most reviews seem to be from February and there does not seem to be any big reason to not buy a Nokia 920 instead. Too late with no visible marketing.

    1. Fuzz

      Re: Half-arsed effort so far - at least with the Activ S

      I bought an Ativ S over a 920 for 4 reasons.

      1. Cost - £100 cheaper than the Nokia when bought outright

      2. Size and weight - both slimmer and lighter than the Nokia by quite a margin

      3. Expandable storage - SDXC support means I've added and extra 64GB of storage for £40

      4. Replaceable battery - this is a nice option to have.

      It's just a shame Samsung couldn't think of anything interesting to do with the design. Also 2-4 apply to the HTC 8X

  13. tempemeaty
    Pint

    It would be nice if the PC OEMs learn something from this

    Nice to see Samsung pave multiple roads to their future. I hope Samsungs support for Tizen OS does well for them.

    1. Christian Berger

      Re: It would be nice if the PC OEMs learn something from this

      Well actually today most PC OEMs support multiple operating systems. At least outside of the consumer business.

      You'd not be able to ship a lot of servers it they couldn't run Linux and *BSD. If you sell to universities offering support for their flavour or Linux is essential as many departments depend on it.

      Offering a choice of different operating systems was one of the design principles behind the IBM PC. That's why it load the bootloader off the harddisk. That's why it offers multiple kinds of hardware abstraction layers. Without any special drivers you can find out what kind of graphics card you have, you can even use it via the VESA interface. You can access your harddisk, your mouse. It's enough to find out what hardware you have an what drivers you need. I can just plop an old version of OS/2 onto new hardware and there would be a decent chance it would just run, just as well as I could develop an operating system on my PC and it would just run on anybody elses PC without any changes.

      In the mobile world however there are no common platforms or standards. Sure you can port Linux to most of those by now, but the image for my phone won't run on another model. Everything needs to be ported to every device. This makes it so hard to separate the software business from the hardware business in that area. It's all like in the home computer age. An Amiga and a Mac weren't all that different hardware wise, but you couldn't run the same software on them. (There were however Atari 'emulators' running on one of them as far as I can remember)

      The result was that each of those computers was it's own platform. The result was that software development was lumping along. Each idea had to be re-implemented again on each platform to get some traction. Ideas only popping up on one platform (something not to uncommon back then) either kept that platform going (think of the Atari and MIDI) or disappears with it.

      There was one early platform which tried to be hardware agnostic in the home computer age and that was CP/M. Porting it to a new machine meant writing a BIOS for it, and patching one word for the size of RAM you had. (yes that's weird) We are kinda there with Android now, only that the hardware drivers are in the Linux kernel and not inside the flash. Also there's no way to find out what hardware you have inside your device.

      The reason for all of this is of course stupid company politics. Of course once a common hardware platform emerges it'll take over all the rest, just like the PC did.

      1. John Sanders
        Linux

        Re: It would be nice if the PC OEMs learn something from this

        """You'd not be able to ship a lot of servers it they couldn't run Linux and *BSD. If you sell to universities offering support for their flavour or Linux is essential as many departments depend on it."""

        All is very true, but the OEMs allow MS to pay them to keep those alternative operating systems out of curious eyes. The OEMs have allowed themselves to depend on MS for much of their revenue, now they have to obey their master.

        1. Oninoshiko

          Re: It would be nice if the PC OEMs learn something from this

          If they eyes where that curious, they would find other operating systems on their own.

  14. Dropper
    Pint

    Really?

    I always wondered if The Reg should post awards at the end of the year for the best example of stating the bleeding obvious.

  15. W. Anderson

    Expected gibberish from Microsoft supporter.

    If, as 'anonymous coward' proclaims, Windows mobile is indeed selling well - the numbers, compared to iOS/Android sales numbers, but just that Android and iOS are generating more 'profits' (sick logic), why then does the IDC report cover market share as percentage of sales - 2.9% Windows versus 91% for iOS/Android, not profits for which IDC would have no knowledge.

    Next, the Microsofties will be blaming the hapless windows mobile sales on gremlins or the North Koreans.

    when will the idiocy of illogical thinking from technology dreamers stop?

  16. This post has been deleted by a moderator

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Curiously both Tizen and Android both use the Linux kernel

      AFAIK all the latest architectures with the sole exception of Windows are either POSIX compliant or derived from a POSIX compliant OS. Android, Tizen, BB OS 10, iOS, Firefox OS, even dead webOS and Meego. It goes with the territory.

      1. mmeier

        Re: Curiously both Tizen and Android both use the Linux kernel

        Windows is POSIX compliant since IIRC NT4

        1. Quxy
          FAIL

          Windows is POSIX compliant?

          Bzzt, take your seat. Not even Microsoft claims -- or cares -- about POSIX compliance any more.

          Microsoft gave NT a partial POSIX subsystem, which just about nobody used, to get a rubber-stamp for sale into government accounts. (This led to a series of infamous court cases in the mid-90s in which the US Coast Guard was forced by the court to accept Windows on a contract that stipulated POSIX compliance, but then eventually led to an "unfit for purpose" lawsuit by the USG.) In any case, this applied only to the NT kernel when using the Microsoft Windows Services for UNIX. Windows CE, Windows Phone, etc., have never aspired to POSIX compliance.

          Windows is *not* officially certified as POSIX-compliant, but only as partially compliant with POSIX when implemented through an extension compatibility (usually translation libraries) layer. Since NT4, the NT POSIX subsystem has been replaced a few times, and was crippled from the start. That's why everyone and their brother uses Cygwin, UnixUtils, or MinGW for porting Unix apps to Windows.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Windows is POSIX compliant?

            "Windows is *not* officially certified as POSIX-compliant"

            correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the same thing can be said of GNU/Linux. (or rather, does anyone know any POSIX or SUS certified distros?)

  17. JaitcH
    Thumb Up

    Why do people care about the cell handset OS? They can't do much about it

    Given that a cell OS is a fixed, immutable object, except when the likes of Apple or MS deliberately take 'possession' of a cell, who really cares?

    It is the experience of using the devices.

    I have found Samsung tends to overload it's line with an excess of Apps and one of the first tasks for many users is to rationalise the software for their personal use. Other cells require that you pay out hundreds of Pounds, Dollars or Dong just to make them functional.

    Shin seems to be a very skilled diplomat, too!

    1. M Gale

      Re: Why do people care about the cell handset OS? They can't do much about it

      "who really cares?"

      The people who already have many, many apps for operating system X, and don't fancy buying them all over again (if they are available) for operating system Y. Don't underestimate the power of inertia. It's the only thing keeping Microsoft alive.

  18. John Savard

    Tizen Proves Why Windows Beats Android

    I can't defend Windows 8; I'd much prefer an improved version of Windows XP, with a "Windows 3.1 mode" available even in the home version.

    But while the Android platform is nowhere near as restrictive as the iPhone platform, there are times when people want real computers to get real work done. A Windows machine, a Macintosh, or a Linux box are all real computers - you can run Libre Office, you can compile programs, and so on and so forth.

    Tizen is one example of an attempt to put full Linux capabilities on tablets. It demonstrates that full computer flexibility is sometimes needed, and so even if Android is currently the hot-selling item, it won't make real computers go away. Even if they turn into dull, not-very-profitable, commodity items.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Tizen Proves Why Windows Beats Android

      Nah, UEFI Secure Boot will make sure this will never happen again. It will be two flavors of PC : Windows <insert number here> and MacOS <insert feline name here> but none of them will be a general purpose computing device.

  19. Corborg

    I just bought a Windows 8 Phone

    and I bloody love it.

    Down vote me in 3...2......1........

    1. Piro Silver badge

      Re: I just bought a Windows 8 Phone

      I think you picked the wrong place if you expected response to degrade into insulting your phone choice.

      Who cares what phone people buy, but screaming fanboys on the various "latest mobile device" websites?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I just bought a Windows 8 Phone

        If you want down votes just say something negative about Android, that should get you the requistite personal attacks you seek.

  20. Kurt 4
    Flame

    Dear Samsung,

    Nokia and HTC were smart enough to design new phones specifically for WP8. Most people don't care for a galaxy s III with windows installed. There were some users that may have bought your s III with Windows but you failed to release it here in USA. How do you expect to sell any when we can't buy it?

    Regards,

    Customer

  21. D. M
    FAIL

    @kurt 4

    Most people do care if they got windows phone, because the apps they already paid (whether to Apple or Google or other 3rd party) wont work, and you'd rather bet people care a great deal if their own money was involved.

    I bought galaxy s3 because it has nice hardward, and it runs what I need to run + support the stuff I already paid + I can install apps without anyone else's approval + I can make it more or less how I wanted it to be.

  22. Oninoshiko
    Facepalm

    The reason to buy an Android phone over a iPhone

    Is simple: fragmentation.

    Laugh all you want Apple, but it's true. Some people have big hands, and find a huge screen is good for them. There's an android for that. Some want a phone that can be dropped two stories into a puddle and keep coming back for more. There is an android for that. Some people are more slight in build, and so need a smaller phone to fit comfortably in their hands. There is an android for that. Some people want a physical keyboard to make typing a more pleasant tactile experience. There is an android for that.

    With the iPhone you are limited to one company's vision of what your phone should be like. If that doesn't meet your needs, you can either change your needs, or choose a different OS.

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