Ten ten-inch tablets Does it make sense to own both a smartphone with a 5-inch screen and a 7-inch tablet? Arguably not. I can’t think of anything that I can do on my Nexus 7 that I couldn’t do equally well on a Samsung Galaxy Note II. Granted, the Nexus 7 makes a perfect partner for my Motorola Razr i, but if I used a Note II as my ‘phone’ I’d want …
Assuming with Note 2 you refer to the N80x0 tablet and not the N7100 phones than the question is "what is so special" compared to a TPT2.
+ SNote (Android equivalent to Journal) is unstable and crashed about once/day even in "Legal pad" mode
+ SNote lacks "recognize document" option that allows translation after writing
+ SNote does not have a full-featured "multi document" mode, basically only one document at a time
+ Handwriting recognition(HWR) needs switching between numbers, letter and special signs
+ The HWR engine in general is 5-10 years behind the Win8 one
+ Touch can not be switched off, Palm recognition is so-so
+ PDF annotation / tagging needs commercial software
+ Commercial software needs a credit card
+ Printing is lousy unless you use CUPS or your printer is supported by the printer producers app
+ Evernote (Android equiv to OneNote) is "cloud only" making data storage/sync debatable for a BYOD device
+ The unit is so "slippery" it is useless without a book case/sleeve, the Ativ500 has the same problem
The N80x0 has two benefits: It is cheaper and it is more readily available
No, don't work for MS never did. One of my former employers did software for them - ironically using JAVA and ORACLE :) so we did get a chance to test Win8 very early. Liked Win8 from the day the first dev previews came out.
Actually I am waiting for a TPT2 (with 3G and stylus) to be delivered currently as a replacement for the "Was always trying hard" Notes 10.1. Will help me over the time till the Helix-B comes out in late 2013/early 2014 replacing ALL mobile and desktop devices. Well that and a feature-phone.
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i picked myself up one of these recently as i didnt want to be tied in crapple and itunes and i wanted to use the machine as proper windows machine too.
its a great little thing (not so little at 11.6") and a bit heavy but the bigger screen is great.
windows still needs to work a bit better in touch mode as things like increasing the size of desktop items can screw up certain legacy programs as windows open off screen (for example zonealarm in unusable)
i guess price? the acer is a fair bit cheaper than the asus ones with a digitiser.
i have tried mine with a cheapo stylus and it worked ok but obviously not as precise as my old wacom drawing tablet thingy.
i have ordered one of the weird styluses with a clear rubber tip but its not here yet so i cant give you a review.
http://www.dagi-stylus.com/us/index.php?page=shop.product_details&category_id=1&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=59&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=208&vmcchk=1&Itemid=208
im sure this will be good enough for what i need to do. just messing around sketching really.
why the thumbs down?
Citizen Kaned,
I can only assume it's either some very sad, and insecure, Android fanbois, or the frothing at the mouth Windows haters. Some of them are the same people of course.
When I've been rude about Windows or Apple I've not normally had that many downvotes. I like to think I'm fair, I'm usually quick to mention the good points, and I try not to be a troll. But recently, if I'm even mildly critical of Android, I start getting the thumbs down. And it's pretty much a minimum automatic 2 down votes for being even mildly complimentary about Windows 8 / Win Phone 8 (sometime even for just mentioning it).
I've used Android, iOS and Windows Phone 7 and like them all. Although they all have their different bad points too. Haven't used Windows 8 yet, but I've always preferred penable tablets, so long as touch is the main interface. I still get frustrated with the iPad's lack of a stylus sometimes.
haha. yeah, possibly fanboys.
i have played with ipads. too limited and locked down for me (i have an iphone though). i was going to buy a nexus10 but after 2 weeks no 32gb was still available so i started looking elsewhere and found these for a bit more. i was also unable to find out if i could do a few specific things on android that i knew i could do in windows. plus i can install photoshop on it :)
IIRC you can use a basic stylus on ipads, or any capacitive touch screens. i got my dad one for his galaxy tab 2 and its ok for basic stuff. sure, it cant compete with a wacom digitizer tablet but then again, its much cheaper!
I hate those styluses (styli?) for normal capacitive touchscreens. You may as well just use a carrot, or a sausage, for the all the accuracy they give you. I suppose it might be OK for sketching and doodling, but I really want handwriting recognition. That's what seems to me to be the natural way to enter text on a slate. Turning it back into a not terribly ergonomic laptop with a keyboard, or picking away with your fingers at a virtual on-screen one, seems distinctly inferior to me. I'd have thought that would also be true for the arty types - but as I have all the artistic talent of a cluster of colour-blind hedgehogs in a bag, I probably shouldn't comment.
I'm surprised how many games I've played on my iPad since I got it. Mostly I got it for web browsing, and the BBC iPlayer - for which it's great. Just got myself one of those Logitech magnetic bluetooth keyboards. They're not bad, but for me the pen is mightier than the board...
After reading all that, I can't help feeling let down.
There is no real conclusion here. Yes, some of it is subjective, and different users will have different requirements. However all the text could have been summarised in one nice all-encompassing table which would have permitted much simpler comparison between the devices.
If I was marking this article out of 10 (and I can hear the teacher now), its probably in the 4-6 region - "nice try, but could have done better".
I think you're being unfair. How can there be a conclusion? He's gone through 3 different operating systems, and 2 of those also have a stylus option (which allows even more possibilities). So, for example, at the end of the Samsung Galaxy Note he says, this is great if you want a stylus, otherwise go for the Nexus 7.
There is no right answer here. The Android tabs are now pretty good. Assuming the Windows 8 ones are as well, it's all now a matter of horses for course (Mmmm lasagne...).
I bought the iPad 3, at the time I got that, I would have said it was by far the best tablet going - with an honourable mention to the Asus Transformer - although as I recall that was going through one of its periods of stock non-availability at that precise moment, or maybe the radio problems on the previous version.
If I was buying a tablet now, it would be a far harder choice. There's Nexus to save cash, Windows or Samsung for stylus-lovers (of which I'm one). The iPad is still excellent (if locked down) and still has the best designed-for-tablet apps, unless there's something specific you need that Apple won't let you have. Although full-fat Windows has the whole lot of programs that run on that, so it's the only plausible option for a laptop replacement - if the Lenovo keyboard is really that good. The Asus Transformer is good for getting some typing done, but from everything I've read it's not quite up to being the only laptop (unless you only have very limited use for one).
In conclusion they're mostly very good, so pick on the features that are most important to you. Choice is good.
I agree with almost everything you've written, however I would take exception to "Nexus to save cash" - or at least the implication that price is the only reason to get a Nexus. The N10 is priced very keenly, yes, but the hardware is pretty much at the top end (at least for the time being...)
Another big selling point for the Nexus range is the regular updates from Google.
Until you find some DRM obsessed broadcaster (BBC and Sky are examples) who take one look your newly installed Android x.y.z+1 and refuse to allow their apps to run since they've only tested their app against Android x.y.z and it will take several weeks for them to conform that x.y.z+1 is still "DRM compliant" before allowing you to view their output again (even if, in the case of Sky, you may be paying a subscription to access this output)
>Until you find some DRM obsessed broadcaster (BBC and Sky are examples) who take one look your newly installed Android x.y.z+1 and refuse to allow their apps to run ...
That's interesting - I had not thought of that. But, as long as you're aware of it, this is still an advantage for the Nexus brand as you have the choice to accept the update (admittedly it's pretty naggy!) or not. With other tablets you might get stuck on an old version which will lose you bragging rights at the pub.
I agree with almost everything you've written, however I would take exception to "Nexus to save cash" - or at least the implication that price is the only reason to get a Nexus.
GregC,
You've got a point there. Although I do think the others have good points that allow them to justify charging more. Windows 8 is a fully PC and Samsung has the pen, and of course both have therefore to cover higher hardware costs. Whether the margin that Apple are putting on for the iPad is worth it is another question entirely...
My Mum wants a 7" tablet to replace her current iPad 1. The iPad Mini is an absolute rip-off! The full size iPad wasn't looking too bad until recently. Well that's before you start talking about Apple's flash and 3G chips built from unicorn tears - or at least that's how they price them. But in the last few months the full size iPad is looking a few quid over-priced and the Mini much, much worse.
I agree in the sense that Alun didn't really address his first statement:
"Does it make sense to own both a smartphone with a 5-inch screen and a 7-inch tablet?"
Personally, after two years of experimenting I've largely gone back to a simple phone (a Nokia X3-01 I had previously upgraded to a HTC Desire and more recently replaced with a Samsung Galaxy Ace) with a 10.1 tablet in the bag. The smartphone does have some uses, but (for me) they don't justify having anything more than a basic smartphone particularly given how appalling battery life is compared to the Nokia. If I want to do more whilst on the move then I just pull out the tablet - the laptop largely stays firmly in the bag unless I'm on a train/plane/lounge with a reasonable amount of time to actually do some 'real' work.
However, I also have an e-ink eReader (Kobo) as it has a better screen for reading in differing lighting conditions and the battery lasts for a long journey which is useful if there are no power outlets available...
I seem to have heard somewhere that apps can't be stored on expandable memory, which would mean that 1Gb onboard storage is going to look a bit short after 6 months even if none of it is taken up with your music/photos. Would this be right?
Also, carping about iCloud is a bit disingenuous since you can very easily use the dropbox and skydrive apps if you have stuff stored there. Which, I'm sure, every sensible person already does.
Useful review though, thanks. Just in time for the kids' birthdays.
If its important to you, then you should research it more. XDA Developer forums are usually a good place to start. People used to use an app called 'App2SD' to move apps onto removable storage, but it appears that it doesn't work with all versions of Android or every device. However, it might be that you don't require so many apps that it becomes an issue.
Personally, I have a fair few apps on my ICS phone, only some of which are really useful ('Gstrings' guitar tuner is great, unit converters, calculators), many I never use, and I haven't loaded too many games on it- so I have never run into any app storage limit.
Android keeps the application binaries in secure storage but most apps will permit their resources to be stored in an encrypted volume mounted over a file on the SD.
Cyanogenmod can move content to SD even if the app doesn't specify the flag in its manifest. It doesn't use App2SD which would allow apps to be linked to volume mounted over SD.
App2SD is hard to get going properly in my experience and unless you're flashing a custom firmware it's not even an option. I think it's better to buy a tablet with more storage - even the cheapest Chinese tablet ships with 4Gb these days and 8GB or 16GB is more sensible especially for games where many of larger ones can suck up 200-900MB
Definitely go with your gut on this. I have been using an Xperia Arc phone for over a year now and although initially the 512kB memory was enough I am now having to regularly choose which apps to keep as a) not everything will move to the SD card and b) all apps get bigger over time with updates, patches and stored data (which you may not care to discard)
Hmmm. Those Windows tabs look quite tempting with keyboards. But I'm not currently in the market, as I've still got the perfectly fine iPad 3. Although I'm still struggling not to go out and buy the Nexus 7 or little Samsung 7" one (which has far nicer speakers) - just because shiny.
Has anyone got any experience with the Samsung Galaxy Note 10? I've got a friend who's a designer, and I've suggested to him the S-Pen might be rather nice. He likes the idea of taking a photo of something on site, writing the dimensions on the photo, sketching what he's planning to show the client there-and-then, then when he's back in the office he can simply trace over the photo to get a quick dimensional drawing and email it to the client for approval.
It's just a shame that Samsung are at the top of the Android prices - the Lenovo, with keyboard and pen wouldn't be that much more expensive, but could also replace his laptop.
I use a Samsung Note 10 all the time at work for taking handwritten notes in meetings and sketching out diagrams. It works far better than a capacitive stylus add-on to a standard tablet, until you've tried both, you don't really appreciate how much better the S-Pen is. It has proper palm-rejection and is much more precise. I'd recommend it. All the reviews criticise the plastic construction, but i find it makes it lighter and more comfortable to hold than an iPad for example.
I got mine from simply electronics, partly because they were the cheapest and partly because I couldn’t find anywhere else that sold the 3G version in grey at the time.
Also recommend getting the 3G version and a Three prepaid 3G data SIM from Amazon so you’re always connected.
Plus, get the official Samsung pen holder that comes with a spare pen. It’s a good quality full size metal bodied pen which makes writing for long periods more comfortable.
Tested the Note 8010 (WLAN version) for three month, sold it. For an Android 4.x it is a good tablet IF you want a Wacom pen(1) but it struggled against Win7 penables and Win8 penables simply leave it in the dust. The TPT2 (or the strangly missing Dell Latitute 10) have the same capabilities and then some like expandable storage for programs (App2SD did not work on the Note) and a more mature penable software (MS does penabled since a decade ago)
The casing is resonably sturdy in feel but extremly slick even compared to other Android tablets.
(1) If not the 1200x800 resolution is too low for the price
Thanks for those answers. I used to have an HP hinged tablet running Vista. It was slow, and high-maintenance but I was still very pleased with it. The pen was absolutely brilliant. If Samsung aren't much cheaper than the Windows tablets then they look a very good bet. I agree the difference between a proper digitiser pen and those so called styluses you can get for capacitive screens (basically vaguely pointy sticks) is huge.
The new Wacom Bamboo Stylus Feel (released in last month), should give an improvement over the S-pen.
The problem I found was finding app's that could take advantage of the Wacom pen, although the few app's written for the Lenovo Thinkpad Tablet (Android) will work on the Samsung.
It's a shame that the deep discounting (on the Note 10.1) we saw before Christmas hasn't continued (Tesco's listed it at £318, but with clubcard vouchers and Samsung's £50 cashback, it could be had for less...).
I'm absolutely loving my Note 10.1. Can't figure out why I see complaints about build quality in every review I've read as mine has no flex or anything. I've thrown on an XDA rom and have multi-window in every application (there's also an app on the store which does the same) and I really couldn't go back to anything without that functionality now.
I thought I wouldn't have much use for the stylus but use it for literally everything. I use an app called LectureNotes for all my notetaking though SNote is pretty good too. I do lots of technical pdf reading and annotating, and have had no real problems with the screen quality there. Multiwindow is great here for taking notes, or the touchwiz feature to capture a part of the screen with the stylus and paste it into a document.
I certainly will upgrade to the next version if it does have a higher res screen but other than that there's nothing I really miss bar maybe a full size sd and usb slot. I'm even dualbooting Arch Linux on the thing when needs be (not a vnc session, the full thing).
But its STILL Windows 8, i.e. Pointless.
We have a HP Elitepad 9000 (with the wrap around dock) running W8 and its awful. If it stays in metro mode its not too bad but open M$ Lync or other apps chucks you into desktop mode. Its a very jarring, very schizophrenic feeling.
Windows 8 is like a toilet and sink in one; a single device could perform both roles but would you be happy to use it?
depends on how you look at it.
my mrs uses our win8hp tablet all the time and never sees the desktop. yet i can use 'metro' for some apps and go into desktop for any power user stuff i want to do.
win8 with touch does need some tweaking though and there are some glaringly obvious things that needed to be included.
i can do far more on my win8 tablet than is possible on android or ios so im happy.
Windows 8 has a lot of problems but it's not as bad as people make out. I use it on a classic laptop and it works okay. Not great but okay. It doesn't crash, it runs all my apps, it's very responsive. There is no denying that some of the behaviour with mouse and keyboard is hugely retrograde and flat out stupid at times though and I've done my fair share of ranting about it.
But if you're buying a tablet with Windows 8 then it should work extremely well. You have metro for your fingers in tablet mode, but you can still park it in a dock or keyboard attachment and suddenly it's a full desktop. Personally I find this is an extremely compelling idea. Tablets built around Atom give ARM like performance & battery and full x86 compatibility so I can fire up Eclipse and develop on this thing.
I think I'd prefer to wait for at least one more iteration of hardware and software to jump in though. SSD prices will fall, the next gen of tablets will offer higher dpi, the atom chipset will jump to 22nm, Windows 8 "blue" will drop. At that point I think my old netbook will be retired and I'll get one of these things for travel.
Using Win8 on a Dual Monitor setup I have to strongly disagree. Works like a charm. Takes a bit of learning and the will to forget long used patterns but after a few hours it becomes faster, easier. And having "one ui for all devices" is helpfull as well not to mention having one set of software.
The Atom based units get between 6 and 11h of use depending on the model and usage profile. With the Ativ 500 being closer to 6 and the Lenovo and Dell (4cell battery) closer to 11h actually. That assumes browsing, writing etc not playing videos. At least one (Dell Latitute 10) has a changeable battery and the Fujitsu units might have one (Q550 had)
"And thankfully there haven’t been many Nexus 4-style supply cock-ups, so you can actually buy one of the things if you have £320 lying around."
Thats if you can get Google to be @rsed to actually allocate one!
2 weeks after ordering my nexus 7 - it still hadnt been allocated despite daily contact with google and a front line that just lie and a 2nd line that cant be contacted any way other than internal email with 1st line!
Cancelled my order!
I've got a 7" Ainol Fire (snigger) and it's the perfect size. Fits in the inside pocket and bridges the gap between my Huawei G300 and 13" laptop. It's cheap and Chinese but actually solid build, decent battery life and reliability. Great screen res as well. It was this or a Nexus 7 but the Nexus 7 didn't have an SD slot.
There's also the 10" Ainol Hero (snigger) which you might want to check out.
Someone in Ainol's marketing department is either a genius or an idiot (slogan, top right)... http://www.ainol.com/
We have a Nexus 10 (and got my folks an Ainol for christmas - it's the gift that keeps on giving). Though games scale to the bigger screens, I've noticed that there are still a lot of apps that either stick in portrait mode, or waste all that screen real-estate. I got so frustrated with one set of apps that I ended up writing my own (no name, no pack drill).
There's a lot of apps in the store that are getting long in the tooth, or haven't been updated in months, if not years. That's frustrating when you spent a fair amount on what is a very good quality platform.
Currently one gets the feeling many developers are "holding their breath" when it comes to tablets, even more the non-iOS ones. Basically the options for Java developers concentrating on tablets are:
+ Go native Dalvik => Android only
+ Go GWT+Phonegap => Multi platform but UI is not totally integrated
+ Switch to Windows/x86 and program for that platform
The Windows-platform has pros and cons but the Win7/Win8 tablet pc are in the stores and in the press now. Currently I would be reluctant to start a big "tablet" project and concentrate on Dalvik/Android. It would be either GWT with all the drawbacks or a Java application using SWING (or JFX2) as a frontend. With the latter I can get "almost all" platforms (WinXP-Win8, MacOS, real Unix systems like Solaris/AIX/HPUX and even that toy-OS).
Windows has a certain appeal for company admins (integration, software provisioning etc) and accounting (one set of software for all clients / use existing licences, one set trainings) and the units, even the Atom ones, are powerful enough to run office software. Not to mention the sales persons from the software suppliers. Ours where reluctant to sell iThingy / Androids due to Applets etc. not running. With Windows tablets - no more problems.
Well the choice is
Walled garden
G-Mail man
Castrate
or Windows 8/x86. From those three only Windows works for me since that is the only one offering me a penable that simply works and does not need "Big Brother". Add in that software development WITHOUT the need of an emulator is a lot easier. Not needing to pay for accounts (iOS, RT) to deploy my home written software nor needing to switch what little security there is of to do so (Android) is another benefit.
Getting updates / security patches 5 years after an OS stopped selling is nice think as well.
From Japan? Most of the "Japanese" named products that I've seen have a "Made in China" sticker. And if I'm not mistaken, much of Samsung's stuff is not made in South Korea either. We are in an international economy and most of the things we use are made elsewhere; Mexico, Singapore, Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia, China, Taiwan, Brazil, etc. I looked to buy an "American" Car, the Ford C-Max Hybrid. Only 10% of it is made in the US, but it is assembled here.
The local MediaMarks (electronic discounter) has Ativ500 and Sony Duo11 "side by side", the Duo in "tablet mode". From the feel alone the Duo is better, sturdier and not "slippery". Handled an Ativ 700 - same "cheap plastic" feeling as the 500 and the Note. To slippery to use without a sleeve, flexes under pressure etc. And from the forums it has a lot less problems(1) T-Series convertibles are even better build (and costlier)
(1) Basically only the NTrig problem with the stylus battery. Reason enough for me to prefer WACOM
>The only serious fly in this otherwise fragrant ointment [Nexus 10] is the lack of a Micro SD slot.
The other problem with it is that it is WiFi only, and there is no 3G or 4G version even as an option. Google have this right with the Nexus 7 - you have the choice there, although there is no LTE yet - but for some reason not with the Nexus 10.
> The other problem with it is that it is WiFi only, and there is no 3G or 4G
My Nexus 7 happily tethers over Bluetooth, to my phone (which has 3G and a monthly contract SIM). I'm not sure what circumstances would render that combination not-good-enough.
> I'm not sure what circumstances would render that combination not-good-enough.
Low phone battery - there's one for starters. Forgotten phone. Needing to keep two devices with you to ensure one is as functional as you'd want - that's a second and third...
Having had Wifi and Cellular tabs, I can tell you that once you've had 3g as an option you'd not buy a wifi only device again.
However convenient Bluetooth tethering may be, it's less convenient than never needing to.
£1150 for Sumvision Cyclone Voyager running ICS - very light and very usable.
Battery life is about 4-5hrs and will have to see about longevity but so far it does everything my wife's £400 Android tablet does. I bought it for taking travelling so if it gets lost or stolen it is not the end of the world.
Well, I have the readies in my pocket... well in my bank... want to order a nexus 10 fondle slab so that it is waiting for me at home when I get back from working in Ireland and stupid bloody google play doesnt even bother to find out if I actually live in the UK or I live in Ireland and geoblocks me from buying one.
Twats... Someone at Google needs a boot to the bollocks for that little stuff up. The bastards would have had 400 quid off me (for the 32gb version) if they hadnt blocked me!
We all know that Google like to subsidise the price of base devices and then make their profit on the larger storage sized versions of the devices and the Nexus 7 for example (40 pounds extra for 16GB more?) followed this trend.
The Nexus 10 is even worse - for some magical reason, the price of 16GB of extra storage is now an Apple-sized 70 pounds. Hence, you are not "clever" if you are going to spend that much on extra storage - I got a 16GB Nexus 10 and bought a USB OTG cable for under a quid for external USB storage. Mind you, I also have rooted it and put CM 10.1 on it, so that an app like Stickmount comes into play.
My option is to have a 10" tablet for use in the home and a 7" tablet when you're on the move. If you want a decent Android experience on a 10" tablet, especially if you haven't got a Nexus model, CyanogenMod 10.1 is the only way to go, IMHO of course. This particularly applies to any Nook or Amazon tablet (and yes, the 8.9 Fire HD has just launched in the UK - a day after this article came out!).
I purchased an Acer Iconia A500 back around when they came out in an attempt to replace my Win7 work laptop, didn't quite work out. Passed it on to my wife, who 'upgraded' to a Kindle Fire, who complained about lack of keyboard, who now uses both the Fire and a Win8Pro Gateway laptop AND a Win7 uber desktop for gaming. (sigh, my hair is turning gray over her but my kit has more powerrrrr :). Currently my 10 year old daughter uses it for her games and such, although that's falling by the wayside for her Win7 desktop. It's sitting, fully charged in the front room. They do have an excellent resale value on CL I've noticed.
Where was I going with this? I_don't_know_for_sure, although I'm leaning towards a Win8 tablet if/when the price tag becomes reasonable.
;)
S/P is not yet out in Europe, S/RT only recently. Windows penables are an "old hat" and from the "current breed" that comes with Win8 OOB the Ativ 500 is more likely the dominating unit (Out since last year, good availabilty, resonably cheap in the non dock/non 3G model)
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