back to article Windows Phone 8 hasn't slowed Microsoft's mobile freefall

Four months after its formal launch, not only has Windows Phone 8 failed to win Microsoft a bigger piece of the mobile pie, but Redmond's share of US smartphone subscribers is actually still shrinking, according to the latest figures from analytics firm comScore. You may recall that last November CEO Steve Ballmer was crowing …

COMMENTS

This topic is closed for new posts.
  1. Chris 171

    Unsurprising really..

    The phones may be nice but their still mee too devices in a flat slab kinda sense.

    Save for a rumor of full fat PureView coming I'd given up trying to want a WP Nokia.

    1. Androgynous Crackwhore
      Headmaster

      Re: Unsurprising really..

      What language was that?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Facepalm

        Re: Unsurprising really..

        "What language was that?"

        It looks like badly written wannabe IT Journo language. "Full fat" for example is currently in vogue with the hacks because they seem to think it makes them sound funkier and with their finger on the IT pulse more than writing "Fully functional version". Their other favourite cliche is "baked-in" which I'm presuming sounds groovier than just writing "included with".

    2. This post has been deleted by a moderator

      1. Bob Vistakin
        FAIL

        Re: Unsurprising really..

        Perhaps its time for another "burning platforms" speech - all Flop has to do is take his first one and cut n paste Symbian for WP8.

      2. Richard Plinston

        Re: Unsurprising really..

        > It's stable at 0.6% of the market,

        Nokia probably shut down production to _stop_people_buying_them_, otherwise WP would be 5th.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Unsurprising really..

        Symbian is old hat, bad to use and really terrible to program for.

        1. dajames Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: Unsurprising really..

          Symbian is old hat, bad to use and really terrible to program for.

          It's such a shame. Symbian was way ahead of its time in being an OS that was specifically designed for the handheld market (it started life as Psion's EPOC, which was designed for the PDA market -- this was before there was a smartphone market). It should have ruled the world.

          It was, however, really terrible to program for and that meant that it was difficult to program correctly for, and that the better programmers preferred to work on other things. There were good Symbian programmers, and there were good Symbian applications, but the norm tended to be slightly buggy and slightly second-rate.

          Nokia had just about solved that problem by welding Qt onto the top of Symbian, but by then it was too late -- the other Symbian licensees had withdrawn leaving Nokia as the sole user -- and Nokia itself was getting into difficulties trying to decide whether to throw its main development effort into Symbian or some home-grown Linux-base thing (any of which would have been better than WinPhone, but they needed to make a decision).

          1. Mark .

            Re: Unsurprising really..

            Things weren't that bad - Symbian *did* rule the world, as in being number one, as late as 2011. True, it missed the chance to be the "standard OS for everything" that ultimately dominated, because Android got in there, but it had an excellent run nonetheless.

        2. Chika

          Re: Unsurprising really..

          "Old hat"... Now there's a good reason to stop using something. </sarcasm>

        3. Mark .

          Re: Unsurprising really..

          Have you actually used it anytime recently?

          Symbian uses Qt, one of the best programming APIs I've come across. And having used recent Symbian and Android, I find them both good, each have their pluses and minuses.

      4. Pat 4

        Re: Unsurprising really..

        What people don't seem to understand is that Elop is NOT Nokia's CEO... he never was, never will be, was never supposed to be.

        Ballmer is Nokia's CEO. Elop is Microsoft's VP of the Nokia Division.

    3. LarsG

      There is nothing intrinsically wrong with any platform, it boils down to only one thing...

      What is cool and what is not.

      Symbian was and now is not.

      Windows is not.

      Blackberry now has got an image problem

      Android was uncool but is now cool.

      Apple was cool but now feels like your dad dancing at a party.

      The cool factor sells phones whether it has great tech or not.

      1. Darryl

        @LarsG Re: cool factor

        Lars has hit it right on the head. We may compare tech gadgets based on processors, resolutions, memory, operating system, etc. but for the majority of everyday-people smartphone buyers, there are a few more basic criteria.

        Sadly, probably the main one for most is 'Is it cool? Will I be embarrassed if I don't have the same phone as <insert celebrity here>?"

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Unsurprising really..

      The problems with Windows Phone are many.

      The OS is too fat, a battery hog of the worst degree, that fat doesn't allow it to run Windows apps however, it carries alot of the baggage of full windows with none of the benefit.

      There are no apps. Sure some of the main one are there, but there are LOTS that aren't (no iPlayer for example, and none on the horizon). The app store is mosty a barren wasteland after the first page.

      The phones are ***REALLY*** buggy. Sure a casual glance or a quick review won't show up the cracks, but a month of use WILL. The hundreds of small problems all amount to a VERY big problem - The phone is barely passable as a phone (even that is buggy, with the proximity sensor having a mind of it's own, onscreen keypads not working when needed etc), but as a smartphone, it's barely usable, lots of problems with bluetooth, random reboots and plenty more.

      The phones are either:

      a) shit (Lumia 620 - 820)

      b) expensive (Lumia 920)

      When you can get a Nexus4 sim-free for £270, you would be bonkers to buy ANY Lumia. The Pureview branding is a gimmick and consumers know it.

      All these problems are why Microsoft and Nokia can't even give away Windows Phone 8, and why if you own one, everyone laughs at you.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Unsurprising really..

        Weird, because I have a Lumia 800 and I think it's great. Only bug I have with it is that for some reason it gains 1 minute every week or so. My network doesn't appear to support time sync so have to adjust clock every few weeks. Plenty of apps for my needs. Only hardware problem I had was the small flap over USB connector bending after about 15 months use.

        My wife has a Lumia 710 and loves it. Again, apart from the slightly-fast-clock (we're on the same network as well), no bugs she's noticed.

        I use a Lumia 820 for some development at work, and again, not seen any bugs.

        To me the the OS feels stable, clear and a fresh change from other OS. As for the hardware, I'm happy. I love the Lumia 800 design - so different from all the other flat-slab handsets at the time.

        1. Davidoff
          Holmes

          Lumia 800 clock

          "Weird, because I have a Lumia 800 and I think it's great. Only bug I have with it is that for some reason it gains 1 minute every week or so. My network doesn't appear to support time sync so have to adjust clock every few weeks. "

          It's not the network that doesn't support time sync, it's your phone (and mine, having a Lumia 800 myself). The Lumia 800 does not support network time syncing, and it's a well known issue that the clock deviates quickly. A real pain in the butt Nokia could have fixed with one of the many updates, but the problem is still existing in WP 7.8.

      2. Mark Allread

        Re: Unsurprising really..

        Mate, if you're really expecting a Windows Phone all to be able to run Windows apps and you also think that makes any kind of sense, then I don't think you really understand the market.

        Secondly, the Windows Phone platform is the most solid smartphone experience I've ever had. It doesn't crash, like ever. It just works, all the time. My brother has Android and the comparative experience he has with his devices is hilarious. He's constantly upgrading to the next new model in the hope that it'll finally be solid and fast enough, but it never seems to be.

        1. Chris Parsons Bronze badge

          Re: Unsurprising really..

          Couldn't agree more. I lost my HTC Desire Z and bought a Lumia 920 cheap on ebay. It's great, it does everything I want it to do and the battery life is certainly better than the Desire. The call quality is better, the GPS is much better, Nokia Maps - terrific. The only thing I really, really miss is the proper keyboard of the Desire.

        2. bailey86

          Re: Unsurprising really.. Please look before you type

          http://wmpoweruser.com/any-issues-after-the-nokia-lumia-920-windows-phone-8-update/

      3. Wider Web
        Thumb Down

        Re: Unsurprising really..

        Indeed windows RT is full of annoying UX faults. the almost random zooming whenever I touch the screen annoys the tits off me.

    5. Danny 5
      Windows

      Re: Unsurprising really..

      I must admit i actually AM rather surprised. I think the Lumia is a great device and a lot of people i know have taken a liking to it as well. I honestly believed that winphone/lumia was moving up in the mobile world.

      Well, i'll be sticking with it for as long as possible and can't wait for the new Lumia with pureview tech in it.

  2. Pete Spicer

    So, Nokia isn't there... um... Microsoft and Symbian are both represented, doesn't that cover Nokia any more?

    To be honest, I have a Symbian-based Nokia PureView 808 and am very satisfied with it. Yes, it's a bit of a slab but to be honest it fits my hands very nicely, moreso than an iPhone does.

    And judging by the crapfest that was Microsoft 'social crap' that came with my last update, WP Nokia can fuck right off.

  3. This post has been deleted by its author

  4. fzz

    3rd or 4th place

    BlackBerry would be thrilled with 3rd place and unit sales in the high millions or low tens of millions. They could even do reasonably with a close 4th place, certainly muddle through to another version.

    MSFT, OTOH, with voracious management egos to feed, couldn't stand 4th place, but a distant 3rd place, say, 20 million Windows Phone sales per year at US$30 per phone means revenues of just US$600 million, which by MSFT standards is rounding error. I'd be very surprised if last year MSFT wasn't targeting at least US$1 billion in WP8 revenue in 2013. Doesn't look like they'll get there.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Who would have thought?

    One form factor down.

    Now let's just wait for Windows on tablets to fail, then can we get back the half-decent desktop OS Windows was once and forget about this whole Metro embarrassment, pretty please?

    1. xpusostomos

      Re: Who would have thought?

      You're really still enamored with a half decent desktop OS when there are fully decent options out there? Like or loath Metro, at least (finally) MS had a rethink of the vast cruft and user antogonistic interface that was Windows since the beginning.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Who would have thought?

        You're really still enamored with a half decent desktop OS when there are fully decent options out there?

        Quite the opposite actually but Windows pays a good chunk of my bills so I have to put up with it, and Metro makes it even more painful than before.

        Now when it comes to fully decent options, we all know the general public won't use them any time soon. Me, I'm rather satisfied with KDE, thank you very much.

        1. spazinvader

          Re: Who would have thought?

          You made my day. If a "full decent" OS cannot pay a good chunk of your bills, what is the use of having it?

          Besides, why put up with Metro? You can always stick with XP or 7 or even the failed Vista right? Why upgrade yourself to Windows 8?

          Besides, just a little comparision. If general public won't use the fully decent options, are you presuming that general public is using Android just for the same reason?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            @spazinvader

            If a "full decent" OS cannot pay a good chunk of your bills, what is the use of having it? Besides, why put up with Metro? You can always stick with XP or 7 or even the failed Vista right? Why upgrade yourself to Windows 8?

            You gotta be kidding. It doesn't take a genius to understand that in IT we don't always have much control over our customers' environments and that, yes, sometimes we have to put up with it because that's our friggin' job. Fortunately, just because it's our job to support environments we don't necessary like, it doesn't mean that we have to inflict them on ourselves at all times. Duh.

            I am not saying that Linux uses only terminals. [...] For more user intensive work, through GUI is either too tough or highly impossible. This is not the case with Windows.

            You seem to assume that admin GUIs always are a desirable thing. Well, I for one will take text config files and terminal commands any day because they're much more convenient and productive to work with compared to layers of dialog boxes that are a pain to navigate. To each his own I guess.

      2. Bert 1
        FAIL

        Re: Who would have thought?

        "MS had a rethink of the vast cruft and user antogonistic interface that was Windows since the beginning."

        Erm - and no again. Metro is a dogs dinner with tiles which only give access to all Microsoft's social crap. (XBox live on a business tablet FFS?) And you've not got a unified sign in - have to sign in to each separately from what I can see :-(

        For any "real work" (including browsing) you get thrown back to the same old crufty desktop interface.

        Worst of all worlds really.

        1. spazinvader

          Re: Who would have thought?

          "For any "real work" (including browsing) you get thrown back to the same old crufty desktop interface."

          Ha ha. Please come back and post here once you have actually started using Windows 8.

          1. fung0

            Re: Who would have thought?

            spazinvader sez: "Ha ha. Please come back and post here once you have actually started using Windows 8."

            Been there, done that. And yes, you really do get thrown back to the "same old crufty desktop" for a lot of 'real work. For instance, how about file copy? I think that qualifies as 'real work.' Or making configuration settings that are inexplicably not available from the Charms bar? Pretty real. Or how about running Office - even the very latest version? Yep, still on the desktop, and cruftier than ever.

      3. Avatar of They
        FAIL

        Re: Who would have thought?

        Microsoft did indeed have a good go of creating a new interface. They thought about it, obviously thought about it some more and then against all better judgement (even by the yanks standards) Ignored the concept of 99% of the worlds end users being in a work environment and then went ahead anyway and ****ed it.

        ....Badly.

        But in the process they bought out Nokia from the inside and brought them down as well. (I was an N900 owner and as such I will never own a Nokia.)

    2. This post has been deleted by a moderator

      1. Androgynous Crackwhore
        Facepalm

        Re: Who would have thought?

        So even "techies" on this site (mostly mouse-clicking windodws "admins") assume the only options are Mac or Windows.

        Was with(ish) you until that... but I think you did yourself and your argument a bit of a disservice from there. Quick tip: Sometimes less is more ;o)

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Who would have thought?

        Open source taking over the tech world? since when? I've been hearing about it for at least the last 10 years and yet I've not noticed any significant gains over the last 5 years at least.

        On the desktop I've heard people are actually getting rid of Linux not switching to it. Those few big name PC vendors who dabled with it seem to have lost interest as well.

        In the server world, it had its chance for all those years where windows server was still considered a joke. Now most people take windows server seriously and Linux had its chance there and missed it.

        On mobiles - well I guess there is android, but in my view that doesnt really fit the traditional sense of open source as there arent that many people messing with android source other than to get the latest versions on older phones.

        The revolution, what revolution????

      3. spazinvader

        Re: Who would have thought?

        I agree that the Open Source idea is cool. However, I do not agree with the point "Those that have only used Windows do not know how good Linux Mint is".

        Linux Mint is good and super cool(at least that's my opinion). However, Windows is super easy that Linux Mint. Like to do anything with the system? There is some X software available which let you get the job done just by mouse clicks.

        I am not saying that Linux uses only terminals. That's not I am intending to do. I do know that doing Admin things through GUI is there. However, they get you only to a certain height. For more user intensive work, through GUI is either too tough or highly impossible. This is not the case with Windows.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What's up with the chart

    The chart doesn't add up to 100%. The unknown mobile category has grown by .2 though.

    1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      The other 0.4%

      Ubuntu for phones is on its way (late this year?), so it cannot be that.

      Firefox for phones should appear in this month if you search very hard, but it cannot be that yet.

      Sailfish (next-generation MeeGo made by ex-Nokia Linux programmers) is in progress and I expect it will turn up in India and Finland this year.

      Tizen (next-generation MeeGo made by Samsung) should arrive this year too. European and US will be able to buy it despite Apple's inevitable tantrum.

      Palm OS - there could be some legacy devices still going, but it is hard to see how Palm could cause an increase in market share.

      Bada (Another Samsung OS) got 2.9% of world sales last year, but mostly in poor countries. Some of the 0.4% of US market share could be from Africans bringing their bada phones to the US.

      MeeGo (The Linux OS Elop restricted to small markets and it still almost outsold Windows Phone 7) might account for some of that 0.4% despite Elop's best efforts.

      Windows phones are in fourth place if you only look at the US. World-wide, they are behind Bada. Tizen could easily pass Windows this year (US or world). If Elop keeps working hard, Windows could fall behind Sailfish. Elop would need a lot of help from Ballmer to push Windows below Firefox and Ubuntu. I cannot see how Windows could fall behind Palm this year, but if anyone can achieve that, it will be Elop and Ballmer.

      1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

      2. Philip Lewis

        Re: The other 0.4%

        "Tizen (next-generation MeeGo made by Samsung) should arrive this year too. European and US will be able to buy it despite Apple's inevitable tantrum."

        Will Samsung replace their Bada range with Tizen?

        I have always assumed they would, but I have not seen it stated. Bada seems to sell twice as many phones globally as WP and most techies have never even heard of it and for some reason lots of "analysts" seem to disregard its existence.

      3. Philip Lewis
        WTF?

        Re: The other 0.4%

        "Bada (Another Samsung OS) got 2.9% of world sales last year, but mostly in poor countries. Some of the 0.4% of US market share could be from Africans bringing their bada phones to the US."

        Like France?

      4. spazinvader

        Re: The other 0.4%

        Buddy... If you think Firefox for phones and Ubuntu for phones can outsell Windows Phone, you are truly naive. Period.

  7. Robert E A Harvey
    Unhappy

    History

    I've not forgotten what carp WM6 & 6.5 were, and the total lack of updates and bug fixes. And how WP7 users were so rapidly backwatered. There is no way they are getting any more of my money. Ever.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: History

      Funny, my old WM6.5 HTC HD2 is still going strong as a satnav running CoPilot. Tried it for web browsing as well, and it still worked fine. Apart from the ease of getting new apps, it wasn't that bad.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: History

        "Funny, my old WM6.5 HTC HD2 is still going strong as a satnav running CoPilot. Tried it for web browsing as well, and it still worked fine. Apart from the ease of getting new apps, it wasn't that bad."

        Its interesting how almost the exact same thing applies to Symbian. Neither were great to code for, neither had a decent app store. But other than that, both were solid OS's that with the right direction and marketting could have had a much better future. Tomtom on my old N series nokias was great as a GPS back in the day.

    2. spazinvader

      Re: History

      Please do not buy Android(other than Nexus) as well. Still many Android runs in Android version 2.*.

      And lot more phones are stuck at 4.0 and 4.1 despite 4.2 was released long back. Better buy an iPhone or Nexus range of phones rather than any other.

    3. fung0
      Happy

      Re: History

      Robert E Harvey sez: "I've not forgotten what carp WM6 & 6.5 were..."

      Actually, WM was a great OS, for its time. Powerful. UI a bit limited, but easily upgraded. Tons of superb apps (we called it 'software,' back then). MS should have evolved WM into the niche now usurped by the bizarro WP. Instead, it threw away backward compatibility (previously a company hallmark), and threw a sizable population of WM users under the bus. A couple of years from now, they'll probably do the same to everyone who swallows the current WP pitch.

  8. ScissorHands
    Devil

    Good... Good...

    My schadenfreude for Nokia knows no bounds. Sweet, sweet schadenfreude.

    Don't be sad, my precious N9. You don't have any connection to them anymore. They were the first to turn their backs to you.

    1. Zola
      Thumb Up

      Re: Good... Good...

      My N950 upvoted your post...

      1. ScissorHands
        Angel

        Re: Good... Good...

        All by itself? Now *that's* a smart phone.

  9. PaulR79
    Unhappy

    Did I miss the big Microsoft advertising blitz?

    I don't remember seeing a single Windows Phone 8 advert on TV since they launched. I've seen articles on various tech sites like this one but no actual ads on TV. Two big things are working against Microsoft more than anything else right now from my point of view.

    1. Abandoning Windows Phone 7.x for the bad idea it was. Yes it may get updates still but it will never go beyond 7.x if they have any say in it.

    2. Some awful basic apps. The music player is atrocious and that's being kind to it. There is no ability to create a playlist then add songs to it. You have to add songs to a Now Playing list *then* save it as a playlist. You can't edit that playlist to add or remove songs either so if you made a mistake you start over. I also haven't figured out how to clear the Now Playing list... there are no alternatives on the Marketplace.

    The lack of quality apps is still a huge issue as is their seemingly uncaring attitude to the whole system. The hardware is fantastic, especially the HTC 8X but what's the point of having a great phone if you hate using it? There's an almost indifferent attitude to development too with app submissions either being ignored for weeks or just not being dealt with. If they are to have any hope of getting / staying 3rd they need to sort out a lot of basic issues. The ones I've listed are the biggest that I can see having used it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Did I miss the big Microsoft advertising blitz?

      What any prime time US show and you will see the main characters pull out a windows phone. Microsoft have gone for product placement in nearly every show.

      PS. I have no idea if they also advertising as I never watch the adverts.

      1. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

        Re: Did I miss the big Microsoft advertising blitz?

        Microsoft have gone for product placement in nearly every show

        Figures - with actors it doesn't actually have to *work*..

        1. Mark .

          Re: Did I miss the big Microsoft advertising blitz?

          I don't about MS, but practically *every single US show* (at least, those that also air over here) in the last five or more years has Apple product placement in it. The only exceptions being those where it doesn't make sense (e.g., sci-fi, fantasy, historical). (Thankfully those are my favourite genres...)

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Did I miss the big Microsoft advertising blitz?

        Plus the shameless promotion of it on the gadget show. Suddenly they love WinPho more than apple/ios it seems - nothing to do with their sponsorship I'm sure!

        I guess microsoft advertising WinPho 8 would be tricky now with several manufacturers using it. I guess they'd have to show nokias but surely the other manufacturers would take that as favouritism?

    2. fishman

      Re: Did I miss the big Microsoft advertising blitz?

      While out shopping a month ago, I dropped into the AT&T wireless store. They had alot of WP8 phones there, and were pushing them rather hard. I assume that the big push is due to AT&T getting some cash from Microsoft.

  10. This post has been deleted by a moderator

    1. Bob Vistakin
      Holmes

      Re: The MAGIC rotting MOBILE CORPSE of Microsoft

      Blackberry will grow by a few percent - that's obvious once the new models arrive in volume. Ordinarily, that wouldn't bother the other players but what's this? Microsoft only have few percent to start with, and as these charts constantly show that's heading South by the quarter. Android isn't going to stop growing. The only sizeable sector left to go for is increasingly dissatisfied iPhone users who don't jump to Android - and up to now, even this tiny minority has only had WP8 to look at.

      Not any more :-)

    2. graeme leggett

      Re: The MAGIC rotting MOBILE CORPSE of Microsoft

      Since the figures in the graph are for relative share only, it's possible that both Blackberry and Microsoft kept the same number of subscribers but the market expanded by a percentage point or so.

      I don't suppose other parts of the world are much different in relative uptake of Windows Phone but may be a more rapidly expanding market - are there any figures for that?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The MAGIC rotting MOBILE CORPSE of Microsoft

      At launch there were few WP8 phones available that weren't on some exclusivity deal. There were few budget models.

      Nokia is launching two cheaper handsets as are other brands.

      WP8 has been out for how long? about three months and the time after xmas is always slow.

    4. Danny 5
      Meh

      Re: The MAGIC rotting MOBILE CORPSE of Microsoft

      Yeah see, i don't really believe that. I currently own a Lumia 900 and am waiting to be upgraded to 7.8. It has served me very well up till now. A friend of mine has a 920 and is very possitive about that as well.

      Aside from that, i've also heard very little negative comments about winphones amongst my peers, so those hordes of people telling their mates how crap winphone is, are probably just you and your mates.

      But fair enough, stats suggest they're not doing very well and there has to be a reason for that. I have a hard time believing it's because winphone 7/8 are crap though.

    5. spazinvader

      Re: The MAGIC rotting MOBILE CORPSE of Microsoft

      With your great logical mind, would you mind telling why in the world someone must not have waited for Windows Phone 8 to be released than buying Windows Phone 7?

      Not to mention, Windows Phone 8 OS is released by October end and "few" operators started sending the users by late November. Why not those guys wait for their provider(eg Sprint) to provide them?

      Honestly, you hate MS or WP* and so you found a way to make them look fail more.

  11. MacroRodent Silver badge
    FAIL

    Burning platforms

    The last 2 lines of the table must hurt at Nokia HQ: The old "burning platform" still keeping afloat better than the new one. Ouch!

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    But..

    ... Nokia adverts here in the UK state that they have sold MILLIONS of their new phones. Now when you say MILLIONS you really mean serious numbers ..

    So are they lying?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: But..

      Nokia may have sold millions of phones... but ComScore are counting subscription, i.e. phones in the hands of end-users. Not sure if that includes pre-paid, but anyway few flagship phones are going to be sold on PAYG.

      The difference between Nokia and ComScore figures are the phones sitting in shops and networks' warehouses, waiting for someone to want them.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: But..

        "...but anyway few flagship phones are going to be sold on PAYG."

        Wrong. I guess you just don't get out very much.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: But..

      "So are they lying?"

      Most people would accept that they have sold "millions" if they've sold 2 million or more. But in marketingspeak, 1,000,001 still counts for the plural.

      But even if they'd sold 2 million, how does that compare to Apple and Samsung in the same period?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: But..

      More popular in the UK than USA??

    4. Mark .

      This is US only, not at all representative of worldwide (also means that Apple aren't #1)

      This is US only, whilst WP8 still grows overall. That's why the figures don't match up, either with the Nokia adverts, or what MS have said (as reported in the article). The only lie is the Register spinning US-only facts as if it was representative of the worldwide market.

      Similarly with Android vs IOS or Samsung vs Apple. Worldwide, Samsung are first (and Nokia second), way ahead of Apple. And in the US, last quarter IOS went up with Android falling, but that was only in the US - worldwide Android continues to dominate.

      I don't care for WP, but I dislike articles trying to mislead people just to push an agenda - it seems that not one single other commenter noticed that these figures are for the US only.

      The only valid point worth reporting is that Nokia still haven't broken into the US market, despite them hoping to with WP. But that isn't a fall - Symbian never made it in the US either. In general, the US has never been representative of worldwide usage. I mean, in 2007 they thought Apple's dumb phone was something amazingly new because the US was years behind in phone tech, whilst everyone else had had apps and Internet years before even on feature phones, not to mention the US not having seen smartphones before. And whilst Android has caught on since then, it's still not dominating in the way that it has outside the US.

      1. ScissorHands
        Thumb Down

        Re: This is US only, not at all representative of worldwide (also means that Apple aren't #1)

        Downvoted because Nokia's WP play was sold as "we've got to crack the USA" - not with WP, you won't!

        1. Mark .

          Re: This is US only, not at all representative of worldwide (also means that Apple aren't #1)

          Yes, I covered that in my post - it's fair game to note that Nokia/WP still haven't cracked the US market ("Nokia still haven't broken into the US market, despite them hoping to with WP"). And yes, if their reasoning for ditching Symbian was to crack the US market, it's also a bad move. But we have an article conflating US sales with the worldwide market, and many comments doing the same.

      2. Longtemps, je me suis couche de bonne heure

        Re: This is US only, not at all representative of worldwide (also means that Apple aren't #1)

        I agree with most of your comment which is almost entirely valid, but one Nokia trick you have missed is that Nokia just re-designated their very cheap Asha feature phone as a smart phone. Gartner, IDC etc have never considered the Asha a smart phone and still don't, but Nokia are suddenly now saying it is.

        So the number of Nokia smartphones miraculously rockets, and it is easy for people then to make the false assumption that Windows Phone is the cause of the rocketing sales.

        1. Mark .

          Re: This is US only, not at all representative of worldwide (also means that Apple aren't #1)

          Asha is a smartphone - how is it not? The weird thing is why manufacturers continue with the odd "feature" label (no, it might not be as good as a high end smartphone, but neither is a cheap Android, or still-on-sale older iphone - it's like saying a £300 laptop isn't a laptop, as it isn't as good as my £1500 one).

          3rd party industry observers have included Asha (I forget which off hand, but this was why Nokia started counting it as a smartphone). Unlike Apple, who declared their dumb phone a smartphone, even when it couldn't run apps (something that feature phones did years earlier).

          Yes, it's a fair point to note that their recent growth has come much more from Asha than WP (although the latter still grows), but I'm not sure why people try to redefine Asha as not being a smartphone. Indeed, surely it's more damning of WP, if most of their smartphone growth is from another platform? (Also I wouldn't say it is either rocketing, or mysterious - up until recently, their smartphone sales were much higher - they went down as Symbian was phased out, now they're going up as they introduce new smartphone platforms.)

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What about.....

    ...the prices?

    Windows phones are pitched at Apple price levels.

    So why bother? Even Google nexus 4 are between £240 and £280. So who in their right minds would want to shell out Apple and Samsung flagship levels for the buggy handsets?

    Just wondering.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What about.....

      "So who in their right minds would want to shell out Apple and Samsung flagship levels for the buggy handsets?"

      Seems to have worked for Apple's buggy handsets all these years...

  14. Da Weezil
    FAIL

    Nokia Ended a near 15 year unbroken addiction to their handsets when they announced the ditching of symbian just as I was about to jump in. Glad I waited. I moved to a mix of Linux and Mac to avoid further exposure to windows - why would I add to the frustration on my phone?

    My phone is separate from my other devices, I don't want a pc in my hand, it has a different set of uses often due to the pricing and performance of UK networks. My Samsung does all I want and is a Redmond free phone.

    Are you sure that strangely surnamed individual isnt Mr Ratner in Disguise?

    Fail Because they drove away a whole household of Nokia Fans.

  15. TWOC
    FAIL

    Can't recommend Windows Phone even though I liked mine.

    I have got some Windows Phone 7 devices, but I can't recommend that anyone get into Windows Phone. You are likely to get a phone that doesn't support the latest OS. Nokia Lumia 900 is still a commonly available phone, but it's not even upgraded to version 7.8 yet! Who wants yesterday's technology today? Not me, and not any of my friends. Sorry, Microsoft, we don't like your terrible upgrade policies.

    1. EddieD

      Re: Can't recommend Windows Phone even though I liked mine.

      You've more or less voiced my feelings - I've got 5 months left on my contract, and I've got me a nice new Gmail account. Android certainly doesn't avoid the lack of updates though, unless you have a reference phone - I know a lot of people stuck on very old versions - older than Win7.5 - on their devices because their device maker/operator hasn't made the update available, and they're not technically literate or confident enough to mod it themselves.

    2. Charles Calthrop

      Re: Can't recommend Windows Phone even though I liked mine.

      Android updates are terrible too

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Can't recommend Windows Phone even though I liked mine.

        "Android updates are terrible too"

        Fandroids conveniently "forget" this fact

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Microsoft Bob

    Microsoft's problem is that it's been in the mobile game too long, and can't quit now.

    If people remembered how hey had a go at cracking he market back in he 90s with WinCE, and then abandoned it, it would be remembered like Microsoft Bob or Windows ME - An embarrassing dud but nohing more than a distant glitch along the way.

    But for them to quit now would really look like a mighty defeat, and a real wound to their image. Between that, the popularity of 'alternative' devices such as tablets and STBs, Windows 8 being seen as the bastard offspring of Vista being artificially inseminated by WinME, the decline of IE, flatlined desktop sales and every other dent to their core businesses, Microsoft could well look like a fading corporation accepting its time has passed.

    So it has to dogmatically keep plugging away at Windows Mobile in spite of every failure. Balmer may as well be sticking his fingers in his ears and saying "la la la I can't hear you" whilst hoping if MS just keeps its head down, all its problems will go away.

    The only two ways out I can see is to wait another ten years until mobile devices pack the same power as a reasonable desktop, and pretend to unify the various OSes when in reality they're just dropping Windows Mobile and running real WinNT on phones. Or, split up into separate companies, offering the desktop OS, mobile, Office, serverware, etc, and then let the mobile division perish whilst avoiding taking the blame.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Microsoft Bob

      > Microsoft's problem is that it's been in the mobile game too long, and can't quit now.

      No retreat from Stalingrad.

    2. Field Marshal Von Krakenfart

      Re: Microsoft Bob

      Windows CE + Windows ME + Windows NT = Windows CEMENT, the phones are "bricked" from the start.

      But I thought this was a news site, this is not news........

    3. El Andy

      Re: Microsoft Bob

      @AC09:06: "The only two ways out I can see is to wait another ten years until mobile devices pack the same power as a reasonable desktop, and pretend to unify the various OSes when in reality they're just dropping Windows Mobile and running real WinNT on phones. "

      Um, They've already dropped Windows Mobile and are running real WinNT on phones. No need to wait ten years at all.

  17. Jess

    What if the current Android manufacturers offered a choie on Linux Phones?

    Would it not be possible to offer the same handset with Android, Tizen, Ubuntu, Sailfish or Firefox? Ideally with easy reflash if you don't like the one you are using.

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge
      FAIL

      Re: What if the current Android manufacturers offered a choie on Linux Phones?

      And who would provide the support?

      1. Christian Berger

        Re: What if the current Android manufacturers offered a choie on Linux Phones?

        What support? Seriously what support do you get with your phone. If you are lucky you might get firmware updates for a while.

        If they wanted to support, they would have chosen to go for common hardware platforms so you can use common operating system images, just like it's done on the PC.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: What if the current Android manufacturers offered a choie on Linux Phones?

          No one in the tech world throws money at anything these days unless there is support (read as responsibility) for it. Thats been open source/linux's main problem all along.

          The risk assessment/share holders do not want the risk of investing in/buying something that you can pin someone down over if needed - be it security hole or whatever.

          So even if in your eyes you do not get "support", you do get someone you could take to court if needed.

          No phone manufacturer is going to offer the option of various OS's because they're leaving themselves too open on the risk front.

  18. darkbaron

    Mot surprising

    I have been sent a developer device by Nokia. Lumia 820 and I lasted less than 48 hours with it.

  19. Christopher Rogers
    Windows

    I'm gonna buy a Nokia WinPho8 device on Three's 4G network later this year. I'm bored of Android. I don't personalise it enough to give a damn. I only use a handful of apps. My experience of it on multiple devices is meh.

    1. Jonathan 29

      Bored

      I too am bored to death with Android and all its issues. It is telling that just about every app in Play has a series of reviews telling you that it works on X, but not on Y. I don't like all the ads and the poor carrier updates and the locked down OS that requires a root to remove carrier apps. I can't help wondering how many others will be looking for alternatives when their contracts expire.

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: @CR

        Good grief, they've got the shill-bot working well - this one logs into multiple accounts and replies to its own posts.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: @CR

          And it auto-downvotes too. Awesome! Is there an XAML version?

          1. Christopher Rogers
            Paris Hilton

            Re: @CR

            Class, an AC bot that thinks its adding to the conversation.

            How quaint.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Agreed, I'v a growing meh feeling towards android and especially the hardware vendors are offering android on. iOS just looks too dated now and still has the apple premium

      Overall for me hardware wins the day. I want a phone that will be 100% dependable as a phone (really really fed up of android's lock screen being unresponsive when I get an important call!), and I want it to have a great camera which no other manufacturer seems to come close on for contrast/colour accuracy and low light ability. So its gotta be a nokia going forward I think.

  20. RyokuMas
    Pint

    Is hell exothermic or endothermic?

    All this emphasis on market share puts me in mind of that age old story about the above exam question (found here for those who may not have read it).

    How much of a change in market share is attributable to actual changes in unit sales of the phone/system in question, and how much is due to changes in total units sold of all phones/system in the market?

    It is entirely possible that at this point in their lifecycle (approximately 2 years from launch) Windows Phones are selling more units that either Android or iPhone did at the same points in their lifecycle - equally, it is possible that they are not.

    What is certain is that at the two year mark of each of these systems' lifecycle, the market has been radically different, so I find that market share a very fuzzy measurement. Unless the market is new, it takes time to break into a market - Android took a good four years to hit its stride.

    So I would be very interested in knowing the unit sales for each system since launch and comparing on a year-by-year-since-launch basis.

    But the likelihood of getting accurate figures for Windows Phone sales? I think that Tim Graham has a better chance of bedding Theresa Manyan.

    1. Mark .

      Re: Is hell exothermic or endothermic?

      Indeed - and people forget just how poorly iphone sold in its early years, only really getting mainstream 2010-2011.

      (Plus remember, these stats are US only, so completely useless for info on worldwide share or sales.)

      I don't think I've seen total WP for Q4 2012 - for Nokia alone it was 4.something million.

      (I agree about the problems of "market share" - for years the media moaned about Nokia's "falling share", but actually their Symbian sales were not only increasing, but doing so at a faster rate - in absolute numbers - than iphone. But the media spun it so Apple were top, Nokia last. Funnily enough, now that Apple are in exactly the same situation with their ipads - falling share, but increasing sales - the media seem less keen to use this tactic...)

  21. Richard Cartledge

    They are OK, but they are late to the party and are just MS's take on existing ideas. Nothing new. There is also no room for another player unless they offer something new and radical.

    iPod & iOS drove Mac OS sales.

    Win 8 phone will not drive Win 8 sales as the sales are small and win 8 desktop won't drive win 8 mobile sales as the sales are small so they are in a catch 22 disadvantage.

    The best thing would have been to make Win 8 desktop more palatable and I think ordinary users would have enjoyed the seamless transition between Win 8 devices that is offered with MS ID login and skydrive.

  22. EvilGav 1
    Meh

    Failure?

    In the short term, almost certainly, but that's never been the MS way.

    They haemmoraghed (sp, cant be bothered checking) money with the X-Box, which took IIRC nearly 3 years to simply break even.

    This isn't about instantly being top-dog, it's about the long-term strategy. It's largely the same strategy is Apple - get them onto the eco-system, make that work seamlessly and don't let go.

    Microsoft want you to have a desktop, a phone and an X-Box, with your Live! account on all of them.

    What would be interesting to know is what the contract Nokia have with MS states regarding exclusivity.

  23. Christian Berger

    It broke with expectations

    The people who were looking forward to Windows Phone were expecting it to be a bit more like Windows. Microsoft would mandate some common hardware standard and you could update your operating system independently of your hardware vendor. People expected that device to be independent of the "cloud".

    However this has never happened. What's left is a system which is at least not much better than Windows CE, but carries all the cruft of a full blown Windows.

  24. MelniboneanAirways
    Pint

    What will be will be

    Having read the comments I find myself wondering why people get so animated and revel in the apparent difficulties of a given OS.

    Many people like IOS, many people like Android, many people (yes relatively less according to the myriad of analysts keen to tell us - for a price/agenda) but nonetheless many people also like Windows Phone 8.

    One's liking of an OS doesn't negatively impact nor imply foolishness of anothers fondness for a different OS.

    Lets all just peace out and enjoy the current variety we have on offer and hope that we continue to enjoy such in the future.

    Currently running Lumia800, ticks my boxes as I like the smaller form factor and visually find the OS compelling and my Dell Venue Pro (first gen Winpho7) got updated yesterday which was a nice surprise.

    I've also run with an SII for a good while which I was thoroughly impressed with and my old iPhone still works great and is a good loaner when required and the new Blackberry OS has my attention, some nice ideas in there, although the Z10 does look awfully like... ;)

    P.S - Eadon get some serotonin reuptake inhibitors. stat. I don't think Ballmer is reading these dude, relax. Have a pint.

  25. JimmyPage
    FAIL

    The art of the bleeding obvious ..

    This isn't the 90s, or even the 2000s. The market dynamic has changed - forever. Nobody (and I mean NOBODY) I know is in any kind of hurry for a *new* smartphone. I have my (works) Win7.8 HTC. My lad has a Nokia 5800, and wifey[1] has her HTC Android. The only person I know who does regularly update their phone is the (retired) mother in law. Who's drunk the Apple kool-aid, so will only get the latest iPhone.

    So Win8, Win9, Win10 with four "M's" and a silent "Q" are a total and utter irrelevance.

    It's the same for desktops. We're all running 4 year old machines, with Win7. Absolutely no need to upgrade.

    There's a certain schadenfreude here. Your Microsofts and Apples et al had a field day when the IT landscape was new, unknown, and scary. But it's evolved into a mature market now, and all those old-fogies who were left behind by the tech rush are now your greatest assets, as they are much more familiar with working in a mature market. If you want to sell Windows8, you need to get someone who's successfully sold cheese, or pot noodles on board - they'd have a better idea than someone who's only ever done tech.

  26. fishyuk

    Amusing that the US is seen as an arbiter of good taste only when it suits...

    It might not be doing well in the US, no doubt because the best 920 option is way too heavy for the average american blogger to cope with. Seems to be doing significantly better in the rest of the world, UK figures are geting better and relatively strong growth in the rest of Europe. Perhaps a slightly lower corn syrup intake in Europe allows the strength to cary a whole 60g extra weight in the hand?

  27. Zap

    A message for Microsoft

    Microsoft was starting from SO far behind that it had to do something mega to win market share.

    We all know that Apple shafts you good and proper where the sun don't shine, Samsung is charging way over the odds, i.e. I would rather pay less for Apple's last model than pay for a Galaxy III.

    So rather than wasting 3bn on Dell what Microsoft needs to do is subsidise the Win8 phones so that they can be sold for a song, people will realise that they are actually quite a decent phone and start raving about them, then the price can slowly increase.

    Of course there are laws about this sort of thing so it comes down to offering a better contract, e.g. a Nokia 820 for FREE with umlimited text, 1gb Data and 500 mins talk time for £10 a month for 36 months. But also to include 0845, free texts to shortcodes and free calls to voicemail. So yes the contract is longer which means they keep the customer for longer and they differentiate themselves by including those annoying extras.

    Another example would be the same as above but £15 a month for unlimited talk time or £20 a month to include EU and cheap countries by routing over Voip.

    Like any competitve situation, they have to offer something compelling, it would really shake up the market which has become a bit too complacent.

    1. Richard Plinston

      Re: A message for Microsoft

      > Microsoft was starting from SO far behind that it had to do something mega to win market share.

      Windows Mobile had a 42% market share in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Mobile#Market_share

      > Microsoft needs to do is subsidise the Win8 phones

      It is subsidizing them to the tune of $1billion a year that it is sending to Nokia. That is about $100 per phone.

      > so that they can be sold for a song

      They have been discounted and remaindered, especially the WP7 phones.

      > e.g. a Nokia 820 for FREE with umlimited text, 1gb Data and 500 mins talk time for £10 a month for 36 months. But also to include 0845, free texts to shortcodes and free calls to voicemail.

      I am sure that many businesses are glad that you are not in their marketing department. But then your grasp of economics shows that you are probably 12, and think that Santa Claus is real.

This topic is closed for new posts.

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2022