I'm so excited
And I just can't hide it
I'm about to lose control...
Microsoft has announced the next major push in its Surface consumer hardware campaign, including the launch date of Surface Windows 8 Pro, the Intel-powered big brother to the ARM-based Surface Windows RT fondleslab that debuted in October. In a press release on Tuesday, the software giant said its latest tablet will arrive in …
It's not hard.
1. This device needs 8GB of RAM, 4GB is fine most of the time but sometimes it isn't, RAM is cheap but you can't put any more in this device so the manufacturer should include it.
2. The keyboard should be bundled, it's a major selling point of the device without it it's just a very expensive tablet with a limited supply of apps. If you're not bundling it then it should be $50 tops.
3. The SSD should be 128GB or 256GB, 64GB is going to disappear very quickly when you've got a full install of Windows. My laptop has a clean windows install and it's using 20GB, the surface pro will have a recovery partition using a similar amount. By the time you've installed Office and you're only starting at the formatted capacity of the SSD you're going to have about 10GB left for files.
My laptop is old and clunky and I'd definitely replace it with a surface if this stuff was solved, but the main problem with my current laptop is that it is maxed out at 2GB of RAM so I'm not going for anything that can't be upgrade to or comes with 8GB to start.
4Gb is fine. Mainstream desktops are still shipping with 4GB as standard, W8 is supposedly more efficient, the SSD will make swapping WAAAY faster, and ultimately the kind of apps which need 8GB are not the kind of thing you should be running on a tablet.
Kind of with you on the SSD except that for regular users, 64 probably is fine... meaning non techy types. With you on the keyboard.
Note though that this is really a reference device, anyone can make their own competing device since all this is is an ultra-slim touch PC. You'll have to wait for someone to make a beefier version.
> the kind of apps which need 8GB are not the kind of thing you should be running on a tablet.
>But then why bother with an Intel processor?
The quantity of software that requires Windows on an x86 processor but is very happy on 4GB or less:
I've rarely come close to that limit, with multi-layered high res Photoshop documents, CAD, a rendering package and far more Chrome tabs open than I need.
>>But then why bother with an Intel processor?
Well my main PC has 4Gb. I run Visual Studio, Word, Excel, Paint.net, a bunch of games, etc. MOST software doesn't need more than 4Gb, other than games and art tools. You could even run Photoshop or 3DS-Max on 4Gb (for limited complexity projects).
"RAM is cheap". True, but the margins on something like this are thin - even $50 on another 4GB of RAM could be more than half the profit.
"a recovery partition using a similar amount [20GB]". Why? An ISO for Windows 8 is 3.5GB, and you can, of course, do a full OS recovery from that. Any additional applications won't need a further 16.5GB.
I'd agree with most of this, but I reckon that the derisory 64Gb is a conscious decision and deemed really only for "local" storage. Micro$oft will "encourage" you to use MS Skydrive to hold the family jewels. After all, we know how reliable and nationally pervasive mobile broadband is, right?
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He lives! Rejoice! (I think?)... erm... we've all been terribly worried (-ish - see below).
Anyway, welcome back Eadon! Have a downvote.
PS Where were you? Not burying the corpse of RICHTO I hope? He's been worrying quiet lately too... despite lots of appearances of his favourite topic. I hope that's ketchup spattered on your sleeves... :O
I read the same sentence and had the same thought, surely we don't need both? but if the Pro is a "general purpose PC" then maybe we do, we just dont know it yet, have to wait for MS marketing dept. to tell us we need them. I also kind of want one, most people at work have either an iPad or Android device for home use and I always ask what they use it for, "ohh everything, its so much easier than using the laptop.." etc etc, I have my Xbox account, my hotmail account and SkyDrive so going down the Windows route would tie them all up quite nicely and I would not need to get another login for Apple or the Google Play store, but...what do I do with it??
@JDX: "I actually kind of want one, though damned if I know exactly why."
Because you, like many of us on here (myself included) are like Dug the dog from Up! when he sees a squirrel, only for us, the squirrel is new-to-market tech. In some ways it kind of doesn't matter if we actually have a use for it or if it's actually very good or better than other solutions. It's new, and shiny...
Boss just gave the go-ahead to order as soon as it is available. I've been enjoying the RT, but the inability to run Win32 apps was a bit constraining at times so the Pro looks to be interesting to evaluate. Although, I suspect as soon as I start using the Pro I'll largely stop using the RT so I'm dubious about "the perfect complement to the Surface Windows RT" thing.
I have a question... As its running Windows 8, which under all that finery is STILL using a system registry, it's presumably going to suffer the same system slow downs that all versions of windows have Ben affected with since the dawn of time (well win95 anyway)
What happens when the system becomes so cripplingly slow that you have to nuke and pave? Will it reinstall all your apps or is it going to be a PITA?
>What happens when the system becomes so cripplingly slow that you have to nuke and pave? Will it reinstall all >your apps or is it going to be a PITA?
You make a disk image (clone) to an external disk (or network resource) once you have your system as you like it- settings, software installed, nice wallpaper etc. In the event of registry clog, theft, a nasty virus or an act of dog, you recover your system from that image.
What do you currently use?
What happens when the system becomes so cripplingly slow that you have to nuke and pave?
Since switching to a SSD 4 years ago I haven't noticed Windows slowing down over time, so I wouldn't imagine that the Surface will, either. Plus, Windows 8 has some nice improvements in system backup & restore.
As a PC without a keyboard, it's an expensive tablet.
As a tablet *with* a keyboard, it would become a very attractive proposition.
I want to replace my now relatively big, a little slow and low res netbook with a tablet but want something that runs specific Windows apps I use (with no viable "linuxy" or droid alternative that I like) *and* absolute must have is a keyboard, but also could be used as a tablet, ideally nice and thin. Surface Pro fits the bill, but stupidly expensive.
"it's presumably going to suffer the same system slow downs that all versions of windows have Ben affected with since the dawn of time"
It's ok it starts off slow and stays that way, well Metro apps (or whatever they are called this week) anyway. On the Win 8 desktop even Libra Office (oft criticised for being bloated) loads in an instant, but the Metro apps such as Weather and Calendar sit there spinning the hourglass for eons - I know they are cloudy, but it's connected to a fast ADSL and no google services take more than a blink of an eye.
They should have called this something else. Surface hasn't gripped people, so now Surface Pro somehow will? I've got a Transformer at home and for briefly writing emails it's far better than an On Screen Keyboard using device. I don't even use the trackpad, the screen is actually better for a device that size though smeary screens is an annoying occurrence.
I just don't really get Microsoft's thought process with this all though. It's all such mixed messaging.
Phone 8 = A phone
Surface = A tablet
Surface Pro = A tablet which has the main selling point of actually being really a desktop, and it's as expensive as a laptop
Windows 8 = A desktop OS that's trying to make you forget really hard that it's actually not a tablet OS, by hiding you in the interface of one.
So the tablets trying to be a desktop, and the desktop is trying to be a tablet. Jebus. If we could have the desktop trying to be a desktop that'd be a start. Under the hood Windows 8 is alright, an improvement on Windows 7... in terms of the Task Manager, SSD improvements etc. It's silly text sized interface, even in desktop mode with heavy tablet focus on my desktop PC that has absolutely not capability for touch, and never will as I actually quite like my arms as they are is a bit of a square peg in a round hole.
Microsoft can't move away from its dependency on the registry because of all of the 3rd party apps that use it. However, the win 8 registry now automatically defrags the hives as they're loaded and keys are organised according to usage frequency. These factors reduce the disk and memory footprint of the registry and will improve its performance.
All registry access is via APIs, so Microsoft could easily move away if they wanted. However the registry is a pretty optimal, fast and effective solution and way ahead of legacy alternative solutions like zillions of flat text files, so I can't see why they would want to.
A bird? A plane? A ship? A rocket? Superman?..
Any chance of sparing us the grammatical ECT? Please?...
Microsoft's Intel-powered Surface Pro for launch in February?
Microsoft's Intel-powered Surface Pro to be launched in February?
...but wait!.. there's more!... the new grammwow™ can even jiggle those original nine words into a grammatically competent statement! ...and save two whole keystrokes in the process!..
Microsoft to launch Intel-powered Surface Pro in February
...but wait!... Order now and you could qualify for our special limited-time offer to convert those two saved keystrokes into unique and appropriate accessories... Yes, that's right!... If you call within the next thirty seconds, we'll convert those two keystrokes into a matching set of custom hand-crafted inverted commas!...
Microsoft to launch Intel-powered "Surface Pro" in February
Order now! This once-in-a-lifetime offer is too good to last! Quotation marks limited to the first five hundred callers.
Grammwow™ is not recommended by physicians. Side-effects include insertion of tongue into cheek, anal leakage and sudden account termination syndrome. Always enjoy grammwow™ responsibly.
>That kind of ignorance, and grammatical error, is just as irritating as the examples quoted.
Knowledge != ignorance
Knowledge != "grammatical error"
Poor consideration, sometimes, but ECT is an extremely widely understood acronym. Why not test that? Highlight ECT then right-click on it and search... see what you get! If you're too ignorant to read common acronyms, too illiterate to realise that etcetera doesn't follow an adjective and too indolent to use a search engine, then you probably shouldn't be tangling with a grammar pedant. Consider yourself schooled young Turk.
You're being a prick, I didn't suggest it was anything to do with etcetera, I was well aware it was an acronym. However my point was that using an acronym, which isn't well known, and then being a grammar nazi about it is just you acting like an arsehole. Your comment that I should use a search engine to prove your point, that it is well known, does not stand up too scrutiny. That would only prove that ECT has a standard meaning, not a well recognised one.
You don't understand!
There are many people, and especially technical people, who continue to reject the notion that the disciplines concerned with social and cultural re-engineering, like marketing and political easing, can have anything to contribute, except perhaps peripherally, to the development of a new hermeutics of language. Still less are they receptive to the idea that the very foundations of their worldview must be revised or rebuilt in the light of such re-engineering. Rather, they cling to the dogma imposed by the long post-Enlightenment hegemony over the Western intellectual outlook, which can be summarized briefly as follows: that there exists an external world, whose properties are independent of any individual human being and indeed of humanity as a whole; that these properties can be described by ``meaningful'' grammatical laws; and that human beings can obtain reliable, albeit imperfect and tentative, knowledge of the inherent meaning of a phrase by hewing to the ``objective'' procedures and epistemological strictures prescribed by the (so-called) textual (and contextual) analysis.
But deep conceptual shifts within twentieth-century science have undermined this Cartesian-Newtonian metaphysics; revisionist studies in the history and philosophy of science have cast further doubt on its credibility; and, most recently, feminist and poststructuralist critiques have demystified the substantive content of mainstream Western communicative practice, revealing the ideology of domination concealed behind the façade of ``grammatics'' and ``morphology''. It has thus become increasingly apparent that grammatical ``knowledge", far from being objective, reflects and encodes the dominant ideologies and power relations of the culture that produced it; that the truth claims of sentence structure are inherently theory-laden and self-referential; and consequently, that the discourse of the community of linguistic "enforcement", for all its undeniable value, cannot assert a privileged epistemological status with respect to counter-hegemonic narratives emanating from dissident or marginalized communities. These themes can be traced, despite some differences of emphasis, in Aronowitz's analysis of the cultural fabric that produced, inter alia, quantum mechanics; in Ross' discussion of oppositional discourses in post-quantum science; in Irigaray's and Hayles' exegeses of gender encoding in subliminal televised messages; and in Harding's comprehensive critique of the gender ideology underlying the sciences of communication in general and marketing in particular.
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>It'll be interesting to see if their vision becomes a reality; merging the fondle tablet and keyboad/mouse desktop genres. Time will tell weather it flops or flies.
Throw in the wildcard of touchless human input- MS have researched this, LeapMotion are gathering interest (and have just signed a deal with Asus to incorporate it into laptops).
I say wildcard, cos it might be that people don't want to wave their hands in the air. Time will tell, as you say.
So we've already got people who look like twonks talking to themselves thanks to bluetooth hands-free headsets for phones, and now we're gonna have gesture recognition perhaps with people twitching and pulling odd gestures like Marcel Marceau on ice.
In days gone past people got locked in the loony bin for less...
as far as I can see, but Microsoft lost momentum. It will take a while to see which of the candidates eventually will get the professional business market share with tablets. At the moment, Android is still upcoming and Apple has a good footing in business. If Microsoft can catchup on this one, Android could easily become a marginal player with tablets for business use.
I'd like to see some success in business with this.
At present iPad is dominant, but that usually comes down to a sales persons or managers individually choosing them. Most don't have the "IT Department" stamp of approval as they don't have the integration, security or access control.
Still can't help but feel one of the other posters is correct, M$ has lost a lot of momentum on this. It didn't help that they decided to screw other a lot of users and push it as Desktop OS whilst removing the "Desktop" features such as Start Menu etc.
@K, re: "removing the "Desktop" features such as Start Menu"... since starting to use Win8 as my home desktop OS a couple of months ago, I've started to take note of how often I use the Start menu when using my Vista/7 work desktops. The answer is - not very much at all, actually. The only time I go into the Start menu most days is (ironically) when I'm shutting down. Once the machine is set up with Desktop shortcuts, the Quick Launch bit of the toolbar, etc, what do you (or 'the average user', if you're not average) really need the Start menu for?
Like a lot of people have said already, the lack of a Start menu was a bit disconcerting to start(!) with, but I soon got used to it. One has to suppose that a Microsoft spent at least an afternoon or two on usability testing, so perhaps they came to the same conclusion.
Personally I agree, also if I need a Start Menu, I'll just download Start8..
But we are tech savvy - Your average 20-60 year old employee is far from that, give them Windows 8 and they will click round and eventually get frustrated as everything has changed and they can't find anything. (Also the argument that younger employees can work it out is crap, I work for a company were 90% employees are between 20-25, and most of them can barely switch a computer on (Not saying they are morons, just 99% of their lives revolve around a browser and little else!).
Now imagine if you had 200 similar employees. Are you really going to roll out Windows 8? It would anger employees, put a training burdon on IT staff and more importantly reduce the productivity of staff.
I take your point, absolutely, I just don't think it's such a major fail as people are making out, and I specifically think that about the loss of the Start menu. XP to Vista also changed the look of lots of aspects of the UI, as did the Ribbon, etc. I remember being sent on a training course many years ago when my company introduced Win95 where they explained what the funny little 'X' at the top-right of each window was for. No company is going to roll out Win8 without that sort of basic familiarity training, and I doubt any company would roll out Win8 in the next two years regardless of the UI changes, by which time many users will have learnt how to use it outside of their work environment. There are only four or five new things that a basic user needs to know, after all - how to get to the Start screen and back to the desktop, how to shut down/hibernate, how to change passwords, how to use the search box - half a day's training at most?
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0.91kg - not a chance. Get better significantly better specc'd megabooks (or whatever the term for them nowadays) that weigh only slightly more for less. And here's me waiting to spunk € 1000 on something to replace the 2.5 kg Thinkpad I have to lug around too often.
@El Reg - the copy seems to suggest that the Intel graphics is better than Nvidia's Tegra. While the Intel Core i5 certainly is beefier than the Tegra, the least said about Intel's graphic chips, the better.
@Dave, thanks for the info. I wasn't really bitching about the HD4000, just about the copy which could be read to put Intel's graphic unit up against Nvidia. The combination of i5 and the HD4000 is certainly significantly more powerful than a Tegra 3 but that is down to the i5. Be interesting to see real world comparisons of the HD4000 against the Nvidia in tablet space, including power draw, of course.
I do have one question - WTF are people going to have 4k chips in their tablets for? Unless I've missed something they don't have the outputs that can drive the screens. That means paying for more silicon to sit there and draw power while doing nothing. I suppose that allows manufacturers to do the usual castration and sell two lines - one over-specc'd and over-priced and another, under-specc'd and still over-priced.
C'mon Google, quit farting around with Chrome OS and come up with a notebook flavour of Android!
""most games"? HD4000 isn't supported by The Witcher 2"
My experience with Intel GPUs is they've improved a lot from the early days to the point that they are capable of running most games on the lowest settings. Most does not mean all, but it does mean they're not entirely useless.
It may be that The Witcher 2 is a particularly demanding game, or simply hasn't been optimized for low end GPUs, or has bugs which don't manifest themselves on other chipsets / drivers, or the Intel driver is bugged. I know from experience that writing shaders that work well on different GPUs can be an enormous pain in the arse at the best of times so all of these are feasible reasons it doesn't work.
Sorry Charlie but as someone who works with 3D rendering, the modern Intel graphics chips are a world apart from the ones a few years ago. Full DX10/11 support, etc. It won't be great compared to a discrete fat GPU but then neither is any other option. Integrated graphics - Intel/iPad/etc - are surprisingly capable these days.
Compared to the Intel HD Graphics 3000 in Sandy Bridge CPUs, the HD 4000 card was completely redesigned and offers improved DirectX 11 capable shaders, Hardware Tessellation, a dedicated level 3 cache... ...In the slower i7-3610QM and a dual core i5 it was on a similar level as the Radeon 6620G. Therefore, casual gamers that wont mind reducing the quality settings in high end games, may be happy with the performance of the HD Graphics 4000.
The integrated video decoder called Multi Format Codec Engine (MFX) was also improved and should allow even simultaneus 4K video decoding.
Another new feature is the support for up to 3 independent displays (depends on how the HD 4000 is used in the laptop - maybe only with a DisplayPort / eDP).
Due to the 22nm 3D Tri-Gate production process, the power consumption should be relatively low (the development was focused on performance per Watt).
Things do change, you know.
Nah, that wasn't what I said.
In this Surface Pro device - which is not being sold as games machine or CAD workstation- the HD4000 is fit for purpose. It plays most games well enough though, is fairly frugal, and can transcode feature-length 1080 movies with hardly any CPU load in 15 minutes.
It might not be fantastic, but it isn't shitty.
The reason I picked up on your comment is that it appeared to be based on your experience with earlier Intel GPUs- which were shit. However, the benchmarking sites reckon the HD4000 is a significant move forwards from the previous generation- though obviously not perfect. .
I've used it in a passively cooled 100% silent machine, and it's good. I'm not saying its suitable for all machines and users (and it isn't ideal for me), since of course they may have greater demands, both in terms of raw power and driver support.
A few key points, some of which build off of points already made by others:
1. As a tablet, this is priced beyond what the market will bear. $1000 and up is too expensive. Anyone remember the Cisco Cius? Battery life is reported to be in the 5-hour range. ... but...
2. If the Surface PRO is being positioned as a laptop replacement, then the price and battery life is not too far off the rest of the laptop market. ... but...
3. On the other hand, as a laptop replacement, the keyboard and mouse become mandatory so the price really starts around $1200, plus a couple of hundred for Office so we're looking at $1400-$1500 tablet/laptop. For that kind of money, you could get a decent laptop AND a decent tablet. No compromises.
I'm sorry, but this thing is over-priced and under-batteried for the uses that tablets are best for, and it is over-priced and under-storaged (possibly under-powered also) for the uses that laptops are best for. The flexibility of the Surface allows it to compete in both the tablet and laptop segments, but it is a mid-tier player at best in both. Will there be a new segment defined by the surface? I don't think so. The market is heading in the other direction.
I'm curious why there was no mention of the Intel Atom-based Surface in this article. To me, that one looks more like the sweet spot with a better balance of the key parameters.
P.S. Please congratulate me on not making this another operating system debate. My own personal bias is that even if the Surface were a new god box, it would still be running Windows and Office so it still wouldn't interest me – but others feel differently so that isn't the argument on whether the Surface Pro is a decent product.
Once upon a time, dweebs would upgrade their processor, mobo, and ram when the clock speed doubled, and the price arrived at a sensible median.
Maybe I'm old fashioned, but until I see a means to drastically improve my productivity on the pc front, I'm going to spend my beer tokens on storage and backups.
Nowhere in the slablet flimflammery and ultrabook hype do I see much more than the constant reinvention of alloy rims and spoiler kits..
Office, web, and entertainment playback reached their resources sweet spot on the pc platform a few years ago, and it seems to me that manufacturers are now obsessed with bells, whistles, and exterior design, to butter the egos (and rinse the wallets) of those who want a consumerist lifestyle accessory, rather than build a solid piece of kit that just works transparently. I don't care if a gizmo is pretty. I just want it to work smoothly until it's obsolete, and allow me to tinker under the bonnet from time to time to get a performance boost...
The only interesting aspect of this new toy is the screen res. And that isn't likely to inspire me to spunk a grand on it when a/ there's a bluddy great big recession going on, and b/ it's woefully underspecced in every other department.
I hope that won't prevent Steve Ballmer from cutting some fresh discodad shapes on the 9th of February. His meme-presence has been slipping of late.
It is priced like an expensive Ultrabook, but offers no advantages over it - you can get an Ultrabook with the same weight as the Surface Pro + cover and you'll get a better keyboard and better battery life. Only a moron who wants to buy a "tablet" because that's the trend but has no earthly idea what he'd actually do with it would buy one.
Oh....wait....I see, Microsoft is planning on selling millions of these to PHBs who don't know what I've written above...
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@Eadon - if Windows natively supported ssh, cretins like you would scream "anti-trust" and have it taken out.
As it is, how many ssh clients are there? All free to download? All a matter of user choice?
Now please, just go. away.
Icon meaning "you would never believe how sick I am of this absolute fucking retard troll" please.
It's an ultrabook that can't hold it's display up without a kickstand and features a compromised keyboard because it's actually an expensive cover.
Or it's an expensive tablet that has an OS on it that once past metro leans towards needing a keyboard and mouse. Has to have high battery draining specs in order to run that OS and thus compromises it's position as an effective tablet.
It's a mess.
My MBP was $1200. + $100 for the terabyte hard drive and + $120 for the 16 gig of ram I added later. I get an easy 8+ hours of battery life web browsing and a keyboard you can actually type on, not a novelty soft cover. And I can easily add Windows anytime I like should I ever find a use for it.
The point is I have as much in my MacBook Pro as anyone would have this tablet. And that's not acceptable. The Surface is too much money for a computer that is too limited. This is a niche product at
And I'll get thumbed down. But a touchscreen laptop is just dumb, And so far sales seem to bear me out on this.
Expect the next wave of Android tablets to up their game even further giving the same experience for less than half the money. Yes blah blah legacy apps but try running them on tablet windows and you are going to have an excruciating experience as they are not design for touch. As for office meh, who need such a bloated word processor and calculator ?
I really want one of these, but it's just too damn steep.
To those worried about the RAM, don't be. I've got a Dell Mini 9 with 1Gb of RAM which is running Windows 8 for basic browsing/office quite happily. I also have a desktop with 12Gb RAM that rarely goes over 2.5 through normal use (non-gaming/visual studio).
If the keyboard was part of the package for the same price...maybe, but I'm not paying another $130 (which will translate to £130) for a keyboard, no matter how good it may be.
$999 is £770-ish (including taxes; no keyboard) add the keyboard and the device weighs in at a smidge under £900 (again with taxes included).
The ASUS Transformer Infinity (with keyboard) is around £715, but the Surface Pro has more juice.
A similarly spec'd Clevo would come it at £750-ish; but it's hard to get a like-for-like match.
For comparison, a Lenovo ThinkPad Twist is £940 with 128GB SSD, but a lower res screen.
So all in all, whilst it might be towards the high-side, the price isn't too bad for a mid range, enterprise ultrabook (which is what this is).
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...so it must be pricing/marketing/features/management by MSFT aka Ballmer et al.
Again, the mandatory read:
How Microsoft Lost Its Mojo: Steve Ballmer and Corporate America's Most Spectacular Decline
Once you've read this article you'll understand why it's impossible to fix MSFT while Balllmer and his ilks are running it - they MUST GO, ASAP.
And the entire planet struggles to give a fuck.
Although...it might be nice to install GNU/Linux on to it (assuming drivers can be found) as the design of the hardware (if not the specs) is pretty nice. Being x86 based, it must be possible by MS's diktat to disable SecureBoot/add keys.
I think I'll say "pass" and buy one ultrabook instead, to cover both bases
nah, I'll buy just a cheapo laptop, and a cheapo tablet, that'll save me a couple of hundred quid...
actually, I already have a cheapo tablet... ok, so just a cheapo laptop!
and I have a laptop. Granted, it's ancient, like.... 4 years old or something, but it still comes with 4 Gb of RAM, and I changed the hdd to sdd last week, goes like a charm. And since I bought a Windows 7 upgrade disk a few years back (good move!), now I'm running a 64-bit version. Yes, the battery's fucked, despite careful management, so what, I still have my cheapo tablet to take with me. It's a perfect complement to my cheapo laptop, and both cover my bases, entirely, and will do, for the next few years :)))
Hey Normal People, what would you like?
a) A trendy cool iPad for slabfondling, and perhaps a compact lightweight keyboard to go with it for more serious inputting
b) A trendy cool Ultrabook for more serious use indeed, and whip out your mobe for tabletty stuff.
c) Some unholy kludge from Microsoft, you know the boring uncool company that inflicts all that misery on you at work?
What I don't understand is how they're going to make HD graphics work with windows apps on such a small screen. Displayed at the native resolution, existing apps will be unusably small but if they do the iPad retina trick of presenting it to apps as half the resolution (960x540), they'll be too big to fit on the screen
When the Surface kit was announced, the “Pro” version was billed as coming with a “Type Cover”.. so removing a £100 item from the spec is effectively a price increase.
My guess is that the “pro” version is being re-positioned more as a desktop replacement (where the touch keyboard just doesn’t cut it) than a hybrid tablet, and will be followed up with a docking station
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Is it me or are people getting more and more gullible ?
unless your a moron or have a remarkably reduced genital set there just is no such thing as,..
- a phone, notebook or tablet that'll be out of date within 12 months and cost £500
- a car that's actually worth half a million
- a TV that'll be out of date within 12 months and cost £5000
these things only sell with such a high markup because some folk are dumb enough to believe the prices are reasonable, or are incapable to accurately value items - jus' sayin'
"Beginning soon, the devices will also be available in Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland – more than doubling the number of markets for Microsoft's own-branded kit."
They're likely hoping a doubling of the markets will equal a doubling of the sales. Unfortunately I can only see them failing to sell in twice as many places now. The price is far too high for what it offers especially when you factor in the cost of the keyboard cover. As others have said many times it costs more than, for example, an iPad, Nexus 10 or the ASUS Transformer Infinity, offers far less functionality and has far fewer apps.
The only real selling point is the Windows tag but as it's based on an ARM architecture that means nothing. For some reason Microsoft think they can price it higher than competing products with less going for it. I don't know why they bothered with all the secrecy about it when they effectively killed it before it was available. It's a shame because even though I own other tablets it appealed to me but not at that price. The Surface 8 Pro (who picked that ludicrous name?!) is a better option but it's still priced too highly. It offers nothing over a high-spec laptop besides the display and while it's a great display it isn't enough to sell the product to me.
I'm seriously tempted to buy one of these when they come out, mainly because of the high-quality pen stylus input which I've not seen offered on any other tablet anywhere near this price point. Wacom sell a 12" display digitiser, the Cintiq 12WX costing 800 quid which the Surface Pro digitiser matches according to its published spec (600 dpi resolution, 512 pressure steps, pen angle sensing). That trounces a rubber nub stylus on the iPads and Android devices if you're interested in a mobile graphics editing device.
A US company, Modbook rebuild Apple laptops into a tablet form factor by integrating a Cintiq 12WX but they charge 3000 bucks for what the Surface Pro can do out of the box. I'll be interested to see if someone can Hackintosh OS/X onto the Surface Pro hardware or even run it in a VM under Win 8.
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I think a few people have missed the point here ...
The surface Pro is the worlds first full blown desktop PC at reasonably good desktop spec in tablet form.
Show me where you can get any other windows / mac / linux machine that weighs less than 1kg that will run any desktop built software on the market?
I'd love to see an iDevice of this grade, someone else raised a good point before me about the only other potential option of this type costing around £3,000 ... and yet people on here still complain about price?
Oh and surface sales figures are poor because no one can get one over here ... literally no one seems to have any stock ... when shops start stocking them Microsoft will start selling them.
That and ... it's Microsoft, they will sell, purely for that reason ... Micorsoft seem to have a way of making stuff sell weather we want it or not.
Oh and that douchebag up there saying Microsoft have never made a successful product ... xbox is still the biggest console in the world (based on sales figures) and windows xp was in it's time the biggest selling product in its class.
Some people need to learn to check their facts instead of blindly trashing a company because it already has a bad rep.
No i'm not a M$ fanboi i'm just bored of people of trashing Microsoft for simply existing over some shit they did like 20 years ago that was monopolistic.
Quit being so judgemental and see a little innovation ...
Why do people think this idea of "tablet computers" was first Apples idea ... Bill Gates was banging on about this in the 90's?
> Why do people think this idea of "tablet computers" was first Apples idea ... Bill Gates was banging on about this in the 90's?
Why do people think that MS is innovative when all they do is copy what has already been done and then talk about it more loudly than anyone else can:
The Momenta Pentop was released.
GO Corporation announced a dedicated operating system, called PenPoint OS, with control of the operating system desktop via handwritten gesture shapes.
NCR released model 3125 pen computer running MS-DOS, Penpoint OS or Pen Windows.
The Apple Newton entered development; although it ultimately became a PDA, its original concept (which called for a larger screen and greater sketching abilities) resembled the hardware of a tablet computer.
GO Corporation shipped the PenPoint OS for general availability and IBM announced IBM 2125 pen computer (the first IBM model named "ThinkPad") in April.
Microsoft releases Windows for Pen Computing as a response to the PenPoint OS by GO Corporation."""
Well said. I don't like MS's past naughtiness any more than the next man, or the thousand little annoyances I've encountered when using Windows. I wish desktop Linux well whilst looking on with interest with Valve/Steam Linux developments, since it might blaze a trail for commercial software to follow.
But I am very tired of the simplistic "Linux is great, Windows sucks" type posts, and the automatic knocking of Windows 8 by people who should easily be able to find a workaround to any UI-related hiccups.
Still, when this article headline mentioned new accessories for this Surface Pro, I did think a set of skateboard trucks and wheels would be cute : D
...at least that's what I think.
I mean, when looking at the comparison chart for the Surface RT and the Pro you'll notice quite a bit of differences, and I'm not only referring to the difference in price ($499 for RT vs. $899 for Pro).
For example; at least the RT comes with a Home edition of Office. Sure; its a stripped down Office since you won't be able to get Outlook functionality, but its still Office. The Pro version doesn't include such a thing, even though the price sits quite higher.
Also note how on that same comparison page they're actually trying to sell features which have nothing to do with the Surface itself but fully come from the underlying OS. I'm talking about stuff such as "security policy control" and "enhanced data protection capabilities using BitLocker technology". That's Windows 8 talking, not Surface.
And when you finally check the specific hardware features you'll notice the Pro does a lot less. "Always connected" (RT) vs. "Connectivity off when hibernating/sleeping to preserve battery.". Or "Get more done with up to 8 hours of battery life. Surface with Windows RT comes installed with Microsoft Office Home and Student 2013 RT Preview. 1" (RT) vs. (this is no joke:) "Surface with Windows 8 Pro supports the full Office experience. Run Outlook, Word, SharePoint Designer, PowerPoint and more. 2". Where the 1 points to a statement telling us that the full Office 2013 version will become available when its out and the 2 points to "Office products sold separately".
But like; why compare running time with the mentioning that Office products can run on it? Why not, for example, mention that it might have Agenda, Todo and e-mail functionality even when you don't have Office? And why not mention anything about battery life, is it really that bad?
The RT is neither tablet nor laptop, and out of the box not suited for business use even though it comes with Office. And the Pro may support regular software but in fact seems to provide even less functionality than the RT does (that is; unless you're willing to pay even more).
And for the price of one Surface Pro (or RT with keyboard) you can get yourself both a regular laptop and tablet at the same time; so always have the option to pick the best solution for the situation.
I'm not a believer here...
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Some good points from @ShelLuser and @Jon Green there:
That price point does feel like it needs more to really appeal to people ... I'm hoping that more happens to show off the Not Metro UI side of things more but it requires a big shift in thought patterns about computing with Microsoft products.
The key point being that Microsoft has always (in the past) pushed for the business customer and this time they are pushing for consumer market ... Companies like Apple have the benefit of being "designers by nature" so are used to making stuff look good which is at least in part why iDevices flew off shelves so fast, Microsoft however have always been technical problem solvers, the people that make your business do its thing ... they are used to solving problems not looking pretty.
I don't think Microsoft has worried too much about it's image in the past because it's had the benefit of dominating in its field ... all that is changing ... I'm looking forward to seeing more from Linux as a result of this type of thing.
The guys canonical (behind Ubuntu) have been talking about intel driven mobile devices that have dual touch / desktop UI's depending on weather the device is docked or in hand, this is something I can see working ... but i'm still waiting for linux to have a decent touch framework (android excluded - or maybe canonical can use that?).
Microsoft seem to have a habit of making stuff easy to do on their platform, something that again Linux has often fell behind with ... that catch up process for Linux is nearing it's end when you consider the innovation of the people behind technology in products like android it makes me think that there is more ... something has been missed ... a gap that needs closing.
I doubt this time round Microsoft is capable of doing it on their own ... as stated many times before, Microsoft are not really that good at true innovation (generally speaking although kinect shows promise), they simply buy a small up and coming company that is and use that to solve the problem, but with competition being what it is today Microsoft certainly can't keep taking that approach, it needs to learn to innovate ... maybe by buying a company that looks something like Apple from about 10 years ago?
But the biggest problem right now ... supply ... still not seeing the RT in shops round here ... despite plenty of demand ... I don't consider surface dead yet but it's long overdue that Microsoft started sorting out their distribution channels!
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