back to article Microsoft to end Windows 8 discounts on January 31

Say what you will about Windows 8; at least the upgrade from Windows 7 is cheap. Or it is for now. After January 31 will be a different story. Ever since Windows 8's October 26, 2012 launch, Microsoft has been offering retail Windows 8 Pro upgrade DVDs for $69.99. Online upgrades have been even cheaper, at $39.99. And …

COMMENTS

This topic is closed for new posts.
  1. Anomalous Cowturd
    FAIL

    Shooting themselves in the foot?

    Or both feet?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Shooting themselves in the foot?

      more like in the temple, from both barrels ;)

      1. kb
        FAIL

        Re: Shooting themselves in the foot?

        The reason for this is obvious and simple AC, for the past few years, since the release of WinPhone at least, Ballmer has cared about nothing but Wall Street and NOT the customer base.

        A sane CEO would look at the negative indicators across the board and not only not give people the choice of Win 7 or 8 to stop the bleeding but to more than double the price on a product they can't sell at $40? Well wall Street likes high priced products herpa de derpa de derp.

        The only nice thing I can say about Win 8 is thus: Windows 8 will finally get people to accept that Vista wasn't the mess they thought it was. At least with Vista by SP2 it worked quite well and as long as you turned off its hyper UAC bugging the snot out of you it was quite usable. With Win 8 frankly it needs a product recall as its BROKEN. I mean when most people need a Win 7 PC to Google how to do basic tasks like close metro apps in Win 8 or even shut down the PC? I mean who thought putting shutdown under the universal SETTINGS icon?

        Windows 8 will go down as the biggest disaster since WinME, maybe even as bad as Bob.

    2. This post has been deleted by a moderator

      1. elaar

        Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

        Was with you until "similarly to how they praised Windows 7 (a poor OS)"

        Regardless of how poor Vista and Windows 8 may be, 7 is actually a decent, stable OS. Please enlighten me specifically on why it is poor.

        1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

          1. Fuzz

            @Eadon Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

            "The directory layout is crap - "program files(86)" - Users/My Documents" etc. No! I want to work from a subdirectory that hangs directly off "C:\""

            how is the directory layout of Windows different to unix. On unix home folders are /home/username, on windows they're C:\users\username. On unix programs are installed in /usr or /usr/local or /opt depending on how they got there. In windows, programs installed properly are in c:\program files. On unix settings are stored in /etc on windows they're in the Registry. Data used by programs is in /var on unix and in c:\programdata on windows. Apart from the registry it's total stupidity to think that these system differ in much more than the names.

            "The Windows 7 file system is poor. It takes a long time to copy /manipulate files, relative to Linux / Mac etc. "

            NTFS is a very good filesystem, compared to ext4 it's amazing. I performed a live expansion of an ext4 filesystem the other day I need to grow a 6TB array by 1TB, it took 4 days. The same job on NTFS takes a few seconds. Also deleting files on ext4 is very slow compared to NTFS. Unlike you I'm not going to comment on the mac filesystem because I know nothing about it, it could be the greatest filesystem going but I don't know, because like you and Windows I don't use it.

            1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

              1. Jamie Jones Silver badge
                FAIL

                Re: @Eadon Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

                Eadon sounds to me like he's repeating anti-MS stuff he's heard others say.. He doesn't know what he's talking about, he's just repeating others opinions.

                Some of his points are actually correct, though he doesn't seem to understand why/how/what/where

                1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

              2. The Indomitable Gall

                Re: @Eadon Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

                @Eadon:

                "e.g. in 64 bit Win 7 you have both "Program Files" and "Programme Files(86) - and sometimes when hunting for a program (for, say "open with...") you have to search through one and then the other. It is one of many WTF's with the weird windows directory structure."

                Exactly. They've taken an infuriating halfway house, by introducing "libraries" as a virtual folder (so that "Documents" contains the entirety of "my documents" and "public documents", and whatever other "X Documents" I have available to me) but not extended that virtual folder metaphor to the place where it's most sorely needed: the program folders.

            2. Dave Lawton

              Re: @Eadon Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

              NTFS vs ext4

              Try this rough test.

              Using something you can remove the power to easily (simulated power cut).

              (If you want to be pedantic, create a checksum of some kind)

              Set off a file write, a large one, or a bunch of small ones, so you can be sure writing is taking place when power is removed.

              Report back with your results.

          2. Fihart

            Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

            @Eadon

            "The directory layout is crap - "program files(86)" - Users/My Documents" etc. No! I want to work from a subdirectory that hangs directly off "C:\"

            So right. At last someone else has highlighted one of my major gripes about Windows.

            Things like "My Computer" are merely subdirectories of C: Presenting Desktop, My Documents, My Computer as somehow not, let alone placing them higher in the display's listing than C: is bonkers.

            Like it or not, computers are about files and directories, devices and connections. Pretending that they are not (as per bloody Apple) is just to breed dumb users who can't fix stuff for themselves, so pester those who can.

            1. Richard 12 Silver badge

              Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

              How is that any different to the Unix way?

              Where exactly is /home? I mean really?

              It's somewhere in /dev/hdd, right? Or a network share or something.

              It's certainly not straight in the root!

              Those things at the top are just symlinks in both Windows and Linux.

              In Windows 7, you can finally create some of your own in the GUI, instead of cmd or Registry.

              1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
                Holmes

                Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

                > It's certainly not straight in the root!

                Actually it is. That's the whole point. It's a straight hierarchy. All your objects are in this hierarchy (even the devices, and last decade a lot of runtime and kernel stuff has shown up in places under /proc and /sys), you know the operations you can apply, you know where your current directory is, you know where you are when you go ..-wards. (Eliding the magic of ioctl, the fact that you have to tell users why you cannot cd to /dev/sda and my experience when I first wanted to "mount a floppy" in a Sparc IPC) You don't care about whether a directory (really, a provider of byte streams) is on a local disk, a mounted CD or on a network drive. It's an abstraction. That's the point of of having and OS. It's a clean abstraction. That makes the OS worthwhile.

                You may argue whether an inexperienced user needs an overlay on this view, but generally I don't think it's needed. Drive letters? ... well, it's an IBM idea. Nuff said. Plus, the bizarro overlay shown to unsuspecting users starting with XP File Explorer is frankly confusing. My what? Where? What for? And it seems to be getting worse.

                And don't get me started on the Redmond Implementation of symbolic links. Accumulated karma fused with bad design is the best description one can come up with.

                Where is the religious war icon?

              2. Euripides Pants
                Linux

                Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

                "Where exactly is /home? I mean really?"

                With apologies to Doctor Lizardo... /home is where you wear your /hat

            2. Daniel B.
              Boffin

              Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8. @Flhart

              "Like it or not, computers are about files and directories, devices and connections. Pretending that they are not (as per bloody Apple) is just to breed dumb users who can't fix stuff for themselves, so pester those who can."

              As much as Apple loves to hide stuff on their mobile fondleslabs, the directory structure on OSX is actually the same than that used in UNIX. / filesystem, anything else goes under that. Even the user homedirs are under /Users/xxxxxx, even if this breaks with the /home/xxxxx standard or /home/group/xxxxx one, it still looks UNIXy enough to work. AND they also use /dev, so my main disk is usually /dev/disk0s2. They "hide" stuff from common users, but it is there to be seen by savvy users as well.

              1. andy 45

                Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8. @Flhart

                Oh yes. OSX. That's the file system that gives us three, yes, three Fonts folders!! And multiple preference folders etc.

                Try searching for your Acrobat .joboptions when you cant quite recall where they lie, and then remembering that the OSX 'search' doesn't look in the system file without a sharp clip round the ear from at least a medium-lever user and a bit of googling...

          3. Jay Holmes

            Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

            Okay I was ignoring most of your rant, but the one bit I cant ignore is

            "it needs anti-virus (only Windows is susceptible to viruses)"

            Since when has Windows been the only OS susceptible to viuses???

            http://www.securelist.com/en/analysis/204792228/Monthly_Malware_Statistics_April_2012

            The main reason that Windows has the major share of the problem when it comes to viruses and malware is that, it is the most prevalent software on users computers. Compared to users who run Linux/Unix(insert flavour of choice here), or those who are running Mac OS(insert large cat of choice here) the numher of Windows PC users far outweighs the other two, so the majority of malware is written and designed to attack Windows.

            I personally don't like Mac OS, but I dont tare holes in it that I can't prove just because I dont like it!

            If you have something to say regarding the article then fine say it, otherwise shut the fuck up!!

            Can't understand why this is such a drama, most companies do this bring something in at an introductory price then a couple of months later put the prices up. Its how the world works

            1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

              1. Jay Holmes
                Pint

                Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

                Not confused in the slightest, but unlike you I gave the reasoning behind the amount of malware/viruses for Windows as opposed to other systems. You ignored that point completely, so when Linux distros or even Mac out number the amount of Windows installs feel free to revisit this as you will find that those tables will have turned.

                You seem to get confused very easily though. You think installing Linux is easy (so do I as a matter of fact) however try doing a side by side comparison with someone who has basic computer skills and you will find that Windows comes out on top every time, because of how easy it is to use. The majority of PC users are basic users so its time to face up to that little fact and deal with it, if everyone was a power user then you would find these forums a bit fuller and you would probably be drowned out!!

                A pint for the wishful thinking in my last sentance

              2. Another Anonymous Dutch Coward
                FAIL

                Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

                @ Eadon You are utterly clueless viruses require user interaction to propegate not trojans.

                A virus:

                "In order to replicate itself, a virus must be permitted to execute code and write to memory. For this reason, many viruses attach themselves to executable files that may be part of legitimate programs (see code injection). If a user attempts to launch an infected program, the virus' code may be executed simultaneously."

                A trojan:

                "A Trojan horse, or Trojan, is a non-self-replicating type of malware which appears to perform a desirable function but instead facilitates unauthorized access to the users computer system. Trojans do not attempt to inject themselves into other files like a computer virus. Trojan horses may steal information, or harm their host computer systems.[1] Trojans may use drive-by downloads or install via online games or internet-driven applications in order to reach target computers."

                Your statements regarding remote exploits for linux and mac are blatantly false to I suggest you go back to school.

            2. William Old
              Linux

              Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

              "The main reason that Windows has the major share of the problem when it comes to viruses and malware is that, it is the most prevalent software on users computers."

              There's little point in pointing out (yet again) that this is urban myth, because it is evidence that Jay doesn't actually understand the fundamental difference between a virus (specifically) and malware (generally).

              Jay, once you have grasped the concept of self-replication - not possible in a Linux system, because there are no mechanisms by which this can occur - come back and re-join the technical debate, with the understanding why there are no Linux viruses.

              And please don't mention the "Linux anti-virus software" peddled by the snake oil salesmen or (guffaw) mention Clam AV... only noobs don't realise that Clam AV is a (pretty good) open source Linux package for detecting and quarantining Windows malware from mail passing through Linux mail servers...

              1. Toggi3
                WTF?

                Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

                There are 'Linux' viruses, there are 'Linux' worms, there are definitely 'Linux' rootkits and malware. Sure, many of them require retooling due to the heavy fragmentation of the ecosystem, and they are often closed relatively quickly compared to how things work in the land of Redmond, but they exist. It is a highly targeted system because of its big iron presence, where have you been for the last decade?

          4. Anonymous Dutch Coward
            Happy

            Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

            "Windows uses back slashes in its diretory paths - a total annoyance, and not consistent with the web or unix etc that use forward slashes."

            Please, no more, I have trouble controlling my bladder as I'm rolling on the floor laughing!

          5. jonathanb Silver badge

            Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

            "It has a poor driver model (each hardware device usually wants a specific driver installing)"

            Huh? Is that any different from any other operating system?

            "It only runs on Intel."

            Not that much of a problem for its target market of Intel computers. Previous versions have run on Power PC, Sparc, Alpha and Itanic. Nobody wanted to buy them.

            "The directory layout is crap - "program files(86)" - Users/My Documents" etc. No! I want to work from a subdirectory that hangs directly off "C:\""

            You can work from a c:\ subdirectory if you really want to. Other operating systems have similar directory structures, albeit with different names.

            "Also, compared to, say OSX or Linux operating systems, Windows 7 has an utterly terrible command line. Unix command line is simply a must-have for power-users."

            Have you tried PowerShell? Certainly it's not the same as Bash. I find it does somethings better, some things not quite so well, but overall much the same.

            1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

              1. Jamie Jones Silver badge
                FAIL

                Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

                Eadon, oh Eadon...

                You are really not helping us unix users or the linux users...

                The only characters unusable in a unix filename are "/" and NULL. Don't you dare say that is a disadvantage!

                I once worked for a company and discovered that one of the support staff would rename any users 'folders' if they had characters like a space or single/double quote, or a * etc.

                I say 'folders' because the users didn't get a shell, they were locked into this office-type application that let them create folders (i,e, directories) without any spurious restrictions.

                bash - yes, it's over 30 years old now, but it too is not 'standard' unix. It doesn't come with my unix system, although it can be installed. You are probably thinking of the much more simplistic "sh", which bash was written to be a super-set of.

                memory use / disk response -- yes, both are poor in windows, and are somewhat linked. But it's not just a matter of filesystems, it's got to do with memory management, intelligent data caching and queueing, and where to actually place a file on the disk... The other side of the coin involves the rather convoluted way that windows still uses swap files, which just adds an unnecessary protocol layer on what is meant to be FAST.. Does windows still actually fragment it's swap file? I've not checked lately,

                Your point about viruses was so crudely made that you rightly got shot down - it's far more complicated than that,

                Finally, remember that linux is not unix. I've never used a machine with an /opt partition, and only install BASH on the servers on request from others. I have nothing against bash, but tcsh does it for me. Remeeber, it's not all linux out there!

                As a parting shot, isn't it true that linux is trying to depreciate /dev for "udev" because they couldn't get devfs working correctly?

                Similarly, ALSA was conceived because they couldn't get their OSS implementation to work properly (real time audio / in-kernel channel mixing and individual volumes per source -- all done in software if the sound card couldn't do it in hardware)

                If Linux had implemented OSS correctly from the beginning we wouldn't now be swamped with all these sound daemons adding an extra layer to the mix (esound/arts etc.)

                Anyway, I'm not here to bash (pun intended) linux, but your posts give the MS fans lots of ammunition to throw back at you

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

                  @Jamie

                  You are spot on there... as someone who encourages Linux use in our organisation my first priority is to be utterly honest and even-handed. All technology has its strengths and weaknesses, and it's part of my job to translate that into terms that are useful to someone who is making a purchasing decision.

                  The fractured state of the Linux desktop makes it impossible to recommend at present because it's impossible to know which variant(s) are still going to be here in 5 years' time. I have the same sort of doubts about TIFKAM so sadly the recommendation boils down to a Mac for those who have the money, W7 for those who don't, and Linux on the server.

                  The knee-jerk anti-MS stuff feeds the perception of Unicologists as blinkered zealots rather than a source of well-reasoned advice... Eadon please cut it out and give the Beast of Redmond credit where credit is due.

                  1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

                      @Eadon

                      > The desktop will be different in 5 years time on all systems. In the microsoft world they've just gone from Win 7 to Win 8 with a wildly different UI, so your point back fires on you. Windows is far more fractured than Linux, you have XP, Vista, Win 7 and Win 8 with wildly different UI's

                      So riddle me this: which of the following should be recommended to new Linux users:

                      * Gnome

                      * KDE

                      * LXDE

                      * XFCE

                      * Unity

                      * MATE

                      * Cinnamon

                      There you have it, a greater variety of UIs than Windows has *ever* had - but all of these are current offerings on an OS that has minimal market share, and each has its loyal tribe of followers. How is it possible to advise a newbie which of these they should invest their time in getting up the learning curve on, with any degree of assurance that within 5 years they won't be forced to learn something else (in which case they won't be coming back for more advice)? At least the Mac has only really had 2 UIs, MacOS and OSX.

                      Back in 1992 (which is when I started using Linux) the GUI programs tended to use either OpenLook or the Athena widget set and if one tried to mix them with modern GTK and Qt programs there would be jarring inconsistencies for the user (except for the Metro user, what they get is not much different from the flat look of the Athena widgets :->). So no, old Linux programs are even deader than Windows 3.11 programs.

                      Even today the balkanisation of widget sets remains a problem when trying to integrate the best of the Gnome and KDE worlds. From Win95 up til the abortion known (in the typical MS NewSpeak way) as "modern", Windows has used the same widget set (crappy, but universal) and by sticking to the basic Win32 API it is possible to write programs that work on everything from Windows 95 through to 7 - with sufficiently consistent visual integration that they do not seem out of place on any of those OSes. I have a sneaky feeling that in 3 years time one of the selling points of W9 will be that it boots straight into the desktop...

                      1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

                2. This post has been deleted by a moderator

          6. Chris_Maresca

            Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

            Funny enough, Windows 7 is far better than Linux on my laptop - battery life is around 30% longer and all the hardware works perfectly. The reality is that, as a consumer desktop, Linux still has a long, long way to go, although I agree that OSX is far better than either Windows or Linux.

            Linux is usable on the desktop, but it's not nearly as easy for the average person as either OSX or Win7. And those people don't know what a command lines, file paths or directory layouts are. And the fact that you focus on these things as why Windows sucks is exactly why Linux is still a crappy desktop...

          7. Irongut

            Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

            HAHAHAHA! When is your stand up dvd coming out?

            > only Windows is susceptible to viruses

            I must have imagined the viruses that exist for Mac, Linux and Unix.

            > It only runs on Intel.

            Ever heard of AMD? Ok so very similar architecture but they are a different company that makes different chips.

            And my absolute favourite...

            > Visual Studio is poor compared to, say, Eclipse

            VS isn't the best IDE I've ever used but Eclipse?!?! Programming with Eclipse feels liek someone tied one hand behind my back and poked one of my eyes out! Give me VS2010 over Eclipse any day.

            1. Snapper
              Thumb Down

              Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

              Yes you did.

              Imagine viruses that exist for Mac OS X that is!

              Now, if you are including trojans and java-based malware I'd agree with you.

              But no, you called them viruses.

              Just proves you are an idiot.

            2. William Old

              Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

              I must have imagined the viruses that exist for Mac, Linux and Unix.

              You did imagine them... none exist. Are you as confused as Jay about the concept of self-replication, the unique characteristic that defines a virus?

              Because if you can find or even name any self-replicating malware for any of those OSs, you will be the first ever to do so.

              Hint: there are no mechanisms within these for self-replication. And please don't start slabbering on about ELF viruses, ELF files are executable code and still need someone to run them, with or without root privileges... that doesn't constitute "self-replication".

              1. Jay Holmes

                Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

                I am going to fuzz over the self-replicating issue as I understand the concept of self replication and it doesnt matter much to the point I was making.

                The point was the prevalence of Windows as a user O/S. If Linux or even Mac OS had the user market that Windows has, do you not concede that there would be some clever bastard out there that would find away of infecting these machines in the traditional sense ie Viruses. I never singled out viruses, I used the caveat of "viruses/malware" that slash in between in general stands for "or" not "and". If you go out and ask a regular user what malware or trojans are they generally give you the answer of virus. But yourself and eadon just focus on the word Virus.

                p.s. By telling people to stop slabberinig on about ELF viruses, because they are executable code that requires someone to run them meaning that they are not self replicating, you are negating your argument because all viruses need someone to run them initially. Does that stop them from being self replicating???

          8. Pet Peeve
            Stop

            Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

            Windows 7 is clearly the best WINDOWS ever released. I really didn't think I would by dumping my XP installs until the machines running them fell apart, but I've completely moved to 7 on the windows machines.

            Some of your complaints are standard parts of windows, so complaining about them here is just OS zeolatry - stop that. Others, like the performance of NTFS and visual studio (VS inferior to eclipse? On what planet?), are just plain wrong.

            All OS'es are crap in some area or another. Use the one that works, and don't, to be english for a monent, be a prat.

          9. Nick Ryan Silver badge

            Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

            Ignoring the foaming and other flame comments:

            Win 7 driver model - each hardware device usually wants a specific driver installing. The Win 7 driver model is far better than previous as it moves the layer that a lot of driver functions execute in. Arguably hardware drivers should operate at the trusted operating level, however in reality there are a lot of very poorly written drivers out there because there are a lot of poor developers and poor emphasis in management above them to invest properly in good practices and resources to test and develop drivers. Poor quality or unreliable drivers directly affect a user's perception of the system, or Operating System as a whole - therefore when a particular device driver crashes then the immediate response is that the "computer" crashed and to blame the visible differentiating part - Windows. MS's shift of function execution mitigates this reliability issue quite a lot and also helps to resolve security issues as poorly written drivers are massive security holes that are just ready to be exploited, and often are. It's only the diversity of drivers (hardware) that has kept this security problem down. As for every hardware device requiring a specific driver, of course it does - there are hundreds of thousands of individual devices that can be plugged into a computer and therefore there are a large number of drivers. While it's true that generic class drivers can be used these do not give good performance and neither are they likely to take full advantage of the device itself.

            A poor install model - If Microsoft were to produce an online App repository for Windows (not RT), can you imagine the screams of complaints and anti-trust / anti-competition threats that would result? Now what they should do is to create an App-store repository system that's comes with the Operating System itself and can be configured to point to online, or more accurately networked, App-Stores that are free and available to operate. i.e. a clearly specified client-server system where you could link your system to a company's app-store and get updates and possibly new products from them easily, alternatively a corporate managed app-store where you can install corporate software or paid for packages and the deployment and management of these is automatic. Unfortunately the reality is that most Windows software is extremely poorly written, has ghastly dependencies (a Microsoft afflicted problem) and as a result won't operate too well in an app-store / repository delivery mechanism. This is just the tip of the problem with such Windows app delivery mechanisms.

            Needs anti-virus - Whatever OS happened to be used by the majority of users would be targetted for malware. A large ecosystem of systems will produce more vectors of attack and therefore will be more vulnerable. Others OSes have security problems as well, however I will concede that by (mis)design Windows is far more vulnerable than others. It's improving but is hampered by being built on an extremely poor security model to start off with.

            Hides file extensions - this is one of the utter stupidities that I agree with, it's a suicidal move and while it does save some problems with inexperienced users accidentally or intentionally changing file extensions, is a crazy thing to do and causes more problems longer term as user's just don't understand that there is a file extension and that it is very important. Other poor defaults such as "hide the fecking notification icons" are another UI stupidity as well as the inane animations that slow the usage of a system down - I don't mind animations and effects, but these shouldn't slow a system down, unfortunately many of the default Windows ones make a reasonable system appear slower than it is rather than adding polish to a system.

            Command line - Just use Windows Powershell if you hanker after typing everything on a monochrome screen. It's very useful for automating a lot of tasks. However GUIs were created for a reason, to make systems easier and simpler to interact and manage, don't forget that while some users have a rabid fascination with typing, the majority of users prefer to point (and click). There are some tasks that I find much easier to manage with a command line, others that are much easier with a GUI.

            Slashes, forward or back... who cares? Why is one superior to the other? Why don't we just use full stops (periods) to separate directories instead? No wait, that's been done already :) The primitive drive letter system in Windows is more of a problem than slash orientation and even MS have been trying to depracate usage of drive letters for years.

            Windows 7 does require a lot of resources to run. It also does more, however I'm definitely not convinced that much of what it does is useful or required and there is a lot of unneccesary bloat, which is very bad in an Operating System. See the point above about drivers though and their general quality, or lack of. It doesn't run only on Intel - it runs on x86/x64 and even then only newer versions of these. It is very hard to track driver resource usage as for efficiency reasons they aren't monitored, so when your system is running like a slug nailed to the floor and yet the CPU is shown as 99% idle this is usually the reason. Or software services running at driver level to circumvent security to allow automatic updates to software. Not monitoring of driver performance isn't unique to Windows either.

            File system - the Windows file system (NTFS version whatever, at least the more recent revisions), are not poor. They're not a proper journalled file system yet (grrr), but reasonable. The time to copy or manipulate files is usually down to the nonsense that the Windows Shell (explorer) inflicts on the process combined with Anti Virus and Anti-Malware applications getting involved as well, although most of the slowness is at the Shell level. Copy or manipulate the files using command line or other file manipulation tools and the difference is very noticeable.

            Directory layout? You are kidding aren't you? /home/<user> is the same as \users\<user>. Applications go in one place, data in another, settings in another and user files somewhere else. Be careful, your demand to work straight of C:\ sounds like the demand of idiotic Windows developers who seem to think that their application is so different and special that it needs all of the files in one special location for it and the program files, data files and settings (and log) files all need to be in the same writable location. Nothing like making malware's job easy for it - programs files should be read-only at all times except when an installer is writing or updating the files.

            Closed source hampering debugging? Have you no ideal how to use a debugger? I can remotely debug a Windows system session if I feel like, usually I tend to stick with local debugging though. You shouldn't need to debug against windows code even when writing drivers if you stick to the correct, documented interfaces and diligently check and manage algorithm inputs and outputs as you should be doing. The windows driver API may not be the most accessible beast to read, but it is clear.

          10. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

            " it needs anti-virus (only Windows is susceptible to viruses"

            there speaks an idiot who would give out his pin number in a phone call....

            google MAC Virus....what? no results?

            google Linux virus....what no results?

            no, I said use a search engine, not your local PC

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Windows

          Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

          Because it's Eadon and as i was enlightened the other day to his foaming-at-the-mouth anti MS rants, so to have you....

          He talks a lot but says nothing.....

          1. jason 7
            Facepalm

            Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

            Another Eadon post!

            They all sound the same, it's like Uncle Albert from Only Fools And Horses...

            "when I was in the war Rodney....."

            Change the record chap. We know you think Windows is crap, tired of hearing of it. In fact I bet the linux folks are too. Not helping!

            1. DavCrav Silver badge
              Headmaster

              Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

              "They all sound the same, it's like Uncle Albert from Only Fools And Horses...

              "when I was in the war Rodney....." "

              It was "Durin' the war"...

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

              "In fact I bet the linux folks are too" There are still some linux folks left?????!!!!!!!

              1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

            3. This post has been deleted by a moderator

              1. jason 7
                Happy

                Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

                @Eadon

                Truth hurts I guess chap!

              2. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

                "please stop stalking me, it's creepy"

                Lol! It's been a while since I've seen that one. Always used to be a clear sign that one of the parties in a usenet argument had lost, they'd accuse the other one of being 'creepy'. Excellent! May I suggest you compare him to a Nazi next? :)

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

                  "Excellent! May I suggest you compare him to a Nazi next?"

                  I think Eadon reserves that analogy (I hope he uses it as an analogy) for Microsoft itself.

                  1. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

                    ITT A large number of reasons normal people dislike IT fanatics.

                  2. This post has been deleted by a moderator

            4. Bill the Sys Admin
              Meh

              Re: Shooting themselves in the foot? - yes, by releasing Win 8.

              Tired. So very tired. I don't like windows, prefer Linux. But everything is fit for a purpose.

              "it needs anti-virus (only Windows is susceptible to viruses)"

              If you believe that @Eadon you are far more stupid than i first anticipated.

          2. This post has been deleted by a moderator

    3. The Indomitable Gall

      Re: Shooting themselves in the foot?

      Well, I can see from the internet that the US doesn't seem to care about eternal discounts ("must end soon" being a permanent fixture on many smaller websites), but in many countries it's fraud to claim a discounted price when there's never a "full" price to discount it against -- the UK is one of these.

      So what choice did they have? If they'd raised the price only in countries where they were legally obliged to do so, there would have been a backlash against "rip-off" foreign prices etc.

      If they want to drop the price, they'll have to wait a while -- 3 months, IIRC in the UK, and it's unlikely to be much longer elsewhere.

  2. Josco
    Thumb Down

    Wow

    Charging like a wounded elephant.... or should that be lemming.

    1. TheOtherHobbes

      Re: Wow

      Charging like an angry accountant, more like.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    This preloaded win-7 upgrade for $14.99, is that only if you bought something with it preloaded in the last few months before Win 8 came out, or is that any device with win 7 preloaded on it? At $14.99, might be worth a punt just in case.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I think it's within the last few months. Which is sad, I have a few friends with netbooks with Win7 Starter on, wondering if it's worth suggesting the upgrade (or downgrade? :D) to Win8...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Unhappy

        Microsoft won't give upgrade prices to Win7 Starter owners. I also thought that WH8 with classic shell might be better than the crappy W7 starter that came with the netbook, so I tried to buy it, but the product key was rejected, with the clear indication that the upgrade offer wasn't available for W7 starter,

        Oh well, I only boot into that crap when I need to access the office email from home, anyway. Maybe when they finally roll out exchange 2010 it won't be as crappy on a non-ie browser as exchange 2003 is.

      2. petur
        Happy

        I upgraded the Win7 on my netbook to LMDE and it suddenly amazed me what speed you can get out of an atom cpu :)

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    what about OEM?

    it's 100 bucks for now and 200 for the W8 pro. Will it shoot up to 200 / 300? Oh well, I guess I'll give it a pass and wait for the next one, unless they keel over in the meantime.

    1. Steve Knox

      Re: what about OEM?

      I don't think so -- AFAIK, there was never a special deal on the OEM version. But you might want to double-check pricing from your source. NewEgg has Win8 for $100 but Win8 Pro for $140. Those prices are at par with their prices for OEM Win7 Home Premium and Win7 Pro, respectively.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Not bad for £25

    I upgraded to Windows 8. A bit quicker than Windows 7 and slight battery life improvement. UI is cleaner and speedier. Not bad for £25. Go for it!

    1. Annihilator Silver badge
      Holmes

      Re: Not bad for £25

      And were any of those speed/battery improvements measured? And if they were, was the speed boost anything you wouldn't see from a reinstall of the OS anyway?

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. Mark McC

      Re: Not bad for £25

      I upgraded for around the same price. I'd pay double that for a downgrade option. Maybe that's a potential revenue stream for MS?

      1. proto-robbie
        Pirate

        Re: Not bad for £25

        Won't cost me a penny - I'm not going to want it, use it or buy it.

  6. Herby

    So what is the cost to DOWNGRADE?

    So I want to go from W8 to W7. What does that cost me? Maybe if they start selling downgrades for "less" (I want W7, not W8, give me back some money!) it might be a bargain!

    When this whole thing hits the fan, a bunch of people are going to be not to happy!

  7. Roger Lancefield
    FAIL

    OK, it may be the world's most security challenged operating system, but...

    ...at least after installing you can fire up the package manager and download your favourite apps!

    Oh wait.

  8. Wang N Staines
    Unhappy

    The Windows 8 that came with my laptop(i5 & 8GB RAM) is soooo slow.

    A piece of shit that is Windows 8.

    1. DJGM
      FAIL

      Something is seriously wrong with your laptop then. Windows 8 works perfectly well on all of my systems ... and they are all somewhat lower spec than your Core i5 laptop with it's 8GB RAM.

      System 1 ... Core2Quad desktop tower with 3GB RAM

      System 2 ... Core2Duo media centre with 2GB RAM

      System 3 ... Core i3 ASUS laptop with 4GB RAM

      You're just trolling to crap on Windows 8 methinks. Troll fail.

      1. Wang N Staines

        This is not a troll. My laptop is a Dell Inspiron, bought it 2 weeks ago ... my broadband is 100M with VM.

        Starting any apps taking ages with the circular dots going round and round ... after a minute or so the app starts.

        I had installed VS2012 ... starting it takes ages. However, once started then it's as responsive my Win7 laptop (2nd gen i5, 4GB RAM ... Lenovo).

        1. Zot

          Could it be an anti-virus or some protection software that's slowing it down?

  9. mickey mouse the fith
    FAIL

    hmmmm

    If they gave you the option to loose all the stupid tiles and other metro crap and have a proper start menu (without pissing about with patches and hacks) i might have been interested as its actually quite snappy performance wise, but they havnt and its bound to be nearly 100 notes for the cheapo version, so i think il pass until its forced on me during my next laptop upgrade.

    And why the blue blazes dont they listen to their customers?, noone wants a bastardised phone ui tacked onto the desktop bit on a pc, so why didnt they at least put the option there to disable the bloody thing? I, for one would have upgraded if they had, as im sure many others would.

    1. Stuporhero

      Re: hmmmm

      Amen. The full screen interface does everything to stop me multi-tasking. On a Digital Audio Workstation you'd be happier to have something more minimal.

  10. John H Woods Silver badge

    Upgrade = Full

    You can 'allegedly' use the upgrade as a full licence

    Strategy 1)

    a) Download Win8 prerelease beta from some torrent site

    b) Use upgrade on that

    Strategy 2) - more Lulz

    a) delete your disk partitions and install your upgrade

    b) now you have a copy of Win 8 that won't activate

    --- with the stern message that your licence was only for upgrade purposes

    c) now upgrade that inactive install with the same upgrade

    1. Fuzz

      Re: Upgrade = Full

      Have you tried either of these? I'm pretty sure neither will work, however the upgrade copy of Windows will quite happily install and activate on a clean machine.

    2. Daniel B.

      Re: Upgrade = Full

      actually, there's a more LULZ worthy method to follow, which was what someone I know did:

      1) have laptop/PC running a pirated version of Win7.

      2) Get WGA to tell you "d00d you running non-original Windowz"

      3) WGA will recommend buying legal Win7, or the cheap Win8 upgrade

      4) Buy Win8 upgrade, download, install.

      The Win8 upgrade won't care if your Win7 copy was pirated. MS is so desperate to get Win8 out there, they simply don't check if the Win7 was properly licensed or not!

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Devil

    There was a cheap upgrade?

    Sorry; I never noticed. I was standing in the queue to grab Windows 7 now that its still available.

  12. Dana W
    Trollface

    Its not selling! Quick! Raise the price!

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Alien

      It's inflation, Jim, but not as we know it.

    2. Yet Another Commentard

      @Dana

      I get your joke, but there's a serious point in it.

      It's not selling well, and to help old Stevie B out it needs more sales. Put the price up at a defined point may tip those who were thinking "oh I'll maybe do it sometime" or "I always wait for service pack 1" over the edge, so there could (MSFT hope) be a sudden sales frenzy to get a license code and an iso before the price goes up, and tumbleweed follows other than new PCs from OEM.

      The key is - lots of licenses shifted for the next earnings call. Long term we can put off for a bit. This is not a smart way to run a company.

      1. graeme leggett

        Re: @Dana

        On the other hand - if they'd cut prices it would have been ascribed to the fact that they weren't selling enough

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Wait

    Given the reaction to win8, they are going to have to rush release win9 with the metro stuff pushed to the side and other aspects reinstated - if only to get the business community back onside. Therefore its worth waiting for that, or jumping ship to something else, rather than suffering the fisher price OS.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Dream on

      Don't hold your breath... Julie Larson-Green is now in charge of the Windows division.

      There will be more of that Fisherprice tile UI in Win9 (or whatever they wish to name it).

      They genuinely believe that Metro is GOOD for office productivity.

      Businesses are going to stick with Win7 for a long, long, long time.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Quick, man the pumps!

    Bale man, I said bale!

    But Captain, isn't the water supposed to go OUT of the ship?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Quick, man the pumps!

      No wonder they're sinking if they're spending all their time baling hay.

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

  15. Robot

    Two questions

    Question 1. Can I buy the Windows 8 upgrade at the sale price before Jan 31st, and then apply the upgrade say one year later?

    Question 2. If I upgrade my Windows 7 to Windows 8, and if I don't like Windows 8, can I go back to Windows 7 using the same Windows 7 license? When I say "go back" I mean in terms of license, not in terms of the technical work to reinstall Windows 7 (I can simply restore my image of Windows 7). Will the activation of Windows 8 on top of Windows 7 invalidate my Windows 7?

    Thanks in advance for any answer.

    1. Fuzz

      Re: Two questions

      Question 1. Yes

      Question 2. I don't know, as you say from a technical point of view it's fine and will work. I'm not sure whether your license to <del>kill</del> use windows 7 is revoked when you install the upgrade.

    2. keithpeter Silver badge

      Re: Two questions

      Don't assume I know what I am talking about, but, if you were to use clonezilla or something similar to record a binary image of the hard drive including your Windows 7 partition and any boot partition/recovery partition would you not simply be able to revert to Win7 having tried Win8?

      1. Robot

        Re: Two questions

        Thanks, Fuzz and keithpeter, for your feedback. In fact, for safety I cloned (with True Image 2011) my Windows 7 system hard disk that is in my Samsung notebook, and that second hard disk is confirmed to be bootable after a hard disk swap. I am mainly concerned whether Microsoft might disable the Windows 7 system after revoking my Windows 7 license to which I apply the Windows 8 upgrade. I am afraid that putting the cloned Windows 7 hard disk back into computer might not work.

  16. Allison Park

    still pondering spending $15

    I am not a fan of win8 on my HP touchsmart, why would I upgrade any of my non-touch screens for $119?

    oh and anyone can get the $15 upgrade, just say you bought the system yesterday on the upgrade site.

  17. This post has been deleted by a moderator

    1. Neil Barnes Silver badge
      Linux

      Re: Upgrade to a more useful, sexier, *real* operating system. Linux

      I'm not 100% convinced of the AV argument - and I think as more Linux systems become available as targets, the more it is likely to get aimed at - but nonetheless I'm a Linux user (Mint/Cinnamon for me, thanks) and was extremely annoyed at just how unpleasant the W8 experience was on a recently purchased laptop. Had I had the choice, I would much have preferred that it came with W7. In particular:

      - I don't like being a guinea pig for new software without being asked;

      - I don't like having to have a microsoft live account before I can activate the damn thing;

      - I don't like having to use the signon and password from that throw-away account for my OS (and without warning, too);

      - I don't like not having a choice of browser as mandated by the EU;

      - I don't like having to decide that (e.g.) microsoft can't have access to my location services;

      - I don't like having to remove the unwanted crapware that's installed by default;

      - I don't like a faceful of advertising for services I neither want nor need;

      - I don't like being unable to do the simplest task, like turning off the eye-candy animations;

      - I neither want nor need pre-built shortcuts to social harvesting^w networking sites;

      - In short, I don't like being presented with a cut-down half-usable version of an OS.

      Had the laptop been supplied with a clean usable copy of W7 or W8, I would probably have left it operational; I do have a couple of legacy windows applications which get used once or twice a year. As it is, the W8, while still present on one of the disks in this machine, doesn't even appear as a boot option.

      Had I been able to downgrade the installed W8 to W7, I would have done that, and left it bootable. But as far as I could discover, the only legitimate way to do that was to upgrade to W8 pro, then purchase W7 boot media, and *then* install it. Quite why it's necessary to pay for something I didn't want just so I can pay again I haven't quite worked out...

      As I've said elsewhere, W8 may be the worlds most sophisticated operating system but it's *not to my taste*. The thought of paying half the cost of a laptop to purchase a license for it is simply laughable. I agree with Eadon: Windows is becoming more and more insignificant in the real world. If it works for you, enjoy it. Otherwise, consider trying one of the flavours of Linux - or all of them; they're all the same price: free.

      1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

    2. IHateWearingATie
      Linux

      Re: Upgrade to a more useful, sexier, *real* operating system. Linux

      Games, games and more games.

      Show me battlefield 3 and world of tanks ( or their equivalents in the future) on Linux and I'll move. Until then, Linux has no place on my main desktop.

      1. petur
        Meh

        Re: Upgrade to a more useful, sexier, *real* operating system. Linux

        You don't want a pc, you want a game console ;)

      2. This post has been deleted by a moderator

        1. nematoad Silver badge
          Linux

          Re: Upgrade to a more useful, sexier, *real* operating system. Linux

          Damn, Eadon you beat me to it.

          Yes Steam is the answer, and it's not vapourware it's here.

          Unfortunately only on Ubuntu at the moment AFAIK.

          And I'm not sure whether that includes Xubuntu, Kubuntu as well, 'cos if it doesn't then Valve might have picked the wrong distro given the momentum Mint has just now.

          1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Thumb Down

            Re: Upgrade to a more useful, sexier, *real* operating system. Linux

            nematoad: "Yes Steam is the answer,... "

            Oh, you are making my head hurt. It's like watching blind ducks paddling for land.

            A lot of people go on about "Steam for Linux" and act like they won a long hard stand off. Well, if the stand off was about highly restricted content (what can you play where again?) and redundant security risks (how many login/passwords do you need?), then congratulations, you won!

            Steam, you are turning into a privacy nightmare. So why Steam, do you port yourself to many more platforms? Oh that's right, Windows did you like they did Adobe.

            Wouldn't it be nice if we could just keep corporate interests off of minors on Linux/GNU desktops? Do you all of you fuckers have a price?

            1. blcollier

              @MyBackDoor (re: Steam Linux)

              Please do one, troll.

              Having Steam running natively on Linux with at least a significant percentage of its games library being compatible with Linux can only be a good thing. You can complain all you want about privacy or DRM, etc, but the simple response to that is not to use it; no-one is forcing it down your throat at gunpoint. The fact is that there are a large number of people out there (myself included) who would quite happily switch to Linux permanently if the support for games were much better. And don't tell me to go get a console either; I don't need or want outdated hardware, thanksverymuch.

              Not to mention all the work that Valve are doing with regards to performance improvement on Linux for OpenGL and drivers... Just sayin'...

              My only gripe with it is that Steam Linux is currently x86 only, and I suspect that won't change any time soon.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Trollface

                Re: @MyBackDoor (re: Steam Linux)

                "...happily switch to Linux permanently..." So, you are unhappily using an OS "temporarily"?

                Can't lie, video games are fun. The more commercial "options" you praise for running on Linux, the more you welcome proprietary drivers and possible kernel mods. Kernel panic! Contact... Nvidia?

                It really is all fun and games, until commercial vendors get what they want and walk away, leaving the place locked up. Depending on the kids and younger generations to ignore historical business patterns, is something that a lot of commercial software corporations have been counting on, and they have a solid count!

          3. Adair Silver badge

            Re: Upgrade to a more useful, sexier, *real* operating system. Linux

            Steam beta working fine here on latest Minty goodness.

      3. This post has been deleted by its author

      4. Nuke
        Holmes

        @IHateWearingATie - Re: Upgrade to a more useful, sexier, *real* operating system. Linux

        Wrote :-

        "Show me battlefield 3 and world of tanks on Linux and I'll move. Until then, Linux has no place on my main desktop."

        Simple, do what lots of us do, dual boot : Windows for playing tanks and Linux for browsing p0rn I mean everything else - it's bulletproof.

    3. Davidoff
      FAIL

      Re: Upgrade to a more useful, sexier, *real* operating system. Linux

      "* No Metro - Linux Mint comes with Gnome 2 fork - Mate."

      Yes, and GNOME sucks. It's the worst user interface ever. Even your hero Linus Torvalds thinks the same. GNOME 2 is a bit less painful than GNOME 3 but both are made by people that have no idea about Human Factors and UI design..

      "* No need for an Antivirus scanner - Linux simply cannot catch a virus in the real world (ignoring daft hypothetical lab stuff that doesn't work in the real world), which is why no Linux viruses exist in the wild."

      Great. The same can be said about Windows because the traditional viruses are a thing of the past. Modern malware consist of Trojans and worms to which a Linux distribution is also susceptible.

      "* Secure (secure UNIX architecture)."

      It's an illusion that UNIX which it's everything-is-a-file mantra and primitive file access controls is inherently secure. It took great lengths to actually make modern day Linux as secure as it is, and the sloppy development in many of its userland programs certainly didn't help.

      "* Developed by the best teams. You do not get stronger than Torvalds at OS design."

      Nonsense. Torvalds is certainly a very good developer but even he got a lot of things wrong in the Linux kernels, and there have been more than one really embarrassing flaws in Linux over the years.

      And the best developers don't pay for free, they actually get paid for their work. And it's unlikely that most of them work on Linux.

      "* Choice of window managers - use whatever UI suits you whenever you want."

      Yeah, choice. Many desktops just suck, and it's not rare that the next version does things completely different. The greatest consistency probably comes with KDE. Linux desktops are a good example that quantity doesn't equal quality.

      And if you need a touch UI then it gets even worse.

      "* Better Server - Linux is the best of class server."

      Most major corporations around the world most certainly would disagree, as their backbones runs on Windows, Exchange and ADS and not Linux.

      But at the end of the day the OS doesn't matter (both Windows and Linux make for great server OSes), it's the applications that count.

      "* No commercial licences, no licence management overhead."

      Right. Unfortunately these are not the only costs that come with a platform choice. And in many cases it's simply more economical to pay for Windows than to use free Linux.

      "* Brilliant command line available for power users."

      Yeah. Same with Windows (ever heard of 'PowerShell'? Guess not). It may be news for you but Windows development has not stagnated since Windows95.

      "* Easy to install"

      Linux got better, but still doesn't match the simple installation procedure of Windows 7 or Windows 8. And there still are too many cases where an installation will just fail and needs manual intervention on the command line.

      "* Out of the box Linux comes with LibreOffice, and many other applications. Windows gives you minesweeper."

      Out of the box, Linux comes with a kernel, period. A Linux distribution may come with LibreOffice (which sucks donkey balls), though. Unfortunately the only way to run a proper office application is to use Wine.

      Oh, FYI (since your Windows 'knowledge' seems to be stuck at Windows 95): Windows 8 doesn't come with Minesweeper (you can download it from the Microsoft Store, though).It comes with lots of other stuff, though.

      "* User Friendly"

      In your dreams. Aside from the desktop suckage, there are still too many instances where something doesn't work (even some very simple things like a OS upgrade), and too many instances where there are just too many (and often useless) changes between versions. For those users that can't cope with the new Windows 8 user interface, Linux will be the worst nightmare.

      "* Runs fast on even old hardware. (Better memory management, less bloat, etc, availability of fast windows managers)."

      Utter bullcrap. I guess you never tried a current Linux distro on older hardware, otherwise you had known that this results in a sluggish system which is a pain to use. Yes, Linux can be very fast on old hardware, if you strip everything out that makes a modern Linux distro.

      And you have to be really obtuse to ignore all the what you call 'bloat' that is in every major Linux distribution for generations.

      BTW: Windows 7 runs just fine on old hardware, and guess what, Windows 8 runs even better.

      Yes, Linux is great (especially for embedded devices), but everyone who believes that it will come without major issues will be disappointed. The change between the various versions of most major Linux distros is even bigger than the change between Windows 7 and Windows 8, and that was the only major UI change in the Windows world since Windows 95 some 18 years ago. Your post is the typical fanboi-ism that makes a certain part of the Linux community as enjoyable as Athlete's foot. And of course you (like most fanbois) totally miss the important point that an OS is not a purpose in itself (and most certainly won't compensate for the lack of joy in your life), it's a means of running the applications you need, period. And at the end of the day, the majority of apps most people want to run are on Windows only. And when Windows not only runs all the apps they want but almost everything that is available on Linux, no-one with at least half a brain would move to Linux.

      1. Chemist

        Re: Upgrade to a more useful, sexier, *real* operating system. Linux

        "but everyone who believes that it will come without major issues will be disappointed."

        I have used SUSE & OpenSUSE since the late 90's - I've NEVER had major issues.

        I currently run OpenSUSE 11.4 on my low-powered, file/print/odds&sods dual core ATOM server, laptop, netbook and dual-core Intel at our holiday home. I run 12.2 on my two work stations ( AMD single & dual cores.) I've almost always used KDE.

        I have no problems with graphics including hardware accelerated 1080p/50 video, 3G dongles, serial/USB converters, scanner/printer & printer. I can process RAW DSLR files at 16bits/colour, video edit 1080p/50 video and heaps more. I use SSH to my file server for proxy access to iPlayer, etc whilst I'm away. Skype, GoogleEarth all fine.

        I do use Libre Office which I find sufficient for my needs - big spreadsheets are slower than Excel but otherwise....

        On the other hand I've got a great selection of programming languages , of which I regularly use C and tcl/tk & shell scripts.

        I don't recognize this picture you paint

      2. This post has been deleted by a moderator

    4. DJGM
      Megaphone

      Re: Upgrade to a more useful, sexier, *real* operating system. Linux

      Linux is fine ... but you fail on one core point in your explanation:

      Quote: * Secure (secure UNIX architecture). Unquote.

      Yes, it's very secure, that is true, and it's not vulnerable to Windows malware. But, it does NOT actually have a UNIX architecture. Linux is not based upon, or built upon any variation of UNIX. Linux is a UNIX clone written from the ground up to work in a very similar way to UNIX.

      1. Jamie Jones Silver badge

        Re: Upgrade to a more useful, sexier, *real* operating system. Linux

        @DJGM Yep, there used to be two 'main families' of unix - SYSv and BSD.

        Linux has followed it's own rules.

        It's true what they say: Unix is for people that like unix. Linux is for people who hate microsoft, Some of the linux changes make some of us oldtimers cringe, for the same reasons Eadon tried to blame microsoft for in an early post

        1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

    5. Jamie Jones Silver badge
      FAIL

      Re: Upgrade to a more useful, sexier, *real* operating system. Linux

      Oh Eadon, please be quiet until you understand the points you are actually making.

      You are not doing the Linux fans any good with your parrot-style ramblings.

  18. Bottle_Cap

    will be interesting

    to see how steam being available.for.linux affects this. The rest of the games I play playonlinux does a great job!

  19. mark l 2 Silver badge

    I think they have figure that anyone that wanted to actually upgrade to Windows 8 probably had done so already and so they might as well crank the price up as sales had probably started to plateau anyway.

  20. JaitcH

    Win 9 is so bad ...

    that the software copy shops in Ho Chi Minh City haven't sold ANY ... and it's only Dong30,000 - about USD$1.50 - a copy.

    How embarrassing can that be?

  21. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    Where would you like to go?

    Not there thanks!

  22. Bob Vistakin
    Unhappy

    Drat

    Just as I was about to convert too, having been persuaded by all that marketing spend.

  23. Marco van de Voort
    Facepalm

    Apple OEM version?

    The article compares cheap Apple's OS X with the retail price. Shouldn't it compare to the OEM/system builder price?

  24. Kirstian K
    Facepalm

    Wanna hear something amazing.

    I actually found 2 windows 8 features I like:

    The new copy dialogue. (It's actually usefull)

    And the fact they finally built in mounting of iso's into the system.

    (the rest is crap)

    Hate:

    Start menu with all the dumped files on the start screen.

    Rdp'ing to it was dog slow.

    Touch points..... Really!

    Then it's just windows 7 (as long as you know short cuts, and can work out the changes where they have moved stuff, download a start menu replacement and ignore the front screen)

    I love the comment about getting rid of aero because it was distracting. And then give your that stupid metro interface with live tiles (which will become malware/live adverts before you know it) which is REALLY distracting.

    I also love the other comment: after you get used to it, it's intuitive! Lol where you you start on that. My 2 kids 1.5+3 use iPads etc and just got them. Adults get windows 8 and struggle.

    I for 1 won't be buying it, ESP for the new prices. I think this is a very bad move for them. I bet apple/android markets are rubbing their hands in glee.

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Modern island life or a tale of simple countryfolk

    I live on a small island, population ~ 450.

    The local PC builder guy gives you the choice of installing Linux for £60* less than with Windows on new builds.

    It works out cheaper to have a locally built machine than having to send a broken one away to be fixed.

    (They tend to get smashed on the way back and it becomes an endless task)

    Consequently most people here are running LInux. I only know of one Mac user and he got pwned not long ago!

    (300 miles to get a Mac mended!)

    I've seen a few ipads around, mostly for children. A neighbour just got one and promptly regretted it, her actual words were "It's crap!".

    Personally, I run Kubuntu 12.04 with XP in a VM. I won't be buying any more Microsoft products.

    Anon to stop Google et al. tracking me down.

    *The last time I asked him, about six months ago.

    1. Nuke
      Meh

      Re: Modern island life or a tale of simple countryfolk

      Wrote :- "I live on a small island .... The local PC builder guy gives you the choice of installing Linux for £60* less than with Windows on new builds. It works out cheaper to have a locally built machine than having to send a broken one away to be fixed."

      I'm curious - why can't the local builder repair the broken one? Not un-repairable throwaway Apple crap hardware of course, but ones built with a bit of sanity.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Modern island life or a tale of simple countryfolk

        "I'm curious - why can't the local builder repair the broken one? Not un-repairable throwaway Apple crap hardware of course, but ones built with a bit of sanity."

        Because if you buy a Dell, say, you have to send it away to the approved repairers or whoever is stated in the guarantee. .

        1. Unlimited
          Holmes

          Re: Modern island life or a tale of simple countryfolk

          "oh no, can't repair this. Has to be couriered to Dell. I'll build you a new one. I'll even dispose of the old one for you in an environmentally friendly way."

          *puts everything into new case

          *replaces motherboard

          *scrapes hdd for possibly interesting media

          *installs ubuntu

          "Here you go sir, I've built you a brand new computer!"

          1. Chemist
            Joke

            Re: Modern island life or a tale of simple countryfolk

            ""oh no, can't repair this. Has to be couriered to Dell. I'll build you a new one. I'll even dispose of the old one for you in an environmentally friendly way.""

            You don't really understand life in a remote community, do you. Get caught at this sort of thing and you'd end up inside a wicker man with someone with a lit torch about to reprimand you.

  26. Anonymous John

    Re Upgrade pricing for the UK, Europe, and other regions was not available as The Reg went to press.

    £1 = $1. Sorted.

    1. Stuporhero

      ...

      Thieving b**tards. It'd probably be more if the EU fined them again.

  27. Unlimited
    Thumb Up

    And "customers who bought new PCs or laptops with Windows 7 preloaded got the best deal of all"

    Yes, because with their deal they got Win 7 and not 8.

    1. Otto von Humpenstumpf

      Re: And "customers who bought new PCs or laptops with Windows 7 preloaded got the best deal of all"

      That's why, when I bought my new laptop a couple of weeks before Christmas, I deliberately chose the "older" model that still came pre-installed with Win7, rather than the latest model with Win 8. As an added bonus, it was reduced by £150 because it was 'end-of-line'... :o)

      I do not intend to upgrade to Win 8, despite the £15 upgrade offer, since it doesn't have a touchscreen (where, incidentally, I see the whole Win 8 thing is moving towards).

      My theory is that MS are using Win 8 to get users to become accustomed to the 'tiles' metaphor, and keep the 'old-style' desktop for legacy apps. In Win 9, we will probably see the latter disappear in favour of a windowed, VM-like desktop, so that legacy applications can still be run, in a similar way that Windows 95 removed the necessity to run Windows on top of DOS, but still providing a DOS-like CLI in a window.

  28. Adair Silver badge

    Perhaps...

    ...Microsoft should give up trying to make Windows all things to all people, and ending up with what it more and more reflecting in the UI the horrible kludge that the underlying code always has been, and instead market two distinct versions: one for those who want computing as an appliance---those who have no interest in what goes on under the hood; and another for folks who like to tinker or who actually need to get serious work done and so be in control of the stuff they use to get that work done.

    1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I would upgrade but...

    The upgrade assistant tells me there are problems. USB3 won't work, my Bluetooth stack won't work, and I have 5 Microsoft tools that won't work and have no updates. This on a 2012 notebook.

    Why do I suspect the problems will all suddenly be fixed after 31st Jan 2013?

    1. Fuzz

      Re: I would upgrade but...

      I think the upgrade assistant is confused.

      Your USB3 will work but not with whatever drivers/tools you have installed now, Windows 8 has native USB3 so will provide its own drivers.

      If you have a bluetooth stack I'm guessing your laptop is Toshiba if that's the case you'll find the Windows 7 one works fine but you'll probably need to uninstall it and then reinstall after the upgrade. Your MS tools will also be fine. I haven't found anything that runs under 7 that won't run under 8. Also there is compatibility mode for really troublesome apps.

      Of course the best thing to do is not to actually upgrade but run a clean install.

  30. The Brave Sir Robin
    FAIL

    Yeah

    Good luck with that.

  31. Mystic Megabyte
    Stop

    whatever

    Sorry to sound like Eadon but you would have to be f***ing mad to buy Windows 8.

    Come on, this is the 21st. century. You don't need this shit.

  32. John70

    Upgrade

    I won't be upgrading Windows 7 to Windows 8 at all.

    I will wait and see what Windows 9 will be like.

    Thats if Microsoft has seen the errors of it's ways and separate the Windows interface and TIFKAM into separate OSes.

  33. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It occurs to me…

    Windows has for a long time lived off their market share. A lot of people use windows because they always have: that's what they learnt in school/used at work. Try to redesign windows and suddenly these users can't make the easy transition. Why, when your business is largely built on historical market share, would you give users that otherwise don't really care reason to shop around!? Apparently M$ are trying to copy all the cool kids with their profitable app stores, but they don't seem to have the marketing bluster to pull it off.

    Metaphorically speaking, pretty much all of Microsoft's recent 'development' is autopedophobic machine-gunning!

  34. Neil Barnes Silver badge
    Alert

    Just as a thought

    Are there actually any valid figures on how many windows sales are actual upgrades to existing systems as opposed to direct OEM installations? I suppose Redmond might consider that commercially sensitive...

    My guess would be that the vast majority of people simply buy a new computer from time to time and run whatever comes on it. At best, they'll do the SP upgrade, if they think about it. But I reckon only the homebuilders and speed freaks ever buy an OS directly...

    1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      Re: Just as a thought

      A further complication is the number of corporate buyers who will get a new PC (with the OEM Win8 on it, because the majority of OEMs still don't give you a choice) and then just slap on the corporate volume-licensed image (either Win7 or XP). These people have technically bought Win8, but would have preferred not to and aren't using it.

      I'm sure *that* figure is commercially sensitive, but MS must have a pretty good estimate because anyone with a volume licence for XP or Win7 but not one for Win8 is almost certainly doing exactly this.

  35. Glostermeteor

    I just bought a laptop for my new employee and it came with Windows 8. What a horrible OS, how on earth did they manage to screw up a near perfect OS (i.e. Windows 7)? It makes absolutely no sense for devices that do not have touch screens and even then you then have to combat the switching between a 2d and 3d world with their weird new start menu, everything just seems harder and more complex. I definitely won't be upgrading any of my existing PCs!

  36. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I still think....

    ...that "Windows 9" sounds very German, and quite appropriate...

  37. JDX Gold badge

    Bought my copy

    Foolish to think they would suddenly change their entire pricing model to mirror Apple's, but I'd forgotten how much full versions cost so buying ahead in case I need it seemed sensible... , maybe I'll dual-boot it on my Mac as my main PC probably needs replacing soonish and can live with W7 until then.

  38. Greg Fawcett
    FAIL

    Or get a chromebook

    I bought one of Google's $249 chromebooks for evaluation. If I was a diligent IT manager, I'd be very tempted to buy everyone one and finally ditch MS - along with all the SQL, Outlook and Sharepoint servers, Office licences, virus defences and backup facilities. Users would be happy to get a sexy new laptop, and it would decimate support costs.

    But most IT managers will rail against Chromebooks, because their departments, budgets and influence will shrink.

  39. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Win-does or win-suck

    OS's are a horrible topic at the moment. Windows is changing their look/feel further and losing sight of the desktop user for a more integrated experience across devices. This might work or it might fail. Microsofts record of irritating mistakes and major fails are beaten back by a consistent interface and almost hassle-less installation of tools/programs. 98 sucked until release 2, same with xp and vista never worked. The footprint increases and the security slowly tightens but improvements often get in the way of users.

    Personally I have windows 7 but I prefer XP. My requirement for a good 64bit windows was the problem. This system exists to play games on and thats all. I have a fedora linux partition and have almost instantly found myself moving over.

    But all is not rosy. Linux is fragmented by distributions but thats not really much of a concern. Recently we had the move to Gnome3 interface which I kinda like but it gets in the way too. I have tried Unity and found people united by their hate for it, with fair reason. I run a mint distro with cinnamon which I think is the best of the lot which is easy to use and still more secure than windows. However a rare glitch has stopped me using it on my desktop.

    Linux is the better OS if you know how to use a computer and dont need windows specific software. However most users like the bliss of ignorance because they dont want to know what they are doing, they want a system to do what they know. So for these people they are trapped. Either they will like or dislike the new OS but their understandable desire to just use the computer with minimum fuss will keep them trapped with windows. Some will complain, some will like it. But change is more difficult than complaining.

    I am shocked at the excessive pricing of microsoft products. I expect they will be priced out of the market at some point. Especially with google and apple squeezing the market. And linux will likely remain in the domain of the geek. But thats a good thing. Look at the trouble ubuntu is getting while they try to go mainstream

  40. Ramazan
    Pint

    I have a better idea for Microsoft

    Stop developing, selling and supporting Windows(TM) at all and users will crawl to you begging...

This topic is closed for new posts.

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2021