Drop that can of sweet pop and grab a coffee - for your sanity's sake

Further proof - were it necessary - that strong unsweetened coffee is the only correct workplace beverage and that sickly imitation pop is the devil's own satanic brew has emerged this week. Boffins in the States have confirmed that sweetened and "diet" drinks are associated with a significantly heightened risk of mental illness …

[John Latham]

Correlation != causation

That's all.

[FartingHippo]

Re: Correlation != causation

Indeed. I also note the research was suspiciously paid for by Kenco.

Ok, I made that last bit up.

[Psyx]

Re: Correlation != causation

Yup.

"People who drank more than four cans or cups per day of soda " ... [tend to be lower on the socio-economic totem pole, so are indeed more likely to get depressed]

Not to mention the startlingly obvious point that people who drink diet drinks are already much more likely to be in the "I'm not happy with how I look" camp than those who drink full-fat.

[Jamie Kitson]

Re: Correlation != causation

Yeah, they're most likely depressed because they're fat and are forced into drinking drinks that taste crap by society.

[Psyx]

Re: Correlation != causation

"forced into drinking drinks that taste crap by society."

Pressured into losing weight by society...maybe. But I'm not seeing how anyone is 'forced' to pay 50p for a tin full of fizzy aspartine when they have perfectly good (free) drinking water available.

[Eddy Ito]

Re: Correlation != causation

"when they have perfectly good (free) drinking water available."

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you don't live in an American city. The water here, in SoCal at least, is neither free nor perfectly good as there are times when I open the raw tap and the aroma immediately reminds me of the hyper-chlorinated pool I learned to swim in as a child. Needless to say the water that goes into my coffee maker is thrice filtered with the last stage being reverse osmosis. Before the city we had nearly perfect water with tds of 50 ppm and a pH of 6.6 coming from 630 ft below ground.

[Psyx]

Re: Correlation != causation

"I'm going to go out on a limb and say you don't live in an American city."

Was it stating a drink price in pence that was the give-away?!

In any case, [bottled] water > diet drinks. There really is no good reason to pour over a litre of fizzy chemical crap into your system every day*.

*Including lager.

[Martin Budden]

Re: Correlation != causation @ Psyx

Of course there's no reason to pollute your system with lager!

Real ale, on the other hand...

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Correlation != causation

Hmmmmmm, speaking of correlation != causation, it's interesting to note that you're not prepared to spend £0.50 on a prepared drink and then complain about "chemical crap".

Maybe (just a thought) if you pushed the boat out occasionally and spent just a bit more on what you eat / drink, you wouldn't have so many chemicals to worry about?

[Psyx]

Wrong conclusion. Misunderstanding of observed evidence.

"Hmmmmmm, speaking of correlation != causation, it's interesting to note that you're not prepared to spend £0.50 on a prepared drink and then complain about "chemical crap". Maybe (just a thought) if you pushed the boat out occasionally and spent just a bit more on what you eat / drink, you wouldn't have so many chemicals to worry about?"

I'm quoting 50p for a can of drink not because I buy cheap fizzy drinks, but because I have absolutely NO IDEA how much stuff like that costs. (And if tins of Coke are more that 50p each, then that's over £15 quid a week for a four-a-day habit!)

From that you could conclude that either I'm far to wealthy to shop for myself, or that I never buy any form of pre-packaged soft drink.* So you lecture about diet is very much misplaced.

*Except an occasional emergency Purdeys, for when I have a hangover. Is that reassuringly expensive enough for you?

[IronSteve]

Re: Correlation != causation

Spot on sir, and should be completely obvious to anyone with half a brain. So why do we keep getting these f**cking poxy reports

[mike2R]

Re: Correlation != causation

I didn't get the impression that the author of this article was taking it entirely seriously...

[Sampler]

Re: Correlation != causation

Exactly what I came in to post, also, it may be the other way around, those heading towards depression might be looking for the sweet sugar rush given by cans of pop?

(can I have my PHD now please?)

[Naughtyhorse]

Re: Correlation != causation

'cept the problem is not with sugar, its with Aspartame. about which there is considerable debate.

indeed depression is pretty low on the list of claimed issues:

multiple sclerosis, systemic lupus, methanol toxicity, blindness, spasms, shooting pains, seizures, headaches, depression, anxiety, memory loss, birth defects and death.

persny i'd rather suck shit through an oily rag than drink any of this crap, so i aint that worried.

[Eric Olson]

Re: Correlation != causation

Unless you read the study and went through the data and mathematics, you can't assume all Dr. Chen did was make a pretty graph with depression on one axis and drink preference on the other, slapped on a regression line, and called it a day.

More likely, this variable was isolated using a variety of statistical tools that approximate making all other things equal and took into account the other known risk factors for depression.

Of course, it's possible he did just make the graph, since I haven't read the full text either. But the fact that it's being presented at the annual AAN conference likely means that it's not designed the same way that someone competing in a high school science fair would have done.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Correlation != causation

"you can't assume all Dr. Chen did was make a pretty graph with depression on one axis and drink preference on the other"

No. But I know the one that sadly seems to win out a lot. It takes a lot to show the work has been done over just making it up. Lots of the stuff we follow today is from some one pretending to be a scientist, getting the media/political/economic backing and running with it. Turn the TV on for half of these "scientific" examples. :(

[Euripides Pants]

Re: Correlation != causation

Drink four cans of diet soda a day for a month and see how you feel...

[Rampant Spaniel]

Re: Correlation != causation

Well said John, until you have a proven mechanism all you have is an observation.

[Ole Juul]

Dyslexic analysis disorder

So, people who are depressed like to drink sweetened and "diet" drinks. How did they turn that around and make the "association" into a "risk"?

[Richard 81]

Re: Dyslexic analysis disorder

The same way everyone else does when reporting statistical findings.

[Vladimir Plouzhnikov]

Re: Dyslexic analysis disorder

The BBC article actually quoted one of the scientists who participated in making the study as specifically saying they have found a "link, not cause and effect connection".

[DJ Smiley]

Re: Dyslexic analysis disorder

As someone with depression, I can understand the link quite easily.

Its rather more effort to make coffee than reach down and open up another can of that lovely sweet cola I have sitting beside me.

[kissingthecarpet]

Re: Dyslexic analysis disorder

Also, in the mind of most journos(& everyone else) "statistics == data" is true, i.e. a statement like "8 out of 10 owners etc." is a pieces of statistical analysis as far as most are concerned.

Correlation, significance, probability, regression etc. are all completely meaningless to all journalists it would seem. The only stats measure ever used is the arithmetic mean, even when a median value would be far more informative(salaries for eg) and anything that indicates spread like standard deviation etc is never, ever mentioned on pain of death( apparently).

[AndrueC]

Re: Dyslexic analysis disorder

As the famous super computer AI, Watson, would say:

"It's all bullshit".

[Fibbles]

Re: Dyslexic analysis disorder

This is a piece by Lewis Page. As a result the article does not have to accurately reflect the paper that it is based on.

[Naughtyhorse]

Re: Dyslexic analysis disorder-lewis page??

wheres the foaming-at-the-mouth anti CC angle?

[stuff and nonesense]

Re: Dyslexic analysis disorder

Diet soda uses aspartame as the sweetener.

Aspartame is a source of phenylananine (sp), an amino acid that has been suspect in mental disorders for the past 3 decades (at least).

It inhibits seratonin production/retention in the brain. Seratonin is a neurotransmitter that is present when we feel happy.

A number of anti-depressants on the market work by "inhibiting the absorbtion" of seratonin.

Drinking diet soda isn't a good idea if you are on anti depressants.

Also in the report, It seems that if you have depressive tendencies diet drinks can make the depression worse but if you are not affected by such problems diet drinks have little/no effect.

[Shufflemoomin]

Re: Dyslexic analysis disorder

Do you see the word 'suspect' in your statement, followed up at the rear by lack of evidence?

[Thomas 4]

So...

Why doesn't El Reg have a coffee icon yet?

[Dave 126]

Re: So...

>Why doesn't El Reg have a coffee icon yet?

They do: What do think this brown stuff on the keyboard is? : D

[bitten]

Re: So...

I want a Sweet Pop icon, Madness the final frontier ...

[Thomas 4]

Re: So...

My god, it all makes sense now. Cthulhu is the CEO of Coca-cola.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: So...

No, Cthulhu is the CEO of Monsanto.

[Allan George Dyer]

Re: So...

Isn't Cthulhu a Monsanto product?

[LateNightLarry]

Re: So...

Why doesn't El Reg have a WINE GLASS icon yet? I've been asking for one for over a year...

Paris, because she's from California and would rather have fizzy wine, aka Champagne (except France says we can't call it that).

[Roger Greenwood]

If only . . .

. . . managers could be persuaded to make coffee so essential in the workplace it was supplied free and compulsory.

Then we could tax it.

Pint of cappucino please.

[NorthernCoder]

Re: If only . . .

I suggest moving to Sweden.

I can't recall a single workplace I have worked at here which didn't have free coffee for the employees.

As a bootnote, when I was in Crete, I saw that the restaurant menus on the sidewalks usually had four languages; Greek, English, German and one of the Scandinavian ones. I noted one of these menu boards proclaiming in the first three languages that they served espresso for so and so many €. In Swedish (on this particular board) it was translated as "svart kaffe" ("black coffee").

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: NorthernCoder

Here in the UK, due to money saving needs, they removed all the free coffee machines about a year after installing them. Then they removed the water coolers for taps. I think the last set of workers must did their own wells...

[Tom 38]

Re: If only . . .

You need to find a better boss, we have 6 of these babies dotted around the office.

[Steve Foster]

Re: If only . . .

Holy crap, £7k for a coffee machine?

[Tom 38]

Re: If only . . .

It's only £7k without the warranty - which is essential - so add another £2k to each one. We broke two of the machines within a month of moving here, simply by, as the engineer put it 'making too much coffee'. We didn't pay that much anyway, I think around £6k with warranty.

Before we had the machines, in our old offices, we had tubs of Nescafe, which no-one drank, and loads of people popping out each hour to get their fix. £36k over 3 years in capex, but it keeps employees in the office and working.

There should be some sort of coffee icon..

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: If only . . .

Only £36k over 3 years to dose your staff up with a performance enhancing drug - sounds like a bargain.

Ask Lance Armstrong

[Boothy]

Re: If only . . .

We get coffee free (and tea etc) just vending machines but it's still fresh ground (they are just loaded with whole beans.

If only the milk in the machines was any good, bleh!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: If only . . .

You work in IT and don't get free coffee at your workplace!!!????!??!!?? I mean sure, stuff from the coffee shop is better, but you need something to fall back on in an emergency.

That's no laughing matter </shocked>!

[Richard 81]

Splutter!

"Dr Chen is indisputably a real doctor and a proper boffin - as opposed to the larger and less distinguished category of "scientist" - being an MD as well as a PhD."

How dare you Sir! Such an inflammatory statement just caused this doctor* to splutter his delicious and health-giving juice of the naughty bean across the desk.

*PhD only and you can cram it where tech news hacks traditionally cram things.

[frank ly]

@Dr. 81 Re: Splutter!

Dr. Chen is a double doctor. I wonder if he has a TARDIS? Do you?

P.S. For what it's worth, I consider the man who prescribes my medication to be a 'qualified medical practitioner' (and not a particularly particularly bright one). You da real doc, boffin and all.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: @Dr. 81 Splutter!

The medical doctor (GP) who drinks in our beer garden describes those with PhDs as being 'real doctors' as they have written a doctorate.

[Maty]

Re: @Dr. 81 Splutter!

No, Sir,

'Real doctors' wrote a thesis and were awarded a doctorate. (From the Latin participle 'doctus' meaning 'learned'.)

[Irony Deficient]

doctus

Maty, the Latin participle doctus means “taught” (well, really “having-been-taught”, since it’s in the perfect passive). It’s the Latin adjective doctus that means “learnèd”.

Thus, every homo doctus is a homo doctus, but not every homo doctus is a homo doctus. ;*)

[Michael Dunn]

Re: doctus @Irony Deficient

Sir, that's worth ten upvotes; sadly I'm only allowed one.

[Anonymous Coward]

Caffeinated vs defcaf?

Was there any inquiry made into any difference in those numbers of mental issues for Decaf vs caffeinated coffee?

I only ask because once many years ago I worked for a company that made us do kitchen duties (clean, empty coffee machine, bring the milk in, empty dishwasher etc..) so I changed the coffee in the machine for a week or 2 to decaff. Nobody seemed to notice, but after I changed them back some of the more hardcore coffee addict.. err.. I mean drinkers, did seem a bit manic.

Anon, because even after all these years I still am a little worried what they might do if they found out I messed with their caffeine fix.

[hplasm]

Re: Caffeinated vs defcaf?

Only the mad would drink decaf.

I mean- like no-alchohol beer. Why?????

[Don Jefe]

Re: Caffeinated vs defcaf?

It makes the cigarettes better fool!

[sisk]

Re: Caffeinated vs defcaf?

I switched to decaf for a few years for health reasons. After the initial couple weeks of getting over my caffeine addiction I became much easier to live with according to my wife. Interestingly during that time I ended up switching from normal decaf to Teeccino (which, for those who don't know, is basically herbal tea that tastes vaguely like coffee) because I found out that the decaf is even worse than soda health wise.

Unfortunately my caffeine addiction reasserted itself when I had to start getting up an hour and a half earlier than I have for the entirety of my adult life to start putting a little person on a school bus, but at least I've kept it down to a cup or two a day rather than the four to six pots a day I used to drink (no, that's not an exaggeration).

[jake]

Workplace coffee sucks. Always.

I wake up over three 12oz cups of coffee. Beans roasted & milled on the premises daily.

I hydrate with water. It's the liquid of the gaw/dess's.

Any liquid with sugar in it is crap, unless I'm planning on fermenting it ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Workplace coffee sucks. Always.

I really really hate you at times Jake. Then I should direct my energies at avoiding the Workplace rather than petty jealousy.

[Lamont Cranston]

"12oz cups"?

I drink out of a mug.

[jake]

Re: "12oz cups"?

Fair enough. 12oz mug, then :-)

Cylindrical ceramic thingie with a handle, holds about 0.35l. Holds the heat in nicely, too. We're more alike than we are different, kids, regardless of which side of the pond we reside in/on ;-)

[Lamont Cranston]

Re: "more alike than we are different"

I'll drink to that, jake! I'm still not measuring the capacity of my mug, though.

[Kubla Cant]

Re: "12oz cups"?

12oz - rather over half a pint (imperial, three-quarters of a pint US) - ugh!

In a country like Italy, where they understand coffee, a cup of coffee will be small and strong (even if it's cappuccino). One of the regrettable things we've acquired from the US is the practice of serving great buckets of coffee. Starbuck's is especially blameworthy, with its vile thick mugs of milky pap. (Of course that isn't the worst thing about Starbuck's.)

[Dave 126]

Re: "12oz cups"?

>In a country like Italy, where they understand coffee, a cup of coffee will be small and strong (even if it's >cappuccino).

And they serve it with glasses of water.

[Michael Dunn]

Re: "12oz cups"? @Dave 126

"And they serve it with glasses of water." Ditto Greece.

When I was in Thailand the coffee shops served glasses of coffee together with a glass of weak tea, so that you knew it had been boiled.

[Destroy All Monsters]

Re: Workplace coffee sucks. Always.

Listen to this man!

[jake]

@DAM, RE: "Listen to this man!"

No, please, do not ... rather, instead, TRY what I suggest & make up your own mind ... I ain't perfect, far from it ... I haven't had anyone bitch about my coffee in the last thirty years, though ;-)

[Tom 38]

Re: Workplace coffee sucks. Always.

Our workplace coffee comes from beans roasted and milled the second you press the espresso button. Coffee isn't meant to be a drink drunk in gallons, just small powerful shots that you neck - drink water if you're thirsty.

[Destroy All Monsters]

Re: Sweet Poison

Please no more stuff from neurotics.

[Greg J Preece]

Re: Sweet Poison

That would be the same Janet Starr Hull, "Nutrition Counsellor" (not a legally protected term, ever) who takes part in documentary videos about the expanding Earth hypothesis (I refuse to call it a theory)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8cJCvDnlfA&feature=player_embedded

That one? That's your credible source on aspartame? The bullshitter who sells diets based on vague fears over "toxicity" that claim to reduce your cancer risk? (She would never say "prevent", just heavily imply it.)

Fuck off.

[Destroy All Monsters]

Re: Sweet Poison

The expanding Earth hypothesis is serious!

I saw it in New Scientist!11!

[Andrew 86]

Re: Sweet Poison

From what little reseach I have done CocaCola has HFCS (Corn Syrup, not sure about UK bottled ones) in them which is even worse!! and is linked to obesity. so much so when coacola introduced it is sales per year per person want 300 to 600.

[Tom 38]

Re: Sweet Poison

No HFCS anywhere apart from the US and Japan. Even the Mexicans don't put it in their Coke.

[Omgwtfbbqtime]

Re: Sweet Poison

Does not look like there was any analysis between type of sweetener (aspartame, sucralose, Acesulfame K, sodium sacharin, etc).

Regardless of the hype/fud from either side of the pro/anti sweetener fanatics, sweeteners tend too be too damn sweet and I prefer good old fashioned raw cane sugar if I have to have it (sugar from sugarbeet tends to leave an aftertaste if fermented, raw cane doesn't) ansd the less processing the better.

I'm looking at stevia to replace the small amount of sugar i have in a bucket of coffee since it is a plant extract rather than something that is only found in a testube.

[Kubla Cant]

Re: Sweet Poison

Sucralose (aka Splenda) is actually made from sugar. As one of the partners in its development was Tate and Lyle, it's probably cane sugar. I don't know if that makes it better-tasting, or better for you.

[Some Beggar]

Re: Sweet Poison

since it is a plant extract rather than something that is only found in a testube

Favouring plant extracts over synthetic chemicals is an excellent rule of thumb. I mean ... if you ignore opium, hemlock, belladonna, cyanide, ricin ...

Wait ... I don't mean an excellent rule of thumb, do I? I mean a really really terrible rule of thumb.

[Omgwtfbbqtime]

@some beggar

whoosh straight over your head there.

I didn't say it was a good rule of thumb just that I would prefer a natural product to a synthetic one.

You keep eating transfats and hydrogenated fats and I'll stick to saturated animal fats, thank you very much.

Opium, Hemlock, Belladonna - fair enough, I'm quite partial to several members of the nightshade family (potatoes, tomatoes, peppers...) but cyanide? has to be processed to extract it, ricin? has to be processed from castor beans.

Next!

[Some Beggar]

Re: @some beggar

And sugar has to be processed from sugar cane.

I didn't miss your point. You didn't make a point.

[Omgwtfbbqtime]

Re: @some beggar

So you were just being objectionable for the sake of it?

[Some Beggar]

Re: @some beggar

@omgwftbbqtime

The idea that natural = good and artificial = bad is utterly moronic.

Is that less objectionable?

[Omgwtfbbqtime]

Re: @some beggar

Provided that you agree that the opposite (artificial =good and natural=bad is utterly moronic) holds true as well.

[Anonymous Coward]

HFCS popular in US because it's massively subsidised

"No HFCS anywhere apart from the US and Japan. Even the Mexicans don't put it in their Coke."

That's correct- UK Coke doesn't contain HFCS, in fact it's relatively uncommon here. We still use, er.... sugar. :-)

AFAIK the near-total replacement of sugar by HFCS in the US food industry is mainly due to the massive subsidies their corn industry receives, rendering HFCS (and other corn-derived products) artificially cheap, as well as to their large import tariffs on sugar.

Guessing it'd be a violation of trade agreements to sell it on the world market at the same (subsidised) prices, which would explain its far lesser popularity outside the US (or maybe their own people are consuming all they can make anyway). Doesn't explain why Japan is the exception, though;; if anything I'd have thought Mexico more likely to use it, as that's part of the NAFTA trading block.

Anyway, as long as I don't have to consume that crap.... :-)

[sisk]

Re: HFCS popular in US because it's massively subsidised

HFCS is popular because we've been given little choice for most of the last 30 years or so. Real sugar sodas are making a comeback here though. PepsiCo calls theirs 'throwback' because real sugar soda hasn't been available in the US since the 80s. It tastes MUCH better than anything made with HFCS.

[I. Aproveofitspendingonspecificprojects]

Re: Sweet Poison

Of course they don't.

The United States of Americans put it in their coke for them. How do you think the recipe is only known by two people when they have bottling plants all over the world?

Hint:

They make the syrup in the USA.

Please give me negative points. Points make prizes when they come from idiots like you.

[Some Beggar]

Re: Sweet Poison

Would that be Janet Starr Hull the self-appointed guru with an internet PhD who charges people a couple of hundred dollars to tell them how much lead they have in their pubic hair?

Yeah. I think I'll be taking her advice on nutrition.

[Michael Dunn]

Re: Sweet Poison

Hence the saying "Puts some lead in your pencil"?

[I. Aproveofitspendingonspecificprojects]

Moron Poison

Sad to see you marked down after taking on one of the Chimp's minders.

So I gave you one. I would have given you two. One for hitting at Donald Rumsfeld' company and corrupt politics and one for being right.

Unfortunately Internet forae are no place to be right.

(Unless you are a wing nut (with a penchant for bananas.))

[Maty]

Re: Moron Poison

Good one, Sir.

'Forae' are indeed no place to be right, and 'forae' is about as wrong as a forosum post (hey, I can play too) can be.

The usual English plural is 'forums'. If you must affect knowledge of Latin, the Latin nominative plural is 'fora'. In fact in all the forms of 'forum' including genitive, ablative and dative, 'forae' does not exist.

Nevertheless 'quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur', eh?

[thomas k.]

great news!

So, if I stop drinking diet soda (and I do drink a fair amount on a daily basis), the facts that I live from paycheck to paycheck, barely scraping by, and am being hounded by collection agencies for the medical insurance deductables I can't afford to pay will no longer depress me? I can just laugh all that off?

At least I could then stop taking the anti-depressents I'm currently prescribed but if I wasn't drinking all that diet soda I wouldn't need them, I guess.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: great news!

Out of interest, how much does all that diet soda cost?

[thomas k.]

Re: great news!

$2 - $3 a 12-pack for the bargain stuff and I drink a couple a day at home, but I also go through 2-3 cans work every night, which is provided at no charge to me.

[I. Aproveofitspendingonspecificprojects]

Soda

Any idea how much soda there actually is in soda?

I get the impression that salt levels are similar to that of sea water.

That can't be right can it?

[Whitter]

Lost empire...

Coffee? What about tea!!!

[Dave 126]

Re: Lost empire...

Douglas Adams, How to Make a Cup of Tea:

http://www.h2g2.com/approved_entry/A61345

Tea is good for you. The function of gut bacteria is an area that is still yielding new discoveries, but green tea has been show to encourage good bacteria (more so than any 'pro-biotic' yoghurt drinks). It's one of those things that has been known in China for thousands of years. Even we know that a good cup of tea after a full-English breakfast is good for cutting through the grease, making the back of our throats a less bacteria that might give us 'strep-throat'.

There is an Chinese saying that "Vegetable soup makes you calm and happy" and I remember reading about ten years ago that scientists had only just got around to confirming that empirically: they discovered that eating vegetable soup for a fortnight resulted in marked drop in stress hormones in the blood.

[Andrew Moore]

Surely...

...a cup of tea is the choice of the workplace professional.

[Lamont Cranston]

Re: Surely...

The choice between a limescalescale-encrusted kettle, and a boiler (which is only ever hot, not boiling) make a decent cup of tea an impossibility at the office. No tea is preferable to bad tea.

Instant coffee, however, is a little like sex or wine, in so much as that even though it is bad, it is usually good enough.

[jake]

@Lamont Cranston (was: Re: Surely...)

"Instant coffee, however, is a little like sex or wine, in so much as that even though it is bad, it is usually good enough."

Oh my. You are really young, aren't you? Might want to be quiet when the adults are in the room.

[Fibbles]

Re: @Lamont Cranston (was: Surely...)

Heh, I'm actually agreeing with jake...

The only time bad sex is 'good enough' is when you're a teenager. Although those of us who've been in a relationship for some time would probably also point out that a quick session is not necessarily a bad one. Especially after a long day at work.

[Lamont Cranston]

Re: @Fibbles

I have a full time job and three children so, at the end of any day, I'll take whatever I can get - be it coffee, wine, or sex - and the quality is not always my top concern!

[jake]

@Lamont Cranston (was: Re: @Fibbles)

I feel so sorry for you. Sorrier for your wife. And even sorrier for your kids.

[jake]

@Fibbles (Was: Re: @Lamont Cranston (was: Surely...))

So-called "quickies" are good ... Hint for all the kids in the audience: Pick a simple pocket token[1]. The first time around, keep it secretly ready for when your .sig-other is having a really bad day. Hand it to 'em, explaining that "this is a freebie, but any time you want a quickie, anywhere, pass it to me, and we'll find a way ASAP ... next time it's my turn, and I hand it back to you, and etc.". Works wonders, if you & your partner trust each other[0]. I've suggested this to various folks over the years, all have thanked me :-)

[0] If you don't, why are you still partners? Move on, already!

[1] Ours is an alumin(i)um bit of Ford 427ci piston skirt that my wife grenaded[2] when I was teaching her the fine points of 200MPH+ drag racing ... she was in tears because she broke the motor. The tears turned to embarrassed giggles, which is what I was after.

[2] PM suggested valve-train failure, probably my fault. I picked the piece off the track at about the 50 foot mark. 20 years ago. I have absolutely no idea how the idea popped into my head.

[NorthernCoder]

Re: Surely...

"Instant coffee, however, is a little like sex or wine, in so much as that even though it is bad, it is usually good enough."

Surely you were being sarcastic there? May I suggest using El Reg's <irony> tags, or something similar?

[AceRimmer]

Re: Surely...

More of a language fail than a sarcasm fail, I think he meant something along the lines of:

Even instant coffee is better than no coffee.

which would be analogous to :

Even bad sex is better than no sex

Which, as a dedicated coffee drinker, I can definitely agree with.

[Lamont Cranston]

Thanks, Ace.

Close enough, byt "even instant coffee is preferable to bad tea" was what I was going for.

A quick test for everyone: next time you're near a hot drinks machine, get a cup each of tea and coffee from it - both will be awful, naturally, but only one will taste like it's actively trying to ruin your day.

[Gazareth]

Re: Thanks, Ace.

It'll taste almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea.

[Dave 126]

Re: Thanks, Ace.

There is a very simple principle to the making of tea and it's this - to get the proper flavour of tea, the water has to be boiling (not boiled) when it hits the tea leaves. If it's merely hot then the tea will be insipid. That's why we English have these odd rituals, such as warming the teapot first (so as not to cause the boiling water to cool down too fast as it hits the pot). And that's why the American habit of bringing a teacup, a tea bag and a pot of hot water to the table is merely the perfect way of making a thin, pale, watery cup of tea that nobody in their right mind would want to drink. The Americans are all mystified about why the English make such a big thing out of tea because most Americans have never had a good cup of tea. That's why they don't understand. In fact the truth of the matter is that most English people don't know how to make tea any more either, and most people drink cheap instant coffee instead, which is a pity, and gives Americans the impression that the English are just generally clueless about hot stimulants.

-Douglas Adams

[I. Aproveofitspendingonspecificprojects]

Re: Thanks, Ace.

What you have to do is warm the oil condensate off the pot with hot water and then add the leaves and the boiling water. Instant coffee is OK~ish with warm water as it is a processed food that just needs rehydrating.

[EvilGav 1]

Re: Surely...

Tea should be made with water around 85C, not boiling.

I very much enjoy my 2 or 3 500ml cups of tea a day.

[Anonymous Coward]

whereas sweetened beverages are effectively a form of tinned or bottled death.

That's not the catchiest advertising tag line, but it did make me want a coke zero.

[Michael Dean]

Digging Further

If we follow the link to AAN piece we get this

"The study involved 263,925 people between the ages of 50 and 71 at enrollment. From 1995 to 1996, consumption of drinks such as soda, tea, fruit punch and coffee was evaluated. About 10 years later, researchers asked the participants whether they had been diagnosed with depression since the year 2000. A total of 11,311 depression diagnoses were made."

Way too many other possible reasons for depression could have happen - taking a wild guess with the age spread presented I think a few loved ones may have gone on rather than too many diet cokes.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Digging Further

Survivorship bias: perhaps most of the depressed coffee drinkers had enough 'get up and go' to top themselves and didn't make the count.

[Anonymous Coward]

Depressed? Why should I be depressed?

Here I am, brain the size of a planet, and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper, sod all to do with fizzy drinks. Do you know the probability of a robot drinking fizzy pop? If I wasn't so depressed I'd tell you.

[Magister]

The cup that cheers, but does not inebriate

Tea. Big mug, splash of milk, two digestive biscuits.

If I can't have tea, then I would much rather have a cup of hot Bovril.

Coffee is a very poor substitute

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The cup that cheers, but does not inebriate

>Big mug

Minimum, pint mug super heated in the microwave to get that extra strong tea flavour out of the leaves.

[Kubla Cant]

Re: The cup that cheers, but does not inebriate

Actually, "the cups that cheer, but do not inebriate". Although attributed to William Cowper, this description was originated by Bishop George Berkeley, he of the silent tree falling in the forest. He was talking about tar water, to which he attributed medicinal properties.**

Tar water is available from the vending machines in all the offices where I've worked, but they usually call it coffee.

** Curiously, this information comes from Bertrand Russell's History of Western Philosophy

[Dave 126]

Re: The cup that cheers, but does not inebriate

Bob Dylan's Theme Time Radio Hour had an episode called "Coffee", well worth a traipse across the interwebs to find... Apparently, one Pope liked this new-fangled drink so much that he baptised it.

Speaking of mathematicians (Russell, not Dylan), it was said of Paul Erdős by his colleague Alfréd Rényi "a mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems".

[Destroy All Monsters]

> Depressed all day, every day

> No Coke or Diet Coke

> Drink unsweetened coffee as if caffeine is the key to being one of the Chosen Ones when the rapture comes

> "Cutting out or down on sweetened diet drinks or replacing them with unsweetened coffee may naturally help lower your depression risk"

My Face When

[Greg J Preece]

You know what would depress me? Living a health-freak's life. Every time I pick up a drink or snack these days there's someone around to tell me all the ways it's going to kill me.

GOOD!

I'd rather drop dead at 70 having eaten and drank every bloody thing I like than make it to 75 without Dr Pepper. I've no intention of becoming a man-mountain, but I'm not about to start snacking on the muesli either.

</grumpy_old_man_who_is_actually_in_his_mid_20s>

[Lee Dowling]

Muesli is fried. It's probably one of the worst things you can eat. Go compare the nutritional information to any other cereal (e.g. honey-nut cornflakes) next time you are in a supermarket.

That said, it tastes like bird-seed and I'm with you on the first part, so I avoid it for that reason.

I'd like a life experienced for 70 years, than death avoided through sacrifice of that experience for 100.

[Mark Pattison]

Muesli

Give it up, muesli is mainly made of uncooked rolled oats.

I've done the comparison you suggest with a random muesli is lower in calories and suger, and higher in fibre:

http://www.ocado.com/webshop/product/Dorset-Cereals-Simply-Delicious-Muesli/31166011

http://www.ocado.com/webshop/product/Kelloggs-Crunchy-Nut-Corn-Flakes/10013011

[I. Aproveofitspendingonspecificprojects]

Smokin hot

>I'd like a life experienced for 70 years, than death avoided through sacrifice of that experience for 100.

My dad used to say that.

About tobacco.

Capstan Navy Cut.

Then he got cancer.

That frightened him.

But hey, he had a life full of experience right up until his 70's. 71 -and shitty health for decades.

He smelt like a red tide. I don't know what people dying of sugar poisoning smell like.

[Magnus_Pym]

@Greg J Preece

"I'd rather drop dead at 70 having eaten and drank every bloody thing I like than make it to 75 without Dr Pepper. I've no intention of becoming a man-mountain, but I'm not about to start snacking on the muesli either."

Don't you mean

"I'd rather spend my years from 45 to 70 taking ever increasing handfuls of powerful medications with nasty debilitating side effects and sleeping with a tubes up my nose and into my bladder. Slowly, slowly, ever-so-slowly slipping from a painful life to ignominious death - than consider my own and my dependants/loved ones futures a little tiny bit".

[Greg J Preece]

Re: @Greg J Preece

I'd rather spend my years from 45 to 70 taking ever increasing handfuls of powerful medications with nasty debilitating side effects and sleeping with a tubes up my nose and into my bladder. Slowly, slowly, ever-so-slowly slipping from a painful life to ignominious death - than consider my own and my dependants/loved ones futures a little tiny bit.

No, you condescending git, I don't. I mean that it's impossible to pick up anything these days without hearing about how it will kill me, so rather than spend the rest of my life worrying about dying from a thousand cuts, I'm going to continue the laser tag, skiing and otherwise pratting about that keeps me in reasonable condition, and eat and drink as I normally do. No smoking, no heroin, just the odd cider, and lots of chinese food.

And the most likely outcome from that? I'll live for pretty much the same length of time, but be far happier at the end of it.

[Dave 126]

Re: @Greg J Preece

Yeah, but it is actually healthier to eat something fatty at breakfast, since it 'sets' your body to deal with it throughout the day. Carbs are good at lunch, but in the evening just stick to meat and veg (you don't need carbs to sit back and relax). Easy.

[Some Beggar]

Re: @Greg J Preece

Yeah, but it is actually healthier to eat something fatty at breakfast, since it 'sets' your body to deal with it throughout the day

Good grief. This is like a Gillian McKeith convention of nutritional nonsense.

[Magnus_Pym]

Re: @Greg J Preece

And the most likely outcome from that?

Knee and hip joint problems. High blood pressure. Heart disease.

[Fibbles]

Re: @Greg J Preece

"I'd rather spend my years from 45 to 70 taking ever increasing handfuls of powerful medications with nasty debilitating side effects and sleeping with a tubes up my nose and into my bladder. Slowly, slowly, ever-so-slowly slipping from a painful life to ignominious death - than consider my own and my dependants/loved ones futures a little tiny bit".

Anecdotal but...

The vast majority of people I know are not health freaks. Of those in the 45 - 70 age range only a tiny minority are on any medication as far as I'm aware. Only one (actually over 70) has tubes for breathing and that's because he worked as a painter in the ship yards before anyone gave a fuck about the health and safety of workers.

Hopefully I'll have the genetic resilience and luck of my great-grandad who had a full English every day, enjoyed his whisky and regularly smoked cigars. He lived in good health well into his 80s and enjoyed every minute of it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: note *canned* sodas

Boy are you in trouble, don't you know the tin foil for your hat is actually sheet aluminium?

[Destroy All Monsters]

Re: note *canned* sodas

Also, the benzoate preservative reacts with the phosphoric acid in Da Coke, which will GIVE YOU LEUKEMIA.

Coke, Mandrake. Children's Coke Cans.

[Vladimir Plouzhnikov]

Re: note *canned* sodas

"It's the aluminium cans that are killing us."

No, it's chemtrails, as any fule kno.

[Anonymous Coward]

> that strong unsweetened coffee is the only correct workplace beverage

Tea, NATO.

[Anonymous Coward]

Depressed people aren't insane.

[Anonymous Coward]

It depends what you mean by "depressed people", and I think perhaps what you really mean is "Depressed people aren't crazy".

If you mean someone who is depressed because their dad died or some other traumatic event, then no they're not insane (or crazy).

If you mean some one suffering from depression as a disorder, rather than depression as rational mood state induced by circumstances, then by definition they are not sane.

Sane/Insane are not insults but technical terms (albeit ones which have fallen out of favour due to political correctness), the definition of sane is being in a rational state of mind.

IANAP (I Am Not A Psychiatrist) but if you are depressed due to metal illness your judgment is compromised to a greater or lesser degree and as such you are by definition not rational.

Not that I judge or criticise anyone for being depressed or having any other mental illness. It is just that, an illness, something the sufferer is blameless for and there are a variety of treatments available.

[Anonymous Coward]

Also it annoys me when they change the name of charities because of current political correctness or insults being used.

The Spastics Society changed it's name to Scope because the word spastic was commonly being used as an insult, even though the name of the charity came from the name of the illnesses involved such as Spastic Diplegia.

Would Cancer Research change it's name if people were using the word cancer as an insult?

[Anonymous Coward]

strong unsweetened coffee

By "coffee" I assume he means real (Espresso) coffee, not that filtered watery rats piss you get everywhere in the USA.

[Some Beggar]

Re: strong unsweetened coffee

Espresso was invented because there were tax benefits for serving coffee to customers who stood up rather than sat down at a table. It tastes crap compared to a decent cup of properly brewed coffee. Anybody who thinks their life is too busy and important to spend five minutes having a real coffee needs to take a good look in the mirror. The fact that an Emperor's New Clothes snobbery has grown around it is mildly amusing.

[Phil W]

10 years and still not depressed

I've been drinking Diet Pepsi mostly every day, approximately 1 litre a day, for a little over 10 days and can't say I feel remotely depressed.

Cynical, and socially awkward yes, but I was like that before I started drinking diet soft drinks.

As many many people have point out correlation does not equal causation.

The study in question does not actually factor in other factors such as diet. I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that a number of the participants had a family history of depression, but it wasn't factored in because it was never acknowledged/diagnosed/treated.

I also wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that some of them had diets lacking in carbohydrates. Since these are required for the body to form serotonin, it is a much more likely cause of depression than diet soft drinks.

P.S. I also enjoy the occasional strong black unsweetened coffee, but I seriously doubt this would counter any negative effects of diet pepsi.

[Phil W]

Re: 10 years and still not depressed

10 Years that should be, not 10 days, Obviously.

If it made you depressed in 10 days I'd definitely of noticed by now!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: 10 years and still not depressed

You've drunk a litre a day for 10 years -- that makes me depressed.

[teebie]

Could we have science stories that are less Goldacreable on The Register please? It isn't supposed to be the Daily Mail

[Bodhi]

I assume we are ignoring the many dodgy side effects of coffee, such as

- Caffeine dependency

- Increased risk of pancreatic and bladder cancer (which I had 7 years ago, and the docs put it down to coffee)

- Increased risk of glaucoma

- Insomnia

- High blood pressure

etc etc.

Given that it's not particularly good for you and tastes like sh*t, I'll stick to full-fat Pepsi thanks.

[John Smith 19]

The sweetned thing suggests aspartane.

Which was linked to depression to the point where trials were stopped because the patients were viewed as serious risks of suicide.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8373935 (scroll to bottom of page for abstract).

For most people it might be OK but for a proportion of the population it appears Aspartane (created by the everyone's favorite agrichemicals and GM company Monsanto) is about as good an idea as working in a climbing rope shop or a plastic bag factory.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The sweetned thing suggests aspartane.

* ASPARTAME

[Anonymous Coward]

What about tea?

Coffee isn't the only alternative to Coke. We're British for Christ's sake - we're supposed to like tea.

[Anonymous Coward]

Possible link

Is it just me that thinks like this? People who drink diet drinks are usually hung up on their weight so more likely to be depressed about it. Just a thought.

Anon because this may sound stupid

[Select * From Handle]

Dammit...

I have been quaffing Canderel sweetener in my tea since el Reg posted an article that coffee/tea in the work place is the main reason for IT staff being fat... i don't want to be FAT! But i don't want to lose my sanity either! :( Rock/Hardplace

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Dammit...

Sugar is fine. Just don't eat an excessive amount of it.

Or do more activity.

[Magnus_Pym]

Is it because...

... diet drinks are SO DEADLY yet much easier to get hold of than TOXIC QUANTITIES of over-the-counter medication that it has become the CRY FOR HELP of choice for depressed people?

* Emphasis is mine.

[Imsimil Berati-Lahn]

But... Brawndo has got what your body craves...

... It's got... electrolytes!

Here is my worthless opinion:

Tea=stimulating and tasty beverage.

Coffee=bitter tasting medicine useful for getting through dull meetings without snoring.

Soda (or Pop as I prefer to call it)=a drink best enjoyed at birthday parties with jelly and crisps.

[Boothy]

Re: But... Brawndo has got what your body craves...

"Soda (or Pop as I prefer to call it)=a drink best enjoyed with lashings of vodka added."

There, fixed that for you...

[Lamont Cranston]

Re: But... Brawndo has got what your body craves...

If you find coffee to be too bitter, you should try a cup of Kopi Luwak, as it's not bitter in the slightest, yet still tastes like coffee.

[the-it-slayer]

Only applies to excess drinking of the pop kind?

Just like with everything life, everything's alright if done in MODERATION. The word is in caps because life is all about balance. Go for the imbalance and bugger yourself all over. I'm drinking a can of Coca-Cola (no, not the the thin stuff). Tastes lovely once in a blue moon.

And coffee? Now I don't need to rely on it to give me a kick in the mornings, a sugarless cappuccino or straight Kenco (with little milk) tastes immense for a tiny bit of happiness.

[Dave 126]

Re: Only applies to excess drinking of the pop kind?

Quite right, I don't think anybody needs to drink pints of anything a day, except for water and beer of course. Orange juice is good for you in moderation, but it can be to easy to quaff the whole carton.

[Dan Paul]

Diet Soda

One of the issues with Diet Soda is the fact that "Nutrasweet" or Aspartame is known to partially breakdown into Methyl Alcohol when mixed with water and allowed to reach temperatures over 90F.

Canned or bottled soda sits on the back of an unrefrigerated truck or in a warehouse where these temperatures are common place. Fountain soda outlets (restauraunts) use other types of sweetenters than aspartame for this reason (even less temperature control)

Drinking methyl alcohol in any quantity is not good for anyone but even small quantities may induce mental problems over a long term of exposure. Methyl alcohol is also produced in incorrect fermentation situations (bad moonshine).

Plain old cane sugar, while "fattening" does not have any known "toxicity" levels.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Diet Soda

" even small quantities may induce mental problems"

I drin lost of diert drins and I dnt hav mental prollems.

[Helldesk Dogsbody]

Confirmation of what we already knew

Most of us were already aware that to find any sanity in most companies you have to talk to IT and that if you deny coffee to your technical staff you're likely to have a revolt on your hands, this merely explains the correlation between the two :D

[zb]

Phd and medical doctor?

Should he be called Dr Dr Chen?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Phd and medical doctor?

Only in Germany.

[Atonnis]

Another option?

Couldn't they just come up with another option, instead of a stinking, brown liquid that makes me turn blotchy, rash-covered and praying to the porcelain god?

Yeh, I'm allergic to the vile stuff. I wish people'd stop trying to make my workplace reek of it. If you want a 'good morning' smell, make it bacon...

[Michael Dunn]

Re: Another option?

make it bacon. - difficult to drink!

[Supportomancer]

What else is there?

I drink diet coke because:

1. I think it tastes better than full fat coke

2. coffee tastes like savoury shit (or rather what I imagine savoury shit would taste like, not having actually eaten shit...)

3. tea tastes like burnt water

So what other beverage should I be drinking instead if I want my caffeine fix?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: What else is there?

I heard that cocaine is a hell of a drug.

[the-it-slayer]

Re: What else is there?

I drink diet coke because:

1. I think it tastes better than full fat coke - You have weird taste buds!

2. coffee tastes like savoury shit (or rather what I imagine savoury shit would taste like, not having actually eaten shit...) - You must be drinking shite coffee or not a city worker. Must admit, had the same opinion until my taste buds warmed to the taste. Must admit, I had the same opinion first.

3. tea tastes like burnt water - Again, must be crap tea.

So what other beverage should I be drinking instead if I want my caffeine fix? - Alient juice from your comments above. It doesn't exist, but tastes greeeeeeeeat!

[Lamont Cranston]

Re: What else is there?

To be fair, Diet Coke is nicer tasting than regular Coke, owing to it being sweeter (I think this is the same reason that the Pepsi Challenge always resulted in the participants preferring Pepsi over Coke*).

I shan't be defending the OPs stance on tea/coffee, however.

*only true in small quantities, all types of cola taste pretty rough after you've had a cupful.

[John 62]

Re: What else is there?

some people argue that we don't really taste certain things, we feel it and smell it. Artificial sweeteners are so much more potent than sugar that you need far less volume, which makes the liquid feel different in the mouth, though, personally I don't agree regarding coke. Diet coke doesn't taste 'sweet' to me. I concede that sometimes I find it hard to tell diet pepsi from regular if it's from a fountain and if there's lots of ice in it. But then I think that's Pepsi's fault for producing an inferior product. Though I did once buy a half-litre bottle of pepsi max by mistake (no coke and the max bottle looked very similar to the normal pepsi) and had to buy something else instead as I couldn't drink the max nonsense. I know some people who can't tell the difference between coke and coke zero whereas I can barely drink coke zero because of the foul taste. coke zero being diet coke marketed for men (though there is a minor difference in the ratio of phosphoric acid to other ingredients as you can see if you compare the ingredients lists of diet coke and zero).

On the other hand I much prefer artificially sweetened blackcurrant cordial over sugar-sweetened because it doesn't taste as sweet to me. Though in bars, the bar staff are so inconsistent in how much cordial they put in, it's often hard to tell artificial vs sugar.

Finally, sugar would probably be considered an artificial sweetener if it was developed today. The refining process is pretty involved and probably isn't that much different from 'artificial' sweeteners made from naturally occurring substances.

[Vladimir Plouzhnikov]

Re: What else is there?

"3. tea tastes like burnt water"

I don't think you ever drunk tea in your life. FYI, "English Breakfast Tea" dust in bags made of toilet paper is *not* tea.

[Irony Deficient]

Well, there’s …

Supportomancer, have you tried hot cocoa? Or mate cocido (if you can find it)?

[Anonymous Coward]

sucralose..

.is known to cause depression / suicidal feelings. Of course the manufacturers deny this. Aspartame breaks down into very nasty chemicals in the body. So even if you need sweetness in your coffee dont use artificial sweeteners

[Some Beggar]

Re: sucralose..

Citation needed. Google Scholar says a fairly unequivocal "no".

The manufacturers presumably deny this because it is bollocks.

[John Smith 19]

Re: sucralose..

"Citation needed."

Happy to oblige.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8373935 (scroll to bottom of page for abstract).

And note the conditions under which the trial was terminated.

[Some Beggar]

Re: sucralose..

@John Smith 19

Ummm ... why have you linked to an article about aspartame when I asked for a citation about sucralose?

[John Smith 19]

Downvoted because?

As for why any mfg of any product would deny its product if used properly was bad for you the huge lawsuits that would result might have something to do with it.

This being a US company I'd go with the examples of the Ford Pinto and the Tobacco industries suppression of a)the addictive properties of Nicotine b)the fact they were controlling levels of it in cigarettes running over decades suggests such corporate behavior is not entirely unknown.

But note for most non-depressive people it's probably no more dangerous in large quantities than anything else.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: sucralose..

First of all - personal experience... was on it for a bit then stopped because frankly I couldn't be arsed getting the new pack out of the cupboard. Switched back to brown sugar in my coffee...

Then one Saturday morning my wife made coffee for me and used sucralose and within 3 hours I really did not give a shit about anything and frankly if I'd been hit by a car I wouldn't have cared less. I

There is a lot of stuff on the web about sucralose and depression and other issues. But I guess you'll say that because they're not the product of some "boffiny" research that its complete bollocks...

[Some Beggar]

Re: sucralose..

"boffiny" research

Yeah. Damn those scientists and their science. Damn them all to hell!

[John 62]

what do diet/lite drinks taste of?

depression

[Maty]

Classic G.K. Chesterton

Feast on wine or fast on water

And your honour shall stand sure,

God Almighty’s son and daughter

He the valiant, she the pure

If an angel out of heaven

Brings you other things to drink,

Thank him for his kind attentions,

And pour them down the sink.

.....

When red wine had brought red ruin

And the death-dance of our times,

Heaven sent us Soda Water

As a torment for our crimes.

[SirDigalot]

here in the ex-colonies

We have hot and cold running fresh ground coffee all day ( at least in my office) the problem is I drink tea, being born and raised in the motherland, so I don't care what they serve... I bring my own..

coke on the other hand, in the old country I used to drink diet coke or pepsi max, I did not really like diet coke out here, diet pepsi was palatable barely, diet dr pepper was the best of them at least...

now I drink regular coke, the problem is it tastes different, high fructose corn syrup makes it taste weird, so I spend my time finding the Mexican coke which is made with good old fashioned sugar, the taste is subtle but noticeable, it also seems to help in not giving me a hangover when I mix the Mexican coke with whiskey, although that is probably something totally unrelated...

either way regular coke tates better in England, or at least it did..

[stupormundi]

Soda pop

When you're obese, diabetic, and lined up to get arteriosclerosis and alzheimers later, you have much to be sad about. Such sadness if often confused with depression.

[Adam Inistrator]

post hoc ergo propter hoc

often abbreviated to just post hoc

[Anonymous Coward]

Not clear

whether we are talking about sugary drinks or those with artificial sweeteners.

From the words used it does seem as if they are alluding to sweeteners rather than sugar.

This is why 'NO ADDED SUGAR' is actually a very bad thing.

Humans have been consuming sugar for a long time. The effects of aspartame and other artificial sweeteners on the human body and mind are still poorly understood.

I try to avoid 'no added sugar' and 'diet' drinks at all times. This fad is just a way of trying to make people feel better about over-consuming when in fact they should just be balancing their consumption with their energy needs.

Besides, to me they taste horribly chemical.

[TimChuma]

What about canned coffee?

You can actually get canned coffee drinks in the same cans as fizzy drinks. Also Milo and Calpico (fermented fizzy milk drink.) I am scared to drink some of those drinks from the Asian supermarket, even when they are labelled I don't know what they taste like.

Also you can get tea and coffee mixed together in the local Malaysian restaurants, so it would be twice as good.