back to article 2020AD: Space tourists will be FOUND ON MOON

A group of former NASA employees are planning to send two people to the Moon for $1.4bn as part of a new space tourism venture. The newly launched Golden Spike Company wants to use existing rocket tech to get the mission off the ground before 2020. The firm said the time was ripe for their business because of the private …

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  1. nuked

    How much is it to return?

    1. John70
      Joke

      Don't forget luggage allowance and in-flight meals... That'll add to the price.

      1. Pen-y-gors

        and

        the $500m 'booking administration fee'

        1. CmdrX3

          Re: and

          "the $500m 'booking administration fee'"

          Per person.

          1. Great Bu

            Re: and

            ""the $500m 'booking administration fee'"

            Per person."

            Each Way.

    2. LarsG
      Meh

      All that money to use a portaloo, and you can't even go outside for a barbecue!

  2. Chris007
    Black Helicopters

    Not with Musk now they won't

    Now he's jumped into bed with the "black ops" brigade I suspect that soon they [Musk] will announce that they have no capacity for non-military and non-commercial space flights "for the foreseeable future"

    1. Joe Cooper
      Facepalm

      Re: Not with Musk now they won't

      No, that would be stupid. The whole point of the exercise is to spread the development and fixed costs among as many customers as possible. The military already has two dedicated lifters with longer and better records than SpaceX. They want the costs, which depend on having non military rockets.

      Its not a secret stellite. It's just a kerosene rocket.

  3. Lee Dowling Silver badge

    Not too sure that will ever happen. For a start, exploiting the moon for commercial gain without first consulting the rest of the world, and putting a couple of untrained people on the moon to do what they like is likely to lead to all sorts of trouble before you even start.

    Financial issues? Solved if they are paying the costs.

    Technical issues? Hell, we did it 40+ years ago, there's no reason we can't again. But it's still not safe.

    Safety issues? The chances of a remote-controlled moon visit are slim - the burden of a mission is the human-survival element, not who holds the joystick, and that's where most of the cost/problems come from (which is why we stopped doing human visits and starting doing remote-controlled visits in the first place).

    Political issues? That's going to be the killer.

    In the back of my mind, I'm picturing some rich Russian going up to the Moon and scuffing Armstrong's footprint and replacing the US flag with a Soviet one, but that's probably at the extreme end of the scale. There are any number of ways it could go wrong without there being a single technical hitch. And we've never had a space mission without a single technical hitch, ever.

    1. FartingHippo
      Stop

      Answers

      1) Consulting the world? I was unaware the moon sported a thriving ecosystem, or that the rocket would be chock full of diamonds on the return journey. I thought it was a boring dusty place. It's not like the mission is setting up a mining colony (although that would be cool).

      2) Financial issues/technical issues? Fair enough.

      3) Not safe? Please sign this waiver after signing your cheque. Or sign them the other way around, we're pretty relaxed about that.

      4) Political issues? Given the mess the Chinese and Russians make of their own back yard, I can't see them giving a rat's ass about some dusty footprints on the moon. If they manage to get your Russian billionaire that close to the Apollo 11 landing site, then fair play, but by then it's much too late for the 'merkins to get all huffy.

      5) Things will go wrong? No sh*t Sherlock. You pays your money and you takes your chance.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Answers

        Not safe? Please sign this waiver after signing your cheque. Or sign them the other way around, we're pretty relaxed about that

        Went skiing when living in the US 12 years ago and when I hired ski-equipment I had to sign a declaration which stated that I understood that skiing was dangerous and could lead to serious injury or death! Think the US legal system has already worked out how to deal with the "not safe" issue.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Happy

          Re: Answers

          I went shooting in the states and had to sign I wasn't going to commit suicide, shoot someone and was mentally stable in order to sign the agreement.

          Covering your ass, you betcha.

          1. Tim #3

            Re: Answers

            And don't forget, on your in-flight visa application you had to confirm that you weren't a visiting terrorist either. Not sure if that approach has always worked too reliably though.

            1. greenawayr
              FAIL

              Re: Answers

              @Tim #3

              "Er, I ticked 'Yes I am a terrorist' and I meant to tick 'No, I am not a terrorist'. Got any tipp-ex?"

          2. This post has been deleted by its author

        2. Evil Auditor Silver badge

          Re: cover your arse

          Ever did business with Google? Their contract draft for getting their search engine in our intranet contained a clause that they are not liable for any death caused by their product. It's a piece of software FFS!

      2. Lee Dowling Silver badge

        Re: Answers

        "I was unaware the moon sported a thriving ecosystem, or that the rocket would be chock full of diamonds on the return journey."

        I was thinking more along the lines of international agreements that no nation can claim any part of outer space as their own (own "an acre of Moon land"? I think the UN would disagree), leaving a sterile place sterile, not corrupting it for unnecessary purposes, but even things like not having to prove that said billionaire hasn't stuck something on the moon that another nation doesn't want on there.

        When you have the backing of a major world government, and get there first, you can ignore some of those, especially if it comes under the remit of science. When you're an Earth-bound commercial entity reliant on your government to grant licenses for you to even try to get into space, let alone send passengers, and those governments are signed up to certain international "space is not a place for anyone to own, or militarise" treaties, and you run the risk of putting some idiot into space at great ecological cost to the Earth (if nothing else) for no reason than to say hi to his mum, then you have a bigger problem.

        1. SkippyBing

          Re: Answers

          No nation can claim any part of outer space as their own, true for the time being although I can see that changing or being ignored once we start getting serious about leaving this planet. However as I understand it there's nothing to stop an individual claiming any part of outer space further I don't believe you need to own something to go there, otherwise I'd never go abroad or to my Mum's house.

        2. James Micallef Silver badge

          Re: Answers

          "international agreements that no nation can claim any part of outer space as their own"

          I think some sort of general consensus on those lines already exists (similair to agreements regarding Anatartcica?) which of course is easy to come by when 'owning' an acre of moon or an asteroid is a moot point. I wonder what will happen when it becomes a real possibility.

          1. AceRimmer
            Terminator

            Space Law

            Requires Space Lawyers!!

            And before you scoff there was one on the radio this morning

  4. Magister

    Is Delos D Harriman in charge of marketing this?

    (FWIW, I really hope that they succeed)

  5. Electric Panda
    Joke

    Think of the opportunities

    The aliens on the dark side of the moon would surely love to give McDonald's and Starbucks a whirl. Also Amazon could set up there as another innovative tax dodge.

    1. Isabello
      Coat

      <SLAP!>*

      *Sound of Amazon tax accountant realizing s/he should have thought of that one earlier

      That's the funding sorted then ;)

  6. TRT Silver badge
    Childcatcher

    How romantic!

    I see the ultimate honeymoon package... Where's the dollar sign icon gone?

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Go

    Ryan Air Are Doing It For £50

    However that is one way, no luggage and oxygen is extra.

    After checking in and credit card handling fees the return comes out at a very reasonable £2.1bn

    1. ukgnome
      Joke

      Re: Ryan Air Are Doing It For £50

      That sounded like a great deal until I realized that the flight actually goes to near the moon, but there is an hourly shuttle service to get you to the actual moon.

      *shuttle service, ha ha ha you can't make this shit up

      **appears that the shuttle service is no longer viable due to cancellations, so I guess the only moon flight option is easy (ram)jet

      1. hplasm
        Happy

        Re: Ryan Air Are Doing It For £50

        The Ryanair Moon flight lands in Florida- near enough to the Moon...

    2. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

      Re: Ryan Air Are Doing It For £50

      You know, it must a dream come true for Ryan Air - finally be able to charge for oxygen too..

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So I know now why they are opposed to the tax hike on the wealthy, they wouldn't be able to pay for their moon trip.

    1. TRT Silver badge
      Pint

      It's only for the mega-rich,

      But I don't mind that; the thought of them paying to drink their own recycled urine is just too enticing to be worth kicking up a fuss about it.

      1. Fred Flintstone Gold badge
        Pint

        Re: It's only for the mega-rich,

        the thought of them paying to drink their own recycled urine

        They're used to that with the beer they serve over there..

        1. Big-nosed Pengie

          Re: It's only for the mega-rich,

          That's an insult to recycled urine.

  9. Code Monkey
    Coat

    Russ Abbott rumoured to be "not in the least bit interested".

    Mine's the one with the 7" Atmosphere single in the pocket.

  10. LordHighFixer
    Coat

    The moon is a harsh mistress.

    See title.

    Mine is the one that is funny sometimes.

  11. Swoop
    Alert

    Needs a rethink

    Great, if they can make it work commercially. However, I think the plan to have the nearest available technical expertise 240,000 miles away needs a bit of a rethink. As Lee mentioned above, things can, and will, go wrong, and when they do the end result will be an untrained passenger fumbling around trying to make sense of the instructions radio'd to him/her from Mother Earth. Suddenly people's lives hang on the end of a tech support call.

    I predict the potential market for this idea will demand on-board technical skill.

    1. Swoop

      Re: Needs a rethink

      Oh, and the 1.5 second (each way) time lag on that tech support call will seem more like 1.5 years when it's panic stations.

      1. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

        Nah..

        .. they have McGiver..

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Joke

    and I hope one of them takes a model of a B52 bomber

    and leaves it on there .

    just so the Sunday Sport's headline can at last be true.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: and I hope one of them takes a model of a B52 bomber

      just so the Sunday Sport's headline can at last be true.

      only if they took a lancaster bomber as well!

  13. Jared Hunt
    Meh

    Don't hold your breath

    My first impression after looking at their proposal and reading subsequent discussion in various space forums is that this will be the latest in a long line of here today gone tomorrow space ventures that makes a lot of big, appealing claims, drums up a load of media hype and then is scarcely heard from again.

    I'm as annoyed as any space nerd that we haven't been back to the moon in 40 years but the idea that these guys are going to start from scratch and get a fully developed lunar transport architecture along the lines of what they're proposing is something that only people who know bugger all about space will swallow. There isn't even a current working US based system to get humans into orbit at the moment and they're going to develop a lunar transfer vehicle and a lunar lander as well? By 2020? Pull the other one!

    People will get back to the moon one day but it won't be Golden Spike that gets them there and it certainly won't be happening before 2020!

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "the time is ripe for the business"

    Anyone reminded of Magrathea?

  15. John H Woods Silver badge

    Space tourism ...

    ... the ultimate tax on the super rich?

    They want to enjoy amazing experiences, so they're happy to pay. We want better space infrastructure, so we're happy to oblige. If there's any better form of individual taxation, I'd like to hear it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Space tourism ...

      We're paying for it as they're dodging so much tax on their income and their businesses are dodging too.

  16. JeffyPooh
    Pint

    "2020AD"

    Yes. It's all perfectly true. Absolutely spot on.

    By the way, there's just one small typo. You spelled "2043AD" incorrectly.

  17. Evil Auditor Silver badge
    Trollface

    Learning to fly a rocket...

    ...can't be that difficult. It's pretty much the same as riding a bombshell. The only difference is, with the bomb you hope it will explode, with the rocket you hope it won't.

    1. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

      I just hope ..

      .. that "Golden Spike" is not a euphemism for how they will ride it..

      1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
        Coat

        Re: I just hope ..

        ".. that "Golden Spike" is not a euphemism for how they will ride it.."

        Only if they are Puritans.

        Mines the one with the Blackadder II DVD in the pocket.

      2. PhilBuk
        Unhappy

        Re: I just hope ..

        Worse - looking for the "Golden Spike" (or rivet) was the way that new navy cadets were persuaded to bend over the side of the ship. Not sure why they thought it was necessary though...

        Phil.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    1.6E9US$? Easy!

    OK, raising the money is easy:

    Kickstarter: Send Beiber and one other annoying "reality" personality to the Moon:

    $100 level: We put your name on the scroll we send with them

    $500 level: You get to suggest who to send (for each $500 you get one vote).

    $10000 level: You get to personally help "verify" the return rockets....

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 1.6E9US$? Easy!

      Add Tony Blair to the list of people who'll get a one way ticket and I'll donate.

  19. defiler

    Will the super-rich really go for this?

    It's a lot of money, and what do you get?

    4 days of in-flight meals and not a lot to do on the way there. After all, there's no room to move because room=payload. Also, I expect entertainment options would be limited - every kWh = payload.

    How long on the moon? Do they get to go outside? Are they expected to do anything whilst they're there (like pick up moonrocks or anything)?

    4 days of in-flight meals on the way back again.

    That's a bit over a week in travelling for what is only likely to be hours on the surface. Yes, I know Cernan and Schmidt stayed on the moon for 3 days or so, but that was a fairly proven system and no comforts. I don't imagine many billionaires will want to do without their comfy beds for 10 days.

    It's a nice idea, but I don't think the people who can afford to do it will want to and vice-versa.

    1. hplasm
      Meh

      Re: Will the super-rich really go for this?

      The only Billionaires who would want to go, are the ones who would probably provide the hardware anyway.

    2. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Go

      Re: Will the super-rich really go for this?

      "It's a lot of money, and what do you get?"

      True.

      Things seriously rich people do include.

      Booking 2 weeks in ice hotels at the North Pole.

      Climbing Everest

      Taking a trip in a Bathysphere, which at least one of the Directors has done.

      Flying to the edge of space in Russian fighter planes.

      Staying at the ISS (that takes 18 months prep in Russia for starters)

      So yes it is possible they have a market out there. Can this company execute their plan?

  20. This post has been deleted by its author

  21. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge
    Joke

    Fully automated?

    Is the on board system called HAL 9000 by any chance?

    "I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that"

    1. GumboKing
      FAIL

      Re: Fully automated?

      "USS Lunar Yacht to Ground Control, should I be worried about the red light that says Communication Link Failure next to it? Hello... Hello... Ground Control are you there?"

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Fully automated?

      "I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that"

      I just had a thought , is George Osbourne actually HAL 9000? and PM Cameron says "Make the economy better" to which he replies ...........

  22. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Meh

    3 ways a business can fail.

    Market fail. No one wants what your selling. Difficult when running say a water supply utility, not so difficult for trips to the Moon.

    Technology fail. It's simply impossible to go to the Moon. Just accept that my opinion of this is that it's BS. I think their architecture is viable provided all the bought in sections are standard straight off the line hardware.

    Company fail. Tech can work but this company cannot get it's act together.

    NASA's recent (as in the last 30 years) history of implementing major human spaceflight launch systems has not been one of 100% success. The last group of ex NASA types who got into a private company en-masse was Kistler.

    The VC's who put $900m into that company will probably not be going anywhere near this lot.

    The fact tech startups have 3 failure modes may explain why Warren Buffet tends to stay away from them.

    I wish them every success. I hope they do achieve it but just keep in mind NASA's cost analysis of Spacex against how much Spacex really spent. There's a reason those figures were a minimum of 4x out.

  23. Mike Flugennock
    Meh

    Oh, Christ, not AGAIN...

    Phil Plait's been pimping the hell out of this scheme over at Bad Astronomy -- though, to his credit, he was quite forthcoming about his friendship with one of the guys who runs the thing.

    That said... oh, Christ, not AGAIN...!

    Honestly, sometimes I think that if I had a buck for every one of these sending-rich-private-citizens-to-the-Moon schemes, I could... well, I could afford to go to the Moon.

    "...we’re about American industry and American entrepreneurial spirit leading the rest of the world..."

    D'ahh, Christ on a pogo stick. This bullshit again? When are the clowns who write those press releases going to get some original ideas... or at least make up some new phrases? "Entrepreneurial spirit" is becoming one of my least favorite phrases in the English language.

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Boooorrrriiinnnggg

    The moon's a rock with low gravity that can't support life.

    Musk's aim is Mars for $500k. Mars has the resources to support life (with a bit of technological help). A bit more interesting.

    I'd rather just go to space, look at the Earth and say "Nice!", float around a bit , come back and wait for the Marsflower.

    1. Mike Flugennock

      Re: Boooorrrriiinnnggg

      You really think it's boring?

      Well, check out some of the photography from the Apollo expeditions, especially the last three, which visited the foothills of the Apennine mountain range, and Hadley Rille, a canyon wider and deeper than anything on Earth. Go there yourself and check out those panoramic scenes and then, when you have a moment, look up into the sky and check out the Earth. Then, get back to me on whether or not it's boring.

  25. Doable
    Holmes

    To the moon?

    In the 1970's, nasa specialists, one of the advocates of "One Way Trip to Mars" for decades, informed NASA that he could get to the moon and back for Titanium mining for $2 million per mission. That's with the endorsment of his chief too. Merely, $2 million, with existing Apollo infrastructure. The Joint Chiefs were so pleased that they described to him a nice wall he should stand in front of, the kind used for those who commit treason, if he moved forward. Opportunity lost.

    One might ask, why just $2 million? Because the inflated price it took not only for government procurement, at its horrible inefficiency, but also to maintain control of the technology precisely because private enterprise could do it more efficiently, and the US was in a cold war in which cheaper technology could not afford to be copied. There really are strategic secrets out there! Keeping it under government control would ensure that soviets would go head to head with the US in copying the technology as implemented, at horrible expense and sacrifice, since many of their best rocket scientists also blew up a few years before,though they weren't as bad off as the Chinese. In a sense, despite the superior theoretical foundations of the soviet scientists, and many simple, practical innovations, having their technologists copy American technology component for component was deadly poison, akin to thinking and working with a hammer hitting your head. Now, with that desire to copy blindly gone, until these private efforts are fully realized and successful, I'm sure the waiting list is great to use Russian and Chinese launchers. :) Or, you can ask the scientist, well, before he passes on, or other American innovators, who have risk-taking as their only saving grace, not their dumbed down public education. Today, all things being the same, 1970's $2 million per mission would be in today's dollars, and still, potentially profitable because eventually, we'll run out of Titanium Dioxide for the bleach white effect in the frosting of cinnamon rolls, and other important activities. Time to munch a snack. C

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