Brace yourselves, a shitstorm is coming...
The UN's International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) has admitted to suffering a data breach that leaked the email addresses of more than 150 people allegedly involved with Israel's nuclear weapons program. A hitherto-unknown hacker group calling itself Parastoo claimed responsibility for the breach in a statement released to …
Wednesday 28th November 2012 23:28 GMT Destroy All Monsters
"to help ensure that no further information is vulnerable"
Except the one about the location of Iranian engineers that are routinely interviewed under the umbrella of IAEA control activities and that can then be bampfed off by mysterious gunmen on motorcyles that have nothing at all to do with Israel.
Thursday 29th November 2012 00:02 GMT Thorne
Thursday 29th November 2012 05:36 GMT Thorne
Seriously, who trusts Iran with nukes? Their stated aim is the complete destruction of Israel. I don't think their into peace, love and group hugs. Their loony enough to think that God is on their side when they nuke Israel and he'll stop Israel from nuking them back ten times over
At best, Iran with nukes would be another North Korea. At worst, a glow in the dark glass sculpture
Thursday 29th November 2012 10:27 GMT James Micallef
Actually their spiritual supreme Grand leader (or whatever the title is) has decreed that usage of nuclear weapons is immoral. It's only a minority of fanatics headed by President Ahmad-whatever-his-name-is who genuinely want the destruction of Israel. There's a huge amount of Iranians who are happy to live and let live (witness the brutally-suppressed 'Green Revolution')
Having said that, more countries getting nuclear weapons is not a good idea... which is a delcate balancing act because I DO believe that civilian nuclear power is desperately required for humanity's long-term energy requirements.
Thursday 29th November 2012 15:42 GMT Anonymous Coward
Thursday 29th November 2012 23:09 GMT Thorne
Ah yes but Israel already has nukes and I don't think they'll hand them over just because you said please.
Personally anyone stupid enough to think God will save them when they do something stupid shouldn't be trusted with nukes.
Religion and Government should be kept as far apart as possible.
Saturday 1st December 2012 20:43 GMT Matt Bryant
Re: Re: Faggots
".....the state of Palestine....." Oh Tom, you know there is no such place as the state of Palestine, even after the recent UN vote. Until the Fakeistinians sit down and negotiate with Israel there will be no state of Palestine. Of course, who gets to sit down and negotiate is another matter - Abbas who has over-run his mandate and has no legitimate claim to be President, or Hamas, the elected representatives of the Fakeistinians, the group who just refuse to accept the two state solution? Maybe Israel should start insisting on a few pre-reqs to talks, like the Fakeistinians sorting out their own issues first. That would delay talks for at least another twenty-odd years, plenty of time to build the rest of Maaleh Adumim and the Barrier. In the meantime, I'm pretty sure the Israeli scientists will be feeling pretty safe, it's not like the skiddies have access to drones tech and guided missiles.
Thursday 29th November 2012 10:05 GMT Anonymous Coward
Charming, Thorne. I am sure you don't have any vested interest in either side of the dispute.
Consider, though, that Iran is not the only country in the world to be overloaded with crazy, homicidal, religious nutcases (er, fundamentalists). If, indeed, Iran is.
When I googled "israel rabbi gentiles" the very first hit that came up, right at the top of the results page, was this:
'The sole purpose of non-Jews is to serve Jews, according to Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, the head of Shas’s Council of Torah Sages and a senior Sephardi adjudicator.
'“Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel,” he said in his weekly Saturday night sermon on the laws regarding the actions non-Jews are permitted to perform on Shabbat.
'According to Yosef, the lives of non-Jews in Israel are safeguarded by divinity, to prevent losses to Jews.
'“In Israel, death has no dominion over them... With gentiles, it will be like any person – they need to die, but [God] will give them longevity. Why? Imagine that one’s donkey would die, they’d lose their money.'
Thursday 29th November 2012 14:18 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Faggots @ Tom Welsh
All religeons in all countries have extemists to one extent or another. The difference here is that the extremists are in control in Iran (even if two factions are against each other), where as in Israel they are so far in the minority they can't even get the benefit of proportional representation (the blight which has allowed the settler/ultra-orthodox(*) block to keep Netanyahu in power rather than the moderates who got the larger percentage of the vote).
*) Note the ultra-orthodox are not so much interested in abusing others or wiping out other nations, but more about trying to get more religeon based law passsed in Israel - fortunately they're not strong enough for this.
Thursday 29th November 2012 02:03 GMT NozeDive
Thursday 29th November 2012 04:10 GMT ninjamario
"Both facts suggest Iranian involvement with the hack, although Iran is not specifically mentioned in the group's statement."
I smell pure speculation.
Even if the name references the Farsi word, that wouldn't suggest government involvement. Indeed, government involvement is usually fairly obvious by the complexity of the attack (compare http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flame_(malware) ) and governments normally collate and make use of collected information - rather than posting their results to pastebin, an action far more commonly attributed to script kiddies and hacktivists.
Thursday 29th November 2012 04:34 GMT Anonymous Coward
The purpose behind Israel's nuclear ambiguity...
From : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symington_Amendment
"The Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 was amended by the Symington Amendment (Section 669 of the FAA) in 1976. It banned U.S. economic, and military assistance, and export credits to countries that deliver or receive, acquire or transfer nuclear enrichment technology when they do not comply with IAEA regulations and inspections. This provision, as amended, is now contained in Section 101 of the Arms Export Control Act (AECA).
The Glenn Amendment (Section 670) was later adopted in 1977, and provided the same sanctions against countries that acquire or transfer nuclear reprocessing technology or explode or transfer a nuclear device. This provision, as amended, is now contained in Section 102 of the Arms Export Control Act (AECA)."
Israel posses nuclear weapons/technology. Israel is NOT a signatory to the NPT. Israel has never allowed inspections by the IAEA. Therefore, under US law (The Symington Amendment), it is illegal to send aid to Israel. Hence the ambiguity... so they can use it as a "deterrence" and have their aid (even though it is one of the richest countries in the world)
Thursday 29th November 2012 10:33 GMT James Micallef
Re: The purpose behind Israel's nuclear ambiguity...
AC is right, it's just a fig-leaf for Israel. World + Dog knows that Israel has nukes.
I bet most USAians don't have the fainest clue about how much money they're giving as aid to Israel, and would be shocked to know what it's being used for *cough* settlement expansion *cough*
Thursday 29th November 2012 12:18 GMT Elmer Phud
Thursday 29th November 2012 13:54 GMT Anonymous Coward
Thursday 29th November 2012 14:23 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: The purpose behind Israel's nuclear ambiguity...
Can't be anti-semitic as Arabs and Aryans are also Semites ;)
On a more seriousnote though, normally on articles like this you seem these days to get a very large number of anti-Jew posts here from people who either can't differentiate between a country''s political stand and the people in said country. Fortunately this one seems clear of them so far resulting in some interesting view points above (though a little one sided).
Thursday 29th November 2012 14:38 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: The purpose behind Israel's nuclear ambiguity... @ Original AC
The Foreign Assistance Act must have been altered again more recently as Pakistan are also non-signees of the NPT and refuse access (as also is India).
BTW the deterrence aspect has worked for them in the past. There's a number of books out there that detail events around the 1973 Yom Kippur War and the fact that at one stage Israel thought all as lost and held 'that' cabinet meeting over a final no-winners solution. It was leaked to the US resulting in supplies due for Vietnam being diverted straight to Israeli docks and shortly there after in to ballte (this included US spec F4 Pantom IIs fighter/omber planes, A4 Skyhawk bomber planes, M48 tanks, 5.56 and 7.62 ammunition, plus tank and artillery rounds). Additionally one of the conspiracy theories around why Syria stopped their attack is that they had learnt that Israel was targetting their major cities with nukes.
Thursday 29th November 2012 19:10 GMT Local G
Saturday 1st December 2012 20:59 GMT Matt Bryant
Monday 3rd December 2012 04:07 GMT Local G
Re: "The statement, written in wobbly English and typed in all caps,"
I'm certain both are Mossad agents, so they are related. (In the same way you may be related to both.) Rage Boy has the same false whiskers worn by the Mossad when they assassinated that guy in Dubai. We know nothing about BIG DUMB GUY (not even the sex). But we've seen the wobbly English and all caps here and now we see it in Iran.
Mossad is dedicating a kosher Ladies and Gents in Jonathan Pollard Park (to mention another one of Israel's naval outrages) in Jerusalem in March. If you can get over there on some ADL business, you'll see BDG and RB there as the dedicatees.
I never have rage myself, except when someone cuts me off on the freeway and I am forced to teach him a lesson. And, of course, when someone ridicules the testimony of the survivors of a brutal ambush at sea, albeit, unthinking and unintentional.
I have the best theory of the events that day. More damning of the US than Israel, but still damning of both.
Monday 3rd December 2012 10:01 GMT Matt Bryant
Re: Re: "The statement, written in wobbly English and typed in all caps,"
"I'm certain both are Mossad agents....." So, you have no evidence of that, but you are convinced it is true? Belief without evidence is called faith, and being reflexively anti-The-Man and anti-Israel does seem to be more than a bit of a religion with you.
".....Mossad is dedicating a kosher Ladies and Gents in Jonathan Pollard Park....." You'll whine on about Pollard but at worst he sold USN secrets to Israel, he didn't kill any Americans or even want to kill anyone. And that's the big difference. Unfortunately, when the Fakeistinians target Americans they not only do it deliberately but as often as they can, regardless of how they are supposedly "looking for a peaceful solution". Ignoring the attacks abroad, ignoring how Fakeistinian jihadis turned up in Iraq with full PLO support, but just looking at Israel, Gaza and the West Bank, Fatah and Hamas are DIRECTLY responsible for killing at least twelve American citizens since the signing of the Oslo Peace Accords in 1993, a treaty that was supposed to see the Fakeistinians swearing off terrorism as a key part of the agreement. Below are the incidents I can find but it wasn't a particularly thorough search, there are probably many more:
Apr 9, 1995 - Seven Israelis and one American were killed when a bus was hit by an explosives-laden van near Kfar Darom in the Gaza Strip. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack.
Aug 21, 1995 - Three Israelis and one American were killed in a suicide bombing of a Jerusalem bus, suspected to be an Al-Aqsa Brigade (Fatah military wing) attack.
July 31, 2002 - Hebrew University massacre, Hebrew University, Jerusalem - nine killed, included four American and one dual-nationality American-French, all visitors. Bomber was from East Jerusalem, Hamas claimed responsibility.
Oct 15, 2003 - Three Americans were killed and one wounded at the Beit Hanoun junction in the Gaza Strip when a massive bomb demolished an armor-plated jeep in a convoy carrying U.S. diplomats. Ironically, the diplomats were there to help establish the PNA police and other peaceful economic structures.
So forgetting for a moment the massive number of Israelis killed by Fakeistinian terror since the Oslo Accord, and restricting it to just areas where the Fakeistinians had complete control of and responsibility for any terror groups, and AFTER they were supposed to have given up terror, the Fakesistinians have killed at least twelve Americans. I'm sure the families of those twelve Americans would be quite happy to go to an event at Johnathan Pollard Park.
"......I have the best theory of the events that day...." No, you just have rambling, anti-semite-fueled conspiracy theories.
Tuesday 4th December 2012 02:47 GMT Local G
Re: Grumpy Grumpy
"I'm certain both (BIG DUMB GUY and Rage Boy) are Mossad agents"(LG)....." So, you have no evidence of that" (MB) Here's the evidence: The Joe Miller Joke Book.(LG)
Here's one joke that still brings a smile to your face and a chuckle to your heart:
"Folke Bernadotte, Count of Wisborg (in Swedish: Greve af Wisborg; 2 January 1895 – 17 September 1948) was a Swedish diplomat and nobleman noted for his negotiation of the release of about 31,000 prisoners from German concentration camps during World War II, including 450 Danish Jews from Theresienstadt released on 14 April 1945. In 1945, he received a German surrender offer from Heinrich Himmler, though the offer was ultimately rejected."
"After the war, Bernadotte was unanimously chosen to be the United Nations Security Council mediator in the Arab–Israeli conflict of 1947–1948. He was assassinated in Jerusalem in 1948 by the militant Zionist group Lehi while pursuing his official duties. The decision to assassinate him had been taken by Natan Yellin-Mor, Yisrael Eldad and Yitzhak Shamir, who was later to become Prime Minister of Israel"
He probably would have liked to see his wife one more time before he died, but f*ck him. He was working for peace between the Arabs and the Jews. It didn't fly then; and it won't fly now.
He too would have been quite happy to see the plot of land in Jerusalem where the State of Israel would one day honor their spy, Pollard.
I don't know what I was thinking when I mentioned my theory. It puts Israel in the best possible light and President Johnson in the worst. I'm happy you didn't want to hear it.
You probably have had the cilice on a lot since the vote in the UN last week. And you deserve it. It was all your fault. Your comments aren't as vitriolic as they used to be.
Tuesday 4th December 2012 13:00 GMT Matt Bryant
Re: Re: Grumpy Grumpy
".....Folke Bernadotte, Count of Wisborg...." LOL! Local Dupe, after all your rants against the establishment and The Man, don't tell me your going to make crocodile tears over the nephew of King Gustav of Swden! Or is it just because he serves your cause that you're quick to mention him? Beyond hypocriticial! You also seem not to know that on the day Bernadotte was assassinated, September 17th 1948, his convoy had been attacked by an Arab sniper at Ramallah. If the Arab had been a better shot then Bernadotte would have died by Arab hands and you'd no doubt not be mentioning him at all. Dwelling in the past isn't much fun when you run up against someone that knows more history than you, is it?
".....He probably would have liked to see his wife one more time before he died...." I'm sure the twelve Americans I listed as victims of Fakeistinian terror attacks in Palestine since the Oslo Accords would have liked to have seen their families again.
"....He was working for peace between the Arabs and the Jews....." Bernadotte's recommendations were rejected both times by the Arabs who preferred the idea of slaughtering all the Jews and stealing their lands. The ironic part of the story is that Ben Gurion had decided to accpet Bernadotte's second proposal only the news had not filtered through to the Lehi. Ben Gurion's acceptance of the UN plan led to the state of Israel whereas the Arabs rejected it and that led to sixty-four years of Fakeistinian hardship.
"....You probably have had the cilice on a lot since the vote in the UN last week....." A hair shirt? No thanks, you're the one with religion. Me, I've been laughing at the hype and froth. The UN popularity vote was a bygone conclusion. But, it is in breach of the Oslo Accords that states a Palestinian Arab state can only come into existance by negotiation with Israel. So that means Israel is also no longer bound by the Oslo Accord in any way. If Israel really wants to play hardball, they can ration the supply of electricity to the West Bank, re-route the majority of their water, and re-occupy Jericho - all covered by the Oslo Accord. Then Bibi just has to wait for the inevitable rioting that follows and declare the whole West Bank a "military zone" again, as he said he would back in 1997. Abbas will fold because he knows Israel is less of a threat than what happens if Hamas gains control of riots in the West Bank. Face it, threatening to build in the E1 area is just Bibi giving Abbas a wake-up call, he could do a lot worse. And if he does then the UN General Assembly can shriek and rage all they want - without the UN SC agreeing there would be no action, and it is unlikely the US will allow anything other than empty condemnations. The US will insist on negotiations, Bibi will happily go along knowing that Abbas cannot deliver and then Abbas will walk out, same as he always does, and we're back to square one, only it's square one 1993 style. The Arab states will turn the volume up to ten but do nothing because they're actually more worried about Iran's meddling and need the US around to keep them safe. Oh dear, did I just pop your balloon again?
Tuesday 4th December 2012 20:59 GMT Local G
Re:You may be the Serpent's Tooth of elReg, Matt Bryant...
But you're not even as sharp as Susan Boyle was when she aimed for the high C in "I Dreamed a Dream" (sorry, I know how much you detest music that isn't Sex Pistol or Ramones). It was on something called Britain's Got Talent, which no one could guess from reading your comments.
Do you really have a Lego model of Auschwitz on your dresser between posters of Sid Vicious and Freddy Mercury? And a doll of Folke Bernadotte suspended from the ceiling which you toss darts at after wanking and just before lights out?
Wednesday 5th December 2012 20:16 GMT Matt Bryant
Re: Re:You may be the Serpent's Tooth of elReg, Matt Bryant...
Is it SCHWING time again? You really must work on that concetration span.
"....sorry, I know how much you detest music that isn't Sex Pistol or Ramones...." Well, I can listen to Suebo without too much of a problem, but I don't think I'd buy her records. I also wouldn't buy the Sex Pistols - each to their own but I never saw the supposed talent there - and the Ramones? Well, OK, I might have bought the "Needles and Pins" single, I suspect "I Don't Wanna Grow Up" might be your anthem, but I can't remember much else about the band. I do remember there was some froth about Nazi lyrics which I thought was just some clever record manager stirring up some hype.
BTW, can I suggest you might be the New World hippy type that would listen agog to David Bowie? Maybe a little Clapton when you were feeling really artisticly right-on? I bet you didn't know Rock Against Racism was formed exactly because of public statements supporting fascism and racism made by those two gents (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Against_Racism). Of course, nowadays when Bowie is waffling on about World peace/hunger/fad-of-the-day, and Clapton is being feted as a "musical inspiration", no-one mentions their previous political statements. Who remembers the Kartoon Klowns?
"....Do you really have a Lego model of Auschwitz on your dresser...." Nope, but a few weeks back I did help a son of a friend build his Lego Hogwarts. I'm sure you'll find some hilariously contrived conspiracy out of that - "he's a Neocon Whiccan!"
"....and Freddy Mercury...." Why, has liking Queen's hits become a crime amongst the Righteously Trendy now? I was also partial to a bit of Van Halen, just not the seatless trousers! Make of that what you will.
".....And a doll of Folke Bernadotte...." Sorry, no dolls, not even an Action Man. Are dolls, of the blow-up variety or otherwise, to be found in your place of abode?
".....Just curious." Don't say that around your Fakeistinian buddies, they might take that the wrong way! http://www.petertatchell.net/religion/islamic.htm
Unfortunately, in the wonderland of Socialism it isn't just the "impressionable youths" of "Palestine" that had a problem with gays either:
Thursday 6th December 2012 02:24 GMT Local G
Unlike yourself, Matt Bryant, I can admit when I'm wrong.
Yes, my last few posts were uncalled for. But your contemptuous replies pushed all my buttons (your MO).
What does the death of 12 or more Americans, Israelis or Venutians since 1993 have to do with the swinish Zionist assassination of Bernadotte in 1948? Does your Arrow of Time swing both ways?
" his (Bernadotte's) convoy had been attacked by an Arab sniper at Ramallah. (Whereas the Jews got a tommy gun in the open window of Bernadotte's car and blasted him point-blank.) I want to see your citation on it. Can't be from the Weekly Standard.
The survivors of the USS Liberty. Did you debunk them or did some one else? Send me the citation if it was someone else or your original debunkery.
"During the morning of the attack, early June 8, the ship was overflown by Israeli Air Force (IAF) aircraft including a Nord Noratlas "flying boxcar" and Mirage III jet fighters eight times. At least some of those flybys were from a close range. Many Liberty crewmen gave testimony that one of the aircraft flew so close to Liberty that its propellers rattled the deck plating of the ship, and the pilots waved to the crew of Liberty, and the crewmen waved back. The aircraft were hunting for Egyptian submarines, which had been spotted near the coast. At about 5:45 a.m. Sinai time (GMT +2), reports were first received at Israeli Central Coastal Command (CCC) about the Liberty, identified by pilots as a destroyer and the vessel was placed on the plot board using a red marker, indicating an unknown vessel."
" Admiral Tom Moorer stated that the Liberty was the most identifiable ship in the U.S. Navy and in an interview with the Washington Post stated: To suggest that they [the IDF] couldn't identify the ship is ... ridiculous. Anybody who could not identify the Liberty could not tell the difference between the White House and the Washington Monument."
No cannons, only .50 caliber machine guns, but the Jews called it a destroyer. The American flag, if not streaming, certainly fluttering in the breeze.
And now to tie these two atrocities together, M B, who do you think was the Israeli Chief of Staff was that day in 1967? If you said Yitzhak Rabin, you right as you always are. And you probably recall that on November 4, 1995, in Kings of Israel Square, Yigal Amir fired three shots at Rabin with a semi-automatic pistol. (a Walther? find out) Two shots hit Rabin. Dead in 40 minutes if you believe Wikipedia.
"Vengence is mine, saith the Lord,I shall repay."
Which was Tolstoy's epigraph for Anna Karinina. Have you seen it yet? Let me know if it's good. I hate crying in public.
Thursday 6th December 2012 17:14 GMT Matt Bryant
Re: Unlike yourself, Matt Bryant, I can admit when I'm wrong.
".....What does the death of 12 or more Americans, Israelis or Venutians since 1993 have to do with the swinish Zionist assassination of Bernadotte in 1948?...." Hey, you were the one insisting Bernadotte's death was so awful, and yet that was before any peace treaties were signed. The twelve examples I gave were after the Fakeistinians promised they would give up terror.
".... At 9:30 a.m. on Friday, September 17, he boarded his UN Dakota plane for the 45 minute flight to Jerusalem. After arriving in Palestine, Bernadotte’s day started with a shot hitting an armored car in his convoy while he was visiting Ramallah...." http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/folke.html. Amusingly, the same text is lifted word for word at the rabidly anti-Semitic antisgood.worldpress.com, where being anti obviously doesn't extend to plagurism. I'm sure you'll be familiar with that site as it has a spookily similar vein of ranting conspiracy and hatred of Jews.
"....USS Liberty....." SCHWING, SCHWING, circle, SCHWING! You're just getting boring now.
Friday 7th December 2012 02:51 GMT Local G
JUNE 8, 1967 A DAY THAT WILL LIVE IN INFAMY.
The day the fiendish Israelis, in unmarked airplanes, tried to sink the USS Liberty and blame it on the Egyptians.
"Amusingly, the same text is lifted word for word at the rabidly anti-Semitic antisgood.worldpress.com, where being anti obviously doesn't extend to plagurism."
I'm glad something else amuses you besides the slaughter by Jews of American sailors, Swedish Noblemen peacemakers and English Lords and High Commissioners.
I hope that soon you will provide me with the citation of the Arab taking a shot at Bernadotte in Ramallah. Oh, and remind me to look up the word, SCHWING. I don't know whether to be flattered? ;o)
Friday 7th December 2012 13:00 GMT Matt Bryant
Re: JUNE 8, 1967 A DAY THAT WILL LIVE IN INFAMY.
"....tried to sink the USS Liberty and blame it on the Egyptians...." Actually, they were trying to sink an Egyptian destroyer, one of a pair that had been shelling the Sinai's northern coastline during the preceding day. The Israelis were worried the Egyptians would try a landing of forces behind the Israeli frontline and had asked the Americans the day before to confirm that all the USN ships were not in the area and to inform the Israelis if any US ships did enter the area. U.S. Ambassador Arthur Goldberg said that the USN 6th Fleet were several hundred miles from the conflict, and the Liberty was part of the 6th Fleet. Indeed, the Liberty was ordered not to approach closer than 100nm to the Sinai coast and this order was reported to the Israelis, so they had no reason to suspect the Liberty crew would be so far out of position. The Liberty was out of position and in a warzone - shit happens in war.
"....I'm glad something else amuses you besides the slaughter by Jews of American sailors, Swedish Noblemen peacemakers and English Lords and High Commissioners...." Really? How much do you laugh about the 1983 bombings of the Marines barracks in Beiruit then? 240 US peacekeeping servicemen killed not by accident but by a deliberate suicide bombing attack, perpetrated by Hezbollah and Iran and applauded by the same Fakeistinians you support. Don't worry, it looks like the Eeeevul Jooooos took care of ring-leader Imad Mughniyah in 2008, when he was hiding out in Damascus with Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal.
"....I hope that soon you will provide me with the citation of the Arab taking a shot at Bernadotte....." Pay attention, I already did. You're obviously too busy trying to drag the thread off subject as you've lost so badly there.
Friday 7th December 2012 21:29 GMT Local G
Re: JUNE 8, 1967 A DAY THAT WILL LIVE IN INFAMY.
"What had preceded this urgent direction to get the Liberty away from the Egyptian coast,
then controlled by Israel, was a message from the U.S. Defense Attaché Office (USDAO) in Tel
Aviv, telling U.S. authorities that Israel was planning to attack the Liberty if she was not moved.
The report had come from a Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) observer at the USDAO, who
advised that Israeli leaders had decided to sink the Liberty if it came near the war zone."
Former Representative Robert L. F Sikes of Florida (who had been with the intelligence working
group of the Defense subcommittee of the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Appropriations) and other committee sources confirm that the frantic efforts by the JCS (and NSA)
to move the Liberty on the evening of June 7, 1967, were prompted by a report from the USDAO
in Tel Aviv that the Israeli Defense Forces planned to attack the ship if she continued to operate
where she was. Their knowledge came directly from testimony on the subject of the Liberty made
to the committee by a representative of the CIA."
Don't feel bad, Matt, the real fiend was Lyndon Johnson. Israel had known of the presence of the USS Liberty for days and had warned the Pentagon what they would do if it didn't withdraw. The US decision went all the way to the CiC. He didn't believe the Israelis would carry out their threat and with the 293 men on board the ship. He was wrong. The Israelis were as good as their word. And today those promoting "Israel mistook the ship," are only covering up the stupidity of Lyndon Baines Johnson.
"On September 16, Bernadotte flew to Beirut and spent the day there. At 9:30 a.m. on Friday, September 17, he boarded his UN Dakota plane for the 45 minute flight to Jerusalem. After arriving in Palestine, Bernadotte’s day started with a shot hitting an armored car in his convoy while he was visiting Ramallah. No one was hurt and, according to army liaison officer Moshe Hillman, Bernadotte was proud of the bullet hole and showed Hillman the UN flag that had saved him."
The flag was made of mithril.
This isn't a citation, Matt, it's a bubbeh maissie. From The Jewish Virtual LIE brary.
Here's how they describe themselves:
"JEWISH VIRTUAL LIBRARY"
The Jewish Virtual Library is the most comprehensive online Jewish encyclopedia in the world, covering everything from anti-Semitism to Zionism. There are more than 16,000 articles and 7,000 photographs and maps that have been integrated into the site.
[everything from anti-Semitism to Zionism... "that is all ye know on earth, and all ye need to know."]
The Library has 13 wings: History, Women, The Holocaust, Travel, Israel & The States, Maps, Politics, Biography, Israel, Religion, Judaic Treasures of the Library of Congress, Vital Statistics and Reference. Each of these has numerous subcategories.
Under Religion, for example, we have the complete text of the Tanakh, information on Jewish holidays, and material on relations between Jews and Christians and Muslims. The Politics wing includes collections on U.S.-Israel relations, the United Nations and the peace process. The Reference section has bibliographies of more than 1,000 books and 1,000 web sites, and a glossary of more than 1,000 words and a time-line for the history of Judaism.
The Library also includes the Virtual Israel Experience, an educational tool and virtual tour of Israel designed especially for students going on Birthright and other trips to Israel. The VIE highlights Israel's ancient history accentuated against its timeless beauty and modern culture.
The Jewish History World Tours allow users to virtually visit Jewish communities across the world to learn about their history and culture. The goal is to educate visitors about Jewish heritage, the development of Judaism, the changing nature of Jewish communities and the connection between the Jewish past and present.
"Much of the information in the Library cannot be found anywhere else in the world"
BECAUSE THEY'RE STILL MAKING IT UP."
Did you really use them as a source? Sic transit gloria Matt.
Well, Boychik, I enjoyed beating you in the Second Battle of the Liberty. You are a worthy opponent. Let me know when you want do battle again. :o)
Saturday 8th December 2012 12:44 GMT Matt Bryant
Re: JUNE 8, 1967 A DAY THAT WILL LIVE IN INFAMY.
".....urgent direction to get the Liberty away from the Egyptian coast, then controlled by Israel, was a message from the U.S. Defense Attaché Office (USDAO) in Tel Aviv....." Outright lie. This was during the Six Days War, Egypt was in control of the coast and Israel was pushing the PLO and Egyptian forces out of Gaza. The Israelis also did not ever issue a specific threat against ANY ship, they simply stated that they could not guarantee the safety of any shipping operating in the area. That was a general announcement to ALL shipping to warn it to stay out of the war zone, as made by the Brits during the Falklands War, and the US during their invasions of Grenada and Iraq.
"....The report had come from a Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) observer...." If you want to pretend it is true then please supply the following:
1. Name of the alleged CIA source plus his a link to his report (oh, and why you're suddenly so happy to quote the CIA you have accused of lying when it has suited you before!)?
2. Supply a reason why the Liberty was sailing TOWARDS the coast if the CIA had told the USN to tell them to sail the opposite direction?
3. Tell us why the USN told the Israelis ALL ships of the 6th Fleet was hundreds of miles away if they knew the Liberty wasn't?
I won't ask you to supply a reason as to why you're still ranting about this ridiculous avoidance of the thread subject as it is very obvious you know you have already lost that argument.
".....BECAUSE THEY'RE STILL MAKING IT UP......" Really? So anything from a "filthy, eeeeevul Jooooooo" is made up? Seems like your anti-Semitic buddies at antiisgood had no problems stealing the info.
And I bet you don't want to read the following from the UN reports on the events in 1948 (http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/AB14D4AAFC4E1BB985256204004F55FA):
".....1. General Assembly resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947 provided for the partition of Palestine into a Jewish State, an Arab State and an international territory of the City of Jerusalem, within the framework of an economic union embracing all three. This plan was accepted by the representatives of the Jewish Agency but rejected by the Arab States and the spokesman of the Arab Higher Committee, who declared that they did not consider themselves bound by the resolution. On 14 May 1948, the Jews declared the existence of a State of Israel, and when on the following day the Mandate officially ended, the newly-proclaimed Provisional Government of Israel was in control of the most important parts of the area allotted to the Jewish State by the Assembly resolution. The Provisional Government of Israel claimed that it was acting according to that resolution as far as circumstances permitted, and that it made no claim to territory beyond the boundaries of the partition resolution. When the armies of the Arab States entered Palestine on 15 May, and became involved in conflict with the Jewish forces, the Provisional Government of Israel appealed to the Security Council against the attack of the Arab States and invoked the resolution of 29 November.
2. The Arab States, on the other hand, claiming that the resolution of the Assembly was illegal and unjust, contended that they had come legitimately to the assistance of the Arabs of Palestine. Their opposition to the resolution of 29 November has continued unabated....."
Meanwhile, whilst you're busy SCHWINGing away, Assad and his cronies, bestest buds with the Hamas and Fatah terrorists you eulogies, has killed 40,000 of his own people, and is preparing to use his chemical weapons (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20650582). What the BBC fails to mention is there is a real danger that Assad will try a Saddam and fire his missiles at Israel in an attempt to drag Israel into the fighting, turning Assad from murderous dictator into "Arab hero" in the eyes of anti-Semitic numpties like you. But why would that worry you? You're already happy with Hamas firing rockets randomly at Jewish school kids, why would it bother you if it was chemical-tipped missiles instead?
Wednesday 12th December 2012 19:01 GMT Local G
Dude Face, your arguments are getting tired.
"A Juridical Examination of the Israeli Attack on the USS Liberty
NAVAL LAW REVIEW VOL. 36 WINTER 1986
Lieutenant Commander Walter L. Jacobsen, JA GC, USN
* Lieutenant Commander Walter L. Jacobsen is presently serving as Staff Judge
Advocate for Commander, Iceland Defense Force. He received his B.A. degree from
Northwestern University in 1972, his J.D. degree from Suffolk University in 1975, and
his LL.M. degree from the National Law Center at George Washington University in
1985. This article is based on a thesis submitted as part of the author's LL.M. degree
work at George Washington University.
**The views expressed in this article are those of the author and do not reflect the official policy or position of the United States Government, the Department of Defense, the Department of the Navy, or the Naval Justice School.
Following the Israeli attack on the U.S.S. Liberty, there were conflicting accounts of the event. Many questions remain unanswered. In this article, LCDR Jacobsen provides an analysis of the attack in light of existing international precepts as they relate to intelligence gathering, freedom of the seas, aggression, and self-defense. Following this analysis, the author concludes that the attack was not supportable in international law and recommends a thorough, public investigation into the attack by the United States Congress.
"On June 8, 1967, Israeli jets and torpedo boats attacked the U.S.S. Liberty in the
eastern Mediterranean, killing thirty-four Americans and wounding 171 more. The
attack took place during the Six-Day War, so called because of the spectacular
success that Israel had in defeating the forces of Egypt, Jordan, and Syria during
that regional conflict. This is the first legal study of that attack.The accepted explanation for the attack has been that it was a tragic mistake...."
Read the article, MB. Any complaints take up with the author.
Don't forget: Jacobsen = antisemite. Jacobson = self-loathing Joo.
<<"1. Name of the alleged CIA source plus his a link to his report.">> Only a pothead would ask for something this stupid. Read the link and ask Lieutenant Commander Jacobsen for CIA names and addresses.
<<"oh, and why you're suddenly so happy to quote the CIA you have accused of lying when it has suited you before!">> Because, unlike you, I use my brain and think. When MB denies the conclusions of an investigative agency once, he denies that agency forever, in every case with no exceptions. For MB the inverse is true -- for Israel -- he accepts the actions of Israel as being good, then everything Israel does after that is beyond criticism.
" Assad and his cronies, bestest buds with the Hamas and Fatah terrorists you eulogies, has killed 40,000 of his own people." How did you get from the USS Liberty in 1967 to Assad killing 40,000 (and the Syrian rebels killing zero since 2010)? The rebels are responsible for most of the deaths as they hid in the cities, among the population. According to you, the minute the rebels declared themselves, Assad should have stepped down. I suppose George III should have also. That's not the way it works in the real world.
"the Hamas and Fatah terrorists you eulogies" Where do you come up with this bolongna? Today wearing a uniform doesn't mean you're not a terrorist, and not wearing and not wearing a uniform doesn't mean you're not a soldier.
The only outright lies in 1967 were told by the Israeli pilots, flying in unmarked planes, who said the Liberty wasn't flying the American flag. My definition of treachery.
Saturday 8th December 2012 14:39 GMT Matt Bryant
Re: Re: JUNE 8, 1967 A DAY THAT WILL LIVE IN INFAMY.
".....BECAUSE THEY'RE STILL MAKING IT UP...." Oh dear, looks like you'll have to accuse the UN itself of lying then, seeing as they also record being fired upon by the Arabs:
".....Before we started, I was told that every other jeep or car was fired upon at Mandelbaum Gate..... After the meeting, I asked Brigadier Lash for a guard to take us to the front lines, and received an armored car which met us on the way to the lines. En route, just past Kollundia, our car was fired on from a short distance...."
Mandlebaum Gate was the ruined remains of a Jewish home that the Jordanians blew up during the May 1948 fighting. It came to mark the boundary between the Jordanian occupied area and the Jewsih Quarter of Jerusalem. The area was used by by Jordanian and Palestinian Arab snipers to shoot into the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem, shooting at any passing vehicles whether they were Jewish or UN.
Tuesday 11th December 2012 21:33 GMT Local G
Re Lies, Damned Lies and Matt Bryant's comments
<<"En route, just past Kollundia, our car was fired on from a short distance (pistol shot)." " every other jeep or car was fired upon at Mandelbaum Gate."
Bryant earlier quote, "His convoy had been attacked by an Arab sniper at Ramallah.."
There was no sniper at Ramallah to relieve your evil joooos of the responsibility of the brutal murder of Count Bernadotte. Your defense of Shamir and Lehi is as twisted as you, for some reason, are.
Wednesday 12th December 2012 12:13 GMT Matt Bryant
Re: Re Lies, Damned Lies and Matt Bryant's comments
"....There was no sniper at Ramallah...." There is some confusion over that, seeing as Moshe Hillman records only the rifle attack at Ramallah and not the pistol attack, the UN recorded the pistol shot as hitting the hubcap of the armoured car whereas the Hillman account categorically states the UN flag (which would have been mast-mounted nowhere near the wheels) was holed by the bullet that also hit the body of the armoured car. So it may be that the Arabs tried TWICE to shoot up the convoy, but that Hillman only regarded the sniper attack as a serious enough danger to report. In effect, we have the usual comedic Arabic martial failures followed by (unfortunately in this case) the usual Israeli martial effectiveness.
"....Your defense of Shamir and Lehi...." It's not a defence of their actions, merely pointing out that at least some of the Arabs were just as intent on assassinating Bernadotte. Why would he request an armoured convoy in Arab areas if he only faced a threat from renegade Jews? Oh, sorry, did I just ask you to think and consider evidence rather than the ranting propaganda you have been spoonfed? I see you still haven't tried to answer the simple fact that the Lehi were unaware that Ben Gurion has decided to accept Bernadotte's second plan, whereas the Arabs had no intention of accepting a solution that included any form of Jewish state.
Monday 3rd December 2012 21:17 GMT AB
@ Matt Bryant
Who or what are these "Fakeistinians" you keep referring to?
I'm finding it hard to take you seriously, partly because you seem to me to carry some fairly extreme bias around with you, but also because you appear to be introducing imaginary people into what is a fairly serious discussion.
If you want people to take your opinions seriously, a good first step is to leave the playground name-calling where it belongs: on the playground and in your childhood.
Monday 3rd December 2012 22:12 GMT Matt Bryant
Re: @ Matt Bryant
"Who or what are these "Fakeistinians" you keep referring to?....." Under Arafat, a deliberate policy of the PLO was to use the term "Palestinian" to only apply to Palestinian Arabs, so as to imply they were the original and only rightful occupiers of all the Mandate territories. The usage was taken up by the PLO's friends in Arab countries and insisted on by them in the UN, despite it having ZERO historic accuracy. This has been so successful that you will find many a clueless Westerner that will assure you that all the Israelis were not from the area and were dumped there by Europe under UN supervision in 1947/48. It is all the more ironic as the Arabs cannot actually pronounce the word Palestine as they have no hard p in their language,instead they have to say "Falastin", the old Arab name for the Philistines. Hence the parody term "Fakeistinian" to show up their lie.
Historically, the term was originally coined as "Provincial Palestina" by the Romansin AD135, a corruption of the term Philistina or, as we call them today, the Philistines. The original Philistines were driven out over many centuries by other groups. The Romans in AD135 were in the process of putting down a Jewish rebellion in the area and wanted to de-Judeaise the name of the region, hence they made up Palestina. By the time the Crusaders and Saladin arrived on the scene the area referred to then as Palestine stretched from the borders of Egypt right up to the majority of Syria and across eastwards to Iraq. Then the Ottoman Turks conquered the area and it was unchanged until the post-WW1 partition between the Brits and the French. The majority of old Palestine became the Mandate Territories of Palestine whist Syria, the Levant (Lebanon) and Iraq got split off. Up to this point there were many people living in the area, despite the Muslim Arabs' attempts to drive them out or subjugate them, including Palestinian Jews, Palestinian Arabs, and Christian Arabs, and all have just as much right to refer to themselves as Palestinians if they wish.
"....I'm finding it hard to take you seriously...." We'll, seeing as the majority of the posters here seem to be prepubescent or simply missed history classes I was merely trying to keep the discussion at a level they could comprehend. Since it matters so much to you please do feel to actually express an opinion from up there on your moral hobbyhorse.
Tuesday 4th December 2012 22:40 GMT AB
Re: @ Matt Bryant
Here's a short list of words you have introduced into the conversation: "Fakeistinian", ZERO, prepubescent.
You write that "all have just as much right to refer to themselves as Palestinians if they wish". Therefore, it remains unclear to me why - despite your history buff posturing - you insist that "Fakeistinian" is somehow more appropriate for the inhabitants of Gaza/West Bank.
Worth noting also that if I'm on a hobbyhorse, I'd be standing on the ground and therefore I wouldn't be "up" - unless the moral variety is different from the common-or-garden hobbyhorse.
Wednesday 5th December 2012 20:25 GMT Matt Bryant
Re: Re: @ Matt Bryant
Look, it's the backup SCHWINGER for Local Dupe!
"....prepubescent...." OK, I'm sorry for using long words, I'll keep it simple for you in future.
"....you insist that "Fakeistinian" is somehow more appropriate for the inhabitants of Gaza/West Bank...." It is appropriate as their attempt to hijack the title of Palestinians is just as fake as their claims of being the only victims from the conflict. Hey, I tried to explain the historical facts as simply as possible, if it was all to much for you I suggest you go get an adult's help. Maybe they can help you produce a counter that actually supplies facts and arguments rather than just obtuseness (sorry, that's another word for dumbness).
"....therefore I wouldn't be "up"...." You're certainly up somewhere dark and damp, even with your feet on the floor.
Saturday 8th December 2012 14:08 GMT Matt Bryant
Real objective of the hack?
So why would an Iranian sympathiser want to leak the names of Israeli nuke scientists? Probably so they can be targeted by protester numpties like Local Dupe, so that any peaceful activity with other nations is stymied. No co-incidence then that the SESAME project in Jordan - where Israeli scientists work side by side with Egyptians, Cypriots, Arabs and even the Iranians - is looking for additional funding (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7723168.stm). What's the betting the list released by Parastoo will just happen to include the names of all the Israeli scientists involved. The anti-Semites just can't stand the thought of Jews peacefully interacting and co-operating with other countries.