back to article Apple loses UK 'Samsung copied us' appeal: Must publicly GROVEL

Apple has lost an appeal over a UK ruling that said Samsung fondleslabs don't copy iPad's design and the fruity firm better put out an ad that says so. Cupertino immediately appealed when it not only lost the case but was ordered to take out advertisements and post on its website's front page that Samsung didn't copy the …

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  1. FartingHippo
    Trollface

    Oh my sides!

    What's that noise? Could it be the grinding of teeth emanating from One Infinite Loop...

    1. Bob Vistakin
      Happy

      Re: Oh my sides!

      Apple: Sorry.

      Samsung: You're apologising wrong. Do it again.

      Apple: Pretty please, sorry.

      Samsung: On one leg.

      Apple (standing on one leg): Pretty please, sorry.

      Samsung: Your'e only saying that because you have to. Say it like you mean it.

      Apple: Oh, we really mean it now. We won't do it again - honest. Pretty pretty please.

      Samsung: Now give me your dinner money.

  2. Steen Hive
    Thumb Up

    A good day

    ...Just got way better!

    1. VinceH
      Thumb Up

      Re: A good day

      Well, I was actually having a bad day - but now I've read this, it doesn't seem so bad after all. :)

    2. James O'Brien
      Thumb Up

      Re: A good day

      Not to mention I called this happening sooner or later a month or so ago....you have no idea how much I want to see this appology so to speak.

  3. Jim Carter

    That's just brightened my day.

    Although I can imagine a couple of die-hard Apple fans will say something about this, and get thoroughly downvoted as a result.

    Ho hum.

    1. henrydddd
      Happy

      Re: That's just brightened my day.

      I wonder if Samsung will introduce Apples web page as evidence in their appeal of their US loss.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: That's just brightened my day.

        if samsung did use apples web page as evidence, and then apple say in court something like "the judge made us do it, but we do not agree with the statement" - would that then be classed as contempt of court???

        1. Jyve

          Re: That's just brightened my day.

          Alas not, as this has been brought up. They're allowed to comment that they disagree with the judgement (after all, I'm sure many murderers disagree that they were found guilty "he was asking for it!"), but that's pretty much it.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: That's just brightened my day.

      Actually, there are people who can distinguish between the products that Apple makes and the company.

      I'm OK with the products, but what they are doing in court is beyond stupid so I seriously hope they get their fingers so burned they decide to go back to the normal and profitable business of making interesting kit.

  4. dssf

    The woosh was... the...

    Karma Train

    All this fucking money wasted on lawyers when one by one, apple's hell-bent bent for suppression falls like a house of cards. They could and should have seen their move would back fire. Theyncould have donated those hundreds of millions in attorney fees and court-ordered advisories of Samsung's innocence/non-guilt on orphanages, charities, battered women's shelters, political refugees, and ALL KINDS OF OTHER STUFF? so goddamned wasteful of big money when so many people starve and die .

    Sigh...... What i almost wound not do for just $250,000 after taxes....

    1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      other use for that money

      They could have doubled the pay of Foxconn workers.

      The sad thing is that Apple have quality products that fanboys love. They do not need to mess about in the courts. (I am a dyed in the wool penguinista. Even if Apple ban every competing gadget I will still not buy Apple.)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: other use for that money

        They really should have spent it on better wages for their testing team to avoid issues like the maps and scratching...

        Some people like apple some dont, Apple trying to say samsung devices == apple device is wrong, they are different, I buy samsung Android devices, I DON"T buy apple iOS devices...

  5. mfraz

    Colour

    I see the judge has specified the smallest size of font that can be used, but what is to stop them from "printing" it in white?

    1. Steen Hive
      Facepalm

      Re: Colour

      Simples. "Contempt of court". That'd stop their farting in church.

      1. Dave 126 Silver badge

        Re: Colour

        >I see the judge has specified the smallest size of font that can be used, but what is to stop them from "printing" it in white?

        That wouldn't work in the Financial Times! : D

        (for our overseas friends, the FT is printed on pink paper)

        1. stanimir

          FT

          for our overseas friends, the FT is printed on pink paper

          b/c back in the days of old dyeing the paper was actually cheaper than bleaching... and nowadays they have kept the tradition.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Colour

        Maybe but then again it's a British court so they're not going to be scared. After all the UK can't even get Assange and he's right under their nose. What will the courts do, leave Apple's personal data on a USB stick on the underground?

        1. John Bailey
          Facepalm

          Re: Colour

          Charge then with contempt of court, and extract penalties directly from their bank accounts.

          Stop them selling magical products until they stop mucking about.

          Close down the Apple stores.

          You seem to imagine that courts are somehow powerless. American?

        2. Naughtyhorse

          leave Apple's personal data on a USB stick on the underground?

          no mate we'll put it on one of a few thousand internet facing PC's connected to our defence network that don't even have windoze firewall running on them - in a sub folder called 'Roswell'

          <down gary, down> :-)

        3. Avatar of They
          WTF?

          Re: Colour

          We can't get Assange because of due process and the fact we honour international law and do things properly. We could follow the US and just storm the place, or we could just invade the home country, make the ambassadorial team useless and claim it back. But as we don't, he is still there. That is the point of sanctuary.

          That however has nothing whatsoever to do with our courts, the logic is sound. Apple sell a symbol and then tried to claim that wasn't part of the deal. Epic fail. Glad to see reasoned argument, shame the US is very quickly becoming the only place reason is an alien concept.

        4. Philolai
          Pirate

          Re: Colour

          Unlimited fines, hauling their UK execs in front of the court, ultimately banning Apple products from being sold in the European Union....

  6. Paul E

    You can almost hear the cogs grinding...

    trying to figure out how to turn the notices into apple adverts.

  7. Matt Bryant Silver badge
    Happy

    Not enough.

    "....he fruity firm will still have to publish the notice in font no smaller than Arial 14pt in the Financial Times, the Daily Mail, The Guardian, Moble Magazine and T3 magazine." They should be forced to have it on posters inside and outside every Apple store in the UK, and have every Apple "genius" and greeter be forced to repeat the statement that Samsung did not copy the iPad as the first thing they say to every customer that walks into the store. Not that it will change the minds of the fanbois, but it would actually get me to walk into their stores if I could have hte fun of watching one of their "geniuses" have to repeat it.

  8. GreggS

    Nice way to stick it to..

    the Germans at the same time!

    1. trottel
      Thumb Up

      Re: Nice way to stick it to..

      Indeed. And even as a German i have to say: Zat waz a goot on. Up yours, Düssseldorf.

  9. RainForestGuppy

    The Atlantic divide

    UK court displays a unusual show of common sense and declares you can't claim patent on every rectangle with rounded corners.

    US court shows flag waving patriosm and tries to ban competition.

  10. LinkOfHyrule
    Devil

    Bitch, you got told!

    See title bitch!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Bitch, you got told!

      Zuckerberg and farcebook have nothing to do with this one....bitch

      1. LinkOfHyrule

        Re: Bitch, you got told!

        Apple are also bitches, bitch

  11. Chris Miller

    Still smiling

    at the current Samsung ads in the UK: "You always know where you are with Samsung".

    1. Stratman

      As opposed to

      We always know where you are with Apple

      1. wowfood

        Re: As opposed to

        Not if they track location with thier own maps ap

    2. Silverburn
      Happy

      Re: Still smiling

      You always know where you are with Samsung

      In court, fighting Apple?

  12. hugo tyson
    Stop

    Front page link to here seems bad

    It goes to reghardware where the rest of the link 2012/10/18/apple_loses_uk_appeal_ipad/

    doesn't exist...

  13. Wintermute

    Arial? How gauche!

    Will the judge allow 14pt Helvetica instead?

    1. dssf

      Re: Arial? How gauche!

      Fortunately, it was not required to be in WingDings font....

    2. Steve Knox
      Joke

      Re: Arial? How gauche!

      He should have required comic sans. That would be a real punishment -- the font geeks who didn't die of apoplexy would be burning their iPads in the streets!

      1. DF118
        Mushroom

        Re: Arial? How gauche!

        Daaaamn youuuuu comiiiiiic saaaaaans!

      2. Steve Evans

        Re: Arial? How gauche!

        and badly kerned too!

      3. Monkey Bob
        Thumb Up

        Re: Arial? How gauche!

        As much as I hate Comic Sans I can't help but think that Papyrus would look worse.

        1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

          Re: Arial? How gauche!

          The Law of Infinite Font Regression: However awful font F_i looks, you can always find a font F_(i+1) which is worse.

          It's turtles all the way down.

          (PS to the editors: how about adding SUB to the set of permitted HTML tags?)

    3. jonathanb Silver badge

      Re: Arial? How gauche!

      As long as it has the same x height, then yes.

  14. Chad H.

    Seems like an opportunity.

    The New Apple iPad. So good even Samsung can't copy it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Seems like an opportunity.

      I see an alternate advert...

      The new iPad Mini, Samsung were right, you do want small tablets...

      The new Iphone, Samsung were right, 4" phones rock...

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I remember an incident years back where the Sun newspaper sacked (or probably got their distributors to sack) one of their lorry drivers and I think it was all linked to some union dispute. Think he took them to a tribunal and, I assume, won because the Sun then ran a story about how he'd told lies at the tribunal. He complained to the press complaints council who found in his favour and required the Sun to publish an apology ... which they did and directly underneath republished their orignal story under the headline "but the Sun says he's a lying trucker" - so another complaint to the PCC, another requirement to print an apology. Can't remember if it went round the block again!

    So, Apple could publish the ruling saying "A Judge has asked us to say this .... but we think different(tm)"

    1. Shagbag
      Headmaster

      That would be bad grammar. The adverb is 'differently'.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Also, in their latest App Store Guidelines...

        "We view Apps different than books or songs..."

        "DIFFERENT THAN"

        NO. NO. AND THRICE NO.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "That would be bad grammar. The adverb is 'differently'."

        But but but... hipster marketing tardery is "funner", surely?

  16. wowfood

    Appleology

    This is an announcement that is has been found by a UK court that Samsung didn't copy us, on the ground that it simply isn't up to our impeccable standards.

    1. FartingHippo
      Pint

      Re: Appleology

      Well played sir. *claps*

    2. jonathanb Silver badge

      Re: Appleology

      No, they have told them what they have to say. It is as follows:

      "On 9th July 2012 the High Court of Justice of England and Wales ruled that Samsung Electronic (UK) Limited's Galaxy Tablet Computers, namely the Galaxy Tab 10.1, Tab 8.9 and Tab 7.7 do not infringe Apple's registered design No. 0000181607-0001. A copy of the full judgment of the High court is available on the following link [link given].

      "That Judgment has effect throughout the European Union and was upheld by the Court of Appeal on .. A copy of the Court of Appeal's judgment is available on the following link []. There is no injunction in respect of the registered design in force anywhere in Europe."

    3. Shagbag

      Re: Appleology

      "... like our iMaps product."

  17. toadwarrior

    All they have to say is they were wrong and that's now official that samsung isn't as cool as Apple. I'm not seeing how that benefits Samsung in anyway but it gets the job done.

    1. Markl2011

      They might also want to point out what the Judge said about the Samsung tablets.

      ""From the front they belong to the family which includes the Apple design; but the Samsung products are very thin, almost insubstantial members of that family with unusual details on the back."

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Isn't Arial a Microsoft font?

    This is all very amusing, but I don't think Apple has to say Samsung didn't copy; they have to say Samsung's copying doesn't break any UK law. (No-one is confused by Samsung's copying)

    1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

      Arial

      Isn't Arial a Microsoft font?

      Top font historians, or a trivial consultation with Wikipedia, would reveal that, no, Arial was created by Monotype, originally for an IBM printer (the 3800, a laser printer IBM introduced in 1983). Microsoft didn't introduce Arial in Windows for about another ten years.

  19. Johnny Canuck

    Please

    Be sure to show pics of the statement, when it arrives, for us folks on the left of the Atlantic.

  20. stanimir

    No ad in El Reg

    pity... that would be real fun to observe

  21. Stan Smith

    Is the actual verbiage of the required notice spelled out? They could just turn it around and say, "Samsung didn't copy our designs for their devices; They're similar, but not as cool as ours."

    The judge himself made that argument, so I'm not sure how that would be out of bounds...

    1. Sean Timarco Baggaley

      ^^^ That ^^^

      The judge has pretty much handed Apple the opportunity to run a "Samsung officially ruled as not as cool as Apple" advert in the form of an "apology". The judge actually made that assertion about "coolness", so running such an "apology" would not be grounds for contempt of court if done right.

      As an earlier poster says, I think Apple (UK) will see this as more of an opportunity than a problem. They might even pay to put their "apology" on some posters.

      1. Nick G
        Facepalm

        Re: ^^^ That ^^^

        And, of course, we all know that judges are the arbiters of cool...

        1. Sean Timarco Baggaley

          Re: ^^^ That ^^^

          Like I said, they'll have to spin it just right. But Apple pay some very expensive people an awful lot of money to do just that.

    2. Matthew 3

      'Not as cool'

      Anyone who has to tell you that they're cool isn't and won't ever be.

    3. Geoff Campbell
      Facepalm

      You're kidding, right?

      A UK Judge being used as an arbiter of what is cool? I suspect that would kill Apple's sales stone dead overnight.

      GJC

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Court of Appeal Decision in Samsung v Apple

    Court of Appeal decision link:

    http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2012/1339.html

    There's an embedded link on the above web-page to a PDF version.

    Also in the web-page are embedded links to earlier decisions.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Court of Appeal Decision in Samsung v Apple

      I searched the Apple Website for "Where is your apology to Samsung?"

      Sadly all I got was "No results were found. Please try a different search."

      I suspect a Vanessa Perroncel type apology "We understand that Samsung are Upset that we Accused them of Copying us and that they might find this defamatory (in any case IT WAS A LIE!)

      Still, apparently Apple nave now discovered in an alarming piece of innovation, that people's thumbs are long enough to vover a 4" screeen - who would have thought!

  23. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Devil

    Sir Robin Jacob: "If courts around Europe simply say they do not agree with each other and give inconsistent decisions, Europe will be the poorer,"

    I couldn't agree less. Forced agreement does not good jurisprudence make. This lawsuit is a case in point.

    Apple lawyeristas: "slab-fondlers would ignore trademarks"

    Scraping the barrel and basically shitting on oneself, is that it now, Apple?

    1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

      Europe will be poorer in a strict economic sense: inconsistent rulings are a barrier to trade.

      Your argument against blindly following precedent has some merit, but the bias should be toward precedent, because of the cost of inconsistency; and then Europe needs a court of final resort which can quickly resolve the discrepancy (and those rulings would have to be binding). That would mean greater integration; and while the Euro crisis will likely drag the EU countries into greater financial integration, it's also raised Euroskepticism.

      So if you let Community courts produce inconsistent rulings, you either have an impediment to trade (eg, certain consumer devices legal in some parts of the common market but not others), or you have an uphill battle to rework the national and international court systems to reconcile conflicting rulings.

      Of course economics need not trump everything - but this is a sense in which Jacob's statement is literally true (at least if understood as hypothetical).

  24. Shonko Kid
    Go

    Cut-out and keep collectors edition

    Be worth buying a paper just to frame this.

    1. Maliciously Crafted Packet

      Re: Cut-out and keep collectors edition

      Newspapers, I remember them.

      Do people still read newspapers these days?

      1. Andus McCoatover
        Windows

        Do people still read newspapers these days?

        Oh, yes, indeed! I pass my local library daily, and if I've found an interesting article online, I whip out my Samsung 8.9 Tab, (always with me) use the free application "Camscanner(HD)" , photo. it, then let the software process it, correct for things like keystone effect, frame it, enhance it, then format into a PDF, and print. It's practically the same as the original.

        Dunno if Apple has the same, if they have, you may have to pay $$$ for it, I guess!

  25. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

    Dear Apple - here is where you went wrong..

    See this TED talk:

    http://www.ted.com/talks/johanna_blakley_lessons_from_fashion_s_free_culture.html

    Those who care about design, will buy the design. Those who don't, don't - and will not have been your customer in the first place. The talk above is about the fact that the fashion industry has NO copyright protection, only trademark protection - for a reason.

    1. sueme2
      Thumb Up

      Re: Dear Apple - here is where you went wrong..

      The bar chart near the end of her talk is the message. However Apple belongs at the very smallest end of that chart. So what gives? what have they set out to do? It is far more than "Android is an Apple ripoff" because the fruitcake's lawyers have always been buzzing round the trash. I think it is more like the wish for total control over a selected market.

      1. Sean Timarco Baggaley

        Re: Dear Apple - here is where you went wrong..

        "I think it is more like the wish for total control over a selected market."

        Or it could be that Apple have a very different design philosophy to most of their competitors.

        Apple released their first iPhone (which didn't even support MMS or copy and paste) and – suddenly – every competitor was jumping on the finger-friendly-multitouch-screen-with-no-stylus bandwagon. All of them. Seriously, it was embarrassing to watch. The first iPad also caused a similar scramble, with a flurry of announcements of utterly shite "me-too" knock-off products. (Remember, this is the period when this lawsuit was initially launched. We're talking about the first -gen devices that ran Android v1.x and v2.x, which really were blatant iOS knock-offs.)

        There's no point claiming the ingredients are all that matter when the correct proportions clearly make such a huge difference.

        People keep claiming Apple's devices are "obvious", but if this was truly the case, Apple shouldn't have been the first to market with usable devices combining the relevant technologies. Many devices seem "obvious" in hindsight. This is not a defence.

        Good design is a holistic process. The whole package is what matters, not just bits of it. Any company (or lawyer) arguing otherwise is harming the industry, not helping it. And this has been Apple's approach since at least the late 1990s, so why this still seems such a shock to so many escapes me. Apple have never tried to hide any of this.

        And Steve Jobs made no secret that Apple had patented the iPad to the hilt. He literally said just that during his spiel at the first iPad's launch. Steve Jobs didn't f*ck about making idle threats and really knew how to hold a grudge.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Dear Apple - here is where you went wrong..CAKE/EAT IT

          "There's no point claiming the ingredients are all that matter when the correct proportions clearly make such a huge difference."

          ...

          "Good design is a holistic process. The whole package is what matters, not just bits of it."

          So you write off the competition as shite because they don't look EXACTLY the same, and then claim that Apple have a point? This, I just don't get. If a design copyright is so general that it block all similar products that's plainly stupid, but you are pointing out that anyone who uses 90% if the same DNA will look and operate in a discernably different way. Case Dismissed as anyone can tell the difference.

          I'm typing now on a device that has 90% DNA in common with an iPAD. It has a slim profile, a screen that covers most of the real-estate, rounded corners and has a processor and operating system with SW that can be used to browse the web, play games or email.

          The only thing is, it's a laptop. Remove the keyboard and use a touchscreen for input and the results are OBVIOUS and therefore reflected in the prior art.

  26. Naughtyhorse

    slab-fondlers would ignore trademarks.

    he stood up, in court and said that?

    and DIDN'T burst into flames?

    wtf?

  27. b166er

    ology? There's an App for that.

    1. b166er

      Oh and, how do you like those Apples?

  28. rvt

    I am hoping for a good 'hello I am a ipad, and I am a Samsung' style advertisement, then the iPad will so how much more cool it is.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Samsung Tablet: Why won't anyone take me home iPad?

      iPad: Because you're so insubstantial SamTab, maybe you should get a keyboard or stylus to make yourself stand out.

      Samsung Tablet: Thanks iPad. I wish I was as cool as you.

      iPad: I know you do SamTab, I know you do.

  29. Dave 150
    Thumb Up

    "Whether or not Samsung has any claim in the German courts for all the losses it has suffered as a result of preliminary measures which proved to be unjustified is obviously not a matter for us."

    I like that Judge lol

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Surely that is a big 'YES'

      If a court gives an injunction that is then lifted, usually the firm that requested it would be liable... so please Samsung sue Apple for lots of losses......

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    slab-fondlers would ignore trademarks.

    Oh, for god's sake... the bloody trade mark is the only reason Apple buyers buy Apple.

    What next? Would Apple even go to the lengths of arguing that their product is inferior to win a case?

    1. jonathanb Silver badge

      Re: slab-fondlers would ignore trademarks.

      I bought my iPad rather than a Galaxy Tab largely because it was cheaper (Black Friday 2011, iDevices were reduced, Droids were not, otherwise they were the same price).

  31. MikeS
    Happy

    iSorry

    I am sure everyone at Apple is really iSorry now they just need to write the iPology

  32. ukgnome
    Trollface

    We would like to apologise to samsung, we said you copied us, but were wrong. Your product is legally not cool.

  33. Ian Johnston Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    Copying or not has nothing to do with it

    The judge explicitly said he was not ruling on whether Samsung copied Apple, but on whether Samsung's design infringed Apple's registered design. You can copy without infringing and you can infringe without copying.

  34. Boris Winkle

    Hahahahahahahahahahah

    HAhahahahahahahahah

    .......

    Hhahahahahahahahahahahahah

    ......

    Hhahaahahahahaaaa...

  35. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. MikeS
      Go

      Re: Will never happen

      this was the appeal, and the original court ruling was upheld,

      if Apple don't comply they will be in contempt of court, in which case unlimited fines can be levied.

      1. jonathanb Silver badge

        Re: Will never happen

        It can still go to the Supreme Court and the European Court of Justice. If it does, it could be some time before we see the apology, and by that time, peoples obsolete iPad3s and Galaxy Tabs will be gathering dust at the bottom of a cupboard while they enjoy their iPad21 or Galaxy Tab XIX

  36. pewpie
    Pint

    Suck it, Mapple.

    Oh and by the way last time I checked reality, being defined as 'cool' by the establishment in fact means the exact opposite.

  37. Dogsauce

    I think the judge should rule that they both have to mow the lawn in their wife's best sunday dress.

  38. Arachnoid
    Thumb Up

    Now all we need is an image of an Apple exec with a Smsung pad in his hand and our job will be done............

  39. Green Nigel 42
    Alert

    Apple Crumble for the perfect Cook

    Apple is told to say , "very sorry Samsung", fine, nice warm feeling.

    Will it make a difference to Apple sales No!

    Samsung, rub it in now beat that company showing middle age, Apple, with real innovation, like the Note but with more value & apps, before the W8 tablet blight .

  40. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Everyone is a loser in all this shit and all these corps are as bad as each other. Just like those kids we all knew at school who had parents who'd buy them anything they wanted, these kids would forever keep arguing about who had the best ABC or XYZ, all of them just pathetic.

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