So if it's OK for Apple to lie on their adverts is it ok for me to lie on my job application?
Apple posted job adverts for six iOS map engineers within the past ten days, perhaps preempting the storm of criticism over the controversial new map app in iOS 6. Any effort to boost the software's team could be seen as too little, too late after fanbois and fangrrls across the world branded the new satnav-like service as …
It's not a good trend for Apple when their older hardware is widely considered to be better. iPhone 5 was REALLY underwhelming. Look at pictures that show it side by side with Galaxy S3. Apple has done quite a few underwhelming products in the past, or products that lacked features. However, they've never released something that was so half-baked and a giant step backward as iOS 6 Maps.
I think this may be the turning point in their meteoric rise and it's going to be downhill from here. I certainly don't want Apple to disappear, but it would be splendid if they get taken down a peg or two.
Apple do this thing where they change the connectors/ports thus making aftermarket devices obsolete. Anyone remember nu bus?
I almost bought a 3GS so I could use it as a phone and a sound recorder using various third party addons that used the analogue stereo line in that was provided in the dock connector. iPhone 4/4s? removed the analogue stereo requiring various bodged ways of getting audio in from good quality mikes. Google Hindenberg Field Recorder and iRigMic for the current bodge.
"Apple do this thing where they change the connectors/ports thus making aftermarket devices obsolete. Anyone remember nu bus?"
Indeed, I had a NuBus-equipped Mac way back in the day. I'm sure glad that other companies don't make their connectors and devices obsolete, and that computers today still use the same VESA LocalBus standard the PC I had at the same time used...oh, wait. :)
"Look at pictures that show it side by side with Galaxy S3".
I can do better than that, as I have both. The iPhone is 'better' for me in almost every way. Are we looking at the same products?
iPhone Maps is dire though. No doubt Google will be along soon enough.
It is certainly very tempting to amuse oneself and I for one am having a quiet chuckle. However, I have to confess that because online maps/navigation really matter to an awful lot of punters (unlike Siri whose limitations do not matter (currently) in the greater scheme of things) I am absolutely astonished that Apple let this product out of the door in this condition. I am convinced that Jobs would never have permitted such a high profile and important part of the software services on any smartphone to be released in this condition. Cupertino really have taken their eye off the ball with this one. A certain Finnish phone producer with a very widely admired maps/navigation package must be laughing their gonads off about now!
................ mark with this one than I was anticipating. They must have worked nightshift in Espoo this time.
Try and offer an alternative or choice?
This is something Fandroids don't seem to get. They would rather Apple, Microsoft/Nokia, RIM and anyone else doing a smartphone would just die and the only choice to be Android.
Except that Android would stagnate just like Microsoft did until Apple really started to challenge them in the consumer market.
What are you even talking about? Only 11 year olds jumping up and down in their chairs high on sugar actually think removing all competition is a good idea.
I use an Android device, but I think it's healthy to have many choices.
People don't have a problem that Apple exists, people have a problem that Apple acts like a huge bully, stealing ideas when it suits it, suing everyone when they think anyone has done the same.
They also have this impenetrable air of smugness surrounding them and everything they do, but that's a possibly subjective viewpoint.
Steve, you are quite the Apple apologist. Like others have said, there is no excuse for releasing an app this bad. It was billed as something ready for primetime, and it simply isn't. Whether or not it's the data that is to blame doesn't matter: either way, Apple has clearly neglected to do proper quality control and testing.
Keep drinking the KoolAid.
In my day job I deal a lot with data management, import, conversion and merging. And I'm a software architect. I imagine Apple's problems include multiple data sources with incompatible coordinate systems, multiple formats, and identifying obsolete data. I also suspect there's an army of drones in China or India entering stuff manually, and systems will be needed to improve that process - speed, accuracy, reliability, cross checking.
I''m just completing a simple little job to merge and cross-compare a few tables in two databases, using multiple lookups to identify common keys. It's taken a good month of work and the application to allow user interaction is just about ready for evaluation. I imagine merging mapping data must be hundreds of times more difficult. So yes, the scale of the engineering team looks about right. But don't expect quick results.
I also suspect that if Jobs was still around they wouldn't have been trying to get the turkey to fly by firing it from a cannon. Perhaps that's where he'll be most missed.
Agree about drones. But don't get why drones were needed.
If you have a few years to spare, a big pile of cash, all the software engineers you can eat, and some big data sets, why not - I don't know - use exciting modern computer technology to do the translation for you?
The idea that Apple paid for manual data entry to convert one electronic data set into another is WTF on a stick.
And the fact that apparently no one noticed there were showstopper issues until a few weeks before launch makes my head explode.
Maybe it was manudjmentitis -'Let's do the fuck-off stupid thing because it'll be cheaper, amIright?'
I guess Apple is learning the hard way why Googles projects sit in beta status for years. If there is one thing Google rules at and will always do better than Apple its data aggregation. Apple maps may someday be as good as but I highly doubt they will ever be better than Google's absolutely massive geolocation program. Google considers this critical to their business model and have had vans driving around snooping and taking pictures world wide for years.
Google's stuff stays in beta all the time so they can avoid any warranty issues. If you aren't claiming to release a finished product it is a defence against people suing etc.
If Google are so wonderful why is their money stream still largely advertising? 96% in 2011.
They seem to be to be producing adware, products funded by advertising.
"Google's stuff stays in beta all the time so they can avoid any warranty issues."
Google give (most of) their stuff away for free and you basically sign away any warranty on your free service when you register. Keeping something in beta for a long time is not an issue so long as those using it know it and have a choice.
"If Google are so wonderful why is their money stream still largely advertising? 96% in 2011."
What does wonderful have to do with anything? They're a business, a particularly successful one. All of their tech products are built to support their advertising business - I don't see why this is an issue, we get free e-mail etc. Google get ad revenue. If you don't like that, use Hotmail etc.
"They seem to be to be producing adware, products funded by advertising."
Really it's the other way around, Google create the products to get people online and show them adverts - that is what Google Search was/is, an ad platform with a reason to visit it - it's good at what it does.
If television series are so wonderful, why is their money stream largely funded through advertising?...
- Surely if TV programs were better they wouldn't need to be funded through advertising? Doesn't that mean all ad funded television is rubbish?
"If you aren't claiming to release a finished product it is a defence against people suing etc."
- And yet here we are, talking about how bad a non-beta product is. What a crazy world.
>> Google's stuff stays in beta all the time so they can avoid any warranty issues.
Oh deary me, have you ever actually READ a software EULA? Most of that legalese is the vendor saying in overtly complex terms that their 'warranty' covers sweet fuck all and you as a user can't blame if anything goes wrong.
All software vendors try to avoid warranty issues. At least Google are kind enough not to charge us for the software and services and as always, you have a choice. You don't have to use Google.
- The Register notes that Apple has hired 15 peeps into the maps team this year, starting on 5 July with a call for a "maps engineering project manager, iOS SW".
- Since 11 September Apple has posted six job vacancies for iOS software engineers in the maps division.
Looks like they sacked almost half the team when they saw the sh*t they'd produced!
Pity they didn't postpone the launch or issue the maps change as an update in 6 months time.
Perhaps they don't understand that even if you hire 9 women you can't make a baby in one month. Worse yet, adding so many people that late in the game usually just means the project will slip further behind even faster while everyone is busy trying to get on the same page. Had they been honest with themselves that update in 6 months might have been a wonderful publicity event, now it will look like a sheepish apology regardless of how they try to spin it.
One may be against donating money to poor, or may hide it perfectly so nobody knows.
Check the stuff they use starting with latest, open street maps. Gnu stuff, Apache stuff, independent developers, bsd. Did they donate a freaking CENT to them?
I use open cycle maps personally and will buy offline maps just to donate and I hope one day we can easily contribute from our devices.
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Where's the asdf foundation to help humanity?
What voluntary work does asdf do?
To what charities does asdf contribute, and how much?
What proportion of asdf's time and income is dedicated to serving or helping the less fortunate?
Feel free to prove me wrong, but I suspect asdf is the usual "all mouth & trousers" arrogant child...
I believe asdf was comparing Steve Jobs to Bill Gates, both of whom are/were incredibly rich. Bill Gates is trying to use his massive wealth to do good (however misguided and inept he may be at it) whereas Jobs didn't, or at least not as publicly.
I would imagine that an asdf fund to help humanity wouldn't have the same financial clout as Bill's, we don't tend to have too many mega-millionaires on here (though judging by some of the recent posts there are a fair few rich boys...)
The thing with Gates and Jobs is they could both give half their fortunes away and still be minted. So it seems fair to call Jobs a cheapskate and qualify it with a reference to Gate's charitable foundation.
but no way he releases a half baked maps service before its ready.
hah !!! Steve's companies had multiple half baked products, people only remember the ones that worked. Newton, Lisa, neXt, Mobile Me etc. No one who recalls Newton's handwriting recognition (or more accurately, non-recognition) would ever start a comment with " no way he releases a half baked .."
The Newton was developed and released long after Steve left and before he was rehired (one of the reasons he was rehired). In 1982, Steve Jobs was forced out of the Lisa project, so he joined the Macintosh project instead. (sourced from wikipedia so buyer beware). The world wide web was invented on Next computers but I will grant you Steve overengineered them to the point they were very expensive workstations that didn't sell well but much of the technology developed did largely lay the foundation for his Mac OS X/IOS empire later (still f__k objective C, never should have made it out of the 80s). He definitely was not perfect but Tim who? He is all the bad qualities of Steve (arrogance, total douche) without any of the good.
Don't care one way or another - never owned an Apple product; they are pretty, but as far as I'm concerned overpriced. Maybe this is why it seems for me to be the first seriously, and visibly public FAIL of Apple in recent years. They said that Jobs was a control freak, but that worked very well for him and the company; without him they start to do what most of the companies in US seems to do - they get overexcited (and/or over-greedy) and try to push for too many things too fast.
you could hire a million people into the maps team.... the maps app can be the most polished progam in existence, the maps application isnt the problem... the issue is the source of the map data - this is owned, managed and updated by TomTom.... They are the people that need to be investing in staff, cameras, licencing/updating imagery.
>They are the people that need to be investing in staff, cameras, licencing/updating imagery.
No Apple is still to blame for not doing due diligence then (money shouldn't be an issue compared to quality for Apple's war chest). That said glad to hear that because Garmin is a big employer in my hometown and I have friends working over there.
Tomtom maps do not have all problems that apple are having, e.g. tomtom satnav do know where stratford upon avon is. What it looks like to me is either problems importing the data or, more likely they are just using tomtom data for the roads and are getting the data on places from somewhere else.
i thought this was down to OpenStreetMaps being used for the source data? Not TomTom.
Im not going to join the bandwagon, but having seen Maps in use at work today i can only presume that they had no other option but to use the data and just hope they can ride the storm or that they could just get users to correct everything.
One self confessed fanboi i work with is attempting to return his iphone 5 tonight based solely on the maps issue.
Its a good day to be an android user!
It's not (all) OSM data. OSM knows that Luton isn't in Devon.
Some of the problem looks like tagging issues (to use OSM jargon: landuse=industrial and landuse=park render differently, and there are cockups like that throughout). Some appears to be simply wrong data. Some smells to me that they've got a tag like "highway=imported" that is set not to render until it's been cleared by a checker, and that didn't happen before release.
Beta in live, Steve would be sad. Or wiki, but there's already one of those... ;)
Apple does have over a 100 billion in the bank though which can be used to fix showstoppers very quickly. They could buy any other geolocation company and database other than perhaps Google (lol they even have cash to do that I think) today if they wanted. The bad press for the next however long it takes to fix is what hurts. My guess is Google maps app will be on ios 6 within a week.
Apple do like to bring in open source solutions then put their bling on top using relatively small teams, this time it bit them on the arse though. It doesn't matter how much money you've got, you need development time to fix something which is fundamentally broken.
I wouldn't expect Google to willingly bail them out, maybe we'll see Apple sue them for anti-competitive behaviour (not supplying Google Maps for iOS 6).
Many seem to expect that Google will helpfully provide an app to plug the gap. They even expect that Apple may block that app.
But... wouldn't it make sense for Google to delay that app, just a bit? Yes, they'd forgo some proximity-based business ad revenue.
But think of all the people who may opt for an Android instead. Tasty! Why pull Apple's chestnuts out of the fire?
Full disclosure: on iOS 5 for now and will cautiously dip my toes into iOS6 once I know my iPhone 4 isn't a second class citizen on it. Not a great fan of the Google App, mostly because it's non-caching/network only. Do appreciate public transport routing, which is available and works really well where I live.
And, as far as no-network/caching map software goes, I nominate PocketEarth (paid app & not to confused with an older celestial app of the same name) which uses OpenStreetMap.
Bit pants on the routing bit, but links to wikipedia for local POIs. And free maps, reasonably accurate in my neck of the woods.
(Black helicopters, cuz starving Apple of a decent map app is a bit conspiracy-theorist)
Think before you type. The risk is not iphone 5 just-bought-it folks. Duh!
It's iPhone 4 /4s folks thinking of updating their phones & getting iOS6 w useless maps.
But thats ok dude, you got the religion. I dont, Apple is just one possible vendor to me, and I suspect this cant be a good spot for Apple to be in. They have plenty of money to throw at it so I expect they'll get the egg off their face, eventually.
Apple wanted to get rid of Google fast as possible so the bosses asked other bosses if they could produce a superb system bye them selves fast as hell. They all said "Yes" as that is the only answer allowed. Then they asked the programmers and others if they can do it, and again the answer was "Yes" as that is the only answer programmers are allowed to use. I should know, I said "Yes" for 35 years. It is indeed very common, and probably one of the reasons why many good programmers do open source rather than work for companies run by idiots and so damned dependent on what ever Christmas or similar event is approaching. The rest is history.
Makes me happy, in fact.
As somebody pointed out without up to date maps you have absolutely nothing and I wont believe TomTom is the reason here as their navigators work fine. A map is not a map but a hell of a lot of code you have to make into a map.
If you do not know how to work with that data you produce rubbish.
But... wouldn't it make sense for Google to delay that app, just a bit? Yes, they'd forgo some proximity-based business ad revenue. But think of all the people who may opt for an Android instead. Tasty! Why pull Apple's chestnuts out of the fire?
Google doesn't really care if Android wins, they just need ad revenue. Although you do have a point for the most point, Apple can (and probably will) lock Google out at some point. For Google it's a calculation of whether they'll get more out of providing the app vs. the number of people that *may* switch. How many fanbois are realistically going to switch to Android?
And, as far as no-network/caching map software goes, I nominate PocketEarth (paid app & not to confused with an older celestial app of the same name) which uses OpenStreetMap.
Before this, I didn't realize Google Maps on iOS doesn't cache. That is crap.
Tom Tom supplies maps to the masses, and the masses manage to map quite well. This problem belongs to the iThing. All antennas have shitty maps, why!! you only have to look at the other maps to see iXXX is not alone. And other bullshit like that will be running soon. Apple might even tell it like it is in RDF:: You are simply holding the phone wrong.
I see very little mention of Nokia / MS here...
I'll resist the temptation to mention Symbian to heavily, with my main point being.. Lumia with Nokia maps blows even dedicated sat nav devices out of the water.
WP8 launch should start with a video...
A car with a Lumia on the dash directing the car to the venue, shift time a bit to get in all road types, nice places on the way, all shot of course with a Lumia... I dunno maybe show someone riding bike in, walking too yes, don't forget public transport either.
I thought the icloud would be apples Achilles heel but hey, they couldnt have chosen worse fail considering the new competitions massive strength in the exact field.
And they'll be made by Nokia and therefore drop tested.
Who'd a thought it...
This is the real popcorn moment.
Due to Apples walled garden policy it's unlikely that a Google Maps app will be allowed as it duplicates functionality. That along with other walled garden policies like all alternative browsers essentially being a re-skinned version of safari means that the consumer suffers at the end of the day.
Apple should embrace allowing rival products to the likes of Apple Maps & safari, because without rivals Apple are free to just put out products and never improve them, but if they opened it up and they had competition from other developers making rival browsers that aren't a re-skinned safari or a rival maps app then they might pull their finger out and improve and innovate their products which is better for the iPhone users in the long run.
I've got an iPhone 4S but as long as that POS maps app is on there I won't be upgrading and I'll probably get a Galaxy 4 as my next phone. Apple are standing still and the industry shows those who stand still are essentially going backwards. What have they added to safari for example? - Synchronising of tabs and a full screen browser. Hardly showstoppers and the limitations of safari are still present.
Shame on you Apple for dumping Google Maps and replacing it with a bunch of crap. So what happened to your hyper-testing of installed SW? No matter how many engineers you hire, there is no way you could have made a working map app in a few months. That takes a lot of time and patience; plus you can't possibly have all that Streetview data which permits the Google navigation to even tell you what is written on the road signs at intersections (unless you steal that from them!)
"Same goes for Microsoft& Nokia."
Nokia has no problem. It bough the established Navteq map company in 2007, for their technology and map data,, for an outrageous sum ($8.1 billion), and everybody scratched their heads, it is seen as one of Nokia's more expensive blunders. But I wonder if it was prescient after all. Now Nokia has fully debugged mapping software and maps independent of Google's.
Jobs might have treated his employees like a maniacal fanatic but rarely would he compromise on quality.
The Don't squeeze phone obviously embarrassed him and a few heads were pushed.
This COOK guy has screwed up serially: first with Siri and now with this joke called maps. It's not as if Apple hasn't been purloining user location data. The satellite maps are crappy old black and white, low resolution junk. Russia sat ops are selling better quality sat pictures.
This fiasco shows just how good Google maps are.
You've already reported the map sucks, and by all accounts it does. The fact Apple are recruiting in no way implies that they believed this to be the case, that they were panicking, or that they believed that new developers would mean it would suddenly be fixed.
In fact I'd fully expect that, regardless of the state of the application, you would see job adverts go up now. This is because they have completed (arguably) the first development iteration, and are now getting ready for the next release. This often involves increasing the team as you don't start a new application with 1000 devs on board - it would be chaos.
I can't help but feel that this article is a thinly veiled excuse to continue bashing apple. I quite enjoy bashing apple, but would like some new material to do it with rather than another re-run of "the maps don't work".
"fanbois and fangrrls across the world "
Boyish lesbians and punk feminists? Well, some of the women in the queue may have been of that persuasion but, at least where I am, they seemed to be outnumbered by the straight and the straights (not, of course, that this is something that can be categorised by such a superficial examination as a glance).
I don't know, I'm getting old. I can't keep up with this new-fangled argot. When did bois start having to share their name? What was wrong with calling fans 'fans' and 'fanboys'?
...and I am utterly, thoroughly lost without GPS, even in my own back yard.
I upgraded my iPad to iOS 6, and discovered in Apple's Maps application a reason to hang on to my Android phone. There's quite a lot I really don't like about Android, but Google's maps app is undeniably the only thing that lets me find my way around.
Now if only I could figure out why the voice synthesis in the turn-by-turn navigation keeps stuttering and glitching since I upgraded to Android 4.0...
...Apple has also hired a global team of construction workers (the 'iTerraform Team') to stretch bridges, move buildings and roads and adjust the landscape so reality is better aligned with Apple maps.
Apple's team is nearly done, but there are still a couple of troublesome cities that still insist on existing, despite flatly contradicting the one true map view.
But I just used the new wonky maps app for TBT directions on my iPhone 4, and aside that it doesn't voice the turns it works way better than the old maps app did, which basically needed you to manually page through the route.
And that's the crux of it, sat nav is a must have feature in a smartphone and google said no, so they've rolled their own, they can fix their stuff that's broken, they can't add turn by turn to the old maps though.
Apple has a thin and fragile veneer of "perfection" over endless software screw ups. There was a time when the cut and paste would refuse to paste a URL; they fixed it but then it came back, and then they fixed it again. Their spill chucker is (even today) unaware of cursor re-positioning; move the cursor and it'll make a total botch of auto corrections. Used free Wifi in a US airport to try to download a free BBC podcast, and it crashed the music playback app in a way that required iTunes (my home PC, at home) to fix. There are a thousand other examples of their human failings poking through the veneer of software perfection.
For what it's worth, Google Android and Google Play also have stupid and inexcusable failings. I won't even bother with RIM; they've skipped the veneer part.
Apple, particularly since the second coming of Jobs, has gradually alienated engineers. Back then, you could buy an Apple and you always had the sense of it being a bit over-engineered and well made, with decisions being taken (like the PPC) for rational reasons, or at least because of a certain element of beauty. At least the hardware architecture was a thing of beauty.
Now with Jobs, we get locked down boot loaders and operating systems. We get devices which are so badly designed you cannot even replace a broken battery. You can only install one operating system, the one that shipped with it. And that operating system was dumbed down to a point I cannot do anything useful with it as an engineer.
For engineers Apple has just become one of the worse consumer electronics companies. It feels like, at Apple you'll only be able to design products deliberately made bad by management decisions and you are not allowed to make it as good as you could. Working at a company which is like that, I know how frustrating that can be. All the interesting stuff inside that device, like for example the GSM/UMTS/LTE baseband has been outsourced to other companies. (there's only a tiny hand-full of baseband stacks, made by very few companies)
So Apple is no longer a place I'd like to work as an engineer. Luckily for Apple, since they have transcended into a religion, product quality doesn't matter anymore.
I'd use my iPhone 4S. Or my wife's iPhone 5 that I'll probably buy her next month after the crowds die down a bit (her 3GS battery is on its last legs). Or my Google Nexus 7 tablet if I'm in the mood for Android apps. My RIM PlayBook is also within reach. I might buy a Kindle Fire HD later just for laughs.
We spend more on bananas and milk in the run of a year than Apple/Android gadgets.
I have dark grey socks. What colour are your socks? My colour socks are better than your colour socks.
So, you're using a browser to actually utilize maps on your phone. That's not even a bandaid. More like a "duct tape fixes everything" type approach.
At least the Maps/Latitude/Navigation on my Android powered phone actually work.. and work well. Keep trying to defend your iPhone. We all know the truth.
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