back to article Bruce Willis didn't Buy Hard: His girls can't inherit his iTunes

Hollywood actor Bruce Willis could reportedly take Apple to court over a massive digital music library that he wants to pass on to his kids when he dies. The Die Hard and Armageddon star wants his daughters Rumer, Scout and Tallulah to "own" the digital music he painstakingly downloaded from iTunes, but the current terms of …


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  1. wag

    I don't use iTunes (or similar sites) for that very reason. I don't think Willis has a leg to stand on from a legal point of view as the terms are pretty clear and he presumably agreed to them when he signed up. But if he does take action I hope he succeeds.

    The whole "digital legacy" issue is becoming more and more important to consumers and the big tech companies should stop brushing it under the carpet.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward


      Downvoted: just because you agreed to their license doesn't mean you wave away your rights, if the terms of the license are illegal or unenforceable. *That* is was a court will have to decide, if Bruce manages to get this far.

      1. Paul_Murphy

        Re: Re:

        Actually I believe that the fact that the contract is non-negotiable is more relevant, since there is no mechanism for putting your wording on the 'agreement' your bargaining position is zero.

        I suspect the lawyers would love to get their teeth into that one since it's one way to truly alienate your customers - paying full price for something that you can't pass on? not fair...


      2. Steve Knox

        Re: Re:

        Downvote Downvoted: OP was just stating his opinion, not claiming that Mr. Willis had necessarily waived any rights. Besides, a licensee has no rights* to licensed material other than those conveyed by the license he agreed to.

        Furthermore, the existence of illegal or unenforceable terms does not negate the necessity of reading and understanding the terms of any contract one enters into. Most modern contracts include a clause, which has been held to be legal, which states that if there are any illegal terms in the contract, those terms are null and the rest of the contract stands.

        Many software licenses include a non-transferable clause which has held up in court (for a good example, research the legal history of AutoDesk's AutoCAD license.) That would easily cover this "legacy" scenario. So unless Apple's lawyers really messed up, or a judge were to find a substantial and relevant difference between music licensing and software licensing, Mr. Willis is not likely to succeed.

        PS. It's waive. You can wave your rights all the way to the bank, but you'll just look like a fool.

        * Technically, "fair use" and other similar constructs are not licensee rights, but exceptions to rightsholders' rights of enforcement.

        1. Charles 9 Silver badge

          Re: Re:

          "Many software licenses include a non-transferable clause which has held up in court (for a good example, research the legal history of AutoDesk's AutoCAD license.) That would easily cover this "legacy" scenario. So unless Apple's lawyers really messed up, or a judge were to find a substantial and relevant difference between music licensing and software licensing, Mr. Willis is not likely to succeed."

          Vernor v. Autodesk (2008) originally ruled in favor of Vernor, citing if it looks like a sale and transacts like a sale, it's a sale--and subject to first-sale doctrine. What derailed the case in the Court of Appeals was the finding that the copies didn't come to Vernor through proper channels. The copies IIRC were meant to be returned to Autodesk or destroyed as part of an upgrade contract (thus making the copies spoken for), but Vernor physically stole the copies instead, breaking the chain of ownership.

    2. Silverburn

      Naturally, you went with an alternative which supports your legacy requirement.

      ...and that would be...?

      On a side note:

      One can't help but wonder why he's spoken out. All he's done is drawn attention to his collection, which can and probably will be persued.

      Assuming his entire collection is DRM free, with no obvious evidence he torrenting it all (ie it's all legit), then what was stopping him ...*cough*..."accidentally leaving it on an external hard drive" once he had croaked?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        alternative which supports your legacy requirement

        TPB. They don't have that clause in their "license agreement"

      2. The BigYin


        Best option - buy the CD/DVD and rip/convert it yourself.

        If I download a movie, can I pass that copy on to my progeny? Will Mr. Willis happily give up his share of the re-purchase price of the digital media in perpetuity?

        The digital download scam, whilst convenient, is just that; a scam. Buy the original media and DIY.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: @silverburn

          There *is* a problem here, your solution is to rely on a loophole using legacy media. CD's already don't exist for some music and likely won't exist much at all in ten years. Perhaps you should applaud him for taking this issue on?

          1. The BigYin

            Re: @silverburn

            @AC 12:50 Perhpaps. But if something is not available in a format I want, you know what I do? Don't consume. I don't agree to a license, but it and then moan after the fact.

            If enough folks did that, basic market forces would solve the problem. Some places already play fair (e.g., Jamendo, Magnatune), so why can't the big-boys?

            1. Thorne

              Re: @silverburn

              "@AC 12:50 Perhpaps. But if something is not available in a format I want, you know what I do? Don't consume. I don't agree to a license, but it and then moan after the fact."

              Or be like the other 90% of the population and just pirate it

        2. Marty

          not allowed

          "Best option - buy the CD/DVD and rip/convert it yourself."

          In the USA, If you have to circumvent any copy protection or region coding of a DVD/blueray or CD then you are in breach of the DMCA..... your not allowed.... and because its not allwed in the USA the music and film industry think its applicable here in th UK to.

      3. Tom Chiverton 1

        "ou went with an alternative which supports your legacy requirement.

        ...and that would be...?"

        Amazon MP3

        1. Mark .

          Indeed, and more generally, there are absolutely loads of places to buy DRM-free mp3s, and has been for years now. All the mainstream stores that sell music also seem to offer mp3s online. If people want to give their money to late-to-the-party patent trolls who have crappy terms and conditions, more fool them.

          1. Anonymous Coward

            @Mark .

            You're the one being a troll here. iTunes is DRM free.

            Other stores have the same or worse restrictions. For example Amazon MP3 won't even let you re-download the songs you purchased (lost your file? buy again. music file on computer back home? buy again). This is much worse than iTunes.

      4. Shaun 1

        RE: ...and that would be...?

        A CD

    3. Anonymous Coward

      Another BS story from the Daily (M|F)ail

      This is a bullshit story yet again from our dear Daily Fail. Willis' wife has denied the whole thing.

      iTunes music T&Cs don't actually impose any restriction on transfer of ownership. Just shows how the media didn't even read them and just parroted the story (with few exceptions).

      Shame on the commenters who fell for this too.

    4. Piro


      See, if he just bought them from Amazon MP3, or bought them on CD, he wouldn't have a problem. DRM free files not tied to any accounts, to do with as you please.

      Why anyone would pour money into iTunes is beyond me.

      1. TheFifth


        Let's not let the facts get in the way of a good bit of Apple hating hey? iTunes have actually been offering DRM free music since May 2007 (initially with EMI content). The Amazon MP3 store wasn't even in beta until September 2007 and didn't open fully until 2008.

        I'm no Apple fan boy, but the fact is that Apple were fighting for DRM free music for a long time and it was the record companies that resisted. Most of these restrictive license agreements on music in the iTunes store are not put there by Apple, but by the record companies, and any online store you purchase from will have very similar agreements.

        iTunes music is DRM free, it's one of the only stores to allow you to redownload your purchased content to any of your devices, so if you're on holiday and really want a song on your iPod that you left at home, you can redownload it. You can't do this with Amazon or any other store I've used. Also, with services like iTunes Match, that allows you to sync all of your music to the cloud and download anywhere (even tracks you haven't purchased from iTunes, or have ripped yourself), it strikes me that Apple are trying harder than anyone to negotiate fairer music licensing with the 'stuck in their ways' record industry.

  2. Marvin O'Gravel Balloon Face

    Apple Schmapple

    Somebody gave me an iPod touch a couple of weeks ago. Fancy thing with a big touch-screen, I was pretty chuffed.

    I have a large music library on an external hard drive, I've been working in IT for twelve or so years, so didn't feel intimidated by the idea of copying some mp3 files to it.

    After three days of farting about with iTunes I was about ready to throw the thing against the wall.

    1. Steve I

      Re: Apple Schmapple

      What do you do in IT - make the tea for the techies?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Apple Schmapple

        Probably does password resets or some Windows admin.

        Life is about learning to do things, no matter how difficult or counter-intuitive they are. If you're not challenged or having to work things out then you're treading water, your brain will shrivel.

        Challenge yourself to solve something once in a while. It gives you immense satisfaction when you solve it too.

        1. Dr. Mouse

          Re: Apple Schmapple

          I have to say, I have only ever used iTunes once. This was when my fiance had put some music from my server onto her iPhone before I had organised it, so it needed re-adding once I placed the files in the correct place. Although it took took me longer than I would expect for such a simple task, this was only because I had never used it before, and even so I had it done in 10mins.

          So I must ask: how can people who "work in IT" take so long to sort this out?

          I will refrain from posting the answer I expect, as I am likely to offend...

          1. Mike Flugennock

            Re: Apple Schmapple

            So I must ask: how can people who "work in IT" take so long to sort this out?

            Well, I technically don't work in IT, but I do have a couple of decades or so of experience with computers and networks in the context of graphic design shops as a senior designer and "resident geek".

            Despite this, I never could learn to program a VCR properly, and to this day still struggle with microwave ovens. Sadly, I've got no experience with iPods, and use iTunes primarily to create playilsts for my music collection which sits on a local hard drive, and sure as hell don't use it to buy copies of albums. The most involved thing I've ever done with iTunes is to build LittleSnitch rule sets which keep it from accessing the Internet every time I insert a CD to rip while still allowing it to get on the 'Net for the grand total of two (2) radio station streams.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Apple Schmapple

            Maybe he was previously used to things that "just work" :P

        2. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

          Re: Apple Schmapple

          Nice ad-hom you've got going there.

          Life may be about learning to do things, but software design should definitely be about makig things as easy and intuitive as possible. As a professional software developer, I am frequently appalled by how little these basic principles are followed by some companies.

          iTunes is a prima facie example of poor software design; it is not designed to make things easy for the user, it is designed to make certain things hard, such as taking control of your own music collection. This is clearly intentional, and a business-driven decision. Apple can more than afford to employ some developers with a knowledge of user interface design, that iTunes is designed to work the way it does tells us as much about Apple as a company as we need to know, and, to me, is evidence enough that they should be avoided.

          1. Matt Bryant Silver badge

            Re: Re: Apple Schmapple

            ".....but software design should definitely be about makig things as easy and intuitive as possible....." I had a great laugh recently with a fanboi that was bleating on about the brand new iPad he'd just rushed out to buy at lunchtime. He had all the marketing phrases down pat - "retina screen", blah, blah, blah - but was completely stumped when I asked him if he knew how to turn the volume up or down. It took him a god ten minutes of looking through all the settings menus to work out it was a rocker switch on the side!

          2. Lallabalalla

            Re: Apple Schmapple

            I've been using iTunes for 3-odd years now on windows and mac, and having breasted the learning curve (there is one, though it's fairly small) I find it to be far and away the easiest and best library/music organiser I've ever come across. with it I can buy, download or rip music, convert tracks to and from aac & mp3 in a variety of bitrates etc, burn discs, copy, rename, delete or move files, handle tags and find stuff in an instant. I have upwards of 8,500 tracks so, what I'd call a medium-sized collection. Runs like a rocket on iMac. Bit slow on windows, but who cares anyway?

            WTF is up with anyone who can't use something so featured, yet simple to operate?

        3. Mark .

          Re: Apple Schmapple

          If the UI on something as simple as a music player is a life challenge, something's wrong.

          Especially if Apple fanatics want to claim Apple are good at UIs!

      2. Matt Bryant Silver badge

        Re: Re: Apple Schmapple

        "What do you do in IT - make the tea for the techies?" Well, seeing as Apple products just aren't used in real IT, I'd suggest it is you that doesn't actually work in a real IT role.

        1. Anonymous Coward

          @Matt Bryant

          "Well, seeing as Apple products just aren't used in real IT"

          Hahah yeah, just used by NASA Mission Control.

          Real IT for you probably means playing Minesweeper. Unfortunately OSX doesn't come with that.

        2. Steve I
          Paris Hilton

          Re: Apple Schmapple

          "I'd suggest it is you that doesn't actually work in a real IT role"

          hahahahhahahahahahahahahhahahahahhahaha... (breath) - Jeez, don't even begin to ask for my CV.

          Not sure where you got the idea that the iTunes in question was being used in a work environment, but seriously - unable to even use iTunes?

      3. Marvin O'Gravel Balloon Face

        Re: Apple Schmapple

        Mostly application development, business and systems analysis, and a bit of server administration.

        And yes, it is possible to install iTunes and point it at a large existing music collection located on a samba share mapped to an external hard disk on a home server. It does (eventually) sync. You can remap things after it loses setting at the drop of a packet. You might even get used to thinking about, and interacting with, files and folders in a way that Apple has decided is best for you.

        I just don't know why you'd want to do that to yourself.

        In my case, I found the whole experience totally frustrating and ended up installing one of the third party apps available from cnet or similar.

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. Archibald Trumpetbeetle

      Re: Apple Schmapple

      Get rockbox

      1. J 3

        Rockbox? Re: Apple Schmapple

        I envy people who can type faster than they can think...

        Have you seen the original post? It says iPod Touch. Ever considered that it is a hard to support device, given Apple's son-of-a-bitchery encryption that gets changed all the time just to screw third party coders (like the libgtkpod guys)? Rockbox's late 1990s-looking website does not even list the Touch in its device page. Their iPod FAQ page says that a crapload of iPod models (including the Touch) are not supported.

        And that is why I had to boot into the Win7 that came with my "netbook" and install iTunes (shudder) in order to initialize the Touch and load all my music into it. Problem is that I now have more music and need to go there again to add it to the thing... Programs currently distributed with Ubuntu are almost there in the support for the new devices; I can read the iPod, for now, and can almost delete songs -- they are still listed in the internal DB, but don't play anymore, but no adding songs yet.

        1. DF118

          Re: Rockbox? Apple Schmapple

          Hence my recommendation of Sharepod first and foremost. Even if Rockbox does support the iPod Touch (something I can't be bothered checking) its UI is, ahem, an acquired taste. Definitely suited to those of a more masochistic bent.

        2. Lallabalalla

          Re: Rockbox? Apple Schmapple

          If you don't wan to use iTunes use MediaMonkey.

          Or, get a cheap mp3 player and get over yourself.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Apple Schmapple

      Same here. I remember the horror of spending a whole day trying to work a gen 1 (or 2?) Ipod. Never looked at one since then!

      1. petur
        Thumb Up

        Re: Apple Schmapple

        Those ipods can run rockbox :)

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Apple Schmapple

      1. Create playlist.

      2. Add songs to playlist.

      3. Connect device to computer.

      4. Choose to sync playlist to device.

      5. Sync.

      Is that so hard?

      1. davemcwish
        Paris Hilton

        Re: Apple Schmapple

        Surely creating playlists are optional, I just drag & drop mine then sync the lot.

        PARIS: I could even teach her to do it.

      2. Captain Scarlet Silver badge

        Re: Apple Schmapple

        1. Shove in Media Card

        2. Copy MP3 files

        3. Paste MP3 files

        4. Shove out Media Card

        5. Shove in Media Card

        Well my argument for its easier is out of the window so I'll attack with "Never saw why people wanted software to arrange it in a way they didn't like"

        Re: Apple Schmapple

        1. Create playlist.

        2. Add songs to playlist.

        3. Connect device to computer.

        4. Choose to sync playlist to device.

        5. Sync.

        Is that so hard?

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Apple Schmapple

        1. Create playlist.

        2. Add songs to playlist.

        3. Connect device to computer.

        4. Choose to sync playlist to device.

        5. Sync.

        alternatively, don't use an Apple device...

        1. Connect device to computer.

        2. Drag n drop files


      4. Steve I
        Thumb Up

        Re: Apple Schmapple

        and you don't have to create a playlist, either.

        1. BristolBachelor Gold badge

          @Steve 1

          " and you don't have to create a playlist, either."

          I tried it on my 1st gen ipod without creating a playlist. It spent about half an hour copying before telling me it failed because it didn't fit. I wonder why it didn't check that it would fit before wasting half am hour trying, but never mind. It seems I had to create a playlist to say what I wanted copied (or at least, that was by far the easiest method)

          A bit later when I tried to chage what I had on it, I was told that my itunes was too old. I theb went through untold downloads/installs/reboots before deciding that I couldn't get it to work and giving up. On the way, quicktime (which seems to be an essential component of copying files over USB) broke the codec for. mov files, and since then I haven't even wbeen able to play them with Canon's own software.

          In my opinion, the ipod touch is a marvelous product, but itunes rates worse than Adobe flash on my list of worst ever software :-/

          1. MrZoolook
            Paris Hilton

            Re: @Steve 1

            I don't use i* devices/software because as good as they are, I refuse to support a bunch of lying cheating fuckheads the likes they have become!

            On the flip side, you could try WinAMP, which can play virtually anything you care to throw at it, and supports i* devices as standard with the newer versions. Even older versions can be upgraded with i* support via this plugin -

            I'm not saying that it will work flawlessly as I don't have devices I can test it with. That said, good luck!

            Paris because, she too is a fuckhead!

      5. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Apple Schmapple

        I buy albums, I rip my CD's as albums, I want to listen to ALBUMS.

        Fuck playlists!

        1. BoldMan

          Re: Apple Schmapple

          Playlists = albums

          1) Buy CD

          2) Rip to PC using MediaMonkey

          3) Open iTunes

          4) drag and drop folder created by MediaMonkey onto the word "Playlists" in the left menu of iTumes

          5) Rename playlist to something more informative than just album name

          8) sync to iPod


          1. Frank Bough

            Re: Apple Schmapple

            1. Buy CD

            2. Rip to Apple Lossless in iTunes

            3. There is no step three, my iPhone automatically syncs every time I drop it on a charger over wi-fi.

        2. Mike Flugennock

          Re: Apple Schmapple

          Well, part of me wants to downvote that post, except I'm also one of those old-skool geezers who still listens to whole albums from start to finish, especially stuff like Quadrophenia or The Wall, which really were designed to be taken in in one sitting, like an opera or a film; the individual songs stand well on their own, but they're still best enjoyed in context.

          On the other hand, though, since I first got hold of iTunes and started ripping my album and live bootleg collections about six or seven years ago, I got to be a real "playlist" kind of guy, as I'm just old enough to have gotten in on the tail end of the "mixtape" era. In fact, a lot of the playlists I build in iTunes are done with the same approach I took toward mixtapes twenty years ago, except now with an eye (and an ear) toward "mixes" that fit within the 75-80 minute constraints of a CD.

    6. Fihart

      Re: Apple Schmapple

      Itunes is a mess because it's designed to stop you sharing music files -- presumably the price Apple paid for getting the record companies on board the iTunes site.

      Far simpler to use a player which supports drag and drop and rip your own CDs (between 50p and £3 in flea markets, charity shops).

      1. Franklin

        Re: Apple Schmapple

        "Itunes is a mess because it's designed to stop you sharing music files -- presumably the price Apple paid for getting the record companies on board the iTunes site."


        I've always been a bit baffled about why folks find iTunes so hard to use. I've found it quite easy:

        Launch iTunes.

        Click on your folder chock full o' MP3 goodness.

        Hold down the mouse button and drag your MP3 folder into the iTunes window, where they'll all be imported into iTunes. You can, if you like, tell iTunes to leave the MP3 files where they are, or have it make copies of them and stash the copies in its own library. Your choice.

        Click Sync.

        Sit back and sip tea while your MP3 files zip over the USB cable onto your iPod.

        It doesn't stop you from sharing them; they're still there, sitting on your hard drive, ready to be shared any way you like. It doesn't prevent you from using them with other devices. I'm flummoxed; what is it that makes iTunes so difficult?

        1. Peter Johnstone

          Re: Apple Schmapple

          It's even easier than that, you can just drag the CD onto the iPod icon in iTunes and it will rip the CD straight onto your iPod. No need to create playlists or import to iTunes first.

          1. Lallabalalla
            Thumb Up

            Re: Apple Schmapple - Peter Johnstone

            Great tip, must try that :)

            Though I'd want a copy on the HDD anyway... in case I wanted to share it....

        2. Fihart

          Re: Apple Schmapple

          Itunes is probably okay if you use it fairly often, and more so if you are a Mac user. Personally, I have a Windows mindset and find the minimalism just too inscrutable. Though I have an iPod I seldom use it, preferring a newer Sony player which can be loaded without any special software on the computer.

    7. EvilGav 1

      Re: Apple Schmapple

      To all the haters because the OP mentioned he works in IT.

      I too work in the industry, as a programmer and occasionally as an analyst, having had the misfortune to use iTunes on occasion I can understand the frustration - I found it to be an annoying incomprehensible pile of crap, that refused to let go control. To be honest, I can say much the same about Windows Media Player as well, although that doesn't try quite so hard to force me to use it's ecosystem.

      Working in IT, I also have many friends who work in the industry, some of whom are Apple afficianados, some aren't. More than one have at times complained about iTunes and their Apple kit, most noticably the horrendous time it takes to sync your collection to the cloud (several days, according to the few people I know who've tried it with large collections).

      What Apple got right, was the UI on the iPod - beyond that I cant give them any credit, since the software required on your PC is attrocious.

      1. joejack

        Re: Apple Schmapple

        "What Apple got right, was the UI on the iPod - beyond that I cant give them any credit, since the software required on your PC is attrocious."

        Mostly. But fails at the same thing iTunes does: inability to browse by folder/filename. Every 3rd party mp3 player or droid app I've had gets that part right.

        1. Frank Bough

          Re: Apple Schmapple

          Yeah, why use metadata when you can just ignore it altogether?

          1. Mr_Bungle
            Thumb Down

            Re: Apple Schmapple

            Rambling Apple nerd. Why use just one post when you can make 3!

      2. Frank Bough

        Re: Apple Schmapple

        iTunes organises music like this: artist/album/song. If you can't deal with this I'd suggest you have a learning disability. ID3 is metadata. The iTunes app uses this metadata to allow more sophisticated organisation of your media files. It's less complex in use than a basic email client, why do people have problems with it?

      3. Snafu 2

        Re: Apple Schmapple

        "What Apple got right, was the UI on the iPod - beyond that I cant give them any credit, since the software required on your PC is attrocious."

        To be fair, a PC is/was designed to do a lot of things, sometimes simultaneously. An Ipod is/was designed to do only 1 thing: play media. Obviously the UI (& underlying OS) will have some differences

        I don't disagree with your general point though: Itunes is terrible in UI, OS interface & general usability for those not using it on a mobile device (ie synching it with a server or similar). I hope it dies an ugly but quick death (painful would be an add-on option, payable for $ at your locall Appstore(TM))

      4. MrZoolook
        Paris Hilton

        Re: Apple Schmapple

        Quote: What Apple got right, was the UI on the iPod - beyond that I cant give them any credit, since the software required on your PC is attrocious.

        Fixed: What Apple got right, was the UI on the iPod - beyond that I can't give them any credit, since they stole all the other design specs from other developers.

        Paris because, she's compatible with most hardware and software!

      5. Steve I

        Re: Apple Schmapple

        "To all the haters because the OP mentioned he works in IT."

        No hate - just taking the piss. IT literate but cannot sync iPod via iTunes? What about all these people who want to manually sync? WTF would you want to do that? Set up some smart playlists - 'anything added recently', 'my 5* tracks', 'stuff I've not heard for a while' - set some sensible limits - 1Gb of this, 5Gb of that - and you're sorted. You only need to do this once, then with wi-fi sync you usually don't need to touch it on a daily basis, yet still have new stuff to listen to every day.

        I drag mp3/mp4 files onto the iTunes icon and next thing I know they're on my iPod/iPhone. And as for manually putting them into artist/album folders - why would I want to do that when iTunes does it for me?

        Sounds like the guy a few weeks ago who claimed that despite *..building his own PCs and coding a few websites", even he couldn't get a job in IT. It's like complaining you can't get a job as an F1 driver despite having owned 2 cars and every copy of Gran Turismo.

    8. DF118

      Re: Apple Schmapple

      Sharepod - tiny executable, portable. Never touch iTunes again.

      Or, as has already been suggested, Rockbox. If you really wanna geek out/feel superior. Mind you, the geeking out part is debatable these days since they moved to a pretty much one-click installer.

    9. gujiguju

      Re: Apple Schmapple

      If you had one more year of "working in IT", you would have known to look inside this top-secret, hidden dialog box in iTunes called "Preferences" or "Options."

      Inside, you will see two confusing (almost invisible) checkboxes:

      o Manage music files manually

      o Sync over WIFI

      I'll let you figure out how those cryptic settings will work. (Your decade of "working in IT" should serve you well here...finally.)

      And don't tell anyone about these iTunes settings. Very hush hush.

      As to Bruce Willis' "issue", all his mp4/AAC files are DRM-free. I'm certain his lawyer didn't point that out before asking for his retainer-fee payment.

      1. Lallabalalla

        Re: Apple Schmapple - gujiguju

        FFS don't tell him about "Keep iTunes Media Folder Organised" or "Copy files to iTunes Media folder when adding to library".

        His brain will exoplode. Messy.

    10. Mark .

      Re: Apple Schmapple

      It's also a pain to play files on another computer - even if you're willing to install Itunes, it's unclear whether doing so will "sync" with the new computer, which you don't want to happen. I've asked Apple users this, and they don't know the answer. So you're left with looking at the files directly, but they're all scrambled by Apple. Hopeless! It was quicker to simply download the files illegal!

      On my Sansa, it just mounts as an external drive, the files are unscrambled, and it Just Works.

    11. Eguro

      Re: Apple Schmapple

      When I first got an Ipod - '06 I believe - I fiddled with Itunes for a bit. It was, at that time at least, very eager to convert all my music to a new format and put it on the Ipod.

      It was also being generally annoying - again at the time - wanting to start @ boot and all sorts of stuff that I could not agree to.

      2 after acquiring my Ipod, I found that Winamp had decent functionality for throwing Mp3s on my Ipod, and I've never looked back (technically, I've just looked back, but you know)

      DISCLAIMER: My Ipod is old. This might not work with newer models, and also Itunes might not be horrifyingly annoying any more

    12. Lallabalalla

      Re: Apple Schmapple

      you don't happen to work for BT Broadband, do you?

    13. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Apple Schmapple

      Just get a SANSA Clip (at a fraction of the price) and its as easy as drag+drop files. And then with the money you've saved you can go and buy something else worthwhile.

  3. FartingHippo

    Is that the sound....

    ....of a million pennies dropping all at once?

    "What do you mean it's not my music?"

    1. Psyx
      Thumb Up

      Re: Is that the sound....

      Hopefully Brucey's point will get some media attention, and people might start thinking about these things.

    2. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      Re: Is that the sound....

      No. I don't think it is.

      For millions of normal folk, Apple will *not* be checking the death registration records in every jurisdiction and pre-emptively disabling those accounts. Therefore, as long as you leave your account name and password to your chosen inheritor, the whole thing will carry on working.

      Besides, what child actually wants to be able to listen to their parents' music collection?

      1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

        Re: Is that the sound....

        Also, by the time that most of us die, our music collections will be out of copyright.

        1. dotdavid

          Re: Is that the sound....

          "Also, by the time that most of us die, our music collections will be out of copyright."

          Oh the naivity ;-)

          They'll just change the law so copyright is death-of-the-artist + 1000 years or something.

          1. Gordon 11

            Re: Is that the sound....

            They'll just change the law so copyright is death-of-the-artist + 1000 years or something.

            Perhaps they'll do the same thing for the iTunes account, then. So as to be fair.

            Oh, wait - what does fairness have to do with Apple?

        2. Naughtyhorse

          Re: Is that the sound....

          Also, by the time that most of us die, our music collections will be out of copyright.

          but by then someone <cough crapple cough> will have prolly patented out of copyright music.

          and the uspto will let them

        3. Psyx

          Re: Is that the sound....

          "Also, by the time that most of us die, our music collections will be out of copyright."

          And you think that'll stop Apple suing?

          Sod suing: By that time they'll have a white-attired kill-team they can legally send knocking.

      2. dogged

        Re: Is that the sound....

        Besides, what child actually wants to be able to listen to their parents' music collection?

        My old man left his awesome Motown/Northern Soul collection. Just because YOUR parents have shit taste..

        1. bonkers

          Re: Is that the sound....

          totally agree, I've got a pile of original stones and beatles, some are even in mono.

          should the other parents be having "shit taste" or "shite taste"?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Inherited Music

            Spot on. My kids have already fought over my unplayed copy of Sgt Pepper (Mono). I got two copies for my Birthday. I only ever played the Stereo version coz it's better innit...

            I also have a bunch of signed Album covers from between 1967 & 1975. They are worth quite a bit.

            That is a proper musical inheritance. None of thie compressed MP3 rubbish.

            1. Frank Bough

              Re: Inherited Music

              Mono vinyl "better" than MP3? Demonstrably untrue.

          2. hplasm

            Re:Re: Is that the sound....

            It depends whether the music they listen(ed) to is shit or shite.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Is that the sound....

          "My old man left his awesome Motown/Northern Soul collection" ... to BitTorrent

          Problem solved

      3. Michael H.F. Wilkinson

        Re: Is that the sound....

        "Besides, what child actually wants to be able to listen to their parents' music collection?"

        It is all a matter of indoctrination: I've got my kids headbanging to "Smoke on the Water", so now they are looking up other Deep Purple stuff on the web.

        1. Psyx

          Re: Is that the sound....

          "It is all a matter of indoctrination: I've got my kids headbanging to "Smoke on the Water", so now they are looking up other Deep Purple stuff on the web."

          Uh-huh. Suuuuuure.

          You realise that when they say they're looking at some Deep Purple, that's their code for porn, right?

      4. Shaun 1

        Re: Is that the sound....

        "what child actually wants to be able to listen to their parents' music collection?"

        I have a very similar taste in music to my parents, so Me

      5. Mike Flugennock

        Re: Is that the sound....

        Besides, what child actually wants to be able to listen to their parents' music collection?

        Well, normally I'm into '60s and '70s psyche/prog/hard rock, but there are a bunch of old Miles Davis, Dave Brubeck and Wes Montgomery LPs in my late father's collection which are still in good shape and which I'd love to rip if only I had the time and resources.

      6. Peter Johnstone

        Re: Is that the sound....

        "Besides, what child actually wants to be able to listen to their parents' music collection?"

        My 5 year old daughter and 7 year old son were singing along to Let's Lynch the Landlord (Dead Kennedys) the other day in the car and both asked to hear "All the small things (Blink 182)".

        My elder son (19) and I listen to each others music all the time, I've introduced him to Rush, Led Zeppelin and Helloween. He's got me listening to Lucca Turilli and Nightwish.

        Maybe I'm just cooler than her average dad :-)

    3. Annihilator Silver badge

      Re: Is that the sound....

      "What do you mean it's not my music?"

      Simple, just explain to Apple that the money you spent on it was never their's, you were just licensing the money to them.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    This is exactly why...

    ..I don't want software/music/video as a service or hosted, or cloud or whateverthebloodyhellitisthisweek.

    they know you are f**ked when it comes to the 2nd hand market and if you wan't it, you'll just have to pay all over again...

    1. ElNumbre
      Big Brother

      Re: This is exactly why...

      And its exactly why I rent from Spotify. At least they're upfront about it being a rental rather than a purchase service. For instance, would I rather spend a couple of pence in rental fee's (the £10 subby charge divided by the hundreds of songs I listen to every month) or the 79p or whatever the charge is to licence a single track in perpituity*. Especially if its a top 40 hit that will be forgotten in two months anyway, I'll take the short term rental option, thankyou very much.

      And if one of the more modern artists comes up with something historic, then I will consider buying a DRM-free digital download. Whilst the licence may be revocable in some future time, the chances are that "the man" won't be able to do anything about the file because it will have been illegally copied onto multiple devices for my listening pleasure.

      *In perpituity (until we fall out with the artists and decide to delete the track from existance).

  5. Select * From Handle

    That moment when....

    You find out that iTunes has you by the balls and is a money printing machine.

    GL Mr Willis...

  6. Anonymous Coward

    Just rip e'm to MP3's, that's what I do with all my iTunes stuff...

    I had my fingers burned when Virgin Digital closed down, now I always make sure I have a portable "backup".

    1. Silverburn

      Why bother? It's all DRM free these days anyway.

      1. Anonymous Coward

        I Guess...

        Old Habits, err, Die Hard...

    2. Silverburn
      Thumb Up

      No need to rip - it's all DRM-free these days. Just stick on some external media as planned, and you're away.

  7. Neil Bradley

    I imagine it would be the record labels that would need to agree to lifting this 'restriction' on purchased music in order for Apple to make it an option for customers to transfer ownership.

  8. ukgnome

    No wonder piracy is killing music (ahem)

    1. Alex C

      piracy killing music...

      I saw a great t-shirt the other day.

      It said "Piracy isn't killing music. Simon Cowell is."

      1. Peter Johnstone
        Thumb Up

        Re: piracy killing music...

        @Alexc I want one!

  9. Alex King

    Thanks dad, but....

    I think that, given the names their dear old dad has so generously passed down to them, Rumer, Scout and Tallulah may be better off without any further inheritaces.

    (Over and above the stupendous amounts of cash they'll inherit, naturally)

    1. Chris Whatmore

      Re: Thanks dad, but....

      Plus, wouldn't they be the first children in history to actually WANT their Dad's iTunes library?

      1. jacobbe

        Re: Thanks dad, but....

        Yes but most people's dad is not Bruce willis with 40,000 itunes music files. I would not prejudge Mr Willis's musical tastes, but with 40k tunes, there has got to be some good music in that Library....

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Similarly, ...

    What about purchased software and Amazon ebooks?

    The iTunes thing doesn't bother me as I won't ever go near it, but I wonder how inheritance works with respect to software (which we keep getting told we're merely licensing) and Amazon ebooks (which are controlled to a certain extent).

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    You don't own music

    It isn't yours, you are just allowed to listen to it. If it was yours then you could copy it and sell those copies to people.

    Just because you can do something with a CD copy (like duplicate it) doesn't mean what you are doing is legal.

    All that has happened is with systems like iTunes is you have been forced to comply with the licence.

    If you don't like the licence then go shop elsewhere.

    1. Annihilator Silver badge
      Thumb Down

      Re: You don't own music

      Maybe, but you own the medium it comes on. So the CD that I bought is an asset that I am free to give or sell to whomever I choose. By the same logic, the digital file from iTunes should work in the same manner.

      "Copying" didn't even come into the argument, so not sure why you've brought that up.

      If iTunes content is truly just "licensed" then why on earth would anyone buy a "licensed" copy instead of buying a CD for the (pretty much) the same price?

      1. rh587 Silver badge

        Re: You don't own music

        Quite. Valve let you do this on the Steam platform - you're entirely at liberty to gift games to other users. You can't play any more but your friend can. Of course if Steam goes bump then no one can play (unless they released patches to allow all software to run without calling home and authenticating), but they are at least addressing the matter of ownership, and the fact I can gift a physical disk to someone, so why not a license?

        1. Charles 9 Silver badge

          Re: You don't own music

          You can't gift-wrap a game you've already played. If you buy for yourself, you can't gift it later, you have to buy it AS A GIFT. That said, some court precedents indicate that a license is itself a salable good and therefore subject to the exhaustion principle. Vernor v. Autodesk in 2008 showed a tantalizing hint but was derailed when it was discovered the copies in question were stolen (not pirated but REALLY physically stolen). Willis is probably the first prominent figure since then to stir up the license exhaustion debate.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: You don't own music

          "Valve let you do this on the Steam platform"

          No they don't.

          You can buy a game as a gift, or in certain rare circumstances if you buy a bundle you can gift any duplicates you have.

          But you cannot gift a game you have bought for yourself.

    2. Mike Flugennock

      Re: You don't own music

      Oh, I never said I owned the actual music, but I do own the copy of the recording I paid for. I'm not "stealing" anything by making copies to keep on my hard drive to listen to at home or in the car in order to preserve the original media as an archival "master" in good condition.

      This is basically what I did many, many years ago, in the days of vinyl and cassettes... whenever I bought a new LP, I'd make a dub onto chrome oxide cassette to listen to around the house and in my car. No "stealing" involved there, either.

      Shill much?

  12. Trollslayer Silver badge

    Godo for him

    Our rights are slowly eroded on the basis that little people can't fight back, we need big names to stand up at times.

    I play my media through XBMC so have ripped discs I BOUGHT AND PAID FOR but this 'Cinavia' thing will try to kill that off.

    I can get around it but many people can't. How long until the film industry find a way to disable playback of discs themselves through some key revocation and use that to limit how long you can use a disc?

    1. Vladimir Plouzhnikov

      Re: Godo for him

      "How long until the film industry find a way to disable playback of discs themselves through some key revocation...?"

      That has already happened. It's a part of BluRay specifications.

      1. Charles 9 Silver badge

        Re: Godo for him

        That involves the PLAYERS. Individual disc authentication was part of the original DivX disc specification. This allowed for buying a rental disc that then expired after the rental time. Neither this nor a competing spec (which had a clock-reaction dye that rendered the disc useless after about 48 hours) worked out (The only part of DivX that survives was the MPEG-4 codec line it used--still used but superseded by the Part 10 variant AVC). I think Sony TRIED the trick early in the PS3 days but backed down after some noisy protests.

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

        2. Vladimir Plouzhnikov

          @Charles 9 Re: Godo for him

          Not only the players. Content as well.

          AACS pre-recorded video book (which is a part of BluRay pre-recorded book) describes how it works:

          See Chapter 2 for the relevant bits:

          "This chapter describes a robust mechanism whereby content on individual media can be revoked to prevent playback of unauthorized content. This is accomplished by applying cryptographic signatures to authorized content and storing those signatures on the media with the content. The signature is validated before allowing playback. A Content Revocation List (CRL) is also embedded onto media and then stored in non-volatile memory by players and contains a list of content that contains a valid signature but has since been revoked."

          1. Charles 9 Silver badge

            Re: @Charles 9 Godo for him

            That would probably involve invalidating titles rather than individual copies, as serializing would defeat the economy of scale pressing provides. Sure, you can serialize in the Burst Cutting Area or ROM-Mark, but how would you encrypt based on a serialized key and still be able to press?

            1. Vladimir Plouzhnikov

              Re: @Charles 9 Godo for him

              Yes, I think it's not possible to revoke an individual disc, even with that. But they can, say, expire the whole batch of Star Wars, Episode I super director's cut and force people to buy Star Wars, Episode I platinum exclusive remastered key grip's cut with previously unseen footage of paint drying during the construction of the soundstage.

  13. Nigel Brown

    You just cant beat 'backing up your tracks' to an external hard drive.

    That's what I would do if I had ever paid for any music, other than the RATM song that toppled X Fuctor.

  14. Tommy Pock

    I'm so glad

    ...that I grew up before the digital revolution, so I got to keep all of my mum's David Essex and Roy Orbison records

  15. DrXym Silver badge

    Maybe Bruce would have more luck

    If he publicly lobbies government or the industry to implement digital property imbued with the same rights of fair use as physical property, i.e. the right to sell, loan or donate property from one person to another.

    It's technically feasible to do this and it really needs to happen for healthy competition. Otherwise we'll continue to see the likes of Apple and Amazon choke the small businesses until they have an effective duopoly over what people may watch, read or hear.

  16. FlossyThePig


    Will iTunes still be around in thirty years time?

    How many people bought their music on CD thirty years ago? None as they didn't hit the market until 1983.

    Who knows what format audio and video will be in the future.

  17. Seanie Ryan


    I wonder does Bruce have the same attitude to the copyright laws protecting his movies? Is it ok for me to pass it on to people once I have watched it?

    Might get a different answer to that


  18. guybles

    Right, so, the news site that "Bites that hand that feeds IT" is now reprinting stuff it read in The Sun. Whatever next - Fortean Times? National Enquirer? The Watchtower? Honest John's Blog o' Ill-Informed Bile?

    IIRC, the standing argument about music ownership is that the various retailers were forced to apply DRM by the music industry. Maybe, if Mr Willis wanted to give a true "yippee-ki-yay Mr Falco", he might want to take on the RIAA and their industry mates and ask about why they only let him rent music.

    Meanwhile, all the major music retail sites are DRM-free, so you could happily leave your files to whosoever you wanted. Admittedly, if you bought old iTunes tracks, they still have the FairPlay DRM on them, but it's trivial to 'upgrade' and have that removed.

  19. JeffyPooh

    Apple iTunes "Sync" - I still don't get it...

    If one has a 32 GB iPhone and one has about 147 GB of media files, then the iTunes "Sync" function becomes a royal PITA; it's basically unusable and somewhat unpredictable (because one forgot to uncheck a box on the 5th menu from the left). A plain and simple Drag-and-Drop GUI concept would be about a trillion times easier to use.

    Not to mention about 500 times faster. iTunes Sync is the slowest possible way to load a file.

    Anyone that defends the iTunes UI concept should cut back on the Apple flavoured Kool-Aid.

  20. A J Stiles

    Interesting .....

    This case is going to be one to watch.

    Particularly if your beneficiaries have to pay tax on an inheritance that ends up being worthless to them .....

  21. CynicalOptimist

    obviously there is nothing stopping them copying the files - but clearly a man of great principle, our hero Bruce wants his wishes to be legally sound when declaring them on his last will and testament. Assuming he wins and is allowed to bequeath his digital music to his beloved daughters, they will then have to argue over who gets what. "Daddy would want me to have Angel by Robbie Williams" etc.

  22. EvilGav 1

    The more interesting point is with any children in the UK that have bought anything through iTunes - a child in the UK is not allowed to enter into a contract, without their parents consent, and even then there are various catches and trips.

    They most certainly are *not* allowed to enter a contract to licence something (anything) - which means any child using a prepaid iTunes card on their own account, has been illegally sold items by Apple . . .

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      no, it just means that they have handed over their money for nothing in return! Be careful trying to get technical, it has a habit of shooting yourself in the foot.

  23. spegru


    With Rhythmbox or Banshee on Linux Mint with the ipod plugins installed (automatically of course)

    Sync. Oh look now all you stuff is on your PC!

    Connect Android or any other decent MP3 device.

    Sync. Oh look all my music is on my new device!

    The trick here is to not use itunes!

    Yeah so there might be a problem syncing back to a recent iphone (4+) for now, until someone figures out the database checksum. But why the heck would you want to do that anyway after this experience?

  24. Mike Flugennock

    P'wah hah, sucker!

    That last crack about LPs may not be all sarcasm.

    One more argument for buying CDs and/or vinyl -- or at least storing your mp3's on a local hard drive and backing them up to CDs or DVD-R's.

  25. Toxcity

    Don't get tied down to Apple/Organise your own music library... PROBLEM SOLVED! :)

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Is it any different for vinyl and CDs?

    It's not practical for record labels to go into the houses of dead people and confiscate physical media (plus it's a grey area due to the separate ownership of the media and the data on it), but one of the downsides of the virtual world is that your collections can be tied up in direct or indirect content management systems that only give the illusion of you being in control of your own content. In a way, this does allow the record label or film studio to come into the house of a dead person and restrict what is taken from their computer.

    So, have things really ever been different, legally? Given that when you buy a vinyl record or CD, you're only 'buying' the plastic - the music contained on it is merely licensed to you, and is not transferable - it's probably always been unlawful for relatives to inherit records, it's just that there was no way to police it cheaply and effectively.

    Now they can. It's a shame big companies aren't so quick to use the virtual world to make things cheaper and more effective for you. For example, when someone dies, you still have to go around all the banks to search for bank accounts and money you didn't know about. Why can't solicitors just enter a name into some kind of search and find all relevant data instantly? Because it would mean less work for the banks and lower charges for solicitors, that's why...

    1. Vladimir Plouzhnikov

      Re: Is it any different for vinyl and CDs?

      "Given that when you buy a vinyl record or CD, you're only 'buying' the plastic - the music contained on it is merely licensed to you, and is not transferable"

      This is not so. Unauthorised copying, public performance, broadcasting, hiring or rental is prohibited. Selling the disc or giving it away is not.

    2. sandholme

      Re: Is it any different for vinyl and CDs?


      I thought that in the UK licences have to be written and have to have the ability to be modified by both sides, anything else is illegal so the contract is null and void. Hence the still dubious nature of click through licences which I don't believe have been tested in court. If it is void do they give your money back?

      Also recently a the European court said that licences can be sold regardless of the wishes of the vendor ( ) so if you have a licence to the Itunes software you can sell it / give it away. Of course you have to be European so Bruce may still have a problem.

  27. MikeyD85

    Hey kids,

    My password for iTunes is "Password1"...

  28. Jemma

    Brucey Bonus

    Thank you someone famous for finally making my point why Apple and the like are the epitome of evil.

    My grandfather pays for albums on Vinyl - the sane humans of that generation realise that he paid for them so he owns them. He passed them on to us (and my father sold them, but thats by the by) and no one batted an eyelid. If you buy something you buy it - to buy is not the same as "to buy until we feel otherwise".

    I buy music in electronic format from ReichTunes - but hey, paying more for effectively precisely the same thing, bar the fact its actually in a less resiliant format (bar physically smashing or mistreating Vinyl, tapes, CDs etc you are unlikely to lose it, unless you lose it). We all know how reliable electronic storage systems are (and how many people dont back up, dont back up properly, or find their backups have been cheesed by the law of sod). I lovingly maintain a collection for the next 70 years, pop my clogs, and the people I decide to pass things on to are told by my executors - "sorry you cant have that, she paid for it, but she doesnt *own* it, perish the thought luv. You'll be telling me you own your own organs next...". The really insidious part is that somewhere along the line it'll be, if we own the rights to this recording, then why not ALL the recordings of that song (because we're Apple) - and your CD's and the like will be ReichTunes fodder too.

    I am sick and tired of saying this fanbois of the world. Apple arent making their overpriced tat for your benefit, if they were they would be functional devices on a par with the Symbian E7 (it does alot more than even the iP4S, you'd be amazed). They are buying your 'buy-in' to the 'apple owns the world, you are just borrowing it' routine. They are buying your shiny-crap-blinded acceptance of the rape of your rights on a monumental scale. The number of people, to put this in perspective by bums on chairs (figuratively), that will be affected by this makes the whole Holocaust circa 33-45 look like a coffee morning (and no I mean the whole thing, not just the howling minority, who incidentally know less about their own history in general than they do about the operation of the common or garden ADO15 (look it up, you'll actually learn something on the way too))

    Do you want schools run by Apple?

    The history of the Second World War by Apple (The Japanese? Suing for peace via the Russians BEFORE they got nuked by the US, TWICE. Sorry I think you have that wrong little heretic, you are the weakest link - goodbye). Although to be fair snuff-weakest link would make a really good gameshow for CEO's (and Jedward)...

    Iranians/Muslims who cant own anything because Apple dont like them (theyre not allowed to like them because the government, that they effectively own, has told them they are bad little imps & sprites if they do).

    LGBT who arent allowed the Apple love because being a queer means you arent a Christian and we cant afford to alienate the swathes of room temperature IQ armchair GodBotherers(TM) who make up our customer base! Ironic really since that particular religious mindset has been borrowed, nicked, massaged, had rounded corners added, taken away and condemned as heresy (unless Apple has them of course) for a fair majority of the last 4000 years...

    Cr-Apple, let my people go!

    If it isnt stopped now by the people who have the power to do so, then it will get worse...

    Apple invent (the holy Apple copy-eth not, so says the almighty goatee in the sky) the Corvair and various people get wiped out in accidents, what do you think will happen?

    Apple will blame its supplier, pay off the government, promise an update that doesnt come every time it happens again, and take the sodding wreck back to boot on the basis that they own it anyway, bodies of your loved ones included (as well as their MP3 collections).

    And you used to tell me I was paranoid....

    ...sorry I have to end here, I need to find the user licence for my kidneys.... Heil Apple & goodnight Friends(TM)

    1. toadwarrior

      Re: Brucey Bonus

      So much stupid in one posting that it should be illegal.

      You do realise itunes has been drm free for sometime. Print you tunes and stick 'em up your ass if you like.

      1. Jemma

        Re: Brucey Bonus

        Yes and what has that to do with Apple steaming in and suing your kids before they've even had the time to put you in the ground.

        It doesnt matter whether there is DRM on there - anything bought through the iTunes store will be recorded on their servers - it wouldnt take a programming genius to interlace the government birth and death records with a process on iTunes - someone dies, and the next time that particular item is accessed - auto delete...

        Not to mention the price and stress for actually going through the courts over it all (even if you win) means 99% of people couldnt do it. So whether or not they're in the right - they win by default. Dont you just love justice and democracy?

  29. toadwarrior

    I never have problems using itunes when helping family but that's because I'm not making up porkies to troll nor am I some butt hurt help desk monkey that gets flustered when using software I hate.

    Any music Bruce bought that is DRM free from itunes can be given to anyone but for the drm stuff he'll have to burn it to cd or suck it up. It's not like you can give anything you buy digitally to someone else unless it's drm free.

    Can't wait to find out he has a steam account and watch him get butt hurt over that.

    1. Jemma

      You seem to be missing the point

      He 'BOUGHT' it.

      As in the verb 'to buy' from the Latin emere if you are interested (which I doubt).

      He did not 'rent' it

      He did not 'lease' it

      It was advertised as 'buy music from iTunes/Apple/whoever'

      For Cr-Apple to then state that they actually meant 'lease' is as I understand it false advertising which makes Apple Lawyers very happy right now (they must be rubbing their Gold Cards with glee), and what Apple are trying to do in the UK at least, pretty much illegal.

      A comparison. A car is priced at £25000 list so that is what you pay to take it out the door and own it for perpetuity if you so wish. A car is priced at £250PCM when you lease the identical model. The car company cannot however, if you buy the car outright for £25k as agreed in the ads, the brochure and sales agreement, then turn round and take that item from, or further charge, a person who inherits it (or for that matter buys) from you because that would be

      1. breaking the contract in the bill of sale. Outright purchase

      2. invalidates and makes false the advertising, prices and documentation associated. Illegal in the UK

      On the other hand if you were leasing the car on a permanant basis and you sold it, kicked the bucket and left it to someone or gifted it to someone *depending on the wording of the contract* you/they might still be liable.

      Similarly if Apple say to me, to *buy* this item you need to pay "xx" and I do then its mine and mine in perpetuity - for the simple reason that the representation that Apple made at the point of transaction was 'to buy' not 'to lease'. Theres a whole lot of legalese that floats around that but the upshot of all this is the iTunes store and others like it are a con trick - telling you that you are buying something outright and then having taken your money, quietly mentioning the bit buried at the bottom of the microscopic print that you dont own a thing, but this is the important part, AFTER THE FACT, which is the illegal bit (at least it is in the UK).

      After all if they were honest about it, 95% of people would see its throwing good money after bad (or sweet sod all in most cases) - and the 5% who dont probably arent bright enough to breed so the inheritance thing doesnt come into it.

      BBC put a limit on iPlayer as to how long a download will be playable for and how long it is up on the site... mainly so you'll forget that the thing you are watching is a re-run of a re-run... but the important thing is they dont charge for it because they know, under british consumer law, they'd be on such a sticky wicket they'd be at risk of being eaten alive by Winnie the Poo...

      1. C Ridley

        Re: You seem to be missing the point

        "To Buy" is rooted in Old English, so Germanic, not latin at all. Won't be reading the rest of your comment based on that alone.

  30. SolidSnake


    I am an Apple Products Fan...

    But.... iHATE iTUNES

  31. thekewpter

    mp3 from drm

    Tunebite efficiently converts drm music to mp3.

  32. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    All I can say is

    using Apple crap? Oh well....


  33. BongoJoe

    But it may be Music On The Go

    If he wants his music on the go, as it were, then he could have done something like I have.

    1. Rip everything to .flac format

    2. Install AudioGalaxy on home server

    3. Have same on client device, be it phone or whatever

    4. Drive along the beach at Black Rock Sands listening to your stuff

    or, if you're at home

    1. Find .flac file

    2. Play via foobar

    What could be so hard? And since I back up my stuff to external drives as well as other thing then Prodigal Son Of Mine can come out of the woodwork and be intreagued by his late father's fascination for things Rush.

    Furthermore, unlike Mr Willis, I don't need to dick about with iTunes nor m'Learned Friends.

  34. 0_Flybert_0

    what's being missed here .. is that JUST because the media has changed .. there is no reason that copyright law should change .. meaning ..

    if you BUY it. it is yours to copy for personal use and backup .. and that should include software as well

    "licencing" when you are in any reasonable context "purchasing" is a scam designed by lawyers to get around first-sale doctrine

    the practical benefits of digital media to the commercial side are enormous .. that ease of copying, and the low cost of doing so far outweigh the supposed "loss" of personal copying

    go after commercial counterfeiting and distribution like industry goes after all counterfeit products

    otherwise .. if I pay for something that's not a rental agreement .. it's a purchase .. the form of the media should not make a difference in the principles of copyright and the exceptions to it, such as fair use and first-sale doctrine

  35. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward


    If everyone lobbied Parliament to rein in totalitarian (cough RIAA/MusicMafia/PRS/etc /cough) DRM companies then this wouldn't be an issue.

    AC, because even Hell hath lawyers.

  36. gujiguju

    Hoax story

    Everyone just got duped by Samsung.

    1. Synonymous Howard

      Re: Hoax story

      Indeedy, at least Mac Rumors (sic) got their site updated thanks to this...

      Unless Mrs Willis's tweets are hoaxes ... deity forbid that you cannot trust either the gutter press or Twitter or even The Register.

  37. Christian Berger

    That's one of the reason you don't want DRM

    No matter how they call their DRM, no matter how nice they appear to be. As long as there's DRM, they will be in charge. And even if they don't want to be evil, a court order could just order them to make the files unplayable for you.

    So please Music and Movie industry, get rid of DRM. DRM is, for most of your potential customers, the main reason why they pirate.

  38. Anonymous Coward

    Apples response to Bruce was:

    EULAaaaa Mother ducker.

  39. toadwarrior

    It's fake

    Is there no low Fandroids will stoop to?

  40. Dropper

    CDs Violation

    CD's won't be around for long, they clearly violate a number of Apple patents. Apple didn't innovate four-cornered, square or rectangular shaped music-storing devices in order for everyone to steal it's designs.

    1. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: CDs Violation

      IIRC the Compact Disc was mostly an innovation of Phillips and Sony (they independently came up with similar tech then got together to iron out a common format), both rivals to Apple, so Apple can't claim CD patents as they'll be countered. In any event, the Compact Disc is around 30 years old. Patents on the tech should be expired by now.

  41. Mectron

    Sue Apple

    to the point of bankrupt PERIOD. What apple do is ILLEGAL ALL OVER THE WORLD. no amont of bribe from the MPAA/RIAA can change that. if i have a fews 1000's song in my itune collection, I HAVE THE RIGHT TO GIVE IT TO MY CHILDRENS (OR EVEN SELL IT TO WHOEVER I WANT) as long as i don't retain a copy.

    Apple need to go down on this (but hey, people, sheeple, Sony commited crimes on a global scale with it's rootkit virus and they still in business).

    Never EVER buy any enterteiment that you can;t remove the DRM virus from. TPB and other sources offert a far better product with NO ILLEGAL RESTRICTION at a price that Apple just can't match.

    1. Anonymous Coward

      Re: Sue Apple

      There is absolutely no DRM in iTunes music, stop being a troll.

  42. Sean Timarco Baggaley


    All my music tracks in iTunes are DRM-free. I can copy them to another computer and they'll play just fine.

    Methinks someone is protesting too much. (And as for the frothing, spittle-flecked commentards in this thread: seriously? iTunes' music has been DRM-free for [i]years[/i]. It's utterly trivial to move the files around. (And for those whining about iTunes' habit of moving files around: you do know you can switch that off in the preferences, right?)

    The Daily Mail has failed epically at basic fact-checking yet again. As, it seems, has The Register, which I thought was rather better at that sort of thing.

    1. Mark .

      Re: Weird.

      Only Apple could invent a system that doesn't have DRM, but still manages to be a right pain to use, locking you into atrocious software.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Weird.

        And ....

  43. doreilly

    Subscription Service

    Jeez, can't Bruce or his kids afford a subscription service.

  44. Peter Clarke 1

    Probable Outcome

    I can see this being settled out of court. I assume Bruce can afford to hire top class lawyers that would give Apple a run for their money and I'm sure they wouldn't want to set a precedent if they lost.

    1. MrZoolook
      Paris Hilton

      Re: Probable Outcome

      Quote: I assume Bruce can afford to hire top class lawyers that would give Apple a run for their money.

      No amount of lawmanship will change the fact that the MPAA and RIAA have ownership over the government, and when the gov change the laws specifically to thwart any loopholes that may allow licence transfers, who do you think the court will side with?

      Not least, this is Apple we're talking about, winners of a 1bn dollar lawsuit citing patents that have been issued retroactively for public domain and prior art. Proof positive right there how any Apple centric case is going to go down!

      Paris, because she's always going to go down!

      1. Charles 9 Silver badge

        Re: Probable Outcome

        That is unless Willis insists on a jury trial and the jury employs the principle of jury nullification. Unlike Samsumg, Willis is also American and a recognizable figure. Plus, he would be the plaintiff in such a case.

  45. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    News of the Screws

    Wow. The Reg didn't fall for the Apple screw story, but they fell for this one. On the other hand, some websites and papers are old-fashioned enough to check first.

    And the same old fan-war raged on, even below comments helpfully pointing out that the story isn't true.

    Red faces all round, then

  46. Jacqui

    Aging wanabee soul singer...

    tries to get some press - any press - so he can publicise his music!

    Sad - times must be hard if he is so hard up he is doing adverts for broadband - and I liked "secret agent man".


  47. welshman10

    iTunes is great software

    I can't believe how many people cannot get to grips with itunes. I have used it on windows for years and it's great as long as you follow a couple of SIMPLE rules.

    1) Choose to manage the library yourself - so you can maintain your own preferred folder structure for the mp3/AAC files.

    2) Ensure you have your tags set up correctly, then all sorting and organising will work perfectly.

    When you go to sync, on the music tab there are numerous options for transferring the music across. You can

    a) allocate a tick next to an artist, to have all of their music

    b) you can select albums on a one by one basis (they are conveniently listed by artist = easy to find the ones you want)

    c) create a manual playlist of the songs/albums/artists you want. You can create several of these and sync them all across in one hit

    d) the best is creating smart playlists, which are essentially a visual query from the database. eg i want all 4 or 5 star rated tracks that i haven't listened to in 6 months...I also want all music i have added in the last year...I also want all 5 star albums from the 1990s. By using a combination of smart playlists, you can dynamically sync your music within minutes knowing you have all your favourites and/or forgotten and/or new tunes automatically syncing in one hit.

    Personally, I use a combination of a, b, c, d above and find it really easy to sync the music I want to my devices without having to manually trawl through 60k songs.

    I also use a handful of smart playlists to create my own "radio station" of around 100 random songs that I use for my ipod shuffle in the car. This ensures that only music I like generally comes on, along with a sprinkling of "new/not yet listened to" and "haven't listened to in ages". When I've listened to these, I just re-sync and get another 100 songs that fit the criteria.

    I don't know why people find it difficult, either I am some kind of genius or there are a hell of a lot of simpletons out there...

  48. Purlieu

    Missing a collosal business opportunity

    Second hand mp3 files legal exchage

    Work out how to do it .... bingo !!

  49. Ted Treen
    Thumb Down

    Standards in decline...

    I know El Reg encourages its YTS scribes - sorry, "Journalists" - to have a go at Apple at every conceivable occasion - and to twist the occasion on those when it is not relevant, but recycling a "Sun" rambling as serious journalism?

    A new nadir - even lower than Asil!

    Even more, at least those of us resident in the EU would know that the EU Court of Justice case of Oracle vs UsedSoft GmbH within the last few weeks would render such a restriction unenforceable in our neck of the woods

    As a site with (supposed) IT-aware journalists, shouldn't El Reg have been aware of this, and mentioned it?

    Or does the visceral need to have a go at Apple surpass all ideas of reporting factually?

  50. Purlieu

    it has to be said

    Die Hard Drive

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