Chinese student's smut obsession lands 2,000 in JAIL Chinese police have smashed a major internet porn site and arrested more than 2,000 suspected users after being alerted to its existence by a mother who spied on her son after she noticed his school grades were slipping. Pornography is banned in China and local Public Security Bureau initiatives are often launched to “clean up …
Not too sure how to react to the whole pr0n thing. I can't imagine a pr0n ban nor even imagine what positive affect it would have, guess this is proof that "if you ban something common it'll go underground".
Instead I wonder if the kids parents aren't fighting symptoms here. It appears that instead of reprimanding the kid for not putting enough time into his studies they're simply in the process of taking away the distracting factor. Now, assuming he doesn't have to go to jail I can't help wonder: What will those parents do when the next major distraction turns up?
Say the guy meets a cute girlfriend and his study efforts drop again? Are they going to force him not to see her then or something?
Why not, instead of reporting this whole thing to the police, reprimand the kid not to slack off his studies and actually teach him that no matter what the distraction: you got to set priorities for yourself (this is of course assuming they didn't, the article wasn't quite clear on that but this appears to be the case) ?
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"The fact that us Westerners don't see porn with the same illegality is irrelevant"
That would be because apart from some types it isn't illegal.
Thats not to say that a kid who is watching so much porn they aren't doing their school work isn't having problems but that probably falls under the title of being a teenager
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I suggest that watching something will not make you want to do something if you are not already predisposed to it.
Watching porn will not make a teenager want to beat up his GF all of a sudden. However, it is likely that if he is of a type of personality who gets pleasure from beating his GF, he will seek out porn of that special kind. An there is *nothing* anyone can do about it. Cutting off his porn supply will not make him a nice person, sorry.
So, watching gay porn will not make him gay unless he is gay. Watching zoophile porn will not make him zoophile unless he is one. Watching violent porn will not make him violent unless he is a violent person.
Equally, watching violent videos will not make him violent, playing violent computer game will not make him violent, watching kittens playing pianos on Yutube will not make him a cat or a pianist.
"The same wonderful logic behind the truism that guns don't kill people"
No. You misunderstood my post. If you insist on a guns analogy, then my proposition is that owning a gun by itself would not make you want to shoot people but if you do want to shoot people you will try to obtain a gun.
"Kids are incredibly susceptible to suggestion"
That is actually an interesting point. If we take the base case of "normal" porn without too many kinky or unusual elements, what could be the suggestions offered by it?
- People have sex
- People sometimes have sex for pleasure
- People can take pleasure from having sex
- There may be more than 1 position to have sex in
- There may be more or fewer than 2 people in a sex act
- Men have penises
- Women have vaginas and breasts
- Penises fit into vaginas really well
- Men like to hold women's breasts, sometimes women do too...
Which of the above we need to protect our teenagers from and which of them they would not find out without having been exposed to porn first?
Had a similar debate on another forum with a middle aged lady who insisted that violent video games should be banned following the Aurora massacre. My point was that video games don't make people violent, but violent people may gravitate towards violent video games.
Curiously though, she seemed far less enthusiastic when I suggested that books should be subject to the same censorship - including the bible, which contains incest, torture, rape, murder, genocide and all manner of other unsavoury acts - many of which are done on the command of the main protagonist that the book is supposed to glorify.
Let him who is without sin pull the first hand shandy.
>My point was that video games don't make people violent, but violent people may gravitate towards violent video games
Myabe you should be careful with your smart arse arguments. Violent video games are extremely popular hence according to you there are loads of violent people about.
" Myabe you should be careful with your smart arse arguments. Violent video games are extremely popular hence according to you there are loads of violent people about."
Just because violent people are more likely to play violent video games, doesn't mean that a large percentage of said gamers are violent. Even if they are that says nothing about the games themselves, other than they could be a useful tool to estimate the number of violent people in the general population.
"If they don't know something exists, they don't think about it."
1) You cannot hide the existence of the opposite sex by banning some pics on the internets. Adam and Eve did not even have a dial-up connection yet they went at it so successfully that 100s of thousands of years since, there are 7 bn of their offspring roaming around on Earth. And if you are talking about wanking then how can the obsession of some Mr Kellogg with it be explained at the time when there were no PCs at all.
2) Ignorance is not a solution to anything. However tempting it might seem at the time, in the end it invariably proves more expensive than the problem it was supposed to solve.
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"t has already been studied and the findings were fairly clear."
No, it has been repeatedly studied and the findings have been incredibly equivocal at best with those who have a desire to ban pornography (or violent video games etc etc) skewing statistics and cherry-picking results which fit their personal biases.
And playing the "won't someone think of the children" card doesn't give any more credibility to your position.
Citation needed.
I'm not aware of any controlled, longitudinal study where someone provided porn to a group of kids and somehow prevented the control group getting access. In fact, I would have a great deal of trouble imagining such a study getting past any university ethics committee - even if someone could somehow find a way to implement the study.
As far as I can tell very little research on this subject has been done by somebody that didn't have an agenda to begin with.
"Porn is unhealthy for a kid to have unfettered access to as it will lead to a skewed perspective on sexual relations."
Just as a thought experiment, ponder this statement:
"Religion is unhealthy for a kid to have unfettered exposure to as it will lead to a skewed perspective on sexual relations."
And speaking of sexual relations and skews, what's the gender ratio looking like for adolescents in China these days?
>The fact that us Westerners don't see porn with the same illegality is irrelevant
I doubt Asiana see porn with the same illegality as their governments who passed the law in the first place.
You are confusing what people may chose if allowed with what restrictions have been forced on them.
However if you feel that the Chinese government is better at looking after the moral well being of it's citizens then you know what you can do. Hell, once there you might make it onto the committee.
> There is nothing wrong with good old porn
I'd agree, but there is very, very serious hardcore stuff available to anyone with an unfiltered 'net connection. It's no longer a few jazz mags hidden in the woods by a horny teenager; it's hardcore, it's video and it's practically anywhere you want at the click of a button.
"There is nothing wrong with good old porn."
More to the point it can be highly benificial. Back in my teenage days I believe I used to suffer from the serious medical condition we termed DSB (Dangerous Sperm Buildup),and porn was the very medicine that would regularly ease the suffering. And I was not alone - every single one of my male friends were also sufferers of this potentially catastrophic condition.
It is to porn that we owe our safe passage to later life.
"There is nothing wrong with good old porn."
Right, but in hindsight I'm damn glad that both the internet and internet porn weren't around when I was a kid at school. My grades were already marginal enough and they'd have probably sunk without a trace with such distractions.
Back then, perving on girls across the classroom was unduly distracting. Mind you, having only ever gone to a coed school, I pity the poor bastards who only ever had single-sex schooling.
I believe I have the birthright to raise an exeption here.
Actually, spot on. I was a bastard, raised by a very poor family (pensioners). Garden chickens gave us eggs, we couldn't afford to buy them-
Nothing wrong with single-sex schooling. I was Heducated at Leamington college for Boys (although I was an occasional nocturnal visitor at Leamington College for Girls)
I was told by a friend that his father made him a homosexual. I asked my mother if I gave her the wool, could she make me one?
Pron is readily available in China, hawkers are selling it on street corners, pre-downloaded onto DVD for those people who do not have PC based internet access.
There have also been reports that the Chinese government has softened its stance on pron after it was shown that pron was stopping the proles from getting too restive (and so not rioting as often).
...that if many people didn't have the repressive and mediaeval attitude towards pornography, then that in itself would help 'celan up' the internet, as pornographers could get more legitimate advertising on their sites, and a major vector for malware (dodgy advertising that directs to infection sites) would be throttled.
You could probably make a similar argument for prostitution, and how properly legalising and regulating it would result in less of the nasty organised crime and sex slavery that goes on.
Sadly, we will probably remain in thrall to the moralising idiots who promote the thought that this sort of thing is hameful for a while yet.
Parents should take more responsibility when it comes to their kids on the internet. You wouldn't let them walk down the red light district... so don't let them go down the digital one.
China have it wrong in my opinion, banning porn sends it underground which brings up a whole load of new issues. Also, some great education and ideas can come from porn.. certainly enriches my relationship. :P
And violent video games is that if unchecked, it does tend to desensitize the viewer to what is being shown. Especially when the viewer is impressionable. Sometimes, good ol fashioned common sense needs to take precedence over being politically correct.
If it's ok for kids to view porn, why not experiment with what they see. And if they're doing it, why not with an adult? At what point does being a pc liberal prick in such matters start to feel plain wrong?
Firstly, you contradict yourself - if you are desensitised, then, surely, you are *less* likely to experiment with what you see.
Secondly, you appear to think that desensitisation is a bad thing. How can that be? Look at any "sensitised" society. It's sometimes enough for a woman to show a bit of skin or a leg, let alone her face, to provoke an uncontrolled stoning frenzy. Of course, desensitisation is absolutely required for normal functioning of human society.
Thirdly, you seem to think that "kids" will only want sex if they are shown the pictures. I presume you were born fully matured, at 50 year old biological age equivalent, so you missed all that "puberty" and "adolescence" thing. But let me tell you on good authority, that teenagers do not need any porn to want to have sex. They have all the porn you can think of right inside their minds (and probably some that you cannot even think of), created by their own imagination.
Firstly, what i meant was that if all some kids do is shoot / slash people in video games, they'd be less averse to do it in real life.
Secondly, you're confused between religious fanaticism and moral development. Were you aware that Osama Bin Laden had a stash of porn in the compound he was killed in? So much for that line of reasoning.
Thirdly, no i went through puberty like most other people. And it was tough at the time, but i did get to view porn, so no, i'm not a prude. Today though, kids are exposed to sex even before they hit puberty. i read of school kids indulging in oral sex and filming it on their cell phones, teenagers still in school getting pregnant and abortions. And i think that something is not right. From where do they get these ideas? Why is this so normal for them? is it because they see so much of it so easily? Porn isn't the only cause, but it is a major factor.
but then some know-it-all schmuck tells me that this is not true. kids do not get any ideas from porn. I'll believe you just as soon as you introduce me to the tooth fairy.
Your #1 - it is pure fiction. We are maybe what we eat but we are not what we see. You don't automatically do anything you see on a screen, neither do other people, kids included. Conversely, not seeing something is not going to stop somebody who have certain fantasies in their head from trying to do them in real life.
In fact, I firmly believe that if you have an unbalanced individual with such fantasies and let him vent off his steam in front of a simulation, you will prevent, or at least defer him from doing it for real.
Your #2 - the underlying cause of sensitisation is irrelevant here. So, my point still stands - if your society is too sensitive about certain things it leads to chronic overreaction, whether it's caused by religion or by Daily Mail. Desensitisation is a good thing, without which your society will be failure.
Your #3 - children were always exposed to sex. There was no age of consent in the caves. Teenagers still at school have sex - how is that a new thing? The most famous love story in the world is about underage lovers - Romeo & Juliet, they'd be both on sex offenders register these days.
I see no indication that there is more teenage sex today than there always was in the past. There is a lot more hysteria about it for a number of reasons but I don't see the actual problem.
The nature has to have its ways - it makes teenagers interested in sex, whether you show them porn or put them in burkas. It also makes sure that not too many of them will have it - porn or no porn, a pimply-faced shy youth is not going to get laid until he matures enough to attract interest from the opposite sex.
Ok, i actually googled the topic of violent video games and it's effects on behaviour. The jury is still out on this, however:
"In fact, I firmly believe that if you have an unbalanced individual with such fantasies and let him vent off his steam in front of a simulation, you will prevent, or at least defer him from doing it for real."
you do make a very good point which i have overlooked and surprisingly, my google research actually seems to back you up on this. so good point.
Having said that, I still do not agree that unfettered access to porn/violence is healthy for children. yes teenage sex was around for ages. To take your example, what if that pimple faced teenager was watching porn alone with a girl he would otherwise never have had a chance with?
I'm sure many people like myself grew up with mostly unfettered internet & games. I'm now a stable, happily married man, not the least bit deviant or zelous. I have to blame my parents for doing such a fine job teaching by example how to function in society. It is really common sense to me. The more you oppress, the more they want it. There has to be a level-headed moderation approach to these things.
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If it was me you're typing about, Being a wanker has not had any negative effect on my life. That was the point. the "pc liberal prick" line just inspired me to stand up to such closed-minded zealotry. Ironically my wife was raised in an oppressively christian family. Guess whose family is full of sexual deviants. Not mine : )
Paris because she has to be involved in this story somehow.
So this is China, we all know it's hideously oppressive, you can't do anything online at all and yet....
Am I reading this bit right?
"Investigators complained that the several-months long crackdown could have been made easier if operators were forced to retain internet logs for longer than the current 60 days"
God forbid they employ Theresa May as a consultant on 'nothing to fear, nothing to hide' legislation.
Thumbs up to a bit of Chinese style, freedom to surf...rather than a social dossier, May style 'time line'
and fraudulent web sites are nothing more than a cover for something far more important to Party bosses – shutting down online political dissent.» You do have evidence for that statement, do you not, Phil - given your long and initmate association with «Party bosses» ? Or are you suggesting that when the police shut down this network (which, unless more serious issues were uncovered (pardon the pun !) than pornography, I suggest is an egregious waste of police resources, which even in China are not unlimited), it was all a mistake, and they actually intended to so something else (and twice as nefarous - after all, they're Chinese) entirely ? The article would have been greatly improved by editing out that last superciliously ignorant little paragraph....
Henri
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