Sir
Oh noes! the databases are coming, the databases are coming!!
UK Border Agency to create 'national allegations database'
The home affairs committee has welcomed plans by the UK Border Agency (UKBA) to create a National Allegations Database to manage information provided by the public on possible immigration violations. In a report (PDF) on the UKBA's work between December 2011 and March 2012, the committee says that overall, only 4 per cent of …
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Tuesday 24th July 2012 09:36 GMT Red Sceptic
Well, let's think, shall we?
The obvious things, like malicious complaints about people we don't like (or who "don't look/think/act like us"); the usual IT-based cock-ups, producing false trails/leads which have to be investigated; cost over-runs as the mega-specification provides the usual suspects with the excuse to up the budget for "unforeseen circumstances" - the list is endless.
Here's an idea - immigration control could check people's passports when they LEAVE the country as well as when they ARRIVE. That way, the UKBA would actually know how many "illegals" there are here instead of just guessing and going through this kind of silly charade where we're all encouraged to snitch on each other and be subject to constant surveillance ... or perhaps that's really what "they" want?
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Tuesday 24th July 2012 10:54 GMT Homer 1
Re: Well, let's think, shall we?
Mrs Scum: I don't like darkies!
UK Stasi Agency: Why thank you Mrs Scum, we'll send the darky elimination squad round pronto!
Yup, that'll work.
Why does the gov want everyone except the actual police to "police" the UK?
Oh right, they don't need to pay vigilantes.
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Tuesday 24th July 2012 09:44 GMT Usually Right or Wrong
Simples solution init
'concerns about a huge backlog of 276,000 immigration cases, which it says is "larger than the population of Newcastle upon Tyne".'
Just send all the people in Newcastle upon Tyne on a long holiday, move the backlog immigration cases there with a bit of overspill, then you know where they are. Oh, and probably build a big wall in case, and encourage all the people in Gateshead to 'complain' (what happened to allegation?) about all the people now in Newcastle upon Type and they will up the complaint accuracy rate and know where to find all the people who complained to give them feedback. Then the UKBA would have some good stats to report for a change.
Or maybe just give up the idea of a hearsay database that can ruin peoples lives. The sad thing is that given the choice, UKBA would probably opt for my first option.
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Tuesday 24th July 2012 09:52 GMT Kevin Johnston
Low Yield
Of course the low yield could just be down to not having enough staff to run the enforcement arm of the business. This would fit in with the reports of illegal immigrants being told to turn up on a set time/day at an office rather than being collected and held for checks.
All of this is meaningless if you cannot hold/deport illegals at the time they are encountered rather than having them roaming the country during a legal wrangle period of several months to allow them ample opportunity to create a new life in the UK, which then creates a set of 'Human Rights' allowing a whole new legal wrangle period (always assuming someone remembers to check if they are still here).
To top it off, it seems that prospective illegals are sharing knowledge on how to beat the system with one of the favourites being to just lose all sense of identity. If officialdom cannot prove who you are and your nationality then it seems they are powerless to remove you.
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Tuesday 24th July 2012 10:09 GMT Anonymous Coward
Oooo goody, another nebulous IT project commissioned by one of the least-competent agencies of the government! Let's start taking bets at how many hundreds of millions it will be overbudget, how many years late it'll be, and whether it'll actually be fit for purpose at the end of it all. And how many freshly-redundant border staff could have been employed had they saved the money instead.
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Wednesday 25th July 2012 06:17 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Where UKBA can go for advice...
No, the Stasi attempted to have a database on *everybody*.
Being cynical, I love the way the Stasi are always trotted out as the ultimate bogeyman when these sort of issues arise. Yes they were bastards, and I personally know Germans who suffered directly at their hands, but I do so love the way they're still continually being used as a bit of a 'smokescreen' (à la 'hey, at least we're not the Stasi!') to ameliorate the fact that our 'security services' have been maintaining databases for decades (or longer) which are just as pernicious as any the Stasi ever had, detailing the minutiae of the lives of individuals they regard with the same degree of suspicion the Stasi regarded their (to them, just as legitimate) targets with as well.
The Yanks are currently being particularly bad for this in an overt and somewhat bombastic manner (hey, you could have a FBI, CIA, NSA and TSA file, maybe even a TPC file as well), our lot have always been a bit more circumspect, but that doesn't mean they're not gathering the information.
Mines is the 'super-sekrit' file lurking somewhere which, amongst other things, contains the classic comment 'too intelligent to be unemployed' [time period concerned was during the Thatcher regime, the comment, which in the context of the rest of the file, should be read as: 'up to no good' as far as officialdom (then) was concerned]
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Monday 30th July 2012 17:55 GMT mhenriday
Re: Where UKBA can go for advice...
No, no, no, not STASI - you're forgetting the «special relationship» ! The obvious man for the post is Joseph Arpaio, Sherrif of Arizona's Maricopa County, who is an acknowledged «expert» in dealing with immigrants and who may just be available for a post as senior advisor to the UKBA, if his terms can be met....
Henri
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Tuesday 24th July 2012 10:27 GMT alain williams
Low Yeild
''it is still interested in the "low yield" of actionable intelligence that results from these tip-offs''. Ever heard of GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out) - if this is just rumours from curtain twitchers, what do you expect ?
I am not saying that they should not be looked into, but don't expect a ''high yeild''.
Yesterday I was amazed at Keir Starmer saying that the conviction rate for rape was too low. Maybe this is because the judge/jury looking at the evidence in the trials decided that they could not convict. Just because a woman makes an allegation does not make the man a rapist. You can't twist the evidence to suit your prejudices!
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Tuesday 24th July 2012 13:49 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Low Yeild
Re: Rape. Low conviction rates are mostly due to the poor quality of the cases being brought to trial. An accused has to show either there was no physical act, or that they believed the victim was consenting. The victim has to show there was a physical act. That they are claiming they did not consent, or withdrew consent, is a given. Belief in consent is often the reason why a case fails.
The problem is the number of people who decide after the event that they were raped, or are convinced this is the case by others. These bloat the accusation figures and are prone to fail in court.
This, however, does highlight the reason why 'accusation' databases are bad. Either the case has been concluded one way or another, or it is still ongoing. About the only purpose of an 'accusation' database I can see is to track false reports - a 'cry wolf' database, if you will.
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Tuesday 24th July 2012 10:33 GMT dotdavid
I think the people who come up with these ideas are the same ones that came up with the names for "The Postcode Lottery" and "Big Brother" - they'll read a report or cautionary tale, not understand it, but think it has a catchy name.
"National allegations database? I read something about it being big in Germany, sounds like a great idea!"
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Tuesday 24th July 2012 11:50 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Other allegations database could be available...
Greywolf: 10:38
> For instance, a place where you can dob in local councillors and council
> officials that you suspect of being on the take. No problems with low yield there.
Already available - and is published fortnightly. Also has a catchy name - 'Private Eye'
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Tuesday 24th July 2012 10:59 GMT Roger Stenning
"Citizens"?
"The committee believes that the launch of the database will help the agency improve its performance in following up on tip-offs from citizens"
OK, did someone turn this country into a republic without me noticing? The ONLY place that we are said to be "Citizens" is on a British Passport, and that's because hardly anywhere else understands what a Subject is. We're "Subjects", not Citizens. Great Britain is a "Constitutional Monarchy" after all, and HM The Queen is the Head Of State. If you don't like that, bugger off somewhere else, because it's the *only* game in this particular town. I seem to recall Parliamentarians have to take an oath of loyalty that effect as well, when they take their seats.
Hmph. Sodding politicians trying to be Politically Stupid - I mean Correct - again. Don't trust 'em, never have, never will.
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Tuesday 24th July 2012 20:53 GMT BristolBachelor
Re: "Citizens"?
"If you don't like that, bugger off somewhere else"
However, as I understand it, you cannot give-up your British nationality because you are not a "guest" of Britain, you are a subject of the queen. I know someone who had to surrender their passport to change to a new nationaility (the things people do for love!), and he was told by the Brit embassy that it doesn't really matter, he can just apply for a new passport again; there is no such thing as giving up your nationality, and they just ignore the request.
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Tuesday 24th July 2012 15:19 GMT Stevie
Bah!
The index coagulation on last name should be a thing of beauty. I once worked on a system which the soundex search would only retrieve the same (wrong) 200 names because no-one had considered that the target population didn't spread their last names evenly over the alphabet sensibly but insisted on using the same one over and over again.
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Biting the hand that feeds IT
