Dell readies Linux Ultrabook for autumn release

If you're in the right neck of the woods, you'll be able to buy a Dell Ultrabook pre-loaded with Linux this coming autumn. The PC giant last night said it was moving its Project Sputnik - a scheme to create a developer-friendly Linux laptop - from pilot to product. The machine in question is an XPS 13 with a custom build of …

[Anonymous Coward]

Really?

I have tried a couple of time to actually buy a Dell machine with Linux, but they make it so damn hard. Really, I wonder if the sole purpose of this is to negotiate a better Windows price with MS rather then actually selling any Linux boxes.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Really?

The rumour is that the last time Dell tried to sell Linux, MS told them in no uncertain terms to stop.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Really?

"The rumour is that the last time Dell tried to sell Linux, MS told them in no uncertain terms to stop."

It must be true so - it's not as if any linux user would feel moved to harm Microsoft by making something like that up, or repeating an unsubstantiated rumour. (Because if they could actually substantiate it, Microsoft would be in substantial legal trouble).

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Really?

But MS have been in substantial legal trouble and currently are in substantial legal trouble.

Or do you just keep chugging that Kool Aid?

[eulampios]

Microsoft's legal trouble

>>(Because if they could actually substantiate it, Microsoft would be in substantial legal trouble).

Because Microsoft is a substantial rascal... hmm smart to do it all behind the closed door and with Non-disclosure sauce.

Say, how much is the OEM's Windows copy? Is it the same for all the OEMs? If not, what it depends on? One can only judge based on the very counterintuitive behavior of the said OEM's. Say, what does Dell want to verify when selling GNU/Linux with lower specs for higher price? What does Acer accomplish by making their laptop buyer ship the whole machine to their facility to return the Windows? And why in general is it such a pain to get the damned refund for it?

As far as the trouble is concerned, who was the one to have been pissing on the agreement with EU? Sometimes they forget, they aren't behind the doors all the time.

[Anonymous Coward]

Unsubstantiated rumour?

"Michael Dell coy on Linux Desktop putsch"

"I do not want to invest $$ in Dell to fund their Red Hat efforts .. we will be quite prescriptive in our investments with Dell relative to the competitive threats we see with Linux" px09280.pdf

“we should whack [Dell], we should make sure they understand our value”

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Really?

"It must be true so - it's not as if any linux user would feel moved to harm Microsoft by making something like that up, or repeating an unsubstantiated rumour. (Because if they could actually substantiate it, Microsoft would be in substantial legal trouble)."

You're right, I am sure that Microsoft told Dell they were delighted they had decided to start selling a competitive OS and that they would in no way penalize them for it because Microsoft is so committed to fair competition.

[Ken Hagan]

Re: sole purpose

"I wonder if the sole purpose of this is to negotiate a better Windows price with MS"

...or the continued availability of Win7 licences after October 26th.

[Johnny Canuck]

ubuntu eh

Should be able to install Debian or Mint as well.

[The BigYin]

Re: ubuntu eh

And Fedora and....

But yes, one would expect any Ubuntu derivative to "just work". Debian? Maybe not so much due tot he patches Canonical apply (would depend on the Debian I guess).

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: ubuntu eh

I would expect Ubuntu and Mint to install fine though Debian Squeeze might baulk at it, Wheezy? Haven't tried. My currently laptop is too new for Debian, but Ubuntu and Mint run fine, after applying a patch or two.

[The BigYin]

Not this again

Look, we keep getting stories about "X will sell a GNU/Linux system" where X is Dell, HP, ASUS or someone else and you know what? They are only ever on sale in certain territories, to corporate customers, not linked correctly on the website and on shitty hardware or for an insane price.

I hope Canoncial can pull it off - but this is the same company who crowed about ASUS selling Ubuntu pre-installed, then couldn't tell me where I could buy one! So I will believe it when I see it frankly.

And I'll believe it when Dell list this on their UK site, allow UK Joe Public to buy it and have the XPS 13 with an OS option combo. Until then I'll go with a manufacturer/seller who actually supports GNU/Linux in a proper manner; System76, ZaReason, ThinkPenguin, EmporerLinux, Fit-PC (there may be others).

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Not this again

Remember the Dell Inspiron 1525N sold in a certain territory (the USA)? I'm typing this on one.

It's was priced the same as the 1525 but had Ubuntu and used Intel wireless instead of having Vista and Broadcom.

[The BigYin]

Re: Not this again

And that is exactly what I mean. I am sick and tired of "X sells GNU/Linux computers!" when there are massive restrictions on the sale which means it's NOT on sale unless you are one of the lucky ones.

Hence why I'd buy from a company that genuinely sells GNU/Linux units before the like of Dell.

If Dell make this available globally, for the same (or lower) price as Win8; then I might be interested.

[The BigYin]

Re: Not this again

Seems I missed the like about it only being on sale in certain regions.

Epic fail once more from Dell. What are Canonical playing at?

[Connor]

Re: Not this again

Yeah I do, I am replying on one. The Dell 1525n was available in the UK too (where I got mine), but again, the same price as the Windows version. I naively thought that I'd buy all my subsequent laptops from Dell, but each time I ask about their Linux offerings I just get told - no, they don't do them and have no plans to do them. So I have just stuck with my 1525n and upgraded wherever possible.

I'm with the original commenter on this, I think that the short lived N series was merely a way of getting a better deal from MS, which is a shame.

[Patrick O'Reilly]

Re: Not this again

Last time I went through the shopping cart flow to buy an Ubuntu machine off Dell, they suggested I used Internet Explorer 7

The last decent Ubuntu based machine Dell stocked was the Mini 10, however Dell got seriously burned by punters buying the cheapest one they saw and then complaining when it "didn't have Windows". Picked up a couple at the Dell Outlet for €199.

[Waspy]

Re: Not this again

Just ask Nokia about that - people keep returning Lumia 800 Windows Phones to O2 because they thought it "had (Linux based) Android" on it. Ooooh the irony

[RICHTO]

Re: Not this again

I seriously doubt that. Windows Phone is much nicer to use than Android. And loads more secure of course as it doesnt use Linux.

[Anonymous Coward]

Give me an Ultrabook with Secureboot turned off

Then I will be able to put whatever the hell I like on it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Give me an Ultrabook with Secureboot turned off

Why can't you turn it off yourself? It's really not difficult.

[h4rm0ny]

Re: Give me an Ultrabook with Secureboot turned off

Secure Boot is a thing that helps users, not restricts them. You can turn it off normally and for x86 machines, if you want to sell it as Win8 ready, then MS require that the user be able to turn it off.

Anyway, away from the red herrings, one of the main barriers to Linux adoption by users without a strong technical background is that you don't get it pre-installed like you do with Windows or OSX. If you do, then all the problems with making sure you have everything for the right hardware just vanishes, because the manufacturer has done that for you - the same advantage OSX and Windows enjoy.

[Gorbachov]

Re: Give me an Ultrabook with Secureboot turned off

Ummm, no.

It does make the machines more secure but it does it by restricting the user.

For a Win 8 sticker the "Secure Boot" /must/ be /on/ by default and if you turn it off you can't dual boot Windows. AFAIK the only distro with signing keys for "Secure Boot" is Fedora but there is still a lot of uncertainty about revocation and other fluff.

[Alan Denman]

Or save ...

... or save $50 by buying the Windows version.

Well that's how the Dell offers normally work, so is this yet another pretence?

[Benchops]

will only be "available in select geographies" ?

Like in a glacial valley or mountainous regions? Do they perhaps mean "countries"?

[The BigYin]

Re: will only be "available in select geographies" ?

Whoops - how did I miss that? So it's effectively not going to be on sale at all then. Good to know.

Dell? Screw you. Again.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: will only be "available in select geographies" ?

Oxbow lakes, mainly.

[Uncle Slacky]

Re: will only be "available in select geographies" ?

Middle Earth, perhaps?

[Chemist]

"rebuilding your Linux OS to try to get wifi working, or sound, or getting your video driver .."

FUD - some people may indeed have trouble but I've installed OpenSuse 11.4 to 3 very different laptops/netbooks in the last year and had NO problems at all - not just with the built-in hardware but also 3G dongles, printers, DSLR cameras ( controlling them NOT just downloading pics), USB headsets, webcams etc

[davtom]

Re: "rebuilding your Linux OS to try to get wifi working, or sound, or getting your video driver .."

My HP printer installs much more easily on Ubuntu than Windows. You plug in the USB, wait a few moments, and it's ready. Getting it to work on Windows 7 is a pain in the neck.

Rebuild your Linux OS? If you're a huge techie, fine. Otherwise that's the type of thing I was doing about 15 years ago. No need to do it today. But at least you CAN do it. You can't do it with Windows because you don't have the source code.

Both operating systems have their pluses and minuses, but Linux isn't bad at all; it's not as bad as people make out.

[The BigYin]

What utter FUD

To counter the above I have a laptop which would blue screen every time it tried to use WiFi under Windows XP. Installed a GNU/Linux and it worked perfectly. Not need to tit around with video drivers either.

Now I probably could have got XP to work by spending 3 weeks downloading different patches, reading knowledge base articles and wasting my life. Or I could have gone with something that worked.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: What utter FUD

I've had quite the opposite experience with Ubuntu 12.04 vs Win7. Ubuntu was slow to boot up/shutdown, crashy and not particularly user friendly whereas Windows7 just worked. Sure I could have spent 3 weeks wasting my life trying to figure it out but I just stuck Win7 on and it works fine.

[Steve Renouf]

?Any Laptop?

"Sure, you could buy any laptop and spend 3 weeks downloading different Linux distros, rebuilding your Linux OS to try to get wifi working, or sound, or getting your video driver to not keep crashing when you run Flash, or ... etc."

That's odd, Ubuntu works perfectly on every laptop I've installed it on so far... especially the older ones that aren't quite up to W7 spec!

[JEDIDIAH]

Trolling nonsense...

> Sure, you could buy any laptop and spend 3 weeks downloading different Linux distros

I started using Ubuntu after a 6.x release worked flawlessly with a company issued Dell laptop.

[h4rm0ny]

I develop on Linux because I like the command line and I know how everything works. But you can develop on Windows easily enough. But really why bother with all those issues you talk about with installing Linux (again, not that hard if you know what you're doing), and just run Linux in a VM on Windows? That's what I do for day to day. My poor Gentoo install hasn't been booted in months. Stick Linux in a VM and you've got the best of both worlds with very little of the downside.

[Richard Lloyd]

I don't hold out much hope for a good deal

For *years* people have been regularly posting to www.ideastorm.com, begging Dell to put Linux on their machines, but whenever Dell does it, it sets out to deliberately make the Linux purchasing experience hard and often more expensive:

* They don't Linux as an OS choice for any of the models that they sell with Windows - this would be the easiest way for Linux to get some sales, but Dell are too scared of MS (e.g. losing volume discounts) to do this.

* They put the Linux machine well out of the way of the normal model list. Instead of just being another model in the appropriate section, they put it as a well of out of the way link called something like "Open Source Desktops" or some such vague description.

* They don't do an identically spec'ed Linux machine to the equivalent that comes with Windows. The reason for this one is obvious - users will be able to deduct the price of one from the other and work out how much Windows costs to the end user.

* Because of the difference in specs, you'll often find worse specs on Linux machines despite the selling price being roughly the same as Windows machines.

* All the endless short-term offers (50 quid off, extra RAM, bigger hard drive etc. etc.) seem to only every apply to Windows machines and never to Linux ones.

It's now wonder that previous Dell attempts at selling machines with Linux have failed - they've deliberately designed to fail from day one. I hope that these XPS machines buck that trend, but I don't hold out much hope to be honest. Any bets that it'll be more cost effective to buy the Windows XPS 13 and dual boot it to Linux instead? All I'm asking is that the Linux version costs the same as the Windows (doesn't have to be cheaper, though that would be nice) one and has the same hardware spec too - is that too hard to ask?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: I don't hold out much hope for a good deal

I believe, based on my experience (and I may be wrong), that their market for these sort of things is on the B2B side of things, where companies often insist that in order to use operating system 'A' on a machine, the manufacturer must have "certified" said machine to run with OS 'A'. So basically yes, it's just a market gimmick.

As far as consumers are concerned, you just buy whichever machine you like sans OS and install your own. If said machine comes with an OS pre-installed (practically all of them), then you just return the OS hard media / sticker / whatever proof of purchase for a reimbursement, ignoring T&Cs that tend to say that you either return the whole thing (OS+hardware) or nothing--the reason those T&Cs are invalid btw is that they come from the OS manufacturer, with whom you have never entered into any commercial relationship.

In the 13 years I have been doing this not once I have been challenged. The bastards... a challenge or refusal is exactly what I would like, so I can get this through the courts, but as I say, that hasn't happened so far.

[billium]

It will under powered and over priced to cover the Microsoft tax.

It will certainly not be the same price or cheaper than the equivilant sold with M$.

[Len Goddard]

Unnh

So instead of being inflicted with metro we get lumbered with Unity?

Not interested unless I can overylay the Xubuntu desktop.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Unnh

A little googling would have told you that it's the matter of a single "sudo apt-get install...". It's very painless to stick xcfe on Ubuntu (and a good idea, as Unity os a bit rubbish, tbh).

[Craig Chambers]

Re: Unnh

Let me see...

Open terminal app

Type "sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop"

Log out;

Select Xfce or Xubuntu session;

Log in.

Done

[A J Stiles]

You know what we really need?

What we really need is for those greasy ambulance-chasing lawyers to get a whiff of "mis-sold computer software" in their nostrils.

[ninjatjj]

How much do Dell pay for Windows (Home Premium or whatever)? Plus I guess Microsoft support them with hardware configuration etc. I don't think the scale of Canonical would be able to certify hardware as cheaply as Windows so although the OS is free to a user, the cost to the manufacturer is greater in interop. Long way of saying that I guess a licence for Windows costs dell ~£20, so the price difference is going to be in the region of that

[qwarty]

Dell costs will probably be comparable Ubuntu v Windows, they'll be paying abot £20-30 pounds for 8 Pro but extra support costs for Ubuntu likely cancel that out.

[ninjatjj]

Thanks for the -1 without a comment to say what I got wrong? To spell it out:

1. I prefer linux

2. My argument is to do with why the price for Windows vs Linux on this Laptop, I am saying that it is going to be the same price for the punter. In other words, the cost of Windows is not going to be a a deciding factor to the RRP of the laptop as Windows is ~ negligible cost to Dell is my guess.

[Anonymous Coward]

"I don't think the scale of Canonical would be able to certify hardware as cheaply as Windows so although the OS is free to a user, the cost to the manufacturer is greater in interop"

The bloke above is actually right. If anyone disagrees, please state why.

* If you are a corporate user who insists (or your customers insist) that the OS being installed be "certified" to run on the target hardware, then you pay more for the privilege (fucking stupid and useless of an idea as it is in practice, but tell that to your boss).

* If you are an individual consumer, you just buy the hardware and return the OS licence if it's not the one you're going to use, and get a refund or discount for it. Inconvenient but that's the way it is.

[Anonymous Coward]

How will sales compare with Windows 8 from Dell

Fun to read all the negativity from Linux enthusiasts anxious to get the excuses logged now for what doubtless will be abysmal sales levels compared with Metro capable systems.

[RICHTO]

Re: How will sales compare with Windows 8 from Dell

That depends on how easy it will be to wipe the Linux and upgrade to a Warez version of Windows 8. No one will buy it for Linux.

[Anonymous Coward]

It still amazes me...

...that Dull is still in business the way they function.

As for Linux I am amazed that someone has not come up with a quality, user friendly Linux distro for mainstream consumers and small Biz. The stuff I tested was anything but user friendly and the paid tech support (sic) was so technically ignorant that they should have paid me to teach them the basics of PC operation -- as they had no clue about hardware drivers.

[Anonymous Coward]

This....

This truly IS the year of Linux on the Desktop errr Laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: This....

As opposed to Linux on portable electronics, industrial devices, in-flight and in-vehicle entertainment systems, domestic appliances, supercomputers, and all kinds of servers?

I think the world has moved on since the desktop was the be-all and end-all of personal computing.

[Trevor_Pott]

Ultrabook with Ubuntu and Steam for Linux?

That's my next device sorted. Well done, Dell...and thanks!

[The BigYin]

Re: Ultrabook with Ubuntu and Steam for Linux?

XPS 13 - Would you like Windows 8 or Windows 8?

(Ubuntu is not an option in your territory)

[Trevor_Pott]

Re: Ultrabook with Ubuntu and Steam for Linux?

I can drive. Frankly, if I am forced to choose between a 12hr (each way) road trip with my wife through some lovely mountains and national parks (oh no!) and buying a Macbook...

...then the gas and wear+tear on my vehicle is totally worth it.

After all, even with the distance travelled to obtain the device, it'll still be cheaper than the Mac. I'm sure the fact that my clients will request I bring back several dozen to cover off their needs will make it a worthwhile trip. Ubuntu is really catching on up here. Maybe if enough of us try to register our shiny new Dell ultrabooks from Canada, Dell will relent and allow us to purchase them (and support them!) here in Canada.

It isn't the perfect solution...but it beats having to use a Mac.

[h4rm0ny]

Re: Ultrabook with Ubuntu and Steam for Linux?

"I can drive. Frankly, if I am forced to choose between a 12hr (each way) road trip with my wife through some lovely mountains and national parks (oh no!) and buying a Macbook..."

Not arguing that you shouldn't enjoy some mountains and national parks, but really why not just install Linux on any other laptop? I see this as an advantage for the non-technical user because Canonical will ensure that a reference machine like this would be will always work without hassle. But for a technical user like I presume you are, you should be able to overcome any issues easily. I've installed Ubuntu on a number of laptops and it's worked fine nearly always (exception of some Broadcom wireless stuff on an older one which I was still able to fix without it taking too long). Basically Ubuntu already works fine on most laptops so just grab one of those. If it's an issue of having paid for Windows with the laptop I believe you can get refunds for that if you don't use it. A pain, but less time consuming than your road trip.

[Trevor_Pott]

Re: Ultrabook with Ubuntu and Steam for Linux?

The honest truth? Support. Specifically driver support for graphics.

Dell releasing an officially supported Linux notebook has a much higher chance of releasing it with a combination of Distro version and hardware that actually has driver support that isn't complete ass. Frankly, I’m sick and tired of dealing with shitty driver support on Linux. (I’m look at you, nVidia, Intel and AMD!) I want the damned thing to “just work.”

Linux does what I need it to do in nearly every case…except for the hardware support. It’s terrible. It’s Vista-right-at-release terrible, and its been that way for ages. Even Apple can’t get these guys to play nice with the graphics drivers, for $deity’s sake!

So I am not going to put myself up against Apple for quality control here. I am not arrogant enough to believe that I am capable of vetting hardware on the level of a corporation worth a significant chunk of Europe. Nor do I have the raw money required to buy prototype models for testing on a regular basis!

Dell however stands a reasonably good chance of being able to work this out. They have experience trying to do the hardware thing for Windows with a diversity of devices that would make Apple weep in terror.

So would I like a Linux device provided to me wrapped in a nice little bow and with driver updates handled by the vendor? You bet your ass!

Look, I’m not into open source because I’m a giant nerd wanting to tinker with Linux’s internals all day long, program some widget, compile packages from source or futz with a config file.

I want to use Linux because Windows 8 is asstastic. Worse, Microsoft’s recent actions have proven to me that they refuse to listen to SME clients and as such I cannot bet my business on them. I want to use Linux because I need to exit the Microsoft ecosystem based on trust issues, not philosophical ones.

But I still want a similar alternative. One where a vendor provides me an OS that simply works; where updates are pre-vetted by the vendor and where common software configurations are well tested.

To be honest, Android is more and more filling this role for me. Apple is also ready for the enterprise. But Android docking stations are rare as hen’s teeth, and they don’t support multiple external displays. Apple is simply too expensive for me to run my business on; we’re still too small yet.

So that leaves me looking for at vendor that will provide me with a Linux notebook, desktop and other such things. I don’t need Microsoft to run my business, nor do I feel I can trust them with my company’s future. But I like a lot of the things that used to be part of the Microsoft ecosystem. I’m hoping that this move by Dell – combined by others such as Steam porting to Ubuntu – are the first steps in building a business-class user endpoint ecosystem surrounding a mainstream Linux distro.

Why won’t I “just install Linux on another notebook?” Because I’m voting with my wallet here. To tell Dell “more of this, please.” To encourage a mainstream vendor to take a risk, to provide me the ecosystem and support that I want to see. I’ll buy this because its there…and I want more like it.

[Chemist]

Re: Ultrabook with Ubuntu and Steam for Linux?

"except for the hardware support. It’s terrible"

Sorry Trevor - years ago that might have been true although I've had nothing much to concern me in ~17 years of use. But now it's not an issue for me - desktops and servers I don't have any problem with - laptops I've had no problems for ~5 years.

[Trevor_Pott]

Re: Ultrabook with Ubuntu and Steam for Linux?

@Chemist: I am aware how much Linux's hardware support has increased over the years. By the same token, I am describing issues I am having right now, today, with hardware varying between 6 years old and brand-new-COTS equipment. This equipment ranges from cheap-as-derp to high-end-server-gear.

I am sorry to have to say it, but in my professional capacity as a systems administrator based on more than a decade's everyday experience with Linux (in many incarnations) there are still significant hardware issues that plague support. You cannot simply buy any old off-the-shelf system and have it work properly. For all the ills and evils of Microsoft's business strategies, hardware support remains superior within the Microsoft ecosystem.

@eulampios

First off, Intel Video Drivers (especially for anything Nahalem or Older) are ass. they are not regular ass, they are as special kind of ass for which an entirely separate wing of hell was created.

nVidia anything is...well...Torvalds said it well. AMD isn't far behind. There are some binaries that work well in some configurations...and in others mysteriously cause X to lock hard, requiring me to drop to command line, INIT 3 and then INIT 5 again.

This is nothing like the stability of Windows 7 on (for example) my Alienware MX18. I haven’t rebooted that thing in about 6 months. Lots of hibernating and suspending, not a single reboot. Still runs my games like a charm.

I’ve had issues with TCP offloading using Broadcom-based NICs, as well as older Intel NICs. This used to be a big issue under Windows 2003, but went away (mostly) on these same cards with Server 2008 R2. For love nor money I can’t get them to behave in CentOS unless I kill all the offloading with fire.

I have issues with Adpatec RAID cards under Linux. Specifically 3805 series cards with the latest firmware. I have had all sorts of problem with Ricoh card readers under both Ubuntu and FC17 and there is a very special place in my heart reserved for the trauma induced by trying to get various flavours of barcode and slip printer to work.

Oh, and I have a whole 5-page unpublished article on the rageface caused by CentOS 5/6 and some Intel Atom board I bought a dozen of. There is some absolutely bizarre bug in the NIC drivers. If you have an add-in-gigabit Ethernet card, then every single device on the same broadcast domain must talk at the same speed, or the NIC freaks out and throttles everything to 1Mbit/sec.

No, I don’t understand it etiher. Yes, this is a switched environment. No, I’m not crazy, this is completely reproducible across multiple pieces of hardware, and verified by four other sysadmins.

If I have a 1Gbit NIC attached to a gigabit switch and there is a 100Mbit –only device on that same switch, this Atom box will suddenly not communicate at anything faster than 1Mbit until you reboot it. That’s with all the offloading turned off, everything. Both NICs on the system (both Intel-based, but different models) will behave this way. Use only one NIC? No problem. Use a Broadcom or Realtek instead of an Intel for the add-on? No problem.

Damned if I know why, but it was frustrating as hell and cost me about a week of my life.

I run into these things all the time with Linux. I used to run into this crap with Windows…but most of that went away around the time Server 2008 R2 started becoming mainstream.

Understand me here; I’m not bashing Linux. I use it all the time. But I have yet to find a distro – any distro – that I can simply install on any random bit of hardware I pick up at the local computer shop and start playing games.

Run a webserver with Webmin, or a nice ridiculous DPI firewall? Usually. (Except for that one NIC bug…)

But “just works” desktop? Linux just isn’t there yet, sorry. Maybe with moves from companies like Dell and this Ultrabook, one day it will be.

[eulampios]

strange hardware

Trevor, pretty unlucky, indeed. You must be choosing some strange hardware. Haven't tried i7 yet, however did not hear about X lock-ups there either. Googling for nehalem does not get much at all.... Some nvidia chips get soft and hard lock-ups. That's why I suggested 2d instead of 3d, like mate and metacity... ATI radeon improved a lot thanks to AMD and nvidia is lagging so much behind now.

PS It's also a coincidence that your articles are almost entirely about Windows reviews?

PPS Win7 might have improved w.r. to XP. 7 years ago a new Dell e510 machine started to have glitches in 2 weeks, I installed Fedora Core (no sound for a couple months), then Windows died and succumbed to Linux (now Ubuntu LTS) hence is running and functioning flawlessly as both server and desktop (month of uptime)...

[Trevor_Pott]

Re: strange hardware

What does 2D get me? Not the games I want to play! If I was going to use 2D, I might as well stick to Webmin. 2D is never a solution.

As to my articles being mostly about Windows...it's what I use the most! I may use Linux on servers and on my personal desktop, but Microsoft is still the bulk of the deployed ecosystem. I have a few Apple shops; and there may be an Apple article or two in the works. (I haven't decided.)

Writing Linux articles? That's tricky business. I have a lot to say about Linux…but I really just don’t have the inclination to deal with the Linux community. The chest-thumping die-hard Microsoft fans are a hard enough group to stomach. I am both a stupid, autistic, “hive-mind” freetard because I dare criticise Microsoft…and a paid shill because I dare praise them where and when praise is due.

Given that I “write what I know,” (I.E. my experience,) and that Apple is rapidly displacing Microsoft on the desktop (and Linux on the server) and am faced with a conundrum; which group do I tackle next? Make even the smallest mistake – either a technical error, or *gasp* choosing the wrong distro/not compiling from source/use the wrong package manager/whatever and the Linux crowd will discover whether or not my soul does indeed blend.

the other option is to wade into the squirming masses of fanbois and lose all faith in humanity. At least with the Windows die-hards I know exactly what I’m getting. I’ve lived that world for decades; I know how they think, how they troll and how to troll back.

So not writing about Linux; fear? Trepidation, at the very least. If I go start shifting what I write about over towards the Linux work I do…then I really won’t have enough “glowing praise” articles to keep the pengunistas happy. There will be honest criticism; something that – from experience – triggers apoplectic rage.

But just for you, I’ll write one tonight. We shall see.

[Trevor_Pott]

Re: strange hardware

Side note: I also find it funny that I have gotten stupid, autistic, hive-minded and freetard as insults on a number of occasions.

Criticising Microsoft

Criticising copyright maximalism

Explaining the science of climate change

Explaining that it actually violates the laws of physics for cell phones to cause cancer

Providing evidence that conclusively disproves vaccines cause autism

Providing a list of evidence to support the argument that publicly funded health care systems are in fact significantly cheaper per citizen while providing higher levels of care when compared to the privatised American model.

I leave the conclusions to be drawn from this as an exercise for the reader.

[eulampios]

Re: strange hardware

month of uptime)...

I meant months of uptime until the next kernel update

[Chemist]

Re: Ultrabook with Ubuntu and Steam for Linux?

"I am describing issues I am having right now, today"

We will just have to disagree - I use all sorts of hardware, most of it self-built but I never wonder if Linux will run on it - I just expect it will. The only research I do is to checks scanners and wifi cards but the situation with wifi is that I expect it to work. I've mainly stuck with one distribution (Suse and now OpenSuse) except for VMs and expect to install in ~30 mins. I've done 8 installations in the last 12 months on several dual-core Intel and AMD, dual-core Atom (server that runs full-time and is the ssh access to my network when I'm away), single core atom netbook (upgraded from the rubbish Linux distro it came with) , old AMD 64 and a celeron laptop - donated to me after the owner gave up on it after a Windows update failed ). all with Intel or nVidia graphics - no issues, no crashes or lock-ups it just all works.

[Trevor_Pott]

Re: Ultrabook with Ubuntu and Steam for Linux?

I've probably installed Ubuntu, Fedora or CentOS on 200 different hardware configurations in the past 3 months. ~95% of them "work," where "work" is defined as "meets the minimum functionality for that device. ~60% of them actually work, where "work" is "utilises the full functionality of a device, such as TCP offloading or full 3d graphics."

~5% of hardware configurations won’t work at all, and require a component swap. Such is my life with Linux; and the diversity of hardware I work with.

[Chemist]

Re: Ultrabook with Ubuntu and Steam for Linux?

"~60% of them actually work,"

I'm suprised and impressed that you have persisted I admit. On the other hand I'm amazed at this - in 17 years of using ( personal and professional ) and installing Linux I've never encountered anything like this - even in the old compile your own kernel days. The most has been the odd wifi driver or fingerprint reader on a laptop but not for years - even hardware stereo graphics with liquid-crystal specs (and that was 7or 8 years ago) or VDPAU hardware acceleration of H264 1080p/50 video have been rock solid.

Good luck with your endeavours

[Trevor_Pott]

Re: Ultrabook with Ubuntu and Steam for Linux?

Why wouldn't I persist? Windows XP/2003 wasn't much better, stats-wise. How much time did we spend back then finding exactly the right driver ToE to work, or for that video game to not crash? We don't think of it like that, because "that's just the way it is." I look at Linux the same way. Most people don't go all the way, get every hardware element to work as its designers intended. I do. It's part of being a sysadmin; it simply comes with the job.

"It passes packets" ian't good enough; I want tcp offloading. "The desktop works in 2D" isn't good enough; I want my games in WINE to be delivering 200fps. "Works" and "works properly" are separate concepts; and the latter is very much hit-or-miss in the Linux world at the moment.

This may be largely due to vendors being douches - isn't it always? - but it still degrades the value of Linux in a desktop role.

[eulampios]

@Trevor

How much time did we spend back then finding exactly the right driver

In Linux most drivers, esp. free ones, are included in the kernel, so you would not have to "spend your time looking for them" Even proprietary crap can be semi-automated in many distros , such as the ugly nVidia ones.

"The desktop works in 2D" isn't good enough;

Yes, this one of many reasons why GNU/Linux is more appealing. My two machines (7 year old P4 intel and x200M ati cheapo laptop) were never intended to be 3d, they are now and very efficiently.

want my games in WINE to be delivering 200fps.

You want too much if I can dare to say this. The games intended to work on completely foreign OS are expected to work on Linux? Not very interested in games here. No Windows desktop, be it Vista or Win 7 are even close to what X desktops are delivering (say, mate+compiz)

As far as the wine is concerned, I recall being able to install an old 32bit windows app (Exp 5.0) on 32bit Ubuntu and FreeBSD as well as remotely on 64bit Ubuntu server, while a friend could not on her 64bit Vista laptop.

And many vendors are douches, indeed

[Trevor_Pott]

Re: @Trevor

@eulampios

I don't think you hold your operating system choices to much of a standard. "2D is good enough?" No. A properly set up system will deliver me 200fps on my games, even when running in WINE.

You talk a lot about how much "better" Linux is than Windows, but at the same time simply pooh-pooh any desire I have to actually utilise the performance of my hardware as irrelevant.

If all you are looking for is a flat, basic, 2D environment that can run a command line…then Linux will do that on just about any hardware. I’m sorry to tell you however that this isn’t good enough. This isn’t “working.’

My phone provides superior performance to that.

A desktop needs to be able to do everything I throw at it. Compile code, run 3D simulations, play games, remote into other computers, run virtual machines, run peripherals, browse the internet, play multimedia, serve as a communications center, teleconference with people around the world, operate a colour calibratable monitor using DDC/CI, and so very much more.

Bare bones basic functionality is fine…for a child’s toy. Any desktop I use – or deliver to a customer – is going to be able to make full use of its hardware. In the Linux world that pretty universally means not relying on the drivers built into the kernel.

If all you want is a palm pilot, grand. I need me a proper smartphone. If all you want is Windows 3.1-era tech, grand. I want colour calibrated real-time 3D with blinding FPS and 10.2 smell-o-vision in sensesurround. Anything less than the ability to use every single feature of the hardware I purchase is a failure of the installed software.

So I'm not a "fan" of any software. Or any development houses. I'm not emotionally attached to any operating system, application or programming philosophy. I use whatever works and works best. What helps me get the most productivity for the least amount of money, effort and support hours.

Sometimes that is Linux, but just as often…it’s not.

[eulampios]

Re: @Trevor

"2D is good enough?" No. A properly set up system will deliver me 200fps on my games, even when running in WINE.

Didn't I say that my old, low specs hw is delivering 3d while was doomed to be underdogs of the Windows world. Although from what I hear some of it with Win7 might have been possible here. A lot of my friends, neighbors get Ubuntu/Mint installed (with my help) when their Windows refuses to boot. They never look back again...

Think about the hardware reqs discrepancy. "Comparable" setup of Windows would need much more than a GNU/Linux distro.

Once again, a program designed to work on Windows should not be expected to work on Linux/BSD even with help of wine (both soft and red:). All complains must be addresses to those designing these very game, not to those who write the drivers, nor even those who maintain the WINE project.

It is even demanding of an expectation to whine about the LlibreOffice incomplete 100% compatibility with the MSo formats.

As far as the Win7 expectation is concerned. Say, you have a flash drive which you partition into multiple fat32 ones. You'd expect Win7 to recognize them all? Noway. You have a router you'd like to use to connect two win7 machines locally (no ISP is involved) and transfer some files back and forth. It should just work as a basic functionality, right? -- noway. An there is so many out-of-the-box noways out-there...

If all you are looking for is a flat, basic, 2D environment that can run a command line…then Linux will

While any version of windows will not run a proper command line (unless you install cygwin). PS is BS, AMOF. And give that nice terminal emulator for Windows? Anything similar to Emacs/vim? You forgot to mention that there are so many other difficulties involving Windows, like running an AV, no central repositories for all of the software, many reboots after updates and so on...

So I'm not a "fan" of any software.

You are a little selective though. And BTW, your Linux complaints look to me a bit pretentious...

[Trevor_Pott]

Re: @Trevor

Maybe my Linux complaints are pretentious. Oh well, so be it. When I pay money for something, it had damned well better deliver. Whether that be hardware or software.

Unlike some, I don’t seek out “free, as in beer.” I do have a philosophical soft spot for “free, as in speech,” however I prefer “actually works” to both. When I encounter an open source project that I end up using, I typically find a way to donate money to it.

With RHEL, this is straightforward: I pay for support. Other projects – such as CentOS or Apache – require me to hunt a donation button. On occasion, I even run into someone who outright refuses to let me donate (the Notepad++ guy springs to mind.) In general however, I believe that a man’s labours deserve to be rewarded. I don’t like to owe anything to anyone; legally or morally.

By the same token, I expect anyone working on anything to have pride in their work. I expect every person who undertakes a task – from flipping burgers to writing a kernel – to give it the absolute best they possibly can. If and when I encounter professional apathy I take my custom elsewhere.

Is demanding commitment and quality pretentious? I suppose only the reader can answer that. I can honestly say that I try very hard to meet the same standards I set for other people. When I slack off, I am typically quite unhappy with myself and end up feeling guilty enough to kick my own ass back into working hard.

So this colours how I approach computer selection. Be it software or hardware, I expect whatever I am putting on my systems to work and work well. For the most part, Linux does. But Linux is certainly not perfect. There are flaws and there are areas that need improvement.

Some of these areas are things that open source developers can do nothing about; they rely on vendors to pull their socks up and do the right thing. While these issues may not be the “fault” of the open source community, failure of vendors to work with the open source community does in fact diminish the value of Linux (and similar projects) when trying to create a workable, production-ready environment.

Similarly, there are issues within the open source community itself. Communications issues, personality conflicts, jihads about every which little thing. These issues come to a head in the weirdest ways. An upstream developer outright refusing to make a minor change for philosophical reasons, the result of which is that their package has to either be maintained by a third party in order to make it into certain distributions or that it simply never does.

Security updates can lag behind for these sorts of reasons too, as can bugfixes. How many times have I had to completely reinstall an anti-spam VM with a newer distro because bloody ClamAV and Fedora/Ubuntu/RHEL couldn’t get whatever communications issue they have solved enough to get the latest ClamAV versions into the repo? For the record: this happens about once every 8 months.

Criticising the open source community – and the vendor community – for failing to work together isn’t blasphemy. It isn’t an attack on you, personally, your beliefs or some sort of failure in my critical thinking capability.

There are flaws in Linux. There are flaws in Windows. There are flaws in every flavour of Unix, VMS, OSX and any other operating system, application, business process, economic model, political philosophy and so forth that you care to name.

To allow yourself to become so completely wedded to anything – corporation, operating system, philosophy, political ideology – that you take every criticism as a personal slight is to limit your own thinking and ability to objectively consider alternatives.

I believe it is morally, ethically, philosophically and economically wrong to alter our expectations regarding software and hardware to suit what is available. I far prefer the model where we as consumers, systems administrators and business owners continually hold the products we purchase and the projects we support to ever higher standards.

This – in my opinion – is what drives innovation. Voting with out wallets is one tool; providing support in terms of manpower, knowledge or otherwise is another. Continually pushing barriers and never being satisfied with “good enough” is how we get “better.”

You make comments about how a “comparable” windows setup needs more resources than a Linux one. I call utter bullshit on that. Maybe you haven’t noticed, but in the past ten years, Microsoft got this “ambition” thing down pat. Windows 7 can kick some serious ass, even on low-spec machines.

If you want to go even lower spec, there’s Windows core for servers, Windows Mobile and Windows Phone for ARM. Believe it or not, these systems pack quite a punch, even on systems I wouldn’t have thought it possible for them to operate on.

Feature for feature, I honestly believe that Windows can match Linux for performance. It is only with a great deal of intellectual dishonesty (comparing a stripped down Linux GUI with zero bells and whistles to a full-fat, all-the-shiny-on Windows GUI, for example) that you can really make Linux come out ahead.

I can make Windows 7 (classic mode) about as responsive on my crappy single core P4 1Gig as XFCE in CentOS6. Then again, I’ve got 15 years as a Windows admin, and at least 10 working with Linux. I know what I’m doing in both arenas.

Despite this, standing up and saying “hey, you know what, you’re wrong about Windows” doesn’t make me a Windows fanboy. My posting history – in the comments as well as my articles, my personal website and my twitter account – will verify that.

I’m an agnostic; I care about the best tool for the job, period.

So I maintain: sometimes that’s Linux…but just as often not. Windows owns the desktop for a reason, though Linux is slowly getting better.

Dell being willing to support an Ultrabook shipping Linux is huge. It could mean that we will finally see the kind of pressure we need brought to bear against vendors to finally bring Linux the rest of the way towards a true competitor with Microsoft on the desktop.

Apple is in the mix too; what works for Apple should more-or-less work for Linux, and Valve’s nice Steam-for-Ubuntu announcement brings yet another 800lb gorilla into the fight. (Indeed, I am of the opinion that the Valve console rumours will end up being a Steam-for-Ubuntu box on a fixed set of hardware…but that is probably just wishful thinking on my part.)

The point is: an open source philosophy and happy thoughts aren’t enough to make Linux truly competitive on the desktop. Slapping recalcitrant vendors around with a trout is periodically required. In the history of Linux as an operating system, “the community” has had precious few victories in this regard. Now, with Google, Apple, Dell and Valve having vested interests in Linux/Unix drivers, we might finally see the kind of hardware support that “pretentious” folk like me demand of our systems.

At that point, a prominent presence on the desktop becomes a very real possibility.

[eulampios]

Re: @Trevor

I agree with you on the statement that nothing is perfect, including GNU/Linux.

Freedom is a necessity realized through experience of dealing with lock-ins, poor quality and limitations of proprietary monopolistic products etc. It seems there is no other way, like natural selection in the evolution process.

BTW, it's nice you mentioned Windows Core. It is stripped down variant of Windows Server 2008R that is said to be GUI-less, however uses some Windowy application, like notepad, time&zone settings etc. It's nice that it finally occurred to MSFT.. in 2007 or is 2008? Ok let's compare the minimum reqs of Win Core 2008R and Debian Squeeze: 3.5GB vs 1GB disk space, and 256/512MB vs 64 MB of RAM.

Windows owns the desktop for a reason, though Linux is slowly getting better.

Take Dell or most OEM's that wouldn't offer compensation for Windows license. Why is that, isn't there any contractual commitment, a part of that non-disclosure tune Microsoft has been whistling for decades? Linux desktop is not given a chance in those circumstances. Why should independent parties be allowed to collude is an interesting question the authorities seem to be deaf to.

Hence I am not interested to participate in this game called "Sputnik"

[Trevor_Pott]

Re: @Trevor

@eulampios Careful now, your bias and intellectual dishonesty is showing. Windows Core does a hell of a lot more than Debian squeeze. Yet you insist on comparing them, why? Windows Core's more direct comparison is CentOS 6 without X installed. The install size and default RAM requirements, just by the by, are nearly identical in that situation. Also note that Windows Core - like all Windows since Vista - is an image based installer. It installs an image of a default instal that contains its complete package repository. So all that you need to add any of the features included with the OS is copied to the disk at that time, not pulled from a remote repository.

It is of interest to me that you can't make technical distinctions like this.

Furthering my concern regarding your bias is that you brush aside valid concerns regarding the state of Linux’s desktop readiness with a thinly veiled conspiracy theory. Let me try to spell something out for you here: the problem with Linux on Tier 1 hardware is the chicken and the egg.

Linux takes more money to prototype and eventually support in a desktop environment due to limited hardware support. (All of us “pretentious” people demanding things like graphics cards that work well enough to play games or run multimedia without artifacts.) The costs on this won’t go down until more Tier 1 OEMs offer Linux on their devices, thus having a vested financial interest in bringing requisite pressure to bear on device manufacturers to provide proper support.

Without pressure from Tier 1s, device manufacturers have no reason to provide support, so there is crappy driver support which in turn means that Tier 1s don’t want to ship Linux.

Compare this to Microsoft where Microsoft itself is the size of two or three Tier 1 players on its own. Here Microsoft can lean on manufacturers right alongside the Tier 1 OEMs. There are thus good reasons to ship Microsoft on your hardware.

No conspiracies are required here; shipping Microsoft instead of Linux is a sound financial decision.

So for this reason I will support Dell’s Linux Ultrabook. This is Dell taking a risk. They are inserting themselves into this chicken-and-egg cycle here. They will not make money on this Ultrabook and they know it…but they are doing it anyways. They are giving open source a chance here by attempting to create a market that can eventually bring the kind of pressure to bear on manufacturers that the Microsoft ecosystem to exert.

Dell’s move here might well be one of the only chances that open source gets this decade for a real, honest to god chance at becoming something real in the desktop space.

And you – with your well demonstrated pro-open source, anti-Microsoft bias – want to piss on that olive branch? Out of what…some offence taken at actions a decade ago that you mistakenly believe indicate back room collusion must still be occurring today?

Wow.

Just...wow...

[eulampios]

Re: @Trevor

your bias and intellectual dishonesty is showing...

It sounds kind of insulting now. You said this. It was exactly my feeling about selective judgement of the Linux flaws. I am not trying to cite the "speck vs. log in the eye" parable. However, the bias and some vision obstruction is well discernible even when you put or rather try a tux coat on.

Windows Core does a hell of a lot more than Debian squeeze.

What is it? Can you name the difference? Here are the links wincore and debian As an experience Linux admin you should know what a netinst cd install is. I used and liked that with FreeBSD net/sysinstall when played with the red daemon. You can configure it much better and finer than any Windows headless iso image available. Yes with this type install you have access to the full repository as well, you can aptitude any time later too.

As a comparison, "sudo aptitude install nginx apache bind9 openldap" says on my lmde linux mint to occupy 4,260 kB after unpacking. I also found dpkg-query that postfix, mutt, postgresql, full cups (with pyton) and would be using 39 MB (+70MB of emacs for me personally)

Unless you tell me what does Windows Core do a hell lot more than Debian Squeeze...

And so why doesn't Dell have a Windows compensation program? Any technical difficulties? That would a great help for non-Windows, open source initiatives. Until it happens, Dell is a Redmond's slave. And this is my "no" vote. I better get a superior and cheaper Asus machine....

[Trevor_Pott]

Re: @Trevor

@eulampios There is no “selective judgment of the Linux flaws.” I praised Linux as well as criticized it. I use it as well as Windows. I have a long history of discussing the benefits and flaws of all platforms; you seem incapable of making the distinction. I believe that you have succumbed to brand-image tribalism, and that it is distorting your perception of reality.

Here is a list of all the roles and features available in Windows Core. They may not be role or features you would use, but when you haughtily try to compare your bare-bones install of Linux to Server Core you are being intellectually dishonest. As mentioned above, the install size for Windows Core includes an entire local repository required to install every single feature and role on that list. These are not merely “cut down” versions of those features, either…they are the full versions; the best Microsoft can bring to bear.

Microsoft hasn’t released for the public a “Debian squeeze”- size version of Windows – though builds do exist – however Server Core is a certainly a mid-range option. It has a lot of the shiny ripped out to optimise performance and lower attack surface. More to the point; Server 2012 does it better than Server 2008 R2 did; Microsoft has learned, and they are adapting fast.

Dell doesn’t have a Windows compensation plan because their margins are already razor thin. If you want to scream at Dell, please learn the economics of Tier 1 PCs first. Dell put together a PC and include an operating system then sell it to you below their cost. That might not make sense to you, but it is true. Where they are making their money per unit – what brings the PC out of the red and gives them those few precious points of margin – are the add-on applications like Anti virus trials or the Office 2010 trial.

These applications only run on Windows. So what is Dells’ choice here? They can sell you the same hardware for more money - at which point people who don’t understand the economics of Tier 1 consumer PCs start screaming – or they can simply choose not to offer them at all.

They can’t ship you a PC without an OS, because then they would be taking a loss on that PC. (Because they can’t ship you pre-installed trail versions of the software that is actually providing them revenue!)

So they spend the ~$35 to put Windows on the computer (that’s all that Dell pays per Windows license,) and add trial software that they receive ~$300 for.

That’s why this Ultrabook is such an interesting play; Dell is actually subsidising Linux on the desktop by doing this. They will lose money on every unit sold. But they are doing it anyways.

There is no giant conspiracy excepting in your own mind, sirrah. There is simply the crappy reality of economics. There are no frakking margins in selling hardware whatsoever. Dell’s requirement to maintain an American workforce (for government contracts, etc.) means that they can’t simply work a bunch of Chinese people to death and live off 1% margins. They need 3-4% per system of they are done.

So Dell takes the deal with the unsavoury software companies and installs the trial versions. In exchange we get support staff who almost know what they are doing and speak a language we can almost comprehend, with a slightly higher chance of not having worked some child to death in a labour pit full of toxic chemicals.

For that, you have to put up with a computer that ships with Windows. Which you can uninstall. The alternative – which is unpalatable to consumers everywhere – is paying $30 or $40 more per system.

The “free market” decided. You decided. Your choices shape the decisions of companies like Dell...and their competitors.

[eulampios]

@Trevor and your technical honesty

Here is a list of all the roles and features available in Windows Core.

What point are trying to make with this list exactly? Long list - ergo a lot! You are failing to specify exactly which of these or their analogs won't fit in that 1 gig of the the Debian server install?

Take this:UpdateServices

UpdateServices-API

UpdateServices-Database

UpdateServices-RSAT

UpdateServices-Services

UpdateServices-UI

You're trying to say that it's missing on any of the major GNU/Linux distros? Debian would only use one item: "aptitude". Should I also point you to the list of all apache/nginx and/or perl/php/python modules? It's going to be long as well.

Both you and the link would not provide any disk usage estimate and do not have the figures about the minimum "bare bones" system. Well, Trevor, I don't buy that, maybe someone that has no idea about Servers, Linux and Windows will.

I praised Linux as well as criticized it.

When you criticized it, you didn't seem to be supported by most of the commenters above that use Linux every day.

Most of them were not overly excited about this whole "Sputnik" thing. Why would you call something pretty mediocre Спутник, the name of the first man made device ever to go to space?

So they spend the ~$35 to put Windows on the computer (that’s all that Dell pays per Windows license,) and add trial software that they receive ~$300 for.

All kinds of them, Basic, Home, Premium, Professional? And you have the supporting links for it?

BTW, you might still believe in your own "technical honesty", sorry, but now I simply don't.

[Trevor_Pott]

Re: @Trevor and your technical honesty

@eulampios the point of the list is to allow you to do your own homework. I do have a few other things to do with my time. Suffice it to say that should you go feature-for-feature Debian to Windows and set up that Debian install so that the repo files for all of those possible features were installed locally it owul dbe about the same size as Windows core. I can make most assuredly make a comparably equipped Linux into something smaller than Windows Core…but only if I use the option to leave the repo files on the internet on a “download as needed basis.”

So in short: the point of the list is to point that you are being intellectually dishonest if you do not compare like for like. I do install CentOS systems that are roughly comparable to Windows Core in size all the time. Once the repos are copied locally, (most of these systems are “fire and forget,” and you want your future self to have the repo files 10 years down the road,) it is generally within a few hundred megs of a Windows Core install.

As to trying to back yup your hatred for Microsoft/Dell…are you seriously trotting out product naming as a way of attempting to attack them? Really? There goes your credibility.

Regarding the price that Dell pays per Windows license, I have absolutely no idea which version of Windows that is for. I would have to go back and check to be certain. I am under the impression it is Home Premium, with Pro being $43.

As to supporting links for that information: use Google. This is fairly broadly available information, and I am not remotely inclined to do your homework for you. I am under the distinct impression that I could provide you a contract signed in blood by Michael Dell and Steve Ballmer and you still wouldn’t buy it. It doesn’t fit your conspiracy theory and you aren’t interested in evidence outside that box.

Naturally of course this would make you incapable of believing in my “technical honesty,” because I am able to look at the facts available to me and draw a conclusion that doesn’t involve a secret conspiracy to keep Linux sidelined. Worse, I am able to look at the available evidence and believe that Microsoft’s operating systems may well be legitimate, worthy competition for Linux in most circumstances!

Horror!

Now, if only both of those opinions weren’t supported by not only the plurality of available evidence as well as the majority of sysadmins serving companies both small and large. I might buy your “oppressed by the man” theories then.

As it stands however, support for the conspiracy theory is fractional at best. Support for “Microsoft is incapable of competing with Linux on a technical level” is slightly higher, but still fractional. You might as well be standing there screaming into the void that Climate Change is a conspiracy and there “is still broad scientific debate.”

The support of less than 5% of subject matter experts does not make for broad debate at all. More to the point, it borders on clinically paranoid to believe that hundreds of organizations and hundreds of thousands of people are all working together to promote climate change/keep Linux down/whatever else.

Instead, you should start looking at the issues raised by the people who make the decisions to fund – or not – front line Linux offerings and ask yourself how they can be resolved. Linux won’t be ready for the desktop – and sold as such – until the issues at hand are dealt with.

Also: for the record…anecdotal evidence when discussing hardware compatibility is irrelevant. “But it works for me!” means nothing. The subset of hardware you’ve worked with is only ever going to be a fraction of what’s available. More to the point, you have repeatedly demonstrated that what you expect from your hardware is different than people like me…and the kinds of people who have to sell and support equipment on the market.

Your life is one narrow slit through which the world can be perceived. What the Dells of this world have to cope with is far vaster. Try to bear that in mind next time you start worrying about the conspiracy.

[eulampios]

@Trevor_Pott

>>Frankly, I’m sick and tired of dealing with shitty driver support on Linux. (I’m look at you, nVidia, Intel and AMD!) I want the damned thing to “just work.”

Trevor, sorry for your troubles on "Linux drivers support", however, I am wondering, what exactly is wrong with AMD or Intel graphic drivers? What exactly doesn't work? A good advice is to stay away from nVidia. "Fuck nVidia !" , as the saying goes. Or , in case you're unlucky to have it stick to nouveau (with 2d it's pretty stable).

Seriously, I've tried many machines and haven't had problems with any of them. I carry an Ubuntu and a few Mints on two flash dives -- all of them boot faster than Win7 lets me login. (Old Ubuntu has Emacs, PostgreSQL along with other delicacies the stupid Win7 is missing.) What am I doing wrong?

[The BigYin]

Re: Ultrabook with Ubuntu and Steam for Linux?

@h4rm0ny

"but really why not just install Linux on any other laptop?"

Simple - you pay the (non-refundable, depending on OEM) MS tax and it gets counted as a Windows sale (adding to MS's PR clout). Much better to buy from a GNU/Linux supporting company (such as ZaReason) or a naked vendor (such as Novatech).

[GrumpyOldBloke]

Lost me at 720P

Hight powered device (i7/4GB/SSD etc) but which developers were pleading for the same rubbish display available on any low end laptop. Stretch a little, buy a mac and get lots of dots.

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux = Good idea, Ultrabook = Bad Idea

It is about time the mass market OEMs started pre-installing Linux on PCs. There is absolutely no need for Windows. Load the OS with OpenOffice or Libre and Firefox. Boom done.

Ultrabooks are a waste of time. An Intel ploy to sell their high end Ivy Bridge chips even though there is no need for them. All computing is done online using a server for the processing power. As long as a client OS can open a web browser and the occasional productivity application (assuming you're not using Google Docs), that is all the processing power that is required. They should start making PCs with ARM chips in them instead of going the other direction.

[Trevor_Pott]

Re: Linux = Good idea, Ultrabook = Bad Idea

They do. I have several. My favourite is the Asus Transformer. As I recall, Android is a Linux distribution, and the Asus Transformer very much so runs on an ARM processor.

I get 12 hours of typing into an RDP session while it is using WiFi to connect through my cell phone to the internet. Oh, and it's generally charging said cell phone off the USB port most of that time...

[Anonymous Coward]

Possibly another side-effect of Surface

The OEMs were previously so scared of MS, even though MS's commoditization of PCs was driving them out of business, that they would never have dared to make a serious push with Linux. Now that Microsoft has come at them head on with Surface, they are getting to the point where there is little to lose in upsetting Microsoft. What's the worst that could happen? Microsoft holds out on some rebates, which I am sure the Justice Department would get on them about, and threatens to take away the PCs businesses which are barely profitable.

[Christian Berger]

So.. uhm... why Dell?

I mean if Dell refuses to sell laptops without operating system, why should I buy them? In the laptop business there's actually competition. I can just buy a refurbished Thinkpad for a fraction of the price should I want to.

The name "Ultrabook" has already been burnt. For many people it now means an overpriced laptop with bad, often shiny, displays and average battery time.