back to article RIM: What's all the 'bleeding' fuss about BlackBerry developers?

Alec Saunders, RIM's VP of developer relations, wishes the press and analyst community would get its "bleeding" story straight about the BlackBerry developer community. On Friday, AllThingsD reported on a study by Baird Equity Research that showed BlackBerry developer loyalty at an all-time low and trending downward, claiming …


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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    This guy is like Adolf in his Bunker 1945, he is in denial.

    1. dotdavid

      Wow, Goodwin'd on the first comment!

  2. rogerpjr

    YOu lost me here...

    Whether that loyalty will pay off is questionable. RIM recently announced that BlackBerry App World has served up 3 billion downloads since it launched in 2009. By comparison, Apple's iTunes App Store had managed 10 billion downloads in the same amount of time, and its current figure is closer to 30 billion.

    SO is the 10 billion figure correct. Or the 30 bill.

    Either way the constant swipes against a company denigrate the article's cred.....

    DOn't have time to go into more details, but there are numerous other instances here showing you should just stick to the facts...

    1. undeadMonkey93

      Re: YOu lost me here...

      I'm presuming those extra 20 billion are from pre 2009. Simple.

    2. jai

      Re: YOu lost me here...

      it's simple maths really.

      AppWorld opened in 2009 - so that's about 3 years it's been open and in three years it's had 3 billion downloads.

      Averaging one billion per year, if you like.

      iTunes App Store opened in 2008. And after 3 years, it had reached 10 billion downloads. an average of 3.3 billion per year.

      it's now been open for 4 years, and the downloads are approaching 30 billion. raising the average to 7 billion per year.

      RIMs figures sound impressive by themselves, but in fact, they just confirm that they're at the back of the race and have a hell of a lot of work to do when/if their new OS is released to catch up with the Android/iOS pack at the front.

  3. borrel boy
    Thumb Down

    Look Alex -

    Doesn't matter who you are whether you're VP or otherwise - you've a big problem in RIM because you've FORGOTTEN how to listen. Nobody can get in touch with any persons from Development when there's a problem because "you're all either out at lunch" discussing fixes or discussing fixes you've a challenge fixing "behind closed doors" ! I know of MAJOR SECURITY FLAWS THAT EXIST WITHIN THE BLACKBERRY PLATFORM but DO YOU THINK I COULD GET TO COMMUNICATE [unlike HOW YOU DO] with ANY PERSONS IN RIM to discuss the vulnerabilites ?

    NOW you've made yourself vulnerable by way of your years of inaction as EVERYBODY"S watching YOU.

    I've had my phone changed AT LEAST 8 TIMES or a period from a contract from 24 months.

    You don't listen - until you're on the floor like most of use who have Blackberries you'll REMAIN "perplexed" until you in RIM LEARN to understand there are persons like me out there that need to be listened to.

    You breathe the same air, you eat the same food, "you dream the same dream" - just like everybody else !

    Learn to LISTEN !

    1. asdf


      Well you have the broken English of an Eastern European hacker if nothing else.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      relax man

  4. bhtooefr

    I could actually believe that they're not losing developers...

    ....when you only have five developers in the first place, if none of them leave, you're not losing developers.

    RIM would have to attract developers before they could lose any.

    1. CheesyTheClown
      Thumb Up

      Re: I could actually believe that they're not losing developers...

      It strikes me that the only developers they have are either crapware developers or the developers which produce apps for every platform because they have the budgets to do it. Like Microsoft has written some apps for the platform, but they're the basic kinds of apps. There are no serious games or business apps in the store and almost all the downloads they brag about on their app page are skins.

      That being said, BlackBerry is a great generation 2 phone. Meaning, if you just need a so-so web browser and the ability to send messages, it's really good. I think having a premium "non-smart phone" is great for guys in ties and grannies. Nokia is screwing up on that now and I think Blackberry can move in on that scene now. They just need to cut the price in half or less and they can dominate that market. Big buttons for seeing impaired would help too.

      1. sabba

        Re: I could actually believe that they're not losing developers...

        I like my Blackberry. It does everything I need to run my business when I am on the road and in a compact / robust package. I can send and receive emails, SMS, MMS etc. and it has GPS although it's true to say the quality is not that great plus a passable camera for the times I need to take some quick snaps of a whiteboard. If I want full internet capability I'll use my MBA or iPad.

        I for one hope that Blackberry survive as I don't want or need the distraction of a full media centre / games machine in my pocket.

  5. This post has been deleted by a moderator

  6. qwarty

    in denial

    Does anyone outside RIM expect BB10 to be anything other than a flop? It wouldn't cost much to cover bets with android and wp8 developments so maybe this is happening behind the scenes. Otherwise can't see them lasting a year.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: in denial

      Delaying it was a huge mistake. Unless of course it is really unstable and releasing it would destroy their reputation further.

      When it does come out it will have to be pretty special to keep them afloat.

  7. dotdavid

    "Denies that app hackers are fleeing the platform"

    "Look, I spoke to them both last week and they assured me they had absolutely no plans to stop developing for Blackberry OS"

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Open up GAAPS

    No GAAPS, No apps, no users.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward


    As a generally negative bstard and a Blackberry user I can't help feeling some of the RIM woes are driven by trends more than actual users leaving the platform.

    As a business tool they tend to work, we have a dozen or so and in the cycle of "daily fails" the Blackberries are normally quiet, that means a lot to SME business.

    In my location and use, I have to remember to charge mine once a week or so.

    I know other things are "cool" and have X,Y and Z features the Blackberries don't but many people are employed to "do stuff" that the Blackberry does just fine and keeps doing while others are looking for a charger to borrow.

    I hope they do listen and survive if only because the fashionable "tunes", "games" and "cool" are not the same motivators that build a solid business device IMHO.

    Oh and if "borrel boy" is serious listen to him, businesses seem to fail these days when management begin to believe their own spin and that bonuses are actually validation of good performance.

  10. DrXym Silver badge

    They treat their devs pretty well

    They sent me a PlayBook. I can't say many other platforms have done that. Perhaps it's desperation or surplus stock but they still did it. I think their dev tools are fairly good although it's a huge pain in the backside to push an update compared to Android marketplace.

    1. Sargs

      Re: They treat their devs pretty well

      RIM sent me a Playbook, Nokia sent me a Lumia 800. I had hoped the Mail Preference Service would stop people sending me junk.

  11. JeffyPooh

    News: $147M

    RIM patent judgment. Not good news.

  12. Nathan 6

    Maybe all those adobe AIR developers will finally materialize?

    When I first read about BB new OS, I went looking for what they add to offer their current Java devs. Answer, nothing! After scoping my Jaw of the flaw, can't realize no one was driving the ship at that point at RIM.

    The only thing that can save RIM now to get mass developer interest is to OS 10, is to implement Java SE embedded ( This is not Java ME that's in the current BB OS, but a full Java SE stack with some optional stuff removed. They would probable just have to implement a mobile swing profile for graphics, or built something on JavaFX, and hardware access API. In any case it's would get a bunch of Java devs on onboard, since the dev tooling will be what they are already used to.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    From a developer perspective

    As a developer who has had the misfortune of having to develop an app for a Blackberries, I will NEVER give RIM another chance.

    1. Their dev environement sucks.

    2. Too many handsets with too many different OS versions, the result is as much fragmentation as Android - except it's much worse because apps are guaranteed to behave differently on each device, and there is no framework supplied method for dealing with different screen resolutions.

    3. Testing on a device usually requires a reboot, which can take over a minute on some devices. I have sat through over a thousand of these.

    4. Java ME sucks. Not the fault of RIM, but their devices use it.

    5. No stack traces unless you do a hacky work around, lets just make it really difficult to figure out what went wrong shall we.

    6. To deploy apps on a physical device requires signing via a RIM server. Not only does this take ages, but also the server has had periods of being frequently down. Got a problem that only manifests itself on a physical handset? Expect to spend days on it rather than hours.

    If asked to do another blackberry app I will simply refuse. I have better things to do with my life.

    If and when RIM release OS 10 I will not be trying it.

  14. Trygve

    In Summary: Blackberry are the new Palm

    Used to be great once upon a time.

    I'd happily swap my Curve for the old blue jobby with a physical scroll wheel and the b&w screen, loved that thing. It's not like it's ever used for anything else than sending plaintext email, so it's not like the new version even has any meaningful extra functionality.

  15. Boris Winkle

    ""According to Saunders, RIM's developer events are well attended, and the number of vendors using BlackBerry App World, RIM's app store, has grown 157 per cent in the last year.""

    Love it when a company uses percentages...

  16. austerusz

    Stop and think

    "Stop and think" that's my message to RIM.

    RIM needs to find its focus, the customer type it wants to reach.

    Apple has a good clear focus on its controlled environment where the platform is boxed in and users must only focus on what to buy from the App Store. Presentation, interoperability with open (non-Apple) systems is beyond the point.

    Android cohorts? Media, media, media & networking. Do everything, with anyone, anywhere. No holds barred on activities.

    See what I'm getting at? RIM has a reputation in the business world and it should focus there. If it can get a slice of the social/media market from the rest, ok. But don't try it. RIM has plenty to offer. Phone content encryption? Check. Secure mail aggregation via its own service? Check. Don't alienate your existing market by chasing after many rabbits at once.

  17. Anonymous Coward

    Developers RIMorce

    "I was shocked because the numbers in the report do not gel with what we're seeing in the real world,"

    I do wished he could of enlightened us as to which colour sky this `real world` of his had at the time!

    Not the best example for some but still indicative:

    Google+ Blackberry developers has like 18 in there circle. Blackberry Developer Community has 9. BlackBerry Developer Relations has 4 people circling them. Notw maybe not the best example but when you can find peoples lost cats with more followers, then you know somebody somewere is talking out of the wrong RIM hole.

    Given this would it be possible for RIM to stop wasting valuble news space and just email those handful of people actualy involved in Blackberry development as I'm sure its more effecient. Does seem that to contact all those involved that a email to there devices as apossed to some hyperbole of a statement would of been a betetr demonstration of there platform and numbers involved in the `blue sky` `real world` as opposed to whatever colour RIM is on.

    Advise to RIM, answear the phone, reply to developers when they have a query and actualy answear it as apposed to palming it as soon and stop speaking, everytime somebody at RIM speaks publicly the share price drops, just stop speaking and start doing, how hard can that be.

  18. roggcar

    I Personally will never again buy another Blackberry. I was with one provider and switched then my Blackberry had a fault my provider could not do it because it came from another provider, I went to the old provider and they said they could not mend it because i was no longer with them.

    I phoned Blackberry and they do not want to know.

    Apple on the other hand will replace if it is broken.

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