back to article Assange's Ecuador asylum bid has violated £200k UK bail, say cops

WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange™ – who is currently holed up in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London - has breached his UK bail conditions, Scotland Yard confirmed this morning. As we reported yesterday, the 40-year-old Australian is seeking political asylum in Ecuador, after his attempts to appeal against extradition to Sweden …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Equador will hold him until some minor fracas with the UK gov is resolved to their satisfaction. Then he will be punted to the curb just as a plod patrol car is cruising by the front gates.

    St. Julian is still circling the drain, but the results are inevitable.

    1. ItsNotMe
      Devil

      The fool should have gone to the Argentine Embassy.

      That way...maybe the Argentines could have traded him for the Falklands. Just a thought.

      1. Chad H.

        Re: The fool should have gone to the Argentine Embassy.

        I think we would have told them to keep him.

      2. PacketPusher

        Re: The fool should have gone to the Argentine Embassy.

        No way the UK would trade him for the Falklands, but the Argentinians might give him asylum just to twist the lions tail..

    2. Ian Michael Gumby
      Pint

      Doubtful

      Sorry, but my money is on them tossing him out after Ecuador can thumb their noses at the US. He'll soon lose his value and at such time they will decide he's too much of a prat to deal with and then boot his ass out.

  2. g e

    Petty, petty, petty

    Presumably he's not supposed to leave the country either. The Embassy is technically Ecuador, is it not, 24 hours a day?

    I wonder how long after the phonecall from the USA they came up with this one. Anyway he's fleeing persecution now, and I'm sure UK.gov needs that 200k badly.

    1. Lee Dowling Silver badge

      Re: Petty, petty, petty

      No.

      This is a falsehood. It's still UK soil. However, it's considered "illegal" for law enforcement officers to enter without authorisation form the ambassador (but, when he says Yes, they can come in and arrest Assange if they want).

      Google the relevant laws for embassies. The ambassador has immunity to prosecution, yes, the embassy is still English soil, though. We just have an arrangement that we won't storm in and arrest everyone there without permission. That's considered standard fare for embassies worldwide and has been for decades.

      Also, see the QI episode where they mention this too. Nor can a ship's captain marry a couple.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Petty, petty, petty

        Article 31 of the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations:

        Article 31

        Inviolability of the consular premises

        1.Consular premises shall be inviolable to the extent provided in this article.

        2.The authorities of the receiving State shall not enter that part of the consular premises which is used exclusively for the purpose of the work of the consular post except with the consent of the head of the consular post or of his designee or of the head of the diplomatic mission of the sending State. The consent of the head of the consular post may, however, be assumed in case of fire or other disaster requiring prompt protective action.

        3.Subject to the provisions of paragraph 2 of this article, the receiving State is under a special duty to take all appropriate steps to protect the consular premises against any intrusion or damage and to prevent any disturbance of the peace of the consular post or impairment of its dignity.

        4.The consular premises, their furnishings, the property of the consular post and its means of transport shall be immune from any form of requisition for purposes of national defence or public utility. If expropriation is necessary for such purposes, all possible steps shall be taken to avoid impeding the performance of consular functions, and prompt, adequate and effective compensation shall be paid to the sending State.

        Full: http://untreaty.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/conventions/9_2_1963.pdf

        Homework version: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Convention_on_Consular_Relations

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Petty, petty, petty

          A downvote for posting a relevant link ? Seriously ?

          1. Dotter

            Re: Petty, petty, petty

            A downvote for moaning about a downvote!

  3. jai

    breach of bail conditions?

    so if he's violated his bail conditions, that means the £200k isn't returned? And presumably he gets locked up until he's extradited then?

    So all these people are gonna loose the money they gave him?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/9343739/Julian-Assange-celebrities-could-lose-thousands-from-WikiLeaks-founders-bail-breach.html

    Serves them right, really. If the charges were just relating to the wikileaks stuff, then fair enough. But helping someone try and avoid these allegation of rape and molestation makes you almost complicit in the acts he's accused of. And judging from his concerted efforts to avoid the allegations, seems likely he believes himself guilty of them.

    1. Zombie Womble

      Re: breach of bail conditions?

      "But helping someone try and avoid these allegation of rape and molestation makes you almost complicit in the acts he's accused of. And judging from his concerted efforts to avoid the allegations, seems likely he believes himself guilty of them."

      That's right, anyone who fights allegations must be guilty so why not just jail/extradite them without legal process. Just look at Salman Rushdie, he's no better, he and everyone who helped him avoid the allegations of blasphemy should be shipped off to Iran to face summary judgement.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @Zombie Wombie

        "That's right, anyone who fights allegations must be guilty so why not just jail/extradite them without legal process. Just look at Salman Rushdie, he's no better, he and everyone who helped him avoid the allegations of blasphemy should be shipped off to Iran to face summary judgement."

        But he's not fighting allegations, is he? He's fighting extradition to *face* allegations. A slight but crucial difference.

      2. jai

        @Zombie Womble Re: breach of bail conditions?

        I think the penalty of rape charges in Sweeden is not quite the same as the penalty of blasphemy in Iran. It's a bit much to say the two are the same isn't it?

        Yes, innocent until proven guilty, I totally agree. But the whole point is that you have to fight allegations, not run away from them. And when his first attempt to run away failed, avoiding extradition from the UK, he's now run away from that too by seeking asylum. These are not the actions of a man who believes himself to be innocent. His own actions are proving him guilty.

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: @Zombie Womble breach of bail conditions?

          "...Yes, innocent until proven guilty..."

          Er, no - it's innocent UNLESS proven guilty.

          As for "His own actions are proving him guilty."

          Er, no again - they most definitely aren't.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: breach of bail conditions?

        Rushdie = straw man. Sweden won't jail him without trial, and extradition IS a legal process

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: breach of bail conditions?

          But "rendition", which has happened from Sweden previously, is definitely NOT a legal process!

          1. Chad H.

            Re: breach of bail conditions?

            Its not as if rendition hasnt happened with UK help before... Theres a whole airbase in Diego Garcia....

          2. laird cummings

            @AC; Wednesday 20th June 2012 15:49 GMT

            Do you *honestly* think Sweden is going to allow a rendition of such a high-profile individual? Do you honestly think the US is going to expose rendition pratices to the kinds of scruitiny that making Assange 'vanish' would cause?

            If so, you're living in a paranoid cloud cuckoo land.

            Nope. Assange is just a moral coward.

            1. Jon B

              Re: @AC; Wednesday 20th June 2012 15:49 GMT

              With the UK extradition law so biased towards the US, surely he'd have *less* chance of being extradited there from Sweden?

    2. Turtle

      200k loss: how painful to his guarantors ?

      I was under the impression - which of course could be mistaken - that the people who posted his bail would be able to absorb the financial loss with no pain at all.

    3. Lee Dowling Silver badge

      Re: breach of bail conditions?

      Can't really feel sorry for them, to be honest.

      I'd have to think twice if I was asked to post bail for my best friend or a close relative, let alone a stranger whose cause I may agree with (I don't, by the way, and think he's pretty much getting what he deserved with all this hassle, especially that the leaks in question were so petty and minor that it wasn't worth the effort, and the sensationalism when he could have just agreed to give evidence to the Swedish court by, e.g. video (which he could have then published online, court permitting)). I certainly wouldn't be putting up huge sums in front of a court as a guarantee that I believe they won't do a runner - it's not the huge sums that would put me off doing that (I'd be getting those back from the culprit as soon as they got out of jail), but the guarantee to the court!

      Posting bail for someone is a HUGE thing to do. You have to be pretty certain that they didn't do it (i.e. they were with you at the time), and would never run away, to even consider it. And if I did post bail, I'd keep an eye on the guy myself - sod the police, he wouldn't have made it to the Ecuadorian embassy if I'd been the one posting bail for him - I'd have handed him in myself because that's an absolute breach of trust over the whole "bailing him out" process I would have undertaken. And if he did get that far, he'd have to deal with me when he got out of there too.

      Posting bail is not something you should do lightly or for a celebrity (that's all he is) with a cause you support. It's a serious undertaking that you are vouching for that person's trustworthiness in front of a court.

      And, to turn around and breach bail on your friends who did that for you is probably more disgusting than anything Wikileaks published from the Manning leaks. The only thing I can think is that he's trying to make EVERYONE hate him as publicly as possible so that it's impossible to get a fair jury who don't know who he is or how much of a moron he's been.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: breach of bail conditions?

      "so if he's violated his bail conditions, that means the £200k isn't returned? And presumably he gets locked up until he's extradited then?"

      You are correct yes, basically Assange in one foul swoop has just ensured his supporters will not get their money back. I can't imagine they would be helping him any more after losing all that money.

      And if he walks outside the embassy he faces re-arrest and imprisonment until extradition.

    5. Velv

      Re: breach of bail conditions?

      Bail is granted so that you return to court as and when requested by the court, but you otherwise have some freedom and are not detained on remand.

      The conditions are there in an attempt to detect someone fleeing, or where such conditions are in place, prevent interfering with witnesses and victims, visiting certain locations, etc.

      Breaching the bail conditions means he can be detained on remand until the courts request him

      Assuming he attends court when requested, it is up to the court if the bail can be returned.

      1. Mike Brown

        Re: breach of bail conditions?

        if your then found guilty of the alleged crime, do you getthe bail money back? or is that dependent on innocence?

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: breach of bail conditions?

      I've just been out, and it is indeed beach ball conditions.

    7. Robert Carnegie Silver badge

      In the television show "Blake's 7"

      Roj Blake is a dissident against an increasingly oppressive government quite a long time in the future. But the government doesn't want to advertise that, so instead they arrest and convict him of child abuse, by tampering with the justice computer. Back in this reality, we know that voting machines already are routinely and easily fiddled with, what else?

      By the way, they said Osama bin Laden had a disgusting collection of pornography. I'm not his greatest fan and I could suspect him of serious misogyny but I'm still sceptical of -that-.

      1. Chad H.

        Re: In the television show "Blake's 7"

        Trying to fight extradition doesnt prove you're guilty.

        Trying to fight extradition by concocting a conspiracy story about the US using Sweden as a front that doesnt stand up to even the smallest bit of scutiny when you look into Swedish/EU law, or UK/USA extradition practice however does convince me he is.

      2. Ken Hagan Gold badge

        Re: Osama's porn stash

        Indeed. It is *much* more likely that he was unable to update his AV software for a decade and the botnets found him before the US did.

      3. Bleu
        Flame

        Re: In the television show "Blake's 7"

        I'm not, may well be disinformation, but far from a surprise if it's true.

        Could go into real anecdotes, but will just suggest you remove the blinders.

  4. Jason Hindle

    So what happens if Assange is given asylum?

    Does the UK simply let him go to Ecuador? Or do the police wait outside the embassy until he appears? I'm sure there must be conventions but I suspect these would be thrown out if the US was desperate enough to see him extradited to Sweden.

    1. JimmyPage
      Stop

      I wonder if this gets downvoted ...

      Has the US actually shown any signs of wanting to extradite Assange. You know, like filing papers, or preparing a case.

      I think Assanges nightmare, is being extradited to Sweden and ignored by the US ... for the second time in a day I have cause to think of Oscar Wilde's observation about the only thing worse than being talked about.

      1. Gamberoni
        FAIL

        Re: I wonder if this gets downvoted ...

        Wrong, wrong, wrong. A simple search on google - heard of that? - would reveal that the US have had a grand jury empanelled for over two years specifically for this purpose.

        So, to keep it simple for you. Are you going to downvoted. Yes!

      2. Local Group
        Trollface

        Re: I wonder if this gets downvoted ...

        @ JimmyPage

        "The only thing worse than being talked about..."

        Given the fact that he has jumped bail, don't you find this Oscar Wilde quote much more to the point?

        "It is always nice to be expected and not to arrive."

    2. That Steve Guy
      Coat

      Re: So what happens if Assange is given asylum?

      One of 4 things will happen if he gets granted Asylum.

      1. Ecuador gets an agreement from the UK to allow him to leave on a flight for Ecuador.

      2. Ecuador grants Assange diplomatic status so he is immune to arrest on his trip to the airport.

      3. They hide him in a very large diplomatic bag.

      4. He lives in the Embassy unable to step outside without arrest for years until one of the above conditions are met or the abassador decides he wants to kick him out. (see the case of the man who lived in a US Embassy for 15 years being unable to leave the country)

      I'll get my coat, its the one with "Diplomatic Immunity" on the front and "its just been revoked" on the back.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: So what happens if Assange is given asylum?

        The CIA will have been working with their people in the Ecuadorean embassy to ensure 3. happens. Their preference is he's put into several normal sized diplomatic bags, not one big one. No one will hear about him again, he will have simply disappeared.

      2. FredrikE

        Re: So what happens if Assange is given asylum?

        Equador cannot give Assange diplomatic immunity.

        He would have to be suggested as a diplomat by Equador and accredited by the UK for him to gain diplomatic immunity in the UK.

        I don't like his chances for accreditation.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: So what happens if Assange is given asylum?

          No, if this were true it would make the whole diplomatic situation a lot easier. Ecuador can give him diplomatic status which in international convention means that he and his property should be governed by Ecuadorian law.

          This is a convention which many states decide not to worry about and can only be punishable by the severance of diplomatic ties by you and your mates. Although if they have bigger mates you might be in trouble because they can do the same to you.

          You don't have to register with a country to have diplomatic status in it just documents saying my dad and your dad have made an agreement and I'm telling them if you start on me.

          Saying that Blighty can argue that he wasn't subject to Ecuadorian law at the time so bugger off.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: So what happens if Assange is given asylum?

            "No, if this were true it would make the whole diplomatic situation a lot easier. Ecuador can give him diplomatic status which in international convention means that he and his property should be governed by Ecuadorian law.

            You don't have to register with a country to have diplomatic status in it just documents saying my dad and your dad have made an agreement and I'm telling them if you start on me."

            Sorry, that is not correct.

            The sponsor country must apply to the receiving state to have the person granted diplomatic status. If approved, the person is added to the diplomatic list and the Vienna convention gives that person certain rights and privileges. For the most part, this is a formality, but it is still a trip wire. The UK would not grant Assange diplomatic status and it is not his, nor Ecuador's right to claim or grant it.

            A diplomat and his property are always governed by the law of the host country and agree to be bound by it. By the Vienna Convention, the host country agrees not to prosecute any claim or charge on the diplomat or his property, but if the diplomat steps out of line the host country can revoke his diplomatic status, declare him or her persona non grata and kick them out.

            Certain East European countries are notorious for not paying parking fines, but there was a case about 20 years ago where such a stink was caused by the £'000's owed that the sponsor country withdrew the person concerned before a real diplomatic incident erupted by forcing a PNG case.

            1. Mark 65

              Re: So what happens if Assange is given asylum?

              "Certain East European countries are notorious for not paying parking fines, but there was a case about 20 years ago where such a stink was caused by the £'000's owed that the sponsor country withdrew the person concerned before a real diplomatic incident erupted by forcing a PNG case."

              Have a look at the congestion charge hit-list...

              http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/feb/04/london-embassies-unpaid-congestion-charges

              US owes nearly £5m. Apparently they say it's a "tax" and they don't have to pay those.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: So what happens if Assange is given asylum?

                "Have a look at the congestion charge hit-list...

                http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/feb/04/london-embassies-unpaid-congestion-charges

                US owes nearly £5m. Apparently they say it's a "tax" and they don't have to pay those."

                You got me there. I left in the mid 90's. Now live just about as far away from London as it's possible to get in the UK. There are more sheep than people per square mile here. And there aren't many sheep here either.

                Still have my old passport with all it's stamps. It made quite a conversation piece for a while, but now it's just a relic of a different life. And much happier for it too.

      3. Jon Grattage
        Meh

        Re: So what happens if Assange is given asylum?

        2 requires the UK government to recognise him as a diplomat.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: So what happens if Assange is given asylum?

        "One of 4 things will happen if he gets granted Asylum.

        1. Ecuador gets an agreement from the UK to allow him to leave on a flight for Ecuador.

        2. Ecuador grants Assange diplomatic status so he is immune to arrest on his trip to the airport.

        3. They hide him in a very large diplomatic bag.

        4. He lives in the Embassy unable to step outside without arrest for years until one of the above conditions are met or the abassador decides he wants to kick him out. (see the case of the man who lived in a US Embassy for 15 years being unable to leave the country)"

        :

        1. Unlikely, since he is in breach of his bail terms and there will soon be (if not already) a warrant issued for his arrest.

        2. Ecuador can not grant him diplomatic immunity. That is granted by the receiving state. A sponsoring state submits an application for a person to be accredited as a diplomat, and if accepted the person is granted immunity. the UK will not accept Assange as a diplomat of any country so he will never hold diplomatic immunity in the UK.

        3. Only diplomatic papers are to be carried in diplomatic bags on a public flight. Any other item could be viewed as a breach of the Warsaw Convention and sanctions can be taken. I can't see Ecuador asking permission for a military flight, so the Warsaw convention applies. Would Ecuador risk it: I don't know, ask them.

        4. If he doesn't want to be arrested and remanded in custody until his extradition to Sweden, this is his only possibility.

        Bear in mind that the inviolability of the embassy only applies to those parts which are solely used for diplomatic purposes. If he appears at a news conference, even inside the embassy grounds, he risks being outside the "firewall" of the diplomatic premises and could be arrested. A sad way to live one's life on a bunk bed in locked dusty corridor - surely he doesn't think the Ecuadorans are going to let him have free access to their sensitive areas?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: So what happens if Assange is given asylum?

          Even if he gives a press release, this is NOT going to happen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgGyyRTP4fU

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      With respect to the "it's a stitch-up" school of thought

      The generally reliable and interesting legal blogger Jack of Kent posted:

      http://jackofkent.com/2012/06/assange-would-the-rape-allegation-also-be-rape-under-english-law/

      which seems quite plain that the allegation made would be handled as rape in the UK too, as such is an extradictable offense, and that the court having no reason to believe Swedish justice deranged (or no more so than UK...) has simply no basis for not granting the extradition request.

      1. No, I will not fix your computer
        Thumb Down

        Re: With respect to the "it's a stitch-up" school of thought

        >>which seems quite plain that the allegation made would be handled as rape in the UK too

        True, however this would only be the case had she not already consented to sex already that evening, in the UK it would be a valid defense to say "we went to bed, she consented to sex, as it was a matter of minutes and we were still in bed together, I presumed consent was still in place".

        The "equivalent" crime would have to be based on conditional consent (i.e. "I only consent if you wear a condom"), which isn't structured as rape in UK law.

        Given the women are not pressing charges and there's no independent evidence (too late for tests, and SMS logs shows boasting of sex without any mention of rape) any prosecution is very unlikely, the UK CPS probably would not consder the case in the public interest to pursue, I don't think that English law would take it very far.

        Don't get me wrong, it's quite possible Assange is a rapist, I can't say if he's definitely guilty, or definitely innocent, and under law that means you should be free, this is true for all crimes, it doesn't matter if you bugger sheep or are a serial killer, no evidence, not guilty. If you think you might be a victim of a crime then report as early as you can and consider how you can best preserve evidence.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          >> in the UK it would be a valid defense to say "...I presumed consent was still in place".

          Not according to the Magstrates' Court ruling quoted by JoK:

          However, what is alleged here is that Mr Assange “deliberately consummated sexual intercourse with her by improperly exploiting that she, due to sleep, was in a helpless state”. In this country that would amount to rape.

          And (to the very little extent I understand all things legal) the test for extradition being applied isn't whether it is probable that a successful prosecution could be made in this country, but whether the alleged offenses - IF PROVEN - are sufficiently serious. From the same ruling:

          As I am satisfied that the specified offences are extradition offences I must go on to consider whether any of the bars to extradition specified in section 11 are applicable. No bars are raised and none is found.

          Of course this trusts that the legal system being extradicted to is not inherently unfair (we don't generally sign treaties with those that are, and generally expect good reciprocity from those we do sign with - of course here relations with the USA remain an embarrassment) and where potential punishments are in breech of fundamental principles (principally capital offenses since the UK has no death penalty) extradition may blocked. But here the court found that no such issues exist, and the High Court agreed.

          Now if the USA is determined to do some bait and switch and if one fears they're completely rogue then living under an assumed identity will be the only good defense, since some malign concept such as "extraordinary rendition" can always be invoked and Mr Assange will simply vanish. But if the USA is ready to resort to such dire steps I would have expected them to already have done so.

          1. No, I will not fix your computer
            Thumb Down

            Re: >> in the UK it would be a valid defense to say "...I presumed consent was still in place".

            >>Not according to the Magstrates' Court ruling quoted by JoK:

            >>However, what is alleged here is that Mr Assange “deliberately consummated sexual intercourse with her by improperly exploiting that she, due to sleep, was in a helpless state”. In this country that would amount to rape.

            And I would completely agree with you (and JoK) if you added "without prior consent", however, this quote was specifically with regards to Assange's case, but firstly - the facts; the quote is not the Magistrates Courts ruling, it's a quote from the prosecution

            If you are genuinely interested, perhaps you should read the whole transcript and make your own mind up; http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/Misc/2011/5.pdf

            I do however agree with (the spirit) of the extradition, someone accused of a crime should answer the accusation, what really disturbs me is that if it was anyone else, this would not be happening, there are so many legal presidents being made and breaks of normal practice, many of which are not in the alleged victims interests (like speedy interviews).

            If Assange ends up in Sweden and the US don't try to extradite him, I'll hold my hands up and openly admit I was wrong, if he ends up in Sweden and the US attempt to extradite him will you be happy to do the same?

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: >> in the UK it would be a valid defense to say "...I presumed consent was still in place".

              Thanks for the transcript link - lazily I hadn't saught it out. I entirely agree that the quoted text is from the warrant, however the observation that "In this country that would amount to rape" comes from the chief magistrate and serves to confirm that the alleged offence would be open to prosecution here too.

              It's also nice to see there an apparently authoritative statement on the suggestion that he can be lightly extradicted from Sweden - the chief magistrate writing:

              If Mr Assange is surrendered to Sweden and a request is made to Sweden for his extradition to the United States of America, then article 28 of the framework decision applies. In such an event the consent of the Secretary of State in this country will be required, in accordance with section 58 of the Extradition Act 2003, before Sweden can order Mr Assange’s extradition to a third State. The Secretary of State is required to give notice to Mr Assange unless it is impracticable to do so. Mr Assange would have the protection of the courts in Sweden and, as the Secretary of State’s decision can be reviewed, he would have the protection of the English courts also.

              So at the least such extradition promises to be time consuming and potentially embarrassing for the UK govt.

              And if the USA does attempt extradition from Sweden then I'll certainly admit I was wrong, though not "happily" - the unhappiness won't stem from chagrin but from discovering that yet again my cynicism dial needs more numbers added past 11 (but that's already been done thoroughly by the contrast between the foreign policy and war conduct of the present US administration to the "Hope" ambience of its inauguration)

              1. No, I will not fix your computer
                Thumb Down

                Re: >> in the UK it would be a valid defense to say "...I presumed consent was still in place".

                >>Thanks for the transcript link - lazily I hadn't saught it out.

                You're welcome, my pleasure, it does make interesting reading.

                >>I entirely agree that the quoted text is from the warrant, however the observation that "In this country that would amount to rape" comes from the chief magistrate and serves to confirm that the alleged offence would be open to prosecution here too.

                I agree that extradition to Sweden is legal (and, as I've always maintained accusations of crimes should always be answered), but in the UK, he's open to charge, but unlikely to be prosecuted, the witness in her statement doesn't even say was asleep, merely "half asleep", that itself is "reasonable doubt", and that's not considering the fact that she had given previous consent, the UK law is intended to protect women who are incapacitated, either through drink, drugs or merely sleep, but the law is very clear that this protection is from someone who she has no intention to sleep with, for example, a woman goes to a party, drinks too much and is incapacitated, she then consents to sex with a guy who she mistakenly believes (because of her state) is someone else, she has been raped, the guy (regardless of his understanding) is a rapist.

                >>So at the least such extradition promises to be time consuming and potentially embarrassing for the UK govt.

                It doesn't have to be time consuming "The Secretary of State is required to give notice to Mr Assange unless it is impracticable to do so" and I'm not sure why you'd think it could be embarassing, remember the UK government doesn't have to give explicit consent for US extradition (just an explicit challenge), and I suspect that telling the US that they can't do something would question our "special relationship" and be potentially more embarassing than just rolling over.

                >>Mr Assange would have the protection of the courts in Sweden and, as the Secretary of State’s decision can be reviewed, he would have the protection of the English courts also.

                The courts in Sweden have been rather enthusiasic in not protecting Assange and he would only get protection from the UK courts if the choose to do so, why woudl the UK go out of their way for a supposed criminal and bail jumper?

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: With respect to the "it's a stitch-up" school of thought

          "Don't get me wrong, it's quite possible Assange is a rapist..."

          Or whatever technicality it is under Swedish law.

          He certainly needs to be questioned about it. I don't think anyone seriously believes that his fame in other areas gives him the right to avoid investigation.

          Yet he has poured an enormous amount of money (his, the taxpayer's, and anyone he can tap for a fiver) into avoiding even answering questions on the subject. I can't afford to buy off the law like that, and I doubt anyone who reads this can, either. What is appalling me about this case is the enormous advantage the wealthy and influential have over the rest of us as regards bypassing justice.

          1. No, I will not fix your computer

            Re: With respect to the "it's a stitch-up" school of thought

            >>Yet he has poured an enormous amount of money (his, the taxpayer's, and anyone he can tap for a fiver) into avoiding even answering questions on the subject.

            Not entirely accurate, he has volunteered to be questioned (in the UK) anytime, at the prosecutions convienience, however his offer was turned down, despite there being a complementary UK legal process available for him being interviewed. The prosecution didn't do the alleged victims any favours in this as they must know that it can only drag it out further, however it may be due to the fact that after interviewing, should they wish to arrest and charge they would need to issue a new EAW.

            >>What is appalling me about this case is the enormous advantage the wealthy and influential have over the rest of us as regards bypassing justice.

            It's the way of the world (to some extent), pay for a better lawyer and you could get a better outcome, bail is great if you have the money, but this is true for anything, note, Assange is only delaying things.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: So what happens if Assange is given asylum?

      Does the UK simply let him go to Ecuador? Yes there is a tunnel in the basement of the embassy leading directly to Ecuador.

      1. Ken Hagan Gold badge
        Facepalm

        Re: So what happens if Assange is given asylum?

        "Does the UK simply let him go to Ecuador? Yes there is a tunnel in the basement of the embassy leading directly to Ecuador."

        Downvoted presumably by a mining engineer who needs to get out more.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: So what happens if Assange is given asylum?

          >Downvoted presumably by a mining engineer who needs to get out more

          Ken, you have to understand that some people can barely read the words they see let alone comprehend their gist when grouped together so it's hardly surprising that someone has taken the comment seriously. Yes, you're probably right, it does sound like a mining engineer.

    5. Tom 7 Silver badge

      Re: So what happens if Assange is given asylum?

      given M.Thatcher was quite happy to let the whole Libyan embassy walk free after someone there shot a policewomen I say that the protection offered by diplomatic immunity is pretty sacrosanct - almost as sacrosanct as offshore funds.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: So what happens if Assange is given asylum? @Tom 7

        >given M.Thatcher was quite happy to let the whole Libyan embassy walk free

        Ah, but the other M.Thatcher, her son, probably allegedly and whetever else ...edly had a big arms deal with Libya that she didn't want to put in jeopardy.

        1. Tom 7 Silver badge

          Re: So what happens if Assange is given asylum? @Tom 7

          OK she wasn’t happy. But that was meant to show just how sacrosanct the rules are. If Assange gets asylum he's regarded as being on their soil already and magically stays on it while under the care of the embassy - and that means all the way to Ecuador by bike and rowing boat if they so decree.

          1. Jon Grattage
            Meh

            Re: So what happens if Assange is given asylum? @Tom 7

            only while in their offices, not outside, in their cars, or on their bikes etc

          2. JohnG Silver badge

            Re: So what happens if Assange is given asylum? @Tom 7

            The people at the Libyan embassy all had been sent by Libya as diplomatic staff and their diplomatic status had been accepted by the UK. The Libyan government did not agree to waive or withdraw their diplomatic status after the killing of Yvonne Fletcher, so the UK had to allow them to leave. None of this applies for Assange - he is not a diplomat for any country and the UK isn't likely to accept him as such.

          3. Graham Bartlett

            Re: So what happens if Assange is given asylum? @Tom 7

            Except that the Libyans were all officially accreditted diplomats. Assange is not.

            1. Scorchio!!

              Re: So what happens if Assange is given asylum? @Tom 7

              "Except that the Libyans were all officially accreditted diplomats. Assange is not."

              Indeed, and I think that the below covers the red herrings introduced by the pro Assange posters here:

              "He will discover later today if Ecuador plans to grant him asylum.

              But it is widely accepted he will still face arrest the minute he walks out of the Knightsbridge building, where police are waiting, as he has breached his bail conditions.

              He is meant to remain at a bail address in Tunbridge Wells between 10pm and 8am every night while his extradition appeals continue.

              Mr Assange, a 40 year-old Australian, cannot be given diplomatic immunity by Ecuador as conferred on other embassy staff, because the Foreign Office would not approve the application.

              And even if he were made an Ecuadorian citizen or granted asylum, he would still be liable to be arrested on departure from the embassy.

              Speaking on the steps this morning, a policeman told reporters: “I am not aware of any agreements which would allow him safe passage out of the UK.”

              Scotland Yard confirmed: “A successful asylum bid does not change the fact that he has breached his bail conditions.”

              http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/9346865/Julian-Assange-will-be-arrested-regardless-of-Ecuador-asylum-decision.html

              There is a silly idea about him becoming a UN representative, but there is an accreditation process, so I think not.

              Bubbery here we come. (No pun intended.)

              1. Local Group
                Thumb Down

                But it is widely accepted he will still face arrest the minute he walks out

                And you probably think that he will walk out of the embassy without a safe passage or whatever you want to call it from the UK PM. If Ecuador grants Assange sanctuary, it will have to get the UK's permission for Assange to leave the country. Surely you remember the recent case of the the blind Chinese activist, who was permitted to leave China after being granted sanctuary in the American Embassy in Beijing.

                If the UK doesn't grant Assange permission to travel to Ecuador, remember the case of Cardinal Mindszenty, who lived in the U.S. Embassy in Budapest for 15 years.

                If he's not permitted to get on an airplane, Assange will become a living martyr in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London and the Assangards will gather there every day, until the UK has to take Putin-like measures to suppress the protests (easier done than said.)

                Finally, now two Latin American countries will be pissed off at England and they will lobby their sister states to press their advantage over the EU as it struggles to pull itself out the economic mess it's in.

                A mess created by the US, the empire controlling the world's economy and the world's theater's of war.

                The best analogy of the relationship between America and England and the other members of the European Union would be that of Doctor Frankenstein and Igor. 27 Igors, to be exact.

      2. JimmyPage
        Stop

        Unfair !

        Mrs Thatcher was not "happy" to let the Libyans go. She was incandescant with rage. The government of the day took very detailed and exact legal guidance on the matter, and were advised that since the occupants of the embassy had been accepted as diplomats by the UK, then it would require the Libyan government to remove that status, if anything could be done. Any attempt to arrest or bring them to trial would have been frustrated by the courts, as the UK is a signatory of the Vienna convention.

        Libya chose not to revoke the diplomatic status, so the UK was left with no alternative to expel them.

        I was in the presence of a senior met officer at the time of the shooting. His radio went off, and he excused himself (he was part of the armed response team). Chatting to him sometime after, he said that the Met would never forget, and if the situation ever changed they would seek to get those responsible before a UK court. The fact that (with him since retired) some met officers went out to Libya last year, with the sole purpose of advancing the investigation - 25 years on.

    6. PyLETS
      Meh

      Re: So what happens if Assange is given asylum?

      I think they let him go to Ecuador to rot there. Once there he'd be refused entry to any other country other where by nationality he has a right (Australia?) to return. If the Ecuadoreans are daft enough to give him asylum I'd be surprised if UK authorities are not happy to be shot of him, once they have collected their £200,000, not that that paltry amount would cover the state prosecutors costs concerning the extradition trial so far. Besides which, he'd probably have diplomatic immunity from arrest in transit from here to there as Ecuador's diplomatic baggage.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    seems you missed a letter on the subheading

    I think you missed the p from "chums"(sic)

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Don't understand...

    ... if not guilty why go to such great lengths to avoid going to Sweden?

    I can understand a small amount of dramatic effort to promote his conspiracy agenda and enhance his profile but come on it's getting silly now, asylum in Ecuador and costing your chums £200k is ridiculous for someone who is supposedly not guilty. Wouldn't you eventually want to go and clear your name? It's Sweden not some banana republic!

    1. DrXym Silver badge

      Re: Don't understand...

      The fear is that if he sets foot in Sweden that it is far easier to extradite him the US where potentially he could be looking a death sentence. I doubt he would be facing a death sentence but he could still be looking at life in jail. I think anyone faced with that possibility would try every trick in the book to avoid ending up in Sweden regardless of their innocence or not.

      1. FredrikE

        Re: Don't understand...

        That is not true.

        Neither the fact nor the fear.

        Given that he apparently stated in his assylum request that he fears extradition from Sweden or the UK or Australia (equally) he obviously doesn't feel more threatened by Sweden than by the UK.

        Neither of these countries would ever extradite if there was a remote possibility of capital punishment. And none of them has been asked to either so it's all academic.

        It's all just hyperbole to gain support while not wanting to face responsibility for his alledged actions while in Sweden.

        1. DrXym Silver badge

          Re: Don't understand...

          "Neither of these countries would ever extradite if there was a remote possibility of capital punishment. And none of them has been asked to either so it's all academic."

          As I said I don't think he would be up for the death sentence, but it wouldn't stop the US trying with a non-capital charge which instead would see him locked away forever. Either way, if it was me facing the risk I'd do everything in my power to avoid it too.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Don't understand...

        It's utter bollocks to suggest that his problem is extradition to the US, he says this because it fits his conspiracy agenda and makes him look like the hero against oppressive secrecy, i.e. it's bollocks for the media to propagate on his behalf. He could still be extradited to the US from good ol' blighty if a good enough request was made, however no such request has been made and a case against him would be hard work anyway.

        He should stop wasting our time, go and clear his name and cling on to a shred of credibility.

        1. Field Marshal Von Krakenfart

          Re: Don't understand...

          It's utter bollocks to suggest that his problem is extradition to the US, he says this because it fits his conspiracy agenda and makes him look like the hero against oppressive secrecy,

          Sorry iamafish, Failure of critical thinking on your part,

          Yes, what the media is saying, probably with a bit of help from Assange's PR people, may make it sound like a conspiracy theory to get Assange extradited to 'merkin-land.

          Yes, and it may make Assange look like some sort of hero fighting against gruberment secrecy.

          However that does not have those things wrong.

      3. JohnG Silver badge

        Re: Don't understand... @DrXym

        "The fear is that if he sets foot in Sweden that it is far easier to extradite him the US where potentially he could be looking a death sentence."

        For starters, as signatories to the ECHR and as EU members bound by the CFR, both Sweden and the UK are strictly forbidden to extradite anyone to a country where they may be subject to the death penalty.

        Secondly, the UK's extradition agreement with the USA is virtually identical to Sweden's extradition agreement with the USA. However, whilst Sweden is an unaligned neutral country, the UK is a NATO member and a close ally of the USA - the UK is far more likely to find a national security reason to act against Assange.

        Thirdly, Sweden would still have to refer back to the UK if they were to consider extraditing Assange to the USA.

        Given Ecuador's record on the treatment of journalists, Assange must be daft if he thinks he will be safer there than in Sweden.

    2. Chad H.

      Re: Don't understand...

      Except Dr if that were the case, as he'd be protected by 3 governments objections to extraditions to juristictions with the death penalty in sweden - The UK, Sweden, and Australia; whereas in the UK, its merely 2.

      Its just smoke and mirrors from Assange, and he should be ashamed of himself.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Don't understand...

      "rendition"

      a) learn what it means

      b) learn to spell it

      c) look it up, in connection with Säpo (here is a link to start you off)

      http://www.thelocal.se/39190/20120218/

      1. Chad H.

        Re: Don't understand...

        Except of course that rendition is extremely unlikely.

        He is a high profile person

        He has a weekly TV show on Russia Today

        If he fell into a black hole, it would be noticed by everyone. He's a poor target for such a thing.

  7. teapot9999

    Get shot of him

    Just stick him on the next plane to Stockholm - problem solved.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    why go to such great lengths to avoid going to Sweden?

    The pickled fish I'd bet.

    /joke

    Getting my coat...

    1. Someral
      Coat

      Re: why go to such great lengths to avoid going to Sweden?

      He won't get a fair Herring in Sweden?

      1. Petrea Mitchell
        Coat

        Re: why go to such great lengths to avoid going to Sweden?

        In the grand Internet tradition, I'd expect him to undergo an intense lute-Fisking.

      2. Crisp
        Coat

        Re: why go to such great lengths to avoid going to Sweden?

        Fish puns? Oh my cod!

        You're giving me a haddock!

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Let him go and good riddance!

    And that £200k can go some way to reimbursing us on the money pissed away whilst he whined in the courts this past year.

  10. Anonymous Coward 101
    Windows

    Julian Assange is a fanny

    That is all.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Julian Assange is a fanny

      and what factual insights into the world's corrupt powers have you published today my good sir?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @AC

        For that matter, what factual insights into the world's corrupt powers has Julian Asshinge published today?

      2. Turtle

        Profiteer Or Publisher: Re: Julian Assange is a fanny

        "and what factual insights into the world's corrupt powers have you published today my good sir?"

        You might not know this, but it was Bradley Manning who got that material and is now rotting in a military brig for it, and is likely to remain there for the rest of his life (and deservedly so, as far as I am concerned). What Assange did, was merely PROFIT from what Manning did by SELLING the rights to publish this material. To think that Assange and WikiLeaks are anything other than profiteers and parasites would be profoundly mistaken. Assange gets the money and Manning gets the prison time. Oh, but let me not forget that WikiLeaks did give Manning $15,000. That won't pay for the coffee that his defense attorney will consume in the course of mounting Manning's defense.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Profiteer Or Publisher: Julian Assange is a fanny

          @Turtle:

          People seem to forget that Wikileaks published many more and wonderful things before the US cables.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Profiteer Or Publisher: Julian Assange is a fanny

          @Turtle: As a military man, Manning should have realised that praise flows up and shit flows down.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Ecuador?

    That's far too close to the US.

    I hope for his sake the flight path doesn't cross or come near to the US.

  12. Alan Brown Silver badge

    Bail Breaches in the UK

    Are often ignored by the police (personal experience) - and courts usually just slap the offender on the wrist and tell him not to do it again (again, personal experience, and is why the police don't give it high priority)

    He'd have to be considered a flight risk (unlikely with no passport and a watch entry on ports/airports), or dangerous to get more than a stiff telling off - and it's likely his financiers will get their money back in any case.

    The judge _might_ decide to ankle tag him, but I'm pretty sure the courts are fully aware just how much of a dog-and-pony show this whole thing is and don't want to add fuel to the fire,

    OTOH the courts might decide they've had enough and deport him on the next available westbound flight to Australia.

    1. Anonymous Dutch Coward
      Happy

      Re: Bail Breaches in the UK

      Westbound... nice one ;)

    2. laird cummings
      Big Brother

      Re: Bail Breaches in the UK

      He already *was* ankle-tagged.

      With an arrest warrant out, and the high profile, he won't be getting a slap on the wrist.

      One wonders is that's precisely what he's angling for - a nice lengthy stay at Her Majesty's convenience?

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Someone claimed JA is a w@nker - if he was he would not be in this mess... ;)

    Keep the 200k, send him to Sweden to face the allegations - this is basically an expensive (for his backers) PR stunt / delaying tactic.

    Do Equador not have an extradition treaty with Sweden?

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    FFS.

    The original photo:

    http://www.lastwordonnothing.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/800px-Julian_Assange_20091117_Copenhagen_2.jpg

  15. nexsphil

    200K wasted

    Yes I suspect Assange is crying into his pillow about the 200K as we speak. It's not as if he's in mortal danger or anything. He's probably also giving a lot of thought to his gas bill.

  16. Mage Silver badge

    Equador

    That bastion of free speech, human rights and excellent investigative reporters that are never molested or end up dead.

    Or am I confused?

    He's a liability to Wikileaks.

  17. JaitcH
    FAIL

    Since when has Plod assumed the duties of the courts?

    The British police are something else. Ignoring the fact that almost everything they have/know is for sale, it is only because a series of lazy governments have assigned powers to Plod that they now think they also handle the Crown's and quite likely, the judges functions.

    Assange hasn't gone anywhere. most likely parking is at a premium what with Plod and American security agents keeping the front and the back under surveillance.

    The two Swedish women with loose morals are most likely wishing the whole thing will go away, except that they likely received bulging brown envelopes for their part in the frame up. The whole process, for those that remember, had frame-up written all over it.

    The US is the world's largest rogue nation (think drones and lack of permission) and it wouldn't bother them one bit to break all sorts of protocols to wreak their vengeance upon Assange.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    And how much has this cost the UK so far?

    Dear Sirs,

    Here is the bit which makes me madder than a box of frogs...

    After conducting an extensive survey I concluded that if you add up the income tax contributions of all the commentards on this thread it still doesn't cover the amount the UK gov has spent on police time, court fee's, appeal fees and the such like relating to Mr Assange thus far. I'm already fuming at the amount of my money our government manage to piss up against the wall (bank bailouts, wars, quangos, EU fines) without taking 40% of my hard earned pay and using it to attempt to extradite an Aussie with a beef against the US to Sweeden. With this in mind I vote we recruit a group of willing volunteers and throw him off the quayside at Dover.

    OR we just let Ecuador keep him, they obviously want to play silly buggers as otherwise they would have given him back straight away so they can feed him, water him and supply him with bandwidth. If he tries to leave their embasy we push him back in.

    Actually, I've just realised that I don't care what happens to him as long as people stop spending my f**king money to do it!

    Yours...

    Somebody who pays more tax then Jimmy Carr.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: And how much has this cost the UK so far?

      >Here is the bit which makes me madder than a box of frog

      You'd be even madder if all those public servants who are delaing with this case were just sitting on their backsides and still getting paid for doing nothing.

      What makes me madder than a box of frogs is when so and so is said to have cost the public x millions of pounds when those costs would have been incurred anyway.

      Overtime, I hear someone screech. The police and other public bodies will always find ways to guarentee overtime, in some cases whether they actually do it or not.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Yawn

    Who is this Assange fellow? Was he on th x-factor or something?

  20. Bradley Hardleigh-Hadderchance
    Thumb Up

    Ok Pilgrim

    Stands heavier on one leg than the other

    Pulls up belt.

    Already has big hat on.

    "A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do".

    (Pilgrim, if you like for added effect - I don't think it need it myself, but ymmv....)

  21. Marketing Hack Silver badge
    Devil

    At the risk of descending to the playgeound...

    Julian Assange is a self-centered wuss!!

  22. Local Group
    Childcatcher

    Pish Tush

    "Our great Mikado, virtuous man,

    When he to rule our land began,

    Resolved to try

    A plan whereby

    Young men might best be steadied.

    So he decreed, in words succinct,

    That all who flirted, leered or winked

    (Unless connubially linked),

    Should forthwith be beheaded,

    Beheaded, beheaded,

    Should forthwith be beheaded.

    And I expect you'll all agree

    That he was right to so decree.

    And I am right,

    And you are right,

    And all is right as right can be!"

    "And so we straight let out on bail

    A convict from the county jail,

    Whose head was next

    On some pretext

    Condemned to be mown off...

    "And we are right, I think you'll say,

    To argue in this kind of way;

    And I am right,

    And you are right,

    And all is right — too-loo-ral-lay"

    Everyone is right. You may resume watching television.

    1. Bradley Hardleigh-Hadderchance
      Coat

      Re: Pish Tush

      Shakespeare was the best.

      But even he didn't have allusions to assange!

      (it's alright, I've got it on and am halfway out the door)

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Last I checked....

    Sweden was a pretty thoroughly Neutral Country, as in they aren't part of NATO, and they've been uncooperative before. The UK on the other hand extradites quite a bit, not 100% of the time, but enough where I would be concerned if I was him.

    Personally I think he should be shot, he became a spy on his own accord, and spies don't usually survive getting caught, they usually get killed. Its an occupational hazard.

    Anyway, regardless of any of that, If he was going to be extradited, he stands a much better chance of that happening in the UK than in Sweden. But charges would also have to be filed against him in the US, and that hasn't occurred yet.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Last I checked....

      And just so noone's confused, I didnt say it was MORALLY right to shoot him. Its not morally right to kill anyone that isnt directly trying to harm you or innocents.

      It can be argued he did exactly that by leaking Classified Military information in my case, as Im in the US Army, but noone's been hurt, just embarassed. Which some of the Polichickens need to be to be quite honest with you.

      I disagree with disclosure of Classified Material but some of the effects have been positive ones. Tunisia especially. Noone's directly died that we know of. I wish they would have redacted names, but from what I understand, they're doing that now. Im no apologist for Assange, and definitely not for PFC Manning (though I strongly doubt the Diplomatic Cables came from him, the Armed Forces are almost always not privy to what State's doing). Ive worked in very sensitive compartments, and Ive never seen a diplomatic cable once. And no, not even on Wikileaks. If I view one of those cables, I WILL be caught. and I WILL be facing a court martial. I have no need to know about the US Department of State's activities.

      Anyway, my main point is that its just common practice among Intelligence professionals to kill people who break and disclose information like he did. You screw up and you die. Your own people might pull the trigger on you even.

      Granted, this guy is a self-important, self-aggrandizing amateur of the highest order, but the same rules apply to him as they do to someone like the fictional James Bond or the equally fictional Michael Weston from USA Network's "Burn Notice". If you get caught or burned, you don't live to tell the tale. Even in the Military. I remember my first Military ID had a big blank in the Geneva Conventions Category Section. In other words, if I got caught, I was legally a spy and even in countries obeying the Conventions, I would be shot completely legally. They don't even bother training us for escape and evasion, only survival and resistance because they know we're dead. They tell us straight up we wont survive being captured by any enemy, so we'd may as well fight until they kill us.

      My last ID, a Common Access Card, had an X in the Conventions Category section, which means "eXempted" instead, but it means the same thing.

      For the naive ones among you, in case you haven't noticed since the Cold War, the idea of "morality" doesn't exist in the world of intelligence collection. If you open your neighbor's mail, is it morally right? No, it isnt.

      But thats basically what our job is. I dont believe its morally right, and when I face my maker (please keep the Atheist comments to yourselves please, its my personal belief. I believe in science just as much as my religion), I will freely admit that I sinned, but because of people like me, alot of people who would otherwise be dead are alive, ignorant and happy. Which is payment enough for me.

      You may ask how can I sleep at night? By knowing that Ive saved lives by making sure horrible things that the general public will never know about didn't happen.

      1. Local Group
        Childcatcher

        Re: "if I got caught, I was legally a spy"

        So you must have had assignments in the field.

        What if you were told to liquidate a head of state or a low level agent with damaging information about the Agency? Or if your assignment was to persuade a deep cover agent in a nuclear power station to start a meltdown; if he didn't pull the control rods or whatever, you'd do something grotesque to his wife and kids?

        Office work sounds like it's loaded with morality and almost as exciting.

        " because of people like me, alot of people who would otherwise be dead are alive, ignorant and happy."

        I like your credo. I think a golly or a gosh wouldn't have been amiss.

        Unfortunately, because of a thousand times more people unlike you, a lot of people who would otherwise be alive are now permanently under the weather.

        Mr Maker is familiar with your case. No doubt he's read this comment and may even have had a hand in all those missing apostrophes.

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Desperation no doubt

    Assange must figure those rape charges will hold up in court.

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Swedish misconduct

    Assange has not been charged with anything, particularly not rape: Chief Prosecutor Eva Finné declared, "I don't think there is reason to suspect that he has committed rape." - He is facing allegations of some swedish form of sexual misconduct which no one here is familiar with, from two female aquaintances whom he had rash, presumably unsatisfactory, intimate relations with.

    I note elesewhere that Russel "he f*cked yer grandaughter" Brand one is shmoozing the global podium with his holiness the Dali llama.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Swedish misconduct

      No one said Assange was "charged" yet. The poster said IF he is convicted of the rape charges, additional time shoudl be added for his attitude regarding justice and returning to Sweden to face his accusers. Extradition treaties are intended to prevent people like Assange from "hit and run" crimes. If he's innocent there is no reason to seek asylum. Man up and face your accusers. They have to prove their claims, not just make allegations.

      1. Local Group
        FAIL

        Re: 'If he's innocent there is no reason to seek asylum.'

        Do you mean to say no innocent man was ever convicted of false charges? Or that false charges were never brought against someone a State wanted to punish?

        Some of us think of Assange as a 'whistle blower' and not the Australian doppelganger of Ethel and Julius Rosenberg.

        If my country acts hypocritically or immorally, I want to know it and even see proof of it. I don't want to be the German citizen, who after world war 2, said, "I had no idea there were extermination camps."

  26. Boris S.

    Just delaying the inevitable

    Assange is trying to delay the inevitable but he will be returned to Sweden to face his accusers. If convicted they should add a few years on for his gamesmanship to avoid prosecution. Fair is fair.

  27. Don Jefe
    Meh

    Hahahaha. I hope some plod shoots him in the face the minute he poles his head out. This whole sorry mess has gone too far & needs to stop. He's a dick who screws his friends, forgets about his suppliers (Manning) and apparently rapes young girls. The CIA doesn't have to do anything, Assange gets it done without help.

    1. Local Group
      FAIL

      "apparently rapes young girls"

      If you consider those two tired old hookers to be young girls, your sexual cred is no better than your political cred.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "apparently rapes young girls"

        As long as he's held accountable then their age doesn't matter much as long as they ain't under age.

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