Second paragraph, first line typo of "Stuxnet" as "student", I believe.
Cyberattacks on Iranian nuclear program were a US-Israel effort started under the Bush administration and continued by President Obama, The New York Times reports. The confirmation from Obama-administration officials that Stuxnet was a joint US-operation comes from extracts from a forthcoming book, Confront and Conceal: Obama' …
The first thing he did was give the Bush gang get out jail free cards and his day one promise of closing Guantanamo turned out empty.
He has extended the so called war on terror into additional countries and greatly expanded slaughter by drones.
By some measures Obama has been a warmonger worse than Dubya & Co but he's the one with the Nobel Peace Prize on his mantelpiece.
While I agree with a my fellow commentosser above that it's laughable that Obama was awarded a Nobel Peace Prize, the Stuxnet operation simply wasn't terrorism. It wasn't intended to cause fear, panic etc (because it was covert and designed not to be discovered) and it wasn't against civilian targets (a nuclear weapons programme is not a civilian target). You can't just label whatever you disagree with "terrorism".
"So now we have confirmation..."
You might have. I don't. These guys are paid to lie. Presumably they aren't *so* bad at their job that they are unable to do so. Whilst I am loathe to give succour to internet conspiracy theorists, I have to concede that having unnamed US officials "confirm" that their government is conducting an undeclared war against Iran in an election year doesn't quite meet my own personal standards of evidence.
But only because its such an obvious Big 0 missfire. The Idiot in Chief can't stop himself from spiking the football whenever he thinks he needs a war boost to win the "easily led" squishes. Whether it was "leaking" details on the actual killing of Osama or this it follows a familiar pattern: he beats his chest and some other poor sod doing the dangerous work get killed or jailed for it. Meanwhile Joe "Plagiarist" Biden goes on national TV and worries about the damage it might have cause The Big 0.
In the light of the latest information in the press and after deep and careful consideration, we have decided not to pursue the case of extradition due to fact that the person on the other end of the phone line apparently chocked to death. Laughing. Then, the second person who picked up the phone pissed his pants also suffering from what appeared to be a heart attack, while the third person just put the phone down. This indicates an extremely low (aka blue moon) chance of success in finding and bringing the perpetrator to justice, despite the grave nature of the crime which HMG would in all other circumstances, pursue relentlessly*.
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I can't see how this helps unless there's all out war (where intelligence is acted on ASAP). It just ups the ante, invites retaliation and ensures all future systems are offline with network cables cut.
Wonder how long before the spied upon develop effective revenge strategies. Reckon it's not if but when.
Oh, and I nearly forgot: the spied-upon now have just the excuse they want to ignore any restraint.
... as the virus is reversed engineered and sent out by criminals who are so keen to get hold of our credit card, bank account details etc.
Now we know who to blame it would seem. Politicians obsessed with short term goals who can't see beyond the end of their noses, are they to thick to realise that these virus will come back to haunt us all? I suspect they don't actually care.
If the Iranians have learnt from their previous experiences and battened down their hatches, then that will leave further efforts from the US and Israel hitting their 'wall' and bouncing off, much like the ricochet bullet, but worse as all an sundry with malign intentions get hold of it and use it further their, umm, 'interests'.
Given that this was an offensive, pre-emptive operation by one or two states against another "enemy" state, it will be intersting to see if the USA and Israel (if they really were in cahoots to make the attack) can retain any moral authority in the internet-as-a-battlefield stakes. It does seem that none of the perpetrators will be able to go bleating to anyone if some other state (or maybe even non-state) decides to go after them: either in retaliation or just for LOLs - after all, they started it.
It also make you wonder if this undermines the americans' ability to prosecute cyber-attackers, since they are not above using the same tactics, themselves.
Since cyber attacks are a very good match to asymmetrical warfare, by pulling the cork out of the proverbial these guys may well find that any baddies with a botnet or two could wreak much more damage on them than they managed to incur on their (first?) target.
I just wonder how many moves ahead their strategists were thinking when they decided to start down this particular road?
"It also make you wonder if this undermines the americans' ability to prosecute cyber-attackers, since they are not above using the same tactics, themselves." ..... Pete 2 Posted Friday 1st June 2012 16:42 GMT
Oy vey ...... of course it does, Pete 2. To suggest otherwise would be to identify oneself as a hypocrite of the highest order? And it kinda blows all firewalls down and any doors right off their hinges and to smithereens in the process.
Nice one, Uncle Sam. Way to go in the race to the bottom of the barrel with failed intelligence.
I think that ship sailed regarding this particular axis of evil half a dozen decades ago.
probably the first case of someone using code to publicly shoot themselves in the foot (excluding everything that ever happened at Redmond of course)
I'll bet Mcinnons legal types are pissing themselves.
oh and PS
to everyone who insisted the US would not be so stupid
I Told You So!
So now we know who to blame, right? Just before the big quake there were news items about Stuxnet having been spotted in Fukushima's systems, which were running the same Siemen's controllers stuxnet exploits. Perhaps the catastrophic failure of the cooling system at Fukushima had a little "help" beyond the quake.
>>Anyone using Linux is better off dead, and their families too.
So, dearest Jeebus, which way you yourself would like to die? Cause, you're using Linux this very moment while reading it:
Server: Apache/2.2.22 (Debian) mod_apreq2-20090110/2.8.0 mod_perl/2.0.4 Perl/v5.10.1
Id have to read the book but considering the "officials" are unnamed my money's on it being bullshit.
NSA would have had to do it, considering they're the only ones with enough expertise to do something like Stuxnet, and they dont talk about operations even to each other. They sure as hell aren't going to tell some author, and even then if they did, that agency is so heavily compartmented that noone really knows whats going on intentionally. My money's on it still being an Israeli project because of all the Political clues in the program itsself that only Israelis would have cared about, like the date in 1979 when they executed an Iranian Jew, so on and so forth.
And the comment on the election made me laugh, because obviously Mr. Hypponen doesn't get how it works in the US. The Romney camp would/will still accuse the Obama administration of being soft on Iran. And people would believe him because [sarcasm] democrats are ALWAYS soft on defense you know [/sarcasm], nevermind two democrats started the war in Vietnam, a democrat led the US during WWII, etc etc.
The only way that attacking Iran would help Obama would be if he started bombing the place tomorrow, but even then the Republicans would attack him for it like they did over Libya.
"My money's on it still being an Israeli project because of all the Political clues in the program itsself that only Israelis would have cared about, like the date in 1979 when they executed an Iranian Jew, so on and so forth."
Complete toss. Give me any date in the last century and I'll find some amazingly meaningful anniversary for it - or, indeed, any six figure string that could be interpreted as a date in the last century. It's Da Vinci code nonsense to suggest that they'd go to great lengths to maintain the secrecy and plausible deniability of the virus and then plant all sorts of stupid clues in the code.
Personally, it's getting kinda sickening, all the polarized comments thrown out here.
The braying about how the US is the best, how 'we' got Saddam, Usama, etc.
How 'we' carry a big stick, how 'we' can make counties become 'glowy-but' places.
And then calling others names who don't disagree with 'we/us'.
This crap does not make the world a better place. It only works towards alienating others from you.
On that note: you're doing a great job so far.
Hypothetically speaking....Israeli Military says, Let's play First Strike Global Nuclear War! US Commander in Chief says, No, I'd rather take the lesser of two evils. Mossad/NSA/CIA says, Let's use a virus to cause a centrifuge explosion and render their undergound uranium processing facility uninhabitable for a few centuries. We can't bomb it because it's too deep for our bunker busters. Obama says thats a great idea and voila, we have Stuxnet, Flame, whatever (and a whole new "Cyber Warfare Command" to keep generations of Cowboys happy for years to come)
As far as Fukushima is concerned, if Stuxnet got into their systems, it probably came from a USB drive that one of the Siemens PLC engineers used while they were in Iran, consorting with known criminals. Fault still falls on Tokyo Gas & Electric for not requiring a background investigation of service techs entering their facility. A simple look at a passport might have prevented that infection if it indeed ocurred.
The ramblings of an anonymous coward notwithstanding, we don't need any more speculations of that type.
<Sarcasm> What we need are this type: The Republican Party and all of it's party members (especially it's elected and religious leaders) are part of a huge homosexual, fascist conspiracy. By protesting so loudly against Gay Marriage, the Republicans are swaying the American Voter to vote for Gay Marriage. This is specifically designed to double the current amount of Divorce Lawyers and CPA's.
As you astute readers of El Reg already know, all Republicans are latent closet queens who enjoy dressing up in drag at their exclusive private universities, lying about sexual prowess in "Fraternities", cutting the hair off obviously "gay" prep school classmates (to dissuade discovery), tanning salons and "mens clubs". I mean, just look at their hair for god's sake. Any man who spends that much time in front of a mirror MUST BE GAY. (not that there's anything wrong with that, the courts here have just decided that calling someone gay is no longer defamatory or cause for slander)<sarcasm>
The Republicans can complain all they want about Obama, at least he was not lifelong friends with the BinLaden family like Bush Sr & Jr were. If anone is keeping track, Obama has kept almost all of his campaign promises, unlike most of his predeccessors. Oh, and he authorized killing Osama and other members of Al Qaeda. No, he hasn't closed Guantanamo Bay but he has to have someplace to send Republicans with treasonous ambitions.
"Fault still falls on Tokyo Gas & Electric for not requiring a background investigation of service techs"
is a bit like saying people with HIV shouldn't fuck monkeys... when it's spread that far the only way is to put a giant condom over your junk (making sure to get plenty of hot glue in all the usb ports.
course the gear is pretty much fucked by then anyways.
I would bet if that were true, thge C-130's would be stuffed to the limits with Republicans.
On the inaugural flight, the Captain is heard to say over the intercom: "Ladies, and Gentlemen, you all expense paid vacation trip tot Club Gitmo is preparing for takeoff. Please stow all loose luggage and strap yourself in. Some lucky vacationers will get the 'full experience' by parachuting in from 12,000 feet."
Why do I keep getting this scene from "Con Air" in my head.
"Obama wanted to get credit for Stuxnet, as that makes him look tough against Iran," said Mikko Hypponen, chief research officer at F-Secure. "And he needs that as Presidential elections are coming."
Well good. Because national security and international law are NEVER more important than a politician's image during an election ...
Personally I blame Nixon ... but then I've been spending a lot of time with my old hippy in-laws lately ...
The Pentagon and its Generals are wagging Obama's dog.
Just like they did with Clinton and baby Bush. Nobody here believes it, but the Pentagon got worried about the crude oil situation in the 1990's and they have been running the show ever since. They got the CIA and the State department to get excited about Iraq, Venezuela, and Iran. They got Obama to commit to the Philippines.
How does the army move its tanks, fly its planes and fire it's rockets with out oil?
The Pentagon is telling the President what to do and they're doing it on the Q.T.
...pure politics, no more , no less.
I guess the current people in the White House don't know what the word "secret" actually means. Then there is the propaganda ministry (aka New York Times) that prints whatever they are told to do by the higher ups.
In any other administration, there would be ALL sorts of congressional inquiries with calls for prosecution (see Scooter Libby case!).
Than again, maybe the worm invaded the New York Times and the story "just appeared".
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"we just have to hope that the VERY SIMPLE IDEA of a state being able to CREATE MONEY and not BORROW IT AT INTEREST off the banking mafia, will finally sink in"
Yeah, coz treating economics as a zero-sum game worked sooo well in medieval Europe and state-sponsored inflation worked sooo well in 20th century Russia, so trying out both ideas at the same time (and damn the internal contradiction) couldn't *possibly* have any downside.
Or even better, the quake was somehow organized by the United States? I can see where you're going… …… TheRealRoland Posted Friday 1st June 2012 17:14 GMT
What would happen if a nuclear weapon were detonated under the deep sea? Would it be obvious or would the aftermath be thought to be a natural catastrophe?
And is this necessary ……… http://www.rt.com/news/germany-israel-submarine-nuclear-missiles-884/ …… or a blatant possible nuclear proliferation mis-step with a technology capable of dual use on a par with uranium enrichment for peaceful energy purposes?
"What would happen if a nuclear weapon were detonated under the deep sea? Would it be obvious or would the aftermath be thought to be a natural catastrophe?"
Since seismologists are generally willing to offer a figure for how deep an earthquake was, and since that figure is generally measured in kilometres, my guess is that they'd have no trouble at all in detecting an earthquake whose centre was basically at surface level. (That's ocean-bed surface rather than sea-level, but since transverse waves don't travel *at all* through liquids, it is the ocean-bed that counts as surface in this context.
Even if you took a sub down, drilled a big (wide) well and dropped a nuke down the hole, I think you'd get found out. BP did.
I'm still looking for the reference, but I recall reading a few months ago that once the Iranians understood the nature and intent of Stuxnet, they redoubled their efforts, spent even more money on even more centrifuges, and achieved their uranium enrichment goals well ahead of time.
So Stuxnet actually expedited matters rather than slowing them down. Oops.
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