back to article LG: We're not walking away from Windows Phone

LG is denying it has lost interest in Windows Phone following reports in the Korea Herald which claimed an "insignificant" number of Microsoft-bearing handsets had been sold. The original report in the Korea Herald didn't even state that LG was giving up Windows Phone, only that it hadn't sold a lot of the kit, and that the …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Sad day for Microsoft

    Bribery didn't work, intimidation either. What's wrong with OEMs these days ? Thank God for Android tax.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Sad day for Microsoft

      Bollocks - it serves Microsoft absolutely right.

    2. Charles Manning

      How this business works

      MS has only made pittance from sales of WinCE or MoPho or whatever it is called. It might have even lost them money.

      They have made much, much, more money out of Android.

      However to get really good settlements out of Android they need to be able to show damages. Therefore they need to stay in the business. Therefore they need to keep making phone software just to make the game work.

    3. Ilgaz

      Nobody can keep both

      I don't think Lg and htc has enough resources to keep the chaotic (on purpose) Android and Ballmer's fantasy same time.

      Releasing the future default browser only for ics, google said "enough, keep up or stay behind" to device manufacturers. Not directly of course.

      They have dozens of devices waiting in queue for ics and in summer, Android 5 hits the door.

  2. JimmyPage
    FAIL

    The only way M$ will rescue Windows Phone

    would be to go an a spending spree, and get the 1,000 top apps for iPhone/Android (which in reality will be the top 1000 apps, period) ported to Windows Phone.

    The few people I know who have considered a WP handset recently, have all been swayed by my (becoming boring now) complaint of the lack of apps (I mean, no official BBC app ffs !), and bought Andriod instead - including my missis ......

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The only way M$ will rescue Windows Phone

      "would be to go an a spending spree, and get the 1,000 top apps for iPhone/Android (which in reality will be the top 1000 apps, period) ported to Windows Phone."

      You think so? Well the Nokia Ovi store for apps for their Symbian menagerie boasted 116,000 apps at the end of last year, and you've undoubtedly noticed how successful Nokia have been of late. I'm therefore guessing that if MS make several 000 crapps available, even with a handful of very good ones that isn't going to overcome market inertia and disinterest.

      If they want WP to fly, then it has to do something different, distinctive and good, compared to two relatively mature and competent alternatives (or three if I include Symbian).

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The only way M$ will rescue Windows Phone

        Agree, it isn't the apps. People are just sick of MS and their mediocre products. MS stomps the cool out of any product. If they are going to show up to a market 3-4 years late, their offering had better be amazing, not adequate. MS is used to getting by on adequate.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The only way M$ will rescue Windows Phone

          "MS stomps the cool out of any product."

          MS are getting old and tired, you only have to look at most of their products to feel their age and granted, their experience. You take iPhone and Android and a lot of it is bleeding edge and that's what the impatient punters want. Back in the day company X could say we will do such and such in a years time and people felt some loyalty and would wait, these days the first company to make XYZ new feature work at least 80% of the time wins the game and the fickle punters jump. See the sad demise of the once mighty BlackBerry to see what happens when you're at the whim of Joe Public, you get left behind if you don't give the punters new toys.

          MS desperately need someone or something to step in and give the whole company a huge kick up the arse and a shot in the arm. They're too big to die but they will find themselves going the way of IBM, lumbering on, still respected but ultimately left on the subs bench in the fun games where the high-street punters want to play.

          1. Spearchucker Jones
            FAIL

            Re: The only way M$ will rescue Windows Phone

            "...take iPhone and Android and a lot of it is bleeding edge..."

            One word. PureView.

            Another word. Muppet.

          2. Asher Pat

            Re: The only way M$ will rescue Windows Phone

            "MS are getting old and tired" - yeah, selling all those Kinects to kids does make your hair silver, kind of, isnt it?

      2. Asher Pat

        Re: The only way M$ will rescue Windows Phone

        "If they want WP to fly, then it has to do something different, distinctive and good, compared to two relatively mature and competent alternatives"

        They already do. WP7 is at least as good as Apple and Android, and it is really different - if you say something like the above, it means that you have never tried the platform. So why are you commenting?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The only way M$ will rescue Windows Phone

      Not just the apps course (which are a proverbial graveyard, and with a app SDK that's all about to change again and make everything upto this point incompatible again), it's also about the crappy phones.

      Nobody really wants single core, fixed storage, bluetooth transfer lacking, low resolution feature-lite and non customizable phones from 2009 in 2012...

      It's not like the Windows Phones from any particular company are any better than others, they all suck, it just depends on the only product differentiator, like coloured bumpers.

      I can't recall us ever selling a single Windows Phone in our store, it's 70% Android, 30% iPhone..

      1. h4rm0ny

        Re: The only way M$ will rescue Windows Phone

        Is it me, or are there a lot more Anonymous Cowards on the Reg these days? I bought a Lumia 710 the other week. Connects to my calendar systems, neatly integrates my different email accounts, as apps for anything I've wanted Apps for so far (I think 95% of apps out there are either duplicates or crap so I really don't care much about that). It may be single core but the software runs everything I've wanted it to run smoothly so who cares. Plus it cost me £160 SIM free for something that does everything I'd want from an iPhone.

        I'm not saying anyone else needs to or should buy it, but I can't understand all these ACs appearing here (assuming they are different ACs) and ranting about how it is complete rubbish, etc. It's fine. Does everything I need and does it well. People are even looking at it and going 'oooh', etc. whereas iPhones are ubiquitous and cliché. Not that I care much about fashion, but it is an unexpected surprise to find myself regarded as a fashionista because of my phone. ;)

        And oh, it *does* have Bluetooth, fyi.

        1. JimmyPage
          FAIL

          And oh, it *does* have Bluetooth, fyi.

          And can you send contacts, pictures using it ? No, thought not.

          1. h4rm0ny

            Re: And oh, it *does* have Bluetooth, fyi.

            "And can you send contacts, pictures using it ? No, thought not."

            Well the Lumia imports contacts via Bluetooth, don't know about the rest. I haven't needed to export contacts, etc. from my phone as I only bought it last week. It neatly transferred those contacts I wanted it to in and out of Outlook which is a big pluss (along with my calendars). If you're someone who needs to transfer pictures by Bluetooth and it doesn't do it, get something else or wait until the functionality is added. It's a non-issue for me. Anything I want to transfer I normally do by WiFi. 3G or cable. But the phone does have Bluetooth, which a post up above strongly implied WP7 phones did not so I was just correcting that (along with other things).

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Why did you bother to post ?

              To tell us that your WP phone can *receive* BT connections. I know that. But the fact there is no way to SEND data via BT means it's crippled at best, and at worst, shouldn't be able to claim it has bluetooth or not (I don't know what the BT specs say is necessary to claim BT functionality).

              When phones from 10 years ago could send contacts via BT, isn't a bit odd that a 2011 HTC Trophy can't ? And this is not a niggle ... it's a massive hole in the features. How do you think it looks, when you are in a meeting with 3rd parties, someone asks for your contact details, with their phone prepped to receive a BT ping, and you hand them a business card. Is that a phone you want *your* employees to be seen with. Because I don't.

        2. Pat 4

          Re: The only way M$ will rescue Windows Phone

          "People" could not care less weather or not it's a great phone that does everything perfectly.

          Fact is... the Microsoft phone doesn't do one single thing... NOT ONE... that all other phones also do just as well, or better.

          Some phone actually DO some things much better than the Microsoft phone does.

          The Microsoft phone has some very SERIOUS issues with battery, web browsing, data disconnection etc... and that will scare people away.

          The current phones will NOT be supported on the next version of Windows phone, therefore in 2 years time, that shiny new Lumia of yours will be as useful as a paper weight.

          And last but FAR from least... Microsoft is a very VERY HATED convicted monopoly abusing marketing company that FINALLY... users have an alternative for that was there first, and is better... why in hell would ANYONE in that right mind EVER WANT a Windows phone??? It's a piece of JUNK.

          Have a nice day.

          (I assume as usual, this comment will be voted to oblivion within the hour... let that rug-burn begin)

          1. h4rm0ny
            Facepalm

            Re: The only way M$ will rescue Windows Phone

            You wrote: "People could not care less weather or not it's a great phone that does everything perfectly.Fact is... the Microsoft phone doesn't do one single thing... NOT ONE... that all other phones also do just as well, or better."

            Actually, I kind of like the way it runs Excel, integrates with Outlook, my calendars, streamlines multiple email accounts and has a really simple to use interface. Having used the interface on Android phones and iPhones, I can say that imo there actually is something, sorry SOMETHING, that it does better than both, and that's the UI. It's a lot neater and quicker to use, imo. Others may disagree but a lot of people prefer it. Oh, I've realized why you quoted "people" earlier, You're implying that I'm making it up. Well people I've shown my phone to have really liked it and there are plenty of reviewers who've been surprised how much they like it, so I stand by my "people", thanks.

            Besides which, my phone cost me £160 SIM-free. I wouldn't care if the latest iPhone could do the same things, my cheap little phone meets all my needs and meets them really well.

            "The Microsoft phone has some very SERIOUS issues with battery, web browsing, data disconnection etc... and that will scare people away."

            "The" microsoft phone (see, now there's a good use of quote marks). As in the only Microsoft phone? There isn't the blistering array of them that you'll find Android on, but I think you'll find there's more than one. I did read somewhere that there were some battery issues with WP7 that were fixed with an update if that's what you're talking about. Mine is fine. And my phone has done nothing to scare me with its web browsing or data disconnection, thank. Both have been fine.

            Maybe I'm holding it wrong?

            "The current phones will NOT be supported on the next version of Windows phone, therefore in 2 years time, that shiny new Lumia of yours will be as useful as a paper weight."

            Yes. I am sure that when Windows 8 is released, my phone will magically stop working, will have no apps written for it, etc.. Just like there aren't any people still using XP six years after it was superceded. Quite frankly I am terrified by your suggestion that in two years time, my technology wont be cutting edge any more. Imagine that!

            Seriously, how much of an axe to grind do you have to have to reach for such reasons to hate my phone?

            "And last but FAR from least... Microsoft is a very VERY HATED convicted monopoly abusing marketing compan"

            Oh, that's how much of an axe you have to grind... Well when MS got fined by the EU, I applauded. I've been using Linux since at least 2002 and I think I was running Debian at the time. But that was then and this is now and at this point I will use whatever works best for me. So I actually have both Debian and Windows 7 here, and now I have a WP7 device too. I have no problem with that.

            Really, stop shouting at other people for not hating the people you hate. If you're upset about monopolies, why don't you turn your ire on Google or condemn the dominance of the iPhone who make Microsoft's version of Lock In look like a day-release prison.

            "why in hell would ANYONE in that right mind EVER WANT a Windows phone??? It's a piece of JUNK."

            Well, the shift key on its virtual keyboard works, unlike on yours apparently. I don't think the word junk means what you think it means. I am after all getting a lot of use and productivity out of it right now. Not overpriced, either.

            "Have a nice day."

            Thanks.

            "(I assume as usual, this comment will be voted to oblivion within the hour... let that rug-burn begin)"

            And we conclude with a trite attempt to pass off all the downvotes you get for a very SHOUTY post filled with hyperbole about junk and hatred, as being motivated by bias. Perhaps you should consider making less ranty posts less motivated by your hatred of Microsoft. Just a suggestion.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Facepalm

              Re: The only way M$ will rescue Windows Phone

              > Actually, I kind of like the way it runs Excel, integrates with Outlook

              How well does it integrate with non-M$ products?

              > Having used the interface on Android phones and iPhones, I can say that imo there actually is something, sorry SOMETHING, that it does better than both, and that's the UI. It's a lot neater and quicker to use, imo. Others may disagree but a lot of people prefer it.

              If this was Wikipedia it'd say [who?]

              > " Oh, I've realized why you quoted "people" earlier, You're implying that I'm making it up. Well people I've shown my phone to have really liked it

              People I've shown my penis to have really liked it, as well. I've just been exceptionally choosy about who those people were.

              > and there are plenty of reviewers who've been surprised how much they like it, so I stand by my "people", thanks.

              How do reviewers make their living?

              > Just like there aren't any people still using XP six years after it was superceded.

              XP wasn't superceded - Vista was so poor that people didn't switch.

              > Really, stop shouting at other people for not hating the people you hate.

              It'd be so much simpler if Reg forum just had an 'ignore' button.

              1. h4rm0ny

                Re: The only way M$ will rescue Windows Phone

                "How well does it integrate with non-M$ products?"

                Such as? It supports IMAP, POP3, etc. so it will work fine with any standard email system and the contacts with different email accounts are easy to manage. IE9 works fine on all the sites I've tried it with. So email and browser is 90% of your functionality right there. If you want to know about specific software I'm happy to answer if you tell me what you want to know.

                "If this was Wikipedia it'd say [who?]"

                Well me obviously, and presumably all the other people who have bought one. Small numbers in relative terms but then iPhone and Android have been around for years. WP7 is very recent and for quite a while you couldn't even find it in shops in the UK.

                "People I've shown my penis to have really liked it, as well. I've just been exceptionally choosy about who those people were."

                It's almost certainly the case that they've been choosy about you, as I've never yet met a man who found there are fewer people he wants to sleep with than who want to sleep with him. At any rate, your analogy doesn't make sense.

                "How do reviewers make their living?"

                By reviewing things. But if you're implying they're open to financial inducements, I suppose it's possible that they can be influenced. Are you suggesting that all the positive reviews of iPhones, Android products etc. are the result of bribery? Or do you only suspect a positive review to be faked when its a rival brand? ;)

                "XP wasn't superceded - Vista was so poor that people didn't switch."

                So basically you're agreeing with my counter-point that WP7.5 isn't going to suddenly vanish or stop working when Win8 comes out as someone argued? Thank you. It's nice you're agreeing at last, though I suspect it's simply because you don't realize your knee-jerk attack is actually supporting my counter-point to an earlier poster.

                "It'd be so much simpler if Reg forum just had an 'ignore' button."

                Or alternately, if people were a bit politer rather than insinuating that those they didn't agree with shouldn't be heard. Politeness doesn't cost anything. It really doesn't.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The only way M$ will rescue Windows Phone

          "Connects to my calendar systems, neatly integrates my different email accounts, as apps for anything I've wanted Apps for so far (I think 95% of apps out there are either duplicates or crap so I really don't care much about that)."

          Exactly, the Lumia is ok. It does a most of the things the other phones do, but why then would you expect people to toss their current phones and jump on WP? If you are late to a market, you have to have a disruptive feature, something new. You can't just say "this is pretty much as good as iPhone and Droid and we're Microsoft, so buy this."

          1. h4rm0ny

            Re: The only way M$ will rescue Windows Phone

            "Exactly, the Lumia is ok. It does a most of the things the other phones do, but why then would you expect people to toss their current phones and jump on WP?"

            Who said I did? Nowhere have I said anyone should. I just object to the insane bias that some are showing here - to the point that they will mod down simple factual posts or attack someone who just says they like it. It integrates better than any of the others with my work systems and I prefer the interface to Android or iPhone. No big deal. No-one has to throw out their existing phone. But I expect not to be modded down to oblivion for it. Perhaps I have too much faith in humanity or perhaps as others have said, there are shills amongst us.

            At any rate, I hope we have not become so tribal that people will mod down actual facts or reasonable statements because they see users of another type of phone their enemy. Or that it's so inconceivable that someone can simply be stating their preference without someone assuming that they must be telling others they have to ditch their exisitng phones and "jump on WP7". Try it if you have an open mind and see if you like it, next time it comes around that you get a new phone. But we're not all extremists here who are demanding that others use phone type X.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Sprinting away?

    Or maybe backing away cautiously; in case it bites (or sucks)?

    1. Charles Manning

      Naah. It's Moonwalking

      It might look like LG are trying to embrace WP, but they are really going in the opposite direction.

  4. Durdy

    I'm not surprised manufacturers may be losing interest (although they'd never admit it)

    What can they do until MS adjust the allowed hardware set/ release OS upgrades? They could re-release and re-brand an old phone every 6 or so months, but apart from that theres not much option.

    It's obvious MS have jumped into bed with Nokia, and other OEMs will now be playing second fiddle.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      There's a superb irony here. LG and other OEMs can afford to release Windows phones at the moment, see how they perform, discontinue them as and when they see fit.

      There's only one manufacturer that *must* ditch Windows Phone, right now, before it drives itself into bankruptcy. (Hint: it begins with N.)

      1. auburnman

        It's probably already too late for 'N'. Even if they put out an announcement today that they were reversing every stupid change they had made in the last X months and going back to their old platform or embracing Android, they will never recover the lost goodwill from ditching a platform/sacking developers and their shares would tank because they appear confused and directionless (again.)

        Not to mention the $1Bn bung they got from 'M' which has probably handcuffed them to the rail of the Titanic.

  5. Tom 35

    We're not walking away from Windows Phone

    They called a cab.

    1. Gene Cash Silver badge

      Re: We're not walking away from Windows Phone

      "LG is fully on board the Windows Phone train"

      Must be British Rail

  6. Bob Vistakin
    Pint

    Lets keep this in perspective

    As recently as Jan Lumia sales were reported to be a 1.3 million in total: http://goo.gl/2LHWe

    Android activations in Apr were running at 850k per day: http://goo.gl/IXh09

    Both figures are rising, yet it's not too far a stretch to say right now Android easily activates each week the total number of Lumia phones sold to date. The ratios are getting like the desktop Windows/Linux desktop one, in reverse - it's fantastic poetic justice.

    I'd also question how many of these Loser phones are actually, genuinely chosen by neutral end users and not those somehow forced to because of their job, like a journo reviewing it or a corporate bribed to roll them out to all staff etc.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Lets keep this in perspective

      Before I got mine, I went out and looked dispationately at iPhone, Android, WP7 and Blackberry. I wrote a list of functionallity that I needed and functionallity that I absolutely would not have. There was also a list of nice to haves.

      I never thought it would be the case but the WP7 (an HTC Trophy) came out on top.

      Apple lost out becuase of no FM radio and requirement to run iTunes.

      Android lost out, frankly, because of Google because of their continued information slurping and incomprehension of basic privacy issues.

      Blackberry (I forget which one) lost out becuase of the keyboard and small screen.

      WP7 won because it had an FM radio and a nice UI, it also played nice with my workstation at home. Furthermore Zune has a pretty large amount of artists on it for occasional download and most of my favourite podcasts are availbable on it.

      I realise that Androids are endlessly customiseable, but that's why I have a fedora laptop, I fail to see why I should ever need to edit a hosts file on my phone.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. asdf
        FAIL

        Re: Lets keep this in perspective

        >I never thought it would be the case but the WP7 (an HTC Trophy) came out on top.

        Good great now how about avoid being an anonymous coward if you are going to trumpet your purchase (AC half the time are astroturf marketing drones paid to blog).

        >Furthermore Zune has a pretty large amount of artists on it

        Lol you were on roll there I was almost believing but there goes your credibility. Lmao Zune.

        1. Andy Hards

          Re: Lets keep this in perspective

          I found tunes on Zune that I'd looked for for ages and not found elsewhere. Also I tested a Lumia 800 expecting to hate it but found it crisp and clean, intuitive and very connected. I really wanted to hate it but was sad to give it back. Come upgrade time I'll be hunting around for the 900.

          I'm no marketing drone either. Have you actually tried one for more than a few minutes?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Lets keep this in perspective

            > I'm no marketing drone either. Have you actually tried one for more than a few minutes?

            Worst sex ever.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Lets keep this in perspective

          @asdf - I assure you I'm not an MS shill (you'll notice I said I have a Linux laptop?), I have been commenting on this site since you had to personally email the author of an article. I no longer comment with my name because I find some of the behavior of other commentators unacceptable - the final straw was someone telling me that based on my name they thought they knew who I was and would be going to try out the security of my employer. ASDF, however tells me little, it doesn't tell me that you don't comment under other names and it doesn't tell me that multiple people don't comment under that name.

          Also, you don't seem familiar with Zune or at least, haven't used it, if you don't know that it is the hub for WP7 and is where you download tracks and podcasts (yes, you can also download over the air, but this also syncs up with Zune.) It does indeed have a very large amount of artists.

          @AC 22:35 - No, I don't distrust Google based on "what some bad man said about Google", but based on my own observation of how my partner's Android phone works and of how Google - without my logging in - offers me search results based on previous searches /from other computers in the house./

          @AC 07:44 - FM radio uses far less energy and works (generally speaking) in more areas than IP radio, which I have used of occasion, for some reason the reception of Radio 4 where I work is particularly poor, but I tend to use my desktop PC for that as we have a stonking great leased line.

          1. asdf

            Re: Lets keep this in perspective

            The point to not posting AC is people can look at your post history to see 1. you didn't just create an account because your employer paid you too for this one critical article and 2. get a feel for what kind of poster you are.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          FAIL

          Wow.

          Smug, arrogant, overtly sensitive about criticism of their favourite OS and will defend their beloved brand to the bitter end? We need a fandroid icon...

          1. EdPearce55

            Re: Wow.

            The worst thing is the tribalism. People are actually judging each other - and themselves - based on the phone they use. Or the OS on the phone they use.

            I'm beginning to worry about the human race.

            1. GrantB
              Coat

              Re: Wow.

              It's not so much tribalism as Brand association.

              I am not a marketing droid, but have picked up working in the industry, to know that mobile phones are exactly the sort of product in which brand/quality is important and used to judge people as much as clothes.

              Just watch a group of people at a pub/airport or business meeting with phones in their hands or sitting in front of them. Regardless of what brand of car they own or what they are wearing, you make value judgements when they pull out a old battered Nokia, vs Galaxy SII, or iPhone. Though Blackberries are interesting; here in NZ it is only serious business users have them, normally company supplied but have seen them used by teenagers overseas.

              Yet to talk to anybody with a WP phone in the wild, but if I did, I would probably assume they were from an MS only development shop or were given it by a business in some form or another. Not a positive brand association in any case.

              But back to the article. Question raised when MS and Nokia partnered up, was always going to be how other WP partners would react. I guessed that MS could use leverage for a while - like discounts on patent fees/license fees to keep companies like HTC in line, but I can't see that LG/HTC/Samsung will continue to make WP7 phones in the future. LG are probably the smallest of the WP7 makers remaining, but look at HTC - the One phones running Android are flagships products.. and I can't even think if they have ever advertised any phones running WP7.x

              1. h4rm0ny

                Re: Wow.

                "It's not so much tribalism as Brand association."

                Tribalism. I can clearly see people in this comments section taking issue with others making different choices. That's not "I associate traits with someone who uses a particular brand", but 'I attack those who are different to me,; and 'I automatically downvote those who belong to a rival group.' Tribalism.

                "Just watch a group of people at a pub/airport or business meeting with phones in their hands or sitting in front of them. Regardless of what brand of car they own or what they are wearing, you make value judgements "

                You might. Others might. Not all of us are so shallow that we judge people by their phone. I'm slighly offended you think everyone is like you in this regard. Judging someone by their brand of phone is - honestly - a reprehensible attitude. I can see how people get sucked into it - having people cooing over my Lumia is a novel and gratifying experience. But I didn't buy it for that and I wont (I hope) be letting it influence any future purchase decisions.

                "teenagers overseas.

                Yet to talk to anybody with a WP phone in the wild, but if I did, I would probably assume they were from an MS only development shop or were given it by a business in some form or another"

                Then I hope from here on you will lose this incorrect, and quite frankly strange, preconception. I've never worked for MS (I believe they were one of the buyers for some software I worked on, but that was UNIX networking software for reference). And yet, I bought a WP7 phone, because I liked it and it seemed better to me than other phones. And I bought it myself, it was not issued. So you should recognize that your perceptions are skewed and rather than object to reality not fitting your perceptions, you should adjust your preconceptions.

                "Not a positive brand association in any case."

                Which brings us back to bias and prejudice. Google are to privacy what salt is to slugs. Apple are world leaders in lock in and marketing on fashion rather than functionality ('I'm a well-dressed Mac, I'm a suit-wearing PC and slightly overweight'). No better than MS in my opinion, but you wont see me having a go at people for using Android or iPhones. Nor will you see me reflexively downvoting any post that lists their positive features. You agree that judging people by their phone brand is bad, I hope? Though your post gives the impression you think its okay if it is a WP7 device.

                Regarding your final point, I imagine non-Nokia providers will continue to sell WP7 and later Windows 8 devices. If there's a market there that you're well equipped for, you sell in it. You don't just leave it to your competitors uncontested. HTC make phones that are fine. The O/S is as important to buyers as the hardware so they will probably not rule out a portion of their hardware sales for the sake of the O/S.

                My understanding is that one of the problems for the hardware makers is that MS is setting hard rules about how their O/S can be deployed on what. That's bad for providers and carriers who want to load it down with crap or bugger about with it. But it's good for us the customer.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Wow.

                  The not-so-subtle-point I was trying to make is that this is *exactly* what the regular trolls around here accuse anybody that has any positive things to say about Apple of doing with a nasty vitriol. Personly, by what you like, use what works for you; sadly many of the fandroids, and make no mistake these guy *are* smug and arrogant, cannot see beyond their own fanaticism and woe betides any who question their own opinion of exactly how the world should be. The same individuals are beginning to infect site like SO and HN, which is extremely sad...

          2. Whitter
            Trollface

            Re: Wow.

            While the fanboys are busy praising Lord Jobs, do fandroids just dream of elecric sheep?

        4. h4rm0ny

          Re: Lets keep this in perspective

          "Good great now how about avoid being an anonymous coward if you are going to trumpet your purchase (AC half the time are astroturf marketing drones paid to blog)."

          Does that apply to the more numerous ACs up above who are ranting about how rubbish the Windows Phones are? Or do you only apply your accusations of bias against those you disagree with? That's a rhetorical question: you only have levelled attacks on people for saying positive things about the WP7. It's not people liking or preferring iPhones or Android phones that I dislike. It's the slathering bias and misinformation on show here. For evidence of that, look at all the downvotes the GP got just for saying they did a comparison of the features they wanted / didn't want and found that the WP7 came out as their preferred choice. Not very incendiary, not anything factually wrong. Downvote after downvote because they aren't slating Microsoft. Bias bias bias... If you want to level accusations of "astroturfing", isn't it more logical to look at the campaign against it as that seems to be more one-sided, more loaded with bias and ad hominems?

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Lets keep this in perspective

        You didn't get Android because of what some bad man said about Google on the Internet, but bought a Microsoft phone, that's just as bad, if not worse track record for privacy...

        Microsoft's shills have been planting all sorts of unfactual information about Google's privacy policy into the empty heads of morons willing to believe any crap they read on the internet.

        Not a week goes by where I hear "Google sell your information", myth which is utterly untrue. They use your information across THEIR products to improve theirs clickthrus. THAT'S VERY DIFFERENT. But actually no different to what Microsoft, Facebook and Yahoo have been doing for years.... If anything this brings them more into line with what everyone else has been upto for years.

        Personally, I blame the irresponsible tech media for misreporting,lazy churnilism and a Microsoft fueled "google hatefest" that seems to be being created.

        If you want to get your masses on your side, tell them all the top dog needs kicking down a peg or two and come join the underdog. Microsoft played this card against Sony to get the Xbox a foothold in the American market, and now playing the same card to morons against Google to try and get Windows Phone a foothold in the American market. They know that those dumb Brits will just follow what the Yanks do anyway. Who will it be next???

        (Rant over)

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Lets keep this in perspective

          Hah hah, keep drinking the cool aid. I guess one could technically argue that Google are actually selling ACCESS to my personal information rather than the information itself, but that is splitting hairs really. Either way, I do not want a company tracking everything I do on the internet, ripping off any content I create and using stolen content from 3rd parties to attract my interest so that it so it can then try to shove 'products and services' from 'trusted partners' down my throat. Google are an advertising company. That is how they make their money. As far as I am concerned, they have no morals, no ethics, they do not innovate and their products are (with the exception of search), poor quality rip offs of existing, more superior products. The personal who posted the orginal rant appears to not have noticed the other Google articles on the Reg today, who know, the ones talking about them stealing wireless data with their street view cars, stealing code from Sun Microsystems/Oracle etc, writing T&Cs for Google Drive that allow them to steal any content their users create etc. They are a disaster waiting to happen and I suspect they will spend a lot of time in court over the next few years as people slowly come to realize what a nasty company they are and how they have been shafted by Google

          Anyhow, what amazes me is that people have so little self dignity that they feel giving away all of their personal information is a worthwhile exchange for a poor quality mobile phone operating system. Android has, and always will be, successful amongst poor people because they cannot afford any alternative. It is the people who can afford a better alternative yet still opt for Android that confuse me.

          1. David Chambers
            FAIL

            Re: Lets keep this in perspective

            There you go - it's the poor people again that are causing all the trouble. How dare they think of buying a smartphone!

          2. Zack Mollusc

            Re: Lets keep this in perspective

            I am fairly poor, but I am willing to buy a better alternative to android. As soon as someone makes a better phone OS, I will be hammering on the shop door. Yes, I have tried the others.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Lets keep this in perspective

        You forgot to namecheck Barnes and Noble. Didn't you get the memo? Better run back to your desk and catch up on your email....

      5. enerider
        Go

        Re: Lets keep this in perspective

        I'm not exactly sure why you got all the downvotes, seemed like a fairly balanced view there.

        I too have an HTC Trophy (currently my time filler on it is a NES emulator, otherwise I mainly use it for listening to music while working. Otherwise, all data, GPS, 3G, WiFi options are switched off and I use it as a phone).

        I'm not overly concerned about the Zune front, I only really use the Zune software to add/remove music to the thing.

        Although if I really wanted a phone with everything and the kitchen sink, I'd look more to an ARM-something board and attach a touchscreen to that. Mini-box.com (no, I'm not affiliated with them in any way, thanks for your concern) has some kits available, which have Android and Angstrom available for them, as well as 4.3 or 7 inch touchscreen options which you can slap straight on.

        Although I'm more looking at their extremely tiny DC-DC power supplies for an ITX build I have planned - especially when ASUS release their beastly little mITX board with the VRM riser card. :D http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1155/P8Z77I_DELUXE/

        Sure the motherboard will be dwarfed by the graphics card, but I don't really need anything beyond what is provided on the board itself - results in a much more LAN party-able desktop with built in battery backup! (useful for those moments when someone daisy-chains one too many PCs and pops the overload, or trips on a cord and you're *just* about to send your swarm of zerglings hurtling into the base just to the left of you, or were just about to give that camping sniper that you've carefully crept up on a good old dose of knife).

        Anyways, if I really wanted to get absolute customisation into my mobile communicator, I'll attempt building my own. Just because.

      6. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Lets keep this in perspective

        I've never once connected my iPhone to iTunes. It would be extremely difficult for a start as I use Linux....... Also if you've got a proper network provider who give you generous data amounts then tuneinradio pro is MUCH better than any FM radio

      7. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Lets keep this in perspective

        "I fail to see why I should ever need to edit a hosts file on my phone."

        Well there you see you showed your complete ignorance and also showed yourself to be a paid MS shill. Having used Linux O/Ss for at least the last 10-12 years the amount of editing I do with config files these days is almost down to zero and then only when I have some really daft beta type thing that want to test. You'll probably find you're editing DOC/XLS more often than O/S config files these days on LINUX!

        While I don't like Google much and dislike Apple's mobile kit, I bought an SGS2 Android and like most of my IT experience I make sure I am careful not to put every single piece of my life into my tech, I "think before I blink" when it comes to personal info. Google are welcome to read my SMS messages and phone calls, if they think notes about train delays and "what's for dinner?" to the Missus are interesting! They're also very welcome to know that I am so boring I only like playing Sudoku games on my phone, they're very welcome to my scores.

        So stop all the ignorant bollocks MS shill. Seriously you walk up to any punter on the high-street and ask them to name some mobile phones, £50 says they'll say something like, "Apple, iPhone, Samsung, Android, Blackberry", anything you hear will be a bonus an extremely rare. The high-street punters are driving the direction of the mobile market, makers of kit like MS no longer dictate where the market goes and that my friend is why the WinPho/WinCE whatever the heck it's called now, will simply be a footnote on the MS Wikipedia page within 6 months!

        1. h4rm0ny

          Re: Lets keep this in perspective

          Poster A: "I fail to see why I should ever need to edit a hosts file on my phone."

          Poster B: "Well there you see you showed your complete ignorance and also showed yourself to be a paid MS shill"

          Your logic is infallible. The poster does not see a need to edit a hosts file and is therefore paid to be posting by Microsoft.

          "and that my friend is why the WinPho/WinCE whatever the heck it's called now"

          Wow. And you dare to lambast someone else for ignorance. That's like saying "the BeOS/MS-DOS/iOS whatever the heck it's called". WindowsCE and WP7 are almost entirely different systems.

      8. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Lets keep this in perspective

        > WP7 won because it had an FM radio and a nice UI, it also played nice with my workstation at home.

        Work-life balance issues there?

        > Furthermore Zune has a pretty large amount of artists on it for occasional download and most of my favourite podcasts are availbable on it.

        You bought it for Zune?!!

    2. Richard Plinston

      Re: Lets keep this in perspective

      > Lumia sales were reported to be a 1.3 million

      That was also claimed to be 33% of the WP7 market.

      In Q1 Nokia claimed to have sold (they probably meant shipped) 2 million Lumias. The question is: did this increase the total WP7 market, or was it that Nokia stole market share off the other makers and now has 60% of the WP7 market.

      With MS kicking in for advertising Lumias and paying sales commissions to phone shop staff for them then why would any other maker bother with WP7s when MS is acting against them.

      And allegedly allowing Nokia to differentiate from the rigid specs that others must follow.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Lets keep this in perspective

      It's also rumored those Windows Phone numbers were shipped, not sold, and included at least 200k freebie handsets to press developers and anyone willing to risk their credibility by claiming Windows Phone is a winning platform.

      I think you can also bet that the other large part of those numbers are sat in a warehouse or store backroom gathering dust and keeping the door open.

      I don't know ANYONE with a Windows Phone, not personally, or in the tech sector, it's become a laughing stock.

      1. Robert E A Harvey
        FAIL

        Re: Lets keep this in perspective

        >I don't know ANYONE with a Windows Phone, not personally, or in the tech sector,

        > it's become a laughing stock.

        And yet, tiles have been such a magnificent success that the flagship desktop product is adopting them.

        Hmm.

        Fail, MS, fail.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @Bob

      You say that we should keep perspective yet you immediately twist it into an unfair comparison.

      Windows Phone has been released roughly around 2010/2011, so its approx. 1 year old whereas Android already has a lifespan of nearly 5 years (went beta at the end of 2007).

      So if you want to keep things into perspective like you said then please compare the sale rates for Android over the year 2009 / 2010 and compare that to Windows Phone. That might provide a totally different image.

      I can't help fail to understand arguments like yours. As if everyone should consider a project to be a failure if it doesn't provide instant success and adaption, that's just stupid. Some products and developments require time to mature.

      Java is now one of the most used programming languages out there. I've been to Sun presentations where they demonstrated Java version 1; hoping to get anyone interested in the language.

      Imagine what would have happened if Sun would have reasoned like you're doing.... "The project didn't catch on world-wide after roughly 1.5 years so we'd better call it quits".

      1. Charles Manning

        Windows Phone released roughly 2010/2011???

        Windows Phone, in the guise of Windows Mobile, has been going since 2000.

        Microsoft have been in the phone biz for 12 years now. It's a bit rich to say they need more time to prove themselves.

        1. h4rm0ny
          Facepalm

          Re: Windows Phone released roughly 2010/2011???

          "Windows Phone, in the guise of Windows Mobile, has been going since 2000."

          WP7 and Windows Mobile are completlely different animals. Why bring Windows Mobile into a discussion about WP7? Just so you can try to make the case that WP7 has been around for longer? Even though both externally and under the bonnet they are vastly different?

          1. Danny 14 Silver badge
            Stop

            Re: Windows Phone released roughly 2010/2011???

            echo another comment. I have used my FM radio on my S2 maybe twice or three times. tuneinradio pro is FAR better and works in more areas tbh. Forget using the FM radio whilst walking, it simply isnt good enough. PLus you are very limited on FM nowadays - still its your phone do as you will.

            As for google slurping data, I bet MS do the same, as to apple and so do RIM. Google dont sell peoples data. They sell advertising. Why would google sell its only leading edge? Blocking adverts and stopping crap going out of your phone is trivial on android. I would guess very hard on apple (jailbreak at a guess) and I dont know about the winphone.

            I discounted winphone on the strenght it has no external storage. 10-12gb free is pitiful. My S2 is now 4gb free internal and about 6gb free on the 32gb card. The other 32gb card is full of kids movies for holiday travel.

    5. 5.antiago

      Re: Lets keep this in perspective

      Why are you comparing sales of one Nokia model on Windows Phone with the sales of ALL Android handsets from ALL manufacturers? What kind of perspective are you attempting to keep here exactly?

    6. Brezhnev's Shadow
      Boffin

      Re: Lets keep this in perspective

      I would suggest Nokia need to quickly upgrade the Harmattan/Maemo N9 which the Lumia is almost 100% based on, it's a bit of a cult item in the non-core Euro markets where Nokia are allowing it to be sold, it may well need 2 cores and some other changes to keep up soon, although the OS is pretty efficient, apparently the rumour is that quite a few are being ordered and shipped internationally by desperate punters...... OK this doesn't help LG so much ...

  7. Mikel
    Devil

    Hold the stick firmly, but low

    In a calm tone softly say the words "good dog" while backing away slowly.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    rolls eyes....

    MSs only failure with WP was the PR war which it lost, and is still losing.

    forget everything else, as a PHONE its actually very good, unfortunately it got slated for what it wasn't rather than what it was .

    MSs other failure was letting OEMs and networks Crap all over Windows Mobile 6.1 and not improving the OS until it was too late, then ditching everything that made WM the best pocket PC on the market.

    Pocket PC and Smartphone are two very different things, WM owns PocketPC, WP owns smartphone, android and iOS own the middle ground

    1. Anonymous Coward
      WTF?

      Re: rolls eyes....

      > WM owns PocketPC, WP owns smartphone, android and iOS own the middle ground

      New astroturfer please. This one is broken.

  9. Brezhnev's Shadow
    Boffin

    I am biased since the other half has one but

    Can I just say the LG Optimus Sol with Android is fab for the price and hard to see how even their own WinPhones could compete directly with that. It's not tough like maybe a more expensive HTC with alloy frame, but the LG's front glass is also Gorilla-ed and the display is awesome. I can only imagine how good a higher-range LG would be. LG, where's my fee? !!

  10. MIc

    I find it odd that if any one says anything positive about a product that doesn't fit the current El Reg narrative they have to be a mole on the take.

    1. Franklin
      Happy

      Not odd at all. That's generally the way it is with almost any comment on almost any Internet community devoted to almost any subject.

      Go onto YouTube and say that the moon landings AREN'T a hoax and we really did send human beings to the moon, and sure as rainbows someone will say that you're getting paid to be part of The Conspiracy. Go onto a "natural medicine" forum and say that homeopathy has not been proved to work (and often has been shown not to work), and you can bet that as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow, a dozen people will accuse you of being a paid shill for "Big Pharma."

      This is the Internet. The only possible reasons someone could ever have to post anything that disagrees with you is either (1) they're idiots or (2) someone is paying them to.

  11. MacroRodent Silver badge
    Happy

    Ah, this is how Nokia differentiates

    A year back, Elop justified going with Windows Phone by saying it allows Nokia differentiate its products from the competition better than what the Android choice. A year later this seems to be coming perfectly true: Nokia is well on its way to becoming the only WP shop...

    1. 5.antiago

      Re: Ah, this is how Nokia differentiates

      I don't know if you mean this in a bad way or a good way, but I agree and I think it is a good thing for Nokia (of whom I am fond). In a year's time Nokia could be a position of offering something very different to everyone else. Time will tell on how strong a proposition that will be...

      1. MacroRodent Silver badge
        Boffin

        Re: Ah, this is how Nokia differentiates

        The trouble here is what one justification for the switch to WP offered by Elop was building a new "ecosystem" as an alternative to Android and iOS. Can Nokia do it on its own, with no other HW vendors? if yes (after all, Apple manages it), Nokia could just as well have gone with Meego, without paying the MS tax. But if he though of an Android-like multivendor ecosystem is needed, things are going very badly, if other HW makers than Nokia stop being interested in WP. In this case it would be a replay of Symbian (it too started as a multivendor platform, but actually wound up being proprietary to Nokia). In some ways it would be worse than Symbian, because Nokia has much less control over it, hampering innovation. (It is telling that Nokia's first "PureView" cameraphone is not a WP device).

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Fantastic News

    This is fantastic news for Windows Phone. It's good to see that LG are still committed to the best smartphone operating system on the market today. It's been a bit quiet from their perspective recently, but there's no doubt in my mind that they will be working on the next generation of Windows Phones in the background to keep them on track with the Windows Phone 8 timeframe

    All the haters on here just you wait once Windows Phone 8 comes out that will be the real game changer and Android will be left in it's wake. Why develop for Android when you can develop for Windows 8's fantastic metro interface and easily port the code to Windows Phone 8?

    1. Eponymous Cowherd
      Joke

      Re: Fantastic News

      Excellent spot of ironical commentary, there......

      That was irony, wasn't it? It certainly looked like it.

      But why did you post as an AC? Oh my God. You were serious.......

      You are Steve Ballmer and I claim my cash prize.

    2. Brezhnev's Shadow
      Megaphone

      Re: Fantastic News

      I think I just got green carpet burn on my knees stopping to read that after you kicked it in from the sidelines, nicely played sir, MS will be over the moon after sitting on the benches so long, and the others will be sick as a parrot, early bath for them ;)

    3. Dante

      Re: Fantastic News

      ...and no effort was made to even appear remotely "human".

  13. Rez
    Happy

    LG Phones

    I have a LG Optimus 7 & the reason why they never sold in large numbers is simply due to the fact that its poor compared to the competition (screen quality, stupid little power button, camera button activates when I'm on a call as its in a stupid position....), LG need to make better products if they expect them to sell better. Still, it is the easiest WP to unlock & I quite like the OS ;)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: LG Phones

      Yes, I looked at the Optimus my general opinion was that it was plasticy and didn't feel robust.

      1. Brezhnev's Shadow

        Re: LG Phones

        Samsung are if anything even more so, less use of Gorilla Glass in their range than LG, doesn't seem to stop them though, bigger marketing juggernaut than LG and good otherwise!

    2. Brezhnev's Shadow

      Re: LG Phones

      Theyŗe Ultra Amoled now, and more visible in strong sunlight, don't know about the other bits .....

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Windows just isn't cool or desirable

    Windows isn't cool, and never can be, as an entranched boring market leader due to slimey business practices and being the Thing We Use At Work and Always Goes Wrong At Home.

    Recently in the UK we've suffered a hideously embarrassing TV ad campaign for the latest version of a bleedin' web browser, FFS - as if anyone cares.

    It's like watching your nerdy middle-aged uncle trying to dance at a wedding, using all the latest slang, dressing like a teenager.

    * shudder *

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Windows just isn't cool or desirable

      It's an Operating System, you should more worry if it is cool. It is a tool, not a fashion accessory.

      1. David Hicks
        FAIL

        Re: Windows just isn't cool or desirable

        Oh dear! Someone doesn't understand the smartphone market at all.

        To you and me features and function may be king, but to everyone else?

        Of *course* it's a fashion accessory! Mobiles (well, the ones that want to sell in huge quantities) have been primarily a fashion accessory since the late 90s. You need the right one, and the right one is an iPhone if you're an independent thinker with good taste, or Android if you're a free-thinking non-conformist! If you don't get either of these then clearly your independent or free-thinking nature hasn't led you in the right direction, that being the one everyone else has moved in.

        That said, MS and Winphone can suck my appendages, I'll not be buying one.

  15. andy 45
    Thumb Down

    But I dont want Android or iOS

    Let's hope there's still some other choices when my update comes around.

    I don't want anything to do with Google or Apple, thankyou.

  16. 5.antiago

    LG need to make a WP in order for us to consider WP as a success?

    I've previously owned LG phones and while I've not seen a WP by them I'll go out on a limb and say that it's probably not a very good phone, just like the rest of the LG stable. As a hardware manufacturer LG have their own troubles in the smartphone space, I think it makes sense for them to concentrate on Android (which will be miles bigger than WP for the foreseeable future) given the reality of how well Samsung and HTC are doing. The fact that LG needs to concentrate its energies just to keep up with rivals is not necessarily a sign that WP itself is bad, just that it's not quite right for LG strategy in particular.

    1. Brezhnev's Shadow
      Pint

      Re: LG need to make a WP in order for us to consider WP as a success?

      You'ŗe dissing their Entire Product Range including all other non-phone things they make, although you are just guessing about what they might be like? Ouch! Did they mortally insult your favorite auntie or something? ;)

  17. druck Silver badge
    Devil

    LG is fully on board the Windows Phone train...

    ..but the carriages are still at the station because the locomotive is shunting Nokia over the Cassandra Crossing.

  18. PeterM42
    FAIL

    The low number of sales of LG phones......

    ......probably has more to do with LG producing rubbish phones.

    LG should not only "walk away" from Windows, but from Android (and any other phone OS) as well. That way the poor customers would not end up having paid out good money for a crap phone.

  19. mhenriday
    Boffin

    As Darwin explained, variation + differential reproduction → natural selection -

    at least when such is not inhibited by lawyers and artificial monopolies. Having come late to the mobile phone feast, which it originally deemed unimportant, Microsoft can't apply the same strategy and tactics it did to monopolise the desktop. This time consumers do have a choice ; whether they will exercise it wisely is another matter....

    Henri

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    To each their own

    I have a S2 because, among others:

    - it can use a SD card for storage

    - I can connect it to any USB port out there and copy stuff from/to it, no extra software required.

    Basic basic basic stuff.

    WP and iOS can not even do that, and I don't comprehend how other people can accept these limitations. But I do accept that they have different needs and different criteria.

    AC always because El Reg screwed up my privacy, not because I am a shill.

  21. PeterM42
    FAIL

    LG should walk away...........

    .......from phones altogether as they only make unreliable ones.

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