back to article Indiana cops arrest violent 6-year-old

Indiana cops detained a "belligerent" six-year-old last week, after the cantankerous nipper kicked his school principal and threatened to kill two other members of staff. The unnamed perp, who reportedly has previous form for "hitting and biting staff", was escorted from Hendricks Elementary School in Shelbyville to a squad …

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  1. jai

    people just don't arrest a six-year-old

    sounds like an exorcism would be more appropriate

    1. Armando 123

      Re: people just don't arrest a six-year-old

      Or a spanking.

      I know people are against corporal punishment, but isn't putting others around this little sh*t exposing them to something quite similar to it?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: people just don't arrest a six-year-old

        Exactly!!!

        The little sod obviously wanted some attention and the school going mental and OTT gave the little sod exactly what he was craving. He a got to see some cops up close and a free, no doubt, fun ride in a squad car! How stupid are these teachers?!

        As any half decent parent knows when your little darlings start with "I WANT!" and throwing a paddy 'cos it's not forthcoming, the last thing you do is give in and give them any attention! You tell 'em to pack it in or you'll take away XYZ for the next week, then let them sulk on it!

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: people just don't arrest a six-year-old

          >He a got to see some cops up close and a free, no doubt, fun ride in a squad car!

          Believe me when I say the punishment you get from your parents after the whole street has seen you being brought home in a police car, then havinng the car parked outside while the police explain to your parents what you've been up to is not a price worth paying.

          However, maybe parents aren't as concerned about their offspring these days.

        2. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. Homer 1
        Holmes

        Re: "Spanking"

        Depends.

        Maybe it was "spanking" that caused this kid to be violent in the first place. Maybe he's physically brain damaged, or has bipolar affective disorder, or ate the wrong kind of mushroom. Or maybe he really is just an irredeemably evil little bastard (i.e. genetically predisposed toward antisocial behaviour). Anything's possible.

        I'd start by asking the question that apparently hasn't even occurred to anyone else: why?

        Nothing happens without a reason.

        Impulsively "spanking" as a first and only resort won't reveal that reason, and thus will never solve the problem. Granted there are sociopaths who lack any reason, but even there "spanking" won't miraculously cure their affliction, because they're incapable of understanding why they should be punished. Short of imprisonment or termination or science-fiction cures like genetic reprogramming, there's not a lot you can do about it, beyond taking whatever measures are necessary to protect yourself and everyone else.

        But surely those are rare and extreme cases. In every other case there's a reason, and therefore a potential solution. "Spanking" probably isn't one of them, though.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "Spanking" @Homer 1

          That's the biggest load of namby pamby tosh I've read in a long while.

          To answer your question: Why? Because he can, it's fun, there are no repercussions and he'll continue until there are.

          Before you get into why he should consider inflicting pain to fun, children just do. That's why they laugh when Tom stands on the garden rake ot the coyote gets squashed by his own anvil.

          1. sisk

            @Homer1 & @Chris W

            You're both a bit off base. Let's dispense with some misconceptions, shall we, and remember that all children are different, as any parent with more than one kid can tell you.

            Some kids will kick an adult because they don't care about the consequences, which doesn't mean there aren't any. Some think it's fun. Some are would be lashing out against what they percieve as on unfair punishment (and such kids tend to think all punishments are unfair). For some kids right and wrong just aren't that important. That doesn't mean they're sociopaths. They just don't yet have a well developed sense of morality. Rarely do kids ever lash out like that just because they can.

            And then there's how you deal with it. For every kid there are some punishments that are more effective than others. There are some kids that you can get down on their level and tell them that what they did was wrong and they'll never do it again. Other kids do best when put in time out to consider it for a while. Some kids you can get through to by taking away priviledges like TV or video games. Then there are kids whose attention can not be gotten by anything less than a firm spanking. You have to know the kids to determine which is the best approach.

            1. Homer 1
              Headmaster

              Re: "well developed sense of morality"

              I'd argue that any child incapable of understanding that it's wrong to kick someone, for any reason other than justifiable self-defence, is either brain-damaged or a sociopath.

              Understanding basic morality is not quite on a par with understanding, say, rocket science. Merely being a child is no excuse. The real "namby pamby" here is treating children like they are incapable of understanding anything, and therefore you have a free pass to use violence against them, because "you know, what else can you do?"

              I don't assume children are retards. I just treat them like people, albeit short people. It amuses me how puzzled other adults are at children's behaviour around me, simply because I don't baby-talk them. They think I'm too "stern", but the fact is children adore me for it, and I've never had to lift a hand to any of them.

              Other posters who pointed out it's the parent's fault are quite correct, of course. Clearly such a child has no moral grounding. All I'm saying is that beating the hell out of him probably won't instil that moral grounding, it'll just affirm everything he's learned about violence. If he has anything other than a cabbage for a brain, he should have the capacity for reason, but you won't appeal to that sense of reason with a fist.

              If after your best efforts he still turns out to be an irredeemable sociopath, then so be it, at least you tried. Then please feel free to beat, lobotomise, torture, imprison, or execute him, or whatever else gives you satisfaction.

              1. Mad Mike
                Thumb Up

                Re: "well developed sense of morality"

                Homer1.

                I agree totally. You try and reason with them and depending on their age, some will take it, some won't. Obviously, this depends on theri home life as well. If they've been dealt with reasonably from day one, they're more likely to think about it and try to reason it, whereas if they've been abused, neglected or pampered all their life, they're more likely to kick off and keep kicking or whatever. Nothing wrong with talking to children and trying to explain, it's just that we have to accept that some are either not capable or don't wish to think and reason it. Then, there needs to be a sanction. Nobody is talking about beating a child, but simply administering a smack or restraining them as a final resort.

                Anyone who can't tell the difference between a smack and a beating needs to question their reasoning ability.

        2. Marshalltown

          Re: "Spanking"

          You write as if you are not a parent and don't remember being a kid either. Children are individuals and they are born with distinct personal attitudes. If they weren't, we'ld be worse off socially than we are. There are a lot of really scary folks out there who are parents of very decent children. With a kicker or biter the "reason" per se, may simply be that they are frustrated. The target of the agression wouldn't listen, wouldn't play, wouldn't help, wouldn't shut up, or something. With a principal, the cause was likely would not stop condescending long enough. With a six-year-old frustration is common enough. Ideally, yes, first find out "why," if possible. Then, explain the golden rule: don't bite unless you want to be bitten, don't kick unless you want to be kicked.

      3. Alexander Vollmer

        Six-year-old with limited experience

        Call it non-verbal communication instead of corporal punishment, clarifies the purpose.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: people just don't arrest a six-year-old

        So many calls for corporal punishment, it's really turning into the Daily Mail comments section here. Look at it this way, we know beating a dog is an ineffective way of training it so why do you expect it to work any better with a child?

        Personally I think the principal did the right thing. It's not as if he called in a SWAT team who broke down the doors, forced the kid into a stress position and handcuffed him. He was lead calmly by one officer to a patrol car and was then taken to the station.

        I was arrested when I was eleven years old for shoplifting and spent an afternoon in the cells whilst my cohorts were questioned. For a child that age it was a terrifying experience and it was made no better after I was released knowing I'd publicly humiliated my parents. I can tell you I certainly behaved a lot better from then on.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: people just don't arrest a six-year-old @AC 17:53

          >Look at it this way, we know beating a dog is an ineffective way of training it so why do you expect it to work any better with a child?

          Beating a goldfish is an ineffective way of training it so.... You get the idea, usless comparisons are just that, useless.

          The problem with the anti-cp brigade is that they go to extremes and refuse to see nor accept the difference between what is chastisement and true corporal punishment.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: people just don't arrest a six-year-old @AC 17:53

            It would be a useless comparison if training through violence didn't produce the same unsatisfactory results in all animals that can be trained to a reasonable degree.

            If you want to talk about useless at least I picked an example (a dog) that has a similar IQ to a child, whereas you went down the reductio ad absurdum route and chose a goldfish.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: people just don't arrest a six-year-old @AC 18:42

              >whereas you went down the reductio ad absurdum route

              I'm glad you noticed that, so you should be able to realise that corporal punishment does not mean a beating about the head until black and blue. CP has been adopted to make simple chastisement sound like an horrific beating.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: people just don't arrest a six-year-old @AC 18:42

                This being Indiana he's probably had plenty of spankings. Ethics aside, some children respond well to them others don't. Half the challenge of parenting is finding an effective method of disciplining each individual child which is a new challenge for each one.

                1. Marshalltown

                  Re: people just don't arrest a six-year-old @AC 18:42

                  "Half the challenge of parenting is finding an effective method of disciplining each individual child ..."

                  That is the real and awful truth. I have a son and a daughter. My son could be "chastised" with a look. My daughter, would likely not have yielded to to a club. Isolation worked wonders however - "you room, now." Every dog Ive' had was also that way as well.

              2. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: people just don't arrest a six-year-old @AC 18:42

                First off, I didn't even mention beating somebody about the head until black and blue. Second, you seem to be failing to understand that any violence, even if it's just a slap on the arse is counter productive. It's an ineffective way of training a child.

                I'm not sure what point you were trying to make with your last sentence. The dictionary provides two definitions for chastisement. One is a strong verbal reprimand (not corporal punishment), the other is a beating.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: people just don't arrest a six-year-old @AC 18:42

                  We'll just have to agree to disagree, but I do note that you consider a slap on the backside to be an act of violence. Also your reliance on dictionary definitions instead of an ability to grasp the gist of something may explain a few things.

                  1. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: people just don't arrest a six-year-old @AC 18:42

                    I consider it violence because IT IS violence. It might be mild or barely of consequence or however you want to justify it but that doesn't stop it from being violence.

                    Unless you're going to provide your personal definitions of words, then yes, I will be relying on the dictionary.

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: people just don't arrest a six-year-old @AC 18:42

                      >yes, I will be relying on the dictionary.

                      Then lookup up violence, all definitions include intent to cause injury, damage, abuse, etc.

                      1. Anonymous Coward
                        Anonymous Coward

                        Re: people just don't arrest a six-year-old @AC 18:42

                        violence, n - the exercise or an instance of physical force, usually effecting or intended to effect injuries, destruction, etc.

                        A smack on the arse is certainly an instance of physical force being used, and whilst it's not needed for the definition it does cause injury. Like I said, you can try to justify it by saying that it's a small or negligible injury, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.

                        Keep trying.

        2. Figgus
          Facepalm

          Re: people just don't arrest a six-year-old

          "Look at it this way, we know beating a dog is an ineffective way of training it so why do you expect it to work any better with a child?"

          I challenge you to train EITHER of them if the dog/child doesn't think YOU are the one in charge. If the dog thinks it is in charge, you'll get bitten and if the kid thinks it, you'll get ignored.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: people just don't arrest a six-year-old

            You don't have to be violent towards something to assert your authority. Try thinking a bit ffs.

        3. Marshalltown

          Re: people just don't arrest a six-year-old

          There's a profound difference between a spanking and a beating. That said, the entire purpose of any "punishment" is provide a learning opportunity about what constitutes acceptable public and social behaviour. I can say truthfully that as a kid, I would far rather have been spanked than had my mom bemoaning her embarassment and humiliation because I got into trouble.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: people just don't arrest a six-year-old

            Whilst there's a difference in the degree of violence inherent in a spanking or a beating, they're both still violent acts.

            A behaviour instilled through violence is based upon fear. That fear needs to be maintained otherwise the behaviour will revert.

            Are you trying to tell me the best way to raise a child is through violence or the threat of it?

      5. Chris 3

        Re: people just don't arrest a six-year-old

        Tempting as it may be, to do a bit of spanking, I'm not convinced it would help, At six it is "the parents who are to blame" seriously. If that kid isn't going to go off the rails for the rest of his life someone needs to get a grip on his home-life and what's going on. That might mean having to give them compulsory parenting courses. I really don't know.

    2. Inachu
      Angel

      Re: people just don't arrest a six-year-old

      Do what anotehr country did.

      Just send all criminality mental types to an island. Then let themselves sort out their criminal violent behavior onto another criminal. It works! Look at DOWNUNDER!

      They gave up the boisterous alpha mindset and decided to get along and live life as you should.

      1. Burkhard Kloss

        Re: people just don't arrest a six-year-old

        After living here in rainy blighty for twenty years: Either they stopped too early, or this simply doesn't work.

    3. Arctic fox
      Trollface

      @jai "sounds like an exorcism would be more appropriate"

      Indeed, which is why I find the end of this piece rather puzzling:

      ".....avoid suggesting execution is an effective deterrent.........."

    4. ItsNotMe
      Joke

      Hey...

      ...the kid had it coming!

    5. Mips
      Childcatcher

      Re: people just don't arrest a six-year-old

      Alternativly embalming

  2. sabba
    Mushroom

    I suppose it's a bit late to suggest...

    sterilising his parents!?!?

    1. Voland's right hand Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: I suppose it's a bit late to suggest...

      No, firing the principal and his staff would be more appropriate.

      When a police officer who has no particular qualifications with regards to childcare whatsoever is capable of calming down the "unruly" subject and making him walk voluntarily to the car my only conclusion is that the school staff is beyond incompetent.

      99% of the time when I hear an incident like this the person at fault is the incompetent parody of an educator in front of the whiteboard. I used to do volunteer work in a school before the "all adults are paedos" Labor mandate.I remember out of a class of 12 in a private school I remember seeing the following breakdown (same age group - 6 year olds):

      3 students hiding in the toilets

      1 pretending to be sick

      1 refusing to cooperate but in class

      1 refusing to enter class and attached to the radiator in the hallway in a manner where the only means to detach her would be breaking a limb or an angle grinder to detach the radiator.

      1 hiding in the library

      All of that in an "elite" British private school with multiple _OUTSTANDING_ Offsted report ratings.

      Are all these kids "at fault" - give me a f*** break. The teacher - yes. The principal - doubly so. Kids? I doubt it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I suppose it's a bit late to suggest...

        See as Voland's Right Hand demonstrates that he isn't a teacher and knows nothing about either teaching or the control of children.

        Volunteer at schools? I don't think so.

        1. Chris 3

          Re: I suppose it's a bit late to suggest...

          Nope, I volunteer at my kid's school - it's quite common. I help out listening to kids read and with an after-school science club - mainly because it gives me an excuse to buy dry ice - and go on school trips. What Voland's Right Hand demonstrates is that for some reason he didn't want to spend the 15 minutes required to fill out a CRB or List99 form.

      2. JulianB

        Re: I suppose it's a bit late to suggest...

        "When a police officer ... is capable of calming down the "unruly" subject..."

        I don't know the law in Indiana, but it might be as simple as a police officer being allowed to use reasonable force to restrain an offender, but the school teachers not.

        1. Armando 123

          Re: I suppose it's a bit late to suggest...

          And American cops carry guns. That will get a brat's attention.

          Plus think about how cops are portrayed on American tv. It creates an image that, though not entirely accurate, is effective at getting a kid's attention.

          Besides, maybe he associates police with his "uncles" being taken away and not seen again.

      3. glad i got out
        Pirate

        Re: I suppose it's a bit late to suggest...

        Seriously...

        My heart bleeds for the parents and teachers who actually want to parent and teach in the UK/US. Since the nanny-state and cotton-gloved numptys continue to expand I think I might begin offering Caribbean Attitudinal Neurological Integrated Nice-child Generating camps.

        I think, calling in the police was a great idea. By the sounds of it; this little bugger probably only ever feared the cops (cause his parents could never tell him "no" for fear of him divorcing them; and so let him watch "Cops/Thin blue line/etc"). The Teachers & Parents have no effective means of control any more.

        I don't beat my kids, but they're sure I will if they step out of line... so they don't. They have also been told that their Teachers have my authority to punish them any way they see fit; and if all that doesn't work, they know they're going to the local prison for the weekend.

        This little &*(%^(* doesn't have that.

      4. localzuk

        Re: I suppose it's a bit late to suggest...

        Working in a school, I can safely say that you, Voland's right hand, are an ignoramus.

        Schools are there to teach children. Teachers are there to teach. They are not there to act as prison wardens, they are not there to be kicked, shouted at, abused or anything else.

        If a child will not respect the role of the teacher, than it is the parents at fault for allowing their child to behave in that way.

      5. peyton?
        WTF?

        @voland

        Seriously?? In all your rant, you never once blame the parents?

        Shifting parenting from the actual #!@!$ parents to the schools is the #1 problem with education in America.

        1. Voland's right hand Silver badge
          Devil

          Re: @voland

          I am going to reply once, to avoid repeating the same thing to multiple posts:

          1. The teacher is _NOT_ a prison warden. However, the "Crowd Control" part of teaching profession is officially a requirement. One of the criteria during an Offsted inspection _IS_ "Is the teacher in control of the class or not". If not, she fails automatically even on the rather loose UK criteria.

          2. The teacher "in control" of that class blamed 4 kids as non-educatable and requested EP evaluations and statements on 4 of them (out of 12). Out of the 4, 3 that were _TAKEN _ _OUT_ by their parents and moved to a new school are doing fine now at the age of 11 (top of their class all of them). The remaining one has developed a fobia of school which to the point where she has a dislexic statement (I do not think she is dislexic - it is the little girl that attached herself to the radiator). Her parents are now sorely regretting that they did not take her out.

          3. Parents can do very little if the Principal is an idiot and the teacher is a union protected incompetent. A principal that has so little authority in his school that he has to call police to put a 6 year old under control is beyond salvation. This means his authority is ZERO. ZILCH. NIL. That 6 year old will now be followed by a horde of others. 6 year olds behave that way. It does not matter what you do at home, you leave them for 2 hours in the presence of someone they know is a muppet and there will be an ongoing riot all right. If there is no riot, they are not "normal" 6 year olds. In fact, that is not different with any students (I have seen more than once 16 year olds behave the same way when they see that the teacher is a muppet).

          4. There are plenty of ways for a principal (and a teacher) to have an unquestioned authority even in schools that in rather rough neighborhood. No need to be a prison warden to be respected even by year one. In fact "not being a prison warden" is probably a requirement.

          5. While I am not a professional teacher, I have taught in secondary, high school and university and I have never, ever had any issues with "class discipline". In fact, for some of the "elected" classes I have taught I have had issues with overcrowding and too many people wanting to move to my class (despite it being more difficult). This means that you have to make the class interesting though which is beyond the abilities of a lot of people who pretend to be "teachers".

          1. AshC
            Headmaster

            Re: @voland

            I sincerely hope you weren't an English teacher.

            1. Mad Mike
              WTF?

              Re: @voland

              Volands Right Hand seems to be demonstrating his point rather well. I'm not going to deny there are a lot of useless teachers out there for a variety of reasons; lack of English being one of them (shared by Voland by the looks). However, nations have decided to give them no method of control. Yes, some don't make lessons interesting and complain when the kids kick off. That's their fault. However, there are some kids that kick off no matter what you do and then what? What options have the government given the teacher to control them? Discipline starts in the home and by definition then extends into the classroom as teachers are 'in loco parentis'. In other words, whilst in their care, the teacher is the parent.

              However, if the parents don't do anything about bad behaviour at home, the teacher isn't going to stand a chance. The state has for years taken away right after right from parents and then complain when things go wrong. I wonder why. The state can't understand the difference between a reasonable slap or smack and beating the c**p out of a kid, so they ban the lot.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: @voland - Mad Mike WTF

                >Yes, some don't make lessons interesting and complain when the kids kick off.

                Lessons are not meant to be interesting they're supposed to be educational. I won't go into all that when I was at school business but when I was teachers taught and children listened and learned, if they didn't they knew what to expect. Teachers didn't have to make everything a game. When I'm counting change in the supermarket I don't need the cashier to make it a fun experience.

          2. KirstarK

            Re: @voland

            Your still anidiot.

            For example the girl with the radiator.

            Teacher: Little girl, let go of that radiator at once.

            Little Girl: No.

            T: Let go or I will tell you to let go again in a slightly louder voice.

            LG: fuck you

            T: detension

            LG: still fuck you.

            T: Right you litle shit.

            Pulls arm from radiator. Little girl gets tiny scrape. Teacher sent to prison. Papers full of abussive teacher headlines. Teach and school, and local authority all sued by little girls parents.

            1. Voland's right hand Silver badge
              Devil

              Re: @voland - @kistark

              Quote:

              "

              Teacher: Little girl, let go of that radiator at once.

              Little Girl: No.

              ...

              "

              I am not going to call you an idiot, but you will never be a good teacher, you will always fail if you have to teach anyone anything and you will never be a good people manager as well.

              1. She is not a little shit. She is an intelligent six year old which knows very well what she is doing with IQ well above average. She is non-violent. She may be stubborned, doing whatever she wants, etc but she is not a _LITTLE_ _SHIT_. No 6 year old is a _LITTLE_ _SHIT_. No human you are responsible for is a "LITTLE SHIT". Ever. Even if he kicks a principal. You need to understand why she has done so and deal with it. Part of the job do you like it or not.

              2. The incompetent union protected dolt that was trying to herd the class into the classroom as described in the original post did not understand some of the very basics of her profession (as I said, crowd control is a key requirement both for an educator and a manager). You have to chose your battles and win them. She never bothered to actually sit down in front of the girl for 30 seconds and have a normal, human, non-"LITTLE SHIT" conversation with her. She was just running around like headless chicken, clucking, complaining and end of the day going to the principal.

              3. By the way, I did a stint with the same class for a semester as a volunteer teaching assistant for an activity (they needed an extra person to take the kids swimming) and I did not have a problem with anyone in that class. Neither had their PE teacher. Neither had their "proper" teaching assistant. On the day when the "mayhem" was happening she was off sick so the actual "competence" of the teacher showed up with a vengeance.

            2. Ken Hagan Gold badge

              Re: @voland

              "Teacher sent to prison"

              They deserve it if they can't spell "detention".

            3. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: @voland

              Similar situation on a school coach trip to the WWI cemetries in France and Belgium - 40 or so kids on the top deck of the coach quietly doing their own thing and a parent (the one I was with) getting increasingly ticked off with one particular irritating specimen. Things escalated and she kicked him right up the arse. He demanded of the other kids 'who saw that' and they **who had all seen everything** refused to support him - mainly because he was irritating them as well. The teacher with his headphones on at the front of the bus didn't notice.

              I was mortified, but we did get to see the cemetries and the little fuck was a much better behaved specimen for the rest of the day .... and for some reason the other kids always 'just behaved' when she was around ....

              AC cos SWMBO might kick *me* up the arse ....

          3. James Micallef Silver badge
            WTF?

            Re: @voland

            Can't believe all the downvotes for Voland.

            I agree completely with some of the follow-up posts that the number 1 responsibility for educating the child lies with the parents, but teachers and principles can't just blame the parents for all misbehaviour and have no control at school.

            Calling in the cops = renouncing their authority. Kids are smart, they pick up these cues really quickly. From now on they know that the teacher and principle are no longer the ultimate authority in the school and can be 'beaten'. I think it would have been far more resourceful for the principle to call in one of the kid's parents

            1. Adam T

              Re: @voland

              Pretty extreme views :p

              There comes a point when you just have to do something, even if it's not the "best" thing to do.

              I'd have probably called to cops too if he whittled down my patience. Share some of the responsibility with the authorities. Caring is sharing, after all.

            2. Degenerate Scumbag

              Re: @voland

              They are not renouncing their authority. Their authority to implement effective measures to control children was taken from them a long time ago by stupid legislation.

              Those of you who are blaming the teachers here, please eloborate on your vague notions of "having control" or "asserting authority" and explain exactly what they should do when a child ignores their verbal instructions to behave.

            3. Chris Hainey

              Re: @voland

              Guys,

              How can we expect kids to behave in class and become model citizens when the teaching volunteers spell worse than 5 year olds.

              Some kids just don't want to do the same things in school as others.

              Little shits : maybe but these are the little shits that are disrupting my child's classes.

            4. Mad Mike

              Re: @voland

              @James Micallef.

              I totally agree with your comments, but society has removed teachers from this role, not necessarily the teachers. Yes, by calling the cops he's admitted defeat, but what other choice does he have? Society has removed all the previous options he had, so now the best he has is a stern talking to. Clearly, this is not the responsibility of all parents, but I've known plenty of parents go in and complain to the head when a teacher shouts at their poor little darling. On one occasion, a small child was about to light a gas tap in a science classroom. The teacher shouted at him to get him to stop this clearly very dangerous act. Result. In rush the parents and want him disciplined for shouting at their poor little love. You couldn't make up!! Perhaps they would prefer him burnt to a crisp (can then sue the school). Idiots.

              So, teachers do this because they have no real means of sanction anymore if the person refuses to co-operate and children of this age simply can't be reasoned with in an adult manner.

          4. Chris 3

            Re: @voland

            I dispute your assertion that "A principal that has so little authority in his school that he has to call police to put a 6 year old under control is beyond salvation. This means his authority is ZERO. ZILCH. NIL." As far as I'm concerned the kid who repeatedly tries to bite staff should be removed from school and dealt with. The school's primary responsibility is to the majority of well-behaved children who want to learn. Not the oik.

            The child should be put in a room until the parent comes to collect it and can be spoken to. If a parent is unable or unwilling to collect and the police are happy to help - go for it.

            I'm sick of these namby pamby people who feel that teachers should spend their time accommodating the whims of bad parents.

      6. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I suppose it's a bit late to suggest...

        The boy is familiar with the teacher, he has kicked in the past without punishment, thinks he can kick again and does so. The police officer arrives in uniform, the six year old has at least enough sense to know you don't kick a copper, especially one you don't know. For all his bravado he's probably shitting himself so he does as he's told.

      7. Steve Knox
        Facepalm

        Re: I suppose it's a bit late to suggest...

        "When a police officer who has no particular qualifications with regards to childcare..."

        So you researched this particular officer's training history, then? Or did you just presume that because he's a cop, he "has no particular qualifications with regards to childcare"?

        You DO realize that there are officers specifically trained to work with minors (particularly difficult ones), and that police departments do try, when possible, to send out individuals qualified for the task at hand -- don't you?

      8. KirstarK

        Re: I suppose it's a bit late to suggest...

        Your an idiot. The staff can do very little against the little shit and teh little shit knows it.

  3. Leonard 1

    Yes, but...

    "We have no doubt El Reg commenters will have strong opinions on just how best to deal with this pint-sized pugilist, but let's try to avoid suggesting execution is an effective deterrent to child behavioural problems."

    True, but that would solve the behavioural problem once and for all

    1. Field Marshal Von Krakenfart

      Re: Yes, but...

      Don't be silly, that wouldn’t happen in Indiana, he'd have to have an intellectual disability and be living in Texas (9) to be executed....... Oh hang on, Indiana has executed 1 person with intellectual disability.

      1. DavCrav
        Joke

        Re: Yes, but...

        I'm not sure being six is an intellectual disability...

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Looks like the parents need to administer that old trusted method of a "Damn good hiding!"

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      The good old days when a quick smak fixed 99% of the se problems.

      These day the effing-do-gooders would rather far rather:

      1. Invent mythical medical issues such as “Attention Deficit Disorder” that did not exit until after corporal punishment was band.

      2. Then get the kids sectioned as having some mental problems. This is actually what most of the crap parents want, as it gives them a reason for why their kids are so badly behaved, other than it beibng thier fault.

      3. Then get the kids addicted to drugs to calm them down.

      4. Blame poverty, as little Johny does not have the latest play-station or smart phone.

      All this rather than admit a little real punishment works in most cases, or at least it did for centuries until the cretins go their way.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        FAIL

        Re: The good old days when a quick smak fixed 99% of the se problems.

        Amazing isn't it.

        It's ok to clobber children, but not a cat or dog.

        As I disagree with your comments and think you are wrong, you will have no issue with me punching you in the face to get my point across will you?

        If you have to resort to violence to get your point across, you've failed.

        And yes I have 2 kids.

        1. Mad Mike
          FAIL

          Re: The good old days when a quick smak fixed 99% of the se problems.

          @Lost all faith.

          As usual, the anti-corporal punishment block take the extreme view. There's a world of difference between a smack and beating the hell out of a kid. Yes, you should try reasoning with a kid first, but they don't have full reasoning powers when young (some never) and therefore can't understand. So, what do you do? If one of your kids was about to put their hand into boiling water, what would you do. Explain it's wrong. Fine. Then, they try to do it. Do you physically restrain them (which is effectively violence), or do you try and explain quickly again, or do you let them do it?

          Every nation on this earth allows physical violence or restraint when needed. That's how police (and others) work. The issue is minimum force. I would restrain the child and then try and explain it. Yes, I've used force, but to protect them. Ultimately, a smack for a child misbehaving can also be protection. It makes them behave better, learn, do better at school and then not be a scrote. What's the matter with that?

          You are saying that when someone commits physical violence on you (whether he's 6 or 60 is irrelevant), you explain to them how wrong it is, rather than restrain them or stop it in some way. Silly. Nobody's saying kids should be beaten, but a smack now and then is not beating. It should, however, always be accompanied by an explanation.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: The good old days when a quick smak fixed 99% of the se problems.

            @Mad Mike - Would it be ok for a Policeman to administer a smack to an adult, if the adult wasn't co-opertating with him? No, it certainly would not and it's the same for kids.

            I never want to see a return to "clip round the ear" (AKA Someone beating someone else round the head) or a slap to the behind, also utterly unacceptable.

            If you can't control a child without resorting to violence all you are doing is teaching the child that violence is the way to get what you want.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: The good old days when a quick smak fixed 99% of the se problems.

              Sorry but violence is how the world works.

              Do you think making hamburgers is free of violence? The cow might have a different perspective.

              Bread? Um, it's pretty violent to cut the wheat, thrash it, grind it, then bake it. If you were doing that to people, you'd be a monster.

              Tie a Snickers bar around your neck and go for a walk in the peaceful, serene woods of Alaska. See how long it takes violence to find you.

              You aren't teaching the child that violence is the way to get what you want. You are teaching the child that if they step out of bounds, the violence of the world will descend upon them. That is inescapable. A swat on the ass at the age of 10 is much better than death by injection at 30.

              1. Ted Treen
                Boffin

                Re: The good old days when a quick smak fixed 99% of the se problems.

                @AC 16:52

                Nicely put.

                Amazing how much worse kids' behaviour has become since the fluffy touchy-feely brigade were allowed to hold sway.

                Kids today are told (and believe) they have a plethora of "rights" but absolutely no responsibilities.

                When my son (now 26) was a nipper, he had no "rights" other than the most basic and fundamental. Anything else was a privilege which was earned by obeying the rules, and as he got older, shouldering responsibilities (small at first, but increasing with age).

                Result? He's a thoughtful, responsible and caring adult now. I'm as proud of him as much as I love him, and we have a great relationship.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: The good old days when a quick smak fixed 99% of the se problems.

                  "Reasonable force is justified"

                  Reasonable force used to restrain somebody certainly but at no point does a clip round the ear or a smack across the arse constitute restraint. I've no problem with parents restraining their child or the police restraining a member of the public to to stop them or other people coming to harm but whacking them across the head to 'teach them the error of their ways' is a completely different issue. You seem to be conflating corporal punishment and restraint in order to make a point.

                  Years of research has shown that using violence to train animals just makes them violent and disobedient. Let me guess, it couldn't possibly apply to children too right?

            2. Degenerate Scumbag

              Re: The good old days when a quick smak fixed 99% of the se problems.

              "Would it be ok for a Policeman to administer a smack to an adult, if the adult wasn't co-opertating with him? No, it certainly would not and it's the same for kids."

              Er, police are allowed to use reasonable, proportional physical force when justifiable as necessary against uncooperative individuals. Are you now proposing that police lose their enforcement powers and just have to try to talk violent criminals into calming down?

              "Please stop stabbing that woman, sir, it's not very nice."

            3. kain preacher

              Re: The good old days when a quick smak fixed 99% of the se problems.

              No you would get pepper sprayed, zapped or taken down to the ground and arrested.

            4. Mad Mike
              FAIL

              Re: The good old days when a quick smak fixed 99% of the se problems.

              @AC.

              Errrrrr. Yes, it would be OK for a policeman to administer a smack to an adult if they're not co-operating and that's exactly what they do. Policeman tells you to stop. You don't. They are entitled to stop you using minimum force, including a smack if necessary, but more likely to be a blow from a baton. That's the law in most nations on this planet.

              I'm not saying a smack is the first resort, it is definitely the last, but it isn't an issue either. Kids don't necessarily understand and in order to protect them, or society, sometimes force has to be used. I just love the way some people think you can reason in an adult manner with a 5 year old and that they are old enough to understand, comprehend and then do.

              Ultimately, society is based around force. The armed forces use it, the police use it and the law uses it. If you contravene societies laws in a bad enough way, they will force you to prison and forcibly detain you. They won't talk nicely to you until you comprehend. They force you, using violence if necessary, because some adults simply will not or cannot understand what they've done.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                @Mad Mike

                Complete bollocks, a police officer might strike somebody with a batton but it's still just using the minimal required force to detain somebody. They're not allowed to go around striking people to punish them.

                Just because kids don't always understand it means you have to hit them? A person with the body of an adult and the mind of a child might not always understand either but we sure as hell don't go around striking them for it.

                1. Mad Mike
                  FAIL

                  Re: @Mad Mike

                  @AC.

                  I think you need to reread what I wrote. I said if a policeman told you to do something and you didn't, he was entitled to use force. I never said he was striking the person to punish them. So, if you're an adult and kicking someone, a policeman is quite entitled to stop that (and indeed the attacked person is) using force (minimum). That is might is right. Violence is being used (albeit minimum) to enforce what you are ordering the person to do.

                  I never said the child should be struck for not understanding. I said it was OK to strike a child to make them do as you say (providing what you're requesting is reasonable).

                  To put in context of this case, the principle should have had the right to self-defence from being kicked and he should have been able to forcibly restrain the child (or if secondary school strike if necessary) to prevent being kicked. Unfortunately, liberal idiots and peoplelike you have effectively removed that right and therefore the kid can go on kicking his with no issues. You should never strike or restrain a child after the event as they can't necessarily understand cause and effect over a period of time. But, if the principle had restrained the child (effectively force being used) at the time, the child just might have learnt that one someone in authority tells you to stop doing something, you stop. Period.

                  This will ultimately prevent the child from receiving a blow from a baton later when he starts going around kicking people in later life. That's called parenting, teaching morals, teaching respect, teaching that you're not the only person that matters and that society has rules you must not break. Ultimately, it wil give him a better adult life.

                  Your method will just teach him he can do what he likes, there are no repercussions and this will continue until he becomes an adult and suddenly gets his eyes open. A little physical chastisement early will save him a lot of pain later. I can only hope you're not a parent.

        2. James Micallef Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: The good old days when a quick smak fixed 99% of the se problems.

          No it's not OK to "clobber" children. A light, sharp, smack will do the job if a stern word has failed, and if it's not over-used.

          Unless your dictionary has a different definition of "clobber"

          1. my farts clear the room
            Coat

            Re: The good old days when a quick smak fixed 99% of the se problems.

            clobber was what I used to put on before heading to the discotheque .....

      2. henrydddd
        Unhappy

        Re: The good old days when a quick smak fixed 99% of the se problems.

        Quick smacks might be part of the reason that this child is so angry. All hitting does is create anger. The US seems to be headed back to the days where small children were brutalized or even killed because of a bahaviorial problem. Funny, people instinctively know that if you beat a vicious dog, it will only make him more vicious, yet we sometimes advocate beating children who have behaviorial problems will solve those problem. Sure, if the kid was 12 years old, arrest him and make him serve time in 'juvy'. But that child is only 6. He needs intervention in his life by professionals, not beatings.

        1. Figgus

          Re: The good old days when a quick smak fixed 99% of the se problems.

          Yeah, arrest him and put him in juvie because CAGING animals never makes them more violent.

          Wait, what? Seems like the whole bit about comparing kids to dogs is kinda silly now, doesn't it?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: The good old days when a quick smak fixed 99% of the se problems.

            In juvie you're released from your cell daily for exercise and so you can interact with your peers. Caged animals become violent either through deprivation or violent mistreatment or both.

  5. davtom
    WTF?

    What's the age of criminal responsibility in Indiana? -9 months?

    1. Roger Varley

      >>What's the age of criminal responsibility in Indiana? -9 months?

      No - that's the age when you can legally marry your cousin.

      1. LPF

        You sir owe me a new keyboard lmao

    2. Crisp
      Stop

      I don't think that the concept of criminal responsibility exists in america

      They'll quite happily execute a man with the mind of a child, so why not a child with the mind of a child?

    3. Armando 123

      Same age as decriminal blaming in California, IIRC.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    "...Hendricks Elementary School in Shelbyville..."

    You wouldn't find that sort of behaviour in neighbouring Springfield.

    1. Richard Wharram

      Re: "...Hendricks Elementary School in Shelbyville..."

      There's doings a-transpiring!

  7. Mad Mike
    WTF?

    Damn good hiding

    Given the 'sue everyone' mentality in the USA, what else could the man do? The kid needs a damn good hiding and severe curtailment of priviledges for a while, but I'm pretty sure the principle would be sued for that. That's even more likely as the parents presumably think this sort of behaviour is acceptable if they've sent a 6 year old to school like this.

    I'm not sure that execution of the child is fair, as it wouldn't solve the problem. The parents could breed again and have another bast**d like this. I would have thought execution of the parents to be far more effective in preventing this happening again, followed by a damn good hiding for the kid from a person in authority. Tasers, side arm batons etc. optional.

  8. Ilsa Loving
    Thumb Up

    Give the kid a scare

    If arresting the kid and having him driven to the police station in the back of a squad car is enough to put a little fear into the kid, then it absolutely is the right thing to do.

    Whether the kid is rotten, or because the parents arn't doing their jobs properly, is impossible to say based on what we know. But the kid obviously has no concern for the consequences of his actions, this will hopefully fix that.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A neighbour of the boy's family:

    "To my way of thinking, people just don't arrest a six-year-old. There are other ways to handle that."

    she kept, however, shtum on those "other ways", presumably because she hadn't come to that point in her "way of thinking" when asked the opinion.

  10. Mint Sauce
    Go

    "...pint-sized pugilist..."

    Is it time for another Playmobil re-creation? :-)

  11. My backside

    Why not execution?

    Execution would solve the immediate problem, but also ensure the genes were not passed on ad infinitum.

  12. RJBarnes82

    Where'd he pick up that kicking & death threats are viable recourses in the first place?...

    1. Justicesays
      Joke

      USA Foreign policy

      Where else!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Having seen similar behavior before

      If I had to sager a guess I'd say a combination of:

      - no discipline at home

      - unintentional reinforcement of bad behavior by the parents

      ... at least as a start. Kids don't necessarily need to be shown how to act like a little Butler, they are quite capable of figuring it out on their own given the right opportunity.

      Just my $0.02 (and yes I have kids)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Having seen similar behavior before

        Damn auto-correcting touchy-phone keyboards...

        Sager = wager

        Butler = Hitler

  13. Lloyd
    Thumb Down

    It never ceases to amaze me

    How the lefties seem to think that kids are sent to school to be disciplined. Kids are sent to school to be educated, it's up to parents to discipline their children, certainly schools can and should try to educate the child in the proper way to behave but if that's not backed up at home then it's pointless.

    1. Lamont Cranston
      FAIL

      Re: It never ceases to amaze me

      "Lefties"? I'm on the left of the political spectrum, but I don't expect school to be the primary source of discipline for my children. What are you on about?

      *a lack of sufficient income prohibits me from becoming a true Champagne Socialist.

    2. Some Beggar
      Facepalm

      Re: It never ceases to amaze me

      "the lefties"?

      You're probably amazed by your own reflection.

  14. Smallbrainfield
    Coat

    Tsk. Shelbyville kids.

    Now if he'd been from Springfield...

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Three Kicks and Its LIFE....

    especially for dimunitive hyper agressive violent thugs....

    even if they are only 6, its the next 84 years they need to take into account....

    Ohhh the Profits the Privatised Prisoin Services are going to make on this one....

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Alert

    The solution is...

    I think it's important that schools teach kids skills they will certainly need later in life....

    like what the inside of a jail looks like.

    I suspect this kid will end up spending a whole lot of time there.

  17. Armando 123

    Bad position

    Parents and educators have been building up to this sort of thing for YEARS. Now that they've put all these restrictions in place, and now that you can't punish kids like this in an effective way, they've painted themselves into a corner.

    We had our kids in a private school then, for various boring reasons, moved and have them in public school. The difference is tremendous, and we moved away from a "gauche blue collar" area to a well-to-do suburb. The boys keep asking why the bothersome kids, who are always causing trouble and bullying, can get away with it. One of our sons got in trouble for hitting BACK. (I think the fact that he used martial arts knowledge worked against him within the system.)

    When you get called out of work to defend your son because he was blindsided by the class bully and had the gall to defend himself, ... It's a sorry world.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Bad position

      "...One of our sons got in trouble for hitting BACK..."

      I come from a family of teachers, my farther was an inner city head. Let me assure you that it is not only proper for someone to be in trouble for hitting back, but also that you clearly don't know the half of that particular situation.

      1. hplasm
        FAIL

        Re: Bad position

        "I come from a family of teachers, my farther(sic) was an inner city head. Let me assure you that we are all scared of the bullies and their families."

        There- fixed up that particular situation for you.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Bad position

          @Hplasm - Oh noes, I accidentally typed two keys next to each other, while trying to knock out a quick comment. I, after all, was at work, so didn't want to take the piss.

          Oh, if we're going to be pedantic, "sic" is more properly contained within [], rather than ().

      2. Decius

        Re: Bad position

        @AC:

        What's the other half of that particular situation? The victim didn't understand the reasons behind the violence directed at him, and didn't know any way to resist the violence except using violence. What was the root cause, and how does the punishment address it?

      3. Mad Mike
        Thumb Down

        Re: Bad position

        @AC.

        That rather depends on the context of the situation. It is absolutely not necessarily wrong for someone to be in trouble for hitting back under certain circumstances. If he was defending himself, did what was necessary and then walked away.........that's fine. if he hit back with retribution in mind when no longer in danger, that is not. The law allows the right to self defence under all circumstances. Your comment suggests children don't have that right. They absolutely do. However, it's about defence, not about retribution.

      4. Intractable Potsherd Silver badge
        Thumb Down

        Re: Bad position

        No-one should ever be taught that self-defence is wrong. It is everyone's right to protect themselves from attack by others using proportionate means, and the more efficient and quick it is, the better. Punishment of those defending themselves just leads to frustration and anger, and a complete undermining of authority.

        Coming from a teaching family, you should know this, but you are clearly part of the problem, which has led to children believing that they have rights (they don't - they are not full moral agents because of their lack of understanding - but they do have interests), and that there is no effective way to ensure that they behave within the bounds of society. Thanks for teaching them that.

  18. Joe Drunk
    Childcatcher

    Defective parents produce defective kids

    A six year-old kid acting that way? Ouch. Here in the US kids like that are classified as E.D. (emotionally disturbed) and get put in special classes with teachers certified in special education. My mon is a retired special ed teacher and tells me most of these kids act out because they are physically/emotionally abused, neglected and come mostly from broken homes. There's always the exception of a spoiled brat who's taught to get their way whenever they act out but mostly it's what happens at home.

    Crappy home life always equals crappy school life for children.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Defective parents produce defective kids

      "Here in the US kids like that are classified as E.D."

      You did see that this /was/ in the US?

    2. Pirate Dave Silver badge
      Pirate

      Re: Defective parents produce defective kids

      A different type of ED six years and nine months earlier might have prevented this entire circus...

  19. NightFox

    Does this suggest a new era of restraint (no pun intended) by US police? Most previous similar stories featured in El Reg would have seen the officer CSing or Tasering the 'juve perp'

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I like the taser idea

    I'll bet $10,000 if the brat gets tased everytime he gets unruly, he will change his ways damn fast. Either that or give him the PC "time out" in his room - for three weeks. If you don't correct bad behavior it just becomes worse. Tolerating this crap from a six year old is unacceptable. Most competent parents would have resolve his attitude issues four years ago.

  21. Stevie

    Bah!

    My suggestion: Six days detention on the school maggot pit.

    1. hplasm
      Happy

      Re: Bah!

      Lucky Barstards! We used to dream of having a school maggot pit...

  22. wowfood

    TV is to blame

    I bet that's going to be what the parents say.

    Problem is by law nobody is allowed to effectively punish kids any more. Many parents are feckless and will give in to any whim of their child for a few minutes peace and quiet. This will include giving in to their temper tantrums, breaking things shouting swearing screaming etc. In the end the parents give up and just use the TV and a games console as a virtual babysitter.

    Then they expect schools to teach discipline. But the schools can't do anything. Wanna know why the principle called the police? Because he cannot legally remove the child by force himself. I agree with that flowers person, calling the police wasn't the best way to deal with the kid, but thanks to all the hippies and left wingnuts its the only option he had which wouldn't result in an inquest which would ruin his career.

    And where does a 6 year old learn to act like that? Attacking adults and threatening to kill schoolmates. Sounds to me like there's probably trouble in the house and it might be an idea to call in child services.

    This is why I always advocate that before a parent has a child, they should legally have to take parenting lessons. They should be taught how to deal with a screaming child, how to punish, how to educate, how to feed and clothe them. Because a lot of young parents these days just don't know how. All they know is they're no longer allowed to spank the child and the only other way to punish them they know of is to shout and threaten.

    Then when the child starts to do the same they say the kid must have picked it up from watching TV with them to avoid the blame.

    Parents need to be taught how to discipline children effectively

    Teachers need to be given powers to discipline unruley children effectively

    They need to stop using TV as a defense for their bad parenting.

    I also advocate the return of corperal punishment. Not in terms of cane for every msitake. But sometimes a clip round the ear is needed.

  23. Stevie

    Bah!

    Well done El Reg! This story works on so many levels.

    I love the fact that the Indychannel (whatever that is) got a comment from a neighbour, aka "someone who isn't a teacher or teacher's assistant in any class with the boy, wasn't present anywhere the incident played out and doesn't actually live with the family so is a natural witness as to the boy's standard of behaviour".

    Then there are the comments from a self-confessed teacher (though not well represented as such by his right hand).

    Voland: More please. I know you said you wouldn't, but there is a growing fan base for your right hand's meandering op-ed pieces. I don't tweet, but if I did I'm almost certain I would be tweeting your praises, perhaps with the vowels stripped out for brevity or something. I'd definitely do something facebookily positive re: Voland, were I in fact in possession of a facebook account.

  24. Keep Refrigerated
    Trollface

    The only thing that surprises me...

    Is that the teacher didn't pull out a 9mm and blow the little tyke away and claim self-defense under Indiana's 'stand your ground' law.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The only thing that surprises me...

      That would certainly eliminate a lot of propblems in this world.

      I'm surprised the kid didn't pull out his 9mm and shoot the teacher - just because he could.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The only thing that surprises me...

        Nah, that would more likely happen here in Atlanta.

        Not that we don't have bigger education problems...

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Call the cops. On the parents

    IMHO the correct answer is:

    1) restrain the child from kicking anybody. This may require a degree of physical contact (grabbing and lifting the child clear of the ground). Ideally a quick swat to the backside with an open hand as well, to deliver the "short, sharp shock" to bring the child back into contact with reality. Then you place the kid in a room with as little to destroy as possible, and don't let them act out.

    2) You call the parents and inform them that they are to pick the kid up and take him home - he is suspended for a week. If the parents give you any guff about "I'm at work and I cannot/will not come get the kid" - you send the police around to their place of employment and have them informed that they are either going to pick the kid up or be picked up themselves for child abandonment.

    3) You tell the parents that until the child can be controlled the child is not allowed to come back to school, AND that the parents are responsible for seeing the child is properly supervised during the day (either one of the parents, or a responsible adult), and that this WILL be checked up on by social services.

    4) You inform the parents that a requirement of the child being allowed back in school is that the parents agree, in legally binding writing, that the school may use needed force to prevent the child from hurting itself or anybody else. NOTE: needed force for a 6 year old is physical restraint by an adults hands, a swat to the backside by an adults hands - NOT tasering, Mace-ing, straps, etc.

    In short, you do that most horrible of things: you make people TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for their actions. The parents have primary responsibility for teaching their feral fonication-fruit how to live in this world we find ourselves in, and if they will NOT do that willingly, society WILL make them.

  26. James Micallef Silver badge
    Joke

    Shelbyville??

    So did the kid...

    - actually come from neighbouring Springfield?

    - have 4 fingers and a strange yellow skin tone?

    - tell teh copper to "eat my shorts"?

  27. E 2
    Thumb Down

    Well...

    Speaking literally the child is a terrorist. An American citizen practicing terrorism inside the USA.

    So we know what should be done with him, by law.

  28. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    Take off and ....

    Nuke the kid from orbit - it's the only way to be sure !

  29. Sam Liddicott

    It's a school...

    It's the schools role to educate the children.

    If they are not ready to be educated, or are disrupting the education of other children who are ready, then they should go back to their parents.

    Some of the posters here seem to think that the schools role is parenting and that there must be "something" that can be done, never mind the cost to those who are there ready to learn.

    School isn't the place to fix all parents failings, although (as a governor) I see sometimes how far they go to try and make up for it in some case.

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Teachers in America are told that the worst thing you can do is put your hands on a student. Unless the student was an immediate danger to him self or to another students a teacher is not allowed to put there hands on a student. In some school districts you are not allowed to yell at the kids. If the teacher laid a hand on a six year old, that teacher would be fired and possibly looking at a trip through the justice system.

    1. Boris S.

      Proof the system is broken

      Unfortunately this is more proof that the system is broken.

      In the days gone by... a catholic school teacher would have tarred and feathered the child and nailed him to a cross - just to make a point.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Proof the system is broken

        >a catholic school teacher would have tarred and feathered the child and nailed him to a cross

        Would that be before or after buggering them?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Proof the system is broken

          BOTH

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Re: Proof the system is broken

          Both.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      That is the way in the western world to day.

      Good or bad I do not know.

      When I went to school, many years ago, there where those teachers who had authority and those without it for reasons I do not know.

      One male teacher, if confronted with a teenager not behaving, would drag the guy to an empty room and beat him up proper until the weeping guy would promise to behave in the future. He would then push the guy back into the rather quiet class room. The poor guy would then try to look brave and unconcerned and fail badly. That teacher never had to prove who is boss again and in some odd manner some sort of an bond between teacher and pupil was established.

      And I do not think any of those pupils ever complained about it at home.

      Then there was a woman teacher who had a secret weapon, she would start crying loudly and the class become very silent and almost chocked. Worked every time.

      Then there where those in between regarding "physical contact".

      Those with that inbuilt authority needed nothing but silence and a glance at the problem.

      My problem is that I do not know if the good old times where better or not.

      What annoys me are those who think that a six year old kids behaviour tells anything about his future or his parents.

      Involving the police is a bit surprising but then again problem solved, for the moment, at least.

  31. Ian Michael Gumby
    IT Angle

    Obviously you've never been to Indiana.

    I was going to make some remarks about the type of folks you'd find in rural Indiana. How their family tree tends to be a straight line, but that would just be wrong on a couple of levels.

    The issue is that the school administrator has an unruly child. If they restrain the child or there is an allegation of any 'inappropriate' touching, true or not, the administrator is toast.

    The best thing the school could do is to call the local police as well as document the child's action.

    Had they not done this... you can bet there would be a lawyer ready to sue someone on behalf of this poor misunderstood child.

    Do you blame the parents? You betcha. Assuming that the child is normal and healthy, then this problem is psychological and can be treated. If the child suffers from HA-ADD then he needs to see a specialist and get the proper meds, (Not sure what they are for someone that young.)

    There are a lot of physiological things that could cause anger and aggression which would mean more therapy and medications. It happens.

    Why we are talking about it? No idea this isn't IT.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Obviously you've never been to Indiana.

      >How their family tree tends to be a straight line

      I think you meant a loop.

  32. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Remember when...

    ... an unruly child in the classroom was brought to heel by the teacher simply saying, "If you don't stop that, I'll have to call your parents." ?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Remember when...

      With working parents, the kids usually retort, "Ha ha! Good luck!"

  33. Allan 1

    Must be a really slow news day. Other news websites reported on this, last week, when it actually happened.

  34. Anonymous Coward
    Facepalm

    Personally

    I'd fine the parents because its clear to me that THEY are to blame.....

    There is a line in Harry Brown: "He's a cunt, she's a cunt, theyv'e bred a cunt"...

  35. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Throw the whole damn family in jail

    If they are this out of control they belong in the slammer.

  36. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    There is on other problem too

    Most teachers are women now, and for some reason male kids have more problems in school than girls and there seems to be no means to alter that. And, of course, it is so wrong to speak about any gender related issues.

  37. Bucky 2
    Headmaster

    Well, obviously something's wrong with the kid, one way or another.

    It's premature--with only this article as information--to make a diagnosis about what the kid's problem is, nor how best to resolve it.

    My IMPRESSION from reading the article that the principal had some experience with children who were prone to violence. My IMPRESSION is that calling the cops was not the principal's first choice of resolutions.

    Since the next step is likely to be expulsion, I find the parent's response--NOT thanking the principal for NOT expelling the child--to be a bit puzzling.

  38. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A new low

    Well, I think link to this and file it with my "new low for register commentards" links.

    Honestly, the people here baying for children to have sense beaten into them, while taking a moral high ground and slagging off teachers as incompetent is utterly disgusting.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: A new low

      The great majority of the commentards here are against physical violence and most are sympathetic to the teachers. Have another read.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: A new low

      I agree. There's nothing worng with the teachers when a kid throws a hissy fit and raises holy Hell. Remove him from the class and get him professional help. The parents probably need some too as the kid isn't likely to have turned into a raving lunatic overnight. This is what tasers were originally designed for.

  39. James O'Shea

    What seems to be unclear

    A lot of people on this thread are writing in ignorance of one simple fact: most American jurisdictions there are special School District police agencies. Here in Palm Beach County the Palm Beach County School District Police is the third largest police force in the county, after the Sheriff''s Office and the West Palm Beach City department. There are _lots_ of school cops in cars hovering near schools from elementary to high. And the school cops are employed by the School District and _do_ have training for dealing with, ahem, 'youthful offenders', and they are the ones who have jurisdiction in schools, not regular police. I don't know which county in Indiana it was, or if that county has a School Police force, but if it did, it would be the school police who were called in.

    1. Intractable Potsherd Silver badge
      WTF?

      Re: What seems to be unclear

      That is one of the scariest things I've read for a long time. Are you seriously saying that the educational establishment needs its own police force? If so, the USA is even more broken than I realised. I was completely thrown when I found out that US universities have their own campus police, but this revelation is really shocking.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @Intractable Potsherd

        You've just reminded me that there is a sort of equivalent position in the UK, namely truancy officers, commonly normal police officers assigned to schools, so maybe you should consider the UK broken too.

      2. James O'Shea

        Re: What seems to be unclear

        The Palm Beach County School District Police isn't just a police force, it's a fairly sizable police force (153 sworn officers, who carry actual firearms, plus a bunch of others who aren't authorised to be armed) and they have jurisdiction over _all_ crime occurring on School District property anywhere in the county. If they run into something they can't handle, they call the Sheriff's Office, which usually sends out the SWATs. Just yesterday two elementary schools in Royal Palm Beach were put on 'lockdown' and searched by the School District Police while the Sheriff's Office blocked roads, 'cause they were looking for two south Florida crackers who put a tow rope around an ATM and yanked it out of the wall using their pickup truck, put the ATM into the truck, and drove away. The truck was found on School District property, so the School Police are the lead agency in the investigation.

        A partial list of the police agencies operating in Palm Beach County, Florida, Land of the Free, includes:

        Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office

        Palm Beach County School District Police

        Florida State Police

        Florida Fish & WIldlife

        Florida Department of Transportation Police

        Federal Bureau of Investigation

        United States Marshals Service

        United States Secret Service

        Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms

        Drug Enforcement Agency

        United States Border Patrol

        United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement (no, the USBP is not part of ICE)

        United States Fish and Wildlife

        I have not listed the various city police agencies, such as the West Palm Beach Police Department, or the West Palm Beach (or the County!) Fire Marshals. And I'm sure that I've missed several Federal agencies and possibly a state agency or two. Also, the US Coast Guard is, officially, a police agency in time of peace. There are coasties all _over_ Florida in general and Palm Beach County in particular. And then there are the various military police agencies on the swarms of Army, Air Force, Navy, and Coast Guard installations around the state, such as the Army National Guard annex right opposite the Sheriff Office's Headquarters on Gun Club Road. (Yes, the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office is headquartered at 3228 Gun Club Road. Be advised that their website is truly bad. Donny Trump's golf course is on the other side of the fence from the Sheriff's Office's main jail. I'm not making this up.)

        I trust that you are now feeling that you are inadequately policed.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Up

      Re: What seems to be unclear

      Thanks James, I didn't know that. It seems like a good idea and is rather telling that in at least one district the school police are the third largest force.

  40. Paul Hovnanian Silver badge

    It's called "scared straight". The consequences of violence, or inappropriately acting out physically will be intervention by the local law enforcement authorities. This time, it may just be a ride to the police station, followed by the parents' picking the kid up and dealing with him at home*. Eventually, its going to be actual legal consequences. Better to let kids see this early.

    *Its also possible that the parents might be a couple of losers. They could either laugh it off or, worse yet, give the kid their own beating. So the cops will get a chance to make contact with the parents at the hand over and assess the possibility of domestic problems.

  41. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Kids eh?

    Glad I don't 'ave any.

  42. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I don't find the actions unreasonable

    If the child was out of control as it is reported then I have no issue with handcuffing him and taking him to police headquarters. Certainly the parents need to be called, child protection services and the school should all be involved in the resolution of this bad situation. I see no wrong in what the school or police did.

  43. Mooseman Silver badge

    People are getting silly with definitions of "violence".

    Raising children isn't easy, as any parent out there knows - but responding to a child's bad behaviour with any kind of physical force is lazy parenting. If you look at 99% of badly behaved children in schools the problem clearly comes from the parents who can't be bothered to spend time with their offspring, preferring instead the twin remedies of tv and a smacking. You CAN train a dog with violence...but you end up with an aggressive dog

    1. Mad Mike

      @Mooseman.

      I'm afraid you're wrong, or at least in part. There are many reasons you get violent kids. Sometimes it's violence in the home. Sometimes it's because they weren't violent once, got away with it, got what they wanted and therefore do it again. Maybe no violence in the home. It may be because the parents are basically absent etc.etc.etc. Violence in the home is certainly one reason for violence in kids, but it is far from the only one. In managing the child, it is of course, important to understand why the violence is occuring and any causal links that can be found.

      But, violence begets violence is lazy thinking, just the same as no violence equals well behaved kids. I know of plenty of kids that have never had a finger laid on them at home and are much the worse for it. They know (from their parents point of view at least) there is no final chastisement available and therefore know they can do what they like without repercussions. That is, until they become adult and meet the police and judicial system.

      1. Mooseman Silver badge

        I suppose it's the downside of people all being different - children respond to similar situations in different ways. However, I was trying to make the point that *in general* poor behaviour in children is a direct result of the parents' failures, whether by absence, aggression, etc. There are always exceptions of course; genuine behavioural problems in the child can manifest, without any parental failings, for a number of physiological and psychological reasons.

        1. Mad Mike
          Thumb Up

          @Mooseman.

          I totally agree. There are some kids that have genuine behavioural problems, although I believe fewer than thought, but the vast majority are from bad parenting for a whole raft of reasons, including in some cases, violence. There seems to be an industry at the moment, setup to create 'illnesses' to make out it isn't a parental failing and this in its own right, means that poor parents divorce themselves from responsibility even more.

          1. Boris S.

            Get help for all of them

            Many parents are victims of poor parenting themselves and have no skills at all. With generation after generation of this, we have a really socially challenged society. If the parents are parenting skill challenged and the child does not have some true illness creating the problem, then get help for all of them.

            Violence isn't required though a paddling on the arse now and then proved to be quite reasonable and effective for many generations. IME beating is not productive but it can be satisfying and show the child who's in charge... Shock therapy would be the PC solution now days but it's not employed enough IMO. You'd be surprised how quickly people can change their behavior when influenced by 50,000 volts.

  44. Dropper

    Corporal Punishment? Time Out?

    Some people resort of beating the kid, some decide the best couse of action is talking to them others prefer making them sit in a corner and "think" about what they did. My humble opinion is the first action any parent should take with an unruly toddler is obvious.. restrict their smartphone's internet access. Just don't go too far, because while it might be tempting to pull the 50" LED 3D TV from their bedrooms, limit them to just one of their PS3, X-Box and Wii consoles or even threaten to cancel their World of Warcraft subscription for a week, what you should never do is cause permanent psychological damage by closing a Facebook account or restricting their texting. Some parents are just monsters, I've seen it.. you know there are children out there who well on the way to becoming serial killers by sadistic parents refusal to upgrade two-year old Androids?

  45. Burkhard Kloss

    Surely if teachers can't deal with a six year old, they should be sacked for incompetence in public office?

    1. Mad Mike
      Thumb Up

      @Burkhard Kloss.

      True, but only if you give them the tools. When a teacher can't even lay hands on a child for fear of being sacked and prosecuted, what options do you have. Contrary to popular opinion, it isn't just the lower end of society that has problems either. I've seen a lot of very priviledged children kick and get very violent when someone dares to say no to them. They've been given everything they could ever desire (except probably love) and when someone dares to say no...............all hell brakes loose.

      So, this is not just a problem at the bottom, but throughout society.

  46. Hozer

    Call the Parents?

    Why were the Parents not called?

    Im 44 and when I was 6 the schools would call the parents..and then when Mom or Dad had to leave work to come pick you up, then you were in real Trouble..

    This boy was 6 years old, if a guardian/administrator Educator has to call the Police about a 6 year old and not the Parents, he should not be an administrator.

    If the parents cant deal with a 6 year old, then the school should offer to help with Family therapy.

    Statically Police have the highest rate of family violence, alcoholism, Suicide.

    What could an average Cop have to offer in any Family situation.

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