Report: Nokia, Apple battle over ultra-tiny nano-SIMs Nokia is reportedly fighting the Apple-based proposal for a nano-SIM with designs of its own, aimed at preventing Cupertino scooping the patent fees which come with ratification. Despite repeated enquiries, Nokia has failed to provide any confirmation or denial of the Financial Times's report (behind paywall) that Nokia – …
Apple stated publicly that they won't use FRAND patents in an aggressive way like samsung + motorola are doing. So they'd only use patents for this in retaliation to FRAND abuse - and presumably only if samsung were actually using the patented tech, which as the standard isn't even agreed yet has to be some way into the future.
Besides, the abuse of FRAND patents isn't exactly going well for sammy + motorola. The EU are investigating samsung for anti-trust because of it, motorola must be high on the watch list, and the courts haven't (on the whole) taken it well either. The whole thing might end up being a massive own-goal.
Yes Apple has FRAND patents, and quite a few in fact.
Check the ETSI patent disclosure database.
I really doubt that the limiting size on current SIMs is the microelectronics. Therefore, there *is* a universal method for making SIMs smaller. However, it is the fairly obvious and non-novel one of putting the electronics onto a smaller package.
Even if it *was* the limiting factor when current SIMs were designed, such things *have* (as is generally known in this forum, you must be *really* new to IT) shrunk at a fairly predictable rate over the years and so it would not be the limiting factor now.
Go and troll somewhere else.
Are there really any patents on this?
Weren't the nanoSIMs developed by Giesecke & Devrient?
Why isn't there any information on Nokia's alternative format?
The Verge have this -
" Apple's proposal does not meet all of the pre-agreed requirements for ETSI's planned 4FF standard (the so-called nano SIM). The proposal from Nokia, RIM and Motorola does.
Nokia believes that our proposal has features which would make it easier for consumers to insert and remove the SIM without damage. Additionally, our proposed SIM has different dimensions from a micro SIM, one of ETSI's requirements, which would avoid it getting stuck if inserted by mistake into a phone with a micro SIM slot. Apple's proposed card is the same length as the width of current micro SIMs and so would risk jamming, leading to card and product damage.
We also feel that our proposal allows for more design options for the type of card reader, i.e. how the SIM is inserted into the device, to allow for a wider range of device form factors. Requiring a tray or SIM carrier would reduce design options and increase manufacturing cost, perhaps not significant for high end smartphones but it would be for lower cost devices.
The combination of our proposed card and the associated mechanics are smaller than those for a current micro SIM, allowing further miniaturization in devices. Though Apple's proposed card is smaller than current micro SIMs, when combined with the associated mechanics needed in the phone, we don't believe it represents a significant reduction in size. We believe that in practice it would mean it was just different from micro SIM, rather than smaller, which could be a barrier to broad adoption as an alternative to micro SIM, potentially leading to fragmentation.
In summary, Nokia believes that our proposed nano SIM would be easier for consumers to handle, enable a wider range of device designs and offer a true difference from the existing options with micro SIM. We look forward to continuing the discussions in more detail with our counterparts in ETSI."
Oh that's easy, all your "SIM" details will be live duplicated* on the 100% secure cloud so if your iPhone fails or is stolen or the battery explodes you can copy the details into your new iPhone (service incompatible with other vendors equipment - after all once you've used an iPhone you'll never want anything else)
*Users liable for all data charges when copying data to "Cloud SIM" service.
Getting rid of SIMs would mean that your operator could decide which devices you could use on its network. That would mean that you wouldn't be able to get any useful device since, for example the operators wouldn't allow VPNs or instant messaging. Devices would be reduced to stupid pay-terminals.
SIM-locks are actually an example what happens if you give even the slightest bit of control over to the network operators. Getting rid of the SIM would be like every device having a SIM lock, plus you cannot get any device without it.
>Standards groups are increasingly forums within which companies push the technology they own rather than the best solution to the problem.
"Standards groups have always been forums within which companies push the technology they own rather than the best solution to the problem."
There, I fixed that for you.
Yes you could, though that would need telco's that allow you to switch in a instant. SIM's have a bigger function than just provisioning a phone and allow the user a extra level of choice/flexability akin to having a lock with a physical key, albiet that they leave said key in the lock. When you look at the World picture of mobiles and roaming, then why oh why would anybody give up the option to avoid getting fiscally raped by giving up the easy option of popping in a local PAYG SIM and the ability to pop in there main SIM once they touch back down. How are dual-SIM phones catered for!
so SIMless phones are ok IMHO as long as the phone itself holds 5 virtual SIM's you can pick and choice, then that would be something that no consumer will complain about and actualy be easier and useful without losing that extra functionality of instant choice. For example I could provision one with my work number, one with my personal SIM/number and another with a PAYG SIM I use when in Germany or werever. You start to see how this could be useful if done right, until then I prefer my SIM's as I somehow don't trust the mobile manufacturers to have my best interests at heart over the network operators.
Just because a phone uses a SIM doesn't mean it'll recognize every SIM. Some Tracfones use SIMs but will only recognize Tracfone/Net10 SIMs, so they're useless for transportability. Similarly, Nextel phones used SIMS but of a different physical dimension--it wouldn't recognize any other SIM since Nextel used a different network standard from GSM.
Given that, barring laws already in the books, what's to stop a phone manufacturer from simply making a phone that only recognizes certain brands of SIMs? And in such an environment, what function would a SIM serve that couldn't be served as well with a "soft" SIM where the IMEI or whatever was manually entered or decoded from barcode by the now-ubiquitous camera?
"A physical way to move any phone over to any provider you choose. If this is done in software then most likely you will only be able to switch between whichever operators have come to a deal with the manufacturer of the phone"
And how would software prevent a phone from being moved from one network to another. You assume it has to lock you into one when it doesn't.
The phone could have a database of network providers and you pick one from a list. Or you point the camera at a QC code representing the network data and it sets the network from that.
I realy don't need a smaller SIM form factor and given it's size and the device it's plugged into, I'd say that if they are that desperate for space in a device then they are doing alot of things wrong.
Way it's going then how much longer will it be until you pop small pills into your phone to talk to people!
did anyone else notice the epic FAIL in all this??? they want to make the sim smaller to save space but the smaller sims require a caddy to be used thus making them just as big again as the old sim. Its like my lumia 800 has a "micro sim" but to put it in you have to use a tray thats bigger than an old sim. This is all about winning patents to get lisencing rights and as always Apple will win.
Maybe Apple have something in the pipeline, like a ring or piece of jewellery that holds a tiny SIM. Any phone or tablet you pick up becomes 'yours' for the purpose of making a call or checking email. Your contact list, your billing info.
Such a product would give them a use for that 'liquid metal' they hold the exclusive rights to!
Mate of mine at Nokia wrote a few, he got about £300 a pop. (year 1998)
I came up with one, and the boss told me to patent it. When I looked at all the horrendous paperwork, (which I'd have to do in my spare time (go figure!), it simply wasn't worth the effort.
It was a 'blocking patent' - to prevent other manufacturers from using it. £300 for a few weekend's work, with no guarantee of success? Fuc*k that, I'm taking the missus to Cyprus for a couple of weeks.
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