IT guy answers daughter's Facebook rant by shooting her laptop An angry American IT pro has responded to a rude Facebook post from his daughter by riddling her laptop with a fusillade of bullets and posting video of the shooting on YouTube. Here it is, with the incensed dad leading in by reading out the offending Facebook post and offering a few points in response before emptying his . …
Outstanding, indeed. Very few journalists could have concluded such an article with a couple of paragraphs discussing the finer points of what sort of bullet to use when shredding a laptop. El Reg's strength in depth really shines through here.
Oh yeah, and the dad did a good job too.
It was worth the "couple of paragraphs" because "exploding bullets" would generally raise eyebrows. I found the idea of using exploding bullets more engrossing than anything else in the story.
For one thing, in the video they did not appear to explode.
For another thing, they are banned by international law - last time I looked anyway.
@Nuke
"For one thing, in the video they did not appear to explode.
For another thing, they are banned by international law - last time I looked anyway."
Actually exploding bullets are only banned in warfare under the Hague Convention of 1899.
Police, hunters, and irate fathers still get to use them.
True exploding bullets are classed as destructive devices as far as I know, and are difficult to own if you're a private citizen, but not banned by international law.
I read an article awhile back about ammunition being evaluated by air marshals. They had an explosive charge not to inflict additional damage but to insure the slug fragmented against the wall of the airplane instead of punching through. Now that I think of it, I have a vague memory that this is what President Reagan was shot with back in 1981.
This is the problem with leaving gun discussions to people that refuse to know anything about guns. It's like having Apple users design electronics. If you are willfully ignorant, perhaps you should just STFU. I don't have a clue. You don't even want one.
One important characteristic of hollow point rounds is that they don't ricochet.
That whole "exploding bullet" thing ensures that you don't have stray rounds flying off and hitting something or someone that was not intended.
Some might view the lack of stray bullets bouncing around as a safety feature.
Yep. Having also now read Tommy Jordans Facebook page, I can fully understand his actions. I'm not sure if shooting her lap top is going to have the desired affect, but it makes a lot of sense. The 'entitlement generation' need to learn actions have consequences.
Roll on the 51st State, and the adoption of the 2nd Amendment.
I can't tell if you're kidding.
Lessee, she learned that the things that parents give her over and above what's strictly necessary as a parent can be taken away at any time. She learned that if she flames someone in a public forum, she shouldn't be surprised if they return in kind. And she learned that if she wants her own laptop, she can buy one.
And finally, she learned that dissing your sysadmin is probably a bad idea.
Valuable lessons which will help her in the real world.
You obviously don't have children. Nor does any of you morons who think this is a great reply. If you think you teach a child how to behave by using a gun then you I suggest you should not have children. I don't know where to start, people suggesting what ammo to use? If anyone of you even remotly think that a child raised in this manner will have a relatoinship with their parents worth having after moving away from home then you are not real.
Guess I'll run off and get a paternity test on my two offsprings now.
The gun makes it dramatic, yes. But that's not the point, especially not if, as seems very likely from the video, the kid wasn't there to see the "execution". Focusing on the gun is for idiots, i.e., you. What gives you the right to tell us whether we should have children or not?
The point is that sometimes you have to draw a line in the sand. That doesn't _always_ mean discussing and reasoning with the kids, unlike what you'll see on Oprah. Sometimes you can reason, sometimes you have to get their attention. Sometimes you have to be a parent.
To date, I've thrown two $18.99 PS3 games of my 8 yr old son's in the thrash. Not a $700 laptop, but same principle. He had plenty of warnings, but ignored them. Amazing how it resets his behavior. Fear not, he still gets plenty of hugs at other times. My daughter's tally? 3 used Archie comics, once, 5 yrs ago.
Nuke the laptop? Heck, yes, but I would have given it away to the Salvation Army or somesuch.
Bottom line: go and sing Kumbaya with your kids if that's your thing.
There's a huge difference between the lesson "You have no property rights and if you don't submit to me your toys will be thrown away" and "You have no property rights and if you don't submit to and respect me at all times I will use firearms to reinforce my authority".
I disagree with you on the 'minors have no property rights' portion of the discussion, but acknowledge that a reasonable person can disagree with me on that issue. I disagree strongly on the point that '"I will use firearms to reinforce my authority" is an acceptable part of parenting', and I claim that no person who believes "using firearms in anger and acceptable parenting are compatible" is reasonable.
".....I think this displays admirably why some people should not be allowed to own weapons....." I suspect you actually don't want anyone to own a firearm. He's shooting his own property (he paid for the laptop, not his daughter), and on his land, in a manner unlikley to cause injury or damage to anyone else (other than his daughter's overblown ego), and in an area where that kind of action is quite legal. TBH, with the littlest of respect, you can go take a running jump.
Whilst I would suggest NOT shooting it on the ground (a round could ricochet off a stone and hit the shooter or some other unintended target), and I'd probably advise against shooting it so close incase a ricochet or fragments came off one of the more solid components (like the battery or hard-drive), I'd say it's an otherwise entertaining display of shooting, and a lot more fitting than the usual shooting at cans, bottles or roadsigns. Personally, I'd just have sold her laptop and kept the cash.
I sincerely hope you are not a parent or plan to be. If you think this instils discipline by being a childish asshole and shooting her laptop then then I worry for you - I really do. I also sincerely hope that you are not in charge of any firearms either. Its assholes like this that end up using a firearm in a situation were it is not warranted and before you know it is on the six a clock news for blowing some poor sod away.
For your information, no, I am not anti-gun - I am just anti dickhead owning a weapon.
It was a DV4/6, possibly a late model DV6000. The thing would have died in a few months anyways from the NB desoldering itself from the MB. Anyways, no worries about shrapnel, the plastics on those models are pretty soft and there was WAY too much down force for anything to blast back up.
I truly hope the "Little American Princess" has learned her lesson and stopped following the ways of the dark Ladies (Paris, Kim, etc...).
She should thank God everyday that he didn't pop one of those rounds into her ass.
What difference does it make that he used a gun? If he had used a hammer, would that be a reason for some people not owning hammers? What if he had sold it on eBay? What if he had confiscated it and stored it in a safe?
If you think what he did was wrong (and I'm haven't made my mind up) - surely that is more of a reason why some people should not be allowed to 'own' children.
...after the daughter calls the cops to tell them how Dad has touched her in the NO! places. She'll be off of restriction LONG before he get's out of prison. By the time he does get out, he will have learned that in the long run it would have been FAR cheaper to have bought her a Corvette, to go along with that laptop and let her boyfriend sleep over and drink up all the beer in the house.
Ole Dad, you will most likely be served in the near future. A 15 year old girl will hurt you ...BAD! :)
She better be able to prove it because it will be her that will be in a world of pain if caught out for lying about something serious like that.
I know women think it's acceptable to lie about rape or molesting but it's not and they deserve everything that happens to them when they're caught out.
Looks like an HP Pavilion. If it is, the HDDs (I say HDDs since it looks like a 17", and my 17" Pavilion came with one, but a bay with a drive (and, arrrrrrgh, no cage for the 2nd drive which I could have used, but probably HP left it out so that the ease of installing a 2nd HDD would not suck down the battery life...)and a spare bay. Looks like he missed the HDDs.
Then again, he may have removed them just to have a working disk in case he later had a change of heart or wanted to repurpose the disk. They're still pricey these days unless you buy a new laptop with one already installed.
I'm a former pistol marksman, both at civvy club level and British Army level (was on my Companys Shooting team in the T.A. for a while), and at the range his was shooting, it was about average. I'd say maybe 4" at what, five feet range at most? I'd have been more impressed if he'd achieved that grouping at 25 yards. Never the less, it was a rather spectacular way of making his point :-)
Firearms-savvy folks can skip this next bit :-)
For the non-gun-minded, hollow-point rounds are lead, wrapped in a copper 'jacket', that are designed to expand to over 150-200% of their original width on impact with a target - they are also illegal under the various international laws of war (Hague and Geneva Conventions), like 'dum-dum' (an earlier form of expanding round) and exploding munitions; under British laws, exploding rounds are illegal under the various Firearms laws and regulations.
Me, first, I'd mount her drive in another machine, boot up to knoppix or some such, and dd her drive off. A kid playing that sort of games is rarely so sophisicated/paranoid as to encrypt the drive -- encryption would be more of a reason for suspicion than anything else, and in that case, with time and CPU, all problems can be solved.
Anyway, after that, I'd run DBAN on her drive, and then while she's feverishly trying to rebuild her laptop and recover the conversations/whatever she had, I'd be doing a little analysis of my own to figure out what secrets she has that she wanted to hide from me. Depending on the content, I might be making a phone call to a certain young man, where all's he gets is an anonymous caller ID, and the unmistakeable sound of a round being jacked into the chamber of a shotgun. Nothing else. Just that sound. Let his paranoia do the relationship ending.
As the girl in the OP found out, it isn't wise to piss off a BOFH. Not wise at all. Even un-wiser to do it to a BOFH that possesses firearms and a subtle sense of humour.
In case any of you shrinking violets out there think I'm a baddie for this, well, yes, you're right. I'm my kids' parent, not their friend, and I never have problems with that role, nor with abusing my powers as BOFH in furtherance of protecting my kids from themselves. However, before you fire off your sternly worded letters to the editor, you might want to consider that the main reason a kid in this situation would want to hide stuff is more often than not being in an abusive relationship, where they are *told* not to tell anyone. This is where the knowledge of what is going on that they don't know I have comes in so very handy.
Sir, I take my hat off to you.
If my kids are getting into something they shouldn't, I will gladly scare them out of their wits, rather than let them come to harm. I would rather they learn that I'm going protect them - and in the process be looking over their shoulder - than give them the illusion of freedom and let them ruin their own lives. Children - and this includes teenagers - are notoriously bad at making decisions. That's what parents are for. And yes, that means I'm going to invade my children's privacy, never let them have any fun, and refuse to allow them to do things on the basis that everyone else it. Because that's my job.
Also, my first thought was "He should have dd'd that drive, first; now the evidence is gone!"
"You know if you have physical access to a linux laptop you can reset the root password and log in right?"
Not if the machine is set up to prevent that you don't. Encrypting the disk is hardly difficult and short of access to a supercomputer and endless time you ain't getting in without the password.
Sadly (at work) can't hear audio till I get home, but boy, does this strike a chord ! This could be my son ! Apparently it's his "right" to go on the internet "when I like".
Er, no son. You go on *my* internet when I say you can. And sorry all DHCP assigned address from the wireless router (that's you *and* your mates) only work 3pm-10pm.
1. Snooper? Yes. Until you're no longer a minor and move out of the house.
2. Lack of Trust? Second offense. Parental trust violated in a big way.
3. Bad Temper? More like the kid is the one with the temper. Father has the right to be outraged by unacceptable child behavior. If more parents did things like this, less kids would be screwing up. They'd be too scared to screw up and that is a good thing.
4. Gun nut? No. Made a valid point in a way that prevents any back talk.
5. Bad hat? Great hat. Don't like the hat? BOOM!!! Like it now?
LOL!!!!
When I was a kid, I got my ass kicked for back talk and i tightened up and learned to do the right thing. Today's kids are too full of mouth, themselves, and their bad attitude celebrity heroes. Parents don't put foot to ass enough. A 12 gauge to that laptop would've been better, but a 45 got the job done. If she's not stupid, she's shut her mouth, say "yes sir", and "yes mam" to her parents, do what she's told, perform her chores, and get her butt out of the trouble it's in. If she's an idiot or brain dead, she'll continue to be a useless screw up, which if she does after seeing this, is proof that she's brain dead.
Cheers to the Dad. I'll like to shake that man's hand.
I'd imagine the USA. It's what their kids are expected to say when in the smelly stuff.
In addition, I've yet to meet an American who didn't call me "Sir" - and I drive a London bus, for crying out loud. They view it, I think, as showing a level of respect to the person that they are addressing. We in the UK have differing ways of addressing / responding to other people, but that's a completely different topic *huge and evil grin*
1. Snooper
Knowing what your teenage offspring are up to is called parenting.
2. Lack of trust
Trusting that your teenage offspring are up to what they say there are is called bad parenting.
3. Bad temper
Reacting in a calm manner is hardly 'bad temper' You might notice that it is over seven minutes into the video before the gun is actually fired.
4. Gun nut.
Owning a gun does not necessarily make the owner a bad parent. Gun laws in the US may arguably be less than sensible, but this doesn't, per se, make anyone who owns a gun a nut.
5. Bad hats
I fail to see the connection between choice of clothing and parenting skill. Please enlighten me.
"Gun laws in the US may arguably be less than sensible, but this doesn't, per se, make anyone who owns a gun a nut."
No, but shooting a laptop does.
And using a lethal weapon to express annoyance with a family member does.
And posting your ill-judged demonstration on Facebook for the world to see does.
It sounds like the daughter thoroughly deserved to lose her laptop, but from this side of the Atlantic the father's response says "Redneck".
If you mis-hammer, it won't travel a mile in the wrong direction and potentially kill someone?
That said, you don't have to be pro-guns or a member of the NRA to like his style and see his point. I'd hazard a guess that where he's from, gun culture is a lot more 'relaxed' per-se, and the message he's sending has more focus on his point, and less focus on "OMG HE'S GOT A F***ING GUN!"
I guess that's harder to get here in the UK, thus the many disagreeing posts, and the reactionary thumbs-downs they have received...
> No, but shooting a laptop does.
> And using a lethal weapon to express annoyance with a family member does.
Anything that is capable of physically destroying a laptop is capable of being a lethal weapon.
> And posting your ill-judged demonstration on Facebook for the world to see does.
The daughter chose the medium. She chose to publish on Facebook and the parent responded on the same medium.
"The daughter chose the medium. She chose to publish on Facebook and the parent responded on the same medium."
I thought the base for the widespread approval of his actions on this board was that he showed who is the boss to her daughter.
But, you are right, it turns out that she actually is the one making decisions in that house...
Once word of his novel approach to dealing with problems becomes common knowledge, I'd be surprised if anybody would issue a bug report against any of his software, in case he applies his special remedy for "fixing" their IT problems.
It would be interesting to see his staff appraisals, too. I can imagine a somewhat shakily (hand)written assessment along the lines of " ... some scope for improving customer-facing skills"
Although it pained me a little to see that freshly installed laptop at the wrong end of a .45, the guy does get extra points for his highly targeted parenting skills (and the grouping wasn't bad either).
Nope, I think all parents can learn something from this guy.
Surely this can't be real?!?! Surely not!
I know it's is hilarious and it has brightened up my Friday, but if I was a 15 year old kid, I'd be shitting myself if my Dad got so angry at me for an FB post that he'd shoot up a laptop!
What's he gonna do when she comes home with an 18yo boyfriend :o
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Oops! Looks like you forgot to read the news before preforming your perjudices:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1440764.stm
You may also want to know that Germany has a lower number of guncrimes per head of population than the UK, despite having less stringent gun laws. Then again, you've probably spent a long time avoiding any such truths.
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I stand by my point. Gun and violent crime have remained constant in the UK. Gun crime only increased 40% in the 2 years following the gun ban if you consider arrests for possessing a previously legal weapon. Aside from those, there has been no statistically significant change since 1997.
Actually I was wrong in my above posts, but not in the way you believe. Firearms offences have actually decreased.
I found some more up to date and comprehensive statistics. From 2005/6 to 2010/11 it would appear that firearm offences in England and Wales have decreased from 11,088 to 7,024. If you include airguns which most official statisticss include by default, the decrease is from 24,094 in 2003/4 to 11,227 in 2010/11
see http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research-statistics/research-statistics/crime-research/hosb0212/ (pdf warning)
The right to bear arms is enshrined in the US constitution to protect the freedom of the people.
I accept that the Dep't of Homeland Security is eroding that freedom rather too much, but over-ambitious rulers are kept in check by the thought of an armed populace.
Why do you think our ruling elite here in the UK are so vehemently opposed to any kind of arming of the electorate?
Concern for our well-being? - If so, it would be the first time ever!
To save us from ourselves? - see comment above!
To ensure that armed bad guys can't hurt us? - ask any cop involved in Trident how effective that is.
To prevent a serious rising by a pissed-off electorate? - getting warmer!
See, the gun laws were enacted when government oppressors would have been using guns as well. The guns won't protect you against government oppression now; they have microwave weapons, tanks, rocket launchers, B52s for carpet bombing...... your 45 magnum is going to feel VERY inadequate...
Looks like he hit his target just fine, so I'd say he had perfectly good gun control.
I think it was way overreacting, though, and it'll be completely ineffective unless he also homeschools her and imprisons her in the house - because this could easily be the catalyst for running away, and now any adult friends that she may have know to hide her from her parents.
His kids, his rules!
Looking at the number of parents who are allowing their kids to go running round rioting and causing real public disturbance its nice to see a parent taking the job seriously!
My parents would have have killed it with fire as we are in the UK and didn't have guns but had an open fireplace, and rightly so, disrespecting ones parents publicly in like this deserves a severe reaction, mainly because my parents (and clearly this guy felt the same) would like to think they had bought me up better than that!!
....... they must be the obnoxious little shits popped out by liberals, you know the kind, when you are anywhere public and the brat is throwing the almightiest of strops all the parent does is say 'Tarquin, we have discussed this before and you know these actions create friction which will not aid in the resolution of your current displeasure of not being able to fill the trolley with sweets'
From what he stated in the video he had punished her previously for similar actions and said if carried out again the punishment would be worse. Judging by the daughters post it seems she doesn't have any respect already. As for getting it by force? Not so, he was merely being inventive in the way he carried out the punishment. I come from one of the last generations where punishment was a fair few hard whacks on the arse from my dad (now that was punishment applied with force), and I have nothing but the upmost respect for him.
"From what he stated in the video he had punished her previously for similar actions and said if carried out again the punishment would be worse."
So instead of, for example, blocking access to Facebook on her laptop (he works in IT right?) he decided to go for the violent, destructive, solution.
.... that you have no understanding of IT, because you think just blocking shit works so well. Never heard of web proxies? Tor? For feck sake even GoTo on a friends pc would easily pass any local blocks. Maybe it is because he works in IT that he knew blocking would be useless.
.... I really don't understand if I would be replying to the same person or many different AC's, how can I tell? Whilst sitting there with an AC tag and Guy Fawkes mask are you that concerned for your anonimity that you can't use a handle as a name to post?
Me? I have a handle so all the other lovely reg posters can look at my history and really see how batshit loco I am.
Back to your point, the comparison was in regards to the effectivness of cutting communications access. It didn't bloody work.
No, he has a 15 year old and knows he'll won't have her respect for a good few years yet. It's not about respect, at least, not yet it isn't. It's a learning experience, and a valuable one.
What he wants is for her to understand that actions have consequences, even on the "consequence free" internet (where people can and do say anything they feel so much as a momentary impulse to share) and that the consequence of bad-mouthing her parents in a public forum can be quite bad for someone who is living on charity.
I doubt he expects this to stop her internet usage - after all most libraries have internet connected terminals these days - but it has put a serious crimp in her style in front of her friends.
Most of the crybaby posters here clearly have never actually raised a mardy-arsed teen and think they are just "small adults".
And as for the deadly weapon usage, note how far back from anywhere this took place. Note that the laptop was positioned so the possibility of live ordinance going on to damage something else in the neighbourhood were so minimal as to be negligible (hollow point rounds would be fragments by the time they got through shredding the chassis - those tiny holes aren't what is killing this machine - and any that made it out the other side would simply end up in the soil).
Lastly, kids understand force when they don't understand the ethics of reasonable behaviour. No-one has been physically harmed here.
Wait until winter, wehn it;s really cold. Cut a block of ice from the nearest river/pond. Place the laptop on the block of ice. Place the thermite on the laptop. Retire to a safe distance and light electronically (or use a magnesium ribbon fuse and run fast).
If anyone isn't aware of the interesting reaction between thermite and ice, google the Mythbusters episode involved...
An excellent and practical suggestion sir, with just two minor problems:
First, it doesn't get that cold in Winter, to judge by the pictures. My first hint was the shirtsleeve motif of the video.
Second He probably hasn't got any thermite to hand, but demonstrably does have a .45 automatic.
He is possibly working like slave, if you actually listen to what he says, he had a nightmare as a teen, working and studying in 2 schools and a charity.
Spend 16 years for a person who wants to act like an imaginary Britney (since Britney too worked like a slave too) and right after upgrading her laptop and possibly buy some high end security software to save it from her own idiotic usage scheme, read what she has written about you, her parents to get thumbs up.
The part he is really mad is the daughter referring a poor worker without a name, 'cleaning lady'.
Another thing people seems to miss is he refers to his wife and says she told him to fire one for her too. So, this is really controlled violence against an object, decided by parents.
I know very rich, highly educated, elite people who would force their son, daughter to some luxury asylum middle of nowhere for a lot less, for months. Of course, as they don't have that accent or a gun, it is acceptable.
Basically I'm with the guy... I did notice however she's got a stepmother. Now I'm not saying that's necessarily part of the problem - but she's obviously from a so called "broken home". Sometimes that has an impact (bit like a hollow point :-)) on a kid.
Sure there'll be (lots of) examples of kids from ex marriages where everyone is happy enough with the situation - and she may well be one.
"I did notice however she's got a stepmother. Now I'm not saying that's necessarily part of the problem - but she's obviously from a so called "broken home"."
You might also notice that she is in her Father's custody, not her mother's. Usually in a divorce case, the mother gets custody. So you might then conclude that her mother died and her father remarried instead, so no 'broken home' syndrome.
Either way, she chose to be rude about her parents. Not uncommon: A lot of kids feel slighted when they are made to help around the house. It's part of growing up to learn that thing called 'responsibility'. It is up to the parents to teach the kids that. Otherwise the kid will grow up thinking they are owed stuff just because they are alive. So hats off to the father for making a rather graphic point about property ownership and consequences of continued rudeness. Hopefully she now learns and becomes a better person for it. Hopefully he remembers to reward her if and when her attitude improves.
Why not use a hammer?
a) Because it would take forever. The gun causes the real damage where it's wanted - inside - instantly.
2) Because it is less effort. My shoulder would be raging at me for days after I hammered a laptop to bits.
%) Because it is more fun and more satisfying, plus, you can put the thing back in the bedroom for the little shit to find without having to go down on hands and knees with a baggie for the bits.
.45ACP is not $1/cartridge. I've bought ammo that was that way, mostly because it was primarily manufactured in countries that no longer exist (and the stuff I bought was American made -- low demand, high quality so high price). You can find it for around $.20/cartridge, even less if you reload your own cartridges.
@David Eddleman
Plus P hollow points are NOT twenty cents a pop. Performance ammo COSTS!
If you want 30-40 year old military surplus, corrosive primer ball ammunition for your gun, feel free. With sin taxes, a decent .45 is upwards of $600. Buying crap ammo is like buying a Porsche and burning crap gas.
$1 per round is in the right ballpark for Premium or Personal Defense ammo in the US these days. See http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=FAP45HS1 for a typical example - $20 for 20 rounds, on sale. Even the "cheap" commercial stuff (CCI Blazer) goes for $16 for 50 rounds on sale, or $0.32 per round, and that's FMJ not hollow point. Sure, military surplus can be had cheaper in bulk, but you aren't going to find any quality ammo, much less hollow point, in that price range. Reloading your own still won't get you much cheaper assuming you use a good hollow point slug - they typically cost $0.20 - $0.25 each, so once you add powder and primers, even assuming the cost of re-used brass is zero you are in the $0.30+ range per round once it is all said and done...
El Reg needs a .45 icon...
Parenting: +100.
Unnecessary use of a lethal weapon when you could have just dropped it into a skip, into a rubbish crusher, into a river, thrown it off the top of the house, stamped on it, hit it with a sledgehammer, etc.: -99
Still, I doubt with modern "yoof" that this will stop her moaning - she'll just be more discrete about it next time and only whinge to her friends that her dad destroyed her laptop too, and she'll "bloody get away from them when I get the chance", etc.
At 16, my oldest would regularly spout that to anyone who would listen. Now that he is attending university, he seems happy that he doesn't have to pay for food, rent, etc. and is willing to live by my rules as a condition. Firm, consistent discipline FTW.
It's called "Mom".
Enough motherly badgering, and he'll move out just for peace of mind. It also helps him to remain single for a few years to save money, while he enjoys the peace and quiet.
Sometimes I have to stir her up a bit "Aren't you worried that he won't get a nice girlfriend?" or some such.
When the boy's gone, I'll have to get her a puppy or something -- I don't need that kind of attention focused on me. ;-)
Just to mention to Volodya and others -- pleasing to see that other parents care about their kids enough to be parents. Very reassuring.
..AAAAAAWWWEEsome! You Americans sure know how to party. I can't think of a better way of dealing with Facebook. The "entitled generation" of Facebook-posting idiots are in for one hell of a shock once they enter the real world--that is, if their parents actually manage to kick their lazy asses out of the family nest once they turn 25.
(Although I will say that a far easier solution would be to just turn the damned internet off. The little brat would be having withdrawal convulsions before the sun set.)
This has to be the bestest reason to ever own a gun in America. Sadly in the UK we only have power drills.
Excellent edicational leason there, and for a IT professional that sure had to be might rewarding on sooo many levels.
Only aspect not covered is the BOFH angle and that would be that he obtained a broken verbaitum model and shot that one up having the working laptop hidden away that he could then sell to his daughter later on.
Get pneumatic nail gun, and nail it to the wall in her bedroom.
Reminds me of that one home improvement show, where they gave the Brit carpenter a yank nailgun that shoots 16d nails. At first, he was all about those pussy yanks that couldn't pound nails. Then he pulled the trigger, the light came on in his eyes, and I could see that they'd created a nail-shooting monster.
So, a stressed-out teen writes a rant they don't want their parents to read as a way to cope with the stress without having to actually do anything that upsets anyone, but their parents find it anyway and humiliate the child to assert their authority.
Happens all the time. Worst case scenario the girl pisses off with the first guy who'll let her earn her keep in bed instead of in the kitchen.
"....They pose such a threat....." Whilst most UK urbanites view the grey squirrel as some sort of charming reminder of wildlife, others consider them pests, even here in the UK (http://www.pestforce.co.uk/squirrel-control.html). In the US, they also refer to ground squirrels (gophers) as just squirrels, and they are considered a major damager of crops (http://westernfarmpress.com/management/control-destructive-ground-squirrels-demands-high-kill-ratio). Whilst in the UK it is unusual to shoot squirrels, we do shoot plenty of other creatures most clueless urbanites (such as yourself) would view as harmless, such as pigeons. And if it escaped your notice, here in the UK we have badger culling schemes, much to the horror of unknowledgeable urbanites.
yup, he went over the top, but he has definitely proven his point by doing so. He's also probably helped a few more parents of her friends by scaring the crap out of their kids too. Sometimes talking will just not do and a "short sharp shock" is needed. Imagine how embarassed she is going to be until college (assuming she is the average sociable teen).
And be honest, haven't you always wanted to do that to an errant piece of kit?
@Charles Parker I see you are another man who can't tell genitalia from weapons. This must limit your romantic scenarios considerably.
I always love when small minded, timid people make the "gun = Phallus" comparison, more than a few of us American Gun owners don't have a phallus at all. "Or in my case, want one in any form"
So leave off the tired psudeo Freud, and confine your sexual insecurities to a less public forum.
Try designing a working handgun in the shape of a vagina. Harder than it looks isn't it?
There's a good reason for this: often, things look the way they do because they have to, otherwise they could not function at all. The gun is a classic example of form following function. Ditto for skyscrapers, which look like that because it's a very efficient use of valuable land.
At the other end of the spectrum, you have people who look, talk and act almost exactly like dicks. [Source: the Internet.]
Yrs.,
Me.
This is so not a waste. He destroyed something valuable to make a point dramatically. He was saying "I would rather destroy this thing rather than tolerate you using it to disobey me". And I dare say is she learns the lesson, he will consider it a bargain at $150 or whatever.
Selling it on eBay wouldn't have worked. In your post, you're judging the laptop only by its material worth and in my opinion that misses the point.
You can't respect through force, but you can get compliance.
I'll settle for compliance!
For all the folks banging on about the use of lethal force - nothing living was killed, therefore the force was not lethal QED.
In that respect, if the guy had run it over with his truck (he must own a 'truck') then that too should be classed as using lethal force.
Was she a whiny, self-centred kid - of course. Teenagers are SUPPOSED to behave like this. It's what allows them to vent their frustrations, and to test the boundaries of what is acceptable.
Responding in this manner, or reading something his daughter said, is a massive over-reaction.
Is she more or less likely to trust him with information like 'I think i might be in trouble and need help' when she really needs support, or is she going to think 'my father is a douche who can't be trusted to react rationally to things he may disagree with'
US gun-toting parenting fail!
"Teenagers are SUPPOSED to behave like this."
No they are not. "Teenagers" are a new phenomenon, basically only really existing since after WWII, when they started to get more time and money to do what they wanted. (and predominantly in Western cultures). Prior to that, they had to learn to get down to doing a job from an earlier age, in order to help the family, and usually did so without any tantrums.
We have bred a couple of generations of people that think the world owes them a living, that they can do what they want, when they want, without worrying about consequences.
""Teenagers" are a new phenomenon, basically only really existing since after WWII, when they started to get more time and money to do what they wanted. (and predominantly in Western cultures). Prior to that, they had to learn to get down to doing a job from an earlier age, in order to help the family, and usually did so without any tantrums."
And for the opposite argument:
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers. "
Socrates
DavCrav, which work of Socrates was this quote extracted from?
(My guess is that decades ago, someone made something up and attributed it to Socrates — much like the alleged quote by Cicero on balancing budgets, over a millennium before double-line accounting reached Italy — but if that “children are now tyrants” quote has genuine Socratic provenance, I’d be delighted to learn what its source is.)
@Irony deficient - you beat me to it, but thank you.
@DevCrav - you also make my point - no where in your "quote" extract does it refer to "teenagers". I could however point you to a number of sources that refer to bad behaviour amongst college / university students, pupils at public schools, apprentices etc. if that would help.
It is not a direct quotation, in fact (not least because it is in English...). The original was a summary by Kenneth John Freeman in 1907 for a Cambridge dissertation, describing Socrates's viewpoint and various texts he did write (although the wording has been changed a little over the years). On the same page here:
http://www.archive.org/stream/schoolsofhellasa008878mbp#page/n105/mode/2up/search/indictment
the author remarks that a similar change came over children in the late-nineteenth century.
DavCrav, thanks for the link to Schools of Hellas. As you noted, Plato would have been a more plausible candidate for such a quote than Socrates, given that Socrates was sentenced to his hemlock draught on being found guilty of corrupting youth.
I had forgotten about Xenophon blaming non-Spartan Greek parents for pampering their boys by giving them shoes, changes of clothing, and full stomachs. “Back in Laconia when I were lad, we ’ad it tough …”
It doesn't have provenance, it's a fabrication. Repeated so often that many people use it believing the attribution, but still not Socrates.
The closest anyone can come to attribution is badly mangling a quote from Aristophanes' play The Clouds, which contains a character named Socrates. Even then it's only by removing context, generous ellipses, and contemporary rewording. Also, The Clouds was the ancient equivalent of a Wayans movie, and it's not even Socrates speaking.
"Very well, I will tell you what was the old education, when I used to teach justice with so much success and when modesty was held in veneration. Firstly, it was required of a child, that it should not utter a word. In the street, when they went to the music-school, all the youths of the same district marched lightly clad and ranged in good order, even when the snow was falling in great flakes. At the master's house they had to stand with their legs apart and they were taught to sing either, "Pallas, the Terrible, who overturneth cities," or "A noise resounded from afar" in the solemn tones of the ancient harmony. If anyone indulged in buffoonery or lent his voice any of the soft inflexions, like those which to-day the disciples of Phrynis take so much pains to form, he was treated as an enemy of the Muses and belaboured with blows. In the wrestling school they would sit with outstretched legs and without display of any indecency to the curious. When they rose, they would smooth over the sand, so as to leave no trace to excite obscene thoughts. Never was a child rubbed with oil below the belt; the rest of their bodies thus retained its fresh bloom and down, like a velvety peach. They were not to be seen approaching a lover and themselves rousing his passion by soft modulation of the voice and lustful gaze. At table, they would not have dared, before those older than themselves, to have taken a radish, an aniseed or a leaf of parsley, and much less eat fish or thrushes or cross their legs."
Arthur 1, this scene from The Clouds was the first thing that popped into my head when I read the quote. If I remember correctly, two personified arguments are having a debate here; the “right” argument is speaking above, with the Athenian equivalent of rose-tinted glasses, about how things used to be back in the good old days. The “wrong” argument, of course, was that espoused by Socrates in his school — which only added to my amusement at the alleged source of the quote.
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As I said here in another post, once kids could be physically disciplined with the strap. Moreover, then schools and parents regularly agreed on the same course of action.
In just a couple of generations, do-gooders and the misguided have put an end to that.
Kids and teenagers need effective discipline and all too often simply reasoning with them just doesn't work (whereas traditional discipline usually does). Of course, this undisciplined approach won't change until the country's gone down the gurgler and we see that those countries who've properly trained and disciplined their kids have shot ahead.
BTW, never let it be said that I'm advocating sadistic level of punishment, far from it. Unfortunately, in the past, there were sadists and others whose punishment was excessive. It was these bastards who allowed the do-gooder brigade to get their toes through the door.
No, no they aren't!
Venting frustrations, fine! Testing boundaries also fine!
Having already tested said boundaries and received a warning and punishment for boundaries being crossed, her dad dished out further harsher punishment, also fine in most reasonable parents book!
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, fool me a third time and I will take a bunch of hollow points to your laptop!
I'd never use my .45 for that!
I'd use my AK-47! A thirty round magazine and all you would have at the end is a mound of glass and plastic chips!
As a northern Liberal, I generally fear Texans, But GO TEXAS DAD! Apologies if not actually Texan, but my respect for anyone south of the Waffle House/Ihop line went up several notches from this.
@David D. Hagood Truth be told, I prefer handguns. It was a Christmas present from an ex-tenant.
Lots of gun owning Democrats these days. Its just sensible, times being what they are. "And I was a Republican long ago" So I know far too much about the new conservatism's attitude to "people like me" I need to make sure my partner and I are safe and free.
I plan to die old and in bed, preferably eating ice cream.
Gee give the girl a break, she sounds like she is rebelling a little and making life hard for her parents - but hey that's normal for a teenager isn't it ?
She obviously cannot talk with her parents so she is blowing off some steam with her friends, its sounds like most of it is half tongue in cheek anyway and he takes it so seriously.
Here is how I see it - She mouthed off about he parents to her friends (in private she thought).
Let's put that in context She did not -
stay out all night
get pregnant
do drugs
get drunk
run away
or anything else that a parent really has to worry about, although if he carries on like that some of these are starting to look more likely..
The father spied on her without her knowledge and without giving her the benefit to explain herself he takes her laptop and shoots it to pieces. What sort of an example is that -
1. He is acting an impulse revenge emotion
2. He is punishing using Extreme violence and I would be frightened what else he has in mind with that big gun of his.
3. He is going behind her back to her firiends
IMHO he has totally broken trust with his daughter and I cannot see how that can be built again.
Who is behaving worse here ? it is pretty clear to me this is a terrible reaction with very bad consequences for their relationship
Fundamentally - if you don't do anything until your kid :
stays out all night
gets pregnant
does drugs
gets drunk
runs away
then you have left it way, way too late. If you deal with the small things consistently and reasonably then you should rarely if ever have to face the big stuff.
Also,
1. "He is acting an impulse revenge emotion" - no he isn't. He carefully considered his response, took the time to set up a camera and think about exactly what he wanted to say and do. Not impulsive at all.
2. "He is punishing using Extreme violence and I would be frightened what else he has in mind with that big gun of his." - he calmly shot a laptop after explaining exactly why he was doing it. There was not even the slightest suggestion of violence. I can't believe you don't see that.
3. "He is going behind her back to her firiends" - Other people have already dealt with this, he's checking up on her as a responsible parent.
The man is doing his very best to be a good parent. I salute him
I see you haven't tried to defend a single one of the points you made.
"..reading a riot act to the world and dog *except* the child you meant to read it to..."
She made the post on facebook. He replied on facebook. This seems very sensible to me. He obviously feels very strongly about this (he chokes a few times in the video) and a face to face confrontation can easily escalate when both parties have strong feelings or a lot of history. This is why psychologists often recommend writing a letter to a person rather than discussing face to face. So using facebook seems doubly sensible. I think he has shown himself willing to go to great lengths and personal expense to make a valuable point to his daughter. He is most worthy of my respect.
"She made the post on facebook. He replied on facebook."
But he killed her computer and she is grounded - how is she going to watch that video?
"psychologists often recommend writing a letter to a person rather than discussing face to face"
Writing a letter is not the same as ranting to a crowd of strangers on FB or Youtube.
My reading of this whole situation is he feels helpless, having lost control of the situation. He is afraid of talking to his daughter face-to-face for fear of her not complying and him not being able to do anything about it. He is probably under pressure from his new GF to "sort his daughter out" and he can't stand up to the pressure.
Now, what did the girl actually do? Issued a rant to, what she thought was a close circuit of friends? Did she actually refuse to continue to make up her bed or make coffee for them? It appears not. He only found out about her discontent when he logged into her FB account.
I assume that the whole explosion of feelings on her part was because there was no communication with her father in the first place - he appears to think that issuing her a few edicts and leaving a to-do list in the kitchen is sufficient parenting but it is not.
"My reading of this whole situation is he feels helpless, having lost control of the situation."
Perhaps so, but as I've said in other posts to this story, the 'modern' ethos--brought about by the do-gooder brigade--stops parents disciplining their kids in a time-honoured traditional manner. Moreover, empowering kids to report on their parents to authority leaves parents even further disempowered.
It's little wonder parents have to resort to such unorthodox methods to cut through the politically correct minefield that's engulfed the English-speaking world--US, UK, Canada Australia etc.
Society ought to consider such incidents as a wake-up call that modern methods of discipline and training just aren't working and that we're producing a world of spoilt, undisciplined brats who'll have little true resilience during demanding times.
I'm sure she saw the video within a few hours of it being posted - at a friends house, at school, on her phone, a friend's phone... more than one way to look at a video on teh interwebs.
I am aware that facebook isn't the same as a letter... my point about facebook was he's using the same medium she used - meeting her on her own terms, and that by doing it this way he is avoiding a F2F so he can get his point across without confrontation.
I think we read the situation very differently. He doesn't appear helpless in the least to me, and not sure where you've pulled "new GF" from. Could be his wife of many years. I also didn't read anything about him logging onto her FB account - she posted it to her FB wall. I'm not a FB expert by a long shot, but I don't think he needed to log onto her FB account to see that.
"he appears to think that issuing her a few edicts and leaving a to-do list in the kitchen is sufficient parenting..." These are the things mentioned in the video. You are assuming that is the only contact he has with her. To me he clearly cares very much about her upbringing so I am assuming quite the opposite.
I don't think we're going to change each others minds, but your post did make me watch the video again. I stand by what I said - I think the guy is doing his best to be a good parent, trying to shock some sense into his silly daughter.
So rather than publicly scolding the spoiled and bratty adolescent and, say, doing a clean install of Windows and grounding her, he destroys a laptop? Bright lad. Wonder how the family dynamics are working out.
My own thought is that shooting the laptop and posting the video is on one end of a scale that (as one proceeds along the controlling insanity scale) progresses to shooting a family pet and culminates with shooting the disrespectful child.
And I have teenage daughters and own firearms myself, by the way.
and you can be brave here, as long as the person you are badmouthing never finds out.. hence facebook posts addressed to annoying individuals on trains that munch crisps too loud or smell of BO... rather than actually telling them to shut the fuck up/stop munching/having an effin shower :)
Or if you read the metro.. letter addressed to 'the boy in the green sweater' suggesting that a meetup would be nice.. except that he probably doesn't even read the metro.. or if he does, remember that he wore a green sweater at some point.
interpersonal skills, who needs em :P
Actually, for this sort of work, hollow points are better than full metal jacket. A modern laptop is a "soft" target - FMJ will just punch right on through, leaving a small hole. Hollow points will expand, doing more damage to the innards. Better still to use a .22LR pistol, and a LARGE number of rounds (since a brick of .22LR is 500 rounds and is cheap - ca. $30).
Better still - get some iron oxide and powdered aluminum. Thermite for the win.
But sorry daddy - if your little bi... girl has this attitude, it is because to date, you've not been doing a good job educating her. While you are to be commended for attempting to correct it now, you have a hard row to hoe ahead. I'd suggest explaining to her the idea of "emancipated minor", and indicating that if she wishes to not be your "slave" you can arrange that.
Just on the matter of what kind of bullet is best to use for shooting a laptop - I'll stay out of the parenting debate - I'd stand by my assertion that hollowpoints aren't the choice. Even the softest plastic laptop is not a bag of jelly like the unarmoured human body, which is what hollowpoints are optimised for. I'd argue that jacketed rounds would offer better all-round balance between damage and penetration against computers or indeed IT hardware in general. You might well need armour-piercing hardcores to be sure of a quick kill against some tough computers, say a titanium G4: especially using a .45.
As a former EOD type, of course, my personal preference would be for explosives over any type of firearm. It's the only way to be sure.
I'm certain some of our readers have more experience in the field of shooting and/or blowing up computers than me, though. Think of these lads:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/18/shot_server/
Having shot up many a dead computer myself, I speak from experience. Anything larger than .22LR in FMJ will not do as much damage as hollow point. Now, if you are putting down an old CRT, then you need the big stuff - I personally prefer my Lee-Enfield .303 firing 174 grain Spire points.
Of course, you then need to properly police the area and pick up the nasty bits.
It's hard to argue against one who has plainly notched up so many kills against troublesome computers: I bow to your experience, sir, and salute you on the classy choice of the Lee-Enfield - surely the thinking man's choice when up against IT big game. It's good to see that there are some of us left who don't need automatic fire to get the job done.
Even so, I'm worried that you might be falling into the classic expert's trap of focusing too tightly on your own experience and failing to remain adaptable against new, unknown threats. Suppose you have nothing to hand but hollowpoints, or .22s, and then a troublesome kid packing a G4 or a Toughbook or something comes at you? You could wind up having to reload a lot of times and failing to get your point across, that's all I'm saying.
It's just a thought. And for the thermite fans, that's all well and good but for true spectacle calculated to make an impact on a young and impressionable audience I feel a blast-incendiary (small plastic-explosive charge combined with a bottle of petrol, Hollywood style) is hard to beat.
I would continue this, but someone has just told me the pub's open.
".....I feel a blast-incendiary..." Erm, well, there was this discussion between IT bods, after the second Rambo movie came out, as to whether you could actually stick an explosive head on an arrow and actually shoot it any range with accuracy. Sorry, can't even use the excuse of "after a few drinks" either, and we would probably have been too embarassed to include our kids in our min-Mythbusters task. But, after several days of messing around with pliers, a nail, shotgun shells (for the primer-cap and the powder flakes), a juice mini-can and a crossbow and several bolts, we managed a 50 metre shot at an old TV with quite impressive results. Unfortunately, this was in the days before Youtube, and we didn't really have as good a reason for our silliness to be recorded, but I can guarantee it would have reduced a laptop to fragments.
And for all the anti-gunner ragers here, that was rural Devon, where perfectly legal and also lethal crossbows and compound bows were quite common and could be bought, without a license, on the highstreet.
If you really want drama that'll impress and which is less fraught with ideology than one in which guns feature, then just run over the laptop with a forklift.
The results can be quite spectacular, especially if one takes some care to place the laptop on a slightly uneven surface (uneven surfaces will not only see the device squashed to smithereens but also the unevenness will often cause it to tear apart part into many pieces).
Same happens with hard disk drives. (I'm reliably informed this is a very quick way of discarding unwanted information when the taxman is knocking at the factory door.)
>;-)
Isn't hollow point bullets those kind that create small holes going in, NOT SO SMALL holes going out?. I wonder, some "exit wound" indeed.
That stupid kid was lucky he didn't pop the bullets on her ass. Never mess with your redneck dad. Never vent off about your parents in writing, or near a webcam.
What if the laptop suddenly went completely FUBAR for some puzzling reason?
Gee honey - you tell me your laptop isn't working? Maybe you need to rebuild it. You go ahead and get started, and I'll help if you have questions.
Sounds the same as households like mine (generations ago) where the television would mysteriously quit working. Parents played it dumb, until something important was on, and then - hey presto - the TV started working again. This worked brilliantly until us kids worked out how to fix the TV ourselves. I guess that backfired, didn't it (grin)
So many good quotes from this guy in the video. Was smiling as he read that letter she had written. Personally I kinda like his way of punishment in this case. There is no reason to disrespect your parents seeing as they are the ones who support you from birth to when you get out and then some. Anyway Im going to go into work and watch this again :)
"I wish I had a .45..." Whilst there's much debate out there as to whether the Colt Forty-Five is better than old 9 Milly Pee, I actually prefer shooting smaller calibre handguns for long periods of target shooting. Feel free to call me a wimp, and the .45 is fun, but after a few mags of recoil your wrist will ache even if you're Rambo. Well, I did prefer shooting smaller calibres, until our kneejerk politicians banned handguns in the UK, even for competitive shooting.
This guy just wasted a shitload of money and time and was just childish eye-for-an-eye bullshit. Facebook is like a diary for some people, just like I'm sure it was for this girl. Of course teenagers are going to complain about chores, that's what they do! They're disrespectful little assholes, and you should keep this in mind before you have any. I don't see how her behavior is any worse than when I used to complain about my parents to my friends in school. It's normal teenage behavior and it doesn't lead to worse behavior, it's just a kids way of rebelling, and it should be allowed somewhat because they need an outlet for all those stupid emotions hormones are responsible for. Seriously teens have underdeveloped brains, sometimes I think these people don't realize that all children are just high functioning retards. He can destroy her crap (and yes, HP's are indeed crap) all he likes, she'll just find other, albeit more dubious ways of acting out. Like drugs, or sex with strangers, except now he won't have any way of knowing what she's up to because he destroyed his one major tool for keeping tabs on her. What a moron. Also, he's probably a horrible technician since he purchased an HP dv-series laptop, those things are lemons, always do your research before buying a laptop, it's common IT sense. Fucking luser.
"They're disrespectful little assholes, and you should keep this in mind before you have any. I don't see how her behavior is any worse than when I used to complain about my parents to my friends in school. It's normal teenage behavior and it doesn't lead to worse behavior, it's just a kids way of rebelling."
So no discipline in your world then?
Today, you can't discipline kids by belting them anymore, so what options are left?
When I was a kid and being truly obnoxious, I--along with many others of my generation--was well disciplined into shape with the rubber vacuum cleaner power cord doubled over.
By Jesus, it stung like buggery, but hell it was effective!
"Seriously teens have underdeveloped brains, sometimes I think these people don't realize that all children are just high functioning retards."
Very true! It's why teenagers shouldn't be allowed to join the military--it's a double whammy, they can't fully comprehend the ramifications of doing so and the bravado of youth convinces many they're Rambo (then often they don't learn otherwise until it's too late).
Nevertheless, it's also the reason why physical punishment works and has done so effectively over past centuries. Even young brains have little difficulty understanding and quickly learning that deliberately going against parental/school authority may result in considerable physical pain (and such learning is doubly reinforced when both schools and parents agree on the same course of action, as they once used to do).
I went to normal state government public schools in Australia which I very much enjoyed attending.
The difference between home and school was that at home the power cord was the preferred punishment of choice whereas at school it was a rattan-type cane.
What many do-gooder opponents of school caning have little appreciation of is that in a well run school where caning is allowed, the cane is rarely used--simply because there's little necessity to use it rather than through a deliberate restraint on its use. Thus, the cane is a punishment of last resort, and by far its most positive and lasting aspect is that of a supremely good deterrent.
To be an effective deterrent, the cane must be administered in front of the class or assembled school to a kid who, in the eyes of all, has clearly and obviously done something very wrong. It should never be given for some trivial misdemeanour, as kids will lose respect for the system. Whether it's two, three or six of the best, it must only be administrated by the headmaster or a head teacher and given with sufficient--but not cruel--force so as to cause pain and to ensure the watching student body winces in unison with each stroke. (From early childhood onward, we always understood the cane as the ultimate punishment for bad behaviour.)
Throughout my schooling I was administered the cane three times and only in primary school, this perhaps was a whisker more than average. One of these occasions it was punishment for something that I'd not done after another kid had lied about an incident. This was a salient lesson about dishonesty, trust and to the lengths some will go to avoid punishment--an indelible lesson which I've never forgotten.
In all my years in secondary school I recall the headmaster administering the cane only once in public and reputedly only twice in the privacy of his office--by secondary school most of us had been knocked properly into shape and we pretty well knew the basic rules of social acceptability.
Me, I'm delighted to hear you escaped learning the hard way [no pun], as I don't think children should be buggered for disciplinary or any other reasons.
It was an innocent joke, really ~ the phrase tickles me to think it's used only by those without much actual experience of buggery or who, probably more often, are blissfully unaware of the word's literal meaning.
Cage-rats to the face, though, I suppose there's an argument for that. But not *too* many ~ just six of the best!
Anyway, you had it easy, in my day naughty spool-children were bound in cellophane then had crocodile-clips attached to their ears and were hoisted up on a little gallows with an electric winch at the front of the class, before being PUMMELED by all the bullies in turn using the school rabbit stuffed in a stocking, as the teacher looked on and clapped ecstatically, often for hours until a confession of guilt was extracted. On one particularly hard-boiled character, Injun Jim, they had to expend 3 rabbits before he broke.
The invaluable lesson for the spectators was that, if the sadists and psychopaths amongst us conform to the 'basic rules' they will be provided a 'socially acceptable' [because enforcing the corrupt authority which employs them] outlet for their otherwise anti-social tendencies. Thus are police, judges and soldiers formed and selected in these happy NATO-lands.
In fact, the author of this 'article' is a good example of the product turned out by this filthy system.
Knobchen, every post you make simply adds more and more weight to my conviction that you are a perfect example of the dangers of longterm use of recreational drugs.
".....in these happy NATO-lands." I sometimes come across anarcho-socialists that like to pretend that corporal punishment is a decadent, capitalist and Western trait, often for the sole reason that corporal punishment was banned in Soviet schools in 1917. This supposed superiority of Communism conveniently ignores the fact that corporal punishment was common in Soviet homes, being referred to as "porka", and usually involving the time-honoured strapping with a leather belt. Soviet teachers didn't need to use corporal punishment as schoolkids had a report given to their parents at a regular intervals, and any bad marks would result in a "porka" session. Soviet parents, however, could be investigated and jailed for not controlling their children.
"It was an innocent joke, really ~"
Of course I know it was*. Nevertheless, it was a good intro for me to set the record straight as I perceive it.
* Being the opinionated bastard that I am, I expect to be ignored or down-voted, it's no big deal.
"The invaluable lesson for the spectators was that, if the sadists and psychopaths amongst us conform to the 'basic rules' they will be provided a 'socially acceptable' etc..."
There's some truth there but there's exceptions. I'll reiterate what I've said which is there's no way kids [anyone] should be sadistically or brutally punished, by a teacher or whoever. However, justified harsh punishment for a miscreant kid is another matter altogether (I've already outlined its extent as I experienced it).
What do-gooders fail to realise is most kids are far more hardy and resilient physiologically and psychologically than we give them credit for and we're most likely doing them a disservice by keeping them from the 'school of hard knocks'. I'll illustrate with examples:
On the Library of Congress (LOC) web site there are over 5000 photos in the National Child Labor Committee collection taken mainly between 1908-14 by the remarkable photographer and sociologist Lewis Wickes Hine. These photos were ultimately responsible for changing the horrible Dickensian-like child labor laws in the US.
What's truly remarkable and which many have commented about is that despite the horrific work conditions that rightly wouldn't be tolerated today, that almost universally these little kids are not only remarkably well adjusted but they've also incredibly resilient--a resilience you certainly won't find as widely spread in today's kids (as they've not had to develop it).
Look yourself:
http://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/nclc/ (main)
http://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/nclc/item/ncl2004001388/PP/
http://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/nclc/item/ncl2004001394/PP/
http://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/nclc/item/ncl2004000870/PP/
http://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/nclc/item/ncl2004000458/PP/
http://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/nclc/item/ncl2004000129/PP/
'Tis remarkable how kids have metamorphosed into delicate little darlings in just on a century. Isn't it?
I didn't say truly bad kids shouldn't be disciplined, I just think people should destroy expensive inanimate objects in order to teach a lesson. Especially our beloved computrons. And you can indeed physically punish your kids. As long as it's for disciplinary reasons and not out of anger. Yelling and trowing objects at your child is abuse, but informing them in a calm manner and then smacking the shit out of their behinds is not abuse.
Stupid Question, but: Do you actually have any teen-aged kids of your own?
'Cos if not, your opinions are all theory with no experimental data to back them up.
I'm upvoting all ammo and calibre related thumbs ups because I have a kid. She's an angel, but her friends contain quite a few examples of Snottius Princessus Whinifferia, none of whom have any reason to complain about life.
So you endorse physical abuse of kids as you think it works
Newsflash, beat a dog to make it comply, it fears and no longer trusts you, ergo why in CIVILISED countries physical abuse of animals is increasingly being frowned upon and criminally pursued.
Also why in the nordic countries (who funnily enough have less crime and less juvenile delinquency) physical beatings of children are illegal as are spankings and your favourite perversion hitting with a vacuum cleaner hose.
As far as I can see your just another keyboard warrior who like his own halfwit parents gets off (perhaps thats your fetish - pederastic physical abuse of minors?) on beating on those smaller than him aka a bully albeit one with sexual deviancy issues.
Most of the morons and criminals I know beat their kids, and were beaten themselves, most of those who stayed out of trouble don't beat their kids and funnily enough weren't beaten by their parents...funny that eh?
Soldiers are awarded medals (Congressional Medal of Honor, Victoria Cross etc.) for outstanding bravery.
He's inspirational. He deserves a civilian equivalent medal for brazenly and single-handedly declaring war on BRAT-LAND and bravely going up and over headlong in no-man's land to confront the enemy.
Let's hope it's not awarded to him posthumously.
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I've possessed and safely used firearms and he isn't safe, he has no idea how many rounds he has left, is firing at something that could ricochet and hit him, the house or the traffic within sight, is clearly acting on impulse and majorly over-reacting.
I wouldn't let this guy on a range and sure as hell wouldn't let him have a firearms permit as he looks to be a loose cannon waiting to go off. If he reaches for a firearm over this, what is going to do if the boss lets him go? The new wife wants a divorce? Someone cuts him up in traffic?
Oh and for all those who "greatly respect their daddy who beat and molested them" 2 words "Stockholm Syndrome"
You would get arrested and charged for beating on someone in the street, yet its ok to beat on a child, some big tough men and women you all must be...*shakes head* Make you proud does it to use physical violence on some half or even a quarter of your size, weight and strength?
Shit parenting 101 showing right through there.
"I've possessed and safely used firearms"—bully for you; I haven't—"and he isn't safe." Says a random stranger on the internet.
"He has no idea how many rounds he has left,"—And...? He's not claiming to be a professional soldier, is he?
"is firing at something that could ricochet and hit him,"—no, he's very clearly firing at a static target made of plastic, resting on soft ground, using hollow point rounds which are designed to fragment upon impact, not bounce around like a cheap special effect in a Star Wars movie!
"the house or the traffic within sight"—the road is a long way away and you are assuming the father didn't make sure there was nobody else in the vicinity! The guy works in IT, for f*ck's sake! A basic grasp of logic is pretty much a given.
", is clearly acting on impulse and majorly over-reacting."
Planning a video shoot, grabbing the video camera from wherever it's stored, setting it up and positioning it carefully so that he's perfectly framed in the shot, then reading out the offending Facebook post, pointing out the lies in it one by one, and then proceeding to show the consequences of the girl's actions by shooting at a laptop that has not been simply dropped casually on the doorstep or, indeed, any other part of his home, nor in any other potentially dangerous location—all this is entirely "impulsive"?!
I don't think that word means what you appear to think it means.
Yes, it was a bit extreme, but by all accounts, his daughter had already been warned about this kind of behaviour in the past.
far away?
Don't give me that crap, its way closer than a mile and anything much above a .22 will carry over a mile without difficulty. Ricochet unlikely, but all it takes is a slip or a trip.
IT & logic, a definite given? pfffftt Seen and worked with many in IT who don't have a clue about the basic use of logic or common sense.
Also what is his role? delivering computers? programming computers? support? cleaning computers? selling computers?
Many laptops have a metal frame, metal bounces when it hits metal. Ever hit a metal hammer on a metal plate? (hint - thats what dead blow hammers are for)
You truly are a gun fearing moron. Metal bounces when it hits metal? But lead? Lead wraps around anything it doesn't destroy. It distorts, bends, tears apart, spreads out, and keeps going until it delivers almost all its energy, at which point it might bounce back if the target is flat enough and hard enough. The real risky thing to shoot is a flat shot (near 180°) at a rock or road surface. Both of which will deflect the bullet before it delivers all of its energy. Thick angled steel plates are used at ranges to put the bullet in the water tank below.
In all my years of target shooting, I had the interesting experience to be hit by one ricochet. I had been out shooting steel targets, and I hit one just right so that it bounced back and hit me softly in the chest and fell in my pocket. Google "steel targets."
Laptops are cheap ass plastic and circuit boards. Even the aluminum frame isn't strong enough to not rip in half when a 185grain lead hollowpoint meets it at 900-1000 ft/second and wraps around it. Do the math on the force. Now go away.
"....I had the interesting experience to be hit by one ricochet...." So, you were shooting at a purpose-designed target, on a range, what's known as a nice and controlled environment where the variables are all known. Shooting objects like electrical appliances is a different matter, you have a lot harder time predicting how things will work out. And bullets do fragment, even soft lead ones, and this guy was using "explosive" ones designed to fragment. I had a mate back from Iraq who had two bullet fragments (from a ricochet, probably from standard FMJ AK-47 round, so bigger and faster than your example) removed from his leg a week after he left Iraq - they were so small he hadn't realised he'd been carrying them around, embedded just under his skin, for over a month. If they had hit an area like an eye it would be a different story.
Just how unpredictable fragementation can be in uncontrolled situations is illustrated by the episode where the Mythbusters team are debunking movie myths, including shooting locks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kxpS9sHayU). Check out how much protection - big perspex screens, etc - they use. They had to do so to satisfy their insurance company. Just remember, it's better to be safe than sorry. Never assume a bullet is going to behave they way you think it will.
Sorry dude. The AK-47 uses a much lighter bullet than the .45. MythBusters shooting padlocks and oak mounted deadbolts is a poor comparison, and I certainly would stand behind a barrier to do the same...as did the camera crews, catering, participant actors, and the curious bystanders. When it comes to punching holes in extruded plastic, bits of copper wire, circuit boards, lithium battery, and stamped aluminum? There is no unpredictable nature as to the outcome when one of the heavier pistol rounds slaps into a laptop.
I am glad your mate is ok. Splintering is not uncommon, but it doesn't fly backwards at the shooter. If it was from an AK-47, then my assertion seems to hold now doesn't it? The splinters in question sheared off when the jacketed round skipped off the ground, popped off a building, punched through a sheet metal panel, or who knows. In any case they were aiming at him or his buddies. Someone was shooting at him and missed. Thank goodness.
"....Shit parenting 101...." Actually, Mike, I'm going to have to say that - IMHO - your posts are a much better example of the results of slack parenting. I particularly like the way you leap to pat conclusions and stereotypes - how do you know which way he votes just because he wears a stetson? For all you know he could be the most active local Democrat voter. Last time I checked the whole of states like Texas didn't vote uniformly Republican, indeed the Dem vote was at 43.7% in the 2008 Prez elections. I would suggest you take a look in the mirror and then take some time to work through your petty prejudices, which I can only surmise to be a result of your parents' failings.
Matt Bryant
Actually I was reffering to the comments left by others not by the fathers comments.
Also to the mods, good to see a post can be deleted solely because certain people get offended at being told that physically assaulting and in many cases battering a minor is described as abuse. Also referred to "god botherers" as I have noticed that the majority of those who defend physical punishment of children also quote the bible in their defence.
Seems not only have the commentators come from the Daily Mail / Fox News but also that the moderators at El Reg have done so also, picking one side over another.
Or is it you are just afraid of offending your advertisers/american contacts/business associates?
"....good to see a post can be deleted solely because certain people get offended at being told that physically assaulting and in many cases battering a minor is described as abuse....." Nope, you specifically linked child-abuse with being a "god-botherer", i.e. Christian, which is an obviously unproven statement and promotes religious hatred. I'm not surprised your post was deleted. Just imagine if you'd posted that black people were all child-abusers just because they are black, would you be surprised if your post was (rightly) removed then? I'm not religious, but I don't automatically assume anyone of any religion is a mindless drone, I try to judge them on their actions rather than what I'm told to think about them.
".....Seems not only have the commentators come from the Daily Mail / Fox News...." Whine, whine, whine. Once again, more stereotypes unthinkingly trolled out.
"....Or is it you are just afraid of offending your advertisers/american contacts/business associates?" Ooh, so I must have a sinister, alterior motive for laughing at your prejudices? Why can't it be that I actually have plenty of experience of both the Southern States and Americans in general, and whilst some are "bible-thumpers" in the extreme, to attempt to classify anyone South of Pensylvania as being nothig but "god-botherers" and "child-abusers" is just silly.
I'd suggest you get a clue, but I fear the stereotypes and prejudices have been so ingrained as to make any chance of that unlikely.
Maybe you aren't familiar with the 1911A1 .45 magazine.
First - the standard magazine holds 7 rounds
Second - after market magazines with a shorter follower and different spring will allow 8 rounds, assuming one does not want to find a magazine that extends beyond the handle
Third - In the "Heat of the moment" he may have forgotten he had already chambered a round and topped off the magazine.
He might normally keep an 8 round magazine loaded with 7 rounds to reduce the wear on the springs. He intended to empty the .45 into his target - he did so until his slide locked back. The entire time his firearm was aimed in the direction of his intended action. Where is the problem with that?
The rest of your comments - I'd have to say you haven't a clue what you are speaking about with regards to gun safety, the man's temper, or the result of his punishment. A laptop is not a human. He knew that, you apparently don't
As Zaphod Beeblebrox would say, 10 out of 10 for style, minus several million for good thinking. What he did in the video looks like a real good way to get a fragment of plastic or bullet in the face or arm. Too close!
There is certainly nothing wrong with taking away the kid's laptop if she's determined to be an ass on facebook after being warned. Hopefully he also took permanent charge of the facebook account, and will be regularly updating it with embarassing stuff (time to break out the baby pictures) until her friends get the idea that she doesn't live there anymore.
On the other hand, destroying the laptop is sort of over-the-top though - it would have been a classy move to donate it to her school instead. We all know the ancient crap that passes for computers in most schools.
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We just downgraded our smart phones to "basic" phones and cut our monthly bill in half. We are so happy now that that data crap is all gone and we can just make voice and text contacts and receive same. No more pathetic apps and all that's associated with childish fascinations.
I have a special load all ready for our now defunct smart phones: 220 Swift 40 grain at 4,200 fps clocked. I figure 300 yards on the long range will be a "sporting" shot.
Yeah, yeah...target's up codependent sheeple ... lock and load.
It's interesting following it somewhere else http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/319370 .
It brings out that she has repeatedly been warned/grounded and that there would be more consequences if this didn't stop. It also talks about his refusal to speak to the media about it, for which I give him much respect. In todays age so many people would be all over the press to get their moment of fame. No, it sounds like he had a point to make to her and her friends, he made it, and thats the end of it. I most like the comments that they discussed it together after, and all the reactions its been getting. Maybe it's made her think a little more about the shadow/image she has been casting making those sorts of comments publically about those she is closest too.
Whilst I can't say I am comfortable with the whole shooting thing, I wonder how much of that is cultural and to him/his family firearms are more common place and so are considered a "tool" rather than a figure of violence as most of us brits would see them. Whether this was the right action to take, or an over reaction (personally I think it was a perfect case of the punishment fitting the crime making it public) I can however unreservedly applaud his decision to take some time and then as calmly as any parent can go "here are the consequences" rather than getting in a screaming shouting match with said teen with lots of slamming of doors, slaps and angry harsh words said. That never helps anything and really does lead to resentment.
Whilst I like your post, it is illuminating in that you highlight the cultural differences without considering that maybe our UK culture has it wrong. "....I wonder how much of that is cultural and to him/his family firearms are more common place and so are considered a "tool" rather than a figure of violence as most of us brits would see them....." Well, I'm English, and I view firearms as tools. The violence is conducted by the tool-user, not the tool. It is a telling factor of UK culture that many think of the weapon as the problem, having been indoctrined with that "guns are evil" mantra, probably by someone with no experience of firearms.
Something that the naysayers don't seem to have considered, is that for all they know this laptop might have been running Vista.
BTW, regarding "deadly weapons" - he could have put it in the bath tub and that would still have been a potentially deadly weapon (only takes an inch and a half).
We're only hearing one side of this. The father seems to be an overly controlling, manipulative person who isn't giving his daughter a little slack and realizing that everyone needs to vent every now and then when dealing with someone who lacks good, patient judgement.
His attitude made her complain about the chores more than actually having to do them. He pushed and caused a divide in the family. That does not excuse his daughter's actions but to resolve such a problem you have to start with the cause not the reaction.
The father is a good example of someone who shouldn't own guns. It is not rational to use a weapon against an inanimate object nor to go to great effort to express what could have been stated with a few words and lines of text in under 20 seconds. If this fellow can't deal with mere text he does not like, especially after having been in IT and exposed to all the trolls and idiots on the internet, how stable is he really? Stable enough he should have access to weapons?
No. Anyone quick to judge and act is exactly the type of person who shouldn't have weapons for the sake of everyone around them.
The daughter is only 15 yo, not even old enough to legally have a job in some states, and she is a full time student. She did not chose to have the obligation to provide for a child, that was her parents choice. This is another case of parents butting into their children's lives too much.
I bet if the father's own father had the same level of access to what he was doing when he was 15 yo and thought his father wasn't there, he'd have found his father to also disapprove. I can say the same about myself, today when I am around typical 15 yo kids I disapprove of a lot that they think, but I realize it's a stage kids go through. Trying to "fix the world" by imposing different standards upon your own child only causes more rebellion.
".....It is not rational to use a weapon against an inanimate object...." What? Surely it is better to be using them against inanimate objects rather than animate ones!?!?!? In over thirty years of shooting, I have very rarely shot anything other than inanimate objects!
"....Anyone quick to judge and act....." As has been pointed out already in this thread, he took his time over the whole affair, calmly states his reasoning, then carefully carries out the act. The only one that rushed into an act without thinking was you with your post.
You obviously can't see past the "all guns are evil" blinkers.
As flattery-worthy as you are, Matt, I draw the line at 15 year old boys. Unless you're really a Tilda, in which case you'll be getting some flowers on the 14th. Good call about both feet planted in the clouds. But as you're still jailbait, you're gonna have to wait till you're 18 to hear about it. :-)
After the posts hit 352, I finally decided to actually watch the video and <makes sour face> I'm forced to agree with you. I'm sure this just a one time fluke and will never happen again.
Here's a couple of things that we can disagree about. From the location of where the video was shot, I'd say that most of the teenagers living there smoke pot. The 'letter' she wrote, IMO, was obviously written stoned for the amusement of her friends. (That's why they call it dope) I know because I have done similar dumb things stoned hundreds of times.
If everything else in the video were the same, except the Dad split the laptop with the large ax, destroying it like his 45 did, much of the objection to his behavior wouldn't have been commented on. And there would not have been more than 120 posts.
Please resume your verbal abuse. :-)
The really fun bit is look at the number of posts on this subject!!!! So many people rushing to bash their keyboards over the whole parenting thing, and I'm sure you're not the first one that didn't actually watch the whole vid through before venting, from both ends of the polemic. Not much of an IT angle, but a good choice of article by The Reg team.
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For those of you hippies who are against disciplining children, have you actually seen how bad kids are these days? Children need rules and structure and without them, they get into all sorts of trouble.
The other half of you people, don't get too happy yet. You want to be tough to your children? You want to shout and beat your children like a rabid ape? Who are you trying to impress by kicking the crap out of a 6 year old child? Most of your excuse is that "this is how you were brought up". Just because your parents didn't love you (or at least didn't know how to) and beat your ass for hours every time they had a bad day doesn't mean you get to do the same to your children.
Back to this video... the man's daughter obviously has problems, but the way he handled things isn't the smartest. What is his goal exactly? He seemed more interested in expressing his anger and frustration than helping his daughter become a better person. I say this man and his daughter deserve each other.
First I must say the shooting on the ground at close range did make me wince, it is not the safest IMHO.
I am honestly undecided over all this, I do agree with him and his argument but the shooting of the laptop just seems weak. Fine she looses her laptop and such, but in my mind it would be of more benefit to just lock the sucker down.
The man is an it tech, granted he does not go into detail on his skills. With enough time and patience I am sure he could lock the access down to restrict her from facebook etc etc ect. If he was really genius then modify the host file, point the fb page at a local system, phish her passwords and anytime she posts, have a update to her fb page saying "my parents are amazing". You can teach a lesson without mass destruction, and a little evil thinking. Besides why destroy a laptop you paid for?
At the very worst re purpose the thing to say a digital picture frame, then she can see it every day, know it works but not be able to use it.
The guy is twisted, met this kind of farther many time in my job as a social worker. It makes me sick that most of you condone this barbaric and primitive form of parenting, ruling through fear, reasoning though anger. Threatening into submission, grounding, its easy to win a one horse race, he makes for a dreadful parent. There are ways to bring up children so they don't hate you and rebel, feel the things this disillusioned poor girl put in her letter. The bloke has failed from the start, this is why she is in the state of mind she is in. The irony is sickening. She just needs someone to show her some love, putting software on her laptop, buying a few things, is not love and affection and understanding and wisdom. He represents just another extreme of parenting, another corner of failure, another reason why we have shit people in the world due to so much dreadful parenting. The fact that the majority of losers thumbs up the guy, confirmed the world is doomed.
".....my job as a social worker...." Whilst I would say many social workers do good worker without little reward, I would have to point out that you and your fellow social workers are neither perfect nor always right, as a quick Yahoogle of "social worker jailed" will show.
If you look at the article here http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/319370, you will see that the father's actions actually initiated a dialogue with his daughter. This is actually good parenting::)
Here's an excerpt if you are too busy condemning someone without all the facts.
"We had our discussion about it after she returned home from school. We set the ground rules for her punishment, and then I let her read some of the comments on Facebook with me at my computer. At first it was upsetting. Then as we read it became less so, eventually funny to both of us. At the end, she was amazed that other people had such amazingly strong reactions."
You are a dumb arse.
If you had watched the video you would see that the area is a best rural fringe and if you had bothered to check Tommy's FB page you would see that the local cops have been round more than once based on complaints and have found no issue, in fact some of the community officers want a copy of the video to show in schools.
Left wing, anti-gun bullshit of the first order.
This isn't TV show, it's a real life.
Somewhere out there is a teenage girl, being just the way all teenagers are - and for a reason. She's got to survive as an adult, be a parent to her own children. She's got to be able to stand on her own two feet when her parents are dead and buried. Unfortunately for this poor girl, she has a father who is trying to break her in like a horse, trying to get her to submit to his will. This is, and always has been, the worst kind of father. Quick to anger, quick to teach his children all the most moronic lessons you can learn in life - about false respect (getting others to submit through force) which will win her no sustainable friends or allies in life, about revenge (another downward spiral which ultimately leads to disaster), about aggression and violence being justified because you didn't get your way.
This girl's father is a nasty piece of work. He might love her, but he's a fundamentalist. If she'd been brought up as near to an equal as possible, in reason, able to communicate and exchange ideas with her parents without fear (isn't that the most important thing of all?!?) this wouldn't end up with an alienated daughter leaving home as soon as possible and having as little to do with her parents as possible. The social world is a very, very complex place. There is no *one right way of life*, and no one way of life (as a survival strategy) which suits all environmental/economic/social situations. Every teenager is right to question the status quo, and to find a new way. That's a reflection of the fundamental basis of evolution, and the reason we die - it is the "refresh rate" which allows the population to track changes in its environment. In humans, we learn some basics that were useful to our parents, but in our teenage years, we *must* begin to adapt to a changing world. The fundamentalists may try to stop the world changing, by preventing social change, but they are fools for their efforts.
"....being just the way all teenagers are...." My daughter is definately not that way. Indeed, she is far too smart to post something like that in a public forum where I might see it. But then she is top of her classes, whereas I suspect you were far lower down the curve. You fail with your insistance that the daughter's behavious is normal and acceptable.
"....Quick to anger...." Where? He seems quite calm and controlled to me, and this is her second serious offence.
".....This girl's father is a nasty piece of work...." I suspect this is what you want to see, he seems quite agreeable to myself.
"....but he's a fundamentalist....." Que? Where does he spout any fundamentalist views? You're just making unfounded allegations now, drawn from your own prejudices.
".....If she'd been brought up as near to an equal as possible...." Major fail. You have no idea how she was brought up, just your assumptions
"....The fundamentalists may try to stop the world changing, by preventing social change, but they are fools for their efforts." And that was goodnight from Hippyville. Pleas, go get a clue.
I finished top of my school, have three degrees, and a very happy and successful family, thanks.
As for "calm and controlled" - he was shaking with rage.
"Agreeable" - he destroyed his daughter's laptop with a hand gun. I dread to think what you would see as disagreeable? Would you really like this man as a friend, given that friendships also involve disagreements and argument?
A Fundamentalist means he has a "fundament" from which he cannot be moved - that which does not agree with his world view, from atop his fundament, is to be considered as absolutely wrong. He is clearly fundamentalist.
"Major Fail". I listened to what this man said. His ideas about parenting are quite clear to me, but then, I have had more than my fair share of experience dealing with people like this.
"Pleas" is spelt "Please". As for Hippyville, I get the impression you are one of these hyper polarised types who only sees the world in two colours - perhaps that's why you couldn't recognise your agreeable friend there as a fundamentalist.
All those degrees and none of them were in English, obviously. Fundamentalism has nothing to do with a determined belief in just one point, it directly related to religious beliefs.
"....he was shaking with rage..." Really? How do you know he wasn't just nervous at making the video? He seems controlled - he's not raging or making wildly aggressive gestures, his tone and language are calm and measured. In short, he is in control. It seems none of those three degrees touched on human behaviour either. Were they all in art history or flower arranging?
"....I have had more than my fair share of experience dealing with people like this...." Ah, so you're projecting your own bad experiences onto the situation in hand simply to fit your own prejudices. Maybe you should talk to someone with a degree in psychology about those issues?
His daughter is a child, not an adult. This would explain why she doesn't value money or responsibility yet. She needs to be nurtured and supported in a loving environment during her transition to adulthood. No doubt she will one day look back and realise she was wrong, but she also needs to value the fact that her family tolerated it at the time, despite them making it clear it was unacceptable. This would be a lesson on life - civilised society requires us to understand that we are individuals with different viewpoints but ultimately the same interest to co-exist in synergy.
This oppressive approach to parenting, and the obvious grasping at straws to maintain his superiority complex will not earn him the respect of his daughter, and ultimately will alienate her further.
She will be a figure of ridicule when she goes to college, and a target for bullies. "You're dad's a gun toting apathetic jerk!" comes to mind.
On top of this; he clearly states that he doesn't know if his daughter will see the video. From the other content on his account, he's social media savvy. Is he using the issue with his daughter to bolster hits on Youtube as a PR stunt? That is the act of a truly despicable individual.
There are many other points I'd love to make, but I can't post an essay on here. This man should be a genetic cul-de-sac. End.
It could have been a joke. A nasty one - granted - but the joke would be on the father himself.
I hope so for both involved.
There is no evidence from the video that the laptop was intact. The father repeated himself. If it were me, those repetitions would have been clues to the video watchers that I was joking.
Anyway, it's a reminder that nothing on the Web can be regarded as secret.
All those shots were fired next to a road with houses on it. One twitch away from shooting a driver in the head. Or a girl riding a horse. I thought Americans knew how to handle guns.
Also I wonder if the guy really intended to terminate his father-daughter relationship for good. I bet that's what he's done.
Because in a few years, when she reaches adulthood, she'll probably sue him for all he has, and then some more.
Now, I don't have anything against removing her laptop or even destroying it by any means available, be it a gun, a sledgehammer, water, fire, thermite or throwing it through a window. The part that horrifies me is the PLANNED, RUTHLESS, MASSIVE PUBLIC HUMILIATION to which he just subjected his teenage daughter for, you know, just acting as most teenage daughters do. I'd be more sympathetic if the guy had done this on an impulse, without the time to fully consider the implications of his actions, but the fact is that he made this video, obviously scripted beforehand, and made damn sure it would be seen by everybody in the net. In a few years, we'll probably see this guy trying to justify his actions before a jury and/or make them look like something done in the spur of the moment. Good luck with that!
"Yeah, let's destroy her ego and her social life at the same time. That'll show her!"
Aside from your "ad hominem" attack, is there any other content in your comment? Yes! the Smiley icon!. Congrats, Matt, you are improving.
Now, you should consider including some kind of ARGUMENT in your comment, countering what I wrote in mine, so other readers don't get the impression that you are a brainless c*nt.
".....is there any other content in your comment?...." Sorry that it upsets you, but - given the lack of any thought in your post - I was trying for something that matched the same level iof childish humour. Apologies if it made you rant more.
I have posted plenty of arguments in earlier posts, your posted nothing new and definately nothing that came close to an argument, merely more prejudiced ranting. Please, what is she going to sue him for, and why exactly do you think she would succeed? She is a minor, she is subject to his rules whilst she lives in his house. He has not broken any laws and has not caused her any direct injury or threatened to do so, so you obviously didn't think your idea through. The result is the same whether he used a gun or a hammer, it's just you automatically go with the kneejerk "gun=BAD" rant. As was pointed out by somnabulus in a post at 14.03 GMT, there followed a discussion between the daughter and the dad and they ended up laughing at some of the vitriolic posts (probably yours).
"The result is the same whether he used a gun or a hammer, it's just you automatically go with the kneejerk "gun=BAD" rant."
Poor reading comprehension. I specifically wrote "... I don't have anything against removing her laptop or even destroying it by any means available, be it a gun, a sledgehammer..."
"...given the lack of any thought in your post..."
Well, I'll make things easy for you: My post says that: a) He'll probably have to explain his actions in a courtroom, b) what he did was disproportionately cruel for the offence.
"She is a minor, she is subject to his rules whilst she lives in his house"
That is the ancient Roman approach to parenting - they could rightfully torture or murder (even by crucifixion) their own children for not complying with 'their rules'. FYI this mindset has been considered obsolete -and criminal- since before the end of the Middle Ages.
"Please, what is she going to sue him for, and why exactly do you think she would succeed?"
Extreme Cruelty. And she has very good chances in a civil court.
"As was pointed out by somnabulus in a post at 14.03 GMT, there followed a discussion between the daughter and the dad and they ended up laughing at some of the vitriolic posts"
Yep. Good logic. So instead of removing her laptop or destroying it, and then having that -seemingly long overdue- father-daughter discussion, he took the intermediate step of posting the video in the Nets, for all to see. Genius!
And the digitaljournal.com article is based only on what the father says, the girl hasn't been asked. Suspicious?
"(probably yours)"
Sorry, I don't use Facebook.
Honestly, don't you think Dad was humuliated by her posting? I know I would be if it were my daughter. He taught her a valuable lesson on how not to use social media, at the very least.
PERSONALLY, I think Dad should get a medal and become rich selling motivational videos on teen parenting. His lesson-giving was as flawless as it gets, particulary when you read about the heart to heart he had with his daughter later. I'd like to meet him in person.
"Honestly, don't you think Dad was humuliated by her posting?"
Yes, I think he was. And then he just went postal. The problem here is that the adult acted like another spoiled teenager.
Seriously now, this "my balls are bigger" approach to parenting is more akin to playing Russian roulette than to fixing family issues. 'Fix it or break it' is not a game you play with your loved ones, unless the situation is really really desperate.
If humanity took the 'an eye for an eye' approach we would have wiped each other out by now. If this man is supposedly a father, should he not rise above the comments his daughter has made rather than publically retaliate under the guise of teaching her a lesson?
This man's total lack of emotional intelligence and failure to understand his daughter's inexperience should be treated with positive stimulus rather than nuclear fallout is perhaps symbolic of the ignorant general populous.
Imagine if your significant other resolved to air every dispute on Youtube. Imagine how much better that wouldn't make the situation. It's all very jeremy kyle.
In addition, no one is saying his daughter has any right to complain about doing chores, but it doesn't seem like corporal punishment is a way to motivate someone either.
It is always the parents fault....always....he sounds like a catch...well done Mrs NutJob for landing him....and he's screwed his daughter over in so many ways...as you have all rightly pointed out...guy's a twat...just a shame he's an IT twat too...I hope I never have to work with the cnut :)
...2 people are to blame. Although I'm tempted to side with the daughter. I mean; all she did was criticize her parents. Spoke her opinion. If you feel the need to retaliate by destroying someones property, merely for the things she /said/ then I think something is not right here.
Another thing which I miss out on in this thread.. How did he find out in the first place about the facebook critics of his daughter ?
Is it possible that when doing maintenance on the laptop he also went through his daughters e-mails, internet favorites and the lot? Because I would consider that to be very questionable as well. How convenient that the 'evidence' has been destroyed and its now his word against hers.
Quite frankly; As said in the end I think both are to blame here. She should have spoken out against her parents and settled things right then and there, and he should have known better too because placed within context all she did was spout of about her parents against her friends. Which teenager hasn't done that in his youth? Main difference is facebook.
And finally there's another option we all need to consider; for all we know this is only a marketing scheme to try and get his blogs and articles back in the picture again. It wouldn't be the first time people would use family issues to try and get some more attention (one of the most bizar examples of that (IMO) would be the McMahon family).
The dad found out by accessing the family dog's facebook page. She blocked the family from viewing the rant but the dog wasn't in the family group. He opened the dog's page and saw the rant. This is not his fault... This is purely his daughter's fault. Read the guy's FB page.. Even she agreed the way she handled this was her fault. If fact she even offered up her cell phone since she is now grounded from using it as well.
I agree with the father on terms of the facebook post, but I don't think destroying the hardware was such a wonderful idea....I mean if he wants to invoke fear yes he's done it, but as a practicality and economic thing? tbh he wasted a perfectly good machine, he could've repurposed it into a server or something.
1. Snooper? I hate to break it but the daughter was given a quite clear warning that her father would be looking on her facebook wall....
2. Lack of Trust? I believe personally that there has to be give and take in both the parent-child relationship and the child-parent. Seems pretty good to me how this was handled.
3. Bad Temper? Having parents in the IT business myself, I've seen waaayyy worse than this. This guy is pretty calm and tame. My parents actually caused me physical pain as a result of doing crap. Like in terms of hitting and the belt.
4. Guns should never EVER be used for such a thing. A gun is NOT a toy, a gun is something you treat with utmost respect. I would've simply ran the machine over with a car or manually thrown it onto hard pavement. Much more cost effective solution than wasting those good rounds anyway, if he HAD to make a point, elseif it could've been repurposed.
5. Do like the hat :P
To all kids out there, He wasn't kidding. When you get a job and you're working 10 hours a day. Remember,
You: you give me too much work, I demand extra payment
Parents: Nope. Sorry
30 years later
You: You give me too much work! I DEMAND a raise!
Boss: Turn around and walk towards that door, or HR will escort you out personally.
Yea, talkback gets you on the street begging for your dinner down the line.
"I mean if he wants to invoke fear yes he's done it"
It's not fear he tried to invoke.. it's respect! He told her that if she did something like that again he would do something like shoot the laptop. He followed through with his word. She even agrees.. read his FB page.
He wasn't snooping on his daughter's FB page. She didn't black the family pet from viewing it. The family pet has it's own FB page and the father opened that page because SHE didn't sign out of it.
"Guns should never EVER be used for such a thing. A gun is NOT a toy, a gun is something you treat with utmost respect"
Ever go practice shooting? The guy basically shot at the ground. From the range and angle he was shooting it chances of a bullet ricocheting are practically non-existent. Running the laptop over with a car however risk a blown tire and would make a larger mess. Burning it would have release noxious fumes... His wife also wanted him to shoot it for her as well. BTW.. even the local police didn't have an issue... Read the guy's comments on his FB page.
of the cigarette he was holding? I never noticed him actually taking a drag out of it.
Apart from that, he did seem pretty hurt about what his daughter had written, perhaps a little betrayed as well. most kids that age like to be smart asses. this is going to hurt bad. Posting the video on her Facebook wall is really driving the point home. I only hope his daughter learns from this and that it does more good than harm. And although i do not condone what Hannah did, I also do not condone disciplining your child in front of the whole world.
Back when I was a kid, something like that would have earned me the back of my mothers hand across the face or even my father's belt. Even today as an adult with children of my own, I would never use that kind of language with my mother. If there is one thing that modern pc parenting doesn't teach children it is respect.
On a different note; if he was a real IT guy, he would have removed the HDD, the ram, heck even remove the motherboard before shooting the damn thing. it's what any engineer worth his salt would have done.
Last of all, Epic Fail because he spent $130 on software. Last i checked, Ubuntu was free. what software would a 15year old require that costs that much?
Possibly some school infested by "donated" Microsoft software& servers.
To stop a jerk doing really stupid things, especially if she is 16 and have a built in webcam (you get what I mean) requires commercial, manageable and reliable software. I had to keep a machine safe and machine had to run win, ended up in hands of Kaspersky and outpost. Free antivirus doesn't cut it when someone clicks every link mentioning Justin Bieber.
If schools "free"servers upgraded "for free", it may also require a newer windows client.
The guy's cigarette and cowboy hat really make me question his credibility... makes me wonder if his IT skills include running cat5 cable from one mobile home to another in his trailer park so that his neighbour can plug into his Dlink DIR-655 router and share his inet access. What a dork!
A little confused here.
WTH does haberdashery and smoking have to do with technical ability? Is he supposed to wear some sort of uniform to enter the Most Ancient Sacred Society of Geeks? Is he supposed to get a blazer and pin to wear at meetings? Enquiring minds want to know. All the truly competent geeks I knew wear pretty much what they want -- in varying states of repair.
I know plenty of IT people that wear worse. Personally, as long as he isn't a member of the malodorous anorakii geek tribe and I have to work within smelling range, I really don't care. Over the internet, his bits don't stink.
Yes, this culture of loons is a fundamental part of contemporary USA. Yes, these are the wing nuts, or 'crazies' as Ronald Reagan himself named them, who voted in and consisted of the George W. Bush administration. Remember this guy with his specially bought $1 hollow bullets shooting his daughter's laptop the next time US ReTardlicans and Neo-Con-Jobs pull another insane act on their family, country and the world. This guy and his self-destructive family, friends and elected officials are those with whom you are dealing. (o_0)
Suggested Reaction: Have a cynical laugh and look elsewhere for people who make life among our fellow humans worth living.
<Sigh> Once again, please indicate where in the video he talks about his political leanings in order for you to lable him a "neo-con"? As I pointed out earlier, he could be a local Democrat activist, you simply don't know. In short, your post does nothig but display your mindless prejudices.
Simple transference, I'm afraid. In order to dehumanize other human beings, some find it necessary to take all things they find objectionable, and plaster them on people whose politics they don't like -- or vice-versa. Regardless of fact.
It turns a world of infinite shades of grey into convenient black and white, suitable for hating at leisure.
He does not actually smoke the cigarette. Probably a dead laptop he shot. The joke is on the people who like this.
Any 45 caliber bullet would make the same size hole. Hydroshock needs to hit something meaty to expand and do real internal damage. Scattergun would do a better job! Nice hat.
Hillbilly boy shot up his daughter's laptop because she bitched about doing her chores? The only person he humiliated was himself. Ol' boy should be more in control of his emotions, letting his anger run away with himself like that is not a good sign. You save the gun for life-threatening situations, not getting into a pissing match with your own 15-year-old teenage daughter on facebook. Jesus.
Also, ol' boy is pretty ignorant, ain't thinking too far ahead. What happens when she *does* go off to college? What type of fella is she going to bring home to pa? And how much fun are they going to have re-watching that video now that's out there on Youtube for eternity. What about when ol' boy gots to git a new job hisself someday? Corporate may not look to kindly on hiring a gun-toting redneck with anger issues.
Only thing this dumb redneck shot was himself in the foot.
Well, she doubtless learned that the proper response to a public tantrum is an even bigger public tantrum...
She doubtless learned that the best way to show your love for someone who is dependent on you is with public humiliation...
She doubtless learned that it's safer to bury any feelings that she might have from her over-reactive father than to deal with them openly...
She doubtless learned that the only rational, adult response to adolescent venting is gunfire...
...and, presumably, if her father is ever job-hunting in the future, she will then get to learn the dangers of posting video on the web which demonstrates that you can be an absolute fucknuckle when you are frustrated.
He is a man of his word. He promised her something like this would happen the previous time she did something like this and then he followed through. This was not a tantrum.. he was calm and level headed throughout the video and remained so all the way through the end. I also believe because of his actions IF he ever did need to look for a job that if people recalled the video he'd get offers on the spot. He was defending his family's honor and his word after sh had disrespected it in a public forum.
"She's a spoiled little brat without a clue. Maybe she learned something from the video but it's doubtful."
Read his FB page.. She agreed after she read the 96% positive feedback he got. She also offered her cell phone (since she has lost the use of it while she is grounded) up to be shot if will help the charity they support gain financial support... in it appears to have done so... and he is very grateful for as well Also he defends her many times on his page stating it's ok to give him crap but leave her alone.
Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the case, it's clear to me that the father is a complete twat.
I would expect the daughter might be less hurt by the mindless vandalism (even if it is worryingly violent), than by his lack of shame in advertising his twattishness to YouTube viewers. You don't have to sympathise with her much to (a) wonder if he would ask a son to make coffee; (b) develop your own prejudice against using a redneck to work as an "IT professional" (particularly one inclined to spend ~$150 on proprietary software for a single machine before trashing it).
...that some folks do not understand that this girl has serious psychological issues that will eventually required professional help. Many young people live in a drug crazed world of fantasy be it legal or illicit drugs. If she's not on drugs she has even more severe issues.
Her father probably did her a big favor by shocking her into reality. Let's hope with continued guidence by her caring father, this delusional girl will eventually get in touch with reality because she's in another universe at the moment.
"...that some folks do not understand that this girl has serious psychological issues that will eventually required professional help. Many young people live in a drug crazed world of fantasy be it legal or illicit drugs. If she's not on drugs she has even more severe issues."
Are you for real? She had a temper tantrum that she took public that's all it was. Are you a professional who can diagnose this without even seeing his daughter? Even his daughter agrees she screwed up. Teens do that sometimes.. She tried to push the boundaries and she got schooled.
Nuff said. Rational folks won't own a gun. Hell, the only gun IT guys own are Nerfs, or if you're richer, stun guns.
And his daughter is right to demand being paid for doing household chores.
I hope social services deal with this psycho. Preferably by taking his daughter away.
"Nuff said. Rational folks won't own a gun. Hell, the only gun IT guys own are Nerfs, or if you're richer, stun guns.
And his daughter is right to demand being paid for doing household chores.
I hope social services deal with this psycho. Preferably by taking his daughter away."
Really and free room and board aren't enough? She was doing less than 30 minutes of chores each day and for that she got free room and board, high speed internet, a cell phone, a nice laptop and whatever else that was provided to her. The police and social services have already looked into the video and they didn't have a problem with it.. and the daughter doesn't either. Read the guy's FB page!
Exactly. If all's I have to do to get free room & board is to do 30 minutes of chores, I'd be there like a shot, with nary a facebook tirade about the unfairness of it all.
As it is, I have to support the woman and the kids -- and I spend a hell of a lot more time than 30 minutes doing that, so I am a little short on sympathy for the little snowflake.
This guy is wasted in IT. Let's get him elected in whatever country he so chooses. About time the hazards of Facebook were put on display and the social degradation it can cause. If you push the boundaries of social liberalism there will eventually be a conservative backlash. Get ready for some more of this as I suspect there is a silent majority support for the position this guy adopted.
a majority is unclear, but they're far from silent anyway; unless you consider luminaries such as the denizens of Fox News or the nastier end of talk radio to be in any way "silent".
Seriously, though, I suppose it's easy enough to have a laugh at this, but I earnestly hope it's just a wind-up. I could just about go with "This is your laptop. This is the Red Cross store. This is me taking the laptop INTO the Red Cross store. Hello Red Cross lady, would you like a laptop?", but even assuming that matters are exactly as he said I can't help feeling that the reaction was disproportionate, wasteful, and unlikely to end up producing the desired effect. You can gain compliance with fear for a while, certainly, but that's a lot different to respect and I'm not sure this fellow knows the difference. What's next - her bedroom's untidy, so burn her teddy bear? Homework late? Set fire to her books! Lock her in the coal cellar!
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Shoot the kid, sell the laptop.
Less hassle, can be sure he won't get any lip again so after the next time (and there will be one, some kids don't learn) there won't be another next time and more than likely less press coverage, and any media coverage there is will receive more understanding and sympathy.
Win - Win all round for him...
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