back to article Apple CEO: 'Amazon Fire didn't dent our sales'

If purchases of the successful-if-flawed Amazon Fire bit into iPad sales during the holiday season, Apple CEO Tim Cook didn't see it. "I looked at the data – particularly in the US – on a weekly basis after Amazon launched the Kindle Fire, and in my view there wasn't an obvious effect on the [iPad sales] numbers," Cook told …


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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Why would otherpad sales affect what iPhone owners would buy? That's a no brainer.

    1. Chad H.


      Despite popular belief here and elsewhere, boot everyone who walks into an apple store, and walks out with something, is a fanboy

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        No, but you most certainly are, 'Chad'.

    2. big_D Silver badge

      Shock horror...

      A product launched in only one territory doesn't show impact world wide sales.

      1. Ragarath

        "and in my view there wasn't an obvious effect on the [iPad sales] numbers"

        So there was an effect that was noticed. In other words it did impact but I don't think the fire is designed to go against the iPad but as an alternative?

        Please note, I have not bought either so this is pure speculation :)

      2. jai

        good grief!!!!!

        big_D > doesn't show impact world wide sales

        Tim Cook > "looking at our data in the US – there was no obvious change"

        please can El Reg install some kind of a process that ensures people read the article before commenting? like a small quiz or something? or perhaps a minimum IQ requirement at least?

        1. big_D Silver badge

          He said looking at the data, INCLUDING, not exclusively, the US it hadn't in his OPINION made any notable difference.

      3. Chris 3

        It's always handy to read the story:

        "Again, my own view is – looking at our data in the US – there was no obvious change."

  2. Levente Szileszky

    Though so far he awfully sounds (even looks!) like a Puritan-in-Chief copycat...'s actually refreshing to hear at *some* factual things - the late Steve "Freedom From Pron" Jobs never ventured beyond his ridiculous hyperboles and downright lies and was always very blurry on actual sales numbers so we might see some change in the future here... it would be nice.

    Now only if that cheesy dress code and porn-actor car (SLR) could be fixed...

    1. Silverburn

      I'd become a porn-star too, if one of the perks was an SLR.

      1. Kirbini
        Paris Hilton

        I'd become a porn-star too, if one of the perks was....

        Oh, hell. That's enough perks right there.

  3. Stevie


    Is there anyone outside of the press who seriously thinks the Kindle Fire was ever intended to "displace" the iPad? They aren't remotely similar in function, footprint or fixtures and fittings.

    The Kindle Fire was designed as a "Nook" beater.

    Azathoth on a bike!

    1. Euchrid

      re: Bah!

      "Is there anyone outside of the press who seriously thinks the Kindle Fire was ever intended to "displace" the iPad? They aren't remotely similar in function, footprint or fixtures and fittings."

      It's not so much that the Fire would "displace" the iPad, but that there would be an impact on iPad sales. If you want something to watch video, read ebooks and browse the Web, something that I know some tablet (including the the iPad) users to pretty much only use their devices for, then the Fire would be a pretty good choice. In any case, how often does the average punter really know about the differences between competing products? How many people get an iPad (or put any other fashionable product instead here) because it's the best product for *them*?

      Going back to Fires over iPads, I know a few people that are waiting for a Fire because they were thinking about getting an iPad and sharing it within a family, but having a Fire each appeals. Robert X Cringely/Mark Stephens that he and his wife had planned to get an iPad for their three boys, but for about the same money, getting a Fire seemed a better fit - I know people who have said roughly the same.

      Personally, I didn't see the Fire as an iPad Killer and didn't expect it to have a huge effect (because they fit different niches), but with a brand like Amazon, together with a lot of iPad killer publicity and the price point, could imagine why some would-be iPad buyers get something else.

      1. CD001


        If you want something to watch video, read ebooks and browse the Web, something that I know some tablet (including the the iPad) users to pretty much only use their devices for, then the Fire would be a pretty good choice.


        Except it can come down to something as simple as being the first established presence.

        For instance I've known people who've bought iPods because they didn't know what an MP3 player was but they did know what an iPod was and what it did. I strongly suspect these will be the same people that buy an iPad and not a tablet.

        So whilst the Fire might be a good choice at a much better price I suspect it will be more seen, by many people, as a colour Kindle rather than an iPad.

        The iPhone is slightly different as people know what a phone is - it was an established technology long beforehand - so people understand that the iPhone is a mobile phone and that not all mobile phones are iPhones.

      2. Stevie


        Except the press, from several weeks before the US release up to and including this article, have been calling the device in so many words a competitor to the iPad and it isn't.

        Even a non-savvy buyer can see the obvious difference in size and knows enough to ask "can it do what an iPad can do?" to which the commission-conscious salesdrone will say "No", this time at least with the comfort of telling the exact and whole truth.

        Smaller, no camera, no microphone, and those are just the things I can list without switching on another braincell.

        Informed customers might think to ask if it is running full-blown android and will then learn that it isn't exactly a replacement for a tablet either, at least, not unless you go in and stamp all over Kindle's OS with your size 12s. Many of the Android apps for sale on Amazon won't run properly or at all on the Fire's OS.

        I seriously doubt from conversations I've had with dozens of iPad owners - not all of them IT savvy - that any of them would have given a second thought to buying a Fire instead of their iPad, even those who use it only for the things you've listed. The Fire isn't an iPad, you see.

        More telling: were this article to be about the Nook we wouldn't be having this discussion because the Nook was never trumpeted in the press as an iPad killer even though to all intents and purposes it is the same animal as the Kindle Fire.

        Tellingest: Amazon have never made this overblown claim themselves. If there were any substance to the claim, don't you think the worlds fastest-growing license to print money would have somehow worked in a way of saying so on their Kindle page?

        I say all this from the viewpoint of someone who owns and uses a Kindle Fire and has never used or owned an iPad. The Fire is a bookreader that can do other things when pressed. The iPad is, well, I'm not sure to be honest and those who own them don't have a consensus on the subject, but it allows you to read books as one of the nifty things it does, not as the primary design concept.

  4. Mikel

    Be the lead dog

    Because if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.

    The iPhone had a couple year head start too. But that's changing.

    1. alex 39

      Don't really think your metaphor means anything in actual reality, so here's another version...

      If you're not leading then your view is always of other dogs/horses arses; that doesn't change either!

    2. E Haines

      Yeah, it's changing all right...sales keep going up. By a lot, it would seem, according to the latest financials (124% iPhone growth vs 40% growth for the industry).

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Expanding on the horse racing metaphors..

        What happens when you are the lead horse and your jockey falls off and dies?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          > What happens when you are the lead horse and your jockey falls off and dies?

          You can run faster, but you get disqualified?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            You get beaten by...

            ...a horse wearing a suit

            (that part of Mr Cook's metaphor was a little unclear to me)

        2. Kirbini
          Thumb Up

          > What happens when you are the lead horse and your jockey falls off and dies?

          They make a movie about you.

      2. Andrew Harvey

        @alex 39

        I think that was EXACTLY what he meant - he was just being a little more subtle.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Whats changing?

      Symbian, windows Mobile and Blacknerry OS all came out after the iPhone?

  5. Steve Brooks

    logic please!

    Australia calling, now lets be serious here. I live in a capital city, made enquiries out of sheer curiosity from a major computer chain about tablet pc's. Recently I had seen the entire range of Samsung tablets on their pricelist, but you can't buy them, they are sold out weeks before delivery, fact is you can only erode a competitors market share when the market is flooded, ie, there are enough devices for everyone to buy one and then some left over.

    If apple can sell every iPad they bring into Australia, Samsung can sell every galaxy tab they bring into Australia, the only market share eroding being done is of devices that AREN'T tablets, so netbooks etc.

    1. Mikel

      Oh, sorry

      You didn't get the memo. The US now considers Australia "really, really south Florida".

      1. Rampant Spaniel

        Really south California no? Florida is on the other coast :-)

      2. ZweiBlumen

        "really, really south Florida"?

        I thought that was Cuba?

        (Not many iPads there I imagine)

  6. dave 93
    Thumb Up

    "magical and revolutionary"

    Doesn't matter how you spin it, sarcasm, quotes around it etc. - the iPad will be seen as a revolutionary product that caused a paradigm shift in computer use, and Steve Jobs 'invented' it.

    I have my asbestos underpants on, so flame away, but you know I'm right (unless you have your head so far up your own backside you can't see anything else).

    1. Anonymous Coward

      @Dave 93

      OMG!!!!111 People like you make me sick. I've a good mind to tell you "your an idiot" or, even better "ur an idiot".

      Anyone with half a braincell [myself included] knows that Alessandro Volta conceived the idea of the battery back in the 1800's, John Logie Baird pioneered the concept of electrically projecting imagery on a screen in 1926 and, as long ago as the Paleolithic era, the inhabitants of Lascaux in France were using their fingers to manipulate imagery on their cave walls.

      In addition, Xerox PARC were researching a prototype tablet style device, back in the early 1970s. Housed in an aircraft hanger, powered by six commercial diesel generators and cooled by liquid nitrogen, the 'Xerox-Block' was operated with a 3ft wide concrete finger, fired at the screen using a bazooka and could display the number "7" and the letter "G" for up to three seconds, before shutting down to avoid self-combustion.

      When are all those Appletard fanbois out there going to face up to this and admit that the iPad is nothing but a huge failure, cobbled together from stolen ideas and marketed at morons, baffled by anything shiny.

      I'd like to say more, but I'm worried that all this froth might damage my keyboard. Beside which, I've got some 'real' computing to do. I'm just going to change my terminal prompt to a different colour and can't quite decide between entering:

      "PS1='\[\e[0;32m\]\u\[\e[m\] \[\e[1;34m\]\w\[\e[m\] \[\e[1;32m\]\$\[\e[m\] \[\e[1;37m\]'"


      "PS1='\[\e[0;31m\]\u\[\e[m\] \[\e[1;34m\]\w\[\e[m\] \[\e[0;31m\]\$ \[\e[m\]\[\e[0;32m\]'"

      at the command line.

      1. Rafael 1

        "When are all those Appletard fanbois out there"...

        I often wonder whether {radical political|religious|utterly paranoid} nuts write something like that to further incite their clueless followers.

        "When are all those [insert offensive but catchy collective name for non-followers] out there going to face up to this and admit that [their belief] is nothing but a huge failure, cobbled together from [whatever unprovable and/or utterly irrelevant factoids] and marketed at [another collective insult], baffled by anything [feature of their belief that may be actually desirable]."

        Hey, this is fun. Have one on the house:

        "When are all those science-believing muppets out there going to face up to this and admit that evolution is nothing but a huge failure, cobbled together from writings from a man who believed his grandpa was a monkey, baffled by anything that makes sense and can be proved."

        Oops - you've used the troll icon. Never mind, keep calling us fanbois. That'll change our minds and ensure we appreciate your points of view.

        1. Anonymous Coward

          Don't do irony, then?

          Are you a Merkin, by any chance?

          1. Rafael 1

            Nothing personal, your take on appletards was very close to what we read from antiappletards. Your imitation was flawless :-)

            I am often amazed on how they describe Apple consumers as blind fanatic zealots while saying "I rather join the communist party than buy from Apple" (real quote, search the forum).

            No, I am not a Merkin, unless you count South Americans, in this case, please don't.

            Have a pint. We South Americans don't care which day of the week it is or even hour of the day.

  7. Wang N Staines

    Those non-Apple tabs are far tooo expensive. They need to reduce by at least 30% to compete.

    The same reason why Ultrabook will fail.

    1. Mikel
      Thumb Up


      Asus has planned a 7" tab with Tegra 3 for $250. That's going to turn your complaint around.

      1. Philippe

        Yeah Asus sure..

        Are those the guys who managed to release a Tablet with flawed GPS, Flawed Graphics, Flawed Wifi and no 3G option for 499 pounds and call it a winner?

        I am really concerned about the sort of tablets they'll release for $250. (that's about 200 pounds)...

    2. Anonymous Coward


      .I paid £100 for my non-apple pad at it does everything I need.

      Plays video (HD), plays audio, shows pictures, surfs the web, gets my emails, gets the news & weather, has iPlayer (and clones).

      Nope, quite happy thanks.

      Ok the wireless could be better, but got a work around for that and the battery life could be better, but hey it was less than 1/4 the price.

      1. Hooksie

        Em, that wouldn't happent to be a Touchpad would it?

        Come now, I have one of those too and I think it's actually better than the iPad in a lot of ways (sound for one, multi-tasking for another - and dual boot android) but it is considerably thicker and heavier and the pixel density could be better. But the only reason it was £100 inthe first place is because when HP tried to compete directly with the iPad at the same price point it went absolutely nowhere. Like I said, I love my wee Touchpad but if I'd had £500 to spend and it wasn't discounted even I, an Apple hater, would have had to plump for the Cupertino Kid because it's the best one on the market. Bar none. And you can talk about the Asus or the Zoom or whatever other one but it's just like that Volkswagen advert; why buy something like a Golf, when you can just get a Golf.

        1. hammarbtyp

          I had £500 to spend ...

          and I plumped for the ASUS transformer. Now don't get me wrong the iPad is a nice piece of kit but the price, no SD card expansion and you have to buy into the Apple walled garden put me off.

          I have been totally satisfied with my purchase and i believe there is little I would of gained by having a Ipad. The only thing I think is missing is better apps. Yes there lots around for android, but there doesn't seem to be the same level of innovation and quality in the iPad. Saying that most of the functions I use are built into android anyway so it is not a big issue.

          1. E Haines

            It should be illegal to use the "grammar nazi" icon and then proceed to write "would of gained". Or at least there should be some flogging involved.

        2. Eric Hood

          One of the improvements over the iPad is the on screen keyboard. The top row has numbers. YouTube also works better.

  8. Phil.A

    only an idiot would think that the Kindle Fire was a direct competitor to the iPad - it's like saying that the Ford Focus is a competitor to a Ferrari!

    The Kindle Fire costs £200, and is less than 40% the power of the iPad2

    The iPad2 costs around £500

    you pay for what you get - if you can afford an iPad, you buy an iPad, if you can't, you will buy something cheaper, or buy nothing at all

    anyone who already owns an iPhone will naturally buy an iPad, because you can install your apps directly onto it, and you're already tied into the "pay for everything" attitude, but if you have an Android phone, you'll buy an Android tablet, and if you have a Blackberry phone, you MAY buy a Playbook


      It all depends on what you need...

      It all depends on what you want and need.

      If your big thing is books, then something that is primarily targeted as book reader could very well displace sales of a more expensive device. Amazon is not the late entrant here. Apple is.

      That's something that "certain people" tend to gloss over.

    2. Raz

      @Phil.A Wednesday 25th January 2012 08:26 GMT

      I don't get what's this thing with affording an iPad, or iPhone or anything? They are not that expensive! They are cheaper than what a decent notebook costed last year. This view of people who can afford an Apple product must be doing well is why some (not very smart) people see having an i... something to be proud of. You are well off, drive in your recent X5. Really rich, change your S-Klasse every year. But don't buy a $500 gadget thinking "I made it!". The world + dog have an iPad these days, how is that something to be proud of?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I bought a Kindle Fire

      I opted for the fire because it was more compact, gave me the options I wanted and was lower cost. I could quite happily afford an ipad2, but I reject the project due to Apple's closed ecosystem.

  9. Ivan Headache


    Tim Cook's comment about the education sector is interesting.

    Last year after the BETT show I commented in one thread that I had noticed a lot of iPhone apps and projects for schools and made the prophecy that next year all those apps and projects would be on iPads. I was roundly downvoted.

    This year at the BETT, iPads were everywhere. Not just on the Apple promoted stand but even on the RM stand. True there were the other makes there too, but the iPad dominated the tablet in the classroom space. One stand even had them set in consoles like Argos terminals.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward


    "Anyone who already owns an iPhone will naturally buy an iPad"?

    Now thats twoddle, if you own an iphone you can buy whatever the hell you like, it doesn't mean you've been assimilated in the borg collective!

    I bought a ZTE Blade after my 3GS, played with it for a while and then set it up for my fiancee, and then I got a 7" Galaxy Tab!

    I'll tell you this much, Android is good, better than most mobile OS i've played with in the past, but iOS, well like Ronseal it does what it says on the tin and just works (near perfectly).

    My preferred example, app crashes on Android and it just hangs there for ages, eventually telling you that the app stopped responding blah blah blah. iOS has an app failure and it ends the task seemlessly and takes you back to the main screen where you can quickly restart the app and carry on working. No pish messages, no massive slowdown, no freezing.

    Its 2012, not 1992, no one needs to problem solve a crazy fault code to get an app working these days.

    1. Peter 48

      Funny, I found that on my android tablet (transformer) and phone (GS2) I get exactly this:

      "it has an app failure and it ends the task seemlessly and takes you back to the main screen where you can quickly restart the app and carry on working" Not that it happens very often (except for the rather pants stock Browser). I have only ever had the tablet lock up on me once and that was playing a game, for which a bug fix was released a couple of days later to stop that. My experience with iOS however was the exact opposite. My iPod Touch constantly locked up requiring regular reboots and frustrating the hell out of me.

      1. Chris 3


        If your iPod is locking up its faulty. Either try a full Restore or get it replaced if that doesn't work.

  11. David Perry 2

    Macs in education

    An Academy that was completed in past 6 months here (Hull) only use PC for backoffice functions. They have about 600 macs (running off one server apparently), and the project was spec'd and managed by RM (shudder). Academy teaching staff (one is my ex) all got macbooks. They bought a fair few iPads as part of this too (for students, mainly 6th formers), and are buying another 50 when RM cocked up the implementation to the tune of £20k (this info came from one of the deputy heads when I went to their launch as an Apple RTC).

  12. Wize

    If you did have a big bite out your sales, would you...

    1) Admit that there is a product taking away from your sales figures, thus alerting more of the public to this competitor and possibly loosing more sales.

    2) Deny it has had any effect?

    2 is always the popular option.

    1. Peter 48

      not quite right

      You forgot to add to point 2 - massage the numbers in your favour, then flood the market with "opinion polls" and "statistics" that all favour you over your competitor.

      (not to say that apple invented this or are the only ones to do so, but they are the true masters of spin, leagues ahead of anyone else in that matter)

    2. Chad H.

      If you were running a plc and a competitor was having an effect would you

      A) admit it

      B) use some guarded language to admit some effect, but not too much

      C) lie and go to jail

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward


      iPad sales Q4 2010: 7.3m

      iPad sales Q4 2011: 11m

      As Amazon don't release actual figures it does make the analysis awkward, but they have said they are selling "well over 1 million Kindle devices every month". So, assuming best case scenario that all of those were the Fire in December and that they wouldn't say "over 1m" if it was in fact over 2m, we can quite safely assume the actual sales are no more than 2m at best.

      That means it is possible that Apple might have sold 13m iPads in Q4, but that 2m people opted for the Fire instead. Given that Apple have sold ~4m iPads more than the same period last year anyway, I can see how it would be difficult to spot a downward trend caused by the Fire (at least at this stage).

      But I'm sure you're right and the guy is just plain lying.

  13. Andy Farley

    In my house

    There is one PC, 3 iPads, 1 iPhone, 1 Windows Phone, a Kindle 4 and a Wii.

    That's just 2 adults and 2 children of 7 & 5.

    I'm not sure what point I'm making other than there's going to be an awful lot of mixed households out there and these things seem to be creating their own niche.

  14. Andrew James

    we're all unique snowflakes

    Everyone is different. I had an android phone, as does my wife. We have an iPod touch. We have a 4 year old mid range laptop and a 3 year old netbook. These suit our needs just fine.

    Given the choice, i opted for an android phone, because the total cost throughout its life was a lot less than the iPhone, while the features i use are similar enough between Android and iOS that it makes little difference to me. Same with my wife. However, that said, we both prefer the feel of iOS.

    Having played with a couple of iPads at friends houses i can say that using one to browse the internet or watch iPlayer etc seems much less formal than sitting with a laptop or netbook and doing the same. You feel less hidden away and more part of the group and the conversation going on around you.

    If i were to get a tablet, which I am sure i will at some point to replace the aging netbook which gets used less and less these days, I would get an iPad. I don't need it to be expandable with a thousand ports and memory card slots. I have all that on my netbook and laptop and dont use them. I just need a window to the internet with plenty of options for quality apps that work.

    A pro photographer i know has an android tablet (not sure which) that has usb ports and sd card reader, and he uses it to review photos on a bigger screen while he's out taking pictures. But he also has an iPad that he gives to newly married couples who come around to review their photos, because its easy to load up with the pictures and just leave them with it to flick through, and people feel comfortable with it.

    There is someone out there for pretty much every product you can think of. You cant expect that one product will suit all needs. And you shouln't shout down anyone who doesnt want the product that you think best suits their lifestyle, etc.

    1. Levente Szileszky

      RE: we're all unique...

      "Having played with a couple of iPads at friends houses i can say that using one to browse the internet or watch iPlayer etc seems much less formal than sitting with a laptop or netbook and doing the same."

      You mean the fact that you CANNOT browse the web from your iOS unless the page can serve up a different version for your crippled device, without all Flash, unlike on a laptop where all things "just work"?

      " You feel less hidden away and more part of the group and the conversation going on around you."

      Aye, the Apple BS, poured over everything, in thick layers, only to cover all the stupid, false crap Jobs was famous to produce regularly in defense of his cash cow Walled Garden model.

      1. Chad H.

        You act as if the majority of websites use flash for anything more than ads.

        No flash messages for content in my experience are quite rare.

        Any site relying upon a plug in, especially one as frustratingly buggy and hoggy as flash doesnt have anything worthwhile on it, from my experience.

        1. JEDIDIAH

          The Amish of California

          Flash is used for content. There's just no denying that. You might as well try to claim that the world is flat.

          When I am browsing the web, I expect to be able to browse any website and not just ones that the cult leader has declared acceptable. It may suck that Flash is a pig. It sucks even more not to have the right to choose.

          1. Chad H.


            Flash is used for content, but its almost always for advertising content. I can live without that.

            Flash should only be used in sparring cases - if you're running a page full of static pictures and text in Flash, there is something wrong with you, not with your non flash using viewers.


      Conspicous consumption

      As a photo viewer, an iPad is nothing special. It might even be a bit overpriced. As someone trying to sell your services in an environment of heavy conspicuous consumption (newlyweds) you might want to show off the Apple product just to keep up appearances.

      An Android is actually the easier device to deal with if you are moving things around. There's nothing like iTunes to get in the way. Just plug it in and drag and drop.

      This is about making an impression on the kind of people willing to spend 6 figures on a wedding.

  15. Levente Szileszky

    It's more than hilarious when Jobtards go over the posts...

    ...and vote up those few lunatic posts raving about the iPad as "revolutionary" (sic! :D) and vote down everything that's less than that. :D

    Insecurity about your $500-$800 investment into a device that cannot even browser ~80%+ of the free web (no Flash for you, sorry), instead forces you to spend more on stupid apps, only to gain access to the same thing the web offers everybody else for free? Most likely.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Cut it out, Barry. We know it's you.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Can't understand this obsession with Flash. Care to explain what we're missing?

  16. Kernel

    @ Levente Szileszky

    Your ravings might make more sense if it wasn't for the fact that Adobe have announced that the version of Flash they produced for Android ICS is the end - the next version of Android will not have Flash either.

  17. Robert E A Harvey

    Amazon Fire didn't dent our sales...

    Let me finish that for him: "...yet"

  18. ZenCoder

    iPad is great for web browsing ..

    I got an iPad because for a vary narrow usage, cramming dozens of programming pdf's into an ebook reader. Kindle sucks at anything other than fiction, I read fiction on my kindle on an almost daily basis, but trying to read a technical manual on it is horrid. Carrying a dozen physical books is kind of bulky, reading on a laptop just doesn't cut it for me.

    I didn't expect to like the iPad much, was presently surprised and now its my favorite computer product.

    I'm really glad I bought the iPad before the $100 HP Tablet sell off, because I would have stuck with that and likely never tried and iPad. I wouldn't know what I was missing.

    I see the Fire more as competition for the iPod Touch than an iPad.


      The zen of cheapness you are basically saying that you think a cheap but craptacular product would still be good enough to prevent you from buying a much more expensive alternative.

      That seems to flatly contradict the spin and damage control coming from Apple.

      1. Dana W

        You are kidding right?

        Damage control coming from APPLE? Have you seen their stock price today?

        Most companies wish they had that kind of "damage"!

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