My only comment:
There's only one thing to say about this:
Where the hell is/are the parent(s)?
Everything else is moot in the face of that question.
British youngsters have become so addicted to the internet that they will relieve themselves into bottles rather than step away from their screens to visit the lav, reports the, er, Sun. It is online multiplayer games such as World Of Warcraft that are coming between children and the toilet, with addictive game play …
This article also has the whiff of someone being trolled. I've known some pretty hardcore WoW players in my time but not one of them has ever done stuff like that. Next we'll be hearing how sweet little Timmy from the Home Counties whores himself out every evening to pay for Farmville items.
It's not only a teens problem, I know of several over-60s with the same internet and game addiction and, to make matters worse, their bladders aren't as efficient as a teenager's.
Internet addiction is a much more serious problem than generally acknowledged although that fact ought to be obvious even to Blind Freddy. Today, one only has to be a vehicle driver to have good anecdotal information to that effect. How many times have you had to make an emergency stop when some iPhone-addicted person blindly walks out onto a roadway in front of you whilst texting?
It's not only people walking onto roadways, in just about any endeavour known to humankind you'll see people whose eyes are glued to their smartphones as if their life depended on it.
Incidentally, I've avoided such annoyances by having both internet and texting services turned off at the telco, my cellphone is just that--a voice phone (life is much more peaceful).
"Any activity, substance, object, or behavior that has become the major focus of a person's life to the exclusion of other activities, or that has begun to harm the individual or others physically, mentally, or socially is considered an addictive behavior. A person can become addicted, dependent, or compulsively obsessed with anything."
-- Ruth C. Engs, RN, EdD. Professor, Applied Health Science, Indiana University (http://www.indiana.edu/~engs/hints/addictiveb.html)
I don't know many (any?) people who would pee in a bottle to keep gaming. As far as timing of game sessions goes, I question if waking up early and gaming for a bit qualifies. I would say it does if, and only if, work/school is compromised... I'm not convinced this article established that in cases where the "addict" was getting up early morning to play.
I have gamed early morning, mostly I'm kinda annoyed to be up that early and unable to sleep. I'm mostly a night person, but, due to call, sometimes have my sleeping patterns disrupted. Nothing open, can't go get a coffee... nothing on TV (is there ever anymore?)... don't want to bother anyone (I'm not QUITE that rude)... so I either stare at the ceiling, or go through the normal hygiene routine and play until it's time to go to the office.
I've also texted at inappropriate times, I'll admit it (not an iPhone though, just the company-provided BB). In almost all cases, the person who was texting me was my boss. So, maybe my life didn't depend on it, but not being on the dole did.
It depends what you mean by 'where'. Mostly like they are on the same server, but occasionally a parent will roll for a different faction to keep their objectivity when disciplining their kids for hogging too much WoW bandwidth. If you mean 'where at 3am', my best guess would be farming mats or playing rated battlegrounds.
Obviously I agree with 'muppet', but you should be aware that there are genuine chairs of 'Understanding Science'. At Oxford, Marcus de Sautoy succeeded Richard Dawkins in the Charles Simonyi chair, and Jim Al-Khalili occupies a similar chair (Public Engagement in Science) at Surrey. But they're at real, rather than pretend, universities.
Check in up and coming IT catalogs, it'll probably be the next big thing in computing. After all, these days it's a desperately needed IT accessory.
An advanced/more efficient model wouldn't need the line to the loo. Its heating arrangement would vaporize the waste. The greenhouse-producing water vapour would be vented directly to the air and the solids--urea, caffeine, pot and other recreational drug byproducts--to a container labeled "To be emptied into the backyard once a year by Mother".
Any parent knows that the hardest thing in the world is to persuade a teen to get out of bed. Yet here we have at least 2 kids who are so motivated by something that they'll voluntarily haul themselves out of the pit (while hopefully not tripping over bottles of stale pee - hey, if it was good enough for Howard Hughes ....) at 3 a.m. to partake of an activity with other, like-minded, people.
Rather than praise their dedication, determination and competitive spirit, she chooses to scoff at their choice of entertainment and criticise their methods of maximising their participation. I can't help wondering if this lady is guilty of a huge double standard: taking the errr, "mick" out of games players yet admiring sports-people who spend much more of each day (and are prepared to suffer more) fulfilling their obsession for equally fleeting successes and rewards.
Maybe she should be less concerned with forcing normative behaviours on children and look instead at how this enthusiasm (or obsession?) can be harnessed into something a bit more constructive than passing comments on how other people spend their time?
"I can't help wondering if this lady is guilty of a huge double standard: taking the errr, "mick" out of games players yet admiring sports-people who spend much more of each day (and are prepared to suffer more) fulfilling their obsession"
Paula Radcliff dropped a puddle in the middle of a race but gets millions in sponsorship deals, so the reward is worth the pain, effort and embarrassment. Sitting in your own room, not being paid, and putting yourself through a similar experience for fun is just plain crazy behaviour, it's also disgusting and pure lazyness. The games players in this situation, and keeping the running theme, are the equivalent of your dad whipping out his old chap in the middle of the parents race at a sports day rather than professional sportsperson in a competitive race.
>>"Paula Radcliff dropped a puddle in the middle of a race but gets millions in sponsorship deals, so the reward is worth the pain, effort and embarrassment.
The games players in this situation, and keeping the running theme, are the equivalent of your dad whipping out his old chap in the middle of the parents race at a sports day rather than professional sportsperson in a competitive race."
So sport is only worth doing if you make money out of it?
I guess that makes the vast majority of amateur sportspeople pathetic timewasters.
And as for the 'embarrassment' side, why should people be embarrassed about something they do in private? It'd be a bit different if they were doing it in a room with loads of other people in.
And what's the big deal about pissing in a bottle anyway, as long as you don't start making a collection, or get the bottle mixed up with one you're going to drink out of?
FFS, urine is effectively filtered processed blood, and most people's blood, mine included, is good enough to remove and put into ill people to help make them better. It doesn't become magically evil as a result of passing through the kidneys.
While somebody else's might be unappealing, my own is unlikely to do me any harm.
Ever been alone in a tent in the middle of the night in wild weather when the choice is:
a) get dressed, get out of tent, get soaked, get in tent dripping wet, get undressed, try and find somewhere to put soaking wet jacket.
b) get bottle, use bottle, stick hand outside and empty bottle (or leave until morning)
believe me, b) is a much nicer option.
"So sport is only worth doing if you make money out of it?"
No, That's not what I said. Sport is only worth suffering for if you are being paid. Amateur sport is fun, if you start to take it too seriously and make sacrifices for it that could be avoided then surely it is no longer fun and is just an unpaid job. A bit like playing computer games...
"it's also disgusting". I find it hard to square with this, partly because whatever someone chooses to do in their own home with a sterile fluid from their own body is entirely up to them, and secondly because there's plenty of people who have to do things other than go to the toilet when they pee (commodes and catheters spring to mind). Not sure why you find it so disgusting to pee in a bottle rather than a bowl covered in germs?
"Not sure why you find it so disgusting to pee in a bottle rather than a bowl covered in germs?"
The sort of person willing to pop a bottle under the computer desk to avoid spending 2mins using the toilet is definitely not going to be caring enough to make sure every last drop goes into the bottle, hence they will end up peeing a little on the floor. If you are the sort of person who is happy to sit in a room stinking of piss whilst spending your life playing WOW then well, I guess explaining why a normal person finds it pretty disgusting is pointless.
>>"The sort of person willing to pop a bottle under the computer desk to avoid spending 2mins using the toilet is definitely not going to be caring enough to make sure every last drop goes into the bottle, hence they will end up peeing a little on the floor. If you are the sort of person who is happy to sit in a room stinking of piss... "
So I guess that means you've met all those people and individually assessed their fastidiousness, manual dexterity, and choice of receptacle in order to arrive at you definitive statement?
And you know (presumably without experience) that they'll be careless enough not merely to spill anything in the first place, and not merely to pee a little on the floor; but to leave the room 'stinking of piss'?
If the thought of a drop or two of urine on a floor makes you writhe in disgust, what do you do if someone does something *really* unhygienic, like sneezing without a handkerchief?
Remove the carpet for incineration and have the room fumigated?
Or is it just the imagined smell that upsets you, rather than actual *hygiene*?
Very true. I used to subscribe to Eve-Online and it amazed me how much time and effort some people would put it into. People happy to organise and manage corporations with hundreds even thousands of members. People willing to put in several hours preparing strategy for and then fighting huge campaigns. People willing to work out the machinations needed to build stuff and then figure out how to make a profit selling it.
I've not played many other MMORPGs but the complexity of Eve was staggering. Yet tens of thousands of people spent their leisure hours on it and from what I could tell put more effort into the game than they did anything else. If only that effort could be directed into doing something useful.
Perhaps it's symptomatic of the lack of fulfilment these people find in their real lives, people who may have abilities far beyond those required by their day jobs?
Maybe they didn't go to the right schools, or be born to the right parents to be able to realise their ambitions and thereby make the most of their talents? If so, it's a damning indictment of the structure of "real" society and the "real" economy that these people's efforts go (materially) unrewarded.
I could cope with the peeing but World of Warcrap? If you're going to pee in a bottle at least have a decent reason, like the women in the house hogging the bathroom for 4+ hours at a time.
And to think I used to like Blizzard, at least so far as Diablo 2. I loved D2 but nothing since has made me give a damn.
We know there are young males who play Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Games (MMORPGs), such as World Of Warcraft, and who, if part of an international guild, will set their alarm and get up at three in the morning to play.
Its our life stop trying to rule what we do!
if we want to play a game we shall
if we want to play all night we shall
Theres alot more concerning things out there than people playing a game.
Ah but is the crux, like any addiction, is when any given activity starts interfering with other aspects of a persons life. Such as work/school etc.
Though I wonder, is peeing in a bottle any different when engaged in an activity that requires you to assist others to minimise 'downtime' from me taking a crap outside when I'm out climbing.
I guess WOW is now pretty much dead as it's being used to scare the dreary eyed sun drones out of their small minded comfort zones. It takes ages for cultural phenomenon (and I think WOW now qualifies as one) to reach the intellectual backwaters where sun readers reside.. I used to have all night marathons of Red Alert (just one more map...) before going to school the next day.. but that obv had a pause button so there was never any reason not to use a toilet.. I guess if you are in the middle of a raid the rest of your team might not be that happy about their healer f'ing off for 5 min while they all stand about getting slaugthered. I imagine it's more of a voluntary thing though than peer pressure to bottle it :)
I think it is more telling that WOW has now even managed to enter the psyche of the common sun reader and seemingly having been identified as something bad and confusing that all the kids are doing that they just dont understand and which must therefore be bad.
In reality of course all the cool kids have picked up their favorite urination bottles and moved onto SWTOR :)
Expect the sun to cover that story in about 2 years time.
In the meantime I hope they will do a story about how I have got up at 5 this morning (only 2 hours after these crazy WOW kids!) and have already had 3 energy drinks (over the daily recomended limit already!) just so that I can crack on with work that I didn't manage to get through yesterday. I'm planing on doing the same tomorrow as well, and several others in my office are on the blue stuff as well, its an epedemic!
Makes you wonder where our parents are, but at least we use toilets.
I'm no fan of The Sun , but calling them dreary eyed drones and then apparently being proud of the fact that you "used to have all night marathons of Red Alert (just one more map...) before going to school the next day" in my mind marks you out as a hypocrite and to be frank , a bit of a loser.
Proud? No, just lots of fun.. and quite a bit exciting, commanding armies of tanks across europe... although does tend to leave you a bit tired the next day. Have also had a few late night sessions with civilization during uni :) Quite why this makes you think I'm a bit of a loser I don't understand but maybe you don't play computer games yourself? or only during certain times of the day?
I have dabbled in various MMO games but don't really like them.. at some point you get bored but then 'cant' leave because your level something something tingting needs xp and your guild needs you for raids/stuff. Not like red alert when you finally get bored you can just put it back on the shelf until you fancy working for Kane again :)
What I mean by dreary eyed drones is that the sun is not an 'objective' newspaper (none really are, but some are worse than others). It panders to a certain mindset/world view and reinforces the notion that that theirs is the only real way of life, and that all alternatives are to be feared and resented.
So they become drones, fed the bits of news with an angle that will confirm what they already know/think about the world.. asylum seekers causing cancer, pedophiles hiding in our freezers, etc. At some point someone who is in such a way surrounded by 'yes-men' (imagine having someone tell you every morning that you were right about everything and btw, the things that you don't like are actually worse than you thought) will start believeing that there is such a thing as 'the right way to be' (them, obv), and that everyone that doesn't fit that description are not just strange but down right poisonous to what they perceive/want society to be. I'll stop there before I disgrace myself by falling foul of Godwin's law :P
dreary eyed as in tired, I accept that label as hypocritical at least, as I didn't get that much sleep last night, spent quite some time into the night doing diy to my flat
Btw, I did read what you said about not being a fan about the sun, I'm not suggesting the above pertains to you, just wanted to clarify what I meant by dreary eyed drones :)
Fireball because, you know, red alert :)
""I've worked with kids who will urinate in a bottle in their room, rather than leave the screen," she writes."
Yeah, I am sure that there are a tiny percentage who will do that. In the same way there are small numbers of people who will pee in a bottle rather than miss a second of the Eastenders Omnibus...
She is an idiot and presenting information like this, without any indication of sample size, representation etc, is not just meaningless, but it is geared to promote her personal agenda.
GTW = Got The Girlfriend.
Back in 1996, I was trying to get a young lady to go out with me. She was strangely reticent about answering her phone, so when she did pick up, I'd keep chatting for as long as I could.
Anyway, one night I'd had a coupla cans, and was on the phone to her. An overflow warning came through from down below in the middle of our conversation.
Now, I knew from experience if I left to visit the little geeks room, she wouldn't answer if I rang her back afterwards. There was only one thing to do - out with the pocket knife, cut the top off a beer can and piddle in that. While we were chatting on the phone.
She never sussed.
I'm kind of tired of seeing article after article about how gaming is bad, gaming causes stupidity, violence, addiction, peeing in bottles etc...
At the end of the day, the character traits of the people getting addicted to a game such as WoW and peeing in a bottle would do very odd unusual things in many different circumstances, and this is not going to be a behaviour specifically caused by a game or one individual type of activity.
How do I know this? Well, in World of Warcraft raids that can go on 8 hours+, there are very regular "bio" breaks in order for people to sort themselves out (eat, drink, urination etc...) - There would actually be no "need" to sit there and pee in a bottle, because while your doing that everyone else in the raid has actually gone to their physical toilet.
That means it's not the fact that the user "can't" leave the game. It's that they simply "won't". That character trait isn't going to be something brought on by that game in particular (or a similar one), but a character trait that's built into that person because of maybe other issues (aspergers etc...)
The bad publicity games get is simply unjustified - These people already have difficulties and online games will not be causing them.
Can't these losers simply realise they're wasting their time?
Gordon Bennett, I cannot believe my facebook pages (which I use to keep in touch with my kids in UK). They're forever swapping some kind of 'token' between each other.
Could be learnig summat, like speling and decent gramar.
Yoof of today. Sometimes, I could weep.
Given that people are being expected to work in excess of 60hrs a week, it won't be long until management decide that it would be more "productive" to give employees pee bottles so that they don't ever have to leave their desks.
Because obviously people can remain at 100% efficiency when they are working 10 hour days, 6 days a week.
<---Foamy Glass under WoW players desks
So, they'll grow up to write comedy for Saturday Night Live?
I remember a story from Tina Fey's bio (Reading over my wife's shoulder, mind.:) were Ms. Fey writes: "There is an actual difference between men and women comedy writers, and I’m going to reveal it now. The men urinate in cups. And sometimes jars." She goes on to explain that she found a jar of piss in the Weekend Update writers room.
I may not have peed in a bottle but I used to spend the majority of my waking time sat in front of the original Unreal Tournament. Some nights I organised practice sessions with my clan. Sometimes we played friendly matches. Sometimes we played league matches. Sometimes I adminned the leagues. Sometimes I went on public servers to have a laugh and spot new tactics.
Occasionally I slept.
After a few years though the game wound down, as they naturally do, I got a girlfriend, got married, found other things to do, had kids, and had no free time. Now my every waking moment, outside of work, is taken up again, this time with child-rearing/wife-abating activities.
People have free-time. It will be taken up with something. It probably won't damage you whatever that something is. It's my fucking business not Tanya Byron's.
To an extent, you're correct.
But when it's your own child's time (and not "free-time" but sleep-pattern destroying, middle-of-the-night, hours-glued-to-the-screen-and-getting-RSI, 'must-do' gaming) then it's your problem as a parent. Free time is the afternoons, early evenings, not 3am unless you're working shifts.
Hell, when I was a kid, we had these things called bedtimes so that we got up for school in the mornings. Now I work in schools (not a teacher) and they have "breakfast clubs" so that kids actually get a chance to eat breakfast because their parents can't be arsed to provide the time for them by getting up 10 minutes earlier (they can personally drop them off to school by 8:30 - but no early because of school rules because the school end up with dozens of kinds at 6am - but they can't be bothered to feed them at 8:20 before they come out), children falling asleep in lessons and not having had simple things like breakfast, clean clothing, a bath/shower, etc. in the morning are actually becoming a big problem for schools (who are then obliged to provide said facilities in the interests of child welfare and chase the parents for years to make them do it). I've seen students having to be escorted to the school canteen at 9am because they haven't had anything to eat since lunch the previous day and you can *hear* their stomach rumbling. One school had to wash the child's clothes because the parent's "didn't have time", etc. They were reported, obviously, but it takes years for anything to happen about that.
Modern life does alter sleep patterns to a crazy extent if you let it, but nobody in full-time education (i.e. under 18 now) should be still up at 3am if they have school the next day on a regular basis, and not just to play a game, and certainly not to the extent that they can't be bothered to pee properly. One-off's, sure. Holidays, possibly. Insomnia, understandable. But it's not unheard of for kids to just not go to bed at all and the teachers to have to cope with that the next day because the parents are too disconnected to enforce a bed time.
There's always a certain amount of hyperbole with stories like this but they do point at an increasing trend. Children, in general, are *NOT* having their phones switched off at night. They aren't stopped from going on the computer at 3am and doing so unsupervised. They are sacrificing huge portions of their sleep for purely social purposes which is having knock-on effects on education, schools and their future careers. They are addicted to the games and social interactions to the point where they don't want to pee. And some parents are entirely ignorant of this and don't really care.
With sensible parenting, it's not a problem, even if the exact incident as described here happens. Who cares? But without sensible parenting, such things are an indicator of a child that will grow up at a severe educational disadvantage, liable to addiction, unable to sleep on a schedule at all, and over-working themselves in the busiest times of life for their brain. Nobody wants to be a nanny, but this sort of thing is an indicator as to what will happen to these children later, and what's going on at home now.
Nobody cares if your kid plays games until 3am. On a non-school night. Or on a holiday. With your knowledge and (appropriate) supervision (which can be zero if you trust them enough). But people do care if they are so addicted to the game that sleeping, or even a short break to relieve themselves somehow becomes less important than talking to their "friend" on the other side of the world.
"Will desk-pee-bottles become standard practice as the new generation grows up and moves into the workplace?"
No, not in the long term: evolution will take care of that. One can only hope this behaviour is in the genetic material. Then again, it's 2012, just eleven months more to play WoW or whatever...
Truth is stranger than fiction.
When I was working on the Czech Republic, there was a news story about some supermarket workers who'd complained to the union about new working practices. The gripe was that trips to the loo were being clamped down on and female employees on the rag were required to wear red "deely boppers" on their heads (I kid you not), to indicate that they were entitled to use the bog more often.
The union's reponse was that they should STFU. The Polish union they were affiliated to was dealing with the problem that the workers for the same company operating there didn't get loo breaks and were instead issued nappies by the management.
.....that if you can afford to do it, then do whatever you want.
Over the years I've spent plenty on drinking, been out too late, had hangovers/sickies due to being out too late or having too much fun.
So the favourite area has shifted slightly? So what? Let them stew in their own piss and sooner or later they'll either grow out of it (or bored of it) or they'll just carry on doing what they want to do.
Provided it's in the privacy of their own homes and they aren't getting internet connectivity on my tax money who really gives a crap....?
I personally issue the warning "taking a leak" and put /follow* on the healer of the group. And go to the loo.
People usually waits 30 seconds without issue. Most people confess they take the break and go THEMSELVES TOO when I get back.
* Do I really need to explain what /follow does?
"I've worked with kids who will urinate in a bottle in their room, rather than leave the screen," she writes.
No numbers given. 'Kids' (plural) can be as little as 2 children. That's out of the entire UK population of sub-18 year olds.
Another instance of sensationalising by the mass media. (Surely not 'The Sun'?).
Classic sun journalism, they can't even get the facts right.
1) WOW has different servers for the likes of US and China etc, so nobody is going to be on a wildly different timezone. No getting up at 3am. For other online shooter games, they are largely ping dependent, so same goes.
2) Finding a guild who don't do 7pm-9pm core raiding times, is as unlikely as finding a good sun journalism. Hell, I've considered joining the US wow servers so that I can raid with someone at my time. Same for online shooter games, most matches will be 7-9pm.
it would be welcome if - especially the women - DID pee into bottles at their desk.
The time lost to queuing for a stall, washing, primping, adjusting hair, makeup and occasionally,. clothing, as well as having a dirty joke and a giggle, is according to unpublished studies, massive.
But if a kid is doing this on a school night, the issue is bad parenting, not computer games.
If the kid is doing is business into bottles, the issue is a lousy guild, not a lousy game. A guild that can't organize a bathroom break should not be expected to organize a decent raid or anything else.
Still, this article does give a new meaning to playing computer games until the wee hours of the morning.
This post has been deleted by its author
I spent 2-3 years playing Everquest after graduating and getting a job. Yep, there were early morning quests, but I sticked to a European guild to avoid stupid USA timezones.
Most fun part of my life!
Er... of course, I was a Wizard, so would just overnuke, get summoned, go to the loo, come back to myself being rezzed, and then carry on...
Nothing new here I've been pissing in to bottles year I prefer the 3 litre wide neck ones that really cheap soda or cider comes in. They make a great insulator when piled up at the window. Also boots some times to a buy 2 get one free on Depends, and that helps a lot when coding or gaming.
Those microwave burgers and hotdogs can also be heated quite nice by placing them on your heat sinks takes a big longer to get to temp but works fine and you dont have to move far.
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