Apple fined $1.2m for flouting Italian warranty law An Italian regulator has fined Apple €900,000 ($1.17m) for trying to sell a two-year extended warranty when customers were entitled to such a thing for free under Italian law. Apple offered a one-year warranty, with an option to extend that cover under an AppleCare Protection Plan, but Italian law says that all goods have to …
I made a genuine comment. I don't doubt the quality of Apple products nor their after sales service, my family have a number of iPods including a 1st generation one which is currently in the process of being replaced due to the battery issue. However, only offering a one year warranty does not instill consumer confidence in Apple products.
But if your looking for trolls then consider this. Build quality just means it's nice and shiny to hold and fondle, it is not a reflection of the quality of the inner workings.
No company can do this... That's the reason why there is a warranty... In other words that there is a reasonable expectation that the product properly maintained should be expected to last at least 2 years. If the device fails then it's fixed or replaced for free. I would expect the same from a Rolex or a Ford or a low end DVD player.
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They already offered the two year warranty, what they didn't do was inform the customer. That's what they're being fined for.
Of course that doesn't fit with what the freetards and fandroids want to hear.
They want to hear 'rip off' so they can rustle up some indignant rage and bask in their own self satisfied smugness
"An Italian regulator has fined Apple €900,000 ($1.17m) for trying to sell a two-year extended warranty when customers were entitled to such a thing for free under Italian law"
In other news crApple have patented the iYear*(c)(tm), all crApple products now come with 2 iYears warranty.
* 1 iYear = 6 calendar months
because Apple should have been providing the second year anyway!
That is the point of the fine. Apple gave a 1 year warranty and refused to give the statutory 2nd year, unless people paid extra for Apple Care.
Still, it works the other way as well. Leatherman offered a "lifetime guarantee", but Germany said that they couldn't do that, as it didn't specify a period. They changed it to 25 years and said that after that, they would still replace it anyway.
Apple IS and was already giving Italian users a second year of warranty FOR FREE
What they haven't done is inform customers of this at point of sale, not that unusual when did a seller ever make it a point of mentioning the warranty?
The problem here was Apple was also selling their Appleacare product which includes the extra warranty BUT it also includes premium extras like advance replacement and full telephone support.
Italian regulators though this could still mislead buyers into thinking they needed to buy Applecare.
Article 133 of the Italian Consumer Code states explictly "The offeror shall ensure that the guarantee states at least: [..,] in plain intelligible language the contents of the guarantee and the essential particulars necessary for making claims under the guarantee, **including the duration** and territorial scope of the guarantee and the name and address of the guarantor."
(http://www.consumatori.it/images/stories/documenti/Codice%20del%20consumo%20english%20version.pdf).
Despite this Apple 1) didn't inform the customer as the law requires 2) tried to not comply with the law (people opening this case did because Apple tried not to comply, not because they weren't given the proper informations only). It was done not only at its "point of sales", but also on its web stores where full warranty informations must be given to the buyer as reported here: http://www.agcm.it/stampa/news/5829-sanzioni-per-complessivi-900mila-euro-al-gruppo-apple-per-pratiche-commerciali-scorrette.html
And, sorry, most shops I buy from usually tells me the warranty length when I buy something, especially something expensive. Apple should train its employee better and design its site to comply with local laws.
I do not know if you're an Apple employee or not, but you're trying to tell a different story. Get the facts right, please.
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Apple fanbois - and indeed many others - will have a field-day downvoting comments with all the intellectual content of the average Youtube video comment. Here, have a downvote from me.
Apple was caught bang to rights here, but the reasons are weird. Either it simply thought it would ignore the law, which seems unlikely somehow once warned, or it scrambled and failed to produce a coherent Italy-based plan in time.
One of the problems, I suspect is that Applecare is global - I can buy in one country and then get Applecare anywhere else, just by quoting the serial number. So if the ruling applies to all Italy-bought items presumably their warranty will need to be extended globally for that item, or Apple can decide that the warranty extension only applies to Italy-bought items being serviced in Italy. You could see how this might get a bit knotty.
>Either it simply thought it would ignore the law, which seems unlikely
Apple have lawyers that can find patent infringers hidden under stones in the junlges of darkest Peru on a very dark night so I cannot buy into the idea that they are unaware of consumer law in any country they have stores.
When I bought a Citizen watch a few weeks ago, I was given two warranty cards. One lasting two year valid only in Europe, and a one year only "Worldwide warranty" valid abroad.
Now if Citizen can manage it this way, I guess the mighty Apple could manage it as well.
The real issue is I've read already US articles stating that "long warranties" are bad for customers because they "increase prices". Now I believe that the costs of building better products are better shared among the whole customer base instead of the costs of reparing or replace a defective product out of warranty for the unlucky ones when a company knows it can deliver products that just need to last a shorter time. Probably those writing those articles then buys German cars instead of US ones because "their quality is better" even if they are much more expensive.
Irrational implies there is nothing to hate. As most people on here will say, the problems aren't with the products it's with the way the company does business, customer lock-in, blaming customers for design flaws, vague catch-all patents, private security forces that invade peoples homes, refusal to work well with other companies, claiming they invented everything ever, the list goes on and on
its too easy to blame the pilot for going on a "joy ride" but in the incident you refer to, there was a whole host of things in play that caused that accident. Out of date maps not showing the cables in the first place was one of them. If more modern maps were made available, the planes would not have even been in that vale.
Politically, it was better to blame the pilots than the whole USAF as that would at the time have got the USAF kicked out of Italy if they had actually told the whole truth....
nuke? well it is the USAF we are yapping about
>Politically, it was better to blame the pilots than the whole USAF as that would at the time have got the USAF kicked out of Italy if they had actually told the whole truth....
Not telling the whole truth is the sort of arrogance that has landed Apple in trouble but unlike the Apple case neither the pilot nor navigator were punished directly for their actions.
various NATO air forces practice you would know that the dangerous time is when the USAF boys are around. They dropped a bomb on a war-time airfield building on the perimeter of the main NATO low-level bombing practice range a couple of miles away from here. Mercifully it was a practice bomb loaded mainly with concrete rather than high-explosive. A couple of farm-workers were working in the the other half of the same building. Public statement from the home base of the said USAF plane made much of the fact that it was "an uninhabited area." It's also a well-known fact that when any of their USAF boys get into trouble in terms of criminal charges they're removed from the country post-haste so that they aren't held to account. They don't do themselves any favours in terms of public relations. But then they reckon they're dealing with untermenschen anyway, I suppose.
Got my 4 years old MBP back from (free) repair due to the old NVIDIA chipset issue, but Apple found the disk was also borderline so they replaced it for free as well (after calling me to ask if that was OK and if I had backups). Took 4 days and only because they didn't have the old motherboard in stock.
Shame the fandroid/anti-Apple trolls (*coff* LarsG) who post here would rather be more content with HTC and others level of service, i.e. nightmare. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/05/18/htc_failed_support/
I don't work for Apple and it cost me to repair my out of warranty MB.
I suppose though it is only right for Apple fanbois to accuse me of trolling, when I am just refering to FACTS, incidentally I have a 4s which is issued not out of choice. I find the phone as good as any other but object to Corporations the use billy boy tactics.
As to the article, Apple had time and could have mitigated things but chose not to for some reason. They have kept a strange silence over it.
So sitting in my living room typing this on my 4s I have the smile of smug satisfaction on my fact.
I don't work for Apple and it cost me to repair my out of warranty MB.
I suppose though it is only right for Apple fanbois to accuse me of trolling, when I am just refering to FACTS, incidentally I have a 4s which is issued not out of choice. I find the phone as good as any other but object to Corporations the use billy boy tactics.
As to the article, Apple had time and could have mitigated things but chose not to for some reason. They have kept a strange silence over it.
So sitting in my living room typing this on my 4s I have the smile of smug satisfaction on my face.
All these downvotes for people who talk about Apple providing great, above-and-beyond customer service? Wow, some people's children ...
All I can say is that we've had great service from Apple. Their people have gone WAY above and beyond the warranty to keep us happy. And from what I hear from others I know, we're not the only ones, I know anecdote <> data, but a *lot* of people have very similar stories of quality hardware and great after-sales service.
Fully agree with you. State that you got good service from Apple and you get downvoted, comment that you got bad service and get upvoted. In my mind a statement of fact is not an opinion to be agreed nor disagreed with.
To paraphrase someone who once replied to me when I questioned why someone else was being downvoted. Don't try to understand them it'll only do your head in.
I see your point but I think the posts were more boastful off-topic comments on the level of service provided by the additional Apple Care warranty rather than forgiving the wrongful selling of it.
We'd never get to the end of the comments if along the way we donwvoted every comment that was off-topic.
The minimum two year warranty is not just an Italian law. It's an EU Directive, it should be Article 5 of the EU Product Warranty Directive (1999).
To sell in EU, and in Italy too, Apple has to comply with local laws, as any European company wanting to sell in the US. If in the US lately consumer protection went down the sink because "stakeholders value" and CEO bonuses are more important than everything else and rubbish can be sold to increase them, that's just a US problem. Elsewhere people can think differently and want that companies start to sell products that don't fail as soon as one leaves the shop with a 30 sec warranty only.
Apple is not alone, HP for example is trying to play the same game, especially now that most products sold are replacement for older ones and people must be forced to buy new ones even if they don't need them. But a company that built a lot of its reputation for "superior" products looks very bad if it can't comply with a law that just asks for a standard two year warranty. Moreover, Japanese companies have no problem to comply (i.e.Canon, Citizen, etc.). Only US ones have.
Apple was already proving 2 years of warranty in Italy, as per Italy's implementation of the EU directive you mention.
The fine was because Apple didn't state this clearly in their communication, and was at the same time selling an AppleCare product which overlaps with this.
However AppleCare is more than Italy's legal requirement, since it includes advance replacement, full phone support and International cover.
You can read here the official document:
http://www.agcm.it/stampa/news/5829-sanzioni-per-complessivi-900mila-euro-al-gruppo-apple-per-pratiche-commerciali-scorrette.html
Sentence 1) says that Apple was only applying the 1 year warranty and put obstacles to the ones trying to have their 2-year right fulfilled.
The Italian Antitrust agency recognizes that AppleCare partially overlaps the standard warranty, but Apple is bound to apply the 2-year warranty anyway and should tell it explicitly.
There is a 400k fine for 1) and another 500k for the lack of clear informations to customers.
Conveniently to your point you forgot to add that sentence 1 also refers to the Apple poorly communicating the customer right to a 2 year warranty.
That's what
"presso i propri punti vendita e/o sui siti internet apple.com e store.apple.com, sia al momento dell’acquisto che al momento della richiesta di assistenza, non informavano in modo adeguato i consumatori sui diritti di assistenza gratuita biennale previsti dal Codice del Consumo, "
means.
I posted the link to the whole document. It was denied that Apple was fined because it didn't comply with the two year warranty requirements and that assertion was false because it was fined while trying to deny that right. 1) **Also** it refers to the poor informations given. **Also**.
Of course they can't say "You have two years of mandatory warranty but we are not going to comply with it". Misleading informations are the necessary means to try to deny you a right you have.
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@Metavisor Hell i'm gonna throw this in to muddy the water,
www.guardian.co.uk/money/2009/jun/05/consumer-rights-returned-goods
The EU directive apparently(?) says "All EU countries have to ensure a retailer could be held liable for all 'non-conformities' which manifest within two years from delivery. However, this is not a two-year guarantee (although eurospeak does not help by describing this as the 'legal guarantee'), because goods are not required, in law, to last for those two years."
So I suppose they could argue thats it's free of non-conformities, but just sh*t once the SOGA protection has expired, in the UK at least.
Excuse me people, but I think everyone has missed the real story here.
Italy has a huge financial deficit and this is effectively a way of grabbing some cash to help out.
Don't be surprised to see this same story a few more times, just change the company name...
Pint as I'm not working until 3rd January ;-)
Why do people relentlessly and irrationally defend the illegal activity of a company (whose only purpose in life is to take their money) as if it were their misunderstood child? There has to be something seriously missing if you find yourself forming emotional attachments to such an entity.
Because there's so many relentless and irrationally attacks in these forums as if Apple was the some sort of spawn from the Devil itself.
Some people are either very jealous or missing something in their lives to form such hateful relation with a computer company.
That or we're just trolling around.
Uhh, that's kinda the point of having a company, you know. I own a business, and indeed, it's my company's purpose in life to 'take their money' and then give them a product in exchange.
I'm really not sure why people (in general) rail against this, as if organizations-that-sell-things-for-money are evil because they sell things for money. It gets kinda hard to keep giving people product if you don't ask them for money in return!
I got my sister an iPhone 4, she uses it overseas. The camera managed to stop working less than a month after the one year warranty. local dealer was not interested to fix it. got it here in Oz, had to pay $179 to fix it (it took 3 months for it to reach her with my mum) .
I call that a rip off and crappy customer relations. would never buy apple again. problem is my sister is a sucker for them even after this problem! I love their Macbooks, but after this, would not be getting anything from them for myself.
You as a customer are automatically entitled to the 2-year warranty as per EU Directive from the retailer.
The usual way of things is that the retailers are covered by the manufacturer - as a sweetener to carry their goods.
However, business to business sales (like the retailer and manufacturer) don't require that warranty. So now, the retailer can't pass (part of) the cost of honouring the 2 years back to the hard disk manufacturer anymore.
The end result is that prices of the non-manufacturer warranted drives will rise as retailers have to amortise that additional cost. In time you may also see some retailers drop the short-warranty brands - as an OEM we are considering switching model because we do 2-year commercial warranties as standard, and we've already eaten a lot of costs due to shoddy drives.
If you take a product back to Apple Store in London one week outside 12 month warranty do they still try to charge for repair or offer you just a 10% discount on a replacement ?
My understanding (from Trading Standards Officer) is that consumer durables should be durable. That means long outlasting a 12 month warranty.
To be fair, several High Street chains need reminding of this -- the "sorry we only replace within warranty" nonsense is usually overturned via a call to head office. I'd be interested to know if any customer has had to challenge Apple on this.
Because people are tired of the holier than thou attitude from the fanbois.. So when people try to apologize for Apple's miss-steps they get downvoted... Apple may be the "Most Loved" tech firm.. But I bet there are almost as many if not more who feel an equal amount of dislike.
Zippy - All companies miss steps at one time or another. Big or small there's not a single one that hasn't. So you pick the one realistic choice that aligns with what you want. My stack of choice is Linux on servers, OS X on desktops and iOS on mobile devices - it works well for me.
Trouble only starts when you begin to shit on other's choices, as the first posts in these comments exemplify. Note: from what I can see it wasn't apologetic fanboys who posted first here.
That said there must be some people who actually enjoy all this mudslinging.
It would be interesting to be able to see how many of the people who downvote pro-Apple comments have an actual grievance or are doing so just because "that's the in-thing to do" or like geolight mentioned below feel fobbed off when they don't get their own way.
Disliking a company for irrational reasons does not justify telling others they also should not like it.
All I can see is positive comments from people who paid for Apple Care and one from geolight about a product failing after warranty and expecting it to be fixed. He makes no mention of statutory rights in Oz so I'm assuming the one year warranty is all that was required to comply with local laws. Now if geolight had paid for Apple Care and refused service then he'd have a genuine grievance, as it is he doesn't. Or maybe he and others expect every company to fix things out of warranty. He says he won't buy Apple again but I suspect he would have received the same treatment from most companies. If he keeps that up he'll save a lot of money by never buying anything once he runs out of "preferred suppliers"
I bought a bag for my MBP from Amazon.co.uk and 15 months later a cord tensioner thingy flew apart. I sent them an e-mail and received one in return telling me to eff off. I replied stating that the bag should have been fit for purpose for more than a yea rand they should know this and next minute the telephone rings and an obsequian tells me that as my bag is only three months old he will refund me the total price. All somewhat surreal. One would have imagined that Amazon.co.uk would know the UK laws and can also see the details of their order. I have dealt with Amazon several times with regard to warranties, returning faulty or incorrect goods and they really seem to be a random shambolic act.
I agree that Apple do seem to be trying to ride roughshod over the EU two-year law at least concerning the information they publish on their website and they should be punished for not making it clear what the situation and their responsibilities in the EU are. We consumers do seem to get a bad deal when it comes to warranty and guarantee information, compounded by the ease with which we can move around within the EU. I think our EU expectations of sameness are not being matched with reality, maybe that is a high expectation but I am an optimist and hope that things will only get better.
The confusion for shoppers in the UK over the Sales Of Goods Act (www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54), Distance Selling regulation (www.out-law.com/page-430), the EU to-year warranty (www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1677034/Two-year-warranty-EU-law.html) and what the manufacturers and suppliers inform us is really an unforgivable mess and needs to be sorted out. It is most likely a similar mess in all the other EU countries too with previous and existing laws and practices .
The writer Bill Ray is indeed expressing "arrogance" and some prejudice in suggesting that " ...It's easy to accuse Cupertino of American arrogance in failing to respect local laws, but that seems unlikely "...., since Mr. Ray has no evidence that Apple did not intentionally disregard the laws of Italy.
The arrogance generally does come from US companies, such as Microsoft's actions against the European Union in their ant-competitive/Ant-Trust case, and many Brits play their usual role of American Dupe.
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