back to article Microsoft mum on leaked Phone OS plans

Microsoft has told The Register that it has no comment on an apparently leaked copy of upgrade plans for its mobile phone operating system. The presentation, leaked to, predicts an upgrade to the current Mango platform in the second quarter of 2012 – dubbed Tango. Described as “products with the best prices,” …


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  1. Anonymous Coward

    Lame is a viral marketing site created by Microsoft to pretend there is a grass roots usersbase of Windows Phone users, it's also a viral marketing tool to release "leaked" memos and such.

    Don't believe the hype as they say...

    1. Dave's Jubblies



      I mean this genuinely,

      If you believe even half the crap you spout about MS, then I sincerely suggest you see a doctor, as you are suffereing a serious bout of paranoia.


      A Concerned Citizen.

      1. Dana W

        Nothing paranoid about Microsoft's many astroturfing sites. Like the Zune fan sites that always had lots of traffic whenever a new Zune product came out, but were utterly desolate between releases. Astroturfing is Microsofts middle name these days.

        1. Arctic fox

          To: Dana W: Actually the lack of logic ought to be fairly obvious.

          This leak (if genuine - another point which should be taken into account) suggests that Windows Phone will not support high res screens, amongst other needed improvements, until almost 2013. This if anything is bloody embarrassing for Redmond and certainly does not support the accusation of officially sanctioned astroturfing in this particular instance. If this was leaked by someone within MS it rather suggests internal conflict and someone unhappy with the pace of development of the Apollo upgrade. When assessing an alleged leak from a major conglomerate like MS one should always take into account the likelihood that internal turf wars may be at least *part* of the equation or indeed the possibility that it is FUD generated by an outside player.

          1. Robert E A Harvey

            If Genuine?

            "leaked to" says it all. At the risk of Mr Boobies telling me I need to see a doctor.

            1. Arctic fox

              RE: ""leaked to" says it all." With all respect old chap, not it does not.

              When it comes to the murky world of astroturfing and FUDing I recommend reading one of John le Carre's Cold War espionage novels to get a flavour of how to try and work out what is going on. It is perfectly possible (in theory at any rate) that this is FUD fed to Wmpoweruser by a source they believe they can trust but is in fact compromised. I am not say that it *is* the case, I am just saying that the assumption in your posting is *not* the only possible explanation for what *may* be going on here.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Sock puppets

          Not that it proves anything, but is registered to M S Davids (as in Microsoft against the mobile Goliaths)?

          Anyway, after that little bit of paranoid conspiracy theory, I can't help notice that at least 2 of the posters in this conversation only ever login to post pro Windows Mobile, or anti iPhone and Android.

          Not that it proves anything.

          1. Dave's Jubblies

            @ Fats:

            Who are these people then? Cos I certainly aint.

            I post to try and balance the crap #some# people post, but I think I'm pretty balanced, having used WP and android a lot, and as I explained in another thread, use an android modded touchpad, linux in my work as well as Macs and Windows stuff.

        3. Jim Coleman

          Don't be so ridiculous. Do you work for Apple or Google or something? Most people on this site seem to feel that if you like a company, you must work for them, and if you hate a company, you must work for their competitor. So come clean!

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Hah - I'm way too incoherent and inconsistent to be a shill

            I post any old rubbish that takes my fancy.

            What I don't do is post at the prompting of a noble and selfless motivation to defend a the honour of a poor, helpless capitalist mega-corporation. I'm just too old and jaded to invest any emotional attachment in bytes and tin, and no bugger will shell out the meagre fee I demand to prostitute myself.

            It's amusing to imagine some of the most pro-this and anti-that mono-topical posters contributing from adjoining beige cubicles in some PR sweatshop.

  2. Manu T

    "Meanwhile rumblings from within Nokia suggest that the hardware design teams are ready with next generation handsets, but lack the software to make them work to their best extent. Not getting support for HD and multi-core processors for an extra year will give Android and Apple a massive lead, and make it hard for Microsoft to attract developers to its cause. "

    Gee, perhaps ditching Symbian and Meego was a bit premature, isn't it?

    Perhaps they can bring out yet another Belle phone but this time with a decent AUTOFOCUS-camera! Are you listening Nokia!!!! Stop crippling Symbian phones in favour of winphone device. We deserve a PROPER N8 upgrade too.

    Like I said before. An N9 with Symbian and Lumia's 1.4GHz cpu (at least) and ALSO with 64GB internal memory... and YES, also in WHITE!

    Anyway. it'll take yet another year before Winphone is just that little bit more tollerable. Oh god, when will they finally make phones that ppl actually want?

    1. admiraljkb

      @Manu T

      "Gee, perhaps ditching Symbian and Meego was a bit premature, isn't it?"

      Yep. My thoughts as well. Nokia is theoretically an independent company, not a division of Microsoft. While It is too late now to revive Symbian, but it isn't too late to quickly pop Android on a modern multicore device in order to get the Nokia brandname out there on a premium device that people will buy in volume. If they want to sell WinMobe, fine. But they need to make money and pay the bills as well.

      1. IronTed

        You don't understand

        Microsoft OWNS Nokia.

        1. admiraljkb

          re: You don't understand

          "Microsoft OWNS Nokia."

          That's not quite right, how's this?

          "Microsoft PWNS Nokia."

          Sorted! (OK, a little evil on my part... I'll be better next year as one of my resolutions)

      2. Lunatik


        I think you'll find that one of the clauses in Nokia's Faustian contract with MS will state that they are not allowed to bring out phones using any other 3rd party OS.

        1. Jim Coleman

          Nonsense, Nokia still sell symbian phones.

        2. admiraljkb


          Good point. Although normally there are some non-performance clauses in to allow the vendor to diversify if necessary. Although, I wouldn't count on Nokia having as good of contract attorneys than Microsoft...

    2. Gunda

      Or with the next version of the OS formerly known as Symbian...

      Nokia seems to be following the Nerdy Nutcase school of alphabetical order in OS names, the next version should start with C, after Anna and Belle. And since Anna and Belle are both feminine names, could Cunny be the next Nokia OS name?

    3. Lance 3

      The OMAP that the N9 has is better than the SnapDragon from Qualcomm. Don't just look at the Mhz but the entire package. The OMAP has functionality missing in the SnapDragon. If anything the 4xxx series would be a far better choice than anything from Qualcomm.

      MeeGo/Maemo is far better than Symbian.

  3. SteelVenom

    M$ keeps getting dumber and dumberer

    Like really. What's up with them? They keep releasing their products super late in a life cycle and then are all like "Oh yeah our stuff is so amazing and great and everyone will want it"

    When pretty much everyone I talk to is like "I hate MS. Their stuff sucks. I hate bing. I hate winpho7"

    Maybe M$ should like you know, push people to get their software out. But I guess if they did that it wouldn't work.

    Not that it's going to work anyway.

    1. Bob Vistakin

      Its called "doing a Sendo". They have to pretend to release phones they think will appear to do ok but know deep down are shit so they fail, thus dragging down their "partner" so they can grab their IP for a song when they lie there, battered, bleeding and dying. Its brutal, but when you're plumb out of innovation ideas and your developers are deserting in droves its your only option.

    2. Great Smell of Brut

      I rather like WP7. Its pretty fast, it's oddly stable, and strangely it just works.

      My other half has a Samsung Galaxy S2, which the Android enthusiasts seem to think is currently the mutts nuts. However at least once a day, despite being quite a calm and collected young lady, I hear my beloved uttering the phase "what the **** is it doing now?"

      I also think that Android would be a little more immune to Apple's patent trolling if it didn't look like Google ripped off iOS by having someone buy an iPhone and then describe its UI over a slightly knackered Skype connection.

      1. Robert E A Harvey

        Welcome to Great Smell of Brut

        Thanks for signing up just to say that.

        1. hplasm

          Ahh- Brut...

          Had it's heyday more than 20 years ago, much like Microsoft.

          How apt.

        2. Chemist

          Re:Thanks for signing up just to say that.

          Amazing he just happened to be passing really !

          Nicely spotted.

          1. Great Smell of Brut

            Re:Thanks for signing up just to say that.

            I know, my first post since signing up in 2009, must learn to lurk moar

        3. Alastair 7

          Well, I've been here for a while

          And I like my WP7 phone. Had a Nexus One, and upgraded to a Samsung Galaxy SII, realised that it solved none of my frustrations with Android and tried out the Focus S. Considerably lighter and thinner than the SII, and a far better experience all around.

          But I'm just a Microsoft shill, of course.

    3. admiraljkb

      "Like really. What's up with them? They keep releasing their products super late in a life cycle and then are all like "Oh yeah our stuff is so amazing and great and everyone will want it" "

      Well, I'm still waiting on proper Cairo release which was ahead of its time. It's been 20 years, the project was cancelled, but bits of it keep coming out anyway. :)

      I don't hate MS, but I'm not as fond of them as I was in the 90's and early 2K's. Most of what is causing an overall PR problem has been that Ballmer has proven himself to be quite unlikeable, with a complete lack of charisma which doesn't help my impression of the overall company any. He is the antithesis of Jobs.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward


      I happen to agree with your late release point regarding MS

      But really, the whole "M$" thing is somewhat immature as is the anti MS tone of your post

      Your point is perfectly valid and i completely agree but perhaps consider taking a somewhat more diplomatic / mature approch to your argument.

  4. ad47uk
    Thumb Down

    I am happy with my android phone, it may not be the fastest, but it does what I want and any phone that got NFC i will stay well clear of.

  5. Mikel
    Thumb Up

    All on plan then.

    Fantastic news.

  6. Chris 171

    hardware ready...

    Well yes, its called the N8/9 (as in what can be crammed into a shell)....

    I've kinda supported the merger in the past but the new software can't handle hard tech that's a year plus old? That's a big ball drop there...

  7. Adrian Challinor

    possible NFC support

    That would be NFC as in "No Freaking Chance" ???

    So, as an executive, I'm in a conference with other multinational executives and instead of exchanging a business card we touch phones??? I'm sorry, which dip stick thought this was a market winner. Guys? Come on now?

    I'm a tech geek and even I think this is stupid.

    1. Alastair 7

      "So, as an executive, I'm in a conference with other multinational executives and instead of exchanging a business card we touch phones???"

      Do you really think that's all NFC is for? Google Wallet allows you to pay for things over NFC instead of your credit card. It isn't a huge deal yet, but it will be.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Paying with stuff by Mobile

        I'm sorry, but paying for stuff by mobile is probably the single dumbest idea ever. Convergence has been the goal of phone companies now for at least 10 years. They want your phone to be your everything device. Phones nowadays are supposed to be your internet access, your MP3 player, your games device, your camera. Now they also want to be your wallet as well. The biggest problem I have is that the phone is generally not very good at all the other things, and you can't prioritise battery usage. If I'm carrying an MP3 player and a separate phone I can run the battery to the ground in my MP3 player without worrying about the phone not being usable. I know with NFC it is theoretically possible for the NFC chip to work for a few more transactions after your battery has died. But the most secure versions of NFC require you to enter a PIN before using them - you won't be entering a PIN on a touch screen phone with no battery.

        Just imagine how bad it is when a credit card is declined. The first time I had a card declined (due to a connection being down to Visa) I went out and made sure I had a choice of cards - one Visa, one MasterCard and one American Express. Also with cards, if the chip fails for some reason (or the NFC fails) you can swipe it. And if the mag strip fails, you can usually write or type the number in. I know with something like Google Wallet you can store more than one card in the phone, but if the NFC device has failed, or you are out of battery, you are screwed. Already I don't use the MP3 player on my phone because of the fear it will run the battery down and stop me making an important call. Do the phone manufacturers want me to stop using my phone for calling because I am concerned about being unable to pay for dinner, or pay for my tube ticket home.

        To be honest, it will end up going the same way as technologies like bluetooth. Used for a few niche things, but it won't revolutionise the way we pay for stuff.

  8. David Hicks

    Nobody cares

    It doesn't even matter that it's a day late and a dollar short compared to all the competition. Nobody cares about windows phone.

    I can't even think of what MS would have to do at this point to make people change their minds, but windows phone 7 is not even on the radar. Apple for quality and brand recognition, Android the same to a lesser extent, and lower end smartphones, Blackberry for enterprise or planning riots... that's about it. Unless MS do something spectacular to get people interested, they're out in the cold.

    I weep for poor old Nokia.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Nobody cares

      Don't weep for Nokia. They were paid something north of a billion dollars from Microsoft for access to their install base.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Yes but...

        ... Neither Nokia or MS consider a billion $ to be a large amount of money, both are worth many times that, obviously MS by another order of magnitude but still, 1 Billion is Dr Evil chump money.

        1. admiraljkb


          For Micosoft? You are right, $1B is almost a rounding error, but for Nokia $1B is a LOT of money in the here and now. Their market cap is down to $14B (down from $42B just a year ago), and is approaching a point where the assets might be worth more than the company itself *if* they can't stem the tide, QUICKLY. Otherwise, there won't be a Nokia this time next year, it'll get Ch7'd (or the Euro equivalent). It's hard to get the needed loans to manufacture and just your day to day operations when your stock descends into Junk status... No bank will touch you at that point. (I've worked for a company whose stock completely collapsed, things got interesting). An article I just ran into this morning from Trefis that isn't sounding promising either. Windows Phone 7's market share has actually gone down to 1.5% from 2.7% in Q3 2011, and Symbian also dropped by half again to 17%. To put in in perspective, as has been mentioned before, Linux Desktops have more market share than Winmobe 7 now. Nokia just failed to get is new phones adopted in its own stronghold of Europe, and is now trying in the US, where it almost (or did) disappeared entirely of the shelves last year? Without recent brand name recognition in the"ADD/Twitter" age, who in the US is going to buy the phone? Its almost like starting totally new again.

          Now I'm depressed. After having looked at today's reports on Nokia, the stock watchers/vultures have pretty much started the death clock on Nokia now, and the wolves are now circled waiting to rip it apart, with the vultures looking down on a snack when they're done. I liked Nokia in its heyday. I'll raise a glass to it, and wish it a happy 2012 all the same. May it fare better than it appears.

          1. Johnny Tremaine

            I agree that.....

            ....Nokia isn't long for this world.

            Their chances of having their Windows Phone, er, phones, turn into blow-out sales success stories in the States, a place where their brand name recognition is now virtually nil, is quite low, if they haven't managed to do the same in their own home market in Europe.

            I'll be curious to see them take their shot in the U.S., but if the just leaked roadmap is accurate, that roll-out will not only be exceedingly slow---no plans for 4G LTE until at least mid year, and no high res screen or multi core support until at least 4Q 2012---and will apparently focus on low end devices just this side of feature phone status.

            I think that Nokia's decision to knee-cap Symbian as early as they did may prove to be a fatal mistake for the future of the company.

  9. Anonymous Coward

    The least interesting leak in history

    There is nothing new here, move along. Win 8 mobile is dead before it starts. All technicals and feature/function aside. It is not as though consumers are saying "I would really love to have a Microsoft based phone, if only they could work out these issues." Consumers don't want a Microsoft phone because it is a Microsoft phone. What people will not admit is that smartphones are purchased more as fashion accessories than for any particular feature/function. Microsoft is seen as a maker of out-dated 1990s era office products.

  10. fishman


    Wasn't Mango going to push WP7 ahead of IOS and Android? By the time Tango comes out, it will be time for Android 4.1........

    1. Jim Coleman

      Depends on what you mean by "ahead". If you mean "higher customer satisfaction", "more awards", "faster-growing marketplace" then yeah, it is "ahead". If you mean "sales" then no, it isn't. But then again, the biggest selling car of all time is the Toyota Corolla.

      I'll leave that thought with you.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward


        Here is another thought: Most of the people slagging off Windows Phone here are saying that it's not used by many people, therefore it's rubbish. Exactly the same argument that the same people discount as irellivant when applied to Linux on the desktop.

        The argument is irrelivant, userbase is not usually a pointer to quality of a product. Look at the readership of the Sun compared to the readership of Private Eye or The Times or The Guardian.

      2. Steve Knox

        @Jim Coleman

        ' If you mean "higher customer satisfaction", "more awards", "faster-growing marketplace" then yeah, it is "ahead".'

        [Citation Needed]

  11. Dirk Vandenheuvel

    Dual core?

    Let me know when dual core mobile phones offer something extra.

    1. Ru

      Oh, so cynical!

      They allow semicompetent UI (or UX, as they're apparently called these days) devs to continue to write swooshy slidy interfaces without worrying about the fact that their grievously unoptimised eye-candy is crippling the usefulness of the hardware. By way of a bonus, it stimulates the economy by requiring you to charge up twice as often.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      They already offer 1080p video recording, faster web page rendering and better gaming.

  12. keitai

    Meanwhile BADA outsells microsoft.

    Despite all the media attention and multitude of people claiming they like Windows phone, it remains a dog in sales. It has a market share of 2%, and still hasn't overtaken the old windows mobile. Aven things like BADA sell better.

    Seriously, why the media attention for such a marginal player?

    1. Jim Coleman

      Here's why

      Multiple awards for best mobile OS of 2011

      An app store that reached 50,000 apps faster than Android did

      The top three rated contract phones on are all Windows Phones

      In fact, the only metric by which WP7 is lagging is sales, but that will come.

      Does that answer your question? Would you like a list of the awards WP7 has won?

      1. Robert E A Harvey


        "Titanic" got Oscars. Didn't stop it being a crap film. Come to that "Avatar" got oscars despite having no sensible story line at all, apart from "Wheeee..." And don't let me get all Kermode over "Pirates of the Carribean"...

        1. Jim Coleman
          Thumb Down

          Conversely, sales don't stop something being crap either. Titanic was the highest- grossing movie and, as you say, it was shite.

          What was your point again?

          1. Robert E A Harvey


            That there is no point in trotting out awards as any arguement at all.

            1. Jim Coleman

              Why not? A lot of them are voted for by the phone buying public. Windows Phones hold the top three slots on by review rating as well.

              1. Anonymous Coward


                As there are very few GENUINE WP7 users, certainly not enough to vote en-masse and get to the top of polls (unless it's a poll hosted on some shill site like

      2. Steve Knox

        @Jim Coleman

        "The top three rated contract phones on are all Windows Phones"

        The top three rated unlocked phones on are all Android Phones. ratings are not a reliable measure of the quality of a phone OS. They are not dependent upon a consistently applied metric (i.e, your 4 star rating doesn't mean the same thing as my 4 star rating) and there is precious little Amazon can do to ensure that the reviews are honest.

        Beyond about 1,000 apps, size of app store is equally meaningless-- there are at best a few dozen useful apps (not already bundled with the OS) in any app store; the rest are all toys, games, marketing tools, or spyware.

        As for awards, yes I'd love to see your list of awards, including source and testing methodology, please.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward


      Bada sells on CHEAP phones, not because it's any good. Like everything cheap sales volume does not equate to profits, quality or any other metric, it sold because it was cheap, that's it.

      Windows Phone 7 actually has a lot of merit and neither of the others is perfect is it? Why doesn't it sell more is a difficult question, but there is great potential there. Unfortunately there is a large segment of the tech (or like to think they are tech) sphere that childishly hate Microsoft purely because it is Microsoft (f&&k knows why, they've done a lot to advance the industry, jealousy over success perhaps?). Bottom line is MS have been so successful because many of their products are actually reasonably good, they get a job done and they have cultivated a productive ecosystem in x86, there is no reason to think they can't do the same again with phones given time.

      PS. I am a Linux AND Windows Systems Admin (equally), I do both because they both have a role in practical IT infrastructure, I am no fanboy, I'm a realist.

      1. JuniorEbuka

        Good point well made... Tired of people childishly bashing WP7. I'm sure it is very good.

        The only reason I'm not trying it is because I'm so immersed in the Google universe - it's too much hassle to change direction now. Google would have to do something really stupid to make me change.

        That's the problem MS faces....

        1. Jim Coleman

          There is a difference between trying it and switching over to it.

      2. Bob Vistakin

        "Advance the rest of of the industry". Well, their contribution to the advancement of the mobile industry is to extort $5 per handset from them - something these asshole apologists NEVER address in topics like this yet is OBVIOUSLY the main reason everyone detests them.

        Prediction for 2012: It continues as now. No WP7 sales except to those they force to buy from them, the Nokia partnership becomes an embarrassing failure with the great public not even aware of whatever garbage m$ churn out in their desperate attempt to gain relevance.

        They still don't get it. If the person who bought the WP7 phone pulled it out in a pub everyone around would laugh at them. Its a joke, It has no apps. It has no future. It would have struggled had it been launched 3 years ago. Brining it out now, with a fraction of the features of the current Androids and iPhones and even less market awareness is a whole new kind of fail for which a word hasn't been coined yet.

        1. Great Smell of Brut

          " If the person who bought the WP7 phone pulled it out in a pub everyone around would laugh at them"

          Well, it is only 3.8 inch

    3. Anonymous Coward

      Quite simply

      It's Microsoft, and no website can afford to upset them, however crappy their hardware products might be.

      You upset Microsoft, and all of a sudden all your advertising revenue dries up.

      Coincidently, of course, Microsoft sponsored the El-Reg 2010 hardware awards, and guess what won... Kinect.... say no more....

      Nobody at any of these websites work for free, they all rely on a slice of the advertising pie, and they are all basically pens for hire.

  13. NotInventedHere

    You may not like it, but others certainly do!

    Well I'm over the moon with my Windows Phone. And my wife just got one after an having been stuck with an Android phone for the last two years, and she's loving hers too. You naysayers can slag it off all you like, but the truth is, it's a lovely product. Perhaps you should try using one before disregarding it. And it really doesn't need battery-draining dual core processors to make it run smoothly like Android does.

    1. PaulR79

      FUD about dual-core, battery draining and Android

      Look, I have a single core Android phone with a pathetic battery (1230mAh) but it runs smooth all the time. I know there are bad phones out there and some with awful customisations but a vanilla Android will run smoothly and very happily on a single core phone. A dual-core handset will not drain more battery and, if anything, should use less battery overall.

      I don't count Sense as an awful customisation even if others do. It gave Android the first useful copy and paste and adds a lot to stock Android but I know it isn't for everyone.

      Last point to note is that I have a Windows Phone 7 (Samsung Omnia 7) and while it's smooth in use and I quite like it the battery life is somehow less even with a larger battery than my Android phone (Desire HD) - 1500mAh to 1230mAh. Both are a year old yet less than an hour after I took it off charge the Omnia was showing 6% battery gone and I'd barely used it.

      I will never understand why people feel the need to put something down or spread FUD.

    2. blondie101

      re: You may not like it, but others certainly do!

      Whether WP is a good product or not is not the discussion, WP is a niche and the masses just don't care. Time is changing.

      1. Jim Coleman

        WP is a niche? So are Macs then.

        1. blondie101

          yep, you're absolute right. Macs are a niche. You can hardly state Macs dominate the desktop market, do you?

          1. Jim Coleman

            His point was we should disregard WP7 because it's niche. I was simply illustrating that a Mac is also a niche product, which by his logic, should therefore also be disregarded. You completely missed that.

      2. Atonnis

        The masses aren't even aware yet...

        Just a year after release and WP7 hasn't yet gotten the recognition is deserves - which is about right.

        Let's face it, Android has been out for years and only this last year has it gained any traction in the public market - most people still have absolutely no idea what Android is - they just buy a phone that 'does texts, emails and PMs'.

        iOS was dreadful until the 3GS came out - which I believe took a good couple of years+? The first two iPhones were crap, but the 3rd was the first sign of Apple actually starting to create a usable product.

        WP7 is gaining some small awareness, and it will get more as those who get them and are happy with them (and the rate of user satisfaction that I generally hear is wayyyyyy more than the satisfaction of the Android userbase) spread the word around. My fiancee just got one and at first she was all thumbs, then after a couple of days she was spouting on about how awesome the phone is.

        I like ICS - I hate to admit, since Google is the scummiest POS company I know of, but I'll give it it's due, and Android will keep selling like hot cakes for a while...but once the masses start to awaken to easily-reachable data, private emails that aren't scanned for ads, and a flowing, everything-in-one-place line-of-thinking, they'll be looking for WP7.

        But, let's face it - it's all down to marketing, not the product, and if MS don't pull their fingers out and start buying off phone shop owners and sales managers their staff aren't going to get trained or given MS phones, and so the shops won't put them out front.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward


      you do realise that you cant say that kind of thing here?

      i completely agree with you tho but we must remain quiet if you dont want to get bombed with down votes/

      Its funny, im obviously too stupid to use Android and actually like it, but i have both of them on this same device for learning reasons, so its fair reasoning that i might have a good understanding about how both of them function without differences in hardware getting in the way, and dispite having a good head start android just isnt what i want, i want a phone that works out of the box, with extras that work out of the box. If i want a computer in my pocket id reinstall Windows Mobile again, and i do still use WM on a different device, WP7 is a phone, not a pocket pc, not a android or ios device, its a phone!

      I dont understand this constant need of android users to belittle WP users, do they not have anything else to do, like work perhaps? or maybe i should start talking about things too, like malware or perhaps trully CRAP performance on devices that are so low end market they are barely better than a calculator, or maybe i should talk about inter-version app compatibilty, or OS upgrades, or BT profile support, i could go on but im not, because thats unfair to cherry pick bad points, WP7 Android and iOS are NOT perfect, none of them are, if you like one OS over another then GOOD FOR YOU, i trully hope your happy, i also hope you dont become a victim to vendor lockin because the only person to lose out in such cases is you,

      Each to their own.

      You know, if you lot did this amount of slagging off in real life, say in a work place to complete strangers or infact even people you know, you honestly think they would continue to give you the time of day let alone anything else?

      Net Anonymity is not an excuse

  14. John McGhie

    It's ALREADY low end

    The reason WinPho is not on my radar is that it's already low-end. Nothing currently released performs well enough to make me update from my C905. Oh, it's also slow and ugly with crappy battery life and no serious apps or music. But mainly: it's simply not good enough. And their marketing plan is to make it *worse*. Move over, Ballmer, time to give someone who can make products a go...

    1. Jim Coleman

      What's that rustling noise? It's the sound of your credibility flying out the window.

      Seriously. If you think WP7 is "slow and ugly with crappy battery life and no serious apps or music" then I'd suggest you go try a Windows Phone for yourself or else go to an optician and get your eyes tested, because the reviews online, and the opinions of users, are counter to all those assertions. It is lightning quick with no lag, and the interface has been lauded as the new mobile paradigm which makes iOS and Android look tired and old.

      Seriously, your MS hatred is ridiculous and you're just making yourself look like a troll or an Apple / Google employee.

      1. Paul Shirley

        @Jim Coleman: shiny&new != any good

        WP7 may be fast but my dirt cheap Xperia is more than fast enough and my wife doesn't play enough demanding games to complain about her even cheaper OSF. When will you lot learn boasting about WP7's speed doesn't impress the rest of us!

        In my opinion WP7 is fugly as hell and without monopoly control to force everyone to use it I'm never going to start liking it. I don't care how much other people like it, I don't. Unlike Android, as a user I can't replace or fix the things I hate and Microsoft won't rethink that fugly tiles UI unless WP7 then WP8 completely fails in the market.

        Every time I see the list of selling points for WP7 it's a list of things I've already tried and either didn't like or didn't match the way I use my phone. And Microsoft won't let me fix those choices. A tired and old UI beats any shiny new UI *that doesn't do what I want or need*.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward


          You've never actually used one have you?

          The only people that I've heard say that it's a bad user experience/interface are people who haven't used one. I know many people who've used one and say it's not for them, but they don't actually go off on extended ill informed rants.

          1. PeteA

            I've used one

            It was crap.

            Although my Android phone isn't perfect, and nor are my colleagues iPhones, they're all useable. Trying WP7 in a shop (before I chose Android, btw) was a complete WTF? experience, whereas trying the other two was a "Oh, OK, I see how that works...".

            Incidentally, none of the emails I get on my Xperia are scanned by anyone, because I use my own mail infrastructure thank-you-very-much. The platform made that very easy to achieve.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              @Pete A

              I don't believe you. If you didn't like the UI that's fine, just say so, many people don't like many UIs for differing reasons. Personally, I have never found a UI without some useful or interesting features, even if I don't like the thing as a whole. Claiming you couldn't work out how it works or didn't understand it is just pathetic, it's a very nicely thought through UI and is immediately obvious to new users. I have heard many people who don't like it that much, but no-one - including all the linux die-hards that I work with, who all use Android - who hasn't been able to work out how it works at their first glance.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            I had one....

            The Dell Venue Pro. And it was useless.

            The Bluetooth didn't work properly (so distorted it was useless) it failed to connect to Wireless networks, it made calls of its own volition, there was a distinct lack of apps for it, the look-and-feel was dull and boring and it was tethered, so was unusable for one of its main purposes as a Bluetooth modem.

            There is absolutely no chance of me going back to a Windows phone. I'd rather my balls be ripped off and fried in battery acid.

      2. Bob Vistakin

        I just love the idea

        someone thinks cutting

        words off half way

        across the screen is a

        a whole new mobile

        paradigm which for

        some inexplicable

        reason no other phone

        used before.

        Sigh. Here's that paragraph for WP7 users:

        I just




        a who





        1. The lone lurker

          @ Bob

          Have you tried it? or are you basing this opinion only on screenshots?

          The paradigm is that the mobile screen is in effect a window into information that is too large to view. Your butchered sentence makes no sense when you realise that the whole sentence in WP7 would be visible simply by scrolling sideways. the lack of submenus in WP7 is refreshing!

          I was sceptical until I bought an HTC Titan (4.7 inch screen with 2.5 - 3 days use between charges - Amazing.) after two years of Android. There's no way I'd go back now - Everything just works. I've not found an app yet that I've needed that hasn't been present, there is however, a lack of fart apps wich must also mean it's rubbish right?

          1. Paul Shirley

            @lone lurker

            "the whole sentence in WP7 would be visible simply by scrolling sideways"

            That is a DEFECT not an advantage. Reflowing to fit the screen width is a good usability feature, clipping it is a fashion statement. I'll choose the phone that gets the UI right before trying to look good.

            That neatly sums up what's wrong with both WP7 *and* the mix of paid and genuine WP7 supporters praising every defective feature in it. Trying to pass defects off as selling points shows just how out of touch with reality the whole WP7 faction is.

  15. min

    MS wants to kill Nokia. then obviously pick off the carrion it desires. shimples.

    not giving the techs what they want is just the beginning of what will probably end up being some really nasty decisions at the beleaguered Finnish joint.

    and if someone looks at their phone wondering what the **** it is is usually them and not the phone that needs testing and optimisation.

    having tried out the lumia (gf wanted it), i reckon it would be ok for her. she did not like the UI. she went and got an Apple 4$ instead. if Nokia are going to lure the lay buyer, they're going to have to do a lot better; they're certainly up against the wall with the tech crowd.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Pardon? Did you understand the implications of your silly statement?

      "and if someone looks at their phone wondering what the **** it is is usually them and not the phone that needs testing and optimisation."

      I thought these devices were made for people; so if normal people find a device hard, confusing or even just awkward to use, the device designer is at fault, not the user.

      Still, one needs to be a good engineer and designer to know and understand that. Bad ones just blame the user and wonder why, sooner or later, their products and then they themselves fail.

      Linux is a case in point (of which Android is a semi-closed variant): no attention to interface design for the majority of punters so even this free operating system fails to dislodge either Windows or OS X from the mainstream market.

    2. Jim Coleman

      What makes you think Microsoft wants to kill Nokia? Really, I'm interested.

      1. Robert E A Harvey

        I don't think M$ wants to kill Nokia. They need Nokia to build and sell WP7 phones.

        1. Jim Coleman
          Thumb Up


          1. admiraljkb

            @Jim Coleman

            Hey guys, I hate to interrupt the "your peanut butter is in my chocolate" and vice versa arguments, but it is big picture time. :)

            Microsoft doesn't *NEED* Nokia at all for Winmobe7 to sell and eventually turn a profit. In fact the opposite argument could be made that Microsoft might now need Nokia out of the way because it is now wasting MS resources to try and help them get out product that isn't going to sell. Microsoft does however need Samsung (and possibly HTC as well). It is Samsung that is selling Winmobes into the US market already with established sales channels, and is now a much bigger brand in the US and Asia. Nokia on the other hand? I just looked and Nokia had indeed exited the US market entirely, and won't be able to easily get market share from a US market that has already forgotten about it. The only carrier that had any Nokia on its website was T-Mobile, and that was a Lumia that was "coming soon".

            Here's another thing to contemplate for Nokia's demise - the latest market figures are indicating that Winmobe actually lost half its market share in a quarter and is down to 1.5% while Android continues a relentless march pulling marketshare from nearly everywhere now. Samsung's Android profits means it can afford to "toy" around with Winmobe until it gets better, simply as a contingency plan while not having to turn a profit. Every company needs some losses to show for tax time, so Winmobe may have found a niche in Samsung's product lineup. :) Samsung maintains a large market presence in the US (as well as manufacturing) and has been the one carrying the Winmobe torch the whole time so far. Nokia disappeared for a year and doesn't have any US presence now. Business is business, its a dog eat dog world, etc etc. Besides, Samsung has more experience with Windows Phone than Nokia so why wouldn't MS still be happy if Nokia *bytes* it? Samsung has definitely been the big winner from Nokia's complete collapse last year. And chomped into HTC's market share to boot.

            After contemplating the last year, and actions taken on all sides - Truthfully, the theory that MS/Elop is intentionally tanking Nokia to grab intellectual property/patents on the cheap is sound on the surface, in spite of it sounding "tinfoil hat time". Maybe its true, maybe it isn't, I don't know, but taking your company's products off the shelves for a year because something "better is coming" is a surefire way to go bankrupt. How many people remember Osborne Computing for the best case in point? I can't believe Elop is incompetent enough to repeat nearly the same error nearly 30 years later, so all I'm left with at that point is that what is being done to Nokia was wanton and malicious by Ballmer and Elop.

      2. Bob Vistakin

        @Jim Here you go, explained very nicely on this very site

        Beware. What m$ did to Sendo is nasty, but it will explain why they are doing it again to Nokia:

  16. shane fitzgerald

    Remove two of the biggest barriers

    Drop the words microsoft and windows from the name of the phone os.

    People see these two words and all they think of its slow bootup, 90's style OS, BSOD, stuck in work etc etc.

    maybe they should call it xbox phone or xphone or anything other than m$ and windows. It doesn't even have windows it has tiles FFS!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward


      The biggest barriers for WP is a competitor who has a large chunk of its users base brain washed in to thinking that anything other than their device is utter crap.

      No seriously, WPs biggest issue is mostly down to FUD, miss information and general miss understandings, its a very different experience, it takes a wee bit of getting used to, i give you that, but everyone i know who has actually spent more that a couple of min in a shop has actually really liked it

      MS as a lot to answer for, i give you that too, its PR is crap, not helped by its CEO and its marketing is crap, but one things for sure, WP is a good phone if you give it a chance, its not an iphone or android device, so dont compare it to one, its a windows phone

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @Anon 1024

    Microsoft may have successes in certain markets, but it is still clueless in the mobile phone market.

    Don't attribute to jealousy or consumer irrationality to what it is actually: Microsoft's incompetence.

    Read the non- MSFT astroturfer comments here:

    Microsoft reneged on KIN, backstabbed Sendo, ruined Skype after its acquisition. The Metro UI is still unintuitive.

    And you expect Microsoft to carve out the 'third ecosystem' with that kind of track record?

    Won't happen.

    1. Dave's Jubblies

      Excuse me, just how has MS 'ruined' skype after it's purchase? It's only just gone through approval, they couldn't do ANYTHING with it in that time... so what has changed? I haven't seen anything?

      Metro UI #unintuitive'? I think you may have to turn thre phone on, or remove your gloves, as everyone else thinks it's the most intuitive ui ever on a smart phone.

      Or are you comparing it to Android? With it's millions of different interfaces, no standard design or user style...

      Yeah, that must be it...

      Again, troll if you will, but at least back it up with supportable argument.

      1. Robert E A Harvey

        I was recently in the Philippines, where Skype is a way of life for families talking to fathers working abroad. I have heard a lot of complaints about bad audio, dropped connections, and not being able to make video calls any more.

        Skype is having problems. I doubt they are caused by M$ but they might be caused by being taken over. I wonder if it is now harder to get money to get new hardware into the servers?

        1. Dave's Jubblies

          In call skype is p2p... the skype servers only act as 'connectors', once up and running the connection is direct.

          If anyone has an issue in call, then I suspect that it is down to their or other party's connection.

          I'm not defending MS with skype, merely pointing out that they simply have had any chance to screw it up yet...

  18. Richard Plinston

    The next step, at the end of 2012 ....

    Once again Microsoft fails in marketing WP7.

    Basically this is saying "forget about the current stuff, just wait until next year's model". They have done this repeatedly. WM6.5 was known to be just a 'fill in' until 7. When 7 came out with many shortfalls the message was 'wait for 7.1'. Then Mango was going to be where it was at, so wait for that. With Nokia it was 'don't buy any current phones, we will have WP7 by Xmas'. Then they announced the 800 and another, but you will have to wait for that.

    Now they will have dual core and better graphics (essential for bragging rights) in a year's time. The current lot is inferior, so just you wait.

    1. Dave's Jubblies


      Just, what?

      Are you saying that microsoft are unique in saying that their next product will be better than the current one?

      When wp7 came out, and people slated it for it's shortcomings, they said it would be fixed in the next version.

      the vast majority were. But still, some shortcomings exist, so they say that they will appear in future versions.

      Are apple or google any different? Better phones, computers, consoles cars, printers, tables, lights, teapots, taps, carpets come along all the time.

      As for your last paragraph, when did MS say that? In fact, they have gone out of their way to say the opposite, seeing as they make great strangth of not needing dual core for this os.

      Other than that, great post.

      1. Richard Plinston

        > Are you saying that microsoft are unique in saying that their next

        > product will be better than the current one?

        No. The point is that for WP7 they have been saying that almost as soon as the current product has come out. This has stopped those looking at the product because it is obsolete already. Would you buy an 800 knowing that 'any day now' it will be dumped and replaced by a dual-core, HD capable phone. Why not buy an Android that is there now.

        > when did MS say that?

        In the article it has: """Not getting support for HD and multi-core processors for an extra year ..."""

        AFAIK, WP7 does not do enough multi-tasking to warrant dual-core, and may not even support dual-core at present. Certainly there is restriction on using these:

        AFAIK, WP7 only does two screen resolutions: 480x160 and 800x480. HD video has to be re-encoded and has poor quality, apparently.

        WP7 just does not have anything that gives it 'bragging rights', but just wait another year and you will be able to buy what is available now, or soon, from others.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward


          Have you heard of the developers dilema?

          Release v1 of the product when there are still bits to do, but you can sell a not 100% product and use the money to fund development of the extra features. Or, wait until you've finished every feature and have a 100% complete product, but you may have gone bust by then.

          Personally I'm glad I had NT4, with all its problems, and didn't have to wait for 2008 to be finished before I got the product. I'm glad I had Slackware in the early 90s before there was Fedora 15 the other day.

          1. admiraljkb

            @ AC 31st December 2011 17:16 GMT

            Umm, in this case it isn't a version 1 product. It is a version 7 product. But otherwise your point is valid. The issue is that the competitors in the marketplace have mature product on the shelves NOW and are putting even cooler stuff out SOON. 2 years ago MS had mature product on the shelves and shelved it for some the "Unobtanium 7000" which was feature-wise a step backwards from version 6. From the sound of it, it'll be another year or so for them to get back to where they were 2 years ago. But by that time, the competion will have something "even cooler". Unless Apple and Google make a major misstep (and that is a distinct possibility), and MS does something amazing at the exact same moment its competitors falter like it did with DOS, Windows Office, I don't see Winmobe 7 as anything other than the Linux based Netbook of the phone industry. Magic 8 ball keeps coming up "Try again later".

            BTW - Trivial triviality - NT4's Ring0 driver model (through Server 2003) really didn't work well overall for servers stability (it was geared for workstations), hence the essential reversion to NT3.x's Ring3 model again in Server 2008. :)

    2. admiraljkb

      @Richard Plinston

      Bingo on the marketing squishiness.... Course by the time Winmobe gets dual core, the Android phones will be quads with desktop quality gpus to boot...

      BTW - I've been in this biz too long. WP7 still means WordPerfect 7 to me. :)

  19. Stan P

    Why did Nokia go with Microsoft?

    Symbian was the best untill....

  20. toadwarrior

    Microsoft should leave the mobile market

    Seriously, when are they going to realise they suck at it and no one wants a Windows phone.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    no one wants it?

    How can you say that presumably with a straight face?

    Windows Mobile is still used to this day all over the world, i very much doubt the usage figures include all the business uses out of it, i do think MS made a mistake dropping WM altogether but i do understand why.

    you know,if we could look in to the future tomorrow, say 10 years from now, i wouldnt have guessed what device would be king of the hill, but i can tell you what wont be. Iphones, Androids and Windows Phones. For all the slagging, mostly coming from Android users, there will come a day where your device isnt percieved to be the best, and on that day i hope you dont get slagged off as much as you lot are doing to WP.

    Intelligent debate is one thing but so far ive not seen anything that doesnt come across as fanboy cock fighting FUD

    1. admiraljkb


      "there will come a day where your device isnt percieved to be the best,"

      Yep. I was on Winmobe and its previous incarnations from the late 90's. It was the best of its era, and then from 2003 forward, it was stagnant and stale. *Smart* MBA Wall St types kept saying that nobody wanted the devices anymore, so R&D stopped... However, Winmobe was an open environment, and I stuck on it til the next open environment was good enough. That was Android. It still is THE platform for right now. Next year it may not be THE platform. Don't get too attached, because the dominance (of whatever product) will end. I always am keeping my eyes open for whats next, and experiment with things constantly to check it out.

      I think a lot of what you are seeing, is the "Gamer speak" trash talk leaking out into much of these threads. Seriously, a lot of the Android fans aren't really that devoted, and are more pragmatic. They'll switch tomorrow if something better (while still being open) comes out. But it's the best right now by a long shot (for my requirements and many other people's requirements).

      BTW - The winmobe that is still used though all over the world, is Winmobe 6 (which in spite of being badly received, isn't that bad when not bloated up by a carrier until it doesn't run). I prefer Winmobe6.5 to 7. But I prefer CyanogenMod7.1 to Winmobe 6.5, with NO contest whatsoever. :) Winmobe 7's market share dropped by half last quarter to 1.5% instead of growing to take over from it's older sibling. 7's headed the wrong direction.

      What I do want is the awesome handwriting recognition that I had on my last Winmobe phone. That was ONE thing that allowed me not to have to carry a laptop much of the time, since I could take notes on the fly anywhere at a good clip too without having to break out a laptop or pad of paper to get lost later. If any platform got that back on it, I'd consider switching immediately.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward


        Liked! Finally we have intelligent debate, although its not really a debate when we agree

        I, like your self, have a WM background, and still do, for the reasons you mentioned. Personally i decided to go with WP for my "phone" as it suited my needs. All OSs have bad points and im not going to slag them off, but this is what i dont understand, you want to use Android, you believe thats whats best for you, is it perfect, no, does it have flaws, yes, but im not going to start bitching about it, saying your wrong and trying to convice everyone that its better than everone else.

        I wouldnt do that for the simple fact that, , WP suites my needs, is it perfect, no, does it have flaws, yes.

        Its crazy, its almost like mob mentaility, someone sparks up and off it goes, i mean look at the down votes on this page, some of them are against posts that are 100% factual with zero opinion, but because they nudge on the side on MS it gets bombed?!

        1. admiraljkb


          A toast! :)

          I've jacked with WM7 to recognize it is NOT for me, and that was well before I got past the first couple of screens. Oddly enough, Android is less jarring coming from a WM background for me. Android for me continues the WM6 lineage on XDA, and is open for custom roms tuned more for my needs, versus what the carrier, manufacturer, or OS supplier *think* I want. I like being able to control the device myself, secure it, add what I want, and make it look the way I want as well. I've been like that since DOS/Win3.0 trying alternative shells and such like 4DOS, 4OS2, Norton Commander, Norton Desktop, DR-DOS, etc etc... So no need to stop now (as I'm running GoLauncherEX on the phone). :) I like to be able to heavily customize if that doesn't show, and if the platform is open (or even relatively open like the older WM6) then you can workaround some of the issues that annoy you on the device rather than having to wait for an update. Course, some people's flaws are other people's features too...

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Windows Phone 7

    From the makers of WinCE :)

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