After hack nightmare, Sony bars lawsuits with new TOS After getting the pants sued off it for security breaches that exposed personal information connected to more than 100 million online accounts, Sony is requiring subscribers to waive their right to wage class-action lawsuits for almost any reason. Sony dropped the bombshell in an updated terms of service and user agreement (PDF …
I believe in California at least, such clauses in click through EULA's were demed to be unconstitutional and thus it wouldnt apply here. Which is especially amusing since the EULA says that it has to be served in California and thus would mean it would need to be filed in California which means it would come under the California constitution. But I would imagine Sony would have thought of that first right? Surely? Okay maybe not.
As this is standard legal speak, infact other companies use the same wording, but guess what, nobody is beating them up....
www.t-mobile.com/Templates/Popup.aspx?PAsset=Ftr_Ftr_TermsAndConditions&print=true
Aren't you embarrased how easilly you can be manipulated by a bogus news story? Even Paris didn't fall for this tripe.
If they gave more than a seconds empathetic thought to their customers on this issue, they would have killed this idea before it got out to the press.
This is a reaction by very stupid business people at Sony to a few events that very stupid business people at Sony mishandled:
A) they got hacked. B) they let the world know about it. C) they screw their customers over D) they destroyed data and evidence. E) they do this which will F) guarantee that they get hacked again and soon. Repeatedly.
Its like watching a good old friend descend into terminal drug abuse. There is no way this ends well.....
the ignorant herd would vote with their feet rather than clicking agree ...
but they won't - what are human rights compared to the ability to stream a B list movie you're not that interested in seeing in the 48 hour window in which it's available for the same price as a circle of obsolete plastic that you could leave in a corner for years but lend, with little risk of being dragged before the courts, to any interested party in a few years time.
The point , as ever, though is they screwed up big time and you have to pay.
The new ToS states that you can't sue in court, an you agree to binding arbitration. So you still retain your legal rights.
The only thing that could be of concern is that Sony gets to pick the arbitrator. If their pet arbitrator isn't fair and impartial.... Then it's back to he courts and class action. However that takes time and you have to show a history or pattern...
The truth is that only the lawyers win in a class action, not the plaintiffs so this change in ToS isn't that bad. Don't like it? Walk away.....
1. This is contract law, not human rights.
2. You could sue them no matter what the EULA says but the judge might wonder why you didn't go to arbitration
3. You could also file a complaint through the small claims court
4. The EULA applies to the US not Australia
5. It's explicitly targeted at class action suits
6. It's based on existing US arbitration law
7. Even under arbitration you would still be represented by a lawyer
I think the primary target is to stave off class action suits. I would be surprised if classactions brought from the PSN hacking / outage would result in any substantial damages being awarded anyway. Consumers will be fobbed off with a $10 PSN voucher or similar and the lawyers will walk off with millions in cash.
So you have a constitutional clause in Australia that prohibits you from signing away certain inalienable rights? That's a really good thing, especially because "inalienable" means that you can't sign them away (and Constitutional rights are by definition inalienable.) So your statement actually means that in Australia, according to the constitution, you can't away rights that you can't sign away.
Clever.
Ve-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-ery clever.
A clear law needs to be writen on the book that basically states "Compagnies cannot make you sign your soul away or give away your rights in exchange for anything"
Having your ass dragged in court when you make a foul as bad as 1: obtaining too much information you don't really need and then 2: not securing it properly, then you deserve what you get and you shouldn't be allowed to force people to give you a get out of jail free card.
Yup, it's clause 11 sub B, printed in 6 point white on a white background.
I have an old PS/3. Never been on the game network, and only updated until they decided to remove the "Other OS" option - which it still has. It sort of dates the last moment I ever bought anything from Sony.
I understand that a company needs to make money. However, the way Sony does it doesn't agree with my wants as a consumer and my wants for business. So out they go. Simple.
I years on the Internet have taught that shouty-caps paragraphs never have anything useful to say, so I always skip them, whether they're in a blog or an EULA. Since I don't read that crap, there is no "meeting of minds" and I can't be bound by it.
Of course I don't use Sony products anyway.
There is also some good research to show that all-caps is quite hard to read. I certainly find myself glossing over all-caps without taking it in.
Has to do with a words shape contrast being much lower. It feels to me that using caps in an EULA is akin to writing it in as small a font as possible.
The whole system of EULAs seem to become more and more intrusive and unbalanced as time goes on - surely there's a point where claims like 'you can't sue us in a class action', when violating... well... basic human rights in most democracies should be grounds for a class action iteself.
Even if it did form part of a contract, any clause in a contract / EULA term that tries to restrict your legal rights is automatically null and void. The lawyers sneak them in anyway, presumably as a way of upping the barriers to taking their company to court or dragging out any court action. Unenforceable clauses are so common that most contracts have clauses that state in the event any part of this contract is deemed unenforceable/inapplicable etc, then only that clause 'dies' and the rest of the contract remains in place.
Maybe it's time we start by attaching EULAs to our money? Something akin to this:
BY ACCEPTING THIS MONETARY UNIT AS PAYMENT FOR SERVICES OR PRODUCTS RENDERED, YOU REVOKE YOUR PROTECTION FROM VIOLENCE OR DEATH UNDER THE LAW, SHOULD YOUR SERVICE OR PRODUCT BE OF UNSATISFACTORY QUALITY
should do it, methinks.
Note that I'm in general skeptical of all corporations headquartered in the USA, since they usually have the moral backbone of damp gingerbread.
//Svein
There are group actions or multi-party claims in UK law which permit multiple claims against a defendant to be grouped into a single action. However class actions where one party or a group of parties may sue as a representative of a larger class, including absent or unidentified parties, are not allowed.
Basically in the UK you must opt into a group action (unless the court itself combines your case with others.) This does not stop a US lawyer from implicitly including UK citizens in a class action filed in the USA.
If they are pre-emptively avoiding getting taken to court when they release user information again, that seems to imply that they are planning to do it again. Or at least not bothering to put in reliable defences against doing it again.
I wonder if they could be charged with conspiring to do so? Since they are obviously preparing for it?
That **you** didnt agree to the terms of the contract and so are not bound? Not sure on that one as INAL. Also of interest is that G4 had a lawyer look at the EULA and their opinion was that it couldnt be binding in California. So what we end up with is a legal agreement that lawyers are going to fight over. Looks like Sony just put more $$$ in the hands of the legal profession.
By requiring that the customer opt-out from the forced arbitration requirement, Sony is taking an out where they can say "What Letter?". The only way that you can show that you attempted to contact them via SnailMail is to send the letter Certified (or Registered) with a Return Receipt Request. Ordinary mail is too easy to deny having received. BTW: If such a letter delivery is rejected by the addressee, so long as the returned envelope is left sealed it is legal service and delivery. In fact the returned sealed envelope is even better than one that was signed for since it eliminates the claim that there was no enclosure or it was blank paper (not relevant in this case but only in the general case).
April 29th 2010, some ruddy b---- named Cecil Lee thought it would be funny to use my e-mail address to sign up for the PlayStation Network.
And after a while, after having received at least a dozen e-mails from this network, I must say I am impressed.
There is no "unsubscribe" link handy. It seems I must sign in using the account created.
Ah, but isn't there a "forgot password" function? Yes, press this and you are met with "The server is currently down for maintenance".
On the plus side, I am always up to date with all news concerning the Playstation Network, change of policies and whatnot. Too bad I do not own any Sony devices, except for a small handheld video camera. Maybe it will play the latest PS3 games?
I dunno about the rest of you but I'm just sick of it all now. I hardly play any games on the damn thing anymore, I don't want an xbox either. Think I am just gonna give up on games full stop and stick to activities that don't require me to sign away my life. wonder if I can get a Blu ray player that is not bogged down with legal crap or should I get my video recorder back out of the loft....
http://www.metro.co.uk/tech/games/875898-sony-denies-threatening-psn-ban-no-tos-change-planned-for-europe
"What it failed to say though is that the changes in the terms of service (TOS) only applies to America and even then nobody's getting banned from PlayStation Network if they choose to opt out. "
Who is stupid enough to buy a game console and add his real personal data? What for?
I have two aliases I use for all purposes where my real personal data is irrelevant, say where no transfer of money or rights occurs.
And that is 99% of all cases!
As you cannot trust in most security implementations of online services "out there" that is the easiest and best possible damage control I can think of.
Go hack my account. That one? Not my account! :-P
Have a look at this extract from the NOD32 license:
"THIS IS NOT A PURCHASE CONTRACT BUT AN AGREEMENT ON THE RIGHTS OF THE END USER. The Provider remains the owner of the copy of the Software and of the physical medium, if any, on which the Software is supplied in commercial packaging as well as of all copies of the Software to which the End User is entitled under this Agreement."
If this is not a purchase contract, they remain the owner of the physical medium, and I can only read it after I've opened the package, what did I actually buy?
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