Samsung Chromebook: The $499 Google thought experiment The most amazing thing about Google's inaugural Chromebooks is that they come with a file manager. It's not much of a file manager, but it's relatively easy to find, and it gives you relatively quick access to the files you've download, or screenshots you've taken, or documents on a thumb drive you've plugged into the USB port …
I mean, I read the article, some positive aspects were noted. But I just don't see why anybody would want this. What does it offer that you can't do on a basic Windows or Linux laptop... with Chrome installed? It seems to me you sacrifice the option of running local applications and gain nothing in return. And it's not astoundingly cheap either, I'm not sure it's cheaper at all.
The only possible advantage I see on the security front, but even there I'm not totally convinced. By giving up the ability to run local applications, you obviously reduce the number of ways your computer can be attacked. Can't argue with that. But since you've moved everything into the browser, presumably if your browser DOES get compromised, that's has bad as having a normal computer completely compromised.
You've got no privacy,
Scott McNealy Jan 1999 http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/1999/01/17538
Autarky is difficult to impossible in a modern society. In the end you've got to trust someone.
Possibly that isn't Google but a lot of the criticism directed at them seems to overlook that the questions regarding privacy and computing were never asked sufficiently often prior to Google.
I remember an early 90s discussion regarding what I think was the first networked computer system for a government department, in which it had been originally planned to disable the floppy disk drive because the user should not be able to take data out of the system (If only that culture had been established)
How many laptops, USB sticks, whatever, are lost each year?
I don't know what the right safeguards would look like but many organisations could benefit from this approach. Dare I say it might offer a solution to the NPfIT problem?
No, I don't work for Google. Yes it would require attention to interoperability (but isn't that a good thing?)
But I would not use this as my primary machine. Maybe if I was travelling and needed something disposable (although imagine trying to explain to Customs that there's nothing on here to inspect!) I would consider it. The constant requirement for an internet connection is a bit problematic for daily mobile use, though.
Think Boris bikes and their infrastructure. You don't need to take this through customs. It's stateless. You just need to be able to pick one up where you're going.
And no, you shouldn't be allowed to work on sensitive data you don't own in a public place (company forecasts, NHS data, government economic policy). If you want to read published data get a Kindle (other e-readers are available) if you want to write billet doux get a personal mob. Perhaps with a e-book reader app?
The Chromebook takes me back to the old days of thin clients (dumb terminals) connected to a mainframe. The only difference with Google's take is that it's all based on a really flaky network. Seems like the worst of both worlds - the higher cost of a stand-alone computer, the limitations of having to be joined at the hip with a server, and - as an extra bonus - a network connection that might disappear at any time (cutting off your computing life-blood). Ah, the wonders of modern technology...
its designed to do one thing well yet it costs the same as atom based netbook that can do everything with much higher storage but can also access google docs etc.
i just do not understand why anyone would want this? its not exactly lightweight, its not cheap (if they want it thought of as "disposable" it will need to be considerably cheaper) battery life is great but the rest of it sounds like a major ball ache why on earth would anyone want this over a windows/linux atom based netbook other than the speedy boot?
Agreed. How on earth can they justify maintaining Android and the Chromebook? Android is light on resources, can do everything Chrome OS can do, but plus is better for offline work and app availability and if they invest in implementing enhanced keyboard only navigation (which they could more than adequately do if they diverted Chrome OS resources) they will gain the benefit of giving Android additional flexibility for working across platform formats. It seems to me Chrome OS is almost a pure subset of Android capability, but the difference in resource consumption and memory footprint (where Chrome OS can theoretically be lighter) is entirely irrelevant to the cost of the final device given where hardware is currently at.
I live in a country with so many villages that still do not have DSL or 3G access. How would that work for where I live.
Also, what happened to the nice sense of ownership you get when you get your software, open up the box and read the manuals etc...?
Don't you get shivers down you spine when you think of all the ways your data can be abused when it is not stored in your computer? Pics of your wife, ohh it's OK if they were looked at for the sake of national security! After all, if you did nothing wrong you would have nothing to hide. At least locally they would have to either hack into your computer or have physical access to it to see your personal stuff. You could also always store your really sensitive private stuff completely offline if you wanted.. try doing that with an online only system except in the most basic ways.
A few years back there were many cases of government officials stealing business ideas from honest to god hard working citizens, abusing their authority to deny you permits to start your business and then start the same projects themselves, now consider how that would work if you had all your data online and somebody can request access to your files for "national security reasons" Then they would have all the documentation, studies, statistics and business plans you had! Yippy, corruption made easy! and nope a court order being required does not offer much protection if there is enough corruption out there.
Ohh yeah, have you ever consider what would happen if one day google went bankrupt and they shut down their services? What happens to your data then?
You criticise this becuase you dont have a great internet connection? Well this clearly isn't the laptop for you.
I dont criticise Ducatti because they only make motorbikes and i dont have a motorbike license. Or criticise solar powered calculator manufactures because where i live its dark for 4 months of the year?
You see, this is like the electric car, great concept, but it is only practical for a few people because it takes forever to charge up and has very limited range as well as being unable to charge it everywhere you go. Ohh yeah, did I mention that electric cars (in general) are slow (same goes for this particular chrome book)?
At least with the electric car, you are not worried that somebody will accidentally wipe out all your data or that somehow your data has been compromised! Another issue is, the speed and efficiency of your online apps depends on the reliability of your internet connection. A local app's speed depends on factors in your control like your hardware and how well you care for your machine.
Might work for some people, but I would not depend on it in my company (oops, construction company dug a hole in the wrong place and cut of the internet from an entire city, all the staff get a holiday till the cable gets repaired) and I am still getting tech support calls from my Dad, because the internet thingi is down and he cant get anything done!
Would you criticise Ducati and every other vehicle manufacturer out there if they all started pushing bikes and did everything they could to part you from your car? What if Ford, Toyota, Mitsubishi and GM all stopped making cars and only made motorbikes, so that in the end you have two choices: motorbike or Adam's cart?
Because this is what Google, Microsoft, Apple, Amazon and every other computer manufacturer out there are doing with this "cloud" bullshit. They all have a vested interest in getting control of your apps and data, which is what this "cloud" shit is really about. It's about the ruling class getting back the control the advent of the internet has taken from them and put in the hands of the common man.
The future they envisage is one where you have to pay to access your own files, and pay again every time you want to read, add to or edit them. Pay-per-use applications - $1 for each document you type in CloudWord, $5 for every image you edit in CloudPhotoshop. Or if you edit a lot of documents you can now do so for the low, low price of $29.95 per month which lets you edit up to 500 different documents as many times as you like! Want to relive those old memories and view your photos? Only 20c per view per pic! Want to share a file with a friend? Only 50c per file per friend! Etcetera, etcetera. That's where this "cloud" business is going.
Alternatively, they'll offer a "free" cloud service but the catch is you allow them to scan your files so they can build profiles on you. Profiles that can be used to exploit your weaknesses to push psychologically manipulative advertising and sell you shit you don't need. Profiles that can be used by unscrupulous and corrupt governments to steal your business ideas, or to set you up to save one of their own arses. The possibilities are endless, once these bastards have your data in their hands.
If you doubt what I'm saying, consider this: What's wrong with selling an application that lets you access your own files, from your own computer at home, securely over the internet? Mobile VPN? That gives you all the benefits of the cloud, like remote access, while keeping the advantages of controlling your own files, like privacy and control of your data. Such applications do exist, but you don't see them being endlessly plugged, or made easy for the average user, by the likes of Google and Microsoft and Apple. Why? Because they want you to store your files on THEIR systems, not on your own. So they can get control of your data. That's the ONLY valid reason for pushing their "cloud" so much. Control, control, control. That's what it's always been about.
So these fuckers will hold your data to ransom the day they manage to force everyone onto the cloud. If we have even the slightest modicum of a desire for freedom and control of our own information, we will repudiate this "cloud" shit with all the contempt it deserves. They can't sell it if nobody will buy it.
You make the most perfect sense I have read in ages, however the average pleb will do what he's told because he wants "shiny things". TV advertising budgets are often larger than the programme's they sit between, because company's want us all to buy shiny stuff no matter what the sacrifice, be it money, mental health, etc. If anyone wants to push people towards the cloud and they have a lot of clout in the mobile market, people will be in the cloud, they will have no choice in it.
Now remind me again which two organisations want the cloud shite to be big AND have a big market share on mobile devices?
I think this is exactly what I'd want from a netbook. Years ago I had a desktop mac and a windows laptop – what I wanted to do was flick open the laptop when I wanted to do something quickly in email or on the web; but I very rarely did because I knew I faced a slew of updates and syncs before I could get going, and the longer I postponed, the worse that got. Instead I only used it when I needed Windows.
I don't mind administering my main machine, but I'll happily let someone look after my netbook. I guess I'd want Skype, though.
I tried to get her into using a computer for years so I could send her regular emails and photos of grandchild etc. But we are talking here serious computer illiteracy. Have you ever tried to teach someone to use a computer who is incapable of even clicking a mouse button without having a spasm of "I can't do this" fear and moving the mouse 5 inches whilst clicking? Let me tell you it's not easy and I have to admit after hours of patient trying across multiple attempts, I gave up. It was clear the whole exercise would draw a blank because she simply didn't enjoy it because she found it so difficult. If that basic motivation isn't there its' a non starter.
Got her an iPad and it was wonderful to watch. She could use it immediately. I mean really use it. I was simply stunned and hugely impressed. But more than that, she enjoys using it. Plays scrabble, reads her emails, gets piccies of her family, accepts schedule items to track when family events are planned and is now daily contributing to the demise of the printed book and newspaper. Say what you like about the iPad but the fact it passes the "so easy my mother can use it" test so spectacularly speaks volumes.
This costs $429, which means that we in the UK will be charged £429 for an Atom powered laptop that cannot do anything without the Internet. I bought an i3 laptop for only £300 and I can do many things on it without needing the Internet.
If it is to be disposable, then it has to be much cheaper, about £100. Although in this day and age, we should be reducing the amount we chuck away.
............I also have to say that your point about the likely price in the UK is (if you will forgive me!) right on the money. When one notes that one can get a pretty decent netbook for that kind of money or indeed, for example, the Asus Transformer *with* the docking station at that price point one ends up with a feeling that Google did not exactly think this one through in the commercial sense.
A netbook with castrated... sorry, customized Linux OS and more or less secure bootloader (how secure - remains to be seen). It might be marginally more stable and better optimized (due to company having to deal with few hardware brands) than an average netbook, but I doubt a casual user will ever notice the difference. What this user will undoubtedly notice, is his frustration from not being able to do simple things he is used to being able to do on his netbook.
Maybe, just maybe, if this chromebook had some distinguishing features... like, better display, longer battery life, lighter weight, maybe ARM processor (does the browser actually need an Atom CPU?) and global unlimited wireless data plan... maybe it could have been of some use. Until then... I'm skeptical
For these limited machines to make any dent in regular netbook and laptop sales they need to be at least half the price than current.
They could have reduced the cost by putting in an ARM processor instead of intel and a smaller SDD as after all if its just running a linux kernel and chrome why do you need 16GB if you aren't installing local apps?
Switching from Intel to Arm chip should also give them longer battery life
It's a crippled laptop.. for £400. It does nothing to justify that price.
Had they priced it at the £150 the early netbooks went for (before the manufacturers started getting greedy and killed the concept stone dead) it might have had legs. For £400 you can get a reasonable HP Laptop (G62-451SA came up on google).
Steve Ballmer was really quite public about his intention to make netbooks much more expensive than they were at the time by increasing the ransom - sorry, price - he charged OEMs for his shitty software.
So setting aside the fact that many people didn't know what they were getting when they ordered a Linux netbook - which is a different problem entirely - yes, Microsoft killed the netbook. The price of this Chromejunk thing isn't relevant to that fact.
Giles; Either MS really has a secret dastardly mechanism for reaching inside people's heads and flicking a "don't buy" switch every time the consider buying a non Microsoft product or you are a moaning Minnie who sees each consumer (which includes you) as a mere tool who can't help but be to used by big corporations
Now which is it?
Well, I find myself wanting to access some of my data from more and more different locations and machines. And about every time I use my netbook, I end up first logging into my server to get the files I want. The end result is that the files I need to use on my netbook are now in Google Docs.
The only reason I won't buy this is the lack of specific things like watching the occasional movie or transferring and editing pictures while on the go.
But they are getting close to replace my netbook use-case.
When Google services offer offline modes, and the price comes down (I think the magic sweet spot for me would be £169), I'm certain this would all parents / grandparents would ever need. We need bash prompts, IDEs and compilers, high-powered native gaming, and other CPU intensive applications. We are not the target audience.
For the target audience, with the exception of needing a new printer (and pending the inevitable changes around HTML5 and pricing), I really can't understand the weaknesses. Hell, even I'd get one for browsing in the living room (I'm not a tablet fan). Give it 12 months, and lets see what happens.
Given the UK (and many other places) poor reliability for broadband and mobile Internet access, these are about as useful as a chocolate fireguard.
Maybe in 3-5 years, if (and that's a big if) the network infrastructure has evolved enough, might such a system succeed.
Not my poison though. Gimme a thick client.
Surely if a workplace wanted machines for remote working with nothing stored locally, they would install a Citrix or rdp client rather than chrome? There are plenty of desktop thin client terminals around that do this, and possibly even something in laptop format.
It's perfect for her. No moving parts so it's harder to break the hardware, no accessible operating system she can hose with malware, and the Google apps already do everything she needs out of a computer. She doesn't really take her existing laptop out of her house either.
Myself, I wouldn't be seen dead with one. But it's the end of my tech support nightmare with my mother-in-law.
Obviously the storing of files in the cloud for access from everywhere from any machine is how it will be. After all a file server at home is nothing but a local cloud. i think that will happen with all devices and os'es in the future. I get the impression this device is something in the likes of a concept car. It's got great academical kudos, but practically is too far from perfect. I'd love to have something like that on windows pc, windows phone or on the macs and the ipad. There is no big chance that it will work between different OS'es though so I think we'll have to settle on some os at some point
The nastiest of the web's many problems is the clumsy, slow, inconsistent, and unreliable interface provided by the combination of a site's programming and the web browser with which you access it. It was a giant step backwards the day Mosaic was conceived in 1992 and since then has not so much been corrected as merely complicated. Like the inescapably ubiquitous pinky-gray cellulite wattles on the morbidly obese supermarket checkout clerk, self preservation has forced us all to simply stop noticing how awful it is.
The only purpose served by making it the _only_ interface will be to create a generation of users who have no idea what a dog it is and who will have no objection to Google's de facto ownership of their virtual lives.
Be evil, Google. Be evil.
What I want from "the cloud" is an online backup, and a means of automatically keeping the data stored on my local machines in sync. Since everything exists on my local machines I get to backup everything in case the cloud screws up and eats my data during a sync.
Evernotes, Dropbox, and Gmail (when using IMAP and paired with an email client like Thunderbird or Mail) all give me this.
Google would have to
1) Have all the apps work offline on my desktop where all my data is 100% local, kept in sync with with the cloud.
2) All the apps work offline on the chrome books with local caching or recently accessed data and the ability to create new data.
It wouldn't be hard, my iOS devices do this with dropbox, evernotes, and email already.
The problem is Google wants to make local storage obsolete :(
Not with any of the apps you mention. You're better off rolling your own, using maybe Microsoft's Synchronisation Framework, Amazon's S3 and judicious amounts of HMACSHA521, AES and RSA asymetric encryption. That's what I'm doing, because there's no way I'm trusting any internet-based service with data I haven't encrypted twice.
And that's the problem. For free I would take one.
With Google things are always a bit creepy and they actually suck quite a bit, but hey -- what Google offers basically works and it doesn't cost you anything, so it feels like a good deal after all.
Paying a hilarious amount of money for what basically is a low-end but very expensive netbook... no.
The chromebook isn't for the average ElReg reader - but you all knew that, right? It's for people whose blood runs cold at the very idea of having a computer, keeping it running etc. Even better, it's also for people who dread the idea of giving their parents/grand parents etc a computer because of the inevitable tech-support obligations.
I'm typing this on one. Literally you take it out of the box, turn it on, enter some account details (do it for them in advance..) and activate the 3g modem - and verizon will walk you through the 3g setup if you call them. No software to load/update/maintain - it just works. I suspect there's a market for that sort of thing...
The software isn't perfect, but so far there hasn't been anything that can't be resolved by pressing the power button. I'm happy to explain that one to my mother over the phone :)
I like the idea of using the web (I refuse to ever use the term 'cloud') in this way, in terms of accessing / sharing files across different devices and locations (if on holiday), but as ZenCoder stated this is an extreme solution to a problem that has already been addressed.
There are a number of different ways I can already share and access my own data - without the weird and wonderful restrictions and entrusting more of my privacy to Google.
I initially thought that Google had accidentally submitted a belated April Fool's after reading the article. Google are selling a dumb client at a price point where one can already buy devices (laptops) that do much, much more. As for security, that remains to be seen (compromised browser) but it's an extreme solution to a security issue by ridding yourself of your house and it's contents to live in the equivalent of a tent!
As for the mother (or grandmother) test, iPad. Yes, it's at a more expensive pricing point, and has a number of Jobsian restrictions but is so much more capable, and easy to use.
I think that that Chrome OS netbook fails the mother / grandmother test by quite some margin. If my own grandmother were still alive, or my mother hadn't already bought a laptop, I would have given both of them iPads. The only issue is whether one predominantly types or not (touchscreen vs qwerty).
On the subject of Citrix, I'm not sure whether it's my company's implementation or a number of other factors, but each and every time I open a goddamn file, I have to wait 20-30 seconds! I like the concept (in theory) of getting away from local storage - especially in work environments due to colleagues STILL saving on their C:/ drives instead of the server - but the existing options, plus my flash drive (physically small and unobtrusive, big enough storage and highly portable) is good enough for me.
$499 for a dumb client to implement a paradigm that already exists to a degree. Why? I mean, why? ** As someone else has stated, the only market I can immediately see a use for is any place offering 'net access.
...no peripherals, can't run local applications (so can't develop applications), can't store local data, can't use it unless Google allows you, can't use it unless there's a network handy...
So basically, it's half a computer for twice the price of a complete computer?
Nah. It's not for El Reg readers... and who the hell else cares?
Small, light laptops are good for travelling. Which is when a continuous internet connection can't be guaranteed. Continuous internet connections can be guaranteed in your home or office. When smallness and lightness are irrelevant.
What's next from Google - a cellular mobile phone without a battery?
For a University deploying Google Apps this provides the perfect solution. As something to loan out to students spending a day studying in the Library this is perfect. They can research either using the dead trees that fill libraries or online, making notes as they go, and then hand the device back in at the end of the day. For the University there are huge advantages as the effort of cleaning/patching/updating a pile of laptops is time consuming. Training students to take the stuff off the C: drive and put it on the network somewhere is prone to error and work is lost.
By using chromebooks the students get a simple device that keeps their stuff safe and doesn't involve the University in creating and maintaining a complex operating system.
Think of people taking minutes at meetings, parents visiting for opendays and students attending lectures. These devices fit many use cases that Universities have been crying out for. A simple kiosk based device that is portable.
But then I tried Google Docs last week, while our IT department sorted out my laptop when Word got corrupted. Now, don't get me wrong, Google Doc's word processor is nice, in the same way the word processor that comes with Microsoft Work is probably quite nice, but for demanding report documents with four levels of sub heading, it's pretty useless (Want automatic heading numbers? Muck about with CSS)!
After going to Google docs, I gave Microsoft Skydrive a try, and that was far nicer; far from perfect but it saved me a completely unproductive day! As an added unexpected bonus, the MS product proved to be surprisingly browser agnostic, allowing me to pull back an hour on my MacBook in the evening (using Safari).
It's a pity Google haven't put a bit more thought into Docs as I potential is great! So far, the only alternative to Microsoft Office that has really impressed me has been Open Office!
For really complex documents I really prefer LaTeX
You try automatic numbering of equations with numbers in parentheses BEHIND the equation in word, plus automatically referring to them. Real nightmare.
Besides, one earlier MS-Word version packed in after you tried to create more than 128 equation objects (which means these "links" were stored in a fixed size array in the file format (after all who needs more than 640 kB RAM)). It was not my document, but a PhD thesis of some student at our department years back. He scorned all the rest of us for using old-fashioned LaTeX, instead of something modern. When he hit the 128 equation barrier, the tables were turned.
This sort of technology is best placed on lightwaight desktops in large corperations. With the Apps and data running from the corperate network. This removes the shody network issues, maintains security, and removes the requirement to be sat at the same pc everyday. You can then also offer a much slicker 'home working' model as your staff can use their pc with chrome installed and remote log into your service.
$499? Disposable?
You are *so* overpaid......
Even sillier when a quick trawl shows that I can pick up a perfectly good 15" laptop new that'll run any of the full-fat OS's and app suites for, erm, 300EUR. It even comes with a perfectly disposable copy of Windows on it, if chucking stuff away is important to you.
So 300 for the non-disposable one and over 420 (monopoly money to EUR + VAT) for the throwaway version? You owe me a keyboard.
This would sell shedloads if it was
1) 250 pounds or under
2) included at least 1GB of free Internet access per month for a year
3) featured local printing support via USB
The most important item is 2). A very cursory search shows it's possible to get 1GB/month for 8quid retail (or less).
It does less than a netbook, therefore they should provide more elsewhere.
Amazon can offer free 3G for life with the Kindle, and whilst that isn't the same market Google could learn from this. Where is the upselling in the Chromebook? The tablet market can maintain a marketplace; why can't a Chromebook?
It's not a suitable product for business, so it should meet other consumer expectations.
- It should've a much bigger monitor.. so it gives me a better browsing experience than my 399$ OtherBook.
- It should come with really huge speakers.. so I don't've to invest in any more gadets.
- It should come with free HDMI connecotrs so I can hook up my TV.
# So in terms of hardware it should give me value that software wouldn't. (this gem's for free).
- netflix/hulu play should be without hiccups. (it plays just about).
- skype play should be without hiccups. (Is there any skype play?)
- my bank & tax should work without hiccups.
- my photo editing & upload should be smooth.
# What major applications do "normal" people run ? There should be no need to go back to OtherBook for just 1 app.
If they can't do that, it simply has NO future.
The concept is neat, but these laptops are way overpriced for what they offer. I'll buy an Atom or ARM based Chromebook for $150, but any more than that and I can buy a real netbook or low end laptop with the same or better features. Hell, my dm1z was $370 shipped and has way better specs and comparable battery life.
But I like my personal data right where it is, on my computers in my house under my control. The thought of storing in somewhere 'in the cloud' gives me the creeps. How do I know its backed up properly, what if google (or whatever cloud provider I choose) goes tits up and I can't access my data etc etc.
If I want to access my data from anywhere else I can RDP into my machine or if it becomes a regular need I'll set up a NAS box - in my house and under my control.
I also like me deciding what apps etc I need, wtf do google know about my specific computing needs. They can take their Chromebooks and stick 'em up their virtual be-hinds...
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