So
I imagine it was pretty explicit stuff. FAces uncovered and everything.
The revelation that US commandos who stormed Osama bin Laden's Pakistan bolthole unearthed a "massive smut stash" didn't much surprise those who'd been expecting news that the terrorist wasn't quite the paragon of Islamic virtue he claimed to be. Of course, the "extensive" collection of "modern, electronically recorded video" …
Besides using porn as steganography, having a huge stockpile means a huge array of salt or seed with which to form a major bugger of a crypto key.
Moreover, using porn as steg means turning ON as well as turning OFF analysts and ANALists who will be distracted or incensed (or, if you will, end-sensend) at getting this stuff all over their hands.
Imagine seeding a key with cuts and pastes as well as multidimensional overlays of sorts to form a "spherical key", if you will. Why should a key be thought of as "flat" when it can be an enter-active sort of key that is "live" rather than "static"?
To cull the secrets out of a live sphere, one would have to be a quantumly-esteemed and cunning linguist...
Announcing it can ironically only *hurt* the US cause in this instance. Any Bin Laden supporters or sympathisers will have a deep mistrust of the US government and so not believe this - there are unlikely to be any fence-sitters ready to sway.
But it will cause people in the "Bin Laden: bad" camp to stop believing what the US government states.
So best case, everyone believes what they already believed. Worst case, everybody believes what they already believed, but some of them now distrust the US.
"But it will cause people in the "Bin Laden: bad" camp to stop believing what the US government states".
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
(Wipes eyes).
Very droll.
*I* don't believe what the US government says. Or the UK government. Have you ever heard of Claud Cockburn?
not that I know the first thing about OBL (or care as much). But it strikes me as curious that in the UK, whenever they catch a "terrorist" it's not long before we hear about "indecent images were found on computers removed" ...
Seems to be a standard smear tactic.
I agree with Prof Rod T Long....
I dont think anyone but the most fundie of fundie bombers thinks Bin-Laden is a paragon of virtue (although his uncanny resemblance to Jesus wont help things in a few thousand years) but I also have no reason at all to believe any spin that the US Govt produces.
Either side could be correct and as it doesnt matter to me, I dont care.
Their idiots (those who read Al Daily Mail) are as black and white when it comes to politics as ours. Just as there are millions in this country who favour extensively bombing cities, so there are in Islamic countries. Just as those who support the BNP are idiots, but not really the most fundie of fundies, so those who support OBL are idiots but not necessarily that fundamental.
There's plenty of people advocating violence in this world. No need to panic, but it's probably best to care a little bit.
No, the real idiots are those who believe without question the propaganda spread by those who own the media, control our governments and "education". Then repeat their baseless opinions, socialising the ill-informed to conform to the "correct" prejudices.
"there are millions in this country who favour extensively bombing cities" - I don't know any such people personally. You should point the finger at our government for they are the ones repeatedly bombing foreign countries based on lies. There are few truly independent countries left in the world but those who control our governments will create a reason to attack them just like for all the others.
Follow the money, you will find it Illuminating.
"No, the real idiots are those who believe without question the propaganda spread by those who own the media"
Is some reference to the BNP faithful and whoever runs their facebook page?
"I know no such people"
In which case you should get out of your bunker and socialise with people, preferably those who don't hold the same world-view and don't confirm your own biases ad nauseam.
Follow the money? You don't know the half of it.
A naughty stash ? We don't know, and never will. However, it is odd for the CIA to feel that a mass murderer's reputation needs lowering. If you have already incinerated 3000 civilians in a premeditated act, looking at naught pics hardly makes you a worse person. And his followers, though they may be gullible, are unlikely to believe what the CIA says anyway.
Better for the West to give a good example to Bin Laden's followers by improving our own behaviour.
"However, it is odd for the CIA to feel that a mass murderer's reputation needs lowering".
A murderer is a criminal - someone who kills a fellow citizen, contrary to the criminal law. However the US government itself has declared Bin Laden and his crew "enemy combatants", and denied them the rights guaranteed to criminals by the USA's own laws.
It follows that 9/11 was NOT a crime but an act of war. And its perpetrators were not murderers but enemies of the USA. As such, 9/11 was pretty small potatoes compared to Hiroshima and Nagasaki, or the bombing of hundreds of different Axis cities during WW2, or the killing of 3 million people in South East Asia, or the killing of over 1 million people in Iraq. For none of which American rulers or voters apparently feel the slightest responsibility or guilt.
...to the (few) survivoirs of the Burma Railway, Changi Jail, Belsen, Sachsenhausen, Dachau, Sobibor, and many other instances too numerous to recall.
Or do you believe, like the Grauniad, that if we did it - it's automatically wrong & we should shroud ourselves in sackcloth & ashes?
"...Hiroshima and Nagasaki, or the bombing of hundreds of different Axis cities during WW2, or the killing of 3 million people in South East Asia, or the killing of over 1 million people in Iraq."
Well, I don't particularly admire Americans for any of the above, but given the choice, I'd rather be under American rule than Nazi Germany's, Japanese or Arab for that matter. This from a Polish woman who does not bow and likes to flaunt occasionally without being stoned for it.
Katie, my point was that the Americans themselves declared that Al Qaeda are not criminals. Therefore 9/11 was an act of war, not a crime. The examples of American violence I cited were merely intended to remind everyone that, in war, massive violence is the norm. Compared to Hiroshima, Dresden, or even Fallujah, 9/11 was a relatively small episode of violence in which "not many" (relatively speaking) were killed.
The only reason I chose American military violence was that it's the Americans who try to have their cake and eat it by saying Al Qaeda are criminals one moment, and not the next - whichever suits their current purpose best.
governments who are found to have lied in the past to further their agenda's have all credibility removed, especially when it comes to an issue which has an intention of polarising support for Bin Laden.
I have to mimic the professors comments. While I have no qualms believing that both parties are propaganda merchants, this story is the most extreme and damaging against the Al Qaeda leader that I am automatically suspicious.
We'll know in about 50 years after countless investigations and potential de-classification of government documents.
Best form of hiding, me old Viking lad - not having any there in the first place.
Not something that particularly appeals to me - I love a good dinner, but pics of others eating don't do much for me, nor do pics/viddies of sumptous repasts.
I'm not prudish or offended by it, merely uninterested personally.
Still, as the froggies say "One man's fish is another man's poisson"...
Now Beer, that's a different matter...
Get the CIA to somehow put some twitters about that it's about to reveal the identities of muslim ter'rists who have been shagging hookers, camels, goats, young boys, etc.
Then wait for the fuc*kers to take out 'super-injunctions'. Stamp all over Blighty's laws in the interest of National Security, and get their names and ID's.
Piece of piss.
I suspect the reporting of "subliminal messages" has more to do with the gutter press misunderstanding the concept of steganography, that some comedy, backwards masked nonsense.
Some CIA type probably mentioned that they were checking to see if there are any "hidden messages" embedded in the images - gutter press hears "subliminal messages" and runs with bollocks headline.
Killing bin laden just before the 10th anniversary and then finding lots of material that discredits his character and finding lots of usb sticks with info that backs up everything the U.S government has ever said about the war on terror.
Except sorry, the rest of the world isn't allowed to verify any of this.
How very convenient this whole thing is.
If there was a stash, his followers will believe it is just US, propaganda, Anyone with half a brain or more will also suspect the find. We don't like the terrorists, but we also knows that Uncle Sam will lie, lie and then lie some more. The only people who will swallow this without question are the sheeple, and they out number people who think by 100 to 1 at least.
I do wonder why he was not captured and put on trial. Did he know too much? Or had he outlived his usefulness? (We got the Iraqi oil, our war in the Stan, and the dregs in Libya) so we don't need you anymore. Or did they realise that if he did go on trial, they might not get a conviction? Media circus etc. But you know there is no body is there? very convenient. Bogey man vanishes.
Because the government has such a long history of "colouring" the truth. No one ever believes what they say, lost all credibility.
It's obvious, that in the USA, there are 2 types of misinformation etc. going on.
A) by the actual black operations - they must be successful, seeing as we haven't heard much about them (and failures)
B) by the actual government sources - this stinks of a botched attempt at black propaganda. Everything, to the way they handled the disposal of his body, to the continuous change of story (as to what they could get away with.
Black Helicopters - Anon.
It makes sense for bin Laden to have pron on the USB sticks he was using to transfer his e-mail. There has to be some reason for a person who is searched to explain the presence of the USB stick on their person. And having it contain their "porn collection" is likely to satisfy a cursory examination at a military checkpoint. It's certainly a better scenario than the checkpoint loading the USB stick into a laptop and being confronted with a single file entitled "Osama_bin_Laden.eml".
Paris: because now CIA staff have a valid excuse to watch her video.
"Let's face it, the only way the US administration could have got more column inches out of the outrage was if bin Laden had been caught in bed with a Las Vegas hooker and a bottle of Scotch, toking on a post-coital spliff while reading The Satanic Verses."
What about a transsexual Jewish Las Vegas hooker, drinking a bottle of Scotch, eating a bacon sarnie, smoking a spliff, reading The Satanic Verses, all while wearing a T-Shirt featuring the Danish cartoons?
AC because AQ are not known for their sense of humour.
because that's going too far, nobody is ever going to believe that...
"Bin Laden had been caught in bed with a Las Vegas hooker and a bottle of Scotch, toking on a post-coital spliff while reading The Satanic Verses" just about stays in the world of a realistic possibility...
it would hard to determine without a close examination if the hooker was indeed transsexual, and without knowing if the transsexual was pre or post op, the Jewish identity would still be a difficult one to determine.. the bacon butty could easy be any other meat, but I will give you the T-shirt....
Think along the lines of a photographer bursting through the door, getting one shot and away... what can be proven or at least a high probability....
and I need a new Netbook
In the past It sure has proven to be a great way to discredit and smear someone not particularly liked by a regime/government. The oldest and easiest smear tactic there is and especially useful in conservative religious societies where homophobia is a favourite and approved past time.
It always gives me a belly laugh and eye roll when I read about it being used in such modern and progressive times as ours. Recent Malaysian and Indonesian examples spring to mind, but lets not kid ourselves US republicans and Fox news would spend a fortune on media if they possessed a photo of Obama bumming or being bummed by another bloke.
The sad thing is we didn't need porn charges to make Osama look like a dick, he did that all by himself, maybe it works to dissuade his followers but it backfired on me, kinda humanising the crazy stick insect man as I picture an absurd Doctor Strangelove moment where he's on the toilet whacking off with one hand while holding his copy of 'Matyr monthly - sixty hot headscarfed virgins for you' in the other hand, all while screaming orders to his followers at the other end of a handsfree bluetooth Iphone* to 'kill the degenerate americans'
*OK the iPhone is a little absurd, There is no way he could of been on the lamb and untraceable for so long.
When being evil alone doesn't quite cut it an added a charge of sodomy should help seal the deal..
Typical Us propoganda, done as ever, clumsily.
Makes you wonder, all the cover up, the body disposal (at sea?),respecting islamic traditions, blah blah blah.
Fact is USA screwed up big time. They knew he was in Pakistan all along, Pakistan knew this all along, but this was only done to achieve the following:
1. Keep the Anti terrorism dollars flowing in the politicians pockets (so hid him near the army
barracks)
2. Keep the Arms industry going as much as possible
3. Now make the most of the propoganda to demonise OBL.
Like they do everything else.
Reminds me of the famous phrase and truism:
Americans spent millions of dollars making a pen write in zero gravity (for the shuttle missions),but the Soviets simply used pencils!
And who determines that OBL shouldnt have had sex/porn whatever. AFter all, they are allowed more wives than what the vatican preaches, anyway.
Paris, cos she's no Angel, either.
Shame you spoil your argumnet by regurgitating an urban myth. Try Googling "urban myth space pen" and you'll find *LOTS* of entries like this one - http://space.about.com/od/spaceexplorationhistory/a/spacepen.htm.
Fact is both the Russians and Americans used pencils until Fisher developed the Space Pen speculatively and at their own expense and persuaded NASA to use it.
When they say they found child porn then I will know for sure it's a black PR exercise. Until then, I am quite ready to believe the porn was indeed found. I predicted that much myself.
As far as the expected damage it is supposed to make to Osama's reputation - it's highly exaggerated. Hardcore followers won't believe anything they don't want to believe. The high-ranking members don't believe what they preach anyway and I'm sure are no strangers to porn themselves...
"When they say they found child porn then I will know for sure it's a black PR exercise."
Given the level of IT sophistication that these people have shown over the years, I think we can assume that if he is running Windows then his machine has been part of a child porn botnet for many years.
Of course, if he was running Linux then the porn stash was probably his own.
I'm pretty sure I heard something about ObL having a teenaged wife? Like, the kind of young where, had they married in the EU or USA, it would be illegal.
But then, how much of that is true. He's been a decade-long lammist, he's not exactly gonna be on This Morning with Philip & Fern (which makes it easy to make up bollocks about him).
"Let's face it, the only way the US administration could have got more column inches out of the outrage was if bin Laden had been caught in bed with a Las Vegas hooker and a bottle of Scotch, toking on a post-coital spliff while reading The Satanic Verses"
you owe me a new netbook, this one is covered in half chewed crunchy nut cornflakes.
If it is true that this is just black propaganda then it's incredibly inept (so yes, it's very feasible that it's a CIA op). Given the source of the information, none of the fundies are going to buy into it, even if it is true.
What they should have done:
1. Have a low level official drop the story on a semi-respectable blogger (preferably non-US)
2. Wait for the story to go viral with all the ensuing 'what are the US military not telling us!!!' hysteria.
3. Drop a copy of an official looking inventory of said stash on Wikileaks.
watch out for these headlines as further facts are released by the always trustworth U.S. gov,..
Bin Laden used to smell !
Bin Laden used to smell his own farts !
Bin Laden used to smell other peoples farts !
Bin Laden used to pick his nose and eat it !
Bin Laden used to pick other peoles noses and eat it !
Bin Laden is a stinky poo bum and eats other peoles farts does a wee !
Bin Laden only had one testicle !
Bin Laden had no testicles !
Bin Laden was a transvestite !
Bin Laden was actually a woman !
Bin Laden was the bastard child of Hitler !
Bin Laden has a small PC built into his head !
Bin Laden used a Mac !
Bin Laden was actually English !
Bin Laden cam from Mars !
...and they're all true
The one thing I thought when the news came out that bin Laden had been located: So all those videos of him standing dirty outside a cave weren't an accurate representation of his daily living conditions? "I'm one of you ... see? One of you! Down with the West! ... is that still on? I need to get back to catch 'The Office' ..."
it was a missile that hit the pentagon and not a plane.... and the plane that was actually supposed to have hit the pentagon was probably shot down over the sea....
how far fetched would it have been for a terrorist to have infiltrated the US air force...
I could go on about it all day, but in short, the published events of 9/11 are not the whole truth....
Highlighting this line:
<i>Another report from "American-owned" Associated Press raised an eyebrow down at the UK's Independent on Sunday.</i>
Of the article. I take some moderate exception.
George Soros, the DNC, and those currently running the white house, own the opinions, polls and statements of most of the very left wing radical media...
There are many, here, that resent them being called 'Americans.'
Certainly not believers in the US Constitution or American Values.
Look at just the issues that they lie for and lie against...
And refuse to 'truth' about.
Most of what I get for news, comes from other than media sources on this side of the pond...
And a damned shame, I have to sometimes rely on sources the media is ashamed to admit have the right to publish.
Those that 'own' the AP may be of dubious American Citizenship... or values...
Those that controle AP...
Hardly have Traditional American Values.
Like honoring private property, truth, honor, integrity, responsibility for your own actions...
If you a going to slam my opinion... Please start with the value 'Truth'...
Something 95% of the US media knows little about... ever publishing
So they raid the compound using two modified helicopters with 25 Seals - and lose one of the transports - yet still have the space and weight-lift to pull out all of the original Seals, plus a body AND all of the computers?
Did they call for another helicopter - because 25 armed men don't fit into one helicopter ...
Running off with a bucket load of portable drives and RAM drives sounds OK - maybe they just used laptops ... but I think that's unlikely - and PC boxes are bulky beasts ...
Something's not right about the whole story.
"What are you wearing"
"A large black sack with a one inch visor slot and bare wrists and ankles".
Nope doesn't do it for me.
Guess you'd have to have been shut up in one room for ten years before you'd find that mild stimulating.
As Basil Brush says ...Boom Boom!
I'll get me coat..it's the one lined with 500 Euro notes.
"Did they call for another helicopter - because 25 armed men don't fit into one helicopter ..."
Very good thinking! Now why didn't that occur to me. Oh yes - it was so bloody obvious I never twigged. Now you mention it...
Damn. WHEN am I going to stop falling for that "Big Lie" technique???
Too good to be true? - You betcha. I call BS. Purest BS. Whoever it was that they killed in that compound (and I say that as someone who has believed OBL to be dead since Dec 2001), the "can't keep his bits in his trousers" smear is such standard US Gov't fare that no-one should believe a word of it anymore. Keeps Joe Public interested though, that's for sure. Just to remind you of a few fairly recent cases:
The UN's Scott Ritter - an expert causing embarrassment to the US, or someone who can't keep his bits in his trousers?
Julian Assange - leaking embarrassment to the US, or someone who can't keep his bits in his trousers? (Thanks, Sweden, we owe you one)
FFS - Bill Clinton - president unpopular with "certain elements" of the US hierarchy, or someone who can't keep his bits in his trousers?
And now OBL - great terror threat to the US, or someone who can't keep his bits in his trousers?
It makes you wonder what they've got against Strauss-Kahn, as the standard smear is wheeled out yet again.
For the record, the Nebulo trousers are on and the zip zipped. True, I am not knowingly any threat to the US government, but should I ever decide to become one there's no reason to assume that it will make any difference to my sex drive or (minimal) appreciation of porn.
no one's remarked that that must've been a big load of camel toe.
I can imagine Bin Laden thoughts as he watched 72 Virgins 72:
"Phwoar, there goes the veil, look at the chin on that!"
"Oh my God, Peace be upon Him, she's going all the way up to the nose!"
"Bugger me a camel, what I wouldn't give for a bit of forehead!"
"Eyebrows out for the lads, love!"
"Let's face it, the only way the US administration could have got more column inches out of the outrage was if bin Laden had been caught in bed with a Las Vegas hooker and a bottle of Scotch, toking on a post-coital spliff while reading The Satanic Verses."
You wrote it so it must be true.
This Bin Laden pron story is just plain dumb the report makes him more human thou pron would have made perfect sense as a way of cover for sending messages to AQ followers there would be no idea to hes pursuers he was keeping in touch with his followers as the idea he was taken alive saying he killed would be perfect cover or killing him to keep his mouth shut there a old saying the dead tell no tales as to were they found also makes sense it would be the last place they would be looking for him.