Fiat 500 TwinAir

As a rule, I loathe retro car design. The people responsible for VW’s re-imagining of the Beetle, and BMW’s not-that-mini Mini should have passed water on the graves of Dr. Ferdinand Porsche and Sir Alec Issigonis, and had done with it. Such is the intellectual perfidy of this despicable and lazy philosophy of car design. Fiat …

[Anonymous Coward]

IT Angle ???

Is there one ?

[Anton Ivanov]

The windows logo on the steering wheel

Ugh... That is one vehicle that is definitely NEVER going to make my shopping list. Windows logo on the steering wheel? No thanks...

[DrXym]

If it has a Windows logo...

Then the car will only steer left. This will be cited as a design feature.

[Anonymous Coward]

Could be worse

It could have an Apple logo, then it would cost twice as much and would only run on fuel approved by Apple and priced well above market rates. And you'd probably need a rubber bumper over the steering wheel as you're surely holding it wrong :-)

But worst of all it will only come in one color and if you don't upgrade yearly you'll be ridiculed for driving such an obsolete vehicle.

[Filippo]

Could be even worse

It could have a penguin logo - then it would be really cheap, but you'd need to use a command line interface to steer or brake, and you'd need to modify the engine yourself if you wanted to use a new brand of oil.

[Hellcat]

Yes, but you need to read the article.

Fiat's eco:drive is a internet based application. It pulls in data from the vehicle, data on fuel prices and combines them along with other users data on fuel efficiency.

This immediatly makes the article more IT relevent than the next 'a different colour i-product is rumoured to be in development'.

[farizzle]

check on the right-hand side...

of the 'Hard Facts' section (page 5) - says you can buy it from Amazon.

If AMAZON isn't IT enough i just don't know what is..

[Anonymous Coward]

Well...

I guess it's only a matter of time until The Register gets a Stig-a-like

Cars are boring

[Ralphe Neill]

Or maybe ...

... a Stig-a-trix??

[Anonymous Coward]

@DarkNerd

If you think cars are boring, you are driving the wrong one. Get a 7 or similar. Then you might get a girlfriend too.

[Anonymous Coward]

wow, that's quite aggressive and personal

compensating much?

[Vladimir Plouzhnikov]

@AC

Cars *are* boring. As are most girlfriends after a while...

Cars are for moving from A to B. If you want excitement - get yourself a plane.

[Danny 14]

eh?

"As are most girlfriends after a while"

Cant agree with you there sorry.

[Anonymous Coward]

Girlfriends aren't boring....

....Until you marry them.

Married, hence AC in case she's reading (looks over shoulder)...

[Jan 0]

Cars are boring

but useful for taking big junk to the tip, going glamping, or buying the year's supply of big rolls and washing powder from a hypermarket.

A "7or similar" is a car for people who can't cope with a motorbike test.

Ok, I can't see that the "500" fills either of those roles.

[Steven Raith]

Mmm. Motorbike.

"A "7or similar" is a car for people who can't cope with a motorbike test."

Or who want a road legal go kart...

I fancy a 7, and an R1, and a leggy old diesel merc for motorway schleps.

Shame I don't have the money to buy, insure, or fuel any of them. Bah.

Steven R

[Matt Bryant]

RE: Cars are boring

"....A "7or similar" is a car for people who can't cope with a motorbike test....." Nah, it's for those that want to be able to survive a 30mph shunt without extensive surgery. Unlike bikers. I can also offer from experience the fact that most girls will get into a Se7en, even in a cocktail dress, but won't be happy to put on leathers or mess their hair up with an helmet, and then perch on a pillion. Bikes are great for solo thrills, if that's how you like your thrills....

Now, Se7ens with bike engines are fun, so why don't Fiat make a small, mid-engined sportster with this turbo twin? They could call it the new X-19.

[Anonymous Coward]

W4 NKR

>>> If you think cars are boring, you are driving the wrong one. Get a 7 or similar. Then you might get a girlfriend too.

Beamer drivers are all wankers.

[Anonymous Coward]

re: Beamer drivers are all wankers

You don't know what a "7" is, then?

Anyway, didn't you know Audi drivers are the new BMW drivers?

[Conrad Longmore]

The IT angle is..

The IT angle is.. that the car runs Windows (Windows Automotive) which handles various control functions and the media player. (And El Reg has covered low emission cars for a while!)

We bought one of the first new 500s in the UK early in 2008 - apart from the weird random flashing odometer thing and some issues with external trim, it has been a reliable little thing and it really is fun to drive. It's pretty high-tech underneath the retro exterior, and there are zillions of different options which means that no two are exactly the same.

[NightFox]

British Leyland - Before Its Time

"...which means that no two are exactly the same."

The same could be said of every car British Leyland ever churned out.

[Ed 11]

IT angle

Well it does have a USB port...

I was also excited by the "Buy from Amazon" link, thinking the online behemoth had made the move into the automotive industry. Clicking on the link was something of a disappointment as I'm not sure "The 2011 Electric Car Guide: Discover the Truth About Owning and Using Electric Cars" will serve my motoring needs too well. Although I imagine it has very low running costs.

[TeeCee]

Retro cars.

I have to say that I agree with everything said on that subject.

I also reckon that FIAT have nailed it here. I must get my paws on one of these.

[Alan Brown]

Ah, but....

Can 6 people carry it up 2 flights of stairs and leave it on the landing?

Mine's the one with the photo of the Fiat500 that got parked outside the 5th floor lab.

[Elmer Phud]

Sun Roof

There was always the sun roof which could be opened up to allow extra passengers who could sit on the laps of those in the seats (no, not like that, not with nine people in the thing). Just something I heard about, a mate of mine etc.

[TeeCee]

Re: Sun roof

The orginal also came in a roofless version with wicker seats called a Jolly, see here:

http://microcarmuseum.com/tour/fiat500jolly.html

I remember once reading an article about this beastie in a Classic car mag, which closed with something like; "There. I managed to write the whole article without once mentioning Noddy..........damn.".

[Zog The Undeniable]

Is that price right?

11 grand? You could buy a car for that sort of money!

[BrianP]

'lazy philosophy of car design'

This is a glibb comment that misses the work required to bring a car to market, designers are offering the public what they want ... right?

Or perhaps we are all lazy for not designing a better wheel?

[Nick L]

engine weight - how much?

This sort of thing is definitely the near future of motoring: it has to be. Much better suited to short town journeys than any diesel, too... (My wife has a golf TDI with a DPF, and it needs an occasional longer drive at motorway speed to empty the crud from the dpf)

definitely worth checking out.

Saying that, how come a 2 cylinder, 875cc engine weighs 85kg? What's it made out of? The BMW N52 3 litre 6 cylinder engine weighs 161kg... Three times the size, three times the number of cylinders, three times the power - but under twice the weight & co2 emissions. If they'd taken the same approach it could have been down to just over 50kg? I guess there's a turbo, multiair cleverness etc but I'm surprised a 2 cylinder engine would weigh that much: it doesn't strike me as particularly light.

[Filippo]

re: weight

It's not really my area of expertise, but a modern engine is a complex thing - surely there are many parts that simply don't scale with size.

[Andrew Bush]

Extra cylinders?

The extra cylinders are actually just empty space and as such don't weigh any more

[Anonymous Coward]

Looking forward to having a go in one of these

I've driven a bunch of 500s and so far never failed to have an enormous amount of fun. One note: that bit of painted metal across the dash: it's actually plastic.

[johnnytruant]

Oooh, nice

The 500 series is based on the 2003 Panda chassis, iirc. I like my Panda, it handles well for a low-end non-sports car, but it's not quite as fun as it could be. It's comparable to a Pug 205 in terms of driving experience, which is good, but it's no Mini (and by Mini, I mean an actual Mini, not the fat ugly crap BMW make)

If this compares well to a Mini, I might be interested. Does better mpg than my current Panda diesel too. I agree on the styling, I think the 500 is one of the few reimagined classics which actually works. The Panda is too, thinking about it. Fiat are doing a lot right these days.

[Conrad Longmore]

Panda

The Panda is also jolly good, but usually overlooked in favour of the 500. I remember a year or so ago that James May raised the idea of a "Save the Panda" campaign..

[fixit_f]

Free car anyone?

My spidey senses detect a backhander from Fiat. Not that I object, the reg has to pay for it's costs somehow I guess..

[Aaron Em]

You did see it costs eleven grand?

That's a hell of a lot of money to spend on a laudatory article in a newspaper which, frankly, nobody is reading for its automotive coverage. If this were the Car & Driver comments section, I might think you could have a point, but here?

[Kravex]

Windows on the steering wheel?

Certainly brings a new meaning to the 'Blue Screen Of Death' if it 'crashes'...

[Anonymous Coward]

Retro

At least Fiat have refrained from making a 500 4x4 SUV in the style of the "Countryman".

That is the type of bloat that would make Microsoft proud.

[Conrad Longmore]

Erm

http://www.gmotors.co.uk/news/fiat-500-awd-prototype-spotted-testing-in-sweden/2012-fiat-500-awd-prototype-7/

OK, it's not a Cuntryman, just a 500 with a similar AWD system to the Panda, which is reportedly very simple and rather effective.

[Anonymous Coward]

Company car

This is ace as a company car - I have one, pretty well spec'd with hi-fi, ESP, glass roof, blue&me and it's incredibly cheap, even for a higher rate tax payer.

I get nowhere near the claimed 67mpg though :(

@johnny It is based on the panda chassis, yes.

[TeeCee]

Re: Company car

Company cars never get anywhere near the mpg that other drivers of the same vehicle get, let alone the manufacturer's claimed mpg.

Something to do with the accompanying company fuel card positively encouraging hefty use of the "lead welly" to get yer money's worth on the associated tax liability.

One of my colleagues reports that by attaching a roofrack, a huge roof box and two surfboards, loading the car+box to the gunwales and thrashing the living goolies off it all the way to the south of France, you can get a Prius to do under 40mpg on a run. I was impressed.

My all time fave scheme was that of a mate whose car policy said that you could take the cash alternative and still get the fuel card. He did so and bought a 4 litre V8 Land Rover Discovery. It's amazing how much you can get one of those to drink when you're *really* trying......

[SirTainleyBarking]

Ahh that would be the reverse fuel consumption figure

Of Gallons per mile rather than MPG

[Lottie]

Wow

I think I've found my next car. I love the design of the new 500 (it reminds me of a space age toaster) and I found the old cinquecento to be a hoot when driven hard.

I also love the whole concept of fuel economy dropping into the 40 mpg range if driven hard. That's good for a lot of cars if driven cautiously./

[sebacoustic]

well-said

i congratulate you about the sentiment regarding the "new Beetle" and "new Mini", the latter also known as the "Twatmobile"

[Anonymous Coward]

Comparethesheertwat.com

Only for ignoramuses who have never driven one for any length of time.

[Anonymous Coward]

Blue and Me

Speeaking as someone who's had a hire car with the predecessor, Microsoft Sync...

HELL NO!

I always thought needing to pull over, stop and restart the car was from the 'what if microsoft made cars' joke. But when it got stuck in a loop 'Please say command...please say command...' barrelling down Highway 1 at midnight I didnt find it THAT funny.

[Hellcat]

rule 1. Never judge a car on a hire car

My previous car was a 2007 Fiat Bravo with blue&me.

Brilliant system. If there was too much noise for the voice detection to work (you would need to be driving through a roadworks with the windows open) you simply use the menu/enter, up/down and back/esc buttons on the steering wheel. Of course if it was that noisey the person you called couldn't hear you.

The mp3 playing and eco drive worked very well too. The only problem was DRM.

[Nev]

Blue and Me

I've been using it for 5 years. No issues.

Voice commands for phone dialling etc. blow every other system out of the water.

[Cosmo]

MPG

I've heard various claims that the >60mpg is very difficult to achieve and that lots of TwinAir owners aren't getting anywhere near that. Of course the manufacturer's claimed figure is always pie in the sky, but it seems for some reason that FIAT's seems to be well off for this model

[Tim Spence]

Absolutely

Interesting read here: http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/green-motoring/2011-02/500-twinair-economy/

Apparently the manufacturer's quoted MPG values were likely derived in Eco mode, which is a bit naughty without clarifying that next to the figures.

[Anonymous Coward]

TwinAirAds

Now if only someone would teach Fiat's TV advertising people the difference between "Less" and "Fewer". ..

[Anonymous Coward]

And BMW

Same goes for BMW's EfficientDynamics ads, where they make the exact same mistake.

[Steve Foster]

Surprised no-one has posted this yet...

And, for those who'd like to hear the song used in the adverts, it's here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRYvuS9OxdA

[SplitBrain]

You are all missing the point here....

There is no IT angle, but there is an engineering angle, and we geeks love good engineering. Fact is this is the most radical departure in the way a petrol engine is built in decades, they really havn't changed all that much since the birth of the combustion engine.

I applaud FIAT for the multiair, it's a potent little engine.

Mine's the Alfa Giulietta 1.4 170hp :)

[trashbat]

Blue&Me reliability

I don't have it on mine, but I frequent an Alfa forum and there seem to be very few issues with the Blue&Me kit - definitely one of Microsoft's better developments. As for the engine, FPT have done pretty impressive things with MultiAir, e.g. http://youtu.be/iL4-i8yJZiI

[Anonymous Coward]

Blue Tooth linkage is hardly cutting edge these days

Nissan have the n-tec system that does all that the Fiat system does plus you can stream Blue Tooth music into it. So play music on your Jebus phone or ipod touch through the car and in the Jebus (or Android) phone's case it will also interrupt it to make and receive calls hands free.

Available on nearly all their range, standard kit on the n-tec versions of micra,note, quashqai etc..

Sat Nav too.

[Filippo]

re: reliability

IIRC, Blue&Me is based on Windows CE, which doesn't share anything with the desktop OS line. An entirely different dev group made it from scratch.

[R J Tysoe]

How Much?

How much are FIAT paying to plug this car? There seems to be an endless stream of ads and reviews for it over the last couple of months.

[SkippyBing]

Can you fit a suitcase in it?

Seriously. For some reason work ordered a Fiat 500 convertible as a hire car to get to the airport, try as I might I couldn't get my suitcase in the boot. Ok it was a biggish suitcase because I was going away for two months but still. Couldn't get it in the back seats either as the front ones wouldn't lean forwards enough, the massive rollover bars either side of the roof meant I couldn't lift it in without a second person to assist who strangely wasn't available at 5 in the morning. Eventually it ended up sitting next to me in the passenger seat.

The annoying bonging noise when you break what it thinks is the speed limit is quite annoying as well, especially when you're late because you spent an age trying to get your bloody suitcase in the thing...

[Anonymous Coward]

you can if it's not a convertible

I have the hard top and a week's worth of luggage and a laptop will fit in the boot fine.

[AndrueC]

Suggested improvement

Replace the auto gearbox with a CVT unit. If in doubt, license multimatic from Honda. That way you know you'll always be in exactly the right gear.

[mafoo]

Amazon

The inappropriately placed phantom "Buy this now from Amazon" button rears its ugly head again.

[Stephen 10]

Pointless in Australia

but only because it's from Europe and therefore 'luxury'.

The price here is equivalent to GBP19,500 - just a bit of a mark-up...

[Getter lvl70 Druid]

I Hate You All <yet in a positive way>

Not available in the US, I tried. We get the POS 4banger one with 37mpg.... Why? Dunno... bastard politicians bitch and moan about conservation and shit like that AND block companies like Fiat to protect fucking Detroit and those goddamned unions.

Enough to piss you off, you know?

>:(

[Kristian Walsh]

Look closer...

Read the specifications a bit closer: (http://www.fiatusa.com/en/500/specifications/)

The engine in the US 500 is a 1.4 litre MultiAir unit, so it uses exactly the same airflow control system as this two-pot. It's normally-aspirated rather than turbocharged (all the 1.4 MultiAirs in Europe are also turbos, but Americans don't seem to like turbo engines), but it's the same clever technology.

Also, the MPG figures quoted here are for Imperial gallons (4.54 litres), not US Gallons (3.78 litres), so you'll need to multiply them by 0.83 to convert to US.

MultiAir itself is a major advance in engine technology - probably on the scale of electronic fuel injection or Common-Rail diesel (the latter also a FIAT invention, incidentally), but time will tell.

[Anonymous Coward]

Good things come in small packages...

"...the 500 TwinAir is the most fun you can have in a small car with your clothes on."

In a car that size, I'm not sure how much fun could be had without any clothes. Or am I just getting old?

[SirTainleyBarking]

Well I hate to break it to you

But you probably are.

And before anyone else chips in. Solo Don't count

[Anonymous Coward]

re: without any clothes

Ah, fond memories of an old Mini. :-)

[Anonymous Coward]

Engine controlled by Windows Automotive?

I think I'll just walk, thanks.

[Nev]

Flashing Odometer...

..that's a CANBus error in Fiatworld.

Something has failed to respond in time during the pre-start-up checks.

[Anonymous Coward]

The only problem I found with mine...

... is that occasionally the entire windscreen goes blue with random white text on it. Very irritating.

[Lars]

Nice

From "Fix it again Tony" Fiat has come a long way. Still I have to admit that, somehow, a Alfa Romeo bye Fiat does not "feel" the same (in my head) as the original.

As far as I know Fiat now owns more or less the lot of GM. There are those, I suppose, who

hope that Tony will be able to fix it again.

[Anonymous Coward]

Great engines

Test drove the Alfa Giulietta 1.4 Multiair 170bhp last month. My Scirocco 1.4 TSI now feels a bit of a slouch. I think this may be the future of petrol engines, genuinely new and inventive tech, well worthy of El Reg's attentions.

[Nick Galloway]

Souped up sound

This car sounds great but as an option pack could Fiat supply a 90°C crank so it can sound like a hot V-twin, along the lines of a ucati or Moto Guzzi, which happen to have engines in this displacement capacity. Understandably the bikes have slightly better 0 - 60 times given the much lower weight.

I don't care, I want one!

[dant]

Why making just making silly comments?

I've seen a lot of ill-informed comments and really don't understand why...

Fair enough Fiat has a shameful past to live with but what has been done since 2005 to resuscitate it has been amazing. It is now own 46% of Chrysler (the Twin-Air is due in America later this year and a full electric one next year) and the partnership goes from strength to strength.

On the IT angle: the Blu&Me system was launched back in 2006 when other car makers were well behind! It allows hand free phone connection and voice control as well as media play (got all my music on a USB stick), also voice controlled. Recently a partnership with TomTom has been made which integrates the Eco:drive, Blu&Me and TomTom systems. This has nothing to do with the engine controls as someone suggested.

Oh: the TwinAir doesn't pay for the congestion charge in London. Not bad for a city car! Stop comparing it with bigger cars!

One last comment for all the chronic sceptics: please give it a break!

[Scott Broukell]

They got this the wrong way round, shirley ...

If they had stuck with the economy mode by default, and clearly related the mpg figures to that setting, then they could have called da ting a "Boost Button" (not "Eco"), much more exciting all round nest pas ?

Oh! wait a minute, now Bernie Ecclestone's Scaletrix set has "Boost Buttons" I suppose it would have sent the wrong message or given it expectations it couldn't attain.

[Leona A]

love the car,

cheeky little thing, like the styling and the eco'ness' of it, but I wouldn't trust Anything with M$ logo on it, so would opt out of that right away.

[MJI]

Is it 180 or 360?

Important question for a parallel twin.

90 degree V is better than both.