Oracle wins round one in bare-knuckle Android patent suit

Oracle has won an early round in what is sure to be an epic battle against Google over Android's use of Java. This week, Judge William Alsup issued a "claims construction" order in which he sided with Oracle on the definition of four out of five patent terms that will help determine outcome of the company's lawsuit against …

[Jay Jaffa]

The Lawrence J Ellison legacy - a null pointer

Larry should learn a musical instrument or perhaps to paint. It might teach him what real talent, intellect or a legacy actually means - assuming, of course, he didn't try to patent the process of creating music or art. The man and his company are beyond pathetic - much like the current patent system.

[Giles Jones]

Music

What does that have to do with the case?

If you're going to talk about music then surely the case is about Google and if they did a "cover version" of Java or if they just "sampled" it.

Either way you will struggle to convince anyone that the dalvik virtual machine is a totally independent piece of software. Sun obviously turned a blind eye as they realised the contribution that Google made to Java but Larry is obviously more of a capitalist control freak.

Having used C# it's easy to see that that is inspired by Java, but it has enough differences to set it apart.

[jswinterburn]

In hindsight

Google should have used a few quid from the cash pile to buy Sun instead of letting it go to Oracle.

[Nick Kew]

Nice idea!

Maybe some of us former Sun engineers could now be working for the Goog, rather than picking up whatever crumbs we can find!

[Ian Michael Gumby]

Huh?

If you were any good you would have already found work.

[SimonX]

Harsh

That was a comment lacking in class. Can I give 10 thumbs down?

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder..

What would have happened to Open Office then - what with Googles on-line docs and all....

[Anonymous Coward]

Who cares?

Suppose Oracle won this dispute in every conceivable way and Google either decided not to pay them for use of their patents, or Oracle refused to grant them a license on any terms.

Android would likely get properly open sourced and "relocated" to somewhere sensible, and it's use in the USA would effectively become illegal, a bit like Cuban cigars, but less important.

What could demonstrate the stupidity of US patent arrangements more eloquently? I'm sure Apple would lower their prices so as to allow disadvantaged mobile FaceBook users and similar to enjoy the advantages of "smartphone" ownership (joke), and the US government would take no interest, in the same way that they aren't investigating the patent posse who're after Google's "unencumbered" video codec - Hoho.

Meanwhile, back on planet earth, the rival armies of lawyers are probably already working out a deal that'll be good for everyone except consumers.

At the end of the day, do any none-beneficiaries actually give a tuppenny toss?

[Ian Michael Gumby]

@TakeHandle... you should care...

First if Oracle wins out then Google will be faced with Huge fines, and punitive damages.

Oracle will have to offer Google the rights to Java ME at terms comparable to those offered to other mobile phone OSes. (Oracle has to do this...)

Google *can't* ignore the court order or judgement. Google can't just host the code outside of the US.

(You probably have heard of these things called international law and treaties?)

So if you are an Android developer, you should pay careful attention to this case.

Actually if you're a software developer, you should pay careful attention too. IMHO based on what has been printed in the articles, it looks like Google took shortcuts... :-(

[Ian Michael Gumby]

The judge's ruling shouldn't come as a surprise...

Oracle's first claim was that google violated their ip as stated in patents.

Google's initial defense was based on how they interpreted the wordIng in the patent.

The judge pretty said... 'I've looked at the wording and I agree with oracle's interpretation on these terms but when I read this term I think it means X and not what both of you said what I thought meant...'

Sorry but Google, Oracle, IBM, Sun... All could afford IP lawyers that know how to write patent language. This issue was a hail Mary from the start.

I don't know if you would call it 'round 1'. It's more of just the first set of punches within round 1.

Google would have had to get a lucky shot and hope that oracle had a glass jaw...

The beer because we're in for a long fight and even the later rounds when we leave our seats to take a piss, the odds are we won't miss much...

[Matt Bryant]

RE: The judge's ruling shouldn't come as a surprise...

Whilst amusing, this punch-up doesn't inspire any loyalty for either party. It's a bit like watching the evil bully fight the evil extortionist - not particularly inspiring. I suppose I should be rooting for Google if only to show my unease with the US patent system, but I'd be probably be happiest of the judge had found a settlement that actually served consumers best.

[Ian Michael Gumby]

@Matt Bryant

You really should be rooting for Oracle.

Think about what will happen if Oracle loses.

Its not going to be good for anyone and of course make it difficult to get patent reform.

IMHO Google knowingly violated the law because if you do the math, they make more money than the fine they pay. You just have to understand how they make money.

So if you reward Google for breaking the law, where do you draw the line?

If Oracle wins, then you have a good case to show where software/business process patents need to be thrown out.

Its a counter intuitive viewpoint, but if you think about it.... it makes sense.

[Anonymous Coward]

Bitch slap!

Those droid freetards!

[WinHatter]

Yawn

Yaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnn !!!

- It's my patent !!

- No it's not !!

- Duh it is !!

...

- etc

- etc

...

Time to put the vindictive kids to bed.

[Keith Smith 1]

sigh

lose java, use python, deal done.

[pan2008]

lose android

deal done. It runs like it's daddy Java, like a slug.

[Dan Paul]

Sum Certain in Damages

Please explain to me what damages Oracle suffered for a "product" that they literally give away free to consumers?

In most cases, my understanding is that you have to have suffered actual damage in order to sue, regardless of patent "law" (or lack thereof).

Since the "consumer" is the one holding the phone and the apps, and Sun/Oracle continues to this day to give away "Java" to consumers (and developers) there cannot be any damage suffered by Oracle, so there is no monetary value that can be assigned to the case, so there is no so called "damage".

[/\/\j17]

I think you've answered you own question...

Please explain to me what damages ORACLE suffered for a "product" that THEY literally give away free to consumers?

Oracle own Java and can do what they like with it, including giving it away for free.

Google DON'T own Java so can only do what Oracle let them do with it.

Not that hard really is it?

[Ian Michael Gumby]

@Dan Paul

You do realize that there is a difference between Java SE (Desktop version) and Java ME (Mobile device version) right?

That while SE is free, ME is not?

That all of the other mobile device makers license Java from Sun/Oracle?

That Google didn't want to pay Oracle so they morphed their own and in doing so, violated Oracle's patents and copyrights?

[Inachu]

If google wins in court.

If Google wins this fight then what precedent this means is that anyone anywhere can take a decompliling program and decompile their favorite copyrighted program and CLEAN it to remove any comments or historical data that points to ownership to microsoft.

Then after CLEANING windows then removing copyrighted images and (C) signage then declare their version of windows to be open source.