Opera uncloaks Gmail challenger from Down Under

Opera has unveiled a free web-based email service along the lines of Gmail or Hotmail. Announced with a blog post but little other fanfare, the service is currently in beta, and it's available to anyone with a My Opera account. "Our goal is to make a fast and friendly mail service that is efficient and easy to use on any …

[Anton Ivanov]

Too little too late

The tie up between android mail, calendar, etc with google mail, calendar, etc pretty much guarantees its market growth at the expense of everyone else. Add to that m.google.com and the emulation of exchange for non-Android devices and this pretty much does away with the entire market.

I really do not see how a new email entrant can compete against that. Ditto for calendaring services.

[Ilgaz]

Easy

Any clever company with a good, trustable privacy policy and without police things like "no matter you delete, we will keep message and keep harvesting data" will be an alternative to gmail.

If I have run a large company network, gmail would be one of the first things I would ban to my clients. It is an absolute security and privacy risk. There isn't even a spyware that harvests personal mails and analyses them beside harvesting e mail addresses.

I am a paid fastmail.fm subscriber and when we logon to fastmail, we see 5 years ahead with plain amazing reliability.

Anyway, keep counting your gigabytes. I got terabyte of space running on my own, private webdav server ;)

[David 164]

Hope you ban every other email host service.

Hope you ban Yahoo Mail, Opera Mail or in fact anything else that have a spam filter, as this analyse the mail and the text in that mail to detect spam.

[ZiggyZiggy]

Ha!

Clearly you have absolutely no experience of anything remotely close to a large company network. Your grans old PC with a stash of hard disks doesn't make you an experienced network administrator.

[Ilgaz]

you know nothing about laws

for example, an health organisation has no right to export patient data to third party. Once that idiot secretary gets genius idea of forwarding all mail to gmail, your patient records are all being analysed, harvested to display ads without any kind of quality control.

You are telling me that I will setup a mail server, secure it, back it up and one single idiot with no comprehension of privacy will upload it to google.

No, seriously no. Gmail and any ADVERTISING SUPPORTED mail service's url belongs to content filtering system, next to facebook.

[Anton Ivanov]

You missed my point

Take an android phone. Kill all Google services on it. Try to use it. Note how many of them reappear magically right away. Kill them once and for all (if you have the means). Try to use the phone again. Good luck with your endeavors.

With that level of competitive leverage no webmail, webcalendaring, etc can compete successfully.

[Alan Bourke]

I'm a paid Fastmail subscriber too ..

... best webmail out there bar none.

[DrXym]

@Ilgaz

Not sure why you single out GMail. Almost by definition, every webmail server in existence (including Hushmail, fastmail etc.) would store your email on their servers and most I expect would cooperate fully with law enforcement and would implement whatever prescribed logging / retention the local law requires.

Really if you're THAT worried about security you shouldn't be using any hosting service AT ALL. Run your own mail server. If necessary backup the data to a remote host, but encrypted of course.

If that isn't an option, use a web host but encrypt all your sensitive email correspondence with PGP or S/MIME. Just be aware that it won't protect things like subject lines, to / from / cc info, timestamps etc. Also encryption is othorgonal to things like search / sorting / filter functionality so while it might protect your data it also impedes communication to some extent.

[bitten]

The best

I left hotmail for fastmail last century, then switched to gmail just for the free spam filter. Fastmail did not need web 2.0 to give an unmatched interface.

[Ilgaz]

I don't think they will change fastmail

Opera isn't a kind of company who has bad traditions like reinventing the wheel. I think they will add better IBM blades only, perhaps will provide an option in preferences to use opera mail interface.

They aren't stupid, they know why people even pay for fastmail account.

[Busby]

Doomed to failure?

Many years too late to gain much traction. Its not as if accounts from other providers can't be accessed via many devices. Not sure I can see what the appeal of switching to this would be.

This could be the final nail though "Currently, each account provides 1GB of storage space.".

[Ilgaz]

as they don't harvest personal mail

Perhaps one should question the real reason behind gigabytes of space being offered by gmail. When you keep all your mails, you serve them better for analytics and advertising profiling.

Not even bothering to talk about the absurdity of using e-mail server to store files. Heard something like webdav? Even Windows can be a good, secure webdav server with terabytes of space when configured right.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yay ajax-y rewrite goodness!

If I find myself using /web/mail that's usually because my normal mail environment* isn't available and often enough that also means shitty network connections, slow machines, and so on. Then a "rewrite with ajax" means just that more slowness torture in the name of "features" I neither need nor want. "AJAX" seems like such a nice buzzword for developers, but to have to use the results easily degrades into sheer torture.

Thus, this is not a reason for me to now flock to opera's mail thingy.

Then again, that's probably not why opera is doing it. More likely it's to "integrate email" with their browser in a buzzword-compliant manner. Now I like opera well enough but I think for email I like my own choice of email client even better.

Thus, that also isn't really a reason for me to now flock to opera's mail thingy.

But hey, maybe enough su^Wother people will. And as monocultures are bad, hmkay, I'm not opposed to opera strengthening their position.

* mutt, if you must know.

[Steven Knox]

Ironically

AJAX can be an awesome solution for poor web connectivity, because it allows the browser to pull down parts of pages at a time instead of full pages every time. It's especially compact when JSON is substituted for the XML (although a sane XML developer can make XML quite compact as well.)

It's a pity, but definitely true, that, as you mention, a lot if it is used to actually *increase* network traffic by throwing useless data back and forth. But I've found enough intelligent use of AJAX out there to realize that it's a fallacy to assume that AJAX means more traffic.

[DrXym]

Best use of ajax

AJAX is best used when the user is doing something which would require the entire page to be regenerated ANYWAY.

e.g. you log onto a bank and the bank shows your statement for the last 30 days and you then choose to view the last 2 months. In the non AJAX world you have to rebuild the entire page. In the AJAX world, you just request the data again and reflow it. There is some overhead in this approach since the page needs JS that initiates the request and presents the data and deals with any anomalous conditions. But overall it's probably better.

Biggest pain with AJAX are the libs themselves and developing against. They all try and wallpaper over the differences between browsers with the result that the code can look very strange with overloaded JS and weird HTML declarative markup. Dojo's Dijit has some really horrible markup.

GWT is probably the easiest AJAX environment for Java developers to use, mostly because it keeps the HTML and JS at arm's length. You just write Java and it is machine translated into JS appropriate for each browser.

[XMAN]

I love it!

I absolutely love it! I've been wanting to leave Google Mail for a long time because I hate them having even more info on me. But I've always loved their conversation thread style.

Good job opera. It's a shame that it's such a crappy domain though. @myopera.com :/

[Dino]

or even more info THAN me !!

Seriously I think gmail knows more about me that I do ....

[Lars]

Good luck, Opera

I might seem silly to compete with the big ones, but then again what would the world be if that was the rule. No Google no Microsoft, nothing but black cars.

So good luck Opera, and yes Opera Mini is damned good on my phone.

[Charlie Clark]

Interesting

I guess it allows them to share some code between M2 and this service because much of the Opera interface is marked up in HTML. Will M2 be spun out as an extension or widget as a result?

+ lots to Opera for making the service IMAP only and requiring secure connections.

[Ilgaz]

fastmail user here

If you demand pop3 support on fastmail, you have to pay for it as it creates amazing unneeded load/bandwidth issues for them.

While on it, can you believe outlook express bugs and needless data usage in modem times is the real reason why IMAP couldn't take off until mobile age? Yes, outlook express managed to undermine such a great standard for years. Imagine petabytes of data wasted since.

[Gilbert Wham]

Too late

Remember when people (well, idiots) were paying money for Gmail invites? Not going to happen here.

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you drunk?

Invites?

Are you drunk?

This new service doesn't require an invite!

[Richard 84]

Meh...

myopera? myopia more like.

[FordPrefect]

Gotta echo..

Too little too late. It offers nothing to pull people away from hotmail never mind gmail. I guess for the microsoft and google haters it will be a good thing but in reality how many people dislike a company enough to use an inferior product when both products are free.

[Anonymous Coward]

inferior product?

You know nothing about OperaMail/FastMail...

It's a very fine service. I'm guessing you are too lazy to explore alternative mail systems, just like you are too lazy to explore othter browsers...

You use what the telly/t'internet tells you to use.

[batfastad]

Google

Google Calendar is truly excellent. But I think GMail is pretty poor. I'd prefer to have proper folders rather than labels/tags. And the ability to disable conversation mode.

But the thing that keeps me in GMail rather than my own mail server is the mobile client. The GMail application for Android is excellent and really quick for checking your mail.

I could use my own mail server with IMAP but I believe there need to be some upgrades to IMAP or a new protocol. When using a standard IMAP 4 implementation, outgoing mail gets sent to the server twice: Once through SMTP to actually send the message, then again to the IMAP server so it sits in your sent items folder. Not so bad for a desktop client but pretty brutal when using a mobile client. Also IMAP is a pretty "chatty" protocol in general.

Be good if there was a new mail protocol based on SOAP/XML... being able to use the GMail mobile application with any mail server supporting SOAPmail would just be excellent.

[I ain't Spartacus]

@batfastad

You can now get rid of the horrible conversation mode. I found out while setting up a new android phone for work, last week. It's in the settings, I think in the general tab, but I'm not on a desktop at the moment, so can't check.

Found it, while trying to disable Buzz, which I thought had been put out of it's misery...

[src]

Fastmail were okay

I used Fastmail with my own domain for a while but when I needed accounts for three users it became quite an expensive option compared to free Gmail Apps. Since then I have become seduced by Gmail with calendar, contacts, Docs, Picasa and Blogger - with easy synchronisation with an Android mobile.This forms such a complete, convenient and compelling package I cannot imagine shifting away any time soon.

Google scan messages sent to me via plain text over the Internet to target adverts at me that I do not see because of AdBlock? Nothing I lose sleep over.

[P. Lee]

group calendaring and rights delegation

is what keeps Exchange in companies.

Solve that one and you might start gaining small corporates to your webmail system.

As far as gmail goes, it's just as fast as local mail for searching. Which is nice.

Mac mail still rules for a UI though.v

[Gene Cash]

"grouped into conversations"

This is NOT a "plus" - Google FINALLY fixed that in the gmail web interface after lots of people bitched. I even switched away from gmail on my Droid, and paid $10 to install another email client with real folders.

[Spanners]

A recent Gmail Improvement

was the option to disable conversation mode. Unfortunately it does not seem to do this consistently on my phone.

Its original presence was an example of Google doing a 'Microsoft'. MS are notorious for the attitude "we know better than you what you want". I hope Opera can do better.

[otan]

bandwidth?

i signed up just to see what it was all about seems ok for a beta but one thing i noticed they limit your bandwidth as well as storage? maybe i was wrong?

[No. Really!?]

Servers location

If the FastMail.FM servers* were located in Europe, or at least Not in the U.S., that would offer an incentive to use the service.

*(they are at NYI in New York City)

[Anonymous Coward]

because that's what the world needed.

another browser-based email client in beta.

FAIL.

[JDX]

re:inferior product?

Aw, those poor patient Opera users. They just know it's so much better than everything else, and wish everyone would See The Light and Be Saved.

[DrXym]

Opera users should realise

That Opera is in it to make money too. Opera Mini doesn't exist out of the goodness of their hearts. It exists so Opera can sniff where people are visiting and deliver them targeted advertising. Basically they're in the same game as Google, Microsoft et all, just coming from the other end.

[Anonymous Coward]

Opera is not into targeted advertising

You are wrong. Opera SPECIFICALLY avoids targeted advertising. Opera does NOT use your browsing history to serve you ads, nor do they store your history for a long period of time either.

Stop lying, please.

[GrumpyJoe]

Been using Fastmail for 9 years now

Paid up member all that time - apart from a few wobbles early on (that they learned from) it has been a SOLID service all over - technically it gives you everything you need (encrypted SMTP/IMAP - great levels of spam filtering - extended address spaces) - yes I suppose gmail has them but - as people sometimes say - you get what you pay for - I get solid email and expect a good service BECAUSE I'm paying.

No complaints here - operamail looks like a 'dumb user' skin over the top though - if you want more just get a fastmail account.

[Whitter]

Horses for courses

I suspect Opera will be targeting the mobile arena as they often do - it's where they make there money after all. So until I to want to want to starting using my mobile to check on emails, then I'll pass.

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope

1/3 of Opera's total revenue is from the desktop version. The desktop version is likely Opera's most profitable product!

[Anonymous Coward]

What's with the "My"?

Even Microsoft have realised anything prefixed with "My" looks like it was made for a primary school project. Anyway, I suspect that this mail service, like Opera itself, will be mostly the domain of extreme shouty fanbois who go on about why it is better than everything else in the world eva.

Much like the browser, I expect it will also be generally ignored and end up with a very small market share. In fact, since mid-2009 people have been ditching Opera, and the share is now flat-lining at around 2% from a high of around 3½%. Feet voting in action.

Cue the fanbois.

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmmm

>>> Cue the fanbois.

Funny how fanbois are always preceded by trolls.

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny...

...how fanbois are fond of the AC check box.

[Ilgaz]

heard my opera?

They managed to transform a web browser community to a real, generic community service with a huge amount of relationships and non technical blogs. That myopera.com is its mail service.

I suspect my opera browser stats are somehow similar to a general site, Opera isn't 90% levels, which is a _good_ thing.

[Anonymous Coward]

re: heard my opera?

What? I read that three times and I still think it sounds like amanfrommars. I've no idea what you're talking about.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Opera's Status Quo...."It's Standards Compliant"

Opera is the dominant browser for mobile phones. It is also the most popular browser for mobile operators, by far.

As for the desktop version, you are getting things wrong:

1. Opera's user base on the desktop has been consistently growing since the ads were removed in 2005-2006

2. The user base on desktop has doubled every two years

3. Opera is huge in many parts of the world, especially in Eastern Europe. The stats fail to reflect this because they are almost exclusively focused on North America and Western Europe. As such, your market share claims are misleading

Again: Opera is GROWING on the desktop, in addition to being the dominant mobile browser.

I don't understand why you feel the need to troll.

[x4zYYvb3]

Small niche ecosystems vs mono-crop industrialised farming?

Opera don't have to try and compete with Gmail, in the same way they don't have to compete with Firefox. Opera Software seem to have carved out a small niche in the technology ecosystem and have an enthusiastic following. Even if you don't use Opera browser on your desktop, there is still a space in the market for an ad free, simple webmail service that supports IMAP. As for the storage capacity, 1GB is certainly enough for most people. Especially if they choose to augment this with the 2GB offered by a MyOpera blog.

However these are just details and perhaps the main reason to avoid Gmail (and a slew of other 'free' services) is that as a user of Gmail you are not the customer but the product. The true customers of Gmail are the companies that pay for the adverts. The product that Google is selling is you and me, our demographic and personal data that we give them for free.

If you are happy being a product of one of the most powerful technology companies in the world then carry on using Gmail.If not, then Operamail is another good option in the marketplace.

[Badvok]

GMail = Adverts ?

What adverts? I don't see any adverts. And the only use I have for Opera is Opera Mini which allows me to bypass my corporate web filter :)

[Anonymous Coward]

Why?

That is all.

[Anonymous Coward]

Erm

isnt this a case of Opera re-inventing "Opera Mail" from a few years ago?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope

No, this is a new service.

[Mark .]

Competition is good

Talk about the moaners. So you think everyone should use Gmail, and it would be a Good Thing if there were no other email providers? I still use my ISPs email, is that bad too?

I'm not sure what Anton Ivanov refers to by Android tie in. Any competent phone (even my 6 year old dirt cheap feature phone that I threw away in the trash last year) can cope with any email provider.

From the point of view of POP/IMAP, they're all pretty much the same. I have to laugh when someone tries to promote Gmail based on its web interface - the bottom line is, you're still using a webmail just like Hotmail and Yahoo before it. Give me a dedicated client of my choice (separate from my choice of email provider) any day.

Christopher P. Martin: "will be mostly the domain of extreme shouty fanbois (sic) who go on about why it is better than everything else in the world eva."

Er, the only fanatics here are people moaning about how they hate a free product no one's forcing them to use (it's the same everytime we get an Opera story), and saying how Gmail is the best thing in the world ever.

"Much like the browser, I expect it will also be generally ignored and end up with a very small market share. In fact, since mid-2009 people have been ditching Opera, and the share is now flat-lining at around 2% from a high of around 3½%. Feet voting in action."

So by your logic, if market share is what counts, Internet Explorer is the best browser.

It really does infuriate you that much that someone has a different browser to you installed on their system? I'd switched to Opera from IE before Firefox even existed - long before it became trendy to do so. It's tiresome to hear the fanatics yelling about how people should switch to Firefox, when we'd started using a decent browser years earlier.

[Anonymous Coward]

Wild assumptions and extrapolations

If you actually read my post properly, you'd realise I wasn't "moaning about how I hate [Opera]". In fact, I gave no actual opinion on the browser itself, just a statement of what has happened to its market share, and my prediction for what will happen to its mail service. I'm not yelling about Firefox, nor telling you which browser you should use, or indeed which one I use.

Your extrapolation that I'm proposing IE as the best browser because of raw market share doesn't actually follow my logic. I'm talking about people voting with their feet, so by my actual logic, IE is poorly rated by a large segment of web users. IE's share has rapidly dropped from near ubiquity to an all time low, with people leaving in droves for other browsers.

So, while Chrome and Safari have been gaining market share, and Firefox has a relatively steady share at about 30% (but has lost a little ground to Chrome recently), Opera's share has declined. They are deserting Opera for other 'alternative' browsers. That is what I mean by voting with their feet.

Your closing statement that you "started using a decent browser years earlier" is a good summary of the strange evangelism of Opera users. I also notice your interesting turn of phrase in the comment that "it's the same everytime we get an Opera story". The "we" seems to suggest a major identification with the Opera 'club', and perhaps a psychological position of feeling like part of a persecuted minority. Hence, you appear to meet the definition of a 'fanboi'. Your condescending "sic" is, I assure you, quite unnecessary here on the Reg forums, as we all know one when we see one.

[Anonymous Coward]

Quit your trolling already, Chris

You fail to understand what Opera is doing.

Opera is huge in emerging markets. This means that the real growth markets is where Opera is making a huge entry. With an insanely popular mobile browser, they can now offer webmail too. Combine these, and they will take huge parts of these growing markets.

And if people are voting with their feet, how come Opera's user base on the desktop is doubling every 2 years? And that's without relying on an advertising or OS monopoly for promotion.

Opera's share has not declined, and the user base has grown. Even if the market share HAD declined, that still wouldn't necessarily mean that Opera was losing users. You can grow without growing as fast as the rest of the market.

But the fact is that Opera's market share is going up as well.

And on mobile, it's the dominant browser.

As for evangelising Opera users, what does your comment say about users of your browser of choice? You are trolling and attacking people, so clearly anyone who uses the same browser as yourself is a troll and attacker. At least these Opera users are just defending a product. You are going so far as to attack a product you don't use to inflate the product you are using.

That's the very definition of fanboy trolling.

[Anonymous Coward]

@AC 09:31

Please listen to me Mr Opera employee (or person with other reason for hiding his identity). I have not expressed a preference for any browser. I am not attacking anyone, I'm simply responding to an attack from "Mark ." (which could be you for all I know), and now to an attack from you (if you aren't "Mark ."). Originally, all I did was state some (apparently unpopular) facts about Opera's market share, and make a prediction about the outcome of this latest product attempt.

You can say that "Opera's user base ... is doubling every 2 years", but you don't show me any stats that indicate this. And how exactly do you define "user base"? People that are using it every day for all their browsing, or people who downloaded it once and still have it installed (that includes me)? All the stats I have seen show its share declining or flatlining at best, like these:

Stats that show the Opera market share is declining:

Statcounter global: http://tinyurl.com/operadecline

Janco: http://e-janco.com/browser.htm

Stats that show it's flatlining at best:

Net Applications: http://tinyurl.com/operaflatline

W3Counter: http://www.w3counter.com/trends

So it may be making real growth in emerging markets, but that means it must be shrinking in other markets. And you imply that market share doesn't matter- how can that be true? Isn't that the only measure of popularity that matters? If you're not growing as fast as your competitors, then effectively you're shrinking! You seem to be suffering from doublethink in this area.

As for the mobile market, yes there's a high share there, but that's usually the choice of the manufacturer, not the user. And mobile is a different market- people want different things from a mobile browser than a desktop browser. I'm talking about Opera on the desktop as that's all I have experience of.

I don't hate Opera, I'm just fairly ambivalent- there are browsers I'd rather use. I have no interest in "inflating" any other particular browser. As I've said before, I'm stating facts backed up with stats, and making predictions. You, on the other hand, appear to be talking in marketing speak. If you're going to try to run a PR campaign, you could at least back it up with some verifiable numbers. And come out of that closet if you've got nothing to hide.

[Anonymous Coward]

Fail, fail, fail.

Give it up, Chris. Your fanboyism is beyond words.

Opera has been publishing user numbers (of active users) for years. Of course, you are too busy pulling out crappy "statistics" that don't even have a representative sample, and that ignore all the markets Opera is huge in.

And no, Opera's growth does not mean that it's shrinking in other markets.

You really need to educate yourself instead of blindly quoting numbers you don't even understand.

[Ilgaz]

What would change if Opera had 99% share?

There is no such thing as "Opera compliant" webpage you know. It is all W3C standards. They don't even come up with opera.something scheme like mozilla or safari. They propose the standards and if published, they support them.

Opera is not a local grocery store and they are a public listed company in a country with an insanely strict market rules. So, they can't even joke about fake stats. The Opera user total number is way beyond 150.000.000 today, especially on smart phones and the media ignored billion feature/j2me phones.

Operators preinstall Opera, paying to them because your 133t developers doesn't care to support a billion devices. Opera does, it gets pre installed. Basic as that.

(replying to the troll you reply to)

[Anonymous Coward]

WTF

Who is this Christopher P. Martin guy, and why is he such a huge fanboy? Why is he spending all this time bashing other browsers than the one he uses?

"If you're not growing as fast as your competitors, then effectively you're shrinking!"

LOL. Hilariously ignorant.

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh dear

Shouting "Fail" repeatedly and then posting anonymously twice pretending to be different people doesn't sound like a reasoned rebuttal to me. You could have at least left more than 6 minutes between your posts.

I'm patiently waiting for any form of reply that isn't just theatrical shouting and actually contains some evidence to back up your assertions.

[Anonymous Coward]

FAIL FAIL FAIL

I don't understand why Christopher P. Martin, the fanboy, keeps trolling. The worst kind of fanboy is the kind of fanboy that constantly bashes other browsers.

FAIL.

[Anonymous Coward]

Personally...

...I think it's worse to shout a lot without saying anything, not respond to any of my points with any kind of argument, and use an AC sock puppet to try and make it look like it's more than just you jumping up and down and shouting about nothing. And I haven't actually worked out what I'm supposed to be a fanboy of yet...

[Anonymous Coward]

Fanboy

You don't use a browser?

So you are bashing Opera, and you don't use any other browser?

Typical dishonest fanboiiiii.

[Anonymous Coward]

Okay,

I'm leaving this conversation now, and hoping you get back under your bridge. I'm surprised the moderatrix didn't shut it down some time ago actually. We're the only two people here, and nobody else cares. Feel free to continue shouting to yourself though if you like.

[mikebartnz]

Grow up

You are just throwing all your toys out.

Considering Opera's presence in the mobile field I think it is a good move of theirs as this is where the real growth will be. I wish them luck.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well yeah

Mobile is where their strength is, so focusing on that is probably a good idea. They're still weak on the desktop though and whatever way you look at those stats they aren't exactly growing. I don't really get what their email is supposed to offer above what gmail or others have for that matter though.

And yes, the ranting anonymous guy isn't exactly doing opera any favours by acting like that.

[Anonymous Coward]

Desktop

Actually, Opera's user base on the desktop has doubled every couple of years. They are very strong in Eastern Europe and markets like that.

The stats only focus on the West, so they are a bit misleading.

[Anonymous Coward]

Info

You've said the user base has doubled every couple of years a few times above. Don't get me wrong- I'm not saying you're making it up, but where does that information come from? And how is it measured? Thanks.