Assange gets appeal date

Wikileaks spokesman Julian Assange has been granted an appeal hearing against his extradition to Sweden. Assange is accused of sexual offences against two Wikileaks volunteers. He will return to court 12 July for a two day hearing, PA reports. Should this appeal fail Assange could go to the Supreme Court, the newswire said. …

[Ian Michael Gumby]

Rubber stamp? Its no wonder the guy is going to jail

Look, here's the simple truth.

Assange allegedly broke Swedish law.

He needs to go back and face the music and is either going to be found innocent or guilty.

His charge is of Rape as defined by Swedish law.

For his appeal to work, he would have to show that the English courts erred by misinterpreting International Law, and IMHO, the judge did not.

Whether the case in Sweden has merit is irrelevant at this time. On the face of it, the warrant is valid. Assange's legal team already raised their arguments challenging the warrant and unless they have new evidence, to challenge the legality of the warrant, they will fail.

So its not a rubber stamp, but the actual law working.

Fail because Assange is trying to play the system to avoid jail time all on his duped follower's dime.

[tumbleworld]

Proof of the pudding...

I guess we'll see if there's anything to his accusations when he either does or does not end up as a guest of Uncle Sam. He's clearly a barmy sod, and a bit of a weasel besides, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's wrong. Doesn't mean he's not lying through his teeth either, of course.

Time will tell, but there's one thing for certain -- I'll be chucking bags of salt around at all sides, all through his sordid little Saga.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but...

I'd like to think time will tell, but you just know that the people who are Assange/Wikileaks supporters won't accept that any court could find him guilty of anything. If he is found guilty of these rape allegations, the cry will be of corrupt judges, bought by the government.

It's the whole problem with a lot (not all) of wikileaks' supporters - they see conspiracy where there isn't one to allow them to believe their world view where all governments and companies are evil and noone does anything that isn't self serving. Except for the wikileaks organisers, that is.

[Ian Michael Gumby]

@tumbleworld

Assange isn't charged in the US. They are still investigating him.

His only crime is that of rape in Sweden and that's what's on the table.

Everything else is a non issue.

Assange's own Swedish lawyers got flayed in court, pretty much admitting that he obstructed justice...

[Scorchio!!]

Re: @tumbleworld

Ah, but did you notice that you were marked down for telling the truth? What matters here it would seem are fairy stories. Don't expect anyone to understand the facts, especially that bit where the Swedes have said that they will not give him up to the US, and will only let them have first go in the UK, which the US have declined. IOW Assange is it would seem destined for a Swedish holiday, not an American one. Yet. I can see the FBI/whatever standing outside the prison gates, supervising the execution of a correctly issued extradition warrant. :-)

[EvilJason]

The funny thing is.....

As bad as the wikileeks supporters are, the other side is equally as bad. Refusing to even conceive of the concept that the accusations are politically motivated in any way.

On one side he is totally innocent and the other he is completely guilty so far i have not seen many people who simply think that it should be all settled out without any chance of political motivation be taken into consideration.

Btw the charges are not rape exactly as in most people minds that means non consensual sex by forceful means but it is some odd thing about condoms when one was meant to have split and something about not using one when they where meant to use one.

Any articles that refute this please post them.

While there is no direct evidence that any political interference has happened there is evidence that some sort of manipulation has happened in this case that would not normally happen that is what is setting people off.

I would like for this to be settled in an unbiased court of law but sadly i don't he would get a fair trial but that's my opinion.

[Brangdon]

Not rape?

He's accused of having sex with a woman while she was unconscious, knowing she would not have consented had she been awake. That is rape by most people's definition. It's a serious crime.

(His not wearing a condom is the main reason she'd have refused, but it's claimed she wasn't given the chance to refuse because he took advantage of her while she slept. He claims she was only half-asleep, and personally I doubt there's enough evidence to convict, but there is a case to answer and the crime would definitely be rape.)

If you want references, read the official court judgment - the one he's now appealing against.

[Scorchio!!]

Re: Not rape?

To which this item can be added, for the purpose of understanding Teutonic/Scandinavian attitudes toward sexual hygiene:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10983227

Those who've been minimising the matter show <cough> seminal ignorance on the matter of sexual hygiene.

[Ian Michael Gumby]

@EvilJason

"On one side he is totally innocent and the other he is completely guilty so far i have not seen many people who simply think that it should be all settled out without any chance of political motivation be taken into consideration."

No.

On the one side you have those who believe he's innocent and this is all a 'stitch up'.

On the other you have those who believes he may have committed a crime and that its the right of the Swedes to seek his extradition so that he can face a trial. There is no presumption of innocence or guilt, just that the guy ditched the country with the help of his lawyers and obstructed justice from happening.

I really don't care if he's guilty or not. I just want the bastid to go back and face a court of law to answer the charges.

Assange puts himself above and outside the law. For a kid that's one thing. For a forty something adult? He deserves to be smacked down so he might actually grow up.

You can probably blame Mommy for screwing up the guy.

[Anonymous Coward]

Please ship the guy, now

I'm sick and tired of the BS surrounding Assange, and the BS he and his cronies spout at ever opportunity.

First off, he is not being extradited to the US. It's Sweden.

Secondly, he has only himself to blame, which we know from the case documents that were leaked (who was angry about this? Ah, Assange! Talk about measuring with two measures). If he had done the decent thing it would have never mutated into a rape case. Now he has to go and asnwer some questions.

The funniest thing that can happen is that the Swedish court decides there isn't anything evil to account for as long as he takes an STD/HIV test so that those two girls get some piece of mind. I can se the headlines already: Assange .. er, what? Oh. Nothing to report. Damn.

That would be painful - finally sliding into the dark of unimportance.

Not a moment too soon.

[Bill Fresher]

Err

Who is the Assange fellow?

I've never heard of him.

[Anonymous Coward]

The time is now

Ship Assange off to Sweden to face trial. The extradition warrant is valid so there is no point in arguing. Grandstanding and being an arse isn't going to prevent Assange from being prosecuted.

[John Deeb]

common sense

Maintaining the law is not about rubber stamping and bureaucratic procedures, or playing with definitions, applying them in random or in some wildly broadened sense. Anyone who tries to opine using such arguments just doesn't know that much about how these cases can go in court.

For example extradition is not legal if a clear political element could be proven to be present. Some of the elements and characters involved sound to me like having a political agenda, although perhaps not anti-wikileaks but more pro-feminist, using the case to gain high profile attention for a larger cause.

And there's always the option for any country to oppose an extradition if they so desire to, since the treaty could be suspended in particular cases. There's a political risk involved with that of course.

And then there are the European court where can be verified if Swedish laws are upholding international European standards. And they might very well not be. In Scotland recently rape cases have been dismissed by the EU human rights laws while the reverse happens there too.

[Ian Michael Gumby]

@John Deeb

Common sense?

You've probably seen the Harrison Ford move "The Fugitive" ? Its plot is based on the real life murder of Dr. Sam Sheppard's wife in Cleveland OH, back in the 50's.

Because Dr. Sheppard came from a prominent Cleveland family, the initial police investigation didn't turn up anything. It wasn't until a reporter from the Cleveland Plain Dealer continued to raise questions that public opinion forced the police to act and then charge Dr. Sheppard with murder.

The reason I raise this issue is to show you that there is always the chance for someone to use influence. Either to force or hinder prosecution.

There were two unrelated gun cases in Chicago, one pre McDonald vs Chicago's US Supreme Court decision and one post decision. In both cases, the prosecutors never pursued charges because they know that they could never find a jury that would convict even though the two people involved both broke the law.

Again these are cases where politics played a part in the cases.

But lets look at Assange.

The charges he faces are not politically motivated. Like a charge of Espionage.

The charges are actually on the list of charges that do not require to be compared to the charges under UK law. So under international law, if the EAW meets the requirements and its judged to be a valid EAW then Assange is off to Sweden.

To defend Assange by crying foul and saying that the rape charges are politically motivated is a moot point as far as the extradition hearings are concerned. He has to go to Sweden to fight the charges.

[Scorchio!!]

Re: common sense

"Maintaining the law is not about rubber stamping and bureaucratic procedures, or playing with definitions, applying them in random or in some wildly broadened sense. Anyone who tries to opine using such arguments just doesn't know that much about how these cases can go in court."

This is nothing to do with the properly constituted EAW warrant, in connection with an alleged offence, it being that Assange fled Sweden (and his lawyer is complicit with this [see below] and likely to hear a lot from his Bar association). The rubber stamp argument is a red herring. It has nothing to do with the matter at all; to repeat, the Swedish authorities have properly issued an EAW for Assange in connection with allegations of rape, and the case in UK courts is ONLY about whether or not the process has been carried out correctly. If it has then in law Assange must go and face the music in Sweden.

"For example extradition is not legal if a clear political element could be proven to be present."

A prime example of a non sequitur argument; it does not follow from the issuance of an EAW for an alleged crime (namely rape) that the matter is political. To be absolutely clear about this, the Swedish authorities have made it clear that they will NOT give Assange to the Americans, though they did make it clear that they would hold back on their NON political EAW case in the UK if the US wanted priority for any political case they had; the US have made it clear that their case is not properly prepared, though they are investigating.

As to the rest, it is nothing to do with trying the case, merely the issuance of a properly constituted warrant to allow the Swedish authorities to complete the investigations that Assange and his lawyer apparently frustrated; NB, Assange's lawyer had to back down, *in court*, from his claim that the Swedish police had not been in touch with him, asking for Assange to turn up for interview. I think the lawyer was until that point lying, but his bar association will doubtless determine this for themselves.

[Anonymous Coward]

@gimpy "His only crime is that of rape in Sweden..."

That sounds like an impartial pre-trial comment from a South African Public Prosecutor. (ggl>Shrien Dewani)

Besides, if the system is being gamed to get Assange to USA, why shouldn't he game it to prevent it?

Maybe Assange's personal life is being dragged into the muck, but he is one of the most honest political commentators out there, and in his brief fame has drawn enormous attention to the atrocities and brutalities and other crimes committed by some of the world's most powerful governments and organisations. Even beyond his involvement with wikileaks, he has articulated many of these ideas and highlighted massive problems in some extremely high profile places, with some very far reaching coverage.

He has done good.

Even were he to be proved guilty of rape, being a communist, a child pornographer, and a witch, it doesn't make his ideas and comments on politics wrong. I wish more people would read his various political interviews, and not let the rape accusations distract from the massive corruption that he has been highlighting.

Just remember, whether he ends up in a US basement being tortured, or a Swedish brothel blowing cash, or a London bedsit in drag, ... the big guys are still out there, and theyre still shafting you up the ass, and many other voiceless peasants too.

Assange is one of the few people that's actually been trying to address that problem. Rape or no rape, in other areas the guy's done good.

[Tom 38]

@AC

"Besides, if the system is being gamed to get Assange to USA, why shouldn't he game it to prevent it?"

Show one jot of evidence the system is being gamed to get Assange to the USA. Really, please do. You speak as if it is self evident, but this smacks of delusion.

If America wanted him, they would only have to ask the UK, and not charge him with a capital offence. Do you think the CIA will whisk him away in mid flight, somewhere over the North Sea?

He's already gamed the system enough, fleeing one country to avoid prosecution.

[Ian Michael Gumby]

@AC

It's interesting in what moderators accept or reject...

But clearly this AC doesn't really read what I've posted.

Had he done so, he would have understood that in context I was referring to the fact that Assange only faces potential charges back in Sweden. Technically he has yet to be charged with any crime. Clearly if you wanted to be a grammar nazi, you would have pointed this fact out.

In reading you post you have this belief that Assange has done good. Unfortunately this viewpoint is more of a reflection on the demise of the Western educational system.

First, presenting information out of context usually does more harm than good. Assange does this not once but 3 times with respect to the US. Second Assange was too busy to vet his information, which is something that the traditional journalist is ethically bound to do. Third Assnge didn't censor his information until well after the fact and exposed sensitive information.

The bottom line is that more harm than good was done and it is unfortunate that you and others lack the necessary context to appreciate the repercussions of his actions. Manning would have been better served if he had dumped his intel into the laps of the NYT instead of Assange.

We live in a world where some idiot in Florida exercises his rights to burn a book and this insensitive act causes a riot thousands off miles away. People were killed over this. Like Assange, I doubt the 'pastor' really cared about the consequences of his actions...

[Sarah Bee]

Re: @AC

Yeah, we try not to get sued, is the thing, and we can't go through every single blurt you lot make with a finetooth legal comb. So there you go.

[Ian Michael Gumby]

@AC Huh?

"Even were he to be proved guilty of rape, being a communist, a child pornographer, and a witch, it doesn't make his ideas and comments on politics wrong. I wish more people would read his various political interviews, and not let the rape accusations distract from the massive corruption that he has been highlighting"

What massive corruption?

Seriously. The man doctors gun camera footage, dumps after action reports, and then diplomatic cables... What crimes have been revealed?

Show me one crime?

[Tom 38]

I don't think he's guilty

I do think he's skipped out of Sweden to avoid being charged, and should go back and face the music though. His guilt is up to the Swedish to determine.

It's hardly like he's being sent to Iran for trial. If you or I were charged with a similar offence, and considered ourselves innocent, we would simply obey the law. He seems to think he is above the law, and his mission supercedes everything else.

Go. Go now. Stop dragging it through the courts, the decision to extradite is not going to be overruled.

[Anonymous Coward]

Time to face the music

Assange is headed to Sweden to face prosecution.