back to article Nokia lobs more patent claims at Apple

Nokia has responded to Friday's ITC determination by filing another complaint against Apple, this time citing seven new patents and again calling for an import ban on Cupertino's products. The International Trade Commission has the power to prevent patent-infringing products being imported into the USA, which is what Nokia …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    Apple + Nokia

    Apple should buy Nokia. Then shut most of it down, keep some of the hardware engineers (my ancient 6310i still works) and use the IP as a weapon against Google / Samsung et. al. Some of the GSM patents will be valid (but multi-taksing - come on).

    If only I had a few billion to spare.

    1. mafoo
      Grenade

      one problem

      Nokia just gave micro$oft their patent portfolio in exchange for Win Phone 7 (and a billion dollars from M$)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Badgers

      I like Nokia... and I like Apple...

      ... but which is better?

      Bring back the Badger Parade, I say.

  2. Giles Jones Gold badge

    Multitasking?

    How can Nokia claim to have a patent on multitasking? It simply can't be a patent on the process of multitasking, there is just way too much prior art. Which just leaves a GUI patent, which is just pettt at best. Nokia's way of multitasking on their phones is much different.

  3. Stone Fox
    FAIL

    and the beat goes on

    If you can't beat 'em, sue 'em.

    sigh....

    1. Ammaross Danan
      FAIL

      Therefore....

      Since Apple sued Nokia first, you're statement thus implies Apple is the one floundering around and seeking to gain the upper-hand by suing world+dog. Unless you're implying that Nokia, who has been in the cell phone industry for a Very Long Time (tm) has a miniscule patent pool to draw from and the new-comer Apple has loads of highly original cell-phone patents which would allow Apple to have the upper-hand in any patent suit.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        FAIL

        "nobber"...

        O RLY? "http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/22/nokia_sues_apple_iphone/" I believe the expression is "pwned". Eat. Your. Words. Numbnuts.

        1. Sarah Bee (Written by Reg staff)

          Re: "nobber"...

          "Gloating is a sign of insecurity, Ludwig, stop it."

  4. flying_walrus
    Gates Horns

    Ms $$$?

    One wonders if this was a condition of their deal with microsoft.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I was thinking the same thing...

      In the long run who benefits here? Nokia? I somehow don't think so... it is possible but not very probable... you'd need a really hot cup of tea.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Boffin

        The MS deal benefits both Nokia and MS

        Look,

        If you followed a lot of the trade rags...

        MS got Map Data and LBS.

        Nok got $$$ and an OS to put on a phone now instead of waiting for Meego to be ready for prime time.

        Considering Android and iOS, it could be viewed as a move to stop the blood loss or at least slow it down.

        Nok and their subsidiaries are going through some changes in light of senior management changes.

        The MS deal by Nok was putting the best spin on a bad situation.

        Lets see how it plays out before condemning either MS or Nok.

    2. MacroRodent Silver badge

      Old war

      No way. The Nokia -Apple patent war had been raging long before the Microsoft deal.

  5. Daniel Palmer

    Digest of comments to come

    <n posts about Nokia phones being shit, yet my small child was able to pick up my iPhone and use it despite only being minutes out of the womb>

    <n posts of "well Android isn't open" which by some so sort of mixed up reverse logic means that Apples environment including draconian code signing practices is actually the pinnacle of openness>

    <n posts of flash and java are "CPU HOGS!">

    and so forth...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Selective Myopia?

      So there'll be no similar shite like this:

      <n posts wailing that open doesn't actually mean open>

      <n posts trying to convince me that the UI on a consumer commodity like a phone isn't of any concern and can be confusing to the point of hostility so long as it's open and therefore great>

      <n posts telling me that WM7 is dead because it's closed>

      <n posts telling me that being up front and building a walled garden without apology in some way makes it ok to breach the terms of the GPL.>

      oh and slightly off topic,

      <n posts assuring me that 2011 really, really is the year we all start using Linux on the desktop>

      "and so forth..."

      If you're going to make a point like this, it's probably work making the point also that there are rabid minds on both sides of the argument, but then you don't believe that do you as this is some sort of whacked out quasi-theological debate where any freetard comment is gospel.

      And you guys talk about Jobs as the second coming? lol.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Baby talk

      @Daniel Palmer "...yet my small child was able to pick up my iPhone and use it despite only being minutes out of the womb"

      "Goo Goo Goo" presumably.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Now the real deal can begin

    I see that the private plane full of covert Redmond patent trolls has arrived at Espoo, FI to show those Finns how Microsoft does it.

  7. b0llchit Silver badge
    Stop

    Popcorn, more popcorn

    I suggest that it becomes law that the filing party in a patent case is mandated to provide popcorn to anyone, where ever on this planet, be provided with free popcorn in any desired flavor to anyone who might want it.

  8. The BigYin

    Who cares

    Apple sues Google

    Nokia sues Apple

    LG sues Sony

    Sony sues...

    Look, guys. Get a clue. You are wasting more on lawyers than it would cost you to just ditch the patents and stop the bitch-fight.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Not exactly

      If they ditched patents, they would be much more open to competition from startups and/or emerging markets' copycats. They are paying the lawyers to effectively stifle the competition.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @AC

        And conversely, with no patent system, the startups would be far more vulnerable to attack from the major players. A one man operation would not be able to innovate, because anyone could just take their ideas for their own.

        It's a double edged sword and it cuts both ways, some major companies can be patent bullies, some minor players are able to operate. In reality the best way to deal with the problem is not "no patents" or "patent trolling for all" but somewhere inbetween.

        1. MacroRodent Silver badge

          one-man ops and patents

          "A one man operation would not be able to innovate, because anyone could just take their ideas for their own."

          The problem is this often happens anyway, even with patents. Just having a patent is not enough. You need the $$$ and legal expertise to defend it and make good licensing deals, which is where the one-man operation often loses the game. It might not make so much difference for him if there were no patents. Except that then the one-man operation would be able to also freely use inventions from the big corps as part of his work, and might be able to beat the behemoths (who tend to squash good ideas by bureacracy and NIH attitudes) by sheer nimbleness!

  9. envmod
    Thumb Down

    supposing....

    they win and get an import ban - would this not piss an awful lot of "ordinary" people off and make Nokia seem like the bad guy? imagine if millions of people face not being able to purchase their beloved ipads and iphones due (in their mind) to some needless and spiteful legal action taken by a bunch of Finns.

    i suspect it might incite a lot of people to boycott Nokia products and make the already hard task of competing in the smart phone market, even harder.

    IMO, this action is counterproductive and potentially the final nail in Nokia's coffin.

    1. Nexox Enigma

      Nah, it wouldn't go that far

      As soon as Apple is looking at the wrong end of an import ban, they'll settle w/ Nokia on licensing or some such. Chances are the only thing any of their customers will hear is "Apple gives Nokia $x (m|b)illion dollars for blah blah blah" and their share prices will adjust accordingly.

      But yeah the real point of the lawsuits isn't to fight existing competitors, it's to keep smaller players from skipping licensing patents from the big guys, thus preventing the small competitors from actually posing a threat. "Well it seems that it's time to renew that license, and you're now taking our market share... so we're going to be creatively adjusting the terms a bit, alright?"

    2. Dazed and Confused

      It's about $$$

      Nokia doesn't really want to stop Apple products being imported into the US.

      Nokia wants Apple to sit up and take notice.

      There is a large patent pool you need access to make a mobile phone, Apple refuse to pay anyone anything for any IP.

      The idea of asking for an import ban is that it stops the arguments running through the courts for donkey years. As it stands at the moment, the longer the infringing party can spin out the court case the longer they have to wait before coughing up. So there is every incentive to take as long as you possibly can.

      By being granted a import ban it forces the infringing party to pay up fast, coz they are out of the business till they do pay.

      It's just all about the money.

      I think that Apple have also asked for all Nokia products to be banned for import too.

  10. petur
    FAIL

    RE: Multitasking

    You really missed the obvious joke about iphones and multitasking....

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    Are Nokia...

    ...the new SCO?

  12. Dan 55 Silver badge
    Alert

    They've got an uphill struggle on...

    A foreign company going to the US to sue a US company only ends in tears.

    1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      re: Uphill Struggle

      I hope you realise that Nokia is Listed on the NYSE?

      http://www.google.co.uk/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:NOK

      Not as foreign as you think especially after the MS deal....

  13. Lars Silver badge
    WTF?

    The name of the game

    Apple sues Nokia, Nokia counter sues Apple, Lawyers get still fatter. The whole patent system is rotten, especially in the US. Agreements are reached out side the court, and life goes on.

    Personally, I very much doubt, a start up in cell phones, like Apple has all that much to fight with. Of course they have the advantage of a head office in the US.

    The real reason for all this suing escapes me but it seems to be the name of the game.

  14. Carol Orlowski
    FAIL

    Microsoft lobs more patent claims at Apple via Nokia.

    Fixed it for ya...

  15. Andus McCoatover

    This doesn't quite read right...

    "The International Trade Commission has the power to prevent patent-infringing products being imported into the USA, which is what Nokia would like to see. "

    -??-

    1. SkippyBing

      I think you'll find

      most Apple products are made in China, hence the need to import them to America if they want to sell any there.

  16. BristolBachelor Gold badge

    Nokia Patents

    "...Nokia claims they cover aspects of multi-tasking, synchronisation, positioning, call quality and Bluetooth management..."

    If Nokia has worthwile patents on synchronisation, call quality and Bluetooth management, why are our Nokia phones so S**T at these?

    1. Eric Hood

      The post is required, and must contain letters.

      Perhaps your phone is faulty. My Nokias are superb at call quality & reception. I have no issues synchronising calendars, email and music.

      Get yourself an N8. I replaced my N95 with this. I did not think it possible the N95s call quality and reception could be bettered however the N8 has done this.

      Now to address the article.

      Apple are complaining that Nokia wanted more money from them than other companies Nokia licensed its patents to and required as part of the deal that Apple cross licence all their mobile patents. Apple refused and so it started.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Some points

    Patent on multitasking? No, a patent on a specific IMPLEMENTATION of multitasking, Yes. Please go and find out what patents are really about first please....

    Whether MS have access to the Nokia patent portfolio will have to wait until the deal between the two companies becomes public - in a similar manner to the cross licensing deals between other companies...

    To those who now think this is poor Apple being beaten down by nasty Nokia? Think, building a mobile phone is not just buying a few off-the-shelf components. Nokia, Motorolla, Ericsson etc invested a massive amount of money, time and people to develop these technologies - why should Apple or anyone else for that matter just steal it? I guess some of you complaining now would be first to moan if *your* technology, inventions etc were being ripped off by a competitor.

  18. ich
    WTF?

    I might be gullible..

    But having looked at some of the patent portofolio that Nokia holds, I keep wondering how the heck Apple managed to escape in round 1. Oh wait, it was a US federal court.

    Come on, everyone else seems to be paying the finns their deserved royalties but Apple.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    The Finn's

    aren't demanding the others cross-licence patents as well as paying the fees.

  20. patent litigation

    As noted by Alexander Poltorak at GPC...

    As noted by Alexander Poltorak at GPC: "One cannot help wondering if the latest round [of suits between Apple and Nokia] is not a proxy for a fight between Microsoft and Apple, which are rivals as well." It's questionable whether these mobile wars should take place in the courts, in the form of patent litigation, or should be properly restricted to the marketplace, where they rightfully belong. Whatever one's position on the issue, however, as long as IP rights exist, then patentees have every legal right to enforce them.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703806304576245064194577624.html#ixzz1Ikhfbier

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