'iPad cads' dash fanboi fondleslab hopes

If you've tried and failed to snag the latest Cupertinian shiny-shiny – aka the iPad 2 – perhaps the reason is not merely the herd of legitimate iPad purchasers crowding Apple's retail stores. Perhaps you've been outmaneuvered by what the New York Post has labeled "iPad cads". "A cutthroat Asian group has set its crosshairs on …

[XMAN]

Odd

It all sounds rather odd. I was in Tokyo last week (a couple of days before the earthquake) and I could have quite easily bought an ipad2 in many of the shops. There were no massive lines or people fighting to get their hands on them.

Perhaps because in Tokyo there's about 20 alternatives which blow you away with features and build quality.

[a_been]

Orly

Yes, it all sound rather odd, "a couple of days before the earthquake" would be a couple of days before the relese of the iPad 2 in the USA and a couple of weeks before the now postponed relese in Japan.

Perhaps your just making shit up.

[Anonymous Coward]

That's odd

[trolling alert] Checked this guys other posts and he doesn't even appear to be an Fandroid. Usually it's the Fandroids that make stuff up, like "bought an iPhone, returned it to the shop because the UI was shit," "I could have afforded both an Android handset or an iPhone but I went for Android out of choice because it's better," or "my opposition to closed systems is out of principle and has nothing to do with being a Freetard"

[Lord Elpuss]

Yeeeeesssss

Now that's not really true at all, is it? Come on, I'll give you one more chance to admit you just made that up otherwise it's the Naughty Step for you.

[Anonymous Coward]

Ha ha..

...busted.

And in paragraph two, I'll give you "features"...but build quality? I've set to see a tablet match apples build quality; the samsung comes close, but if the PC world demo unit is anything to go by, the plastic case has fine whispy scratch marks on it in a matter of weeks (months for normal use, I suspect). And it creaked slightly.

Back under the bridge for you.

[Captain Underpants]

Is that the scent of lingerie aflame wafting gently from your nether regions?

As per other posters, I can't help suspect you're telling porkies. I'm prepared to believe that Apple have less of a rabid fanbase in Japan, but you'd make yourself more credible if you were to cite some examples of the wonderful alternatives you mention. Bonus points if you can also cite sales figures with verifiable sources.

[Steen Hive]

Nefarious?

What? Sounds like pure, honest-to-goodness capitalism to me.

Last I heard, an iThing wasn't a staple foodstuff or anything, so if the even harder-of-thinking are prepared to pay more than the already hard-of-thinking for a piece of inconsequential tat, fair play to these sharp-witted entrepreneurs.

[Arctic fox]

Re Nefarious? Indeed, it does not seem in principle......

..........any different from what has been Apple's usual pricing policy - screw the market for what you can get. In this instance much facilitated by the company's apparent inability to produce even a ballpark guess concerning initial sales with the result that there are massive shortages. Though it has to be said that if someone is so sad that they are willing to part with up to 2000 dollars they almost deserve to be ripped off. The new iPad seems to be a decent piece of kit (not my kind of thing but each to their own and all that) and Apple's own pricing this time somewhat less of a piss-take. However if they release before they have ensured adequate supplies their loyal/deranged punters are going to get screwed.

[a_been]

I hate retards

WTF, better not to sell out than to sell out. Which company anywhere would rather make less profit than more? I can see the reason for a few weeks of holding back to get publicity (Sony were accused of that with the PS2 in the UK) but since Steve "God or Anti-Christ" Jobs has stated that they can't keep up with demand, im gona belive him. Just because when you lie to shareholders you can go to gaol.

Also i sugest you read "the wealth of nations" and then ask if the mac saves me 15 minutes a week, how much is 13 hours per year of my time worth? If your flipping burgers, probably not a lot. However Apple dosnt price for burger flippers, your "normal crap" about Apple being over priced would apply to Dell, HP and every PC maker, I'v built my own PC's and have got a £2000 PC for about £1100 and that giving benefit to the PC makers as i have reserched things like "chip glue" but i'v done that because im a bit of a geek (owned a BBC model B*) and so i do it for fun.

That's why Apple and Linux will alway find it very very very hard to get on the desktop. As long as Microsoft sell the OS at a lower cost than the training to move to different or free software, most businesses wont move.

*spectrum, zx81, comodore, also an intelvision though that wasn't a computer and used an amserad, oric, pet, tsr ??? and did see a Dragon, ok also vic-20 :)

[Anomalous Cowturd]

Here, let me rephrase that for you...

There's no word, however, about exactly how many of those fondleslabs are winging their way "back" to China at this very moment. ®

[Eduard Coli]

This or that

One would think it would be easier just to run an off shift at the iFondle plant in the PRC?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmmmm...

So SF's store sold out on Sunday, but managed to get more stock in time for Tuesday... Doesn't look like they were having to wait for more stock to be made, just trucked in from a warehouse...

Sounds like the normal Apple understock and feed the "sold out in 20 minutes" hype.

[AlexS]

Thankyou!

I was hoping there would be another iPad article today, my wishes are fulfilled ;)... Look forward to tomorrow.

[Anonymous Coward]

Is there a problem?

I see nothing wrong with these people buying these iPads and reselling them. The scarcity is entirely an artificial Apple marketing gimmick. Congratulations to those who figure out how to exploit it. Their exploitation only works if people are willing to but the things at the exorbitant resale price.

[Wyrdness]

Artificial scarcity?

Apparently iPad 1 sold around 300,000 units at launch. So if you were Apple, how many units would you have manufactured for the launch of iPad 2, given that unsold units are going to cost you money in warehousing? Most reports are saying that they've sold around a million this time. So it's entirely probable that the shortages are genuine. They don't need to artificially create demand, it's so high that they're having to turn large numbers of customers away.

[Arctic fox]

Yes, artificial - Apple's Fail.

Companies like Apple do a lot of market research to ensure they do not make a fuck-up like this. It is not possible to believe that Cupertino simply based a rough guess on the number of iPad 1s they sold. Either it was deliberate or Mr Jobs should fire the entire marketing dept because they are clearly not doing their Jobs (pun committed with malice aforethought).

First time I've ever used this icon but this time I am in no doubts that they deserve it on this occasion. A marketing fuck-up like this from a company famous for its marketing expertise? No, it was deliberate.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Artificial scarcity?

"how many units would you have manufactured for the launch of iPad 2, given that unsold units are going to cost you money in warehousing?"

What do you think they do. Phone China and tell them to whip up another one when they get a new customer?

The only efficient way to stock up for the release is having the production lines working flat out for months. as for storage, ever heard of shipping containers.

And anyway, how much is it going to effect profits to store such a small box that sells for the best part of a grand?

If Apple "ran out" (held back stock more like) so soon it was deliberate.

[Anonymous Coward]

Lazy, Norfolk 'n' Goode...

Boiler-plaiting ABA bollocks as per usual. You can 'tin hat' all you like, call Apple names and whatnot and describe their kit as toys if it makes you feel better and feel less left out, but making shit up isn't on; £429 is not, never has been and never will be 'the best part of a grand'. The phrase means something that nearly £1000. Even with the most expensive 3G model costing £680, you'd be hard pushed to call 'the best part of a grand', the best part of £700 probably! You millions of trolls don't 'alf exaggerate...

[Anonymous Coward]

Doh! Read the article

They were quoting in dollars - $829 is pretty close to a grand

Or you be trolling the trolls

[Captain Underpants]

@AC 07:38 - Joust by your own Picard much?

In fairness, the article itself quotes a top-end tablet costing $829. If you're thinking in dollars (which you'd expect, when commenting on a story describing an incident taking place in a country using dollars as their currency...), that is in fact the best part of a grand. Given that the cheapest option without any shinies whatsoever is $500, it's not unreasonable to think of the iPad as a box that will, per sale, bring in a sizeable chunk of a grand, especially if you're dealing with sales droids who know how to sell the upgrades and accessories.

[fredfox]

$829 is best part of a grand though

"When a Post reporter asked an iPad cad how much he wanted for a top-of-the-line tablet, which retails for $829, "one of the rogues demanded more than twice what it was just bought for – $1,700.""

[Anonymous Coward]

RE:

He/She still has a point. An iPad boxed and ready to be sold takes up about the same amount of space as a cereal box. They only sell for a quid or two, whereas the iPad sells for as much as 600 times that.

I doubt storage is an issue, and this is more likely a marketing trick (not to mention, I'm sure apple supports the capitalism of these people selling them on)

[bitten]

Sell, sell!

Why stock for tomorrow if you can sell a million units today ?

[Wyrdness]

(untitled)

So you're seriously trying to tell me that shipping a *million* units of something is artificially restricting supply? Get real.

[Darryl]

Yeah

...because headlines shouting "iPads sold out around the world! Customers lining up for new shipments!" are a lot more attractive to Apple's marketing department than "iPads readily available! Take your time, there are lots on the shelves!"

[a_been]

No, try not to be a dick Darryl

Wouldn't it be better "Apple sell 1.5 million" ? You know like killing Samsung sales in 2 days!

[Neoc]

Re: Artificial scarcity...

Careful about quoting numbers... "300,000 units sold at launch" does not make your point for you. It could mean "There was only enough demand to sell 300,000 units on launch", yes, but it could also mean "Apple only supplied 300,000 unit for the launch for publicity's sake and they all sold out, leaving people waiting for the next batch Apple released".

Remember, numbers and statistics don't mean a damn thing unless they are put in context.

[Arctic fox]

@Neoc Re: Re:Artificial scarcity

Indeed, it is difficult to believe that is not what they did. Well knowing that a certain proportion of their supporters would behave in the desperate way we are now seeing with the consequent loads of publicity around these stories of people paying 2 - 3 times the retail price on the "black market". It serves their publicity purpose of portraying the iPad at the absolute must-have shiney. Nothing could serve that aim more than the stories we are now seeing. The alternative is to believe that the production and marketing people at Apple are grotesquely incompetent in regard to several of their key tasks: predicting, managing and meeting demand. What ever one might say about Apple, THAT I just do not believe. Given the (largely well deserved, I have no problem saying that) huge success they have had with iPad 1 and the expectations that were building up ahead of a pretty much simultaneous world-wide launch of iPad 2 (in comparison to the "roll out" approach they used with iPad 1, USA first, natch) we are expected to believe that they thought that an initial production run of 500 K was going to be enough? My only response to anyone asserting that is "get out of here"!

[sabroni]

Difficult to believe..

..that you know what you're talking about. Doesn't mean you don't though...

WRT artificially running out of product, Occam's razor would suggest that Apple did indeed miscalculate demand. It's not impossible that they did this on purpose but, as with nintendo not having enough wiis to sell, I've yet to see any convincing evidence that this is deliberate.

[a_been]

Post anonymously?

Never confuse idiots with sence.

[Anonymous Coward]

HA HA

This is what you get with stupidly low supplies of a product you know will sell.

Early adopters are idiots anyway.

The trick is, wait until the idiots have paid their $2000 then buy it at $829 or what ever.

They can laugh that they have had the fondle slab 2 for longer but you can laugh about the price. You can buy 2.....

Please note, I would not own an Apple product .

[Rich 30]

2?

You could have 3,

One $829 one, and a couple of $499, and buy yourself a a few beers to celebrate, and a taxi home, and paracetamol for the morning.

[Tringle]

Gouge them mercilessly, leave no wallet unturned.

Personally I wish I could think of something as essentially useless as an iPad and get paid loads for selling it to fashion victims.

They cost more here in France (you could buy 2/3 netbooks for the same money, or a fully specified laptop), consequently when coupled with the stupidly high cost of mobile contracts, they aren't selling too many.

It's not just Apple's pads that I wouldn't touch with a bargepole, it's the whole genre. The idea of a screen covered in finger prints is just gross. Do you drive your car by rubbing your mits all over the windscreen? That would be daft, and so is smearing the visual interface of your computing device.

[a_been]

Yeah

You should have stoped after "Personally I wish I could think", it's easy to see why people would wont one and how it would be usefull, anyone neededing access to a warehouse inventory would find it usefull. Thats a massive market in itself. How about running mantinence for cars, planes, computers? It's already been aproved by the FAA for use in cockpits which will save billions. It has the the ability to give us what the PC promised in the early days "the paperless office". That failed, we got more paper thanks partly to Apple but the IPAD and the copies could change that. Who will win, Apple early but as Apple showed with the retina screen, lond term it's a comodity buisiness, so im guessing ARM. Tech is getting good enougth that sound, vision and display will hit the eyeball and ear limit at which time it comes down to price.

Look at Hayes or Commodore, good tek dosn't beat good enough at a much lower price, though in Commodore there where mangement failers.

[Anonymous Coward]

That sounds like a club I want to be in.

NOT!

[Fred Flintstone]

I am quite happy to wait..

I'm happy that so many do the beta testing for me - at higher cost. I'll just wait a few months until the first kinks are out of it, and then I'll see if I still have a use for it. If so, I'll buy it. By then prices will have settled..

[JaitcH]

Jobs will be jealous - someone making more profit than he does on ...

iThings.

Watch for sneak attack through the T & C's - only original purchasers will be entitled to 'warranty; and support in the first 12 months following sale.

Of course, Apple warranties are like jelly - hard to fix down.

[a_been]

Just a question

Do you always have to feel a need to prove you are an arshole or do you get paid?

[Rich 30]

news?

I could have guessed this. Same thing happens/happened at the London based Apple stores. Asian (read Indian, or similar, not Chinese or similar) gangs would queue up on delivery days, buy as many iPhones as possible, then ship them to countries which dont sell iPhones for sweet, sweet profit.

Yes, its very annoying for people who want to buy an iphone to actually use it. Infact, in many ways, its like ticket-touting. However, apple could just make more iPhones, or sell them more places? Aurely if they made more, they would actually be cheaper to make aswell? Profit for them too. (more so)

[a_been]

O'rly

"However, apple could just make more iPhones, or sell them more places?" what you think they have a star trek replicator or can see into the future? For fuck, just order one and you will get it in 3-4 weeks which i will assume will be earlier than us brits.

[Rich 30]

yes..

step 1) buy/rent more factory

step 2) buy/rent more staff

stef 3) build more iphones

[Stewart Knight]

It's not about the numbers.....

It's about the desirability.

Sell less, and they become more valuable (look at the Wii, the VW Beetle and the BMW Mini when they 1st came out).

Next time you make / renew a product, you're going to have muppets queueing round the corner salivating like flesh hungry zombies.

You "claim" a shortage, and two days later more limited numbers arrive in store.

You sell shed loads, people think they're desirable, because they are "rare", but the stock flies out the store quicker that if there were thousands available in store, and no-one felt that they would be left out.

It's the economics of idiots. Treat someone like an idiot, but put an apple logo on it, and they will behave like idiots and fall for this vulgar marketing ploy

[sabroni]

that's plausible

it that what passes for evidence around here now?

I understand the concept, but this is just a theory at the moment. Can someone, anyone, point to any real evidence that there is a stockpile of devices that is being withheld from punters to drive the price up?

Downvotes don't count as evidence, but feel free to click anyway....

[Steve Evans]

Re: It's not about the numbers

I assume you are talking about the recent Golf in old clothing Beetle, and not the Fuhrers people car that he pumped off the production line in huge volumes before deciding it would be more fun to invade Poland, France and then make a very ill advised stab at Russia just as winter approached?

[a_been]

It's the economics of idiots

No your an idiot for not understanding such things as economics, heres a clue "keynes" was an idiot but he justified shit that helped politicians belive they could work out shit instead of being lieing shits.

[wraith404]

I love it

People who buy icrap have more money than sence, they deserve this.

[Francis Vaughan]

Leadtime

One thing that most of the conspiracy theorists supporting the idea that it is an engineered scarcity forget is that there is a clear lead time need to build up stocks. The factories do not have infinite capacity - Apple can't simply order an additional 500,000 to be delivered Friday. The factory production lines will be sized for an estimated average production need, too big and you waste money on unneeded capability. For a product release Apple have to balance the time of beginning of production, which is largely determined by the product readiness, the desired time of release, and the number of units Apple want on have on hand at the time of release. There were persistent rumors of production delays due to last minute redesign, which if you believe them would alone account for a significant shortfall of stock at launch time. Apple really like their release cycles and it would not be at all surprising to find that the decision to release on the date was given precedence over lead time to build stock.

[a_been]

Your problem is

Your thinking, logic is never good with the haters. Or sanity, a lot of the wankers here will never allow logic to enter their brains because they feel threatened by people not buying the shit they buy. Also 8 year old Nokie, still going strong though the battery only last a couple of days :(

[HP Cynic]

Tin Hat 2

The "Gang of Asians" were probably working for Apple anyway - what a great way to massively increase profits above and beyond their infamous "Apple Tax".

Discuss.

Anyone willing to pay $2K to get this minor-upgrade to a vaguely useful device just a few days early is rich/stupid and deserves to be ripped off/has so much spare change they won't care one jot.

Delete as applicable.

Also remember there's the phenomena of "Conspicuous Consumption" where people will deliberately pay more for essentially no additional benefit but to highlight their wealth or status: see the "Im Rich" App, gold-plated devices and now iPad 2's from "Gangs of Asians", "Collector's Editions" of computer games and so on :P

[tiggertaebo]

Sound strategy != conspiracy

There's not really enough info to determine if the lack of supply is deliberately engineered there is no denying that it certainly doesn't hurt Apple and the extra "hype" generated actually helps with the product's image and probably their whole brand image. If you were looking at buying a gadget and there were two different products, one that was in plentiful supply and one that was generating worldwide headlines for selling out if you knew nothing else to differentiate them then you'd probably automatically think that the sold out one must be the "better" product.

So why on earth would they spend the extra time/resources to ensure a greater stock level at launch? Generally if someone has decided they want an iPad then they aren't going to change to a competitor just because they will have to wait a day or two for their desired fondleslab so they aren't going to lose any sales and the buzz might even generate them more in the long term.

[Arctic fox]

Apparently the incompetence theory is doing the rounds

It looks like leading Apple supporters are not so impressed with Cupertino this time. They do not of course buy the "they did it on purpose" theory but they are not exactly kindly in their criticism of the Fruit Store. The criticism we can see here: ( http://www.zdnet.com/blog/apple?tag=mantle_skin;content ) from Jason D. O'Grady & David Morgenstern (two Appleheads from way back when) at ZDNet is just one example of the feelings amongst many of the company's keenest supporters that are circulating on the net.

Basically you can pick your theory; *deliberate tactic* or *major league incompetence* on this occasion.