Apple bans iPhone 3G patch omission talk from forum A Reg reader who brought up Apple's decision to exclude the iPhone 3G and other older devices from its latest security update on an official forum has received a firm rebuke for his effort. Apparently the post, which was quickly deleted, failed three separate rules of the Apple Discussions soviet, as a curt notice to our …
I can't buy new shiny because...
1) my bloody contract isn't over yet!!! And I don't want to get stuck with this bloody service provider for yet another 2 years.
2) I'm not a rich spoiled brat who can buy a new 800 USD phone every year. 800 USD this year on a phone means spending 800USD less on other hi-tech toys (like that required laptop for school!!!)
3) I'm not a mommy's boy and have to PAY rent, electricity, food, car, insurance, medical bills etc... There simply isn't enough left for that 800USD phone every year.
4) If I spend yet another 800USD on a phone my girlfriend/wife will declare war on me and leave (because I can't spend that 800USD on her anymore). Then I have to pay rent etc... alone which I can't because my boss doesn't pay me enough!
Spending +800USD on an electronic gimmick each and every year just because it's new, has nothing to do with improving living conditions but all with decadence.
IMHO A phone shouldn't cost more then 400USD tops even one with fruit logo.
Anyway. Since Apple sells these Iphone 3G's upto 2009 they should honor the warranty period (which is 2 years in Europe) and hence supply updates for at least these 2 years. In reality this means onto the end of 2011. So all those morons calling us cheap are a bit premature.
Well don't bloody buy one then. Know how much I want to spend on cars? As little as possible. I don't buy a Mercedes then go bleating to them about what a pauper I am. (I am a pauper, I just don't bleat to Mercedes about it.)
PS. Is Mercedes still a status symbol thingy or common as muck and driven by oiks? That's BMW isn't it? Should I have said Bentley?
And is that phone 3+ years old? Well, bit of a shame if they're not fixing security issues, but I'd be inclined not to do my secure transactions on a phone in any case.
And here I thought at least here in the States we were in a recession and compared to say food or rent for many people paying the Steve Jobs new shiny tax was pretty far down the list. I wish I had a customer base though fairly small number wise were incredible stupid with their money and would wait in long lines to throw it at me.
I have two important non-functional requirements when being asked to select software to purchase in a business setting. These are an open defect/support system (such as Jira) so that anybody can look at anything and open / uncensored forums. Yes, you can't always have what you ask for but it's held me in good stead to stick to these wherever possible. I'm far more trusting of a company that is open to and accepting of criticism.
Just because it's not getting 4.3 does NOT mean it's not getting patches. After 4.x, Apple did promise to maintain security only patches for the 3.x line for at least some time. No additional security exploits have been known to be exploited for the 3.x line, so there have been no additional patches. However, 4.2 has several known exploits (just demonstrated this week), and it WILL be patched, but it will not move to 4.3. Apple won't simply add security patches "just because," but if an exploit is DEMONSTRATED, they have promised to close those holes.
The 3GS is also nearing 2 years old, name another phone released near 2 years ago that saw patches after 1 year on the market and I'll give you 5 released in the last 12 months that have already been publicly cut off from all future updates...
Didn't Apple state this, rather than delete the post? Sounds like FUD, tbh...
"The 3GS is also nearing 2 years old, name another phone released near 2 years ago that saw patches after 1 year on the market and I'll give you 5 released in the last 12 months that have already been publicly cut off from all future updates..."
Just cause other manufacturers aren't doing it, doesn't mean they shouldn't... After all, don't Apple always lead by example?
Apple should have politely responded with facts, as best they know them. It's fine to say the issue is iether (a) on their radar and fixes are coming or (b) we don't see the issue.
But they deleted the post altogether, saying it shouldn't exist. That's not effective customer management.
That the planned obsolescence in mobile phones is not an Apple thing, it's a whole industry thing. As poor as Apple might well seem to be, they're still actually one of the better ones in this regard. Still I suppose its easier to snark about one supplier you don't like than think objectively about what it says about the whole industry eh?
"However, 4.2 has several known exploits (just demonstrated this week), and it WILL be patched, but it will not move to 4.3. Apple won't simply add security patches "just because," but if an exploit is DEMONSTRATED, they have promised to close those holes."
Eh?? If an exploit is demonstrated they will patch it? By your own admission, it has been demonstrated already. 4.3 is released and has patched the 3GS and 4. I'm waiting for my 3G to have it's security failures resolved. You let me know when they're planning to meet their promise.
Perhaps I should charitably assume that you meant they're waiting for an exploit to appear in the wild before patching? Brilliant. As an aside, I have a horse in a stable with no means of keeping it there. Fortunately I have a massive padlock waiting to go, just as soon as I see the horse bolt.
Not being an Apple freak I went into their Norwich store the other day (I know, I know, I went that shit-ole called Norwich, but hey, I later paid my £5 and flew away again) and had a look at an Apple laptop. How crap are they? There is a backspace key but no delete key.
And they have won awards? For what, shitty design?
I am 'fairly' sure that iOS4 is only available on the same hardware (eg. Iphone 3gs, iPhone4, new iPod touches etc) as this new update.
As such, being surprised that you cant update a piece of software you don't have, seems a bit odd.
But I could be wrong
That is not to say that I think they way this is handled is right, at the least the security updates should be issued. However that isn't really Apple's style. One iOS for all devices, updates happen to all that can take them, those that cant get nothing.
Sorry that's incorrect. iOS 4.2.1 is available for the 3G iPhone.
The thing that I don't like about this is the implication that this is an incremental update, which is how the public will (and are obviously) perceiving it. As such the impliction is that it will be installable on all devices that can currently run any iteration of iOS 4.x.
If it can't run on older hardware (for whatever reason) then it should get a whole number version name update.
I relay dislike this practices myself of v XX.X.XX a few software vendors like to use (I'm looking at you mr Forefox 3.6.15 and Apple OSX 10.4.11). there's no need for that many double digit sub numbers (I'm sorry I don't know what there correct term is, percentages are they?),I wish they would stop doing it.
End rant.
Totally agree with your principle that the version number should increase if it's a new version with changed scope.
But you missed the point.
Apple needs to keep the headline number the same to match the headline number of the hardware, otherwise the Fanbois simply won't be able to handle the confusion.
Can you image their brains exploding: "I've got an iPhone 4, but it's running iOS 5. Does not compute" Boom!
If memory serves, the syntax is version dot mod dot revision. Or, in non-tech speak: software, things added to the software, bugfixes. The third part is optional, and software devs should be lauded when they're actually willing to admit how many times they've had to patch bugs in their code.
Apple's forum rules are upheld pretty tightly, I get told off weekly for being 'harsh' in my posts.
In their defence, the forums are there as a user-user help resource and posting feedback aimed at Apple, polls or speculation/wider discussion about any Apple policy of unreleased product is strictly off-topic.
That's all made clear when we sign up. Doesn't make it less annoying when you get their email template in your inbox though!
I would like to congratulate you on the foresight you have shown into the El Reg community as illustrated by the use of "user-user help" instead of "user-user support".
But on a more serious note. This wouldn't be such a story if it wasn't for the fact that Apple have a history which shows a strong desire to silence their critics. The BBC are often accused of being Apple fanbois. Even they once openly stated at the end of a BBC click program that Apple threatened a "damaged relationship" if they were to run a particular story though.
Perhaps the 3g Cr*pple phone owners should flood the store where some nice vacant miss-adviser will tell them how to protect their ex-pride and joy. Just leave it in the box and never power it on, it is a work of art, not something to be exposed to the nasty real world. After all if you switch it on them it might be compromised and nothing from cr*pple ever gets compromised, (except the rubbish design weaknesses).
So "end of life" doesn't actually mean end of life? If a product is EOL'd, doesn't that mean that it's no longer supported?
Besides, if you're _that_ worried that the websites you visit are going to be maliciously crafted to pwn your iPhone then you should pony up and upgrade to a current model like the rest of the world has.
"Besides, if you're _that_ worried that the websites you visit are going to be maliciously crafted to pwn your iPhone then you should pony up and upgrade to a current model like the rest of the world has."
Obviously! Why should you expect to be able to use the thing you bought when it is still in perfect working order?
How dare this rabble rouser point out Jobs beloved business model of forced obsolescence. Its not enough Apple charges obscene markups but to keep Wall St happy they need to bleed the Mactards hard every few years on their beloved gadgets. Whats amazing is not Apples behavior (just good ole capitalists) but all the sheeple that actually wait in long queues to be the first to get shafted by Apple in the name of a "superior" experience (I guess certain people say same thing about S&M hookers).
I was going to post some sort of witty and sarcastic put down of apple because of their lack of willingness to fix security issues in their products...
I was going to have a pop at the way apple do not like to read anything negative about themselves on any media that they control.
I was going to say that this sort of crap is exactly why I will never buy a apple product, but whenever I do post anything along those lines on other comments regarding apple, I get a whole flurry of down votes.. It makes me wonder how anyone can actually down vote a statement of fact.
@aahjnnot Don't confuse a 3G with a 3GS. There are phones only six months old unable to get any updates at all. The 3GS is still currently available, the 3G not so. The newer version of Safari requires more ram than the 3G has.
Just in the same way that up-to-date hardware needs up-to-date software. I'll agree that is an over simplification.
"After 4.x, Apple did promise to maintain security only patches for the 3.x line for at least some time. No additional security exploits have been known to be exploited for the 3.x line, so there have been no additional patches. However, 4.2 has several known exploits (just demonstrated this week), and it WILL be patched, but it will not move to 4.3. Apple won't simply add security patches "just because," but if an exploit is DEMONSTRATED, they have promised to close those holes."
Err... well, they broke said promise, given the PDF font exploit that allows a mallicious website to gain root access to the iPhone (used by the famous JailbreakMe website for good purposes) has never been fixed for the iPhone 2G. Obviously this exploit has been demonstrated - JailbreakMe still works!
Apple have never fixed this for devices that do not run 4.0+ (i.e. the original iPhone and iPod Touch) and the exploit remains in the wild. Ironically the only way for iPhone 2G users to be safe is to jailbreak the device in order to change the root password from it's default of 'alpine'.
I'm genuinely curious, are there official updates for the Windows/Nokia/Android phones released 3 years ago (in Android's case it's a bit less than 3 years because it wasn't launched until Oct '08). In my experience most devices get one official update to the next version of their OS before the manufacturer stops supporting them. So for Apple to still be releasing updates for the 3G as recently as last November seems pretty reasonable to me. Or are we just ignoring other handset manufacturers' failings and putting the boot into Apple so we can look cool?
Don't forget that e.g. Nokia's cost about half the money that you pay for an iPhone. So expect ppl to use that iPhone twice as long (at least until the warranty period of 2 years is over).
My own Acer Neotouch (a shitty WM6.5 phone indeed) cost about 1/3 o/t iPhone from that generation. I still use it today because some of my (bought) apps that I require as a professional don't work in Winpho (thanks for screwing me up, Bill!). I too complained to acer about updates (especially since a lower specced model released a bit later has gotten a more recent WM6.5.3 version). I don't appreciate the fact that they too don't issue updates for a phone that, contrary to an iPhone 3G, is still powerful enough to get updated and still within the 2 year warranty period.
The problem is indeed not Apple alone. The unfortunate thing is that consumers are divided between several phone platforms which are hardware-a-like but OS-different and take more time bickering with each other over which phone is best; instead of pointing out manufacturer's responsibilities.
On the topic presented here. Apple could have answered a bit more politely instead of these gestapo-toned templates.
I generally am supportive of Apple support cycle. The three year support of updates for Macs allows a 4-5 year lifetime without the burden of supporting legacy hardware that causes so much headache and degrade the user experience.
OTOH, not including 3GS in this update is really not defensible. It is the previous generation device, and I am sure that some are still under Applecare warranty through the end of the year. I would imagine there might be some lawsuits over this.
OTOOH, though, Android has OS updates that do not support phones that are currently on the market, so this may be the new normal.
...my HTC Tatoo? It's younger than the 3G, yet I don't see articles bemoaning the fact that HTC,Samsung et al. have be considerably worse than Apple WRT handset support and updates. No, a a mod'ed ROM from MoDoCo doesn't count at all. HTC have all but ingored any questions about this or other forgotten devices.
Everyone knows HTC treats customers like crap anyway so no one would expect it.
But Apple actually treats customers well. If you don't believe it show me another large computer/phone manufacturer with the same satisfaction rate for support, or one who will replace user damaged smartphones for a single low price as long as they're not broken into pieces.
So everyone demands they go far and above anything else on the (phone) market.
It's a well known problem: you give a hand and people will want the whole arm.
The most popular smart phone OS (29%) and most of the ones in use aren't on the latest version of OS?
Remote kill switches that are used to wipe off apps that with no option to decline?
I'm not going to become a sheep by buying one of those Android phones.
Just need to come up with a pejorative term to describe their users: Androidgenous?
I guess you could always use a browser from another source, and maybe less vulnerable apps.
If Apple wasn't locking you in.
Does Apple's abandonment of the iPhone 3 mean that they will release it from its lockdown and let people install, *oficially*, apps from everywhere, or are people supposed to throw it in the bin because Lord Jobs has decreed it yesterday's newspaper?
I've got a 3GS but I haven't bothered to update it, I'm sticking with 4.2.1 and my jailbreak. There weren't any compelling features for me in 4.3. Apple: I love the products but the company is composed of utter wankers, once you understand that nothing they do surprises you.
I'd be interested in how the sale of goods act would work in this situation?
The fault was there at the time the product was purchased, its documented so you don't need to get someone to hack it to prove it, the retailer you purchased it from has to fix it, replace it, or give a suitable refund (dunno what people would consider is reasonable on this one).
Obviously Apple don't care, but the retailers such as O2 will quickly speak to the right people at Apple if they get 1000s of people returning their phones demanding their money back/upgrade/fix.
Three year old phone? good luck with that.
Manufacturers warranty only applies to the hardware, there is no warranty on software. There is no obligation to provide security fixes. It is a phone, not a bank vault.
What next? Windows 2000 and XP owners moaning they can't run the latest version of IE?
The problem is that iPhone 3G users whom are worried about this (in the UK for instance) are to scattered around. The change that those 1000 ppl reach each other and at one point issue, at the same time for best impact, a complaint is non-existent... and "they" know that. "They" are wealthy enough to take that change. Some might call that the "calculated risks of corporate capitalism". Others just call it greed.
At this point, I'm all for telling Apple to just "fuck off". This from someone who has been a fan of Apple products since 1984, when I purchased my first Mac.
From their actions in limiting what I can do with the various products I've purchased, to their increasingly bizarre decisions with respect to MacOSX which have made it harder and harder for me to create multi-platform applications, I reached my breaking point with their iPhone, which I refused to obtain.
Yes, their iMac line is superb hardware, and actually competitively priced if you compare like with like (and don't forget to price in "silence" as an option). But I purchased my last iMac a couple years ago, I'll never get an iPhone or iPad, and I'll never, ever use their iTunes (or App) store.
They're getting to be as bad as Microsoft, albeit in a completely different, more tyrannical direction. Sad, really.
You can generally get away with a bit of a polite whinge on the Apple Support Forums so long as you have a genuine question about any sort of error, malfunction, unexpected behaviour or usability issue, whether real or imagined, to go along with it.
Genuine users of the forum aren't interested in wading through post after post of rants looking for the answer to their particular problem. If I want to have a bitch about Apple, I'll come to this esteemed site or Mac news site. It's not often I have a bitch about them because I'm genuinely happy with the quality - yes quality - of the products and services they provide almost all the time.
When there is a real problem, as opposed to perceived and speculative, Apple generally issue a short statement along the lines "Apple is aware of the issue and will be releasing a fix in due course/as soon as possible. Click here for more information. In the meantime, click here for a work around."
This forum, which is after all owned and operated by Apple, is there to help their users with problems, not for a bitch-fest. The Reg forum amongst others is the appropriate place to rip a new orifice in Apple for any perceived, imagined, conspiratorial slight.
Yeah Apple are anal, neurotic and paranoid control freaks, we all know that. Just get over it.
the solution IS to buy a new phone, just not an iPhone.
there are many crap companies who, to increase sales, rip off there customers by forcing them to buy a new version of the product before the previous product is worn out or broken. Apple make suckers of their customers by making them pay through the nose, enforce loyalty to other products by making them less compatable with products by other companies - these kind of tactics are totally lacking in professional integrity - but then the big Jobs doesn't care, he's laughing all the way and always has been
the same thing with the iPad - an over priced bit of tech with some huge omissions (USB, Flash, etc) which is more compatable with Apple hardware than other brands - I can't help but think 'sucker' every time i see someone holding one
and lets not forget, without the Microsoft cash bail-out, Apple would be extinct
"and lets not forget, without the Microsoft cash bail-out, Apple would be extinct" that's the crux of it, isn't it. You are bitter at their success! Pathetic. Oh and had Apple not paid Bill and Paul and advance for BASIC in 1978 so they could pay off creditors, there would have been no Micros~1 plagerise their way their way to the top of the OS tree. Wonderful thing, hindsight.
My wife had one of these and T-Mobile stopped supporting it technically within her 12 month contract period - so if you had to do a reset and you lost your configuration you were screwed and basically left with an internet phone which wasn't
So its not only Apple who kick you in the nadgers.
I am wondering about a few thing. First I read that Apple is thinking about putting the next generation of iphone on a cloud. I am curious, if I have one of these cloud based I phones, will Apple turn my Iphone into a brick because they stop supporting my Iphone? So will my phone be cut off of cloud support two years after I buy it? Just thinking.
whatever the issue was in the case of this article, I'm not surprised. This is Apple forums. I've only been there a few times. My very first post there was deeply edited because I was mentioning applications ripping off the iPhone's contact list. Probably because I mentioned the apps names (Fring) and accused iOS of lacking protection against these at install time, no prompt etc... And when I ranted - politely - about the reasons why my post was edited, I received almost instantly a mail from the forum admins telling me that I infringed the forums policies by just asking why my post had been edited, that - in their view- that meant questioning Apple forum rules and this was not allowed either. I mean these guys at Apple discussions keep claiming that it's a user based forum but still, they are mandated by Apple to censor anything that could disturb the company. Basically this is one of the worse public forums I ever visited. In terms of technical value it's not really better: Whatever the issue is, 9 times out of then a poster is advised to reset his device.
Oh yeah, there's currently a bad issue affecting tens if users' iPod Touch showing graphics glitches following the 4.3 update ... no feedback so far. We've even been told - by mods - that Apple doesn't read the forums ... lol. If Microsoft is bad (which was never my opinion), I wonder what Apple is... a bunch of worshiping employees ruled by a local egomaniac, Steve Jobs. I mean I like the guys for some of his ideas, but too much is too much.
... yeah I forgot to mention that they of course deleted my post asking why the one before was edited :))) ... lol it's hard to respect people like that. I've posted on TechNet forums tens and tens of times and never had such issues. There's just no censorship on Technet (except in some extreme cases, obvious and repeated trolling etc...). Okay I'm done here for today ;)
"1. Firstly and perhaps most importantly: Moderation is at our discretion. We publish what we feel is fit for publication. We accept the vast majority of all comments posted, and we try to be broad-minded and consistent - but in the end if we don't want it published on our site, it doesn't go up. Correspondence will rarely be entered into on individual decisions."
So why are Apple being treated differently by you in this case? Ah! Sorry! We mustn't question The Register...
Unfortunately Apple has the right to act like that, but I simply consider that a bad policy. The current state of their iOS v4.3 makes it even worse for those who'd rather like to stick with the old version. Maybe you wanna read the short, linked article below. It lists some problems with the current iOS distribution.
http://tron-delta.org/en/news-articles/newsflash/ios-4.3.php
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