back to article Microsoft to Apple: 'Oh, yeah? Well, your font is too small'

Microsoft has filed another legal salvo at Apple in the ongoing dust-up over whether the term "App Store" is worthy of being trademarked. Microsoft's latest argument? That the font Apple used in its response to Redmond's opposition to the trademark application was too small. Seriously. We can't make this stuff up. Microsoft …

COMMENTS

This topic is closed for new posts.
  1. mafoo
    Headmaster

    Awesome

    Awesome, just awesome.

  2. Stupidscript

    Rules are Rules

    As an employee of a law firm, I can verify that documents submitted for filing with the courts are under strict regulations with regard to typeface size and style, in addition to margin widths, document length, and even extending to line-height and number of lines allowed per page. If Apple lawyers made inappropriate choices with regard to these elements, then Microsoft is correct to point them out to the court, and the court would be obliged to either dismiss Apple's documents outright or require resubmission of same with the accepted formatting. Every lawyer doing business before a court knows, or should know, what it's document filing requirements are.

    1. Ammaross Danan
      FAIL

      Font size

      "The main body of Apple's rebuttal, for the record, is 25 pages long, the table of contents is two pages, and the table of authorities – settled cases that support Apple's rebuttal – is four pages."

      Yes, for the record, it is 25 pages long. However, that's 25 pages in the smaller-than-mandated font. Change the font size back to 11 and they'll likely be over by a few pages. Margins and font size (14 vs 12 and the like) is a common way of making a college paper appear longer, hence why even profs mandate font size, type face, and margins. Break these rules and you get a FAIL, regardless of how good or close your paper was. Same principles should (and do) apply to courts. FAIL on Apple's part for their snafu. (they likely left the default font size and style on their iDoc writer. Silly them)

      1. Steve Evans

        Re: Font Size

        But just look at that line spacing, is that defined too? If not then they could get that down to 12 pages just by writing like a normal person!

        1. Tom 13

          Yes, the spacing is also required.

          Don't work in a law firm, but did support work for one of the local document farms. The court requirements are enough to make you yearn for The Penguin from Blues Brothers.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        yeah!!!!

        I once turned a 2.5 page paper into a 5 page paper...with judicious use of TeX. I probably spent more time getting the paper formatted well enough to make minimum page-count, margins, etc. than I did writing the paper itself. That was an excercise in kerning, line spacing, and other arcane arts that I no longer remember.

        Anonymous because while I may be crazy, I'm not stupid.

    2. J 3
      Joke

      Yeah, but...

      ...the designers thought it looked cooler that way.

    3. This post has been deleted by a moderator

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

        1. Miek
          Coat

          Re:@RobertLong

          Or even better yet maybe Robert managed to get himself a two-in-one and insulted a sysadmin working on some code.

        2. mike 32
          FAIL

          Well, that clears up

          what was deleted by the moderator :-)

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Yep

          "Nice reading comprehension - he only mentioned *working* in a law firm."

          I did read that just fine. I'm sure you think that the administrative staff in an organization bear no responsibility for the actions of their bosses, but I don't.

          "It's probable you just called a coder or a sysadmin "a parasite"."

          Makes no difference. Lie down with lawyers, get up with fleas.

          1. zanto

            grow up

            even if you think that a sys admin is responsible for the kind of people his employers are, calling him a parasite is not only rude, it's insulting and shows a distinct lack on intelligence on your part.

            and since you've demonstrated how retarded you are, let me spell it out for you.

            n-o-t a-l-l l-a-w-y-e-r-s a-r-e b-a-d p-e-o-p-l-e

            now run home to your mother and do your homework little one.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Troll

            Robert Long, regardless of version

            "Lie down with lawyers, get up with fleas"

            Sounds like his ex's divorce attorney was better than his :)

          3. This post has been deleted by its author

    4. Robin

      It's...

      "Every lawyer doing business before a court knows, or should know, what it's document filing requirements are."

      Blunders like that lead to ambiguities in your documents, me old china!

  3. Bit Brain
    Jobs Horns

    Reply from Steve Jobs

    You're reading it wrong.

    Sent from my iPhone

    1. J 3
      Joke

      Or...

      Just use a magnifying glass, no big deal.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    #winning

    Only mr sheen couldve thought that up.

    Sheen icon needed. Paris used instead.

  5. Cheshire Cat
    FAIL

    Microsoft claims "App store" is a generic...

    ... while of course, "Word" and "Windows" and not generic at all, no no...

    1. kain preacher

      no

      But I've never seen a product called word or windows. I've seen Microsoft windows , Microsoft windows 95 ,Microsoft windows 98, Microsoft windows 2000, Microsoft windows XP.

      I've seen MS word oh and Word perfect.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        no...

        You've not seen a product called Microsoft Windows - what you've seen is called Microsoft® Windows®. (hint: that's two separate trademarks - "Windows" is trademarked).

      2. Bub

        But Microsoft does consider just "Windows" a trademark

        See http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/en/us/IntellectualProperty/Trademarks/Usage/Windows.aspx

      3. Goat Jam
        Gates Horns

        Lindows

        Lindows (a Linux distribution) had to change their name merely because it "sounded" like Windows.

        This was ordered by some numpty in a court.

        If MS can lay claim to ownership of words that merely sound like their trademarked despite being extremely generic word then surely apple have the right to claim a much more specific phrase.

        Personally I think the whole thing is bollocks, and neither of these fricking corps should be able to do what they are doing but given MS have already set the standard when it comes to trademarking generic words it comes off as a bit rich to complain when other companies do similar in an even less egregious manner than their own.

        Apple haven't even got to the stage where they are complaining about soundalikes yet!

        1. Player_16

          Remember the Beatles...

          Apple Corps and Apple Computer (now Apple Inc.) over competing trademark rights?

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          MS paid Lindows ~$20M to drop the case

          In the US the court never ruled whether it was generic or not. MS tried very hard to stop a jury having to decide whether or not 'Windows' was generic. Within days of the last appeal ruling it was a question for the jury, and that Lindows had raides substantial questions about the validity of the trademark, MS paid Lindows an estimated $20M to settle the case and change their name.

      4. jai

        @kain preacher "never seen a product called windows"

        Really? I've got loads at home. I use it to let outside light in so that I don't have to keep the lights on all the time during the day.

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      Re:

      They're generic words, but not being used for their normal meaning.

      "Windows" may be a common noun, but they filed for the trademark in the context of Computer Operating Environments (As Amazon did with bookstores).

      Same for "Word" (is that even the trademark, isn't it "Microsoft Word"?). And even "Excel" - a fairly common word.

      They didn't try to trademark "Word Processor" or "Operating System"

      "App Store" on the other hand, in the field of stores selling apps? Come on!

      1. O RLY

        Word and Excel

        "Word" is not a registered trademark. "Excel" is.

      2. Twilight

        Windows and Trademark

        >>>"Windows" may be a common noun, but they filed for the trademark in the context of Computer Operating Environments (As Amazon did with bookstores).<<<

        Except that X Windows existed long before Microsoft Windows and MacOS also predated MS Windows by quite a bit (MacOS had windows but the OS/environment was not referred to as Windows). MS never should have been awarded a trademark on Windows.

        Then again, the US Trademark and Patent systems have been a massive joke for decades. Things awarded when either/both of obviousness and prior art tests are blatantly failed. :(

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          It's not "X Windows"...

          IIRC it's called the x-window system (all lower case, hyphenated and singular). Makes no difference to me but I've seen various unix experts get quite picky about this. Is "x-window" trademarked?

      3. Tom 38 Silver badge
        Stop

        Within the context of computing

        I'd heard of Windows (as in WIMP - Windows, Icon, Menu, Pointer) waaay before I'd heard of Microsoft Windows.

        I'd never heard of an "app store" before Apple made one. I still don't think they should get a trademark on it though.

      4. Tom 13

        Yes, and the clerks and judges who foist this injustice upon us

        should be thrown into the belly of a Tatooine desert beast.

  6. Alien Doctor 1.1

    Seriously...

    WTF is wrong on this planet?

    If only people could just learn to live together.

    What a waste of space and oxygen lawyers are and, for that matter, the companies that employ them.

    Twats of such a high order that I doubt even the scientologists could better them.

    1. MinionZero

      Sadly the business world is infested by these kinds of people

      @"WTF is wrong on this planet? If only people could just learn to live together."

      This Microsoft vs Apple battle is very much like two rival gangs fighting for the right to exploit a means of control over everyone else. The sad fact is, (as the news so often shows) some people seek to bully others (for their own gain). Centuries ago they would have sent in raiding parties to burn your house down and kill you. Now they can't bludgeon & kill you to get you out of their way, so they instead send in their legal attack dogs (the lawyers) to bully you into doing what they want (which is don't compete with them in any way what so ever and if you dare to compete, you get bullied out of their self-interested way and the one's with the most money and most power so often win, its why the little guy doesn't stand a chance). Microsoft vs Apple are big enough to stand up to each other so we get this court room fight. If they were up against a little guy, either of these rival gangs would just the push the little guy to one side without any trouble. It sadly comes down to rival gangs of bullies.

      Thankfully not everyone behaves this way towards others. Most people have empathy towards other humans, but sadly there is enough of these self-interested bastards to make all our lives much more difficult (especially when looked at over our whole life time, because every few years we will suffer them causing us harm and seeking to hold us back for their gain) all simply because ultimately these self-interested bastards seek to push everyone else aside and back, just so they can greedily get ahead of us all in their usual self-interested ways. (Plus don't forget, the worst of them so often want to laugh at all us little people, who are not as powerful, rich and high profile as them. It just shows what bastards they are).

      Which is why they fight so much over IP laws. Who owns something like a trademark then means who gets to control others who then have to seek their permission to use what they own. They as always ultimately seek control and IP law is a major present day way to control others. Trademarks & patent law are riddled with this kind of behaviour (as patent trolls so often sadly show).

      IP laws are often pitched as a way to help the little guy, but the reality is it almost always plays into the hands of the big corporate gangs. One little guy with one patent or a trademark doesn't stand a chance against the powerful gangs of lawyers the corporations have. All IP law is about control and these self-interested bastards seek control of others, so its no surprise at all that they seek control via IP law. Its why all IP law is ultimately a detriment to society. They tell us its to help the little guy & for funding etc.. etc... but its not, that’s just another lie to cover up how they gain from using the law to control others for their benefit. Sadly this is holding back progress (and it gets worse the faster progress becomes). IP law is used as a means to stop people & to fine people and so ultimately to control people and sadly some people want control.

      So back to @"WTF is wrong on this planet? If only people could just learn to live together." ... sadly Narcissistic self-interested people will never be fair, as they don't want fair, they are almost by definition self-interested (at the expense of everyone else, often literally). But there is hope. The more people who learn how the Narcissists behave, the more people that means who will not be their next victim and will then seek ways to stop the Narcissists and work around them, setting up their own open competing systems that undermine the control freaks. Open source is a good example of work around them, as open collaborations bypass the control freak corporations need for closed control.

      Therefore we all need to fight for openness, even like in this case, open application stores not controlled by the corporations (who seek in this case, to corral people around a now well recognised name). Its all ultimately about control & their need for control and open collaborations is the solution to them. The irony is, whilst Microsoft & Apple waste time and money fighting, their biggest real threat is actually Google who are pushing the Linux based Android onto ever more devices. Linux is their biggest threat and that's open. :)

      1. Battsman
        Grenade

        7 Paragraphs

        7 paragraphs - I was just too lazy to read it.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Headmaster

    A fast one...

    This probably didn't come as a suprice to apple except that they probably didn't expect to be cought by it. A big deal in legal cases is to follow the rules, and when you don't, don't expect to be given leevay.

  8. The Cube

    Settle it quickly Apple

    Just trademark "Crapp Store"

  9. Alastair 7

    Actually makes sense... sort of

    When politicians are debating, they're given a time limit. That way, they don't drivel on forever while they desperately try to cover every base. I imagine this is much the same- you've got a set limit of 30 pages to make your case. If it takes longer than that, then your case probably isn't a great one.

  10. NoneSuch Silver badge
    Alert

    There's litigation for that...

    The lawyers get richer.

    They buy expensive sports cars with their bonus checks.

    The economy bounds skywards.

    Yay \o/

    That's the way stimulus packages SHOULD work. :P

  11. frank ly

    We all play a part in definitions - It seems

    ""APP STORE" – is used to describe Apple's online store in 88 per cent of the references found in The Corpus of Contemporary American English (COCA), "an online collection of over 410 million words of popular texts."

    Isn't that because Apple is the first to get a big presence with an online STORE for APPS?

    COCA; hoovering up blogs and tech articles and commentard musings for your benefit and education.

    1. Vincent Ballard

      COCA

      I just had a look through COCA, and most of the references specifically say "Apple's app store" or "the iTunes app store" - which seems to me to imply that it's sufficiently generic to need qualification. Possible own goal there.

    2. Michael Chester
      Stop

      88% are the apple store

      Which means 1 in 8 references are generic, or about a different store, which to my mind should be enough to prevent them getting a blanket trademark.

    3. John Bailey

      Nope.

      Oh well.. If a blog scraper says it's true.. then it must be..

      iTwit.

  12. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Welcome

    "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."

    He forgot about the bankers and the bureaucrats at the Ministry of Economy.

    But apart from that, why not a Solomonic Judgement?

    Though shalt have:

    - The "APPLE APP STORE"

    - The "MICROSOFT APP STORE"

    This should avoid tears in the fabric of spacetime by the antipolar Jobsian and Ballmerian ego-inflation fields.

    1. mike_anderson25
      Alien

      Don't be silly.

      You see what you're doing there is applying logic. Hahahahahaha what were you thinking??

      Alien, because that's exactly what the concept of logic is to these numpties, alien.

    2. Beritknight
      Jobs Horns

      Ummmm...

      That's exactly what Microsoft are asking for!

      This isn't a case of Microsoft and Apple both claiming to own the name "App Store". This case is Apple trying to claim they own it and Microsoft claiming it's a generic term for a store that sells applications.

      If Apple win they get a trademark and the right to sue anyone else who calls their application store an "App Store". If Microsoft win, anyone can use the term App Store to describe their application store. Apple will be able to keep using the term Apple App Store if they loose, they just won't be able to sue Microsoft for using the term Microsoft App Store.

      So there you go, Microsoft are arguing for exactly the same thing you are. Scary, isn't it? =)

      1. John Bailey

        True..

        It seems to be happening more often these days.. Most disconcerting.

        Apple.. true to form. Grandstanding and self entitled, with the fanboy hoards arguing all kinds of nonsense in support.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Fixed Sys

    I once had a requirement expressed in the number of pages and font size, but the font was not specified so I submitted in in Fixed Sys

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Make them suffer!

      Should have used Comic Sans.

      Or Wide Latin.

      That'd learn 'em.

      1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

        Nope

        Should have used Wingdings.

        1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson

          Frankenstein or Euler Fractur

          are also nice

      2. Nick Ryan Silver badge

        No...

        Don't start the Comic Sans argument... El Reg's forums will collapse under the weight!!!

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    Ah well ...

    At least it will keep the scribes busy.

  15. Real Name

    Too Small?

    One of my many annoyances is most fonts used by both companies are far too huge.

    *zooms out*

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The US trademark and patent system need burning!

    It's a joke, not becoming a joke, that was many years ago, now it's just so stupid it's funny (or would be if they didn't then chase people with the power of the law).

    App is a common abbreviation for application, just as "Cell" is a common abbreviation for "Cellular", and "Auto" a common abbreviation for "Automobile".

    Is "Cell Phone" trademarked? Is "Auto Shop"?

    Actually knowing the US they might be, but they shouldn't be! They're just descriptions of things! They can have iphone, imac, itunes because they are entirely new (contrived) words, but trademarking a totally ununique two word phrase is insanity!

    They all need a good slap-down and fine from a judge with a grip to get them to grow up.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      App

      "App is a common abbreviation for application"

      I'd always sort of half assumed it was a clever play on the word Apple, as in 'Apple Store'. After seeing this I realise I was just being daft.

  17. Eponymous Bastard

    Neologism

    I hope the ignorant dweeb who came up with the hideous neologism that is "genericness" dies under a mountain of obsolete iPads because he has the intellect of a piece of discarded gum.

    1. The Indomitable Gall

      Genericness is good.

      There's nothing wrong with "genericness". It is a manageable word following the rules of English.

      The so-called correct alternative is the latinate "genericity", which is a hideously clumsy word in English.

      "Genericness" is a Good Word(TM).

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    A fair point

    Actually, I like the idea of legalese being limited to 25 pages, or some arbitary value. It gives us mortals, still in possession of our souls, the chance to follow legal proceedings.

    Now if we can just get rid of the full legalese - a bastardisation of the english language that Satan himself would be proud of - that would be great. Maybe then lawyers would be more accountable, trustworthy and transparent. But that'll require a change in the law, requiring the assistance of lawyers...

    1. BristolBachelor Gold badge

      EULAs too please

      There should be a rule that all Ts & Cs fit on a single page, with 12point text, double line spacing and wide margins.

      Oh, and on a PC / the web if it doesn't fit in the window without scrolling forever then anything past the first window-full doesn't count :)

      1. TeeCee Gold badge
        Coat

        Re: EULAs too please

        ".....anything past the first window-full doesn't count....."

        I see. Exactly what screen size / resolution are we talking here? It's just that the 103" Plasma in the shop down the road will perform as a computer display and I see a six-by-four-foot-scrolling-window-shaped loophole in your otherwise well-thought idea.

        1. Martin Silver badge
          Happy

          24x80 - fixed font

          Green screens rule. Any other size just doesn't count as a screenful.

  19. JaitcH
    WTF?

    Why doesn't Jobs simply use iApps and be done with it?

    Since Jobs seems to have a fixation with the self-centred letter 'I' (as in me, me, me) why doesn't he just bend the dictionary again and have an iApp store.

    Then the rest of the world can have their App stores which name appears to originate in some of DEC's user libraries from years ago.

    But there again Jobs is famed for stealing IP, which I guess explains a lot.

  20. ElReg!comments!Pierre

    Limits are limits

    In my (desperately under-financed) field, grants that could lead to major benefits for patients are routinely rebutted for that exact same reason. I don't see why Apple, who don't serve any interest but their shareholders', should get a free pass.

    On a separate note, MS vs Apple, bring the heat-expanded maize seeds!

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Joke

    Poetic justice.

    Change your store's name. Not that big of a deal.

    TRADEMARK TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD

    Sent from my iPhone

  22. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    Great minds

    So whats the difference between two huge multinational technology corporations employing 1000s of talented researchers and a pair of squabbling 4year olds?

    ... seriously - whats the difference?

    1. Fisher39

      Several $100million dollars

      Whether you like or not trademarks and marketing are pretty important in the grand scheme of things. The wrapper, the presentation and ownership of the brand are key - even to us techies.

      You just need to look at the superior technolofgies that are in the trash can because they were poorly marketed - and the cobblers that can be sold because it was done well.

      1. Stumpy
        Joke

        el tit

        ... Microsoft Windows for starters...

        1. KroSha
          Thumb Up

          Re: el tit

          Funny cos it's true!

  23. Miek

    Imagination

    What a waste of time on behalf of Microsoft, why did they not simply think of something clever to call their app store, like calling your business Amazon instead of "ONLINE-BOOK SHOP" or whatever. Let Apple have their APP STORE and let's all move on.

  24. Raymond Wilson
    Alert

    Windows and all things transparent are registered trade marks of Microsoft Corp!

    When you think at how much MS rant and rave to claim their [God given?] trademark on the Windows brand, this just shows that the issue is probably a lot deeper than the App Store moniker itself.

    This court case could be the foundation of a Cohen Bros. comedy!

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It's not enough to specify the page count and font size

    They should specify the character set and the maximum number of characters in a legal filing. Then we'd know exactly how many possible legal filings there are. It'll be a big number, for sure, but finite, so one day they'll all have been filed and they'll be no need to file any more.

  26. David Lester
    Headmaster

    For the First Time ever ... I support Microsoft!

    Not content with "genericness", we also have "fact-intensive assessment" inflicted upon us.

    All I can suppose is that it makes a pleasant change to the usual lawyerly[*] amble through the sunlit uplands of "fact free" legal discourse.

    [*] What do you mean: of course any noun can be f**kingly adverbed. It's part of my first amendment rights.

  27. Tigra 07
    Thumb Down

    No title required...in the style of the elephant man

    Brilliant comeback Microsoft.

    Reading that small text and then the larger text really screws your eyes up for a few seconds if u wear glasses.

  28. RPF

    Aha!

    What about the size of the pages - is that defined? Apple could just use the required font and use bigger pages :-)

    Hat,coat,etc.

    p.s.

    What's the difference between a lawyer and a parasite?

    Parasites leave you alone once you die.....

  29. Quotes
    Coffee/keyboard

    Typeface and Kerning

    11pt Univers Ultra-Condensed with heavy-handed negative kerning and reduced inter-word spacing should do the trick. Maybe a sub-editor could go through it to remove superfluous words, use alternative shorter words and make liberal use of abbreviations.

  30. Merlin

    I agree with Microsoft? My world is crumbling.

    For once MS have got it right. The point of the rules is to stop lawyers from boosting their own profits by churning out enormous documents which take years to process. That would mean that court cases would last even longer and lawyers would charge even more millions of dollars. It would also usually mean that the side which could afford most lawyers would win.

    And don't forget where all these millions of dollars come from - your pocket. Every time a consumer buys a new PC with pre-installed Windows or a MAC or a smartphone running Windows or an iPhone, some of the money they shell out goes to those lawyers.

  31. Flossie
    Boffin

    Word count?

    Why not simply specify a maximum word count? Easy to check with an electronic document and likely to cause less problems than having to define fonts, margins etc.

  32. liquidphantom
    Paris Hilton

    Templates

    Is there a template in Microsoft Office that the Apple legal eagles could have used?

  33. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    whining? from the people that brought you...

    Comic Sans

    really?

  34. taxman
    Pint

    And while they're at it

    Why not have a pop at the BBC for iPlayer? Eh? Come on. Let's have it. Or is the BBc a secret subsidery of Apple and is beaming out subversive messages for the gulliable?

    Time for another I think. Nearly Friday.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Jobs Horns

      yes it is

      Or wants to be. Practically every computer you see on the BBC is an Apple, their 'journalists' can't write about them often enough and they never ever criticise them.

  35. James Pickett

    Font

    The application is for "APP STORE"

    So it's OK to use in lower case, then?

    Couldn't Apple have used a condensed font? Arial Narrow saves bit of space on PC's...

  36. Mark .

    Seems fine to me; and Lindows *won* against MS

    If the rules really do say so, then that's fair game. There's nothing worse than someone who tries to win an argument through simply pounding you with vast amounts of text... And trying to make the text smaller to fit more into a limit is a childish way round it.

    And it seems a poor tactic for Apple (TM) to make a comparison to "Windows" - in the case against Lindows, Microsoft lost the initial injuction against them on the grounds that Windows was a generic term in computing. If it ever was brought to court, there's a good chance that MS would lose.

    Same for the people in these comments bringing up Windows and Word - this is the equivalent to "But Officer, those other people were speeding too". Two wrongs don't make a right.

    Now seriously, if Apple (TM) decided to respond to this by challenging MS's trademark of Windows, that would be fair game. But saying that Apple (TM) should be allowed to own generic phrases, because Microsoft do, is poor logic, and just results in more corporate ownership of common phrases.

    If it's not an "app store" (TM), then what word do I use?

    Goat Jam: Completely false - they chose to change their name, because MS paid them. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_v._Lindows :

    "The judge denied Microsoft's request for a preliminary injunction and raised "serious questions" about Microsoft's trademark. Microsoft feared that a court may define "Windows" as generic and result in the loss of its status as a trademark."

    And saying they should own app store because most references apply to Apple (TM) would be ridiculous. It would mean Microsoft get to trademark "operating system", Google get to trademark "search engine" and so on.

  37. ShaggyDoggy

    Timewasters

    Why don't these companies stop wasting people's time with all this legal shite and get back to producing good software.

    Oh wait

  38. Matthew S
    FAIL

    To be fair, it's about fair.

    If it's true, MS may have a point. They don't set these rules, but they've abided by them whereas Apple seems to be twisting them to get more material for arguments into play. In effect they've brought an extra weapon onto the field through manipulation, and that's procedurally not exactly fair to MS, hense the dispute. It does go both ways though, it must be equally fair to both parties.

    It's also a pain for the judges. They have to read smaller font, which given the volume of reading they go through, reading smaller font for extended periods of time is a PITA, causes eyestrain, headaches, etc. Considering that they'll certainly read the briefs, probably refresh their memory on the cited case law (which can be lengthy), their clerks may have a couple academic articles on the topic, etc. It adds up. Appellate court judges can not infrequently have to read over 1000 pages per day to stay on top of their caseloads (at least where I'm from). Someone yanking them around with this kind of stuff isn't exactly appreciated, and the limits are there to prevent abuse.

    If it's a mistake on the part of Apple's lawyers, it's a dumb one. They're sending docs into court, and they're paid (a lot of money) to be good at putting the best argument forward. This kind of mistake is on par with a typo, and it undermines the credibility of the argument because it looks like they didn't do their reviews. Maybe they didn't do their research as diligently as they should have etc. They *should* know better.

    IANAL.

  39. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I get the gist of what they're saying

    Apple: "Blah blah MS talking crap blah blah"

    Microsoft: "tl;dr"

    Thanks for that chaps.

  40. Anonymous Coward
    Joke

    From a reader

    Can "genericness" be added to the Corpus of Unalloyed Neologistic Twaddle too?

  41. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Where is this going to end?

    Microsoft: "Your trademark is generic."

    Apple: "No, it's not."

    Microsoft: "Your font is too small."

    Apple: "Yeah, well, yo momma's so fat when she goes sunbathing on the beach Greenpeace try to roll her back into the sea!"

  42. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    There is history of this sort of thing

    Hole in the wall in the UK (Barclay's bank I believe)

    Ford F150 SUV vs Ferrari F150 Formula 1 car

    Stelios suing anyone who uses the word "easy" in a company name

    And my favourites being the amusing list of words you can't use in London in 2012. such as London, 2012, Olympics and so on.

  43. Zippy the Pinhead

    font to small

    Maybe you're holding it wrong.

This topic is closed for new posts.

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2021