Oh dear!
Farewell EDL.
English Defence League site pulled offline after defacement
The website of the far right English Defence League remained unavailable on Friday following a hack attack on Wednesday. The defacement (captured here by Zone-h) criticises the EDL for campaigning to kick British-born Muslims out of the country. The hacker TriCk aka Saywhat?, a member of the hacking group TeaMp0isoN, sprayed a …
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Friday 11th February 2011 16:23 GMT Anonymous Coward
Define : Far Right
In the sense that it fits the definition?
From Wikipedia:
Far right politics often support segregation; the separation of groups deemed to be superior from groups deemed to be inferior.
Unless of course you mean that the term "Far right" only really applies to a political movement/party as opposed to a bunch of racist cocks who want anyone with a slightly different skin tone out of "their" country.
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Friday 11th February 2011 16:42 GMT Some Beggar
In the sense that the majority of people mean when the use the term "far right".
This is generally how language works.
I'm sure you could conjure up a different definition of "far right" or instigate some tedious semantic argument about historic use of 'right' and 'left' ... but since your name does not appear to be Oxford E. Dictionary, I suspect most people will just ignore you.
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Friday 11th February 2011 17:14 GMT Cameron Colley
I think it's time we dropped the left/right nonsense.
Was Stalin Left or Right wing? What about Hitler.
It could be argued that both were left wing. Stalin saw to it that "millions of members of ethnic minorities were also deported." and Hitler wanted "... economic security, social welfare programs for workers, a just wage, honour for workers' importance to the nation, and protection from capitalist exploitation.".
I've come to the conclusion that both "Left" and "Right" are just labels used to criticise without actual criticism. Call someone "Far Right" and people think Hitler and call them "Far Left" and they think you're calling them a "Commie" or a "Liberal" depending on the company you're in.
Added to that the slight changes in nuance depending on which wide of the Atlantic you're on and the terms loose all meaning.
These people are "Nationalist" or, if you want to be sensationalist they're "Racist" -- it seems that the religion thing is just an excuse to cause some bother though so, perhaps, they're just ignorant thugs?
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Friday 11th February 2011 19:09 GMT Uncle Slacky
Sounds like a job for...
...the Political Compass! http://www.politicalcompass.org/
It assigns a vertical axis (Authoritarian/Libertarian) perpendicular to the traditional Left/Right axis. Thus, the BNP (and probably EDL) could be thought of as left wing economically but authoritarian socially, for example.
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Saturday 12th February 2011 00:35 GMT Anonymous Coward
If you're referring to me, I resent that
I'm no apologist for those people. I'd go a long way to avoid an EDL demo.
The left/right labels are near meaningless, but the casual use of the label "far right" has every potential to smear the moderate right - to a much greater extent than the label "far left" smears the moderate left.
Knee-jerk reactions and trite labels have the danger of over-simplifying the argument. That is my sole point. It's convenient to pigeon-hole people, but doing so carelessly carries the danger that you fail to understand what's really going on, and get overwhelmed by events.
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Friday 11th February 2011 16:38 GMT Defiant
Yes
Posted Friday 11th February 2011 16:06 GMT
"Andrew, have you ever been to one of their demonstrations?"
I have, seen the Lib-Lab-Con backed UAF attacking the police while the police were boxing in the peaceful EDL.
Say why are the UAF thugs so scared of people protesting against Islamic Extremism & why do we NEVER see the UAF protesting against the Muslim Extremists on our streets that call for our deaths ?
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Friday 11th February 2011 16:41 GMT Anonymous Coward
A very polite hacker
That was one of the most polite website hacks I've seen. Everyone may not agree with his little rant but it was fairly well presented and neither rude or abusive.
Hopefully he won't leak all that data he claims to have pinched because that would just cause more trouble and up the ante, not to mention increase his prison sentence if caught.
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Friday 11th February 2011 23:33 GMT Anonymous Coward
The EDL finest!
WARNING! This may make you throw up.
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/1124/One-of-England%27s-finest
Shall I say more?
For those who have no idea on what the English Defence League is, I would recommend you to read the following article:
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/English-Defence-League
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Friday 11th February 2011 17:10 GMT Ubuntu Is a Better Slide Rule
Security Business To Take Off
A German party (which I would classify neo-Nazi, yet different from this party) has also been hacked:
http://forum.spiegel.de/showthread.php?postid=7139069
IT professionals must now re-think the way we develop,operate and maintain information systems. What was paranioa in the past must be part of any solid IT concept in the future. That security does not come for free is not a valid argument - the IT business as a whole will suffer in case a the perception "computers in general are insecure" will become widespread.
Here is a list of technologies for our toolbox:
+ AppArmor
+ Safe Programming Languages such as Cyclone or Modula-3
+ Virtual Machines as a security concept
+ Sandboxie
+ Cryptologic Support to encrypt and verify integrity
+ Mathematical Proofs of Correctness for systems like AppArmor or SE Linux
+ Secure Operating Systems such as the L4 microkernel, which has been proven to be correct.
I have a reputation for blasting the wrongdoings of Americans here, but I have to admit AppArmor and SE Linux are at least partially American technology. Please keep doing the good work !
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Friday 11th February 2011 19:29 GMT Juillen 1
Amazing...
A few points:
The hack text is well done. Hats off to the chap for being to the point, and pretty decent about making his point.
To all the "have you seen pics of the demonstrations" brigade. Have you seen pics of a goodly many demonstrations? Student demonstrations? The old Miners demonstrations that the left are so proud of? Many demonstrations go awry, and many more go peacefully.
The "<insert name of disliked organisation> are a bunch of knuckle draggers." can very much be attributed to any group. Resorting to that is really nothing more than name calling, which is the worst form of politicking, and not constructive in the least.
All the "racist" calls. Some are, some probably aren't. Ever seen Avenue Q? Lovely song in there that's called "Everyone's a little bit racist". Listen to it. It pretty much has a very good recipe for people just getting along, and the first step in that is to say "We're all a bit flawed, but if we stopped vilifying each other for perceived wrongs, and tried to concentrate on getting on and making the best, things would probably work better". Saying someone is <something>ist is most likely true at some level. Everyone is. It doesn't help solve anything.
Pointing out that the EDL are extremists is pointless. Yes, they probably are. Why? Because they seem scared witless of the Muslim extremists (you know, the ones who bomb places). Pointing out they're extremists is also pointless. Why are they extremists? Because the West has interfered for so long with the makeup of their home regions, and with such overwhelming force behind them that they feel there is no other choice. The west has done this for resources, and political deals that worked for some segment of the population in that area, and not for a goodly many others, but led to the advancement of the world by doing so. Though the ends don't necessarily justify the means. Follow the chain of causes, and try and work out why things happen, what options there are. It's a really complex mix of things that just brushing off groups as irrelevant because you don't think you agree with a message of theirs is just burying your head.
When someone offers an eyewitness account, try and find the evidence for or against it (Defiant, do you have evidence behind your assertion, i.e. news reports from a neutral source?). If you can disprove it, do so. We'll all have learned something then, instead of just listening to someone else shouting "Nyah Nyah" louder, which is just childish.
I personally hope that the membership list isn't posted for the same reasons I was pretty unhappy about the BNP lists being published, and the lists that Red Watch produced and published. Everyone has a right to an idea under the base tenets of the Human Rights convention. Sure, you may not agree with them, but hey.. What goes on in their head is up to them. Now, if they decide to act on it (gay/black/white/<insert demographic here> beating is violating a horde of laws, and gets punished under them), that's another matter. Being part of a political organisation doesn't necessarily mean you subscribe to all their excesses, just that you may share some of their views. I've seen this on left and right groups. All extremes have their moderating voices. "Outing" people simply incites aggression against unknown people, all on assumptions. If you can prove someone's done wrong, by all means, name and shame them.. But "outing" memberships of groups? That's just plain unethical (for me, that equates to "wrong"). Publishing the list would be a "wrong" action, which to me would only detract from the message that was put on the defaced site (which on the reading of it, I have to admit, it looked like he made a fair, and reasonable point!).
I sometimes find the amount of preconceptions and closed mindedness on forums to be staggering. Yes, I'm sometimes guilty of it myself (after all, I'm only human).
I'm not overly fond of the EDL, the UAF, the BNP or any of the more extreme groups. I like my cosy middle ground, but I don't forget that my ability to be comfy in my middle ground is occasionally won by the blood of extremists (on many sides). What I try to work out is what makes the extremists that way.. What the grounding is for their perceived cause, and where it leads back to.. That way I may actually learn something..
Anyway, rant over. I'm getting my coat. All the name calling that got tagged onto a pretty interesting and funny story really did irritate me.
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Saturday 12th February 2011 00:14 GMT Ian McNee
Truly impressive how you balance on that fence...
...but that is the privilege of the largely white educated middle-classes. I suppose at least you have the decency to own up to your position. Being white myself it's easier for me to avoid the unpleasant attention of the likes of the EDL, BNP and their fellow travellers but I have Muslim (and others of South Asian origin - the racist knuckle-draggers make little distinction) friends, neighbours and work colleagues who do not have that luxury.
Typical of nice middle-of-the-road liberals your logic is based on several flawed assumptions:
(i) that we can have a reasonable, informed and productive debate with the likes of the EDL and the BNP - they are not interested and away from their "just within the letter of the law" public face their activists and followers frequently resort to violence, intimidation and thuggery;
(ii) that there is somehow an equation between "Muslim" and "extremist" - if you even know any Muslim people personally I challenge you to find one that even approaches extremism - what the EDL mean by "Muslim extremist" is someone who has the temerity to stand up for some the rights and privileges that you and I take for granted as British citizens;
(iii) that it is perfectly OK for the racists and fascists to go about their business with anonymity - NO WAY: if there is one productive thing about this hack (beyond a bit of propaganda and a good chuckle at the expense of the knuckle-draggers) it is that these people are named and shamed - do you never ask yourself why they are so coy about their political affiliations being associated with their real identities?
(iv) that this kind of discussion on comment boards actually matters one jot - much as I love El Reg what you and I are engaging in is just froth - wake up and smell the coffee! :-)
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Monday 14th February 2011 00:20 GMT Anonymous Coward
@ Mcnee
@ Ian McNee, your quote "make little distinction) friends, neighbours and work colleagues who do not have that luxury."
Yup, correct. Being merelyy different in skin colour or the language you happen to speak will do. Anybody else remember the occasion they trashed a Hindu temple in Dudley last year, when they were supposed to be "peacefully" protesting a mosque.
Oh and Defiant, that bollocks about Hitler being Socialist, Nazism was called National Socialism to be sure but just the same as Fascism waas actually driven by the middle classes, and by industrialists who benifited massively, whilst the working classes became cannon fodder for the machinery of state. Just because somebody calls themselves the King of the Penguins doesn't make it true.
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Saturday 12th February 2011 00:13 GMT Anonymous Coward
Who let all the lefties out? Is it liberal lettuce time already?
I'd put good money on the self righteous types on here bleating on about the nasty EDL not having the balls to say the same thing about islamic fundemantalist groups. I'm no fan of the EDL but there are islamic groups in this country that are just as bad. Typically however the left (usually naive sanctamonious students and right on muesli munchers of which there seem to be plenty above) and the ANL are just a bunch of snivelling feminised cowards who are quite happy to protest when they know there's no retribution coming their way, but any chance of some real trouble or bricks through their islington georgian windows and they're off like a bunch of scared bunny rabbits. Its all a bit tragic.
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Sunday 13th February 2011 22:57 GMT Some Beggar
Internet hardman is hard!
Yadda yadda. We all know that there are islamic pricks the same as there are english nationalist pricks and every other colour of pricks. This particuar article is about the EDL pricks and there is an EDL prick here in the comments being a prick. If he were a different sort of prick then we'd all be pointing and laughing at his prickness just the same. Get off your high horse and drop the infantile "islington muesli" schtick. If you'd read the other posts of most of the people who are teasing the EDL prick then it would be perfectly clear how massively wide of the mark you are.
Now ... how do I pick up this "good money" that you just lost? Paypal OK for you?
Or should I just come around to your house and beat my fists against your manly manly chest?
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Monday 14th February 2011 09:42 GMT Anonymous Coward
Don't worry boltar,
the rash of leftards you see on here are a non-survival mutation. It's simple Darwin: if the zebras welcome the lions into their midst with "non-racist" compassion and tolerance for lions the zebras will be eaten. So the X-Gen "Muurr you're racist" PC nannies will be gone within a generation.
I'm also interested to see that you've observed the connection between feminism and the other forms of political correctness. Not many people do; most respond with automatic mockery and ridicule when you point it out to them, because it's easier to just swallow the propaganda than to actually spend brain time analysing and understanding the relationships between the various PC "anti-whatever-ist" movements, and their ultimate agendas of control and hegemony.
Just make sure you get out of England, like I did, before it becomes the next version of Iran. Leave the zebras to get the compassion and tolerance they deserve. I'm sure the future Islamic Republic of Britain will be very compassionate and tolerant of their kind. You know, the way pretty much every other Islamic-majority country is.
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Tuesday 15th February 2011 01:56 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Darwin
Which have been more successful in evolutionary terms, human tribes that seek civilisation, commonality, peace, and a sense of unity, or those tribes that fear others, and seek to run from or destroy others?
We are a gregarious species. We like being together, and we are stronger together. We are biologically left wing. It is the me-ists who are an evolutionary dead end.
Have them apples.
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Sunday 13th February 2011 16:10 GMT Gilbert Wham
"The Socialists of the 1930s would be proud of you"
What, the people who kicked the shit out of the fascists at Cable St.? The people who had the courage to stand up to Franco, and went through hell for it? The strikers Churchill ordered troops to fire on? I doubt I, or any of the others here who (quite rightly) think you and your ilk are dicks, could hold a candle to them. Fuck, if I managed to do things that would gain their accolades, I'd be proud of myself. Crawl back under your rock, eh? There's a good chap.
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Sunday 13th February 2011 22:56 GMT Anonymous Coward
EDL
Couple of points:
1. Defiant - do you really define dictator's political leanings based on what they might name their party rather than by the fact they, oh, executed 6 million people for their ethnicity? Presumably in your mixed up little world Kim Jong Il is a democrat, what with him being the leader of the People's 'Democratic' Republic of Korea (look it up)?
2. I've always been rather confused that the EDL seem to promote roughly the same policies as the BNP. Surely an 'English' nationalist party should believe in English nationhood and seek to leave the UK, in the same way Welsh and Scottish nationalists do? But if you read their mission statement, it's the same old nonsense but using the English flag instead of the British one in the hope this appeals more to the football crowd.
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Sunday 13th February 2011 22:57 GMT Danny 2
English needs defending
"feel our wraith"
A wraith is non-corporeal portent of doom, like the spectre of past religious genocides that haunt Europe, but I assume you meant to type 'wrath' and probably don't see the irony in the awful English of the English Defence League.
"when the blow up a BUS I will have somthign against the EDL"
ygUDuh
ydoan
yunnuhstan
ydoan o
yunnuhstand dem
yguduh ged
yunnuhstan dem doidee
yguduh ged riduh
ydoan o nudn
LISN bud LISN
dem
gud
am
lidl yelluh bas
tuds weer goin
duhSIVILEYEzum
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Monday 14th February 2011 00:20 GMT Anonymous Coward
I'll bite
Not only will I condemn extremist groups of *every* persuasion; Left, Right, Muslim, Christian but I'll happily state they need each other. Radical muslim bunnies can only court the more moderate guys by persuading them the west hate them; the EDL provide an easy example.
The EDL want us to believe the muslims want to destroy our way of life, a handful of attention seeking halfwits give the thugs all the excuse they need.
The morality is suspect, the logic would be funny - if it wasn't used to such evil aims
This topic is closed for new posts.
Biting the hand that feeds IT
