Mexico demands apology for Top Gear outrage Mexico's ambassador to Britain has fired off a letter to the BBC demanding an apology for the antics of its Top Gear presenters, Reuters reports. In a studio discussion of the comparative merits of sports cars from Germany, Italy and Mexico, Richard Hammond suggested they reflect the national characteristics of their makers. …
Actual Mexican food is quite dissimilar from 'Tex-Mex', a meat'n'carbtastic US product which is what most people seem to think of as Mexican. Sick and cheese is not an unreasonable description of that, I guess. Funny thing about food in relatively poor countries; it isn't wall-to-wall ground beef, because most citizens just can't afford it.
But my father worked in Mexico quite a bit and always told me that out of all the places he had been in the world (quite a few as he was an engineer who was sent to install hardware at sites in a different country every week for more than 30 years), their food was the worst he had ever encountered. This was in 'real' Mexico too, not the tourist towns. Apaprently a cheap hotel he was staying in served chilli soup at breakfast, which he described as just stupidly hot chilli sauce mixed with warm water.
I found the market stall fare to be pretty tasty in the Yucatan. Still enchiladas and refried beans on the whole mind, but without cheese and with fish on the menu too. Don't know if it might be because of that region's traditional closer links to the motherland or not. Hop on a bus and go a bit further south though and you're into Belize which is worlds apart. Lobster curry, yum!
Sure, if your dad stayed at a cheap hotel in a small town, I would also expect crappy cuisine. The poor man's version of Mexican food is pretty crappy by Mexican standards, especially the "soup" which is basically water with a couple of peas.
The best food you'll find will be in either Central Mexico or the Southeast (Yucatán Peninsula); Northern Mexico's food will be good, but it probably will look more US-ish. Oh, and BTW, nothern states don't eat much tacos, and are the ones that actually make burritos.
In Italy good and bad food does not depend on the prices on the menu, this means that even in the cheapest restaurants you can find culinary jewels. This goes even more so on small "poor" towns, and yes there are poor town in Italy.
In England of course, food is kind of gray everywhere no matter the conditions, not bad, not good just meh.
ici.chacal is a ignorant lazy waste of space who probably won't complain about this message because the word "ignorant" has so many letters he won't be able to read past it. And his cooking tastes like dining out off the refuse of a paper factory.
Now, if this makes it through the mods and you get to read this, do you feel it is acceptable under the label "banter"...? Particularly given that I don't know you -- is it ever really possible to give a gentle ribbing to someone you've never met?
I see the point you're trying to make, but there is one small difference. A 'personal' attack is never accepted - where you specifically target an individual or tiny group. A generalised insult to a wider group, because there's no direct attack, is an accepted form of comedy.
Now if a Mexican TV show described the British as "Lazy, yobish chavs who just race Vauxhall Nova's round a Tesco car park, smacked up on crack and Special Brew"... Would you demand an apology? Or would you just chuckle and agree, knowing that they just played on a stereotype in jest?
But what gets accepted and rejected I suspect is based on whatever is the current social taboo which changes over time.
So if it a negative commant about people of the Jewish faith, muslims or gays, then you can expect your comment to be excised.
Insults about the Irish, Scots, Welsh, Brits in general, "yoof", Members of Parliament, rich people and personal attacks on Lindsey Lohan are pretty much fair game.
Apart from Lindsey Lohan (who deserves all the crap she gets), they are all generalisations about a group. It's either right to criticize a group in general terms or not. I don't see the distinction.
They're equal-opportunity instigators with choice words for the skills and habits of the residents of nearly every country in the world. The only countries that they've discussed that they seem to have anything resembling respect for the populations of seem to be Iceland and Finland. They've even insulted Lichtenstein and they probably spent all of an hour there. I mean, who the hell *bothers* to insult Lichtenstein unless there's a particular unilateral agendum to do so?
Even as a politically incorrect viewer, I was rather taken aback by the Mexico outburst. And what's almost as bad, it wasn't remotely funny, and terribly rehearsed. Jezza's humour is often great, especially in his books, but it let him down here.
I have been to Mexico and like it very much indeed. A bit short on British restaurants though. Funny we have plenty of Mexican outlets here.
Really? You were taken aback? By Jezza's humour? The majority was said by Hammond, the food criticisms were by May - Clarkson barely said a word other than repeating the "sleep a lot" bit.
The bandwagon can currently be found outside the Daily Mail's office, maybe you should go there and complain about Speedy Gonzales - something which apparently is quite popular in Mexico. Meanwhile I'll be complaining about the Austin Powers movies.
"The bandwagon can currently be found outside the Daily Mail's office, maybe you should go there and complain about Speedy Gonzales - something which apparently is quite popular in Mexico."
Don't know about Speedy Gonzales, but Speedy Gonzalez isn't "popular" in the way you might think; it has its fair share of criticism for being a corny stereotype of Mexicans as seen by "Gringos" similar to the black aboriginals with a bone in their hair of 40's animation.
"The bandwagon can currently be found outside the Daily Mail's office, maybe you should go there and complain about Speedy Gonzales"
Go to the Daily Mail to complain about racial stereotyping or the Top Gear presenters being bigots? You are joking aren't you? It seems like your opinion is the one that's far more likely to be represented by that rag of a newspaper, they'd happily have Clarkson's bowel movements on a plinth in the editors office if he'd send it to them and casual racism is practically corporate policy.
I love Top Gear. I love the humour and that it can get away with being politically incorrect, but I was very uncomfortable with the Mexico comments.
Jokes about Germany invading Poland or lorry drivers murdering prostitutes benefited from being clearly intended to be humour and from containing a small grain of truth.
Mexico on the other hand came across as abuse rather than humour (my interpretation, perhaps) and as wholly untrue.
Maybe they were just trying too hard to be funny. Perhaps the format is getting stale, after all.
I was also curious as to what the car was actually like - let's face it, there's enough batshit crazy startups out there that manage to build highly entertaining (in one way or another) cars that there's no good reason why this should be any different.
"You'll be saying America has cuisine next."
Well, since French is an official language of Canada, they must have cuisine as well. And since Canada is part of the North American continent...
Furthermore, even if we accept your vulgar abbreviation for the United States of America (proper abbreviation USA), you should know that there are regions of the USA where French is the first language of many if not most of the residents (some parts of Loiusiana, nothern Maine, et al.) So based on the language argument, we do indeed have cuisine here.
Part of me thinks that the lads have once again been numpties in their estimation of how funny those remarks are, but a greater part of me suspects that even complaining about them is to mistake them as mattering. I mean, the only way those comments could be a serious issue would be if someone watching the program took them seriously as a statement of fact about Mexico - and if you have a viewing population treating everything they see on Top Gear as fact, there are bigger issues than the specifics of what Clarkson & co actually say...
Well, I take your point to a certain extent, but then you pop along to http://www.nationaltvawards.com/past-winners and see that recent award-winning "Factual shows" have included Loose Women, GMTV, Big Brother and Wife Swap. At which point I conclude that someone organising the awards has confused "factual" with "non-scripted".
What is the matter with us? It sometimes seems we are a nation of insecure, ignorant twunts. We slight other nationalities at the drop of a hat. It's always quite awkward and embarrassing when some guy starts ranting about "cheese eating surrender monkeys" (yeah like Napolean) or fat Germans (look who's talking about being fat).
As far as "it's only entertainment and humour" goes, is the BNP writing their scripts? Can they not afford to hire funny people?
It's all intended comedy... And "political correctness" is ruining so many things...
Clarkson and co insult each other far more than they insult other countries, and it's quite obvious to anyone watching that it's all intended as a joke.
It's people who take offence at what is clearly a joke who are are insecure and ignorant.
James May once called Top Gear a sitcom. And so it is. It involves expensive cars and cheap sets. The presenters, while then may know a little about cars, seem to be employed as comedians.
So if Top Gears opinion really does matter to any external country or government then they are giving that opinion far more credence that it really deserves.
Do they take Tom & Jerry's opinion so seriously?
I'm generally happy to be amused by their blathering, on the understanding that I'm supposed to be laughing as much at the hosts being stupid as laughing along with anything they said. But the Mexican thing was a bit much - I remember thinking "er..." at the time. Perhaps if it was a one-liner rather than a full conversation. I trust they'll end up going there and finding they actually like the place after all.
True, anyone taking serious offence is probably having a sense of humour failure, but the same could be said of the lads for spouting it in the first place. There's a difference between a racist joke (for which I hope most, these days, laugh at the stereotype and the people saying it rather than at the actual people of the race in question) and just having a rant. Still, I hope this doesn't blow up more than necessary - TG is amusing, in its place.
It's not like it purports to be factual. I'm beginning to worry about some of the blatant nonsense spouted by QI.
I'm not at all PC, but I have to say I thought that outburst was a bit OTT as well. And I know this is Top Gear we're talking about, but still I would have been interested to hear /something/ about the car.
Anyhow, instead of an asking for an apology, I think the BBC should send the lads to Mexico to shoot a Top Gear special there, I imagine the locals would enjoy the chance to meet them now...
I like Top Gear and I like Clarkson most of the time, but this was unnecessary and a bit uncomfortable to watch as each presenter in turn chipped in.
Substitute Nigeria for Mexico and swap the racial sterotypes and that show never gets aired, the recording's leaked and everybody gets fired. It was Bernard Manning humour at best.
I think the line is drawn where your target can't give as good as they get, so banter with the Aussies, the French and the Germans is ok, but having a sustained go at poorer nations really isn't.
To Ambassador Eduardo Medina-Mora Icaza.
Obviously these guys have run out of creative ideas and are left with nothing else but misdirecting attacks against their competition.
Congratulations. It appears Mexico is on its way up in the sports car manufacturing.
Anticipate the fight and the victory.
> remarks only serve to reinforce negative stereotypes
Perhaps that's worth an apology, perhaps not.
> perpetuate prejudice against Mexico and its people
I seriously doubt that. I found the sketch very entertaining and there was more like a light chuckling on my part, but I don’t for one minute hold prejudice for Mexico or its people as a result of having watched the sketch. I didn’t hold prejudice against Mexico in the first place.
I'm an IT geek. Hell, I'm guessing most people on TheRegister are. I still found IT Crowd funny when it came out, even if I did see parallels with my life.
They were “reinforcing negative sterotypes” and I think I fall into the sterotype quite nicely. But just because I find myself in the group of people at the butt of the joke doesn't mean I feel a need to take offence and demand an apology.
Certainly, after Jeremy’s previous revelation that all truck drivers are murderers, I’m pleased to see that all truck drivers have been locked up.
I think if the Mexican Ambasador feels the comments would "reinforce negative stereotypes" then he acknoledges that there are already negative sterotypes to be reinforced. I would suggest he should ask the newpapers to make additions to his comments to include his defence of the opinions of Mexico. How proud a people they are, their levels of productivity, the positive reviews of the vehicle from reviewers with less "bigoted feelings", demonstrations of the cars quality in such tests as Euro NCap.
An apology is just words that would have no impact on preventing what he acknowledges are existing sterotypes. If he is the ambasador, what was he ALREADY he doing to change the opinions of the likes of the TopGear viewers and why hasn't he shown in what way TopGear was wong in their statements?
(I'm not saying TopGear were right, it just sounds like a harlf hearted response from an ambasador to only ask for an apology and then disappear from view again)
I'm just going to bend over and spread 'em == PC bollocks and the Beeb should just close. They're so scared of their own shadow they might as well be a sandbox in a street of houses full of cats -- anything pees on them and they completely revamp....
TG just discussed in public what the Americans already knew -- they're lazy, catapulting drugs into the USA, no real contributions to anything.
Now -=- good Mexican food is another matter. But some does look like a regurgitated Donner Kebab after a night on the piss in Liverpool
Top gear is immensely popular in the US. So much that they tried to do a US specific version to captialise on its popularity.
Besides, Try painting "Cockneys all are @rseholes" on a 4x4 and go and drive through the east end of london, and see what happens. If you got through that with people only throwing rocks at you, you would be lucky.
Whilst the Mexican ambassador might object to the stereotype, does he have some good counter claims to demonstrate the statements are incorrect!?
Correspondingly, Top Gear specialises in offending people, so one should be proud to have been noticed by this unholy trio. I mean look at their 'stars in a reasonably priced car'. They tend to get derided in person by the carefully honed, openly offensive remarks by Clarkson.
The ambassador should remember, things you laugh at tend to get remembered fondly, even if for all the wrong reasons. I hope the 'boys' keep up the good work. I mean the next thing you know the BBC will be apologising to the Japanese for Stephen Fry's comments...!
You need only consider the effort put into digging smuggling tunnels beneath the Mexico/USA border to know Mexicans are not lazy.
As for the ambassador, why is he spending his time watching Auntie Beeb when Mexico produces so many excellent telenovelas? Instead of simply complaining, he ought to have made a positive contribution by promoting Sabado Gigante.
If Mexicans are anything, it is thin-skinned. And they do make excellent beer!
"I bore myself. Also, I cannot type 'fried' without first typing 'friend'. As you were."
Ah, zo, Tell me Mz Bee, You tink dat all fried food is your friend? Umm?
No, no, lie down get comfortzable. Close you eyes. Wot does you see? A great big pile of hot greasy chips? How about fried eggs and zauzages? De Englisher breakfaust?
Now Mz Byy, put down zat frying pan.
Mz Bee...
I couldn't help but be amused that it took until Tuesday for the reports of a complaint to surface on the BBC news site... I hope that delay was caused by the BBC, because if it took the Ambassador 2 days to complain about something which occurred on Sunday evening it really doesn't help the lazy/sleeping stereotype of his country!
Anyway, I found Top Gear funny. Political incorrectness is such a rare thing these days, it's quite refreshing. We're English, we take the piss out of things, and we expect the piss to be taken right back! After Clarkson's fantastically funny VW advert with the "Berlin to Warsaw on one tank" tag-line I braced for a Polish protest, but do you know what, there wasn't one. There were however a couple of good "reply/reaction" videos made on Youtube by some Poles! Brilliant, they've got the idea!
I've even heard rumours that some Germans may be replied in a humourous style via youtube too!
So with the Germans displaying evidence of basic humour, it's quite lucky that Mexico has seized the moment and stepped forward to accept the humourless baton.
"So with the Germans displaying evidence of basic humour,"
---
They can surprise you:
"There was no secrecy about the positions of the German guns. The British knew where all of them were. On fine days, gunners like Albert Mister, attached to a British 6-inch gun anti-convoy battery at Fan Bay, watched through their field-glasses while the Germans built gun emplacements across the Channel.
From their daily reconnaissance flights, German Intelligence also knew the exact position of all the British batteries. To deceive the German pilots, dummy guns made of lathe and plaster were placed near the new guns. They failed in their purpose. One day a German plane came over and derisively dropped a wooden bomb on them."
.
Brilliant.
I cant help get the feeling that the top gear team were annoyed that QI managed to get the japanese ambassador to complain about the unlucky/lucky man, who survived two nuclear explosions and thought to themselves, there might be a bit of sport to be had in this. Thus the direct poking at the ambassador.
It would appear they have succeeded in their game.
From bbc.co.uk
"On 12 January 2011, the Mexican government unveiled a new database giving a total of 34,612 people killed over the past four years. This total included suspected drug gang members, members of the security forces as those considered innoncent (sic) bystanders. The total was a jump of some 4,000 on the previous total. The new list showed that 2010 was the bloodiest year so far, with 15,273 drug-related murders. Government officials have stressed that the vast majority of those killed are linked to the illegal drugs trade. "
With almost 35,000 people killed in northern Mexico because of drug trafficking you would think they would be putting their efforts into fixing that annoying problem rather than mobilizing Mexican bureaucracy for an apology over comments from a pokey motoring show on BBC2.
Complete fail.
In fact, that is the reasoning for giving this so much attention! If you got the sheeples more worried about these things, they'll ignore the *other* news, like the military murdering families that had the gall of overtaking a military convoy, or killing kids 'coz the patrolling soldiers were too drugged to notice they weren't narcos. Oh, my favorite: murdering students, then claiming they were "sicarios".
Check out "Kalimba", "Salvador Cabañas" and hell, even "Daryl Cagle" to see big non-stories being overblown in Mexican media.
Note: I didn't find Cagle's drawing to be offensive, but Top Gear's comment did seem Over the top.
If yoou don't think there is a line in certain type of humor, try asking "Are you from Malvinas?" to someone from Falklands.
Top Gear is the televisual equivalent of Private Eye. Everybody loves to read what the Eye has to say about others, no matter how nasty or potentially liable, but as soon as they find themself in the pages of that organ they threaten legal action or at the very least cancellation of their subscription.
Hardly an episode goes by that Top Gear doesn't paint a potentially offensive stereotype of somebody. Germans, merkins, Australians, truck drivers, and so on. However the Mexican ambasador hasn't complained about any of those.
Have you actually read Private Eye? Generally it's only offensive about politicians, solicitors, bankers, bureaucrats, newspaper editors and newspaper proprietors. In other word people who thoroughly deserve any offensive remarks. And unlike Top Gear it actually carries factual content.
Once - just once - wouldn't it be great if an ambassador on the receiving end of one of these jibes got his mush in the papers by saying something along the lines of "Yeah we saw it. It wasn't that funny tbh but it was only a few words on a tv prog. We've got better things to worry about than this sort of nonsense".
It would be, but I won't be holding my breath for it. Everyone seems desparate not just to be offended these days, but to want to tell us how offended they are.
Is truly awful. They now have an 'American' version. Not the 'americanised' UK one with the prices in $ - but reusing the old scripts (or situations at least) with 3 merkins. But to avoid annoying the advertisers they can't say anything rude about the cars and to avoid being sued they can't say much about anyone either. Which leaves it dull and boring. I managed to sit through 2 episodes (to make sure that the first wasn't just an aberration) before deciding that enough was enough.
My wife described it as 'watching a warm-up act with 3 failed stand-ins'.
Very very bad. To be avoided.
BBC America on the other hand is at last showing the uncut (and bleeped) UK versions and is raking in many many viewers. I get people at work who aren't car types at all commenting - though mainly along the lines of 'how do they get away with saying that?' :-)
They completely recycle the scripts. They even made British Agincourt jokes against the French, but being American hosts, it made absolutely no sense.
Syffy is doing "Being Human" and it's a wreck. You can barely tell who's the vampire and who's the werewolf. MTV did "Skins" and got "iddn't dat child porn, Martha?"
American TV is just so totally horrid, except for BBC America and Discovery Channel. We need a "facepalm" icon.
There is only one fair and ethical way to do comedy:
Either everything is fair game or nothing is.
If you are going to take the mick out of Christians, you should be prepared to take the mick out of Jews, Buddhists, Muslims and all other religious groups. If you are going to take the mick out of the Germans, you should be prepared to do the same for the French, Americans, British, Mexicans and any other nationality. If you are not prepared to do so, or at least accept others doing so, you should never have made the first joke.
The same goes for laughing at those jokes: If you find one funny, you should not be offended by another.
I just wish Top Gear could find a way to loose it's "factual" status. It is a comedy, centred around the banter between the hosts, with a few cars thrown in. As Clarkson said at an awards show recently, there hasn't been a fact on Top Gear for years.
And, as with any comedy: If you are easily offended, don't watch it.
I am Dutch and have spent most of my life living in Europe. A couple of years ago I moved to Mexico. Frankly I couldn't care less about Top Gear's food likes and dislikes. However, their stereotypes about Mexicans being lazy need some serious fact checking. For example, stores in Mexico are open around 362-363 days a year. Most people only have 6-10 days vacation a year. In my experience, I have never worked as hard as I do now, just to keep up with my Mexican co-workers. This may come as a surprise to many, but Mexico has changed quite a lot since the end of the XiXth century when most those country stereotypes where set. That is why it is quite hard to find Frenchmen in Paris wearing a béret while holding baguettes under their arm on Sundays or English men wearing a bowler hat. The world has changed, update your facts.
Most people don't actually think that Mexicans are really like this.
Of course, most people aren't in such a rush as to take something so seriously and to be offended on behalf of people who aren't actually offended. Fortunately, I know that most Dutch and Mexicans have a sense of humour, unlike you and the Mexican ambassador.
With your level of inability to not take things seriously, I have to wonder if you are really Dutch, or if it's just a typo for Deutsch...
I just went to show a friend the source of all the scandal and guess what... Top Gear Season 16, episode 2 is no longer available on iplayer! Episode 1 is still there.
If it does reappear I guess it will be about 3 minutes shorter.
Looks like the BBC have finally lost the last vertebrae in their increasingly floppy spine!
1 - Be truly remarkable so that people will naturally notice you.
2 - Punch people in the face.
Top Gear staff opted for the latter.
I myself stopped watching Tog Gear ages ago as, in addition to the point stated above, everything is staged and thus not really teaching you anything (I won't even mention the star of the day pointless banter). Hence I couldn't find any redeeming value to the show, and found that sipping a cuppa while mining my navel for colourful fluff was a better use of my time, especially since it also saves on electricity bills.
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