Court orders seizure of PS3 hacker's computers A federal judge ordered prolific hacker Geohot to turn over his computers and hard drives and to stop publishing the tools used to root Sony's PlayStation 3 after finding his hack was likely a violation of US copyright law. The temporary restraining order was issued on Thursday by US District Judge Susan Illston of San …
The hardware may be yours to do with as you please, and that part of DCMA has never and likely never will be tested. The violation is that he PUBLISHED the results of what he did with his hardware and INCITED other to do likewise. This is what DCMA prohibits because it defrauds the COPYRIGHT holders of the software sold for the device.
You don't have to like it, but you do have to understand it.
I don't believe he incited (encouraged) anyone to violate copyright but rather provided a mechanism which would allow them to do it but which has a fully legitimate use (running Linux and/or home-brew games) which is perfectly legal.
I believe there's some case law on this matter, "Sony Corporation of America v. Universal Studios." Funny that...
... and which was a feature of the console before Sony decided to remove it. You know, so the tools can be used to take the product back up to the function level it was at when originally launched (and for the first few years of it being on the market).
Couldn't it also be used to allow users to play PS2 and PS1 games on their PS3 as well (now that Sony's gotten rid of that feature from their console, again a launch-date feature)?
This sort of thing has got to be legal, surely?
so when you say " that part of DCMA has never and likely never will be tested" what you really mean is no DCMA lawyer in their right mind (is there such a thing?) would allow this to be tested in court as the existing Jail breaking exemption already exists (Jail breaking officially granted DMCA exemption | Phones | iOS ...) and so they automatic loose under existing common law rules.
"The violation is that he PUBLISHED the results of what he did with his hardware and INCITED other to do likewise."
NO , that is your perception of the case put forward, it wrong as you conveniently Omit the vital parts required to reach never mind prove such a legal conclusion.
"This is what DCMA prohibits because it defrauds the COPYRIGHT holders of the software sold for the device."
NO, again this is your personal perception, its wrong, it does not defraud, deprive or other wise the copyright holder of anything, the copyright holder has already been payed for the use of their copyright IF the Owner of the hardware wishes to use that copyright software.
if the user and owner of the hardware device wishes to use another vendors software under another licence then they are free to do so.
that users choice has nothing to to with the original copyright holder as if you want to try and tie software copyright to a peace of hardware as Sony did the moment they sold and advertised that device with Linux OS capability's then it's legally clear that part of the so called use of the original copyright has already been payed for by said user to use as required and as they see fit to re-instate that prior advertised functionality.
as you say "You don't have to like it, but you do have to understand it" but you also need to put it in legal perspective not your personal perspective unless you can also show existing case law ?to back up your perception.
and remember you cant cop out by using the mantra but the device consumer contract says this so it is so, Its Not so if that consumer contract is one sided and does not also allow the other party (the end user that buys the hardware) to also enforce their rights, its 'an invalid clause' not legally enforceable on a court of law.
Since when did processing power equate to a good game?
Most of the games released now take spade loads of processor for what is in essence a piss poor game as many of the people me included found when we bought COD. I could list many other games which required huge processors and again were shit games.
It’s not the size of the ship but the motion of the ocean which makes the difference.
Epic fail for the Sony employee's/apologists. Do you really believe your own hype?
So who do these Sony apologists work for? I think we should know
Levis are suing a number of famous rappers for wearing their jeans in a fashion that is not in keeping with their terms of service. A Levis representative today stated: "We know that these rappers encourage crime through their lyrics and to a lesser extent, fashion crimes through their improper use of our clothing. We are simply seeking to protect our intellectual from organised crime and terrorism." This latest lawsuit comes in the wake of the suit brought by General Motors against the infamous car hacker Xzibit. The hacker and his hacking ring known as "Pimp My Ride" and famous for the catch phrase "yo dawd", were ordered to pay $16 trillion dollars in damages to General Motors for hacking their automobiles to run unathorised programs such as "5p33d1|\|g" and the recently exploited "r4m r41d" that continue to endager lies and net millions for criminals world wide.
seems to me that this goes a bit far, my field is forensics and if we can't break systems we own to figure out what data is useful then we could all be in trouble. Sony seem to have dropped the ball here and are blaming everyone else for it, nothing new there. But using legislation designed to prevent copying to hide sloppy coding and security seems a bit lame. If you buy a piece of kit its yours whether you decide to use it to turn your lights on and off or take it apart to see how it works , you own it end of. The manufacturers rights should end at point of sale if they have made a cock up before you have bought it then it is their problem. But government will always back big business in these situatuions so i gues the true innovators who have broken the ps3 will get treated like criminals, which is horse shit in my opinion.
Sure, the PS3 is yours, but the code within isn't (that's only licensed, as is any form of software). The code (and that includes the secret keys) still belongs to Sony and, according to the suit, was never GeoHotz's to redistribute. It's a case of property rights butting right up against copyrights because a piece of copyrighted information is encapsulated in an object that can only be described as property. Given the implications, this case could go all the way to Washington (either to the Copyright Office or to the Supreme Court) so as to finally draw the line.
As in previouse posts regarding the automotive example, the same could be said about cars. Most cars (even older models) will have a form of "OS" this could also be said to be licensed out to the user including all the other bits that ford has had to licence out on your behalf to build the car. The difference being that changing your cars engine etc doesn't really effect Ford as they have made their money on the sale.
Sony however rely on the sale of highly inflated game prices to cover the cost of a machine that is "too expensive to make a profit on", this isn't a surpise to Sony, the only surprise should be that it took this long to hack the machine! You don't see Ford producing a car that runs on gold and then complaining when people change it for a petrol engine!
The games industry is slowly turning into that of the music industry, outdated sales model with no thought on the future, the xbox was hacked ages ago and I don't see a drop in games being made for that console... Offer people xbox live and perhaps introduce a "VIP" pass as EA have used and you're onto a winner, don't make your customers into criminals!!!
at a loss to drive other money making competitors out of business. According to popular sentiment, none of the game console manufacturers sell their console at a profit, so no money making competitors are driven from business. Also none of them have gone out of business or even suffered significant markets share loss as a result of pricing behavior.
This is what is known in the industry as a loss leader. Loss leaders are particularly common practice for things like grocery stores or supermarkets where the retailer voluntarily takes a loss on a couple of sale items in the store hoping to draw in customers and make up for that loss by the volume of other sales they make when the customer stops in for the special sale item. A prime example of this in the US would be the sale on turkeys around Thanksgiving and Christmas.
...but in the UK, at least, this is not part of the contract of sale, so is not enforcable. IANAL (obviously ;) ), but IMO you own the whole caboodle!
However, I'm sure they'll nab him in the US, if nothing else because, as I understand it, the DMCA has gotcha for even just *discussing* copy protection bypass mechanisms, which presumably, he is bang to rights!?
His only chance, presumably, is the whole jurisdiction thing, but then, Sony could presumably just file a new action in the "correct" location, even if it isn't as Corporate Rights friendly, as I said, I suspect the DCMA's got him easily anyway...
IANAL, but as I understand it, copyright gives it's owner the right to control copying of works.
One day, a hung-over (or still drunk) judge said that when software is executed, it is copied because it is "copied" from the storage to the processor for execution, and that the copyright owner can attach conditions to this copying to their heart's content.
However when playing a record, no one comments about how the shape of the groove is "copied" as vibrations on a needle, currents in a wire, vibrations on a speaker cone and then compressions in the air. When I look at a banknote, a "copy" of the banknote exists on my retina, but I am not guilty of copying banknotes!
WTF! Please can we undo this crap about running software is copying it, and therefore needs a special license.
Copying software is copying software, and _should_ be punished. But people who have bought software should be allowed to use it.
As for this case; if Sony / Apple sold a computer and put something in a place to stop people running _their own_ software on it, and someone works out how to do it, then tough for Sony / Apple. If instead Sony allowed people to run their own software, but the commercial games had to have a special key, then that's different.
Enough idiots will buy Sony, Apple, Nokia and other peoples products which come with these restrictions on their use, what you can and can't run on it, do with it and so forth.
If those people were to say 'well I won't pay for something so restricted' then the manufacturers would remove the restrictions.
For most people though it really doesn't matter, most don't try and do anything 'unusual' with their games console or mobile phone.
as I think the same thing (e.g. I don't like being locked down so I don't use an iPhone). BUT in this case I think you're wrong.
The PS3 was sold as having features (like playing PS1 & PS2 games and the ability to run Linux). It was greatly anticipated by many in the tech community for the latter (a superfast cell processor tied in to a lightweight OS- with the ability to play proper games as well!) and by the general public for the former (yaay! I don't have to buy games immediately; my existing collection will work!)
These features have been removed by Firmware update by Sony. When manufacturers start removing features from their products post-sale (and give you nothing in return), you _should_ moan. Doing something more substantial would be preferable, but that's easier with lots people banded together (which is only accomplished by moaning- establishing that you have a common grievance).
If these hadn't been launch features (and a production feature for years) then they wouldn't be worth moaning about (case in point: Linux on the Xbox. It wasn't sold as doing it, so don't moan if it doesn't work). But as they were, it is.
..... in the UK at least, making that copy is considered Fair Dealing. Otherwise, there would be no way you could use the product you own for its rightful purpose, and you would have redress against the retailer under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 As Amended (Goods not fit for purpose).
Locking-out third party developers as Sony do will in all probability be found to illegal in mainland Europe (where DVD players now have to be multi-region by law) if and when tested in the courts.
Therefore, a private key isn't copyrightable (as it's essentially a random number).
The problem is, DMCA makes it a crime to distribute any info that can help break the copyright protection mechanisms, which is the essence of this lawsuit - he didn't break the copyright, he just created something that *may* be used for that.
"...so as to finally draw the line."
In recent years SCOTUS has rarely finally drawn the line, rather they have fuzzed the line in such a way as to invite further lawsuits, thus ensuring the full employment of the parasite class otherwise known as lawyers while the Copyright Office has shown themselves incapable of even fuzzing the line.
Check: < https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:30hHr5XIU2UJ:geohot.com/old_index.html+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=firefox-a&source=encrypted.google.com >.
This will no doubt be of interest to adventurous PS3 owners who are banging their heads on the bars.
I have a Sony home theater receiver, a 37 year old Sony TV, a Sony VCR, an early Sony OEM DVD drive, and a fat Sony PS3 which retains the OtherOS capability. I also have (I think) all of George Hotz's code.
The receiver is broken and will be replaced, probably Denon. I never will purchase another Sony product. I like to think I am far from alone.
Just buy a gaming PC - granted the initial outlay is considerably higher but you get better games for it - I've clocked up almost 400 hours in Civ 5 since I bought it, about 300 hours on TF2 (according to Steam) and probably about the same on X3 games, no idea how much on Total War games - none of which are available on consoles. I suspect, from that list, only TF2 would even work on a console (from a UI standpoint as much as anything else) - but it would utterly ruin it by moving from server/client to p2p.
The only console games that have come close for me have been in the Metal Gear Solid, Gran Turismo and Final Fantasy series (I mostly game on a PC but I've owned all three generations of Playstation).
2009 was the year of the PS3
http://features.metacritic.com/features/2009/the-best-games-of-2009/
2010 was also the year of the PS3
http://features.metacritic.com/features/2011/best-video-games-of-2010/
2011 is clearly already the year of the PS3 too.
http://www.play.tm/news/32703/analyst-ps3-s-2011-exclusive-line-up-one-of-the-best-in-gaming-history/
There are based of meta-ratings from lots of sites, as we all know that many sites are very biased towards the Xbox, due to either American allegiances, or Microsoft mammoth advertising budgets.
If you don't have a PS3 yet, then you are the only loser here. Stop kidding yourself and believing everything the American gaming blogs tell you about the American console.
what great games are out there for any of the game platforms that are actually any better than the games available on my old atari tv console (with its squash, tennis, football).
What I see is increasingly mindless and colourful 'shoot em ups' , rather unimpressive 'driving games' and a very small number of 'intelligence games' which really don't stretch anyones imagination or brain power.
Suckers root their kit in order to play games for cheap. My point is if suckers can't bother to pay for an original game then they don't deserve to play. I bet that quite a few game coders out there who look after their family with their hard earned cash will agree. Well done for the law.
Do Sony and others of their ilk pay people/a business to go to sites like this one and protect their public reputation by arguing against any sane discussion being held.
Too many times I noticed rational arguments/opinions being met with complete dismissal before being finished with a flourish as to how good/loving/legally correct the object of the discussion is. Seems moral arguments mean nothing to these people.
And they always seem to be anonymous cowards.
I sure there is a interesting study there if anybody could be bothered doing a little analysis
But what I do believe is happening here is that previously people just went out bought a system and never read the T&C's. They didn't care as long as it did what it was supposed to. I don't think that attitude will continue for much longer. Users will start to read/be aware the increasing unfair conditions and this will affect their choices of what to buy. How long will it be before Sony is viewed as a monopoly and a competitor has to be established? Will the market level itself? Is that what is happening now?
This discussion wasn't about Freetards although commentardss seem to be determined to develop it into that argument. The discussion was about whether an owner/person/user should be allowed to change/hack/modify their own hardware/software but I guess your comment proves my point. When you have nothing of consequence to say you infer it is linked to Freetards/Pirates/Terrorists/Pedos.
I love screwing/tinkering around with my PC. That's why I have a PC and not a MAC. You can't screw with a MAC or a PS3 so they are of little interest to me
Maybe just a troll I don't think so…. Israel has long been known to employ Web Activists to patrol the internet reporting, engaging and contradicting discussions critical to Israel. So what's you motivation in changing the focus of this argument anonymous coward? Are you being paid to be here?
"I love screwing/tinkering around with my PC. That's why I have a PC and not a MAC. You can't screw with a MAC or a PS3 so they are of little interest to me"
Nah it just requires more thought to screw with a Mac. I used to enjoy attacking ROM chips and and multipliers with soldering irons on my Macs in the good old PPC days.
Of course these days its cheaper just to run a Hackintosh.
By the way MAC is Media Access Control, a Mac is a Macintosh.
Following their legal success today, a spokesman for Sony said the company will now be, "turning their attention to a stable door that has been left open, reclaiming lost toothpaste for future use, and committing resources to returning their cat to its soft storage receptacle."
I'm sure we all wish them the best of luck with that.
IOW, the horse hasn't escaped yet. It still isn't possible to install custom applications onto a stock PS3 without hacking it in some way. The big problem is there are only two avenues for installation normally, and neither one has been hacked yet (Game discs have a hardware lock, and downloads are protected by Sony's SSL key, which is still unknown). All Sony needs to do is release a new firmware that reinforces this restriction by making sure no other installation method can ever be opened again. Don't be surprised if they remove the firmware-by-USB route (thus killing the jailbreak keys), make all future firmware updates go through SSL (thus killing the man-in-the-middle approach), and prevent any form of downgrading, even by Sony itself, once installed (thus killing using Service Mode to downgrade it to a hackable version).
Although there have been plenty of Blu-Ray keys published if you know where to look, there is no single 'do everything' key published that can't be revoked.
You are likely thinking about the HDCP key - that's the encryption that goes on across the HDMI cable and actually has nothing to do with Blu-Ray.
Punishments can only be rendered after trial. Restraining orders have been and will continue to be useful and effective tools of the law to protect citizens from criminal activity. The clearer example is the spouse who obtains a restraining order against a violent soon to be ex. But if the law is to be fair to all, that has to extend beyond that example. Another example would be the restraining issue ordered by the Illinois Supreme court that the Board of Elections could not proceed to print ballots without Rahm's name on them until the court had heard the case. Without the order, irreparable harm could have been done to Rahm's case before the verdict was rendered. (Personally I'm of the opinion that the final verdict was wrong, but even before hand I grant that the restraining order was legally in order and necessary).
Er. No.
At this stage the Judge can only find against Sony if he believes that in the balance of probabilities Sony will lose.
Sony still has a massive up hill battle to win. The first being that they have yet to prove that Geohot actually is the person they claim he is.
Sony are way up there with Apple in their contempt for customers.
If you want a packaged solution which you may only use in the manner prescribed by the manufacturer, buy from one of these companies and live with it, preferably in silence.
If not, buy from someone more accommodating.
If the "walled garden" vendor's bottom line is hurt, they'll change their ways. As long as they're making money, they won't.
The inconvenient truth is that they're making money.
(Hand grenade because they're pretty)
I may be jumping to conclusions here, but your post reads like you condone rape of young boys - and you want a _hacker_ locked up!
I wish El Reg would change the AC handle to Anonymous Arsehole, because that seems to be the main* reason people post AC - i.e. to post something they are ashamed of admitting to with their regular handle.
*Unless the article is about privacy of course, and then it's de rigueur.
Thought they were being cool too...
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/01/28/two-schoolboys-arrested-in-investigation-into-hackers-who-attacked-credit-card-firms-over-wikileaks-row-115875-22880653/
These things will catch up with you. You publish codes, circumvent security, the law will catch up with you. 4CHAN won't be there to bail you out then thou.....
If i were Geohot i would just look on Craiglist for someone selling an old Pentium 3 computer for $10 and put the PS3 'crack' on it and hand that over, after all they don't know which computer he uses if they havent served a warrant and confisgated his computer personally.
But to be honest just as in the DVD copy protection from a few years ago, once the horse has bolted its no good trying to close the stable door by now stopping him from publishing it as its already on the interwebs and i expect 1000s of forums and other websites have mirrored the info now.
All that this tells people who want to try and crack further consoles etc is to use a proxy server located outside the US to publish the info so you can't easily be traced so the big corps will have no one to try and sue so will instead spent the money on trying to make their systems better rather than on expensive lawyers.
Don't forget, Sony removed the option to use Linux on the PS3. I am sure Sony were quite within their rights to do this (who reads pages of legal small print). They will have annoyed plenty of people by doing this and I fully support people bringing this facility back to the PS3.
I don't regularity use Linux on my PC although I would like to at some point.
Also, why do companies that release powerful games consoles "cripple" them? The PS3 (and Xbox 360 and the wii to some extent) have the potential to be ultimate media centers but it often takes the hackers to realise this potential - see XBMC on the original Xbox.
I hacked my Wii to play avi's, mkv's, and other formats as well as DVD's.
Seeing the wii has the ability I don't see why nintendo just didn't make it a system channel and charge like $5.
Instead you have to hack it run a pile of commands that potentially could brick the system, if you fudge up, and run some home brewed app like WiiMC to watch them.
Another recent unlock exploit was achieved by using a 'cloud' service. If this had been the situation in this case how would you go abut impounding the 'cloud'.
I hope the Defendant in this action has gathered together all his old 386/486 junk, and a very old hard drive to give to the court - suitably erased, of course.
In the mean time Google has, once again, come to everyone's assistance with their 'Cache' feature <https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:30hHr5XIU2UJ:geohot.com/old_index.html+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=firefox-a&source=encrypted.google.com >.
An interesting part of the page reads:
-----
erk: C0 CE FE 84 C2 27 F7 5B D0 7A 7E B8 46 50 9F 93 B2 38 E7 70 DA CB 9F F4 A3 88 F8 12 48 2B E2 1B
riv: 47 EE 74 54 E4 77 4C C9 B8 96 0C 7B 59 F4 C1 4D
pub: C2 D4 AA F3 19 35 50 19 AF 99 D4 4E 2B 58 CA 29 25 2C 89 12 3D 11 D6 21 8F 40 B1 38 CA B2 9B 71 01 F3 AE B7 2A 97 50 19
R: 80 6E 07 8F A1 52 97 90 CE 1A AE 02 BA DD 6F AA A6 AF 74 17
n: E1 3A 7E BC 3A CC EB 1C B5 6C C8 60 FC AB DB 6A 04 8C 55 E1
K: BA 90 55 91 68 61 B9 77 ED CB ED 92 00 50 92 F6 6C 7A 3D 8D
Da: C5 B2 BF A1 A4 13 DD 16 F2 6D 31 C0 F2 ED 47 20 DC FB 06 70
-----
Just paste the above into Notepad and all should be revealed/readable.
Guess this is yet another judge who is gaining InterNet knowledge whilst 'on the job'.
...because if the code was published on a page where there was any advertising, someone was making money from Sony's IP, and that's illegal (I Hate Ryan Air.com suit as precident).
No money being made = fair game.
Hotz is obv a talented guy with a non-illegal goal, I wish him the best of luck fighting this.
This post has been deleted by its author
There are plenty of other good manufacturers out there, the only way they will listen is if nobody buys their products.
These people have a long history of trying to stiff you the consumer, fancy a rootkit on your PC then just ask those nice folks at Sony.
Regards
Mr F.U. Sony
What you do, is buy a PS3, buy a USB key, stick on the backup manager, fill your hard drive with games rented (soon to be downloaded!!!, ISO's on the way) from block buster, lovefilm etc and then hit em where it hurts. First, Sony loose money on consoles but make it on the games, well, if you aint paying for the games then its a double hit for Sony.
Now, before the broadside, as a rule i dont condone piracy but in Sonys case, i'm happy to shaft them. After all, they have shafted us umpteen times.
Up the jolly roger.....
www.eurasia.nu for the latest....
How about Uncharted 1, Uncharted 2, Motorstorm 1, Motorstorm 2, Resistance 1, Resistance 2, Little Big Planet 1, Little Big Planet 2, Heavy Rain, Killzone 2, God Of War 3, Infamous 1, Mod Nation Racers, and Wipeout HD. That's just the games I think any gamer should have at least played.
And that's just the games that are out. Confirmed and coming soon there is Uncharted 3, Resistance 3, Killzone 3, and Infamous 2. I'm sure there's a load more too, that's just off the top of my head.
That's not to say the Wii/360/PC doesn't have their share of great exclusives, and equally not to say that the PS3 doesn't have it's share of absolute clangers (I'm looking at you Lair and Haze). But actually, for me at least, the PS3 has way more excellent games. Virtually all of my favourites for the last few years are PS3 exclusive.
And you yourself mentioned 2 of the most defining games of their particular genres (assuming GT5s genre is driving simulation) Metal Gear Solid 4 and GT5.
The old standard of "PS3 has no games" has long been far from the truth, that's for sure.
"Out of the 20 "must have" games you mentioned in your post 13 of them are sequels, and 3rd or 4th sequels at that. To any non-Sony fanboy that's pretty fucking pathetic."
AS pathetic as having a console that owes its mere existance to one single game? If it hadn't been for Halo, the Original Xbox would have gone the way of the 3D0 and the Apple Pippin. And it still is the #1 reason to own an XBox360, that and Gears of War.
As much as I hate Sony for pulling the 3.21 "remove OtherOS" bait-and-switch, I would rather buy another PS3 to be able to play games released after April 1, 2010 than purchase a 360. Barring the Linux brouhaha, Sony actually lets you stick a bog-standard HDD in your PS3, while MS will make you buy an overpriced "Xbox HDD".
You know WHY the PS3 has so many sequels? Because the original games were brilliant. Maybe in your world, you release a game, then forget all about it, but to my mind, that only happens when the game was shit. Really, I think that that is a fair old chunk of clutching at straws. SEQUELS DON'T COUNT LOLOLOL.
And also - try to know anything. Most of those games debuted on the PS3 in HD, not to mention that the 2 games referenced in the original post - MGS4 and GT5 - are both sequels!
So anyway, flaming aside - do tell what must have games you enjoy that are not available on the PS3 and (for some bizarre reason) have NO sequels? Half life..oh. Gears of..ah. Halo...hmm. Civiliz...damn. In 2011 I think you'll find that tricky.
We have a PS3 and a PC well capable of gaming.
I prefer sitting on a comfy sofa to sitting on a dining room chair.
I prefer our 46" TV to the 17" monitor.
I like the holdability of a controller over KB & mouse.
Yes I do both.
And I am using a rather DRMed PC gaming system, but everyone loves it - Steam.
You do know that most TVs these days have DVI/VGA/HDMI ports in them? You know, so you can hook up a real computer?
Also a controller might be good for some games, but for a first person shooter all other interaction methods fail beside the awesomeness of ye olde keyboard+mouse combo. At least until we have some kind of funky augmented reality stuff going on like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyCyzB0CedM
And Steam/EA Downloader/whatever Ubisoft's utter horse-wank is, can suck my balls. That is all.
When you have a series which you enjoy, which gets new and exciting games which provide different stories you are happy with sequels.
HL2 metioned before - sequel
Portal 2 soon - sequel
To many gaming fans near the end of the year there are two "3" sequels being released, my favourite series Uncharted and a lot of peoples favourite Mass Effect.
Why are they worse by being sequels?
Well they are not, they are well respected series.
depends on your definition of "best".
The best game in the world has already been released: Half Life 2.
I stopped gaming shortly after completing it. There's no point anymore, all other games are a thinly veiled excuse to let low IQ (think 20-40) 12 year old boys mash buttons and look at badly rendered CGI tits. So they can spend all day drooling into their laps which when you think about it is a lot more productive than the life of crime they would almost certainly be leading otherwise, given that they are hopelessly unimaginative. In that respect; Sony's infinite potential for criminally immoral behavior fits their customers like a fine satin glove.
To hell with the lot of them.
...had not removed the "Run other OS" option (which was initially cynically added to get tax breaks) then they would not have this trouble. "Other OS" let people do amazing things with PS3s. Even MS have wised-up and stopped threatening everyone who hacked the Kinect.
Why is Sony not in court for breach of contract or something for removing this feature?
None of this is likely to save Hotz from serious jail time though.
Hotz's hack simply allowed Linux to use the full capabilities of the hardware. There was no threat to Sony's bottom line with it and thus no reason to kill off other OS. Besides it required a soldering iron. By removing the other OS option they opened themselves up to soft mods that will eventually lead to the ability to play backup discs (backed up from your buddy's copy of course). It was a dumb move on their part.
And for the record, they did get sued. I haven't heard anything about it in a while, but I remember reading about the plantiffs trying to get class action status.
No rewriting ... in fact Hotz did that because Sony decided to take away that option in the PS3 Slim. IIRC he was mostly trying to get OtherOS capabilities in the Slim as well, and unlocking the HW restrictions in all PS3s initially. He didn't actually gun for piracy.
The fail0verflow dudes even explained this in the CCC conference.
....... I have not purchased anything from Sony. I purchased a Sony TV in 92 that was awful in terms of quality and reliability (was one of the top Trinitron range at the time), Received very bad service and vowed then not to buy anything else from them. Over the years, with their various underhanded actions against consumers, It has become a principle thing.
I do not give my custom to any company that operates in a similar fashion to Sony (and Apple). Of course I am sure I have purchased hardware with Sony components in but that is unavoidable.
As a techie nerd I always get asked by friends and family what I would recommend in terms of the latest gizmo's............. Sony are simply blacklisted, I do explain that some of the kit is good but also add information on the way they trade. I do not recommend Apple either, I just make sure the buyer is aware of what they getting themselves into.
I am happy to report that I have 100% success rate with Sony (as in nobody I know has bought any of their kit) and only a couple of people ended up buying Apple iPhones (but not computers).
Same old story, if more people do this, ultimately these companies will have to re-think the way they treat consumers.
I buy what is good, manufacturer doesn't matter.
Sony make some of the best video cameras - so when I needed a new one - what did I get? I am not going to buy something else just due to brand - that is a little silly.
I would even buy Apple of they made something I wanted and were best or good at it.
Feds and Met close in on kids and young people assuming they've captured all the ringleaders of the recent anonymous 'retribution' activities.
Apple and Sony sue to prevent you from 1) being able to use their software/firmware in a way that they feel is not in keeping with their terms and conditions and which may harm their commercial interests in some obscure way 2) being able to spread the knowledge on the internet so that they cannot control it or prevent people from seeing and using it.
EU president makes noises about controlling the internets in some fashion to make it 'fair' for everybody and protect us all from ourselves.
Great firewalls in China and Australia are maintained to filter anything which may be harmful to us or our children.
US has public (corporate) debate on whether there should be a two tier internet.
Is it me, or is the old guard trying to crack down on the internet so that in the future, when the revolution comes, we will be powerless to twitter together a flash mob to protest about our inability to enforce our rights to use our sentient internet connected bread toasters as we damned well please?
Come to think of it, will protesting be legal by then?
Do what you want with the hardware, its yours you bought it. The software however is still the property of Sony and breaking this is against the law (and should be in my opinion).
And around games being expensive, take the movie industry as an example. The recent COD game (or MW2 i cant remember) had a similar budget to Titanic. Personal tastes aside people pay between £10-£15 to watch a film at the cinema and between £5-£20 for the DVD/Bluray is purchased when it comes out.
Now take an average price of £40 each game I think its very good value for money, in fact I would say its better value for money than watching a film. Include MP games and the value for money gets even better (if you play these).
Think what I am saying is the game industry market is growing but is still relatively small compared to the movie industry which can take advantage of economies of scale.
The whole "games are too expensive" argument is null and void, take it into the realy world and think about it for a bit.
After all the rampant homebrew on PSP hurt Sony...oh, wait, not at all. In fact, it actually HELPED their bottom line as people lined up to buy the things so they could run homebrew apps (that is the sole reason anyone I know who had a first gen PSP went that route rather than getting Game Boys of various flavors).
That said, what's the big deal? So the PS3 is cracked. Big deal. So is every other console on the planet. It would have been cracked years ago if not for the other OS option. It's no coincidence that we didn't see a softmod until after Sony removed other OS. It's simple: The Linux-on-a-toaster crowd are the ones with the skill to get homebrew on consoles. Take away their reason for cracking your console and you'll never have to worry about pirates making a softmod. That was epic fail part 1.
If dont like the PS3, then fair enough but stop going on about how aweful it is , how you would never buy from Sony and it seems you never had anyway.
Its that simple, dont like the PS3/Sony, then shut up and go away. This has nothing to do with you!
We have all the current consoles in our household (PS3/360/Wii). I happen to prefer the PS3. I dont want to go into a bitch fest to why, but its the one I like.
I'm also quite happy that Sony is trying to keep the PS3 locked down. It means that if I play online I can play against other people that havent got a cracked copy with some rampant cheating.
I dont delude myself to thinking that Sony is doing what they are doing to benefit anything but their business but the way I see it is that NOTHING they are doing is going to me any harm. In fact, SHOCK HORROR, I'm pleased.
Benefit to me:
- No cracked game allowing online cheating
- Games can be shared between friends as they not locked down to a machine/account
- No piracy means that the PS3 is a sustainable platform for game developers
Disadvantages:
- None
If you want "Freedom", get Linux and develop away. If you want "Free", get an Xbox or PC and download pirated from the Torrents. Why the anti-Sony brigade keep bitching is beyond me .....
Flame on...
I was seriously considering purchasing a PS3 to add to my entertainment system.
Wii and Xbox are out of the question already.
I won't be purchasing ANYTHING Sony anytime soon.
I've got plenty of other tech toys so I won't be hurting.
This is just the latest BS they've pulled and it's the last straw.
When you buy a PS3 it is heavily subsidised based on the asumption that you will buy legitimate games and films for it. If you then mess around with it so that you can copy games without paying for them, it is not unreasonable to consider that a bad thing. If this guy is publicising the means to do that, then shutting him up is not a bad thing.
There have been some dubious strawman analogies thrown up in this thread, several involving car parts. Well here's a more accorate analogy -
It's like messing around with the engine management software in your car to circumvent that annoying reverse collision detection system system you don't like 'because it is your hardware' . The result is a less safe car, and in addition to voiding the warranty and your insurance you should also be liable if you reverse over someone
Just because you own a device does not mean you should have the right to alter it in a way that potentially harms others - either physically or financially. Get it into your self-righteous little heads.
You see, your example of backing over someone is covered by OTHER LAWS. As long as I don't mess around DIRECTLY with anyone, I should not be held criminally responsible for ANYTHING. My toys, my rules. If I wake up the neighbors with an overdriven amp, that's Disturbing the Peace. If I monkey with my well and mess up the neighbors' as well, that would likely be Criminal Negligence. If I back into someone and hurt them, that's either Criminal Negligence or Vehicular Assault, depending on the severity. But if the only person I affect is myself, then it's none of your business. Or would you like your fundamental right to property compromised further?
<quote>It's like messing around with the engine management software in your car to circumvent that annoying reverse collision detection system system you don't like 'because it is your hardware' . The result is a less safe car, and in addition to voiding the warranty and your insurance you should also be liable if you reverse over someone</quote>
The only similarity between being able to run your own software on hardware that you've paid for, and what you describe above is this: *Absolutely fuck-all*
Your subsidy argument and car analogy are both bizarre and incompetent. As an AC I take it Sony or there partners are paying you well.
Bread is frequently discounted by supermarkets. They don't get to tell their customers that they can only use it for sandwiches, and cannot use it to make toast or bread pudding.
The car analogy is Sony selling a saloon. Some time later at a routine service the Sony service centre fits a new lock on boot so that the owner cannot use it any more. The owner, wanting to carry luggage in the boot, discovers that it was not a good lock and that a readily available cheap padlock key will unlock the boot. He happily can carry luggage again and vows only to use non-Sony franchised service centres in the future. The owner tells his friends how they can regain the full use of their Sony cars.
Sony gets very angry with the owner. They ask a judge in another state to punish the owner for potentially carrying non-Sony authorized goods and giving Sony all of the owners cars, motorcycles, bicycles and transport related goods "just in case". They also demand that the owner be responsible for removing all the cheap padlock keys in the universe.
"It's like messing around with the engine management software in your car to circumvent that annoying reverse collision detection system system you don't like 'because it is your hardware' . The result is a less safe car, and in addition to voiding the warranty and your insurance you should also be liable if you reverse over someone"
Ford will not care if I do something like that - they may decline to honor the warrentee, but they won't care. Likewise, as long as I inform my insurance company they can up my premiums, or decide they no longer want to cover me, but beyond that they won't give a damn.
Real world, tech example. Nexus One. When I unlocked the bootloader Google explicitly told me that if I went ahead my warrentee would be void. They did nothing to stop me. Likewise they did nothing to stop me rooting. I might have lost root with one update, but it was trivial to root again. They might not warrentee my hardware any more, but they dont care enough to stop me using their services or stop sending me OTA updates.
THAT is how its done.
they can do what they like to him, its not going to stop their games getting ripped off now and its not going to stop the same happening to other peoples software in the future. still if they want to throw big bags o' cash away on lawsuits and bribes well that their prerogative, can't help thinking it would be better spent teaching their staff to do crypto better or learning from past mistakes re: pissing off the people actually capable of breaking your crypto.
also what exactly makes jailbreaking (stupid word, why did we stop just saying cracking?) the PS3 different from doing the exact same thing to the jesusphone? the dmca is such a fucking mess.
the sudden change of the judges opnion re: her jurisdiction over hotz is really is mightily suspicious too.
For standing up for the rights of consumers to use hardware they bought legally how they want.
If you ask me, Sony is behaving like a spoilt child by taking away our "sweeties" (Linux support, use of third party controllers which are far superior to the 6axis, third party Bluetooth controllers, use of old games, dev'r settings, etc) and deserves everything they get.
Due to Sony's stupidity and buggy firmware I am personally down nearly £220 because they broke my PS3 with their sh*tty V3.50 causing it to RSoD, and then demanded £150 to "fix" it.
Needless to say they can go and stick their firmware up their overpriced squeaking garbage disposal chutes, as I am not going to be firmware upgrading any device except to open :-)
And advising everyone I know to do the same, before they are locked out forever.
AC, because Sony are almost as bad as the MPAA for sending armies of lawyers after people.
Sony removed Linux, OtherOS because GeoHot has using it to have the system. It wasn't the other way round like you suggest.
PS. They didn't "demand" £150 to fix your console, it was out of warranty and they offered the service, you weren't under any obligation to take them up on the offer.
Seems this thread has been invaded my 10yr olds that don't understand basic principles.
geohot just followed their instructions on how to get the key he provided. The keys failoverflow provided already enabled linux support and homebrew, they didn't continue on to find the one geohot provided because they claimed it was only useful for piracy, but they then explained how you would go on to recover it. I imagine sony made it that way specifically so they could point out that the hack didn't have other legitimate uses.
the law is an ass.
I don't want to live in a country where your 'forced' to give up anything that isn't connected to the bodily harm of another. Surely I would back this up if the ps3 and computers were out killing people but these are simply civil matters that should never involve any 'force' for a mega corporation to go after joe user.
If you want to compare how stupid this is just think of your little neighborhood and say you know yourself that someone raped your sister/girlfriend. You know where the guy lives yet because of the way the legal system works he's out on bail. If you were to infringe upon this persons residence and attempt to claim property/evidence you would find yourself in jail yet these mega corporations get away with basically writing the law as they go around.
So sony and others like them are getting away from taking axes to disabled people in wheelchairs downloading mp3's to people that are spending hundreds of dollars on their outsourced garbage.
I had a 3d0 many years ago and it was light years ahead of the playstations to follow it. I recall the 3do even providing an ability for others to create their own games in a non-competitive environment.
The 3d0 had at least 3 hardware manufacturers and a wide array of software companys that had products on shelves around the country. One of them was actually listed as a local company as to where I live. While I don't know if this was just a ploy to list a local address it wasn't a po box and I wasn't of age to drive so I never was able to know if the place had a physical presence.
Still it all beats what Sony, Microsoft, and others do with their closed arena of gaming systems.
Now they are using the courts to come into your home?
Don't buy their products. I haven't purchased a cd in years unless it was/is from an artist that stood up to the nazi style tactics of the music industry and I sure as hell haven't purchased anything "Sony" since my ps2.
First they try and 'hack' lots of people's machines by surreptitiously installing rootkits, now they get in a tizzy because someone's hacking their machines.
It's like the kettle has been bludgened to death by the pot.
Sony have become quite the bastards over the last decade, I remember way back when they used to be a nice company and made cassette walkmans, and so did this enterprising chap - http://www.retropod.com/ - who started selling old yellow Sports Walkmans that were turned into 'trendy' iPod cases, but Sony didn't like that he was selling used cases so they threatened legal action (read the front page on the site). How petty minded can you get? FFS.
As a Linux user myself, I'm all for the open source movement and the hacking of hardware to make it do things it wasn't supposed to do.
But to post hacks on the internet that pirates can use to play downloaded games is not necessary. I feel as though it penalises the people who use their PS3 as it should be used.
You get a few thousand people taking advantage of the exploits and on the other hand, millions of legitimate users who have to constantly update their firmware and go through other security processes that Sony will now be rolling out.
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