Aussies demand Poms cough up first 'Australia' map A group of Oz agitators is demanding Blighty hand over the first map of the Lucky Country to use the word "Australia". The Australian "birth certificate" was drawn up by Brit explorer and cartographer Matthew Flinders, a Royal Navy officer, who from 1801-1803 surveyed Terra Australis, as it was then known. The home leg of his …
So, let me get this right. Flinders was a Royal Navy person (not Oz Roayal Navy) and was on his way back to Blighty AFTER doing some work there (probably not for the convicts). He drew the map in Mauritius, far, far away from Oz. That would imply then that the drawing does NOT belong to Oz. It seems more and more that today's yoof 'just want' things and think that they are 'entitled' to everything. Not so. Work for what you want and stop demanding things.
...how about putting the thing on show, instead of hiding it away - as if you are embarrassed about us.
Sheesh, just because you hang onto the Ashes you think you own the place again!
The one with the Oz flag hanging out of the pocket - I just collected that at our local authority Australia Day ceremony - ta muchly.
Exactly. I mean...
"He classifies the map as the "Elgin Marbles of Australian history", and has asked defence secretary Liam Fox to act to ensure it is in Oz in time for the bicentenary of Flinders' death in 2014."
Elgin Marbles of Australian History? Fucking idiot. It was drawn by an Englishman and is kept in England. What's so unusual about that? It's not theirs and never was so cannot be implied to be some kind of stolen item. Just get fucked, you're not having it - much like the ashes urn.
I think it would be a nice gesture to release the map to them (bearing in mind that it's also part of the history of the Royal Navy, exploration and map-making here).
The article implies they are actually being quite demanding and bitter about it, I can only hope that this is over a long-standing request for the map that's gone unheard rather than a opening salvo of nationalistic nonsense.
Do these people believe there was nothing and no-one of consequence in that land prior to Flinders' time? I thought such attitudes were considered a bit of a faux pas these days.
The only document that could reasonably be described as White Australia's birth certificate is the Act of Parliament that gave them independence. Comparable documentary evidence for Black Australia's origins are probably scratched on Uluru.
Since the Bayeux Tapestry is genraly considerd to have been made in England, by English people and then taken to France a later date we do have some claim over it, but are grown up enough to realise that these later movements are as much part of the objects history as who made it in the first place.
"We ... are grown up enough to realise that we wouldn't want to set a precedent."
There. Fixed that for you. (I'm reminded of a line in one of the Dangermouse cartoons where DM refers to "the Plundered Room of the British Museum".)
Personally I think it would be nice to have most of these objects "on tour" and the repeated claims of ownership by people aggrieved on behalf of someone else's ancestors are probably more of a block on touring than the (more obvious) financial barrier. This latest outburst is probably the sole reason why the map won't now be on show in Oz next year.
Wasn't there a group of people living in Oz prior to the a load of white trash convicts turning up,? Can't remember who they are now, Abba something? It sounds like the current incumbents of Oz seem to have forgotten too!
A beer icon as after 200 years of practice, the Aussies still can't brew a decent pint!
A few are, usually by suggesting that all non-ancient arrivals owe a self identified group permanent rent, some thing poms should know about when the romanised vikings from frogland stole the saxons land around 1066. For centuries after that these vikings tried to steal land from assorted celts also, with varying degrees of "unsuccess".
As for the map, a good photocopy would be nice, but remember, these are kids, probably in need the occasional flogging to remind them of manners. Something poms seemed to do frequently in past, given the high number of psychopaths they produce, if any of the documents and folk law in my library is an indication.
I think the comparison with the Elgin marbles is a bit off target.. Greek historic pieces being nabbed could be said to be Greek and demanded back.....but a map drawn by a visitor was hardly ever the ownership of any Aus inhabitant...
sorry Aus but asking nicely might be more appropriate...
It's not like it's an original Australian artifact.
I did however take my Dad to the Ashmolean in Oxford when he was over, I introduced it to him as the "Museum of Plunder".
Similarly, the mirror from the Leviathan of Parsonstown (Birr in the Rep of Ireland) currently resides in the Science Museum after the telescope was dismantled. I heard (an unsubstantiated) rumour that the Science Museum wouldn't give it back when the telescope was being restored.
"should be on public display in Australia, where it can be appreciated."
Unless of course it's been kept at the moment in a nice safe location away from bright light to avoid it fading.
And if it is then it probably needs to be on public display in a very dark room in the same way as the Magna carta etc.
Not the birth certificate of Australia but possibly its first "ultrasound scan"
Except we didn't go along and nick it to show off in a museum. It was drawn up by a British person working for the Royal Navy while a prisoner. So it's not really the "Elgin Marbles of Australian history" at all, as strictly speaking they have no right to "Demand" a bit of paper with their countries name written on it.
If they were nice about it then sure, give it to them. But if they are going to be dicks then I demand we not give this property over to the convicts.
p****d because we beat them in the Ashes. Sorry that should be destroyed them in the Ashes.
The Aussies have now lost their dominance again the old country in sport, we beat them on the rugby field, the cricket pitch, the velodrome, the swimming pool, etc.
You have to feel sorry for them.
Even the Easten Europeans have replaced them in their natural vocation of serving behind the bar in most of londons pubs.
A brief explanation why this map is rightfully Australia's? As far as I can see it was drawn by an RN Officer undertaking the Crown's business.
Rather than starting with polemic, trying to compare a map drawn by someone from another country to stones dismantled from the Parthenon, why didn't they respectfully ask to borrow it for the bicentennial celebrations of Flinders. It wouldn't suprise me if the UK Hydrographic Office would have actually agreed to a long term loan, if their owndership of it wasn't in question. Now I'm sure they would consider nothing of the sort.
It isn't as if the Greeks wanting Greek Elgin Marbles back.
It is as if the Greeks had the Elgin Marbles and we wanted them.
But clearly the map is worth far far more to them than to us. And they do have more money than us.
We should sell this national treasure (a British citizen created while working for Britain) to the Australians, or trade it to them.
The case for the Elgin marbles is a tricky one, because the Ottoman Empire gave them to Lord Elgin who then sold them to the British Museum. In a subsequent enquiry, the paperwork drawn up by the Turks never materialised, although someone did claim to have an Italian translation of it somewhere, but he forgot to turn up to the enquiry. It should also be remembered that the Ottoman Empire used the Parthanon as an arms depot during this time, so one stray spark from a shisha would have vapourised the whole lot anyway...
Additionally, the British Museums Act prohibits the return of any artefact unless it is "worthless or a duplicate"!
Has it;
1) Been convicted of a serious criminal offence
2) Been found to be too poor to support itself in England and stuffed on a boat
3) Been rounded up by a press gang
4) Been found guilty of being Susan Boyle ugly?
If so then we should stick it on the next convict boat going out, along with Tony Blair, Lord Levy and a whole bunch of other criminal crap we don't need. Tell you what, send the entire Leeds United team as well whilst we're at it.
Thanks for the reminder Australia, what would the civilised world do without a dustbin for our criminals, poor and chavs?
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"Being a school that is named after the great Matthew Flinders, we believe that it is within our responsibility to rise up and fight to reclaim this significant historical map that is rightfully ours."
Right!
I'm off to rename my house "The Royal Mint"....
That's my pension fund sorted.
Sam
(Jimmy Edwards icon because he would have been proud of their avarice)
"Being a school that is named after the great Matthew Flinders"
What kind of dibs and perks do you get if you name your school after Jesus Christ? Or the Marquis de Sade. Or Paris Hilton. Or anyone, really. Whiny high-pitched voice: "Can I have their stuff now, please!" Sheesh!
Come on Poms, surely you have groups of students, politicians and academics that come up with idiotic ideas? And you wouldn't want us to think the whole country felt the same way?
If you lot want to send the map over for a touring museum for the anniversary of Flinders' death I reckon that'd be a nice gesture. But in 2015 you can take the bloody thing back again, I don't want to have to pay the power bills for the climate controlled room it has to live in.
And of course if you don't want to come to the party we'll just send Warnie over to beat your whole cricket team single handed. And have affairs with half your female population.
Beer because I can't be bothered arguing.
I've always though that the US Declaration of Independence is rightfully British, given that it was us they were declaring independence from, surely it must be delivered to the English head of state, or else no independence.
As for the Flinders map, why not have it on display in Australia, given that it's currently doing nothing, and no one back in blighty has any idea who Matthew Flinders was.
In other news, Sydney is too hot.
As an Australian, even I can see the logic is truly warped and as others have pointed out, not in the interests of logevity for the document. To put this in a modern context, if I photograph someone's new house for the first time, THEY OWN the photograph?
Not bloody likely. Similarly, if there happens to be some really excellent satellite images of say an Icelandic volcano erupting the owners of the satellite have to hand over rights to Iceland for those images?
Australia has an insurgency movement at work called the Republicans who, though well meaning, don't understand that if you are going to change a system then it needs to be an improvement, not a retrograde step. The current system works rather well, aside from the fact it lets the bleeding hearts be given too much air time.
I'm off for now, just lucky I am out of the country at the moment!?
In another few hundred years it will be fucking dust anyway....
Get a super duper high resolution scan of the map and then engrave it into a slab of pure copper and then run off some prints in carbon ink and mausoleum grade paper... so it lasts a LONG time in hermetically sealed controlled atmosphere argon filled glass cases... along with the copper slab.
Hey.... print the fucking thing out on toilet rolls so we can celebrate Invasion Day while we wipe our arses....
even tho "Down Under" rates highly on the quality of lifestyle tables, we are not spared the odd gobby dickhead. (Also see "Maoris who want everyone to leave NZ and move back to Europe").
Most antipodeans couldn't give a monkeys about the empire, as long as it stays where it is and doesn't bother us. Get a grip.
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