T-Mobile imposes swingeing cuts on fair use data limits T-Mobile UK is cutting "fair use" data limits on Feb 1 from up to 3GB to 500MB and has sparked furious complaints from customers, who were told by text today of the move. T-Mobile customers on "unlimited" Android monthly data contracts who contacted The Reg were particularly aggrieved. Most were aware that the fair use policy …
i have just sent this to t-mobile via a web form on their help and support page.
feel free to copy and paste/change it for your own use.
dear sir/madam, i have just received a text message from yourselves stating that my internet FUP is being reduced from 3gb to 500mb. i am deeply unhappy about this and feel that you are in breach of contract.
i have phoned your customer services and contacted yourselves via twitter and the response has been that the internet is an additional service provided to myself that can be changed by yourselves with 30 days notice.
could you please show me;
1.where in my contract it states that the internet is an additional service?
2. where in my contract it states that my call/sms allowance is not an additional service. 3. could you also tell me, if you need to give 30 days notice of any changes to my additional services, you can send a text on the 10th of jan and change the service on the 2nd of feb?
i would wish that both my contracts with yourselves are cancelled with no further charges to my account and PAC's are supplied to myself.
I know that there's a "may vary" clause, but Damn! I'd be demanding a monthly refund or an early end to the contract.
They MAY change the terms and conditions, but surely there's something stopping them from making such crazy cuts. It's rather unfair that the company can change what they offer for the money each month, but the consumer has no such freedom.
And the response about using your home internet if you want to use your smartphone for, y'know the stuff it was advertised as doing!! THe Cheek!
What next? reducing the number of minutes you get to 10 and saying that if you REALLY want to chat for a long time, use your landline?
"If you want to download, stream and watch video clips, save that stuff for your home broadband."
I love that. telling your customers how they should live their lives.
as far as i can tell a company with good customers service should provide their customers with the product that meets their needs. not tell their customers how to modify their needs around their product.
that having been said the FUP sounds pretty reasonable. But i really don't like it when the operators just change their T&C's in the middle of your contract. why they can't make it for new customers only.
OK, so I'm in a barrack room here, but for "unlimited" customers, I reckon there's a good chance of being able to void the contract.
The key legal point would be (I think) the definition of "reasonable" - I.E. is 500mb fair use reasonable for an unlimited product.
To my mind, 3gb for a fair use policy is probably ok, given the nature of the device and the normal "reasonable" use, but unlimited in the context of a 500mb cap seems to push things that bit too far. And whichever clause in the small print they're using here might well be seen as an unfair contract term.
Either way round, it's a despicable action to vary contracts one in a one sided way without any other options. Compare with O2 (and I'm no fan of them either!) who offered new contracts with a 500mb cap for smart phones, but stood behind existing unlimited tariffs until expiry. A much more sensible approach that provides a degree of fairness to customers that Everything Everywhere seem to think unnecessary...
If this is to be a pointer to the actions that come from allowing two huge players to merge to claim 40 odd percent of the market it should never have been allowed.
The intention is to test the water on per-app segregation and move apps like facebook, google, etc into a different pricing category. Then they will charge per app. Just as they originally intended to when the financial models and revenue projections from VAS in 3G and LTE were drawn.
Surely this is a change to the agreed contract which is detrimental to the customer and therefore affected customers should be entitled to simply terminate their service without any exit fee?
Clearly Twee don't actually have the network capacity they sold (or indeed any useful coverage) and therefore will be glad to see the back of customers who actually use what they purchased...
It appears that T-Mobile are being swamped by people complaining about this change. When you phone 150 to get their customer services you get, the T-Mobile jingle followed by "Sorry, we are unable to transfer your call, sending you back to the main menu" which then just repeats until you hang up as it is transferring to itself over and over.
From the T-Mobile forums
http://support.t-mobile.co.uk/discussions/index?page=forums&topic=8010380bff24f8012d6da8429f007d13
http://support.t-mobile.co.uk/discussions/index?page=forums&topic=8010380bff24f8012d6da8429f007cec
Is it April fools day already?
I'm 2 months into a 2 year contract taken mainly for the 3GB data cap. Angry doesn't even begin to describe how I'm feeling at the moment. I feel like I've been ripped off.
I was planning on moving my girlfriend over to T-Mobile, they can kiss that one goodbye.
My contract has just come to and end and I called them only yesterday morning to move to a cheaper package, because I like to take a couple of months to check out new phones before I go back on contract.
The guy on the phone said that my new plan was 300 mins, 300 texts & 1GB data. No mention at all that the fair use limit would be lowered. I know it's not his personal fault but I feel like they have been dishonest in not telling me. I may have signed up to a new contract yesterday but luckily I didn't.
Luckily, it's the end of my contract and I will probably change to a different provider.
Not a good move TM.
Are they just texting people who go over that limit? Or everyone who signed up for a 3GB/month limit? Either way, I haven't had mine yet...
This will be to bring them down to be in line with Orange - so there's the answer to all those who wondered what 'benefits' the creation of Everything Everywhere** would bring... firstly this claw-back to the lowest common denominator, next will no doubt be stupid animal plan names and then T-Mobile's customer service will suddenly turn into a steaming heap. But hey, the future's bright...
** just not the big things. And not in all physical locations.
I never trusted this mobile internut idea. They hopelessly over-sold what wap could do, then a few years later tried to cash in on a bit of unused bandwidth. That sold, rather to the telcos surprise, so they exploited it as a new cash bonanza. Did they build a matching infrastructure? did they bollox.
When people tried to achieve what they had been sold, the telcos - who already have the cash, just withdrew the service.
Same sort of scam as adsl, but with even less chance to deliver.
My contract comes up for renewal soon. Guess what I'll be using as a bargaining chip to either seriously reduce my monthly bill, or get a much better voice/text package or handset 'in exchange' for this cut to 1/6th of my previous data allowance.
Cheeky sods.
Steven R
NB: Cell coverage and quality in North Yorks seems to be much of a muchness - so changing network probably isn't worth the bother.
I looked carefully at the T-Mobile and 3 data contracts a few weeks ago when I needed a 3G data service for my new Droid. T-Mobile appeared to be offering more data but I'm glad I went for 3, reason being that 3 are not so stupid and arrogant as to tell you what you can't do with it (i.e. you are not allowed to tether).
"Does anyone actually take any notice ..." Yes I did, and never with any intention of following it. But the anti-tethering clause did cause the loss of trust, now clearly justified by the data cap reduction, which had already resulted in my going elsewhere.
"Can the network operator even tell the difference between using a laptop to browse and the phone's own browser?"
In most cases yes, if they are willing to inspect and pattern match the HTTP (and other protocol) packet request headers sent by the client software, where laptop network client programs will identify themselves differently from mobile phone clients which do the same kind of job. Smart and knowledgeable users will be able to disguise this evidence of course e.g. by configuring browser options and using VPNs, but most users won't be bothered to do this.
What seems likely to have happened is this: The marketing guys asked the technical guys, "can we tell the difference if we have to" and the technical guys said "yes". But push would have came to shove due to more rapid growth than predicted in oversold data use and evidence of this being down to widespread tethering. So it's likely the technical guys were then asked to quantify the costs of filtering and active traffic management, and the extent to which customers would be pissed off if tethered traffic were to be limited. The marketing guys would have then chickened out and decided (possibly wrongly) that reducing caps would be less painful than using technical measures against (most) tethering. The technical guys would probably have advised the marketing guys that if technical measures were to be implemented against tethering that these would be bypassed in relatively short order by users learning how to disguise and conceal tethered traffic.
This post has been deleted by its author
I'm a long term T-Mobile user, and I'll be leaving them the second my contract expires.
The network merger with Orange has been an abortion.
Service and coverage is crap and not a patch on what it used to be.
TBH I'd be staggered if anyone could even manage to get 3GB of download in a month from the constantly dropping and slow 3G service offered by t-mobile.
"Why should I have to wait for my email because everyone else around me is streaming video from the 'net?" - when I've paid a premium for my data usage, why should I have to wait cause this service has been over subscribed?
Possibly as T mobile has been happily flogging phones with stuff like apps for you tube etc. You cant seriously sell handsets with apps installed and then castigate your user base for actually using them! I'm not a customer of this network, and never will be if this is a sample of the way this stupidly named shower is going to be run - My options for the future just reduced by one - well 2 if you look at the merger.
I would also be looking to exit without penalty given that smart phones are sold as web enabled units which require a data bundle for part of the basic operation as much of the reason for ownership (over a "dumb phone) and as such this will be a significant disadvantage to the customers affected. I guess they are counting on not many being aware of the ability/cant be bothered to challenge the contract in relation to this significant disadvantage. I dont think the "web is an added bonus" B/S will fly for a contract sold on a smart phone. Its part and parcel of what it does.
Personally I hope shed loads of customers walk. In terms of allowing a significant market share to fall into the hands of one company via a merger it looks as if Ofcom have again presided over stitch up of the UK consumer and should be disbanded and replaced by a proper regulator rather than a friend of the industry
Although the T-Mobile/Orange merger was supposedly "a merger of equals", like virtually all mergers it was really about one partner taking over the other, ie Orange taking over T-Mobile, ie the French buying out the Germans.
Now we are seeing Orange/France Telecom's legendary customer service coming through.
Yes, I have a T-Mobile contract. Yes, I chose them because of the generous data allowance. Yes, I am pissed off by this.
Hmmm.... Only reason they kept me as a customer was the unlimited data use they offered me. After constant annoyances with MMS messages. ( I get five copies for everyone sent to me) and rather dreadful reception where I live or visit.
Not that I use my 'data' tariff as the reception is poor, can't usually get 3G and rarely get anything practical for web browsing and so rely on my wireless connection to do my app downloads and updates.
Still to be expected as the infrastructure cross over with Orange and T-mobile will no doubt be in need of a shrink and that means a cut in capacity for customers?
No doubt it is within their T&Cs, but I'd also assume that such a big change is enough to allow cancellation of contract if you so desire - the question then is: who has ownership of the phone? I imagine them if their small-print writers are any good. But would the small print hold up if challenged would be the thing? Is it reasonable is always the thing lawyers love to argue over, at huge cost to everyone else.
Simple, if the phone was sold to you, then YOU own it. If they claim part or whole ownership then it becomes a rental or hire purchase agreement - which would have required certain legally specified things to have been done. AFAIK, none of the mobile contracts meet the requirements.
The ONLY thing the company can "have you" for is breaking the contract that says you'll buy their services to 2 years (or whatever). But, as already stated several times, they are making a significant change to the contract which is detrimental to you - and therefore you are legally entitled to pull out of the contract.
All you have to do is tell them that you consider their contract term change to be both "significant" and "detrimental to you", and that you are therefore cancelling the contract. YOU are in the right here, so let them squirm, waste their time trying to 'upgrade' you to stay etc. You are entitled to terminate the contract, and you are entitled to a PAC and take your number to another operator.
They are NOT entitled to any compensation or early termination penalty for this as THEY have changed the terms. Now are they entitled to ask for the phone back.
The "magic words" are the Sale of Goods and Services Act and Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations. Look them up, once they realise you know your rights, they will back down as they know they will lose.
If they are a pain, they are members of CISAS (http://www.cisas.org.uk/) and it's free (to you, it costs the company) to take a complaint there. What's more, unlike when I had a complaint with Orange, the company can no longer block you making a complaint by refusing to issue a deadlock letter.
500MB is just not enough... I use around 250MB per month (According to my bills) but I use WIFI at home and work and rarely stream media elsewhere. So that is purely the amount used for syncing my email, FB, news, weather and that kinda stuff when I'm not at home or at work (which is most of the time!).
So 500MB is hardly *fair* usage for those not covered by WIFI the majority of the time! Should be at least 1GB.
Spent all of Saurday morning trying to determine why I couldn't send mail from my laptop from my T-Mobile Broadband.
In the end determined that they had blocked the SMTP port 25 for "unauthenticated SMTP" and they were aborting the connection after the initial protocol handshake - perhaps some form of deep packet inspection a la. Phorm?
http://support.t-mobile.co.uk/help-and-support/index?page=support&cat=MOBILE_BROADBAND_HELP&tab=0&id=FA1256
T-Mobile: Fair use subject to them making it up as they go along.
"subject to change" rights, outlined in the contract small-print, to reduce fair usage down to 500MB.
Is that legal?
To change a contract once signed?
Orange did this a while back and customers invoked their right to cancel- does this mean I can cancel the contract for my Desire HD signed last week and keep the phone? hmmmmmmmmm? - probably not.
I just signed a 1GB data contract last week - is this affected? (Web n Walk)
My Fellow El Reg Commentards,
Unfortunately I have come to the conclusion - by reading these posts and T-Mobile's reactions,
that I will not be eligible to a breach in terms of contract as my Internet Plan IS offered as an additional service through a flexible booster.
I am very angry about the cutdown - especially as I have an Android Phone; 500MB is not enough - in the 1 week I had my Android phone I used over 120MB - very tight.
500MB was OK when I had a Windows Mobile phone on Orange (used about 60MB per month).
Unfortunately I am stuck in this contract for 23 more months without the right to cancel- please tell me I'm wrong.
Yes you can. The phone is yours to keep.
T-mobile is in breach of contract law, the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations, its own Terms and Conditions (30 days notice - not - epic fail), and Condition 9.3 of its General Licence from OFCOM under the Telecoms Act.
You don't need its permission to leave - it is your right. Just tell T-mobile to stuff it.
I did this last time T-mobile tried this, took them to court and won. I kept my phone and collected a cheque for £430.
T-mobile's behaviour is as unreasonable as you deciding you will pay 1/6 the amount each month. And a judge will see it that way too.
Just got an Orange San Francisco for xmas. Unlocking it to any network took about 30 seconds by searching google, debranding the Orange crap and putting Froyo on it took about an hour (I am slow).
Its a fantastic phone - even though I didnt manage to get an AMOLED one (they have changed them to LCD screens now) and I have a giff gaff sim card in there where I pay £10 pm for unlimited internet, 250 minutes and (cant remember how many) texts.
Happy and smug.
I'm on T-Mobile, running a HTC Desire and not been sent the text yet.
I believe that with such a major change to their T&Cs you can just use this opportunity to 'reject the new terms' and take your phone and number to a new provider with zero need to buyout the remainder of the contract.
This is how people got out of the old Screaming.Net and WorldOnline ISP contracts a few years back.
Most mast contention and inadequate backhaul always meant this was on the cards. Backhaul can be upgraded but it's expensive. Mast contention can only be addressed by building more masts and that's very expensive and subject to the vagaries and hassle of planning permission.
I think the way T-Mobile has handled it is poor but that's telcos for you. I think the article title says it all.
Unfortunately T-Mobile are right about one thing:Mobile broadband does not support heavy usage. Browse on the move, email on the move. Facebook on the move. Sure. But running a wireless connection flat out for lengthy periods of time is always going to be a problem.
If you go over the 500Mb limit will it cost you or have an adverse effect on your usage?
Or
Did you not get sufficient notice of "change of terms and conditions"
If so then you might have a get out clause:
http://support.t-mobile.co.uk/resources/sites/TMOBILE/content/live/DOCUMENTS/0/DO117/en_GB/36014777_Online_TCs_v1.pdf
2.11.2. If You are a Consumer and the change is of material
detriment to You, We will send You Written Notice 30 days
before the terms and conditions are due to change. The
new terms and conditions will apply to You once that
notice has run out, unless You terminate Your Agreement
with Us within that notice period. If You do this You won’t
have to pay any Cancellation Charge that would otherwise
apply, see point 7.2.3.2.
It is impossible to see the Internet Provision as a mere addendum to the two year contract when the advertising of their internet enabled, and especially android, phone contracts makes a huge play on the included internet!
I was looking at phone contracts and bargains/deal heavily over the past few weeks and a key selling point of the _direct_ t-mobile contracts was that they gave you 3GB on a android phone (or 1GB on some others) INCLUDED in the contract price. Plus the agreed minutes/texts, and Plus one other EXTRA (such as unlimited texts). This made their direct contracts about £5pm cheaper than those from resellers AND on the better phones gave you a 3GB FUP instead of a 1GB FUP. Indeed that FUP is still here: http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/services/uk/fairuse/?WT.mc_id=fup#fup2
While they did not define the limits on the sales page the FUP was unusually clear about things, and you were encouraged to read it. That to my mind makes the FUP an important part of the contract, and one would not expect it to be reduced to 1/6th of its prior value during the contract on a mere 30 days notice. Especially if anyone bought their 2 year contract in the last month. Bait and switch indeed. That's like selling you an annual train ticket and then cancelling most of the trains.
They are trying to rely on the Internet Plus bundle being an "Additional Service" as defined in their term: " an optional/extra Service which can be added to Your Account, the Charges and terms and conditions for which are set out in..." They may not get away with this since the Internet Plus booster is not 'buyable', and is really a fundamental part of those contracts. You can only remove it and they warn you of your terrible fate if you do.
As another commentator said this may well be the fruity Orange, wagging the t-mobile dog. I had previously been shocked at _how low_ orange's FUP was with many contracts only receiving 250MB/month. An android or apple phone might eat that in days, or hours!
And remember that any above contract usage is charged by almost all the phone companies at an outlandish rate often higher than their PAYG! Even phone minutes, let alone mobile internet. T-mobile's fup actually implies that they will block or throttle net use ("If you use more than your fair use policy amount, we won't charge you any more, but we may restrict how you can use your plan, depending on how often you go over your amount and by how much"). Most switch to charging 60p-102p per day (with another FUP) or even something high per MB.
Just confirmed (8.47pm 10th January 2010) and they are still marketing the bundled "internet Plus" with 3GB FUP. I wonder if perhaps they are targeting those who are "out of contract" with this new term.... Or they are targeting business users relying on this:
"2.11.1. If You are a Consumer and the change of terms and
conditions is not of material detriment to You or You are
not a Consumer, We will send You Written Notice 30 days
before the terms and conditions are due to change. The
new terms and conditions will automatically apply to You
once that notice has run out.
2.11.2. If You are a Consumer and the change is of material
detriment to You, We will send You Written Notice 30 days
before the terms and conditions are due to change. The
new terms and conditions will apply to You once that
notice has run out, unless You terminate Your Agreement
with Us within that notice period. If You do this You won’t
have to pay any Cancellation Charge that would otherwise
apply, see point 7.2.3.2."
(Sorry that's so long. So relieved we didn't take a new contract now!).
Your contract’s clause 1, “Definitions”, defines Price Plan Service as a Service included in your price plan, and an Additional Service as an optional extra Service that can be added to your account. Since data with Android is not optional and is always included, by definition in your Android contract data is a Price Plan Service and not an Additional Service – it is as core a service as telephony or SMS.
You need to write to T-Mobile within 14 days and inform them that you are cancelling your contract without notice under clauses 2.11.2 and 7.2.3.2 of your contract due to this detrimental material change of the core data Price Plan Service. The law is on your side, so ignore any attempt on T-Mobile’s part to tell you otherwise. Remember to demand your PAC code so that you can take your number to another network.
You should also express your absolute disgust to T-Mobile’s managing director Richard Moat at MDTMOB@t-mobile.co.uk – whilst this merely bounces a “we will investigate your complaint” email, you should nevertheless instigate this immediately.
Remember that even if T-Mobile changes its mind before 1st February and restores our data allowances, as long as you have given notice to cancel your contract before they do so, you are still released from your contract. So you should act as soon as possible.
More details at http://twitter.com/#!/LFT_Android/status/24583632232386561
As a customer for 3 and a half years I was pleasantly surprised when I was offered a good package and a free upgrade to a shiny new smartphone, especially the 3GB limit which I was assured 'isn't billed for if you go over'. Signed up to it at then end of last year and am still waiting for the 'phone to be delivered!! This latest news from the provinces is not welcome >:o(
Now might be time to jump ship me hearties...
Paris - for the shame of it all.
As others have mentioned, a change in T&C effectively breaks the contract. Whilst they can have a clause saying we have the right to change conditions, which they can, if it isn't accepted by the customer then there is no contract anymore.
Most people don't understand contract law and just go with it. If you don't like it, cancel and go elsewhere. There can be no cancellation fee as this would relate the old (now broken) contract. You can't keep the bits you want and impose new conditions without agreement otherwise I'll show you how to become a gazzillionaire with a simple legal contract...!
The way T-Mobile have gone about this stinks but they will argue that they are just falling into line with the other major players - Vodafone and O2 both seem to have settled on a 500MB pcm data limit for smartphones.
So the 3(4) big telecos are all offering the same the exact data limit which smacks of a cartel to me.
I guess 3 is the best bet with its One or SIM600 plans or GiffGaff, but the latter means using O2's network and even their small print forbids tethering. And of course this assumes you don't need a handset.
Perhaps T-M's 3GB FUP was too good to last and at least they aren't charging more if you go over. To be honest I hardly ever stream video or download files to my Desire so at the end of the day even though this has pissed me off massively as a T-M customer of 4 years standing (I left Orange when France Telecom screwed it up!) this change won't have any real impact of how I use my handset.
I've been looking to upgrade my aging smartphone for a while and to find Tmobile's new fair use limit is LOWER than I currently have on web'n'walk, on a mandatory contract if you buy a smartphone through them pretty much guarantees they've lost my custom.
The funny thing is when I rang to find out the contract FUP limits I was repeatedly assured by phone droids that there was no limit at all on the unlimited acounts and no FUP. What a pity I didn't record it....
I have an HTC Desire on a 2 year contract with web'n'walk plus as part of my contract (with a 3Gb cap). I did not get 'the text'.
I spoke to a rep this morning who advised that the 500Mb cap will only affect iPhone plans, and my plan will not be affected. I'll be calling again later in the day to verify this with someone else - just to be sure.
Otherwise, follow the advice posted above: their own contract terms give you the right to cancel at no charge.
I've been out of contract with them for quite some time but am on the older flext and web and walk style contracts where the mobile internet (3gb with tethering) was an optional extra that I pay for so I'm guessing I may dodge this one - certainly haven't received any text from them. This limit/facility is important to me as it acts as an emergency back up for when the ADSL occasionally goes tits up (I work from home so having a backup is important). The only reason I hadn't signed up for a new term yet was purely because of t-mobile's ineptitude regarding stocking of new handsets and their inability to call me when said stock was received. I wasn't falling for that "sign up now and we'll send out the phone when we get them" line. They were quite keen to get me off the contract I'm on when I was speaking to them about upgrading.
I'm also fortunate enough to have a friends and family discount so am loathe to switch providers as I won't get a deal as good as this anywhere else. Although this behaviour (which I was afraid of since the merger/takeover) doesn't instill much confidence in me sticking with them. I moved from Orange precisely because of their crappy data limits and that influence appears to now be taking hold.
If you could max out your 3G T-Mobile connection at 7.2Mbit/s (highly unlikely - who ever gets that?), then their monthly limit would be exhausted in 7 minutes and 30 seconds! So there's no chance of streaming a high-def movie to your phone via T-Mobile any more then...
Their contract states that changes will be communicated to the other party 30 days before those changes come into effect. That date was 2nd Jan. I haven't received notification yet, so they can't change my cap without breaching contract.
Then again, they can't change my cap anyway as that is a breach of contract (see Anon == Little Fluffy Toys post 11/01/2011 00:30)
I have just had on online chat with customer services which went:
You are about to be connected to a new connection sales advisor for T-Mobile UK. ..................
You are now connected with Emma.
Emma: Hi there, my name is Emma. I am part of the dedicated T-Mobile Online Sales Team. How can I help you with your new order?
Emma: Hi Fred
Emma: How are you?
Fred: Is the 3Gb limit on internet use on android phones still valid?
Emma: Yes it is
Fred: until when? is it due to change?
Emma: I am sorry yet we have no intimation received about it
Emma: it is 3GB a month, you need not worry
Fred: Thank you!
The names have been changed, but that's all......so why not release a press statement saying the above or is the above all lies????
But if the above is correct I am very glad, as it means I do not have to battle to get out of the contract.....as the 3gb limit was the MAJOR factor in the choice!
Just found this post from October 2009 when T-Mobile last played silly buggers with the T&Cs, should be good ammo for this time
http://www.bitterwallet.com/ofcom-back-consumers-right-to-cancel-t-mobile-contract-but-did-t-mobile-contact-you/20352
Get out there and spank T-Mobile!
All the networks are guilty of not upgrading their infrastructure to cope with all the new connections being sold (be it phones or USB dongles). Now the infrastructure cannot cope and their only option is to limit the services their customers are paying a lot of money for.
Can you imagine energy companies doing the same? Actually, I had better not joke about that, in a few years time we won't have the means to produce all the electrical power we need. Dark times ahead, literally.
Now I'm really confused.
I got through to 'Leaving T-Mobile' about an hour after you posted the story and politely (but forcably) made my point that as I had chosen to renew last summer primarially because of the 3gb FUP, and I had not been told then that streaming video etc was not allowed, I was very unhappy.
The woman at their end put me on hold to 'speak to her supervisor' and then said that ALL contracts were being capped at 500mb.
This is different to the experience others have had above.
I said that I felt this was unacceptable, and she offered a £5/month reduction on my contract cost. Not much compared to being able to break the contract and keep the phone, but it is something I suppose.
Oh... and she didn't confirm it anyway, so who knows what will happen!
Ok just got off phone with T-Mobile after 50mins.
Phillipines: ALL internet contracts are affected by the new changes from Feb 2011.
Me: OK then I reject the changes to the T&Cs and therefore you leave me no choice but to leave T-Mobile, please give me the PAK code.
Phillipines then put me on hold.
Glasgow: I was told something about this yesturday, let me get the FAQ. Reads through FAQ to me, yes Android Web'n'Walk Plus customers are also included, and it states that customers cannot end their contract due to changes.
Me: UK law says differently and in 2009 OFCOM also found against T-Mobile when they messed with the T&Cs. So I have to request my PAK code then.
Glasgow: I cannot give you the code without generating a charge, I will talk to my manager.
Few minutes later,
Glasgow: My manager has spoken to Technical and they state that Android WnW+ aren't included in the change after all.
Me: Could you (or her) send me an email stating that I can keep my 3gb limit?
He goes back to manager again for a few minutes,
Glasgow: My manager has been told that they cannot send out an email as legal are now looking into sending out some form of clarification about exactly what the changes are. He will call or email me today.
It looks like this change has been rushed through and no one has bothered to spell out clearly who is/isn't affected by it. I cannot faullt the guy at the Glasgow call centre, he was polite and helpful as much as he could be. It's just that the main company seemed to just not bother making it clear what's happening.
Just got off the phone after talking to a pot noodle miner who works for T-Mobile.
He assured me that the changes wouldn't affect my connection "you won't see any changes to be honest". When quizzed about the effect the download & streaming restrictions after 500MB would have on Spotify (p2p & streaming) and also on RDP, VNC and SSH he still insisted it wouldn't have any affect and that I should do that from home as 'that's what most people do anyway" and "people don't really watch videos or telly on their mobiles"
He also said that the plus bolt on would be restricted at 1GB and the standard internet bolt on @ 500MB though I'm not sure I believe him after some of the uninformed comments. As the notifications don't say anything like that.
http://support.t-mobile.co.uk/help-and-support/index?page=home&cat=DATA_CHANGES
http://support.t-mobile.co.uk/discussions/index?page=forums&topic=801038d04a790012d528dce9d0057cf
People DO watch videos on their mobiles, especially as the ads for the handsets are all about watching videos / Skypeing / other data-hungry apps.
Telling people that they should use SSH from home is deserving of a slap
Even with the plus bolt-on (at extra cost) you can burn through the cap in no time (and is a loss of 66% capacity instead of 83%, not worth it)
Aside: any company putting crap onto your credit record can be sued for defamation of character and libel. Non-payment additions are there for when there is non-payment, not for when a customer tells you to get stuffed.
I am pretty sure the law is roughly as follows. Any change to your contract which would cause material/financial detriment means you have the right to cancel your contract.
If you are barely using 100mb each month, this change is not going to have any affect on you. If on the other hand you frequently exceed 500mb a month then this is either going to cost you extra and hence cause you financial detriment.
Be weary though, if you cancel your direct debit T-Mobile can file a non payment which can be a pain to get off your credit report. Not the worst thing in the world - but something to consider.
"If you are barely using 100mb each month, this change is not going to have any affect on you."
Not any immediate affect, but it could be a detriment in the future, while still under the duration of the contract. A breach is a breach. I had the same type of fight with 3 over their European roaming. I hadn't used it yet, but I may in the future and the change was to my detriment.
I have had a couple of calls with "Lena" in the Philippines, apparently they are getting a LOT of calls due to these changes!
On my first call back (she needed clarification when I spelled out that I was affected to my detriment) I was told that I was affected and that as a goodwill gesture only they could add the mobile broadband upgrade to 3Gb (normally £12.77) for free until the end of the year.
After I rejected this a couple of times - I stated that I would be out of pocket in 12 months compared to when I took the contract out - she said that she would call me back again.
On my next callback she confirmed that as I am on an iPhone contract I would *not* be affected by the FUP change. I have asked for this in writing!
I had earlier pointed out that the website currently tells you something different to the SMS that was sent out, so I wonder if that was incorrectly sent out to people with iPhone / Android phones....
The T&Cs on T-M's site still state that if you have an Android phone on monthly contract you have the "Plus" data package as a matter of course and that it has a FUP of 3GB. Mind you, the same page also says the FUP for non-Android phones is 1GB.
T-M has really tied itself in a knot over this.
No matter how this pans out T-M last week thought Android phones needed three times the data cap that other handsets did, but now thinks they only need the same.
What's changed?
to richard.moat@t-mobile.co.uk
date Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 9:16 PM
subject The tale of T-mobile and the big nasty Oranges
Hello Richard,
You don't know me, but I am one of your customers, a new customer who signed up with you in April last year, woo-ed away from a 10 year tenure with O2 by promises of amazing new Android phones and 3GB monthly internet caps. Despite your garish pink and grey branding, I took the plunge, rendering myself unto you as a loyal faithful hound to its master, dutifully paying my £35+ a month in exchange for all the minutes and texts I could wish for, dancing along the mobile internet without a care in the world with all the gaiety of a high-speed HSDPA ballerina.
I thought, 'I'm happy here, this is exactly the mobile provider I've always wanted to have, one that lets me stream YouTube videos without throttling my connection, and lets me watch 'Have I Got News For You' catch up clips on my Flash-enabled Android phone on the train on my way home from work". And you encouraged me Richard, you said, 'buy this phone and contract, it has an always-on internet connection and full multimedia capabilities and our 3GB cap gives you all the freedom you could wish for'. And for a while we were so happy Richard, for ten months we've danced merrily hand-in-hand. Any dull moment, any time I felt low, like I wanted to give up, I reach into my pocket, take out my phone and you'd just....be there....
But then the Orange monster came along, scooped you up in its big Orange claw and DEMANDED that you end our relationship by making you slash all 3GB data caps for Android phones by a whopping 83%, just because it's a greedy Orange money-grabbing N*zi.
If there was some kind of notice, some kind of advance warning that the jackbooted Oranges were on the horizon, we could have carried on our dance Richard, parting amicably once the pre-stipulated contractually-obligated 18 months were up. But it was not too be; the Orange army came RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE of our relationship, demanding that from the start of February we had to keep our merriment under control, with any downloads or streaming strictly throttled once a paltry 500MB allowance was passed.
But I pleaded with them Richard, nay, I demanded that they see legal reason. I said to them, "I signed up to a full 18 months with a 3GB data cap on my Android phone, if you want to change that for new customers then fine, but at least do what O2 did in January 2010, and HONOUR my damn EXISTING CONTRACT".
But the mighty Orange decided he was above the law, had never heard of anti bait-and-switch legislation or the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulation 1999. He refused to acknowledge that my phone and indeed our whole relationship were marketed with a 3GB monthly cap, instead deciding to bring out a forth-coming PAID upgrade that would enable us to go beyond the 500MB (basically making me PAY more money for that which I am already contractually supposed to have for at least the next 8 months).
Only you are in the position to do something about this Richard; Ofcom have been notified but unless their inboxes are at critical mass I doubt they will make the effort. I beseech you Richard, stand up to the Oranges, bring our relationship back on track so we may explore this crazy world together without prejudice once again....at least for the length of our contract....
Yours in hope.....or until Ofcom kick your a*se,
X X X
I have an 18 month android contract for HTC Hero taken out back in march 2009 with the unlimited data
Sent them a message via website yesterday but could not answer when they called back so gave them a call on 150 just now. In their email yesterday they had said that they tried to send SMS on 1 Jan but it failed, hence not giving the proper 30 day notice. Why didn't they delay the implementation...
Anyway on my call just now to find out what is going on the guy gave me a load of bollocks (I was pushing the fact that I had never had notice of the change that is compliant with my contact, he had also been going on about it being a freebie and not part of the contract) but then he said 'actually you are not even affected'. He said something about how I have a a web and walk plus (or something like that) and this is not affected and will keep the current 3GB limit. I got him to repeat this a few times and he was very clear that it it is not changing for me
Don't know if this is policy, or because I knew my rights and threatened to cancel?
In a way it is a shame I was going to see if I could get a retention bonus of a HTC Desire, never mind guess I need to wait till the autumn for a nice dual core Android...
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