"...but federal authorities were eventually able to nail her." - Oh El Reg you spoil us.
A California mother of three was cuffed last Friday for allegedly having sex with a 13-year-old boy she met in an Xbox Live chat room. Rachel Ann Hicks. Pic: Orange County Sheriff's Dept Rachel Ann Hicks, 36, of Lake Forest, allegedly posed as a 23-year-old woman in order to chat up the Maryland teen online, and the …
I can just imagine how traumatised the 13 year old boy must have been when he was offered sex by an older woman - what a nightmare for any pubescent male teen..
13 year old boys all over the world will be rushing to the shops with their pocket money as we speak!
the poor poor boy, he must be sitting there all traumatised now due to the interference of The State. I'm pretty sure he isn't the one complaining about having popped his cherry at 13 to an experienced older woman, so why would he be a victim?
It isn't like she anally raped him with an apple corer is it. Is it?
...it is physically impossible for a woman to rape a man (or boy) if you're talking about 'bog-standard' sex, you need to use different terminology.
Naturally it can cause emotional problems down the line, but when I was his age had the opportunity presented itself then I can't imagine I would have said no. These days it's much easier to see what it's all about due to the profusion of internet porn, but in my day the best you'd have seen was rather tame photos in a magazine that was far less clear than the modern equivalent.
Because it is pretty difficult for a woman to have sex with an unwilling male. Sex is seen very much as something a man does to a woman.
If I get unwanted attention from a woman I don't fancy, it is mildly annoying. Unwanted attention from a man (I'm not into them at all) worries me a lot more, because there is the possibility of something happening that I don't want to happen. Similarly women are a lot more scared of unwanted attention from men they don't fancy.
Never understood why the double standard exists that a 13 year old boy wouldn't be traumatised by this experience. If the genders were reversed, there would be no question of whether an "alleged victim" existed.
It may sound Penthouse Forum to you, but carnal relations generally require a degree of emotional maturity. Chances are slim it wouldn't exist here. Even though the boy may also be thinking "wa-hay!" at the moment, you've no idea what damage has been done to this child - emphasis on child.
"I'm pretty sure he isn't the one complaining about having popped his cherry at 13 to an experienced older woman, so why would he be a victim?"
Turn it around and replace 'he' with 'she' and 'woman' with 'man' and you'll see what's wrong here.
You seem to assume that most males are always eager for sex while few females are - that may reflect your experiences but don't assume that it's universal.
Ok, ok, I'll admit to a teensy bit of trolling here.
I know it's as morally unsound to defrock a 13 year old boy as it is a 13 year old girl.
However, as much as you may not like it, it _IS_ seen differently for a boy of 13 to have sex with an older woman than if the genders were reversed. Everyone* thinks this way because it reflects perceived reality rather than some moralistic forced equality. If we were all truly equal, then I would have tits and a vagina and my wife would have a strapping 12" cock**. Obviously I don't have a vagina (the moobs are going..honest!) so therefore we are different and not the same, QED.
Emotionally girls are probably more able to handle a relationship at this age than boys, but the perceived reality is the reverse..go figure - I didn't make the world, I just shit in it.
*By Everyone I mean anyone who agrees with me of course
**This is clearly an absurd boast
***There is no Runcilbe spoon
I don't know that the word 'paedophile' is always used in cases where the genders are reversed. It's generally implicit in the reporting. It doesn't look to me like she's getting any sort of special treatment or easy ride (ahem) because she's a woman.
So it follows that I don't think there is an issue specifically on this level, and we can all safely skip that and get straight to the usual screaming about the other issues.
I feel sorry for the woman. sure she isn't a pervert or malicious or anything. just a bit dumb really....she looks so confused and sad in that photo, like she doesn't know what she's done wrong. plus, like many people have said - i'm sure the 13 year old buy in question was more than happy to go along with her suggestions (and probably made a few of his own). lot of fuss over nothing much imo.
Of course she looks sad and confused - she's been nicked for doing something illegal and immoral and is feeling all sorry for herself. I'm 36. If I posed as 23 with the intention of doing the same thing with a 13 year old girl - even with her explicit consent, and don't think that doesn't happen - I'd be rightly condemed by society and the state.
What's the difference, genius?
This was premeditated grooming of a minor. It's illegal everywhere. It's understood to be outside the boundaries of decency - everywhere. Glad you used IMO in your post. For future reference. Keep the O to yourself.
You said, "It's illegal everywhere." Clearly referring to the act of an older woman having sex with a 13 year old. To be strictly true, it isn't legal everywhere. For example the age of consent in Spain is 13 years old. In some parts of Mexico the age of consent is 12. In Japan, the federal age of consent is 13; but most prefectures have local laws that change this.
Of course, in this case, even in Spain the woman would be committing an offence by the use of deception.
Would you still feel the same if it was a 46 year old confused male who was the perpetrator?
>like she doesn't know what she's done wrong
She's a mother of three, are you also suggesting that she told her own children that it's alright for them to have sex at 13 with someone who's 46?
The biggest d*cks are the people saying anything remotely close to "hey I think he probably enjoyed it!" Or, "No big deal, he lost it to an older woman!"
Just speaks to where this world is going as a whole.
....just wait til 18, please. Or, better yet, a meaningful relationship.
.."statutory rape". The idea being that a 13 year old boy is legally incapable of giving informed consent, so in the law's eyes it's still non-consensual.
Nobody is confusing the issue - in fact the argument exists that as the child grows older and develops maturity, they grow to realise that it was in fact non-consensual and the trauma gradually grows.
@Those above regarding any hole being a goal etc.:
I actually think that's part of he reason that sexual relations with "a minor" is illegal in most societies -- while hormones may allow it sometimes emotions and intellect are not ready. The boy may not be traumatised but perhaps she persuaded him not to use a condom, or did "use an apple corer" -- at his age he may be more easily manipulated. Perhaps he even did regret it afterwards, and he will now not be able to wear a funny bracelet and say he's saving himself for marriage if he wants to.
Then there's her motivation -- she's not ugly, and most single guys in their late teens and early twenties are still of the "any hole's a goal" mindset so why didn't she try for someone at a bar of even college campus (assuming consent in that state is 18 etc.)? Sounds like she's a manipulator and likes to take advantage of children -- which isn't a particularly innocent motivation.
@maclovinz: Why? So the first time with the one you love can be even more awkward and be over quicker (sorry, I'm at least half-joking)?
I can understand why blokes might find younger women attractive - generally they have perfect skin and perky bits, and they're also generally pleasant to be around. The age of consent is very much a social construct, not an absolute, if you look at what happened historically in Europe and still happens in various places around the world. Although 13 is still on the young side.
But I'm not sure what older women see in younger blokes. Younger blokes generally aren't that attractive, what with spots and all, they're generally not that great when it comes to personality and self-expression, and performance-wise they're likely not much cop either.
It's not just that it's wrong - it's also why would she even want to? Colour me confused.
I shan't 'colour you' anything (how would one go about that? I've always wondered. Actually don't answer that). Attraction is mysterious and often inexplicable. It's not a rational process and looks are generally only a tiny part of it, and... do I really have to explain this? Not to justify her actions at all, obviously - she would appear to have serious problems. We're not exactly talking about a normal healthy functioning adult anyway.
"If this took place in Spain."
I'd be *very* careful on that assumption.
I remember reading something similar about the Netherlands (the European country which has the lowest rate of teenage pregnancy in Europe IIRC, unlike the UK, which has one of the highest).
It applied to 12 year olds having sex with *other* 12 year olds, *not* adults. 11 won't get you 99 (as some wag quipped) but you'll likely see the inside of a Dutch prison for quite a while. The Netherlands inmate population might be more forgiving than there UK counterpart, but I wouldn't like to test that theory.
This (2 children going beyond the "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" stage) seems to me a *much* more plausible situation that arises farily often IRL. There is "consent" and (in *principle*) both participants have equal levels of maturity. While certainly of concern (well it should be of *some* concern to parents who give a dam about their children s development) they don't seem to think it should be treated as a criminal offense.
A very adult attitude toward managing emerging sexuality.*
*IANAL and I happened to recall the information on the Netherlands. It's not a subject I make a study of.
Bear in mind that in a good few states in the US, it's not technically illegal to have intercourse with animals, or even marry them.
However, it's still something that isn't exactly acceptable in modern society.
It's not the legality of it so much that's the issue, it's the morality of it. Which as has been stated, is a construct of modern society (which I can see the other argument of - puberty is the bodies way of saying "wahey, it's time to make babies" etc, see the debate around hebephelia, and so on) which 99.999% of people in modern society tend to adhere to, so to be outside of that 99.999% is what gets the attention, and generally, is why most modern societies are pretty strict about having laws surrounding this, and upholding said part of that law.
TBH, if that was my little brother, I'd have punched that bitch out. He'd have hated me for it, mind....
Anon, because I have a reputation to think of....
I can't say I usually read much of the advertising, but the Google ads with this article caught my eye:
Want a Girlfriend? www.Zoosk.com. Meet a Real Girl For Free on Zoosk Fastest Growing Site. Join Now
Pre Employment Screening? www.Agenda-Security.co.uk. Ensure You Hire The Right Candidate BS7858, ISO27001 Accredited
Employment Screening www.XactCheck.com. International Background Checks No hidden fees or minimum orders
Yes, you're right, and it would appear that morality is relative, not absolute. Makes it odd that it is abitrarily tied to national boundaries, doesn't it?
If we're going to accept that a metre either side of a boundary changes what is morally correct, then its not a huge leap to question why, at the stroke of midnight on their 18th birthday, becomes legally allowed to do things that 5 seconds ago they were not. If we accept that as being fair, then perhaps we should be ensuring that our legislation only accepts them as 'of the age of legal consent' at the point *precisely* 18 years after they were born.
And what if we don't base our ruling on geographic or age boundaries? Where then do we turn for our moral compass? Religion? Majority Approval? Scientific Evaluation?
Who makes these laws, and why are they are moral guardians? Should they be beyond question, as they appear to be?
Morality; not as easy as it appears, I suspect.
But this isn't a case of a couple of 13 years olds deciding they're "in love" and having sex -- it's a case of a controlling, predatory individual taking advantage of children because either she can't get a man interested or she prefers to take advantage of children, either due to being a borderline paedophile or due to being an overly controlling person.
Anyone who has got to the age of 36 should realise that in having sex with a minor they are abusing them -- if not by directly traumatising them then just by getting them embroiled in this kind of thing. If you want to have sex then choose a partner above the age of consent or, if you love them, wait for them to reach it -- it really is that easy.
Although, it must have been at least partially monitored -- perhaps checked every month or so for this to go one as long as it seems to have -- otherwise the parents would not have seen the text messages.
None the less, a 13 year-old with a cell phone? Will not happen in my house, I care not what is said about "oh, that's just how things are," and so on. Things are only that way because parents allow it to be. Start saying "no" and watch how things change.
Sometimes I think children of "geeky" parents have the potential to run into all sorts of problems with unfiltered living. For instance, to extend my comment above, the Internet in my house is proxied and monitored, and until my child is 16 or can show reasonable responsibility, the only phone will be a land-line to his room with a ring/in-use indicator in mine. I can only assume, based upon stories related unto me, that this would be similar to having a cop as a parent.
Sure, kids can be deceptive and devious, which only incurs further restrictions. I was a cheeky git in my time, and now I am geeky. Geeky and Cheeky will always be at war but, as my father once told me, "Youth and enthusiasm is no match for age and treachery."
I do not address the XBox Live aspect as it is not one with which I have to deal at the moment. Even so, I would expect that Live would have some kind of parental control or filtering. If not, then usage must be supervised, no?
Paris, should have said "no."
Sure you lock your internet down, mine is locked down too. All my guns are also locked in a safe (I live in Arizona USA need I say more?) but like unlocked loaded guns easily stored under a bed how many people your kids visit have their computers locked down? I know the house next door to mine has no parental controls on their computer because my 8 year old came home begging for me to allow access to YouTube on her computer because the neighbor kids have it. For all I know they also have loaded guns lying around the house. There's only so much you can do and it starts with educating and trusting your children not simply prohibition.
When I used to play World of Warcraft I couldn't believe how many relatively young kids were on the game unsupervised. When I was a kid, our computer was in my parent's bedroom so they could properly supervise us. If I have kids any computer they use won't be in their bedroom, but will be in a place where they can be properly supervised.
When I see an incident like this I feel outrage about the person committing the crime, but am also deeply worried about the parenting of the child in question. A friend of mine recently nipped a potential grooming situation in the bud because the child's parents were more closely monitoring what their children were doing.
I'll finish up with a quote from Eminem:
"When a dude's gettin bullied and shoots up his school
And they blame it on Marilyn (on Marilyn).. and the heroin
Where were the parents at? And look where it's at
Middle America, now it's a tragedy
Now it's so sad to see, an upper class ci-ty
Havin this happenin (this happenin).."
One thing that has escaped attention so far is the fact that the alleged perpetrator allegedly drove from Florida to Maryland during Thanksgiving to allegedly commit the alleged crime. This is no short distance. Even if it was extreme northern Florida, it is more than a full day's drive each way (about 1000-1200 miles or so). And during Thanksgiving, which is the heaviest travel period of the year, the traffic would have been horrendous.
If it was her intent to seduce some kid, surely she could have found one closer? I mean if she's going to fly across the country, why not fly to Maryland instead of flying to Florida and then driving 1000 miles. The flight times are about the same.
What the human race fails to realize is the laws of nature. As soon as boys n girls hit puberty they are ready to have sex. We feel that they are not mature enough to, but if you believe in God and God designed humans to hit puberty at 13 etc then God intended us to start having sex at that age. If you look at any other animal species as soon as any female starts to bleed the biggest and baddest male goes to town on her. Human's it isn't any different but we hide behind these supposed morales. I think this lady should be released. We have no room in jail for her, honestly it should be up to the "alleged victim" if he was raped or not. After all if he really didn't want to he probably would have told his parents the next day. As for reversing the roles placing a 36 year old male in her shoes and a 13 year old girl in his shoes, all I have to say is those are not the circumstances. if I had Xbox Live when I was 13 and I met some girl regardless of 23 or 36 i'd def be down. I highly doubt that 13 year old girls go looking for men on XBL so the roles can't be reversed to begin with. A 13 year old girl wouldn't give a 36 year old man her phone number, or address. And even if she did all she would have to do is scream if she didn't want to have sex with the man and her parents would bust in with shotguns and Ninja Swords. You can't stop kids from having sex. If you really dont want them to be screwing other 13 year olds (or even 36 year olds) you should talk with them. They're going to do it anyways so at least tell 'em to be safe about it (Like not do it with people from Xbox Live who live in other states) I just hope for both their sakes they used a condom. People have their desires. Some women want to be with younger guys, we all know it. And a lot of the younger guys would love the opportunity of being with the older women. But once your morales get in the way of the laws of nature it becomes wrong. What about killing? Killing is morally wrong and yet we do it everyday. You see "potential" damage done to this kid, I see a lesson. Everyone learns their lessons. He learned his the hard way and it'll probably be one of the lessons he enjoyed learning in life. Now he can sleep through the Sex Ed class cause he knows how it all works. Well at least half of it.
Ok so now let the flame war against me begin
To remember when I was 13, heck if only I had a chance to get with my Italian teacher who really was 22 I would have done.
Not withstanding that, even then at that age I knew it was illegal but hey I still would have :-)
Depending on the boy involved and assuming he wanted to (even though legally he is not deemed fit to make that decision) I think he is more damaged now by the aftermath and the suggestion he has done something wrong. But nobody knows for certain as that side of the story isn't really reported.
Adults (of either gender) having a relationship with a minor (as defined in their jurisdiction), of *either* gender, which leads to sex is a *crime* usually called statutory rape, and the children *are* being molested.
Gender of both parties is *irrelevant*.
BTW the pictures will likely count as mfg, storage and distribution of CP.